....
Well , Carver kidnapped a group of people who clearly didn't want to go with him. He made Carlos hit his daughter across the face. He … morebeat Allen to death and attempted to keep a baby that may or may not have been a product of him sexually assaulting Rebecca.
Other than that , he's a swell guy.
I fail to see how Reggie is a liability in any way. He had Stockholm Syndrome and would have easily been Carver's agent had he took full advantage of it rather than killing him either over berries, or the fact that he had helped the Cabin Group escape originally and was implied to have already been punished for it via the loss of his arm.
Besides, killing Reggie amounted to nothing in the end since it ended up causing a chain of events that lead to Carver's own death, as the murder of Reggie caused Bonnie to lose faith in him and aid the Cabin Group (and Mike and Jane) in their escape, which also lead to Kenny killing Carver on the way out.
Why call Carver a sociopath?
All he did was protect his people and tried to condone the whole Survival of the Fittest shit, hence why he … morekilled Reggie (calling him a liability). And Clem really isn't much different seeing what she's doing in Season 2. From a sweet, innocent girl to a cold, blood-thirsty killer. She's nothing like she was and is very similar to Carver.
That's the point. She had personality in season one, she had meaning. Season two came a long and she was manipulative and completely different. Manipulating Sarah, Alvin.
That's the point. She had personality in season one, she had meaning. Season two came a long and she was manipulative and completely different. Manipulating Sarah, Alvin.
Exactly, she manipulates them to help her. She also can force Rebecca to treat her nicely just because she knows Alvin Jr is Carvers. Would Season One Clementine do that?
Carver and Clem seem to have hated each other no matter what way you look at it. Mutual respect maybe, but nothing implied getting along. We had more of a chance to be friendlier with Reggie and being best buds with him than Carver.
Exactly, she manipulates them to help her. She also can force Rebecca to treat her nicely just because she knows Alvin Jr is Carvers. Would Season One Clementine do that?
Carver and Clem seem to have hated each other no matter what way you look at it. Mutual respect maybe, but nothing implied getting along. We had more of a chance to be friendlier with Reggie and being best buds with him than Carver.
Clementine also saved Sarah's life , if you don't remember.
And they could have at least tied a piece of cloth around her arm to cut off the bleeding. And Carlos is a fucking DOCTOR. He should be able to tell the difference between dog teeth marks and human teeth marks.
Don't be a hypocrite. When people said that Sarah was to blame for things, people like you said "she has a disability, her father sheltered … moreher. Blah blah blah", but now when clementine is in the wrong, you say Sarah could've said no? sarah barely knew right from wrong, what she thought she was doing was helping a friend, when all clementine did was use and manipulate Sarah. And as. I said, nicks mum got bit, how could they take the chance and leave her in the house if she actually got bit and turned?
Yes she does, and she can also leave her to die, but because it's Clementine, she can get away with leaving people to die, where as people like Ben, can leave Clementine and be ridiculed for it. But Ben was built on being hated and if you do something negative towards Clementine, you're going to be hated. Double Standards eh?
He said if she was telling the truth, they'd clean it out. They didn't even know her, for all they knew she could be lying. Also, if you noticed, the bite was completely different to Lees. Lee was noticeable as being actually bitten with teeth marks. Clementines was ripped from side to side like she split it open. There was no way to tell what actually bit her.
Clementine also saved Sarah's life , if you don't remember.
And they could have at least tied a piece of cloth around her arm to cut off th… moree bleeding. And Carlos is a fucking DOCTOR. He should be able to tell the difference between dog teeth marks and human teeth marks.
You do remember that nicks mum got bit. How can you take someone's word let a lone a little girl ? Also, she manipulates Sarah Into helping her and then Sarah gets in strife for it.
I agree. Weather you're nice or manipulative. She still uses Sarah to get what she wants. And then Carlos has a yell at Sarah. But like I said, Clementine can get away with it because it's Clementine.
I agree. Weather you're nice or manipulative. She still uses Sarah to get what she wants. And then Carlos has a yell at Sarah. But like I said, Clementine can get away with it because it's Clementine.
Also in season one she can indirectly cause the deaths of multiple major characters due to her own negligence and she's the victim, but ones like Ben do something bad that indirectly cause the death of players and he gets major heat. Each to their own though.
Also in season one she can indirectly cause the deaths of multiple major characters due to her own negligence and she's the victim, but ones… more like Ben do something bad that indirectly cause the death of players and he gets major heat. Each to their own though.
Ben, and Kenny being separated from the group and Lee getting bit and eventually dying. Why? Because she failed to listen to someone she trusted and insisted on believing a stranger who kidnapped her and resulted in Lee being bit, and the group searching all over savannah looking for her, Ben gets pole through his body, dies. Kenny gets lost from the group and Lee dies, all of this could've been avoided had she not listened to strangers and instead listened to people she trusted She also causes the death of Omid because she was too stupid to keep her gun with her. Ben indirectly causes the death of Carley/Doug, Katjaa , Duck and Brie. I don't know about you, but the ones Clementine indirectly caused the death of were way more important then what Ben did. Not saying characters aren't important, but the fact that Clementine gets away with indirectly causing the death of the playable character in season one is pretty fucked up. Ben says he made a deal witht the bandits because they manipulated him into thinking they had his friends and his a flog or useless. Clementine gets manipulated by a stranger In saying he knows where her parents are, and it's all "Poor Clementine, she didn't know, she's a kid. I'll use a quote from Charles "You gotta consider her a living person, that's it! You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive." No excuses.
Clementine, a 9 year old girl, can't help but be manipulated by a man she had grown to trust with the idea that he knew where her parents were. The entire season we see Clementine pulling on Lee's sleeve to go and find them.
So you're trying to tell me that Ben being manipulated by the bandits, which caused the death of Katjaa and Duck who, no...
Ben indirectly causes the death of Carley/Doug, Katjaa , Duck and Brie. I don't know about you, but the ones Clementine indirectly caused the death of were way more important then what Ben did.
wasn't less important than the death's Clementine caused. Because of Ben, Kenny lost his mind. It's shown how much it impacted in the days after it happened and in the long run, the entirety of Season 2 Episode 2+ was Kenny's mind fighting itself. He clung onto Sarita when she was dying because he just couldn't relive that again. He blamed Clementine for it because he couldn't stand to blame himself like he did in Season 1 with Kat and Duck. So, no. Without Ben indirectly killing them, Kenny would be a much different person to who he was in Season 2 (had they stayed alive that long), which would have changed a lot of things that happened. It was definitely important.
Ben says he made a deal witht the bandits because they manipulated him into thinking they had his friends and his a flog or useless.
And the stranger manipulated Clementine with the paradise of seeing her parents again.
Clementine gets manipulated by a stranger In saying he knows where her parents are, and it's all "Poor Clementine, she didn't know, she's a kid. I'll use a quote from Charles "You gotta consider her a living person, that's it! You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive." No excuses.
You can't say "no excuses" when Clementine and Ben had completely different situation and a completely different mindset.
Clementine was only 9 years old, children have much more fragile minds than teenagers or adults. They're more trusting no matter what you tell them. That's why you see little girls on the playground trusting grown men they've never seen before all because they've told them "Hey, help me find my dog?" or "I know your parents, you're allowed to come with me" despite being told their whole life not to trust strangers. It's not a "no excuses" type of subject when there's evidence to prove that child minds are different to more experienced minds.
And Charles's quote wasn't about excusing her actions, it was about teaching her how to protect herself no matter the age, gender or intellect.
I don't hold Ben nor Clementine accountable for their actions that indirectly killed people because it wasn't their fault, it was manipulation. I don't hold Clementine more dearly because she's a little girl, her situation is much more understandable and isn't a "this could possibly happen, but it's slim" situation like Ben's is. Because you wouldn't think that in a world where the word zombies or the idea of brain-dead cannibals doesn't exist, that in an outbreak, some bandits would hold a friend (that may or may not even be alive anyway) ransom for medicine. Ben's a teenager too, that's not a common thing for teenagers to go through like it is for a little girl to be abducted.
Moral of the story, Ben and Clementine are victims of manipulation and they aren't at fault for that.
Ben, and Kenny being separated from the group and Lee getting bit and eventually dying. Why? Because she failed to listen to someone she tru… morested and insisted on believing a stranger who kidnapped her and resulted in Lee being bit, and the group searching all over savannah looking for her, Ben gets pole through his body, dies. Kenny gets lost from the group and Lee dies, all of this could've been avoided had she not listened to strangers and instead listened to people she trusted She also causes the death of Omid because she was too stupid to keep her gun with her. Ben indirectly causes the death of Carley/Doug, Katjaa , Duck and Brie. I don't know about you, but the ones Clementine indirectly caused the death of were way more important then what Ben did. Not saying characters aren't important, but the fact that Clementine gets away with indirectly causing the death of the playable character in season one is pretty fucked up. Ben says he mad… [view original content]
Lee says to Clementine on the train that they will look for her parents, then they have to find a boat. He tells her that there's no point and that they're probably gone. She doesn't even tell Lee that the man that knows where my parents are is outside to take her to them. She just leaves and then look what happens.
Ben did cause Kenny to lose his mind but at least the guy was still alive, unlike what Clementine did. And Ben confessed that he admitted he fucked up, Clementine never admitted she was the cause for characters being killed at her expense, we're just suppose to think she's a victim. And you can't put the blame of Ben about Sarita dying, Kenny wouldve been distraught regardless, and he wouldve snapped at anyone that way, It was only at Clementine because Bonnie told her to go and try to talk to him.
Yeah and why not tell Lee? Why just run off and not let anyone know. She was warned by Christa and Lee that he was not a sincere person but she still didn't care.
Exactly, but if you notice situations like that, the kids are with their parents, if a guy does that, the parents are there to protect their children. Clementine didn't even tell ONE member of the group that the stranger was baiting her to meet him outside, she just got up and went and got herself kidnapped. The fact that she didn't even tell one of them shows how stupid she is.
I wasn't quoting Charles quote to excuse her actions, i was quoting it because you can't treat her as a kid, shes a living thing, you cant excuse her actions because shes a kid, Lee got bit from trying to save her after her stupid decision and did he get a 2nd chance? no.
I never said YOU directly held Ben or Clementine responsible, i said that on the forum, Ben gets a lot of hate and what not for causing players to die, yet Clementine did the same thing just a different situation and she gets off. Double Standards galore.
Exactly, both were manipulated, so it goes both ways, if people blame Ben for indirect killings, then Clementine should be held accountable as well. Can't have it both ways.
Clementine, a 9 year old girl, can't help but be manipulated by a man she had grown to trust with the idea that he knew where her parents we… morere. The entire season we see Clementine pulling on Lee's sleeve to go and find them.
So you're trying to tell me that Ben being manipulated by the bandits, which caused the death of Katjaa and Duck who, no...
Ben indirectly causes the death of Carley/Doug, Katjaa , Duck and Brie. I don't know about you, but the ones Clementine indirectly caused the death of were way more important then what Ben did.
wasn't less important than the death's Clementine caused. Because of Ben, Kenny lost his mind. It's shown how much it impacted in the days after it happened and in the long run, the entirety of Season 2 Episode 2+ was Kenny's mind fighting itself. He clung onto Sarita when she was dying because he just couldn't relive that again. He blamed Clementine for it because he couldn't stand to blame h… [view original content]
Exactly, both were manipulated, so it goes both ways, if people blame Ben for indirect killings, then Clementine should be held accountable as well. Can't have it both ways.
I don't even see why people hold Ben accountable for it anyway tbh.
Lee says to Clementine on the train that they will look for her parents, then they have to find a boat. He tells her that there's no point a… morend that they're probably gone. She doesn't even tell Lee that the man that knows where my parents are is outside to take her to them. She just leaves and then look what happens.
Ben did cause Kenny to lose his mind but at least the guy was still alive, unlike what Clementine did. And Ben confessed that he admitted he fucked up, Clementine never admitted she was the cause for characters being killed at her expense, we're just suppose to think she's a victim. And you can't put the blame of Ben about Sarita dying, Kenny wouldve been distraught regardless, and he wouldve snapped at anyone that way, It was only at Clementine because Bonnie told her to go and try to talk to him.
Yeah and why not tell Lee? Why just run off and not let anyone know. She was warned by Christa and Lee that he was not a sincere… [view original content]
Have you never seen the threads on here with worst characters? Have a look at that thread called useless characters. Ben will be in the majority of opinions. Manly because of what he did.
Exactly, both were manipulated, so it goes both ways, if people blame Ben for indirect killings, then Clementine should be held accountable as well. Can't have it both ways.
I don't even see why people hold Ben accountable for it anyway tbh.
Have you never seen the threads on here with worst characters? Have a look at that thread called useless characters. Ben will be in the majority of opinions. Manly because of what he did.
Whether or not the Cabin Group failed as a group themselves, they were good at heart. Carver just isn't, he's a sick freak who puts on the act of the 'normal guy who has to do tough things to survive'. I call BS. Carver was mentally insane. Clementine should never side with him imo. He is what will send the world backwards.
Comments
Allen?
I fail to see how Reggie is a liability in any way. He had Stockholm Syndrome and would have easily been Carver's agent had he took full advantage of it rather than killing him either over berries, or the fact that he had helped the Cabin Group escape originally and was implied to have already been punished for it via the loss of his arm.
Besides, killing Reggie amounted to nothing in the end since it ended up causing a chain of events that lead to Carver's own death, as the murder of Reggie caused Bonnie to lose faith in him and aid the Cabin Group (and Mike and Jane) in their escape, which also lead to Kenny killing Carver on the way out.
That's the point. She had personality in season one, she had meaning. Season two came a long and she was manipulative and completely different. Manipulating Sarah, Alvin.
She asked for their help. Even when carlos stated "you manipulated my daughter", Clementine says she "asked for her help".
Exactly, she manipulates them to help her. She also can force Rebecca to treat her nicely just because she knows Alvin Jr is Carvers. Would Season One Clementine do that?
Carver and Clem seem to have hated each other no matter what way you look at it. Mutual respect maybe, but nothing implied getting along. We had more of a chance to be friendlier with Reggie and being best buds with him than Carver.
Key word "can" it's how YOU play her.
Nah, the second he touched Clementine's hat his fate was solidified
Clementine also saved Sarah's life , if you don't remember.
And they could have at least tied a piece of cloth around her arm to cut off the bleeding. And Carlos is a fucking DOCTOR. He should be able to tell the difference between dog teeth marks and human teeth marks.
Reggie's surname is Allen? I thought he was Indian?
Yes she does, and she can also leave her to die, but because it's Clementine, she can get away with leaving people to die, where as people like Ben, can leave Clementine and be ridiculed for it. But Ben was built on being hated and if you do something negative towards Clementine, you're going to be hated. Double Standards eh?
He said if she was telling the truth, they'd clean it out. They didn't even know her, for all they knew she could be lying. Also, if you noticed, the bite was completely different to Lees. Lee was noticeable as being actually bitten with teeth marks. Clementines was ripped from side to side like she split it open. There was no way to tell what actually bit her.
It is cursed.
Like the person says, it's your choice to make her manipulative. No matter how you act to Sarah, she always gets you the peroxide.
I agree. Weather you're nice or manipulative. She still uses Sarah to get what she wants. And then Carlos has a yell at Sarah. But like I said, Clementine can get away with it because it's Clementine.
Yeah, plot armor basically.
Also in season one she can indirectly cause the deaths of multiple major characters due to her own negligence and she's the victim, but ones like Ben do something bad that indirectly cause the death of players and he gets major heat. Each to their own though.
Sorry. Meant Alvin.
The Christmas music has poisoned my brain.
Who does she indirectly kill?
Ben, and Kenny being separated from the group and Lee getting bit and eventually dying. Why? Because she failed to listen to someone she trusted and insisted on believing a stranger who kidnapped her and resulted in Lee being bit, and the group searching all over savannah looking for her, Ben gets pole through his body, dies. Kenny gets lost from the group and Lee dies, all of this could've been avoided had she not listened to strangers and instead listened to people she trusted She also causes the death of Omid because she was too stupid to keep her gun with her. Ben indirectly causes the death of Carley/Doug, Katjaa , Duck and Brie. I don't know about you, but the ones Clementine indirectly caused the death of were way more important then what Ben did. Not saying characters aren't important, but the fact that Clementine gets away with indirectly causing the death of the playable character in season one is pretty fucked up. Ben says he made a deal witht the bandits because they manipulated him into thinking they had his friends and his a flog or useless. Clementine gets manipulated by a stranger In saying he knows where her parents are, and it's all "Poor Clementine, she didn't know, she's a kid. I'll use a quote from Charles "You gotta consider her a living person, that's it! You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive." No excuses.
Clementine, a 9 year old girl, can't help but be manipulated by a man she had grown to trust with the idea that he knew where her parents were. The entire season we see Clementine pulling on Lee's sleeve to go and find them.
So you're trying to tell me that Ben being manipulated by the bandits, which caused the death of Katjaa and Duck who, no...
wasn't less important than the death's Clementine caused. Because of Ben, Kenny lost his mind. It's shown how much it impacted in the days after it happened and in the long run, the entirety of Season 2 Episode 2+ was Kenny's mind fighting itself. He clung onto Sarita when she was dying because he just couldn't relive that again. He blamed Clementine for it because he couldn't stand to blame himself like he did in Season 1 with Kat and Duck. So, no. Without Ben indirectly killing them, Kenny would be a much different person to who he was in Season 2 (had they stayed alive that long), which would have changed a lot of things that happened. It was definitely important.
And the stranger manipulated Clementine with the paradise of seeing her parents again.
You can't say "no excuses" when Clementine and Ben had completely different situation and a completely different mindset.
Clementine was only 9 years old, children have much more fragile minds than teenagers or adults. They're more trusting no matter what you tell them. That's why you see little girls on the playground trusting grown men they've never seen before all because they've told them "Hey, help me find my dog?" or "I know your parents, you're allowed to come with me" despite being told their whole life not to trust strangers. It's not a "no excuses" type of subject when there's evidence to prove that child minds are different to more experienced minds.
And Charles's quote wasn't about excusing her actions, it was about teaching her how to protect herself no matter the age, gender or intellect.
I don't hold Ben nor Clementine accountable for their actions that indirectly killed people because it wasn't their fault, it was manipulation. I don't hold Clementine more dearly because she's a little girl, her situation is much more understandable and isn't a "this could possibly happen, but it's slim" situation like Ben's is. Because you wouldn't think that in a world where the word zombies or the idea of brain-dead cannibals doesn't exist, that in an outbreak, some bandits would hold a friend (that may or may not even be alive anyway) ransom for medicine. Ben's a teenager too, that's not a common thing for teenagers to go through like it is for a little girl to be abducted.
Moral of the story, Ben and Clementine are victims of manipulation and they aren't at fault for that.
Lee says to Clementine on the train that they will look for her parents, then they have to find a boat. He tells her that there's no point and that they're probably gone. She doesn't even tell Lee that the man that knows where my parents are is outside to take her to them. She just leaves and then look what happens.
Ben did cause Kenny to lose his mind but at least the guy was still alive, unlike what Clementine did. And Ben confessed that he admitted he fucked up, Clementine never admitted she was the cause for characters being killed at her expense, we're just suppose to think she's a victim. And you can't put the blame of Ben about Sarita dying, Kenny wouldve been distraught regardless, and he wouldve snapped at anyone that way, It was only at Clementine because Bonnie told her to go and try to talk to him.
Yeah and why not tell Lee? Why just run off and not let anyone know. She was warned by Christa and Lee that he was not a sincere person but she still didn't care.
Exactly, but if you notice situations like that, the kids are with their parents, if a guy does that, the parents are there to protect their children. Clementine didn't even tell ONE member of the group that the stranger was baiting her to meet him outside, she just got up and went and got herself kidnapped. The fact that she didn't even tell one of them shows how stupid she is.
I wasn't quoting Charles quote to excuse her actions, i was quoting it because you can't treat her as a kid, shes a living thing, you cant excuse her actions because shes a kid, Lee got bit from trying to save her after her stupid decision and did he get a 2nd chance? no.
I never said YOU directly held Ben or Clementine responsible, i said that on the forum, Ben gets a lot of hate and what not for causing players to die, yet Clementine did the same thing just a different situation and she gets off. Double Standards galore.
Exactly, both were manipulated, so it goes both ways, if people blame Ben for indirect killings, then Clementine should be held accountable as well. Can't have it both ways.
I don't even see why people hold Ben accountable for it anyway tbh.
I do not want to see another father/daughter relationship like Jack and Angel's.
Have you never seen the threads on here with worst characters? Have a look at that thread called useless characters. Ben will be in the majority of opinions. Manly because of what he did.
I know why he's hated, I just don't see how people haven't used common sense and understand that he was manipulated.
Whether or not the Cabin Group failed as a group themselves, they were good at heart. Carver just isn't, he's a sick freak who puts on the act of the 'normal guy who has to do tough things to survive'. I call BS. Carver was mentally insane. Clementine should never side with him imo. He is what will send the world backwards.
Yeah, Lee will always be that father figure in her life.