This is [Not] a Bad Telltale Game
Just hear me out - Game of Thrones is a bad Telltale game, but not a terrible product overall. For all the hate this episodic game series has received since the release of the poorly handled Episode 5 let me just say - yes, this game is 'bad' and its latest episode dragged down its overall quality but I think in the end this will be remembered as one of Telltale's mixed successes - yes, it is undoubtedly inferior to TWD S1, TWAU and TFTB but as a game series itself independent of being judged by the 'Telltale standard' , it is still an enjoyable experience that sadly falls short in critical areas that prevent it from becoming one of the 'great works' crafted by the Telltale Formula.
I think what happened after Episode 5 was that fans rubbed their heads and wondered: ''What happened to you Telltale? You used to be cool.''
Indeed, Telltale made their mark in the video gaming industry when they showed that games could be enjoyed based solely on characters and storylines - a departure from the tradition of games being a linear roller coast where players were simply along for the ride - Telltale games showed us that players could quite literally get involved in the game and influence how it turns out, their choices tailoring their own unique experiences different from other players playing the game same - Telltale is the godfather of episodic gaming, they made it mainstream by showing off the powerful potential it possessed. The games were innovative in their initial phase because never before had we played games about being people and making our own story based on our own individual choices that allowed to us feel we were emotionally invested in the world they created.
TWD, TWAU and TFTB are Telltale's best work so far - they have memorable side characters, all too human protagonists with their own faults and imperfections that make us empathize them with, while the endings are mostly in the same place in all routes taken, Telltale truly mastered the art of making the journey count.
In TWD Lee dies no matter what but his death marks a powerful conclusion to an amazing episodic game series where we struggled with making gut-wrenching moral choices in a bleak world with no law and order. Our protagonist isn't your benevolent hero material - he's a real human being whose made some very serious mistakes in his life (he hurt his wife and murdered the senator she had an affair with) and he struggles to find a balance between his humanity and the necessities of living in an apocalypse - the theme of redemption was handled subtly as its up to the players as to what kind of person he becomes as he tries to survive and protect the innocence of Clementine in a cruel and unjust world. Truly this was Telltale's Magnum Opus that even academics of philosophy recommend to their students to gain an insight of ethics and morality.
Obviously because this game was so good, while its sequel is by all means a good game it could never reach the same height of its predecessor.
In the Wolf Among Us we know Snow White isn't truly dead, we know Toad will end up the Farm (and later die), we know Beauty and Beast's marriage will survive, and we know no matter how Bgby acts he and Snow are destined to become a couple, because the game is ultimately a prequel to its comic book source material. Yet remarkably Telltale makes us truly care for what happens to characters like Faith and Nerissa, it presents us with moral difficulties as we try to decide if Bigby has truly moved on from being the Big Bad Wolf, we see Snow's early days in office and we see the corruption and social inequality within Fabeltown - indeed the game is almost an allegory of sorts to real life urban issues.
Still waiting for a Wolf Among Us Season 2, any decade now...
We all know Tales is an amazing game but because its yet to conclude I'll refrain from commenting how well it handles its source material.
So the game studio that made all these amazing titles suddenly gives us their take on Game of Thrones - expectations were high, after all this is Telltale we're talking about, no one can weave together compelling characters and amazing storylines like Telltale. And to be honest, the very first episode, Iron from Ice did indeed live up to my expectations.
Ethan dies no matter what - but we get a sense that this Eddard Stark style surprise death will set off a chain of events to form an unforgettable and epic vast and expansive storyline (just as Eddard's death in the show triggered the War of the Five Kings). Before Ethan dies we get to play as him and choose what kind of Lord or Ironrath he can become - and there are so many divergences such as your treatment of Erik, your choosing on Sentinel, and your initial meeting with Ramsay Snow.
In the end he can be remembered as either Ethan the Brave, Ethan the Wise or Ethan the Bold - in his brief time as Lord we the players have established a divergent legacy that we expect will carry over to the subsequent episodes and it is here where Telltale does a mediocre job. Sure Erik can get a determinant cameo if you send him to the Wall but Telltale should have given him three different possible cameos based on Ethan's choice - Gared can interact with him briefly if Ethan chooses to make him swear the Black, but we never see or hear from Erik again if we choose to spare him or cut off his fingers - storywise this really makes sentencing him to the wall as the only logical choice, since otherwise he completely disappears from the story. Telltale should have developed consequences for all three decisions - if you spare him he declares he will never forget his debt to House Forrester and then he's gone, forever. If you cut off his fingers, Talia is horrified and you make Erik cry but after that you never see him again.
Of course Ethan's most critical decision was his choosing on Sentinel, and obviously Telltale did try to do a good job at it even if the end result of his determinant choice carrying over a major divergence in Episode 5 doesn't make all that much sense in terms of character when you actually think about it seriously. Okay, its not that Telltale was being lazy like they wort of were toward the end of TWD S2 - I think they were genuinely trying to make Ethan's choices matter as much as possible from the brief time we played as him so that his death was not pointless shock style to imitate the show but had a meaningful impact on the story overall - they tried and they failed.
Iron from Ice is the best episode in Telltale's GoT because of the potential it showed to come in subsequent episodes. But next four episodes have not lived up to what Iron from Ice had promised. Sure we're used to Telltale games ending the same way no matter what but making the journey getting there count, but GoT really made most choices feel void of any life - Margery is going to hate on Mira no matter what, Sera is going to help Mira get to the coronation feat no matter how you treat her, it doesn't matter if you secure a Glenmore marriage as it has no divergent affect on the next episode (come on Telltale, in Tales the choice of whether to trust Jack or Fiona actually made the next episode have two completely different openings based on player choice, here the story will force a Glenmore alliance the exact same way no matter if you've secured Elena's betrothal or not), no matter your choices Gared is forced to fight and kill the man who murdered his family and subsequently you're punished for it the exact same way no matter how you tried to deal with the situation because the game needs to force you over to the next segment in the storyline regarding Gared's journey up north.
However despite the game's overwhelming linearity that seems unorthodox for a Telltale game, the story itself is moderately well written for the source material they had access to and the characters are very memorable and fleshed out and so indeed feel like a legitimate part of GRRM's World of Ice and Fire.
The main problem with this game isn't the lazy writing - it's the IP we're dealing with.
Whatever the North Grove is we know its not really that important at all, Ramsay's plot armor is impenetrable and this frustrates us because of his sadistic personality, the purpose of Mira's final meeting with Tyrion just felt like a pointless add-on in the background story of Tyrion's trial though in its defence we all wanted to interact with Dinklage's character one last time and Telltale allowed us that. The story of House Forrester is a side story completely irrelevant to Cersei's scheming in Kings Landing or Jon Snow's mysterious destiny linked with the fate of Westeros, or Bran meeting the ancient Bloodraven to master his Warg powers or Arya attempting to become a Faceless assassin in the House of the Undying or Dany's quest to reclaim her ancestral throne. House Forrester is just another minor third tier house in the North and Telltale has tried their best to make the Forresters the most important minor noble house in Westeros.
With what little of the source material they were allowed complete control over, it was Ironwood that they had the most freedom with, a common natural resource in the North. Their story is small compared to the larger stakes portrayed in the show - ultimately the story of House Forrester is about a small noble family and their livelihood with Ironwood and the consequences related to it imposed on their lives after the conclusion of Robb Stark's rebellion.
Still for a side-story about a minor house of Westeros this plotline is as good as it can be - the problem with this game in particular is how insignificant the Forresters are to the main story to which they are bound to by canon and no matter player choices just too many events are inevitable for their storyline which takes place in between Seasons 3 and 5. For what Telltale had to work with within this confined space they did a good job but it falls short on the standard we came to expect of them.
GoT is not a bad game by general gaming standards, we still have awesome characters and the storyline is... okay. What I think many could be upset about was that our standard was at TWD and TWAU level and GoT was below that level. That doesn't make it a bad game on its own, but as part of Telltale's works. in that regard it is a 'bad game' because its not brilliant or outstanding like Telltale's previous works, its just an okay game. And most wanted another amazing and excellent work to be delivered by Telltale but Game of Thrones can be graded a B- at best.
This is a bad Telltale Game because Telltale Games are supposed to me more than just 'okay' their supposed to be mind-blowing and exceptionally well written, worth at least an A- if not more but GoT has been unable to reach that level. But this is still a good game on its own if its not compared to Telltale's previous works - and while its a 'bad' Telltale Game, I think ultimately its reception will endure a more mixed legacy rather than an outright negative one. It may be falling short on Telltale's past standards and there is significant room for improvement but I don't think this game or its writers deserve to be trolled about how unbelievably bad it is - sure its 'bad' for a Telltale game but is it still worth playing? Yes it is.
Comments
Butt I love this game
it's my favourite.
Sorry but the following 4 episodes weren't a letdown for me... Maybe the problem is that YOU created too high expectations.
SIGH
If you would like to make a complaint post here
In before "EMERGHAD ANOTHER HATE THREAD" tehehe.
Well laid out thread to be honest, but it could've gone in the criticism thread.
Hm? What is this? Just 1 thread? I am dissapointed. No, seriously I think we have gained... an immunity to these types of threads. So, you are just wasting your time. Yeah, yeah so you feel like the game sucks, cool. Next topic please.
Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure...
I actually agree with this one, for the most part. For me GOT has definitely been the weakest in Telltale's recent catalog (and their older ones if I'm being honest). It's just been OK to me.
S T O P.
i think the first 4 episodes were great, episode 5 was super short but it was still good.
Never seen a thread like this before....
If the mods want all criticism to be posted in the criticism thread, I suggest they sticky it or put it in the forum rules. Its not even on the first page right now, so I don't think your condescension is warranted.
HOLY FUCK YOU THINK IM GONNA READ THAT?
Tbh I feel the same: GoT is not bad, it's OK and even has some brilliant moments (such as the whole Ep. 4, imo). But it is kinda disappointing because many people have come to expect better games from Telltale.
I really really really liked TWD S1, it made me feel really melancholic through the whole season and it made me tear up at the end when main character dies.
Shit was so touching. It was my first TellTale game and it was something really unique back then.
But now they're kind of force feeding everyone with the same thing. First everything is all peace and quiet and the next is a shocking scene.
I also tried TWAU up until episode 4 but it was more of a visual novel than a game and it was way too linear. But the story was really unique and interesting.
As for TTGoT I think that it was an okay game the first time I played through it and it succeeded its goal into making me want to watch the series.
So it's pretty much TWD S1 > TTGoT > TWAU for me.
I'm willing to bet no one read what I said so I'll just condense it into a much shorter version:
I'm not saying its a bad game, no its enjoyable but it has enough flaws that it doesn't (at least so far) live up to the same levels of TWAU, TWD and Tales - I'm not saying this game deserves all that hate its been getting since Episode 5 but I think its defenders should recognize that its not one of Telltale's best works even if the game is still 'good' by general standards, its pretty meh compared to Telltale's other work and in that regard GoT is a 'bad' Telltale game but still a pretty okay game - what I was trying to put forward wasn't that this is one of the worst games of 2014-2015 but instead that I anticipate this to be one of Telltale's works to receive a mixed reception overall and its only 'bad' because its not brilliant - contrary to what the anti-critics here may think, I'm not a proponent of this game being just plain bad and only getting worse .
All I'm saying is that this game is a mixed bag, not a masterpiece like Telltale's other works, but certainly not a bad game either.
I just really hate that this game gets the same treatment as Season 2 of The Walking Dead because one episode wasn't as good as the others.
This thread isn't talking about episode 5, it's talking about the series as a whole.
I'd probably say you should modify the title a bit, maybe make sure people know it isn't just a critique of its 5th episode.
There is no way I am going to read all of this especially when I can get a sense what the op is about from the first paragraph.
I actually think this is one of the better ones. I definitely prefer it to Tales From The Borderlands.
Whether or not one considers Game of Thrones to be one of Telltale's best work is entirely based on opinion. Not something that should be recognized as fact.
I actually think Game of Thrones does a few things better than Tales, even. I've been back and forth on which game I like more, which is surprising as I usually prefer the stories with more imaginative concepts over the ones with general concepts (like how I prefer Wolf Among Us to Walking Dead).
Could you name a few things GOT does better than Tales if you don't mind?
I could. It doesn't toss cheap humor at you and has a deeper and more seriously toned story. Tales is a fun game to the right people I guess but GOT beats it in any kind of story form.
Even though - as with typical choice based Telltale games - choices are meant more for contextualizing your story as opposed to altering it on a grand scale, I still enjoy the story for what it is. Further reaching consequences would always be nice, of course - but even so I can still appreciate how Telltale translated the ruthless politicking of Game of Thrones into their style of game play. Despite the story not changing on a grand scale, role playing as the characters in such a dog-eat-dog universe is pretty fun for me. There were a few things that I'd have like to see more influenced by player choice (like not being forced to kill Britt at the wall), but that doesn't detract from my experience in Game of Thrones anymore than not being able to have an ending where certain characters have survived by the end of The Walking Dead.
To answer your question more specifically, I like the action scenes and the higher stakes of the choices in the heat of the moment.
Eh I think TFTB beats GOT in the story department. I haven't really been invested at all in GOT's story.
To each is own I suppose. I don't dislike Tales it just isn't my cup of tea and haven't really gotten into it until the 4th episode. I do like a lot of little things about it though
I hadn't read all of it when I posted that. I just assumed it was related to that.