The lake scene in season 2
As I look back, I'm thinking.. That lake scene where Luke died, that would've been a great way to kill both Carlos & Sarah.
Basically, swap Luke with Carlos and Bonnie with Sarah. And tweak the dialogue to fit the narrative.
Because with both of them dying, that makes more realistic than Bonnie managing to pull herself up, or Jane being able to pull
Clementine out of the ice without falling herself.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
Uh no, both dying just, no
I always thought Sarah's death was fine and one moment I was glad choice didn't matter. Carlos had to die for that to happen
I still firmly believe that Carlos or Sarah should've survived, and one of them die.
Yeah, well I'm sure that writer team thought whole heartedly that the route they chose was the best and most rational even if in hindsight it is probably not. They likely only have a handful of folks working on the scripts within a deadline and it isn't as though they took a poll on every potential customer of the game before release and asked all which choice, death, or scene would be the most effective to the majority audience for every decision they made for the game. As always it's ultimately a surprise gamble for the creators and consumers. Or maybe they weren't trying much and only wanted to ride off the success of the first game for the profits. Movie sequels do it so I doubt I'd put that pass them too. They probably didn't expect the first game to be as big a hit as it was. and maybe had over expectations for the second game to be the same when it doesn't compare much to its predecessor.
When they were making season one, they weren't focusing on multiple games like they were with season two. They spent more time and effort in season one then season two, naturally something with more time and effort spent is going to be better.
Also, season one was so well praised, that it would've been hard for any game to top the reception season one got. I think had they done what they did with s1 and spent more time and focused solely on s2, it would've been way better but when they have multiple games going at once, it will always lack.
Season 2 just seemed very rushed.
Hmmm I actually sort of agree with this idea.. I may use it sometime..
Minecraft is rushed.
Episodes 3 and 4 feel a bit rushed to me, but 1, 2 and 5 feel like effort was put into them
I know episode 5 gets flak in the writing department, but on the technical side of things, episode 5 seems a lot more polished than episodes 3 or 4 were. More unique soundtracks, better use of FX (things like seeing peoples' breath when they talk, snow, etc) better use of the more cinematic effects like blur, better cinematography and direction, and so forth
Even I can admit that. The visuals looked impressive in the finale when it came to the snowstorm and the things you mentioned, to even the music. I mean I hate the Kenny vs Jane situation, but the music that plays during that sequence is pretty damn dramatic and I can't deny that I have had a listen to that track more than once and a few others from the episode.
Unfortunately if there is anything I've learned from playing Final Fantasy XIII, visuals and music alone don't make a game. Even Life is Strange I didn't enjoy the finale of despite being drawn by the story up until then [and if you're wondering, it was the long stretched out trippy dream sequence that killed it]. Telltale's games have become more focused on story with less gameplay elements, so if the story doesn't hold out or isn't at least above average within every episode, especially the finale where everything concludes, they haven't got much to fall back on. They've got to be careful about that. They can't effort to neglect their stories or rush them.
I'd gladly be happier with a game with a well written story, without any music or fancy cinematography, than it be the other way around.
Exactly what Lilac said. I myself love all the music and character designs. The effects while playing 205 was just great, the blood effects and textures on the characters are spot on. The lake scene looked great too, despite its weird writing flaws. Only thing that was lacking was the story... Which is sad because its a Telltale game. The story should be even better than anything else presented in the episode, and little details like shooting Carver and then he uses the same arm he got shot with to shoot Alvin in 202 should be fixed. Pretty much season 2 goes 10/10 art and effects 2/10 story for me.
It's funny, but when I was watching a playthrough of some TWDG Season 1 episode for the very first time before I got it, I was thinking 'god, these graphics aren't that great, but damn I'm loving this story!' especially so when it got to Kenny losing his family and the raw emotions in that, all from a game that looked cartoony. I remember when Season 2 came out, first episode, just being amazed by the camera work, the music, mirrors having a reflection, to the lighting of the candles, to pine trees and wilderness, I loved it [well, back when pines didn't feel overused, but still loved it back then.]
The story was the big selling point of Season 1, that the game could've had Playstation 1 looking graphics, and it still would've succeeded in telling a great story. Season 2, it could've had Until Dawn note worthy graphics and I still wouldn't have been convinced that the storyline was strong. There was a lot of potential there, a great deal of it to be something as successful as Season 1, if close to it, if even greater. I honestly do remember thinking that after finishing Episode 2, that if things kept going like they were, it had a chance to top Season 1. That's how much I really believed in the game at that time.
I'm glad they took much better care with Tales.
Bonnie should have died with Luke when you cover Luke. They both fell in at the same time too.
Indeed, however I really liked the art style of the game and I still do. I remember opening up steam one day, only to find a big "Telltale's The Walking Dead" I like freaked out and was like "holy&$@^^&;$@*" I need this! Then after episode 1, I was pretty satisfied with the time length.... then I realized that I had to wait for every episode.( The Walking Dead Game was the first Telltale game I had gotten while it was still being made). I waited for episode 2 though, and wasn't disappointed. Now, Looking back, the only thing that disappoints me in Ep2 is the fact that Mark is killed in the same episode he is introduced. But that's pretty much it.
The story for season 1 was just so awesome, it made the hype for S2 even more awesome. We know how that turned out though. Also I think I find myself in the minority though, people say 201 and 202 were good in terms of story, I seem to still disagree. Mostly just about certain parts, well, there are parts in all the episodes I like, but they were just executed badly IMO. Like Pete saying (Nick) "Can't shoot for shit" yet that is only demonstrated if Clem chooses to go with Nick in 201, and is totally contradicted when he shoots Matthew in the next episode. There's a few more, like where the hell did Luke go, but I'd rather not just reply with me giving reasons to why you shouldn't like 201/202 because of what I said.
Tales definitely shows that the writers from Season 2 were not all that bad. It might be possible that they didn't have much enthusiasm for Season 2 as they did Tales, that, or time constraints ruined it all.
I preferred Sarah's breakdown in Ep4. It was one of the few thought provoking decisions in the season. As for Carlos, his death was poor, but realistic. Carver's people were firing their guns off all over the place, someone had to get hit
Personally I'd have them both live, but if they were both to be killed off by the end of the season, this definitely is the way to do it.
Look at it this way, Carlos, the protective father, really isn't going to just keep moving forward while his daughter is trapped on ice. I'm pretty sure Carlos would die a million times for his daughter and wouldn't think twice about trying to get her off the ice which eventually break and pulls both of them in.
So at least they'd die together rather than some cheap death at Carver's and being left behind in a trailer park.
And goddamn it, I want my Luke back.
I can agree as I have also said that many times as well long ago. They were likely more after quantity of money, than quality of good game and plot. By releasing multiple games almost simultaneously. Wish they had never shortened the episodes and developed the characters which would take more time to do and you cannot really do that with brief 80 minute episodes. Entire Cabin group was a total waste and they are all extinct by the finale only thing that sort of is left behind from that group is Rebecca's newborn.
I think it was more that they were just very rushed, and Telltale has learned from 80-90 min episodes, don't really see those now I think?...
Your irrelevancy is rushed.
Damn. I never thought I could be burnt so bad by a piece of wood.(I'm sorry I and to)
...Did you just call me a piece of wood?
Lol wut
Do you remember that scrapped concept of Carlos dying on Sarah's birthday from a tiger at a zoo the group was going to explore? That might've been an interesting idea if it'd been him dying while protecting her from it, just without the birthday thing involved. It's just too much of a cliche, having bad stuff happen to someone on their birthday.
Nick and Sarah's second deaths were weak, but that lake really took the cake so bad I'd honestly welcome a Kenny stunt just to excuse it. At least it wasn't too bad in the Games of Thrones finale, the group's ice crossing there was passable given they had a hungry polar bear on their tail, and not an imprisoned Harry Potter going through puberty persuading them to cross instead. God bless that polar bear.
To be honest the only death I hated in Season 2 was Sarah's second death, don't get me wrong, I disliked how some of the other characters died(Luke and Nick especially) but at least their deaths were more believable and logical, Sarah fell on top of rubble and then it somehow fell on her and made her stuck? Really? And I still remember how those TTG guys just laughed Sarah's death up with that IGN guy -_-
I can only remember the scrapped concept about the Zoo, I don't actually remember the Carlos + Sarah part.
If Telltale wouldn't want to go with killing off Sarah and Carlos at the lake, then it honestly provided a great death scene for Nick's 2nd death/Jane.
Honestly, killing off Luke was so pointless. Having him vs Kenny rather than Jane (who could have died in the herd at Carver's instead of Carlos) would have actually made sense. Kenny and Luke had a rivalry budding throughout the season, it wasn't until late episode 5 when Jane and Kenny started pulling each other's tail which was basically forced.
Kenny vs Jane was like the angry uncle vs the crazy vodka aunt.
I don't remember ever hearing this
I mean, I heard the part about a zoo and a tiger being thrown around in the planning stages, but nothing more. In fact, I'm almost certain that the zoo/tiger concept never even made it to any level of development, not even rudimentary concept art, let alone actually being in a script/draft. If Carlos and Sarah were part of this script, that means that the tiger concept would have had to exist during actual development, or had to have been around long enough for there to be anything close to a cohesive script. And if the idea survived that long, then there would have to be some piece of evidence pointing to it's existence; concept art, legacy code/textures/strings in the game's files, something.
It was mentioned in a video by Greg on some facts about the walking dead game, but the Carlos Sarah thing wasn't mentioned in that video, but I know I heard it somewhere on this forum and I know wasn't just rumor talk, it may have even someone from Telltale. God damn it, I wish I could remember where it was or posted it. I should've saved these things! I know it was in a thread, and I responded to it by showing a clip of RE Outbreak file 2 that had a level set in a zoo. I could check my old posts on here that far back I'd be able find it! T_T
I can think of two possibilities here:
or
Sarah's second death was terrible. Given the lack of anything happening in the finale, it would've been more than easy enough to of had her survive into the last episode, or to of had her survive entirely and live for another season. Luke and Nick might've had a shot at surviving too if things had gone differently. I still believe there is a lot more they could've done with Sarah's character. If you go out of your way to save a character, you want to be rewarded for that, like how letting Ben survive rewarded you with that confession scene where he snaps at Kenny and admits that he doesn't even know own family is still alive out there. That moment killed me, especially when he mentioned he had a little sister.
Then Ben's second death plays into the plot and isn't just a quick glazing over neither. If Sarah died a second time, I wish it could've been something as important as Ben's second death where we feel emotionally invested rather than cheated. Imagine if it'd been instead she'd gotten injured in the shootout an then later you as Clementine had to say goodbye to her...ah, anything would've been better honest on that.
I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt because I thought Greg was encouraging them to laugh with his joking nature, and I thought hey, even if they're making stupid jokes about it, it does make sense that weak would fall victim in a world like that [hell if it were me, I know I'd be dead in a ZA. I'd be just like Sarah, I'd have a breakdown]. But then the last episode of playing dead came out after the finale and they did the exact same thing again, they laughed. Whole twist thing with Jane and pretending Luke was important, and they were laughing about it. Given at the time I was very upset with how the finale had turned out, to see them joking about how their fans thought he was going to make it, and with some silly sunset joke, it really struck a nerve. It was like they hadn't learned anything from the backlash on Sarah to at least attempt to play it down on the humor when talking about their characters they'd just offed.
I'm not going to judge them over a few interviews, but those two interviews are cringe worthy enough to me now that I don't have any interest in giving them a second viewing.
I kind of think the point of sarahs character was to be unsaveable, they should have just made her unsaveable in the trailer or made the second death better
At least they'd be at rest together. Father and daughter, safe beneath ice.
Ok
Ah, so you play this game because choices don't matter? Well, I'm glad Doug (Counting your profile) died no matter what. Happy?
I would've personally liked to be able to teach Sarah to shoot so that when she fell on the Observation Deck(on top of the rubble, not under the magical rubble) then she'd be able to shoot the Walkers or Jane would be able to save her, and then later on Sarah lives for the rest of the Season and when the car crashed Sarah will go to the Pit Stop with Clementine and be a Bystander in the Kenny VS Jane fight, I'd love to see what Sarah could've added to the Endings, wanting the family in at Howe's, being badass in Clementine's ending and saying goodbye to Clementine or going into Wellington with Clementine in Kenny's ending, I just felt like Sarah could've been a great determinant character to keep for several Seasons just to see her develop.
I felt offended too by their humor too, I didn't even know they laughed at Luke's death, that just makes me hope Season 3 has different people who can make the Season better and not just kill off characters for a laugh just because they're 'weak' or just because fans kept thinking they'd survive. They should focus more on the story and character development than adding shock factor in my opinion. I honestly hate how games and shows keep offing 'weak' characters, it just makes some people who relate to those characters feel bad about their own chances in life(at least some of them I think), I'd like to see a 'weak' character actually survive without being overly badass one day.
I don't like most of the interviews on IGN to be honest.
That would only emphasize how your decisions don't matter, how your story isn't really tailored by how you play, they could've done so much with Sarah's character in my opinion.
Yeah I wanted Sarah to put her shooting skills to use to. The Observation Deck would've been the perfect time to do it when they were having to shoot the walkers trying to break through the gate. I honestly believed we were going to get more time with Sarah and I was shocked when we didn't. It just seems like a bunch of characters got wasted this season, and the problem as well is we lose so many characters by the end that we gain so little as a result of our experience. Jane and Kenny are determinant, and other characters are either dead or unknown, leaving just Clementine and a baby who can't connect to much of the story of the season because he wasn't born nor will remember any of it. Not only that, but Clem's connection to A.J is only really established within the last episode and it's incredibly difficult as the player to gain an attachment to the baby within that time-frame, especially so when A.J doesn't behave like a real baby .
That's perhaps why by after so many characters dying, when they offed Luke and in the way that they did, I felt done. There was the shot of everybody in the room with Clementine in that half-built house, and I realized at that point there was nobody else left in the group that I really cared about, except for Clementine herself. The cabin group was gone, Kenny's group was gone, none of the characters in that room had been with Clem from the beginning of Season 2. Our interactions with those characters as a result felt as though they were for nothing, which is a real shame, because for something as simple as teaching Sarah to use a gun, to who you decide to sit with at a table, you want for it to mean something to story than just a random set of scenes with no importance.
But I know what you mean about the weak character. I related to Sarah and Nick a bit on that. Like I said, it would have been nice to have more people left alive for another season.
Its a story game, you're not always gonna get what you want.
Um... what? When was there ever anything about a Zoo?
EDIT: never mind, read above reply.
No, I said in this one moment and character it was a good time for it to not matter. The sarah character literally was a perfect example for that. Overall choice really should matter more, however I can appreciate the point of it not mattering here, especially as the second death scene was so bizzare.
Um...alright. Was that supposed to hurt my feelings or something? I thought the doug/carley death was very well done; them dying at the same point was a bit lame but it was still a big moment in the series.
About what?
You didnt teach sarah to shoot, you showed her how to hold a gun; at a moment she was barely paying attention. At that point sarah was in full panic mode too. The second death should have been done better, the whole group just looks incompetent