Extend the episodes (2 hrs each minimum),
hub areas and
fleshed out character relationships
The reason season 1 was so good was because of the connection between Clem and Lee. As much as I liked season 2 none of the relationships felt as strong as that. Not saying season 3 needs a father-daughter type bond, it just has to be as powerful as Clem and Lee's.
if I have a biased opinion, what does that make yours? I admit Kenny stole the spotlight in some aspects, yet you can't admit Clementine did when it's been proven to you that she destroyed the cabin groups chance to develop in all that remains. Because after that they had no hope, Kenny came, Carver came, then they all got slaughtered for a body count, some in stupid ways (Nick, Sarah, Luke).
Guys please stop arguing! Most of the writing and all character development was very poor in season 2. They should and could have developed the characters more and if the episodes were as long as season 1 they could have but they were poor and short! The fact we could hardy interact with any of the characters was a problem too. Whenever you could talk to someone, it just virtually chooses the dialogue for us, we didn't get to ask the characters anything. They didn't give us that freedom.
But anyway lets just drop the arguments about this
It doesn't matter what happens, opinion vs opinion won't result in a winner. As long as telltale either starts fresh in season 3 with no cle… morementine or season 3 has her, but she's not the playable character. Then she can be the primary character besides the playable character. Where she belongs
Exactly. Season 2 was very poor from a writing standpoint. It's the negligence of certain people who don't choose to accept what you've said and instead they blame certain characters when we can all agree it was everything. It's when people won't admit something was the causes of a negative impact is when Ii either get them to admit it, or they stop replying because they know its true.
Guys please stop arguing! Most of the writing and all character development was very poor in season 2. They should and could have developed … morethe characters more and if the episodes were as long as season 1 they could have but they were poor and short! The fact we could hardy interact with any of the characters was a problem too. Whenever you could talk to someone, it just virtually chooses the dialogue for us, we didn't get to ask the characters anything. They didn't give us that freedom.
But anyway lets just drop the arguments about this
Maybe so but everyone have different opinions and you can't force anyone to change that. I'm a Kenny fan and no one is going to stop me being a fan or change my opinions on things. Both of you should stop arguing and respect each others views. You don't have to accept opinions but do respect them
Exactly. Season 2 was very poor from a writing standpoint. It's the negligence of certain people who don't choose to accept what you've said… more and instead they blame certain characters when we can all agree it was everything. It's when people won't admit something was the causes of a negative impact is when Ii either get them to admit it, or they stop replying because they know its true.
If you're going to say this to one of us, you should say it to him or her. I said It doesn't matter what happens, opinion vs opinion won't result in a winner respecting him/her opinion. When they responded, they said "biased opinion". If anyone needs lesson on respecting someone's opinion it's that person, not me.
Maybe so but everyone have different opinions and you can't force anyone to change that. I'm a Kenny fan and no one is going to stop me bein… moreg a fan or change my opinions on things. Both of you should stop arguing and respect each others views. You don't have to accept opinions but do respect them
If you're going to say this to one of us, you should say it to him or her. I said It doesn't matter what happens, opinion vs opinion won't r… moreesult in a winner respecting him/her opinion. When they responded, they said "biased opinion". If anyone needs lesson on respecting someone's opinion it's that person, not me.
the believable and logical way the scenario would have worked is if jane kicked the door down, the second a grown adult told a small child to break down a door is when it went stupid, it doesn't matter that clementines method of breaking down the door was ridiculous
Alright, to be serious
A quick and relatively easy fix to an oft talked-about scene: kicking down the trailer door
Solution? Have Clem… moreentine use the hatchet on the door.
Hatchet + shitty wooden trailer door = shitty wooden trailer door that is now open
It accomplishes the same thing, and it's much more believable. A few good smacks near the door knob, and you're in. Even if she's a kid, it's still much more valid than her having the leg strength to bust open the door. It doesn't take as much effort to swing a sharp weapon into something.
If anything, it's a lapse of judgement that they didn't do this in the first place. I mean, they even have her use it later in the episode at the observation deck to basically do the same thing, so they don't really have an excuse here
Lee got a good amount of time alone when he was in the sewers. I wouldnt know for sure unless I measure, but its proabably comparable. Still, this isnt a competiton between Lee and Clem. The first season wasnt all about Lee. His focus was to take care of Clementine so in a way she shared the spotlight and thats what we expected. The second season was supposed to be about Clementine surviving. We got that way before the game came out with the "I am Clementine" campaign. It is supposed to focus on her, so those scenes where she is alone figuring things out are needed. In fact, once I got past losing Omid and Christa, I thought those scenes held a lot of promise. I wanted to see what it would take for a small girl to survive alone in this unforgiving world. Thats what I thought we were going to get.
Instead, she was introduced to a new group not long after. Okay, fine. Thats realistic. It would be hard for Clementine to be alone for long. So they switched to Clementine being seen as a dangerous outsider, and trying to convince the others to take her in. Okay, that is still an interesting premise, plus we did see Clementine using her wits and will to take care of herself in the shed. We got to know a bit about the cabin group but the focus was not on them. We even got to like some of them and dislike others in that short amount of time. Off to a good enough start.
The next episodes would have been a great opportunity for Clem, and us, to really get to know the cabin group, work with them, and build a story around them, but Clem still should have been the main focus. It makes sense as she is the playable character, and therefore us, the player. Instead, Kenny comes back into the story and it becomes all about his drama. Clementine gets pushed aside for him. The Carver story becomes about him. A baby is born and given to him. The game ends with Clementine being forced to choose between a life with him or without him. Clementine, imo, stopped being the star of her own story and it became Kenny's story. She was supposed to be the focus of season two, but Kenny took over. I firmly believe that if Kenny had not been reintroduced into the story, then we would have gotten a lot more focus on the cabineers.
Now, what I get from you is that you seem to hate Clementine and resent every moment she's onscreen. Is that fair to say? Thats fine if you dont like the character but the second season, from what we understood, was supposed to be about her survival story. The cabin group shouldnt have take precidence over her, they should have supported her story. In some ways, that was lacking, but it wasnt Clementine's fault as a character. I wanted to see more development of the group. There's so much I wanted to know about all of them. Unfortunally, most of them got killed off so fast we didnt really get that. Im hoping that in season three we will get to live with the characters a little longer, and get to know and like them more.
She was with christa and Omid, First part was mainly her in the toilet searching, Omid dies, then Christa and Omid in the bush, mainly focus… more on Clementine trying to start a fire, Christa "dies". Next it's all about Clementine running away from a guy. Next day, all about her walking around until she finds Sam, then it's all about her until she kills the dog. Walking around till she faints, gets picked up by Luke and Pete, then they come to the group, they argue, throw her in the shed, then it's all about her walking around and in the cabin to find supplies unless you talk to Sarah and maybe Alvin. Get back in the shed, fix herself up, attack and kill the walker, then she's inside and focus is all about her when Luke talks to her exepct when they say about Nicks mum being killed. Next day Pete, Nick and Her finding bodies and then choosing between who to save. Compare that to what Lee got in a new day and I think you'll find that she got way more solo time then Lee got.
Maybe people wouldnt have so much of a problem with Clem doing everything if an adult was with her. She could still be the playable character, but sharing her burdens with someone else. Like, for instance, someone going with her into that cabin instead of her kicking the door down by herself. Spilled milk at this point but I did like playing as Clem and still think it could have worked much better.
the believable and logical way the scenario would have worked is if jane kicked the door down, the second a grown adult told a small child t… moreo break down a door is when it went stupid, it doesn't matter that clementines method of breaking down the door was ridiculous
Guys, holy shit. Every opinion is biased, that's the point. If you guys are really getting a kick out of this then just PM each other instead of filling this thread with an argument that's clearly going nowhere.
i think the problem was that they didn't write a story for a child protagonist, they wrote a story for a generic protagonist then had to sort of work around the child part.
like when they were thinking of ideas as to what scenarios could happen in the game and how the story would work and they thought "a child wouldn't/couldn't do this" they should have scrapped the idea, not just figured out contrived reason why a child does it, and the same goes for the overall arc of the story.
it just seemed like they went with the "but she's the protagonist" excuse way to often, instead of rethinking or coming up with new ideas.
Maybe people wouldnt have so much of a problem with Clem doing everything if an adult was with her. She could still be the playable characte… morer, but sharing her burdens with someone else. Like, for instance, someone going with her into that cabin instead of her kicking the door down by herself. Spilled milk at this point but I did like playing as Clem and still think it could have worked much better.
Guys, holy shit. Every opinion is biased, that's the point. If you guys are really getting a kick out of this then just PM each other instead of filling this thread with an argument that's clearly going nowhere.
She was pretty boring and bland in S2. She lacked personality, and I can see why the majority of people don't want to play as her again. She's written to be unrealistic and she has a monotone voice. She sounds sleepy all the time.
Funny how you mention the sewers, yet you failed to realise that I was comparing Lee's screen time in the first episode of S1 to Clementines in S2's first episode. Everytime Lee wander around i.e at hershels farm or inside the pharmacy, he always was talking to people. The main focus was him yes, but every other character wasn't left out unless you decide to ignore them (though on Hershels, you have to talk to the other people) where as in all that remains, Clementine has scenes of being just her, i.e the camp fire, walking around the next day, finding sam, walking around more after Sam dies and trying to find supplies for her arm. But if you want to mention the sewers then okay. Lee had a lone time in that yes. I just watched 2 play throughs of the scene from Lee falling in the sewer to meeting Vernon and his group,it takes around 7 minutes. NOW, I watched the scene from Clementine waking up the next day after losing Christa, to meeting Luke and Pete ready for it? 16 minutes. And the funny part is around every corner goes for 2 hours+ and Lee had that sewer scene for less then 10 minutes of a 2 hour episode where as Clementine had almost 20 minutes of that one scene in a episode that is less then 90 minutes long. In fact lets dig a bit more, Lets take all the a lone scenes of Clementine in all that remains and see how much time there is left shall we? Her a lone time is half the episode length. Half that episode is all about her, and that scene with her trying to find supplies can go for up to 20 minutes.
Season one dealt with a lot more then just Clementine, it had Lee's past, how he dealt with what he did. Kenny and his family, Lily and Larry, Saving Carley or Doug had different impacts, Ben's stuff ups and how you reacted to them, Chucks life advice for Clementine, Christa's pregnancy. There was a lot more to Season One then just Clementine.
Yes but not to overshadow the new characters. Have the scene with her running away from the guy chasing her but not just walking around a forest doing nothing, that's not showing what she learnt, unless Lee teached her how to walk.
If they kept her a lone even more, then you might as well throw the cabin group and just have her for all the episodes. Yes using her wits like how a child would be curious as to what is around, funny how that hole she made was there to be made though wasn't it? Okay, who did Clementine bond with ? Luke, yes. Nick, no he was always in the shadows. Pete? dies in the same episode or start of the next. Rebecca? is a bitch then apparently shes nice unlike Larry who stays true to his roots, Carlos? Is only there for the end and doesn't even get developed, he either thanks her or yells at her. Alvin? the juicebox was more popular then him.
No she shouldn't. She shoudlve been helping the new characters to develop so the player can get attached to them like S1. Lee was the player, and he was never written as a screen time hogger like Clementine and look how effective he was. How does the Carver story become about him? Carver is more interested in Clementine then him. He bashes Kenny because it wasn't going to effect Clementine more which lead to one of my favourite parts where she gets clocked on the back of the head by Troy (lol). Kenny killing Carver was only to see if people wanted Clementine to stay or watch, like when Lee kills the st john boys, it's all about if you'd do it infront of Clementine (screen hogger at it again).
Actually it was because he had experience with a baby, do you think the others would have been suitable? And Clementine has scenes with the kid to,
You can actually choose to not be with Kenny at the end but it was suppose to be a sad moment but I said Luke should've been there because then it could've been more heartfelt if he was to die instead of Jane but blame the writers for that.
That;s your opinion, I think personally if they had done what a new day did, develop the characters properly in all that remains, then they wouldn't of made Kenny "overshadow" the new group.
I never hated her before S2, I liked her character but was never big on her. I started hating her when she ditched the group to be with the stranger and ended up killing Lee, Kenny(until S2) and Ben if saved. Also, she is always the golden child, never does a foot wrong because she's a little girl. Ben can indirectly cause the death of players and be hated for it, but Clementine can do the same and indirectly cause the death of the playable character and that's ok because she cried? Double standards much? Season 2 I wanted to feel the same feeling I got when I played S1 with the emotion of how I felt with the characters, instead, I ended up resenting it because I was sick of always having it focused on her. I enjoyed Kenny being back because it was a character I had already developed a connection with. I couldn't get a connection with the cabin group because they didn't get enough time. it was all Clementine.
That's what I was trying to explain to you. If Clementine interacted with anyone I/e Pete or Luke, it would be for nothing, Pete dies at the end of ATR or the start of the 2nd episode, Luke is changed so many times from a nice guy, to leaving the group, to having sex with Jane and not caring, how is Luke's change of character like a woman on her period good development? And don't get me started on Nick.
Season 3 will be a lot better then S2 if they put their time and effort on just the game and not any other ones and put Clementine as the main character besides the playable character. If they bring a new play character and have her the 2nd important character, then i'll be happy and I can live with that, or get rid of Clementine.
Lee got a good amount of time alone when he was in the sewers. I wouldnt know for sure unless I measure, but its proabably comparable. Still… more, this isnt a competiton between Lee and Clem. The first season wasnt all about Lee. His focus was to take care of Clementine so in a way she shared the spotlight and thats what we expected. The second season was supposed to be about Clementine surviving. We got that way before the game came out with the "I am Clementine" campaign. It is supposed to focus on her, so those scenes where she is alone figuring things out are needed. In fact, once I got past losing Omid and Christa, I thought those scenes held a lot of promise. I wanted to see what it would take for a small girl to survive alone in this unforgiving world. Thats what I thought we were going to get.
Instead, she was introduced to a new group not long after. Okay, fine. Thats realistic. It would be hard for Clementine to be alone for long. So … [view original content]
She shouldn't be boring if she got that amount of screen time. She should never of been the player character, she shoudlve been how she was with Lee. The way her character shifted from S1 to S2 was more worse. Her voice sounds like she has something up her ass.
She was pretty boring and bland in S2. She lacked personality, and I can see why the majority of people don't want to play as her again. She's written to be unrealistic and she has a monotone voice. She sounds sleepy all the time.
The other Clementine fangirls. If you were to PM, none of them would be able to step in, I mean you did thank that other person for stating their opinion to me. Wouldn't be able to do that if it was Private.
The other Clementine fangirls. If you were to PM, none of them would be able to step in, I mean you did thank that other person for stating their opinion to me. Wouldn't be able to do that if it was Private.
Her voice sounded better in S1 because you can actually tell when she was scared, happy, sad, or excited. In S2 they did a good job with her facial movements, but you couldn't really tell if she was happy or sad depending on her voice. I still don't agree that she got enough screen time though. They should've developed her way more in S2.
She shouldn't be boring if she got that amount of screen time. She should never of been the player character, she shoudlve been how she was … morewith Lee. The way her character shifted from S1 to S2 was more worse. Her voice sounds like she has something up her ass.
The only thing that was questionable was Omid's death. At first I thought they were going to do season 2 about Christa and Clementine, but I guess not. I thought episode 1 was good, not the best episode ever, but I like it. Christa and Clementine get separated and Clem comes across a new group who's very reluctant to let her in.
Besides, that was just 1 episode. Kenny got 3 plus more than half of episode 2
So you think that the writers did a good job having Clementine walk around by herself in almost half of all that remains when in a new day, … moreif Lee walked around, he could interact with characters and develop the other ones?
You said that you originally wanted to go with Luke and you wanted to part ways with Kenny an episode ago. You're writing clearly indicates that had it not been for Kenny, in your mind, you probably would've thought that Luke would've been at the end. Fair assumption to say?
I wouldn't say Kenny got that much. When he arrived half way of episode 2, you could still talk the group and the new people, Walter had more important scenes then Kenny, Carvers group came a long and then they got more time. Episode 3 wasn't just about Kenny. It was exploring Carvers character, his interest in Clementine, Luke deserting the group and then coming back, Mike, Jane and Bonnie, Wasn't all about Kenny.
Amid the ruins, Jane took over that episode. Kenny really only had the baby being born, his depression with Sarita and having a go at Clementine from which Bonnie told her to go annoy him. Jane all of a sudden was the big deal and trying to fix Sarah after Carlo's death, more important then Kenny in that episode.
Episode 5 is when yes Kenny was getting a lot more time but they killed Luke off and then Mike and Bonnie left with Arvo so blame the writing part for that one.
The only thing that was questionable was Omid's death. At first I thought they were going to do season 2 about Christa and Clementine, but I… more guess not. I thought episode 1 was good, not the best episode ever, but I like it. Christa and Clementine get separated and Clem comes across a new group who's very reluctant to let her in.
Besides, that was just 1 episode. Kenny got 3 plus more than half of episode 2
I feel they tried to make her too mature. Like she was 18 or something. She was what 11? 12? She's still a girl. Her being able to for example kill that walker in the shed is very unrealistic. I know she learnt lesson from Lee but when she shoved the walker with the rake, really? The size of that walker was man handled by a little girl? That's why I said, she should've had a similar role in S1, with a different player character. Clementine is perfect for a secondary role, not a playing character.
Her voice sounded better in S1 because you can actually tell when she was scared, happy, sad, or excited. In S2 they did a good job with her… more facial movements, but you couldn't really tell if she was happy or sad depending on her voice. I still don't agree that she got enough screen time though. They should've developed her way more in S2.
Uh yes, there have been other people who have stepped in to stand up for you, but being as how I have said something negative about Clementine, it was going to happen.
Uh yes, there have been other people who have stepped in to stand up for you, but being as how I have said something negative about Clementine, it was going to happen.
I didn't hate playing as her. But as I said, she was written to be unrealistic. The walker fight in the shed should've taken way more effort tbh. They should've made it way more difficult to kill it, considering we're in an 11 year olds shoes. She should've struggled a lot more in that fight.
I feel they tried to make her too mature. Like she was 18 or something. She was what 11? 12? She's still a girl. Her being able to for examp… morele kill that walker in the shed is very unrealistic. I know she learnt lesson from Lee but when she shoved the walker with the rake, really? The size of that walker was man handled by a little girl? That's why I said, she should've had a similar role in S1, with a different player character. Clementine is perfect for a secondary role, not a playing character.
It's not just the walker in the shed, before the bridge scene, looks suggest he will kill the big one, you can select Clementine to kill the big one and if it was realistic, she would've been killed straight away but no she does it pretty easy. I can't take a 11 year old killing full grown walkers seriously.
I didn't hate playing as her. But as I said, she was written to be unrealistic. The walker fight in the shed should've taken way more effort… more tbh. They should've made it way more difficult to kill it, considering we're in an 11 year olds shoes. She should've struggled a lot more in that fight.
It's not just the walker in the shed, before the bridge scene, looks suggest he will kill the big one, you can select Clementine to kill the… more big one and if it was realistic, she would've been killed straight away but no she does it pretty easy. I can't take a 11 year old killing full grown walkers seriously.
But who were Walter and Clementine talking about most of the time? You know, besides those 5 minutes that lead to Nick's physical or spiritual death? I think I might have made a mistake then, more than half was a bit exaggerated. But he definitely got close to half in episode 2.
I wouldn't necessarily call interaction with Clementine as taking over the episode more like plot development. Considering how, Kenny's problem were the biggest.
But you still haven't answered one my older questions, how was Clementine just as bad Kenny? That's not even close.
I wouldn't say Kenny got that much. When he arrived half way of episode 2, you could still talk the group and the new people, Walter had mor… moree important scenes then Kenny, Carvers group came a long and then they got more time. Episode 3 wasn't just about Kenny. It was exploring Carvers character, his interest in Clementine, Luke deserting the group and then coming back, Mike, Jane and Bonnie, Wasn't all about Kenny.
Amid the ruins, Jane took over that episode. Kenny really only had the baby being born, his depression with Sarita and having a go at Clementine from which Bonnie told her to go annoy him. Jane all of a sudden was the big deal and trying to fix Sarah after Carlo's death, more important then Kenny in that episode.
Episode 5 is when yes Kenny was getting a lot more time but they killed Luke off and then Mike and Bonnie left with Arvo so blame the writing part for that one.
Clementine asked about Kenny because she was curious about him. After that, it was focused on Matthew and what happened to him and then as you said Nick's situation. Also, when Bonnie arrives lying about her position, Walter is more vocal in that scene then Kenny was.
There was other plot development when Kenny was there like Alvin and Rebecca's bond even though we knew Alvin wasn't the father, Nick dealing with what happened to Matthew. Obviously every group member wasn't being developed at the time, but there was more then just Kenny.
I explained to you already but if I have to keep repeating myself. Clementine was already a well established character heading into S2. We needed the time to develop the new characters. When Lee was introduced in a new day, The writing had Lee as the major character, but the other characters were all given plenty of time to develop. You claim that when Kenny came, it ruined the season, If they didn't have all that remains soley on Clementine and instead did what they did in a new day, then the new characters would've been developed properly. Even in harms way, Kenny is only a minor role compared to Clementine until he gets bashed by Carver but everything is around Clementine. Kenny killing Carver had nothing to do with Kenny, it was to see if you wanted to let Clementine watch or not. IN Amid the ruins, Kenny has no where near the screen hogging as Clementine does. In fact with all those Jane/Clementine scenes, I forgot about Kenny. It was only until the last episode that he started getting major screen time but you can blame the writers for killing of Luke and ditching Bonnie, Mike and Arvo. Kenny was well established as well it had nothing to do with him being overshawdoing the new characters, it was to do with Clementine being giving to much time when SHE shoudlve made way for the new characters which in the end, made them suffer and had no chance to develop as good as when Lee was the player character. That's why she is worse then Kenny.
Now, you can answer my question you didn't answer. You're writing clearly indicates that had it not been for Kenny, in your mind, you probably would've thought that Luke would've been at the end. Fair ?
Walter had more important scenes then Kenny
But who were Walter and Clementine talking about most of the time? You know, besides those 5 … moreminutes that lead to Nick's physical or spiritual death? I think I might have made a mistake then, more than half was a bit exaggerated. But he definitely got close to half in episode 2.
I wouldn't necessarily call interaction with Clementine as taking over the episode more like plot development. Considering how, Kenny's problem were the biggest.
But you still haven't answered one my older questions, how was Clementine just as bad Kenny? That's not even close.
Comments
Extend the episodes (2 hrs each minimum),
hub areas and
fleshed out character relationships
The reason season 1 was so good was because of the connection between Clem and Lee. As much as I liked season 2 none of the relationships felt as strong as that. Not saying season 3 needs a father-daughter type bond, it just has to be as powerful as Clem and Lee's.
[removed]
Says the person who keeps on saying "bye" "I'm done" but keeps replying and says they aren't running away? Yes, that makes you an idiot.
if I have a biased opinion, what does that make yours? I admit Kenny stole the spotlight in some aspects, yet you can't admit Clementine did when it's been proven to you that she destroyed the cabin groups chance to develop in all that remains. Because after that they had no hope, Kenny came, Carver came, then they all got slaughtered for a body count, some in stupid ways (Nick, Sarah, Luke).
Guys please stop arguing! Most of the writing and all character development was very poor in season 2. They should and could have developed the characters more and if the episodes were as long as season 1 they could have but they were poor and short! The fact we could hardy interact with any of the characters was a problem too. Whenever you could talk to someone, it just virtually chooses the dialogue for us, we didn't get to ask the characters anything. They didn't give us that freedom.
But anyway lets just drop the arguments about this
Exactly. Season 2 was very poor from a writing standpoint. It's the negligence of certain people who don't choose to accept what you've said and instead they blame certain characters when we can all agree it was everything. It's when people won't admit something was the causes of a negative impact is when Ii either get them to admit it, or they stop replying because they know its true.
Maybe so but everyone have different opinions and you can't force anyone to change that. I'm a Kenny fan and no one is going to stop me being a fan or change my opinions on things. Both of you should stop arguing and respect each others views. You don't have to accept opinions but do respect them
If you're going to say this to one of us, you should say it to him or her. I said It doesn't matter what happens, opinion vs opinion won't result in a winner respecting him/her opinion. When they responded, they said "biased opinion". If anyone needs lesson on respecting someone's opinion it's that person, not me.
I'm willing to say a lot of things about her actually.
Then stop talking.
the believable and logical way the scenario would have worked is if jane kicked the door down, the second a grown adult told a small child to break down a door is when it went stupid, it doesn't matter that clementines method of breaking down the door was ridiculous
Lee got a good amount of time alone when he was in the sewers. I wouldnt know for sure unless I measure, but its proabably comparable. Still, this isnt a competiton between Lee and Clem. The first season wasnt all about Lee. His focus was to take care of Clementine so in a way she shared the spotlight and thats what we expected. The second season was supposed to be about Clementine surviving. We got that way before the game came out with the "I am Clementine" campaign. It is supposed to focus on her, so those scenes where she is alone figuring things out are needed. In fact, once I got past losing Omid and Christa, I thought those scenes held a lot of promise. I wanted to see what it would take for a small girl to survive alone in this unforgiving world. Thats what I thought we were going to get.
Instead, she was introduced to a new group not long after. Okay, fine. Thats realistic. It would be hard for Clementine to be alone for long. So they switched to Clementine being seen as a dangerous outsider, and trying to convince the others to take her in. Okay, that is still an interesting premise, plus we did see Clementine using her wits and will to take care of herself in the shed. We got to know a bit about the cabin group but the focus was not on them. We even got to like some of them and dislike others in that short amount of time. Off to a good enough start.
The next episodes would have been a great opportunity for Clem, and us, to really get to know the cabin group, work with them, and build a story around them, but Clem still should have been the main focus. It makes sense as she is the playable character, and therefore us, the player. Instead, Kenny comes back into the story and it becomes all about his drama. Clementine gets pushed aside for him. The Carver story becomes about him. A baby is born and given to him. The game ends with Clementine being forced to choose between a life with him or without him. Clementine, imo, stopped being the star of her own story and it became Kenny's story. She was supposed to be the focus of season two, but Kenny took over. I firmly believe that if Kenny had not been reintroduced into the story, then we would have gotten a lot more focus on the cabineers.
Now, what I get from you is that you seem to hate Clementine and resent every moment she's onscreen. Is that fair to say? Thats fine if you dont like the character but the second season, from what we understood, was supposed to be about her survival story. The cabin group shouldnt have take precidence over her, they should have supported her story. In some ways, that was lacking, but it wasnt Clementine's fault as a character. I wanted to see more development of the group. There's so much I wanted to know about all of them. Unfortunally, most of them got killed off so fast we didnt really get that. Im hoping that in season three we will get to live with the characters a little longer, and get to know and like them more.
Maybe people wouldnt have so much of a problem with Clem doing everything if an adult was with her. She could still be the playable character, but sharing her burdens with someone else. Like, for instance, someone going with her into that cabin instead of her kicking the door down by herself. Spilled milk at this point but I did like playing as Clem and still think it could have worked much better.
Guys, holy shit. Every opinion is biased, that's the point. If you guys are really getting a kick out of this then just PM each other instead of filling this thread with an argument that's clearly going nowhere.
i think the problem was that they didn't write a story for a child protagonist, they wrote a story for a generic protagonist then had to sort of work around the child part.
like when they were thinking of ideas as to what scenarios could happen in the game and how the story would work and they thought "a child wouldn't/couldn't do this" they should have scrapped the idea, not just figured out contrived reason why a child does it, and the same goes for the overall arc of the story.
it just seemed like they went with the "but she's the protagonist" excuse way to often, instead of rethinking or coming up with new ideas.
Christa. Nuff said.
Go on then, enlighten me.....
PMing wouldn't be ideal, because nohatclem only does it public so people can stick up for him/her, PMing there'd be no one to stand up for them.
She was pretty boring and bland in S2. She lacked personality, and I can see why the majority of people don't want to play as her again. She's written to be unrealistic and she has a monotone voice. She sounds sleepy all the time.
Who's sticking up for me?
Funny how you mention the sewers, yet you failed to realise that I was comparing Lee's screen time in the first episode of S1 to Clementines in S2's first episode. Everytime Lee wander around i.e at hershels farm or inside the pharmacy, he always was talking to people. The main focus was him yes, but every other character wasn't left out unless you decide to ignore them (though on Hershels, you have to talk to the other people) where as in all that remains, Clementine has scenes of being just her, i.e the camp fire, walking around the next day, finding sam, walking around more after Sam dies and trying to find supplies for her arm. But if you want to mention the sewers then okay. Lee had a lone time in that yes. I just watched 2 play throughs of the scene from Lee falling in the sewer to meeting Vernon and his group,it takes around 7 minutes. NOW, I watched the scene from Clementine waking up the next day after losing Christa, to meeting Luke and Pete ready for it? 16 minutes. And the funny part is around every corner goes for 2 hours+ and Lee had that sewer scene for less then 10 minutes of a 2 hour episode where as Clementine had almost 20 minutes of that one scene in a episode that is less then 90 minutes long. In fact lets dig a bit more, Lets take all the a lone scenes of Clementine in all that remains and see how much time there is left shall we? Her a lone time is half the episode length. Half that episode is all about her, and that scene with her trying to find supplies can go for up to 20 minutes.
Season one dealt with a lot more then just Clementine, it had Lee's past, how he dealt with what he did. Kenny and his family, Lily and Larry, Saving Carley or Doug had different impacts, Ben's stuff ups and how you reacted to them, Chucks life advice for Clementine, Christa's pregnancy. There was a lot more to Season One then just Clementine.
Yes but not to overshadow the new characters. Have the scene with her running away from the guy chasing her but not just walking around a forest doing nothing, that's not showing what she learnt, unless Lee teached her how to walk.
If they kept her a lone even more, then you might as well throw the cabin group and just have her for all the episodes. Yes using her wits like how a child would be curious as to what is around, funny how that hole she made was there to be made though wasn't it? Okay, who did Clementine bond with ? Luke, yes. Nick, no he was always in the shadows. Pete? dies in the same episode or start of the next. Rebecca? is a bitch then apparently shes nice unlike Larry who stays true to his roots, Carlos? Is only there for the end and doesn't even get developed, he either thanks her or yells at her. Alvin? the juicebox was more popular then him.
No she shouldn't. She shoudlve been helping the new characters to develop so the player can get attached to them like S1. Lee was the player, and he was never written as a screen time hogger like Clementine and look how effective he was. How does the Carver story become about him? Carver is more interested in Clementine then him. He bashes Kenny because it wasn't going to effect Clementine more which lead to one of my favourite parts where she gets clocked on the back of the head by Troy (lol). Kenny killing Carver was only to see if people wanted Clementine to stay or watch, like when Lee kills the st john boys, it's all about if you'd do it infront of Clementine (screen hogger at it again).
Actually it was because he had experience with a baby, do you think the others would have been suitable? And Clementine has scenes with the kid to,
You can actually choose to not be with Kenny at the end but it was suppose to be a sad moment but I said Luke should've been there because then it could've been more heartfelt if he was to die instead of Jane but blame the writers for that.
That;s your opinion, I think personally if they had done what a new day did, develop the characters properly in all that remains, then they wouldn't of made Kenny "overshadow" the new group.
I never hated her before S2, I liked her character but was never big on her. I started hating her when she ditched the group to be with the stranger and ended up killing Lee, Kenny(until S2) and Ben if saved. Also, she is always the golden child, never does a foot wrong because she's a little girl. Ben can indirectly cause the death of players and be hated for it, but Clementine can do the same and indirectly cause the death of the playable character and that's ok because she cried? Double standards much? Season 2 I wanted to feel the same feeling I got when I played S1 with the emotion of how I felt with the characters, instead, I ended up resenting it because I was sick of always having it focused on her. I enjoyed Kenny being back because it was a character I had already developed a connection with. I couldn't get a connection with the cabin group because they didn't get enough time. it was all Clementine.
That's what I was trying to explain to you. If Clementine interacted with anyone I/e Pete or Luke, it would be for nothing, Pete dies at the end of ATR or the start of the 2nd episode, Luke is changed so many times from a nice guy, to leaving the group, to having sex with Jane and not caring, how is Luke's change of character like a woman on her period good development? And don't get me started on Nick.
Season 3 will be a lot better then S2 if they put their time and effort on just the game and not any other ones and put Clementine as the main character besides the playable character. If they bring a new play character and have her the 2nd important character, then i'll be happy and I can live with that, or get rid of Clementine.
She shouldn't be boring if she got that amount of screen time. She should never of been the player character, she shoudlve been how she was with Lee. The way her character shifted from S1 to S2 was more worse. Her voice sounds like she has something up her ass.
The other Clementine fangirls. If you were to PM, none of them would be able to step in, I mean you did thank that other person for stating their opinion to me. Wouldn't be able to do that if it was Private.
I'm talking about this discussion. No one jumped in. It was just me and you the whole time.
Her voice sounded better in S1 because you can actually tell when she was scared, happy, sad, or excited. In S2 they did a good job with her facial movements, but you couldn't really tell if she was happy or sad depending on her voice. I still don't agree that she got enough screen time though. They should've developed her way more in S2.
The only thing that was questionable was Omid's death. At first I thought they were going to do season 2 about Christa and Clementine, but I guess not. I thought episode 1 was good, not the best episode ever, but I like it. Christa and Clementine get separated and Clem comes across a new group who's very reluctant to let her in.
Besides, that was just 1 episode. Kenny got 3 plus more than half of episode 2
I wouldn't say Kenny got that much. When he arrived half way of episode 2, you could still talk the group and the new people, Walter had more important scenes then Kenny, Carvers group came a long and then they got more time. Episode 3 wasn't just about Kenny. It was exploring Carvers character, his interest in Clementine, Luke deserting the group and then coming back, Mike, Jane and Bonnie, Wasn't all about Kenny.
Amid the ruins, Jane took over that episode. Kenny really only had the baby being born, his depression with Sarita and having a go at Clementine from which Bonnie told her to go annoy him. Jane all of a sudden was the big deal and trying to fix Sarah after Carlo's death, more important then Kenny in that episode.
Episode 5 is when yes Kenny was getting a lot more time but they killed Luke off and then Mike and Bonnie left with Arvo so blame the writing part for that one.
I feel they tried to make her too mature. Like she was 18 or something. She was what 11? 12? She's still a girl. Her being able to for example kill that walker in the shed is very unrealistic. I know she learnt lesson from Lee but when she shoved the walker with the rake, really? The size of that walker was man handled by a little girl? That's why I said, she should've had a similar role in S1, with a different player character. Clementine is perfect for a secondary role, not a playing character.
Uh yes, there have been other people who have stepped in to stand up for you, but being as how I have said something negative about Clementine, it was going to happen.
The quick deaths of Omid and Christa. S2 felt too much like you were starting a whole new story with new people, rather than continuing the old one
Who? I don't need anyone to stand for me.
I didn't hate playing as her. But as I said, she was written to be unrealistic. The walker fight in the shed should've taken way more effort tbh. They should've made it way more difficult to kill it, considering we're in an 11 year olds shoes. She should've struggled a lot more in that fight.
Who did you go and say thank you to on this thread?
It's not just the walker in the shed, before the bridge scene, looks suggest he will kill the big one, you can select Clementine to kill the big one and if it was realistic, she would've been killed straight away but no she does it pretty easy. I can't take a 11 year old killing full grown walkers seriously.
Yeah, killing walkers should've been harder.
I just said thank because I agreed with what they had to say. She/he didn't stand up for me. They stated their opinion.
Walter had more important scenes then Kenny
But who were Walter and Clementine talking about most of the time? You know, besides those 5 minutes that lead to Nick's physical or spiritual death? I think I might have made a mistake then, more than half was a bit exaggerated. But he definitely got close to half in episode 2.
I wouldn't necessarily call interaction with Clementine as taking over the episode more like plot development. Considering how, Kenny's problem were the biggest.
But you still haven't answered one my older questions, how was Clementine just as bad Kenny? That's not even close.
Which is why I said had I PM you, then she wouldn't of been able to come and try to back your opinion up would she?
She stated her opinion, I didn't ask her to come in and help me.
Clementine asked about Kenny because she was curious about him. After that, it was focused on Matthew and what happened to him and then as you said Nick's situation. Also, when Bonnie arrives lying about her position, Walter is more vocal in that scene then Kenny was.
There was other plot development when Kenny was there like Alvin and Rebecca's bond even though we knew Alvin wasn't the father, Nick dealing with what happened to Matthew. Obviously every group member wasn't being developed at the time, but there was more then just Kenny.
I explained to you already but if I have to keep repeating myself. Clementine was already a well established character heading into S2. We needed the time to develop the new characters. When Lee was introduced in a new day, The writing had Lee as the major character, but the other characters were all given plenty of time to develop. You claim that when Kenny came, it ruined the season, If they didn't have all that remains soley on Clementine and instead did what they did in a new day, then the new characters would've been developed properly. Even in harms way, Kenny is only a minor role compared to Clementine until he gets bashed by Carver but everything is around Clementine. Kenny killing Carver had nothing to do with Kenny, it was to see if you wanted to let Clementine watch or not. IN Amid the ruins, Kenny has no where near the screen hogging as Clementine does. In fact with all those Jane/Clementine scenes, I forgot about Kenny. It was only until the last episode that he started getting major screen time but you can blame the writers for killing of Luke and ditching Bonnie, Mike and Arvo. Kenny was well established as well it had nothing to do with him being overshawdoing the new characters, it was to do with Clementine being giving to much time when SHE shoudlve made way for the new characters which in the end, made them suffer and had no chance to develop as good as when Lee was the player character. That's why she is worse then Kenny.
Now, you can answer my question you didn't answer. You're writing clearly indicates that had it not been for Kenny, in your mind, you probably would've thought that Luke would've been at the end. Fair ?