Plot armour and metagaming
So something that has bothered me for a long time is this idea of plot armour.
There's this concept in D&D called metagaming - i.e. using information about the mechanics of the game to influence decisions your characters otherwise wouldn't make.
And perhaps this is the issue. I have and always will look at TTG as an incredible exercise in role playing. I like to play all their games as if I were in every scene, making every decision based on what I would do in that scenario. Then I can replay the game as other characters to see how they would react and what effect it has on the story.
This is why I tried to stab Ramsey. Because I wouldn't know he was immune to death in the context of this scene, and yeah, I would definitely try to kill that sociopath. And as a result, Ramsey respected me a little more and the experience felt rather fulfilling. Hey, at least I tried, right? Meanwhile, for all the complaints about Ramsey, we all know (or should know) what happens to Cersei and Margery down the line, but I don't hear anyone complaining about that... My point being, you can use outside knowledge to trivialize everything in this game. We all know the White Walkers are the real threat, not the Whitehills, but our characters are either ignorant of this or unaware of the real threat they pose.
My point is that I feel people who complain about plot armour are missing the point of this game. I get that other people don't necessarily take this view or play this game as an RP fun, but I think you are letting this outside knowledge ruin your enjoyment of the game. Sure outside knowledge can add a bit of context, but rarely is that the case. In general, it is better to enjoy this separately. Metagaming never adds to the experience, it can only take away from it. So perhaps it is best not to think about these things and try to put yourself more into the experience?
Immersion only happens if you let it. Yeah, some games are better at inducing the feeling than others, but in my experience, Telltale is masters of it. Life is Strange is a good example of bad immersion, as Max behaves like an idiot and you can't do things that I would do (i.e. CALL THE DAMN POLICE). Telltale is far from perfect but better than average IMO and all too often at least lets me try and do things my way, even if they occasionally have to push you down one path for the sake of the story (i.e. whether or not you let Malcolm go find Asher)
This is just some advice to my fellow gamers on how to get the most out of the experience. Or you know, a polite request to not make the same complaint over and over as I do think it is a bit of a fallacy.
Comments
"TellTale is far from perfect" Nah, those sonsofbitches are the best at what they do.
Yes thank you! I absolutely agree. To be honest when I'm playing the game I don't have the thought "I can't kill him" in the back of my mind in scenes where I'm dealing with Ramsay so I've never been bothered by his 'Plot Armor' as people like to call it.
Episode 5.
I have watched every season of the show over and over again, and yet while playing through the first time, I was persuaded to let him in the Great Hall as a show of good faith, one lord to another, despite my knowledge of exactly who and what Ramsay is - I wasn't consciously trying to ignore my outside knowledge, I was just immersed enough to play the game as its own story and have my characters act as if they weren't as omniscient as I am. I agree with this 100%.
Loved it!
Of course you did...
I love Telltale too, but nobody's perfekt!
you two are great! I am glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
I approve of everything you said... And I actually read it all
Eh, my playstyle in TellTale is always "I know I won't die until the end, so fuck it, I'm just going to take all the fun options", and thus I proceed to beat the shit out of people like Gryff. I prefer something like Until Dawn, where my fuckups can get everyone killed.
Thanks Chuck!
Until Dawn looks awesome. But I am lacking a PS4 and no way is that game worth 500$ (total cost of everything I'd need in my country before taxes just to play the damn thing)
Relevant username.
What can I say? Someone has to balance out all that negativity.
Im not a fanatic or anything, I just... well... crap, you got me.
But I meant what I said.
Well in someways it sort of freeing as compared to Mass Effect, Witcher, Deus EX, Dragon age where I was worried about my decisions and how they would affect the world down the road.Like agonizing 20-30 minutes should I save this guy or let him die. With Telltale games 'faux choice' and me knowing the world will move a certain way regardless of my choice(s) it allowed me to take a sort of screw the world approach and do what I really wanted anyways without worrying about the consequences.
I'm not going to lie as empty as the choices felt it - it kind of felt good to do what you really wanted instead of what you knew was the right thing for the character.
I'm with you there. I really wish it had a PC version, but if the PS4 gets enough good exclusives I'll probably buy one down the line. All my experience with Until Dawn comes from watching a few different playthroughs.
Until Dawn's release has actually made me decide to get a PS4 because there's always exclusives I want, Heavy Rain, Beyond two Souls, The Last of Us and now Until Dawn and soon to be Persona 5.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with bringing some positivism to the internet. Ever.
The only exception I can think of where I took myself right out of the character's mindset and my immersion in the game was when as Mira I had the option to take the seal and the key from Margaery's chambers. I remember clearly thinking "Mira shouldn't steal anything from her, but I am playing a video game and I know that when you find a key in a video game, you take it" and so I did.
Of course that key has yet to come into play, and while it probably will in episode six, if it doesn't, I know the majority of players will be super annoyed and WTFing all over the fourms - but I think I'd take it as a subtle wink from Telltale to avoid metagaming, and probably laugh and silently applaud them for it.
(after I got over my own slight annoyance, cause I've been carrying that key around for five episodes what does it do)
I actually felt that the choices in LiS had more direct impact and that you could actually miss some things in the game, after my first playthrough I discovered several things I did not see the first time around. Telltales recent games just don't have that kind of feeling anymore,you can maybe miss the herbs, buts that's about it. I have the feeling that that was different with the first season of the walking dead, where you could walk around in bigger hubs and interact with your environment, in all the recent games the hubs are getting smaller and smaller with less interactivity and the stories feel more railroaded. That's just my personal opinion though I knew something changed from twd season 1 till now but could not point the finger on the what, playing LiS made me realize those bigger hub worlds I missed.
That being said I very much enjoy TTG and they do many things better than LIs , the audio for example is abysmal, that alone was nearly enough to stop me playing, but in general it just gave me that TWD feeling back. In my opinion this creates a much bigger immersion, because it encourages you to actually search your surroundings and discover new options/items that not only tell you something but you can actually use for something. The example you gave with the police is a no-brainer for me and I would wondered myself why they didn't do that, but alas a game will have restrictions and game designers don't really think of everything. That actually hit the immersion really hard in episode 5 of GOT when I Ramsay talked about the Forresters keeping half of the Ironwood, when I heard that I smiled and thought to myself , now he will hear what Ludd did and this thing might me over quickly, but no such option appeared, TTG teased us with that sentences and we could not say the only thing we wanted? There are restrictions on how many choices you can have, but why bring it up if you can't defend yourself?
Well that took longer than expected, I wanted to say something about the metagaming too. I get your points and I fully agree, letting outside information rule your choices is not the point of the game and it really helps to just think as your character. Its just more fun if you can fully immerse yourself into the role of for example Rodrik and do what he would do in certain situations. I think the problem most people had was the choice to kill Ramsay, even though you knew he could not die and that info is very hard to ignore. On every other choice there was still hope to , not kill but at least hinder, Ramsay somehow without conflicting with the canon, but that choice was obvious from the start and even though I tried to ignore my knowledge of the books the outcome is pretty clear.
I completely agree with you, I really liked Episode 5 as well! Sure, it wasn't perfect, but I personally don't think it deserves all the hate it gets.
1000℅ agree
TL;DR
Well, that's your choice. It's a public forum, people are free to read it or not.
But it is amusing you are saying this on a forum about Game of Thrones...
LiS is okay but I am constantly screaming in my head at Max's overwhelmingly insane trains of thought and decision making. They do a great job with some choices but after episode 4... I will never understand her not going to state officials or the FBI. I just can't do it. Even at the height of my teenage angst I would never be that... dumb. So it's hard to get in the game and not play it with a big smirk the entire time. Especially episode 4. That game has some great points for it too, but something about it bugs me more than TTG's at their worst.
I do get it though. This isn't D&D, and it is a lot harder to ignore something as pressing as Ramsey's status in here. But, like I said though in my OP, it's hard to agree with this when the same could be said about every other character that you see in the show. I don't get why Ramsey is different than Marg, Dany, Cersei, Tyrion, or Jon. Now the people who don't like that many cameos for that reason, because ALL of these characters have their fates sealed within the context of the game, well, that is a bit of a problem. But... I don't know. I play the Ramsey scenes and all the others with a focus on the threat to OUR characters. Anything can happen to the Forresters. That's what works in this game. To me, at least.
But your points are perfectly reasonable and I thank you for putting so much thought into your reply.
Life is Strange is a good game. I love the environment, atmosphere and exploring the world.
That said, I find myself missing the better dialogue option from Telltale Games.
I agree with the diaolge choices in Lis, TTG is lightyears ahead in that regard and I like TTG more in general, only the choice/result dynamic was better done in Lis.
I think the problem with Ramsay is that the game presents you with the decision to kill him and you know that you can't do that, the other characters are there but you are offered no option that would directly contradict with the canon. I don't really have a problem with that, I knew it would not work but that did not stop Rodrik to try, the results were pleasant enough, so it really is the best to just ignore your background information and go with the flow of the game.
I could not agree more, the dialoge is what almost made me abandon the game mid 1 episode.