For all of the negativity directed towards TWDS2...
...the first scene between Clementine and Carver in episode 2 is still flat-out amazing. The tension, the suspense, the character interplay - the sense of being an unarmed child against a dangerous (and probably psychotic) adult - is the most thrilling sequence in a video game I've ever come across.
I had to get that off my chest.
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Let me be the first to agree with you, then. That scene is hands down one of the best of the entire series. Hell, I'd say every scene with Clementine and Carver (IE in his office) are fantastic, even if there's only a few of them.
I actually prefer the one where he and Clem are in his office in Episode 3, but that is also a great scene. I really did love the interactions between Carver and Clementine a lot.
I thought that scene was pretty stupid, Carver debating that throwing a guy off a roof isn't murder. His "it ain't murder if it's for the better of the community" was lame imo.
I liked that scene in season 2, but it wasn't that good. It was the first time I noticed that our dialogue options didn't really effect the conversation, because even if you're silent he'll still say. "I thought you said no one was here,"
Lmao, didn't know that.
Opinions. To me, it provides insight into what the character of Carver is like. To him, he's the good guy, killing Reggie was for the betterment and safety of his people. In his mind, he's the protector of his flock, and as a result, he's become so disillusioned that he beliefs everything he says. We know it's not true, but to him, because he's put himself in his own little world, he thinks it is, characters like The Governor or Negan have done similar things in the past. That's also why he continues to believe that Rebecca's baby is his and not Alvin's, he's convinced himself to belief that that is the only outcome. It is because of this, along with the fact that no one will challenge him, that he is able to get away with stuff like this over and over again. However, Clementine can challenge him, you are given options to actually stick up to Carver, something that many people are afraid to do. Carver sees that, he knows that, despite what he's done, Clementine isn't backing down, and that's what he seems to respect. During the conversation, he brings up their first interaction at the cabin, how she was scared, but continued to look him in the eye and not back down, Clementine's doing the same thing now in his office. He sees that, despite Clem's young age, she's learned not to show how scared she actually is, not let her fear overcome her like it has with Sarah. As a result, it makes her stronger and more able to make difficult decisions that others couldn't make, and that's why he sees himself in her, and to be honest, he can be right. Some of the decisions you make, both before and after, can prove Carver right, would you rather leave the weak and helpless behind to die in order to protect the others, which is what Carver wants, or try and help them any way you can, which is something that Lee would want. Who do you want your Clem to be like, I believe that was one of the main themes of Season 2, and the fact that your Clem can, possibly, become a bit like Carver makes this scene all the more powerful.
Yeah its a good scene, Albeit I think clementine has the issue of being too at ease. Hes an unfamiliar adult and she just keeps bad mouthing him or being rude.
Great scene. One bit I never really understood was the knife thing though. Carver gets there first whether you go for it or not, then just calmly puts it back in the draw and the moment passes. I thought it was a sign of trust between him and Clementine but obviously not considering later scenes. Maybe he knew that Clementine was a little scared of him and put the knife back just to put her at ease.
In all honesty, I think the only general consensus anyone can unanimously come to about S2 at this point, is that there is no general consensus. It's just a controversial, polarizing season. You have a group of people that like it, and a group that don't. These two sides commonly butt heads, and every now and again good discussions pop up, but unfortunately, the lot of them tend to devolve into roundabout arguments where no one can agree on anything. And when positive things are brought up, they're either driven back down and replaced by something else, or if they're lucky, they get some time in the limelight where people seem to agree. But as it goes, nothing gold can stay, so eventually it goes back to same old same old.
It's like the San Andreas fault just formed straight down the middle of this place at some point. No one seems to be united in any positive scene/element of this season these days. At least on this forum in particular, with all due respect.
I thought most of the scenes were great. Clementine stitching her own arm for example. So badass.
That's one aspect to Carver's character which I thought was well-done. Despite being a monster, he saw something unique about Clem, which very few others in the series have been able to do. Whether Clem embraces the same darkness Carver embraced, or turns away from it, is up to the player.
Honestly, with as much shit as I give the game, I have to agree. It was a perfect way to introduce Carver's character, as well as show what he and his group were capable of by simple small talk and intimidation. But that scene is always overshadowed for me by the thought of, "They all could have been so awesome, but instead they were reduced to canon-fodder."
EDIT: I also loved the lodge scene where Carver and his group attack everyone, that was a great way to show his character as well.
Despite my ill feelings towards the second season, I do agree whole-heartedly. I enjoyed the interaction and liked her first real look at someone like Carver. A House Divided remains my third favorite in the entire game series
Very good arguments, @MetallicaRules.
That would actually be determinant; Lee can choose not to help Duck nor Shawn at Hershel's farm; he can choose to leave David at the woods; he can choose to let Beatrice suffer in order to win some time; he can leave Lilly at the side of the road and; he can choose to let Ben die. That doesn't exactly prove him as a kind and selfless man.
True, but even if he does all that, Lee was the one that took care of Clementine, a helpless and young survivor who couldn't defend or protect herself against the walkers and helped train her into a survivor, that isn't determinant. He took care of her, looked out for her, and never abandoned her, that's what I mean when I said that's what Lee would want Clem to do, never abandon someone just because they are helpless or a possible detriment to the group, help them instead to become stronger.
I think that being selfless and kind really is at his core. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done what you said. It's just that, for a narrow amount of players, he was a "badass" and selfish character who only looked out for himself and for Clem.
lol.
"I thought you said nobody was here."
"Bitch, I didn't say shit."
A House Divided as a whole was the best episode of Season 2.
To be completely fair, that has existed since the very first episode of S1. You just chose the 'right' options that held up the facade better than the others. S1 hid it better than S2, that's for sure, but it's still there regardless. Go back and try doing a silent run, and you'll see just how patchy and awkward scenes become. They're still trying to tell a story at the end of the day, and there's only so much player input you can give before it starts to work against the narrative. Especially when it is readily apparent that the game is designed with the intention of the player speaking. 75% of the time, choosing silence will make the entire scene fairly awkward, and there's so many instances where you can tell the game's struggling to work with/around your choice of silence. The show must go on, it just has to find a way to get things back on track as discreetly as it can. And that isn't an easy task.
Besides, all of the options you can choose when talking to Carver (besides silence) imply that you're alone, even if they don't directly say it. The "I'm alone" option speaks for itself. The "We have a big group" has Clementine mention that they'll be back soon, implying they're out. The "Just me and dad" has her mention that he's out of the house. So Telltale covered themselves fairly well, actually. Most dialogue options are broad enough to flow into the following scenes relatively seamlessly, with certain crucial details either being said directly, or otherwise insinuated. Doesn't excuse the silence option, though.
Couldn't have said it better
I prefer No Going Back, but AHD is a close second.
No Going Back is probably my 2nd favorite next to A House Divided.
I personally agree, the character dynamics between Carver and Clementine were both suspenseful and insightful of Carver's character, I personally still loved Season 2 though, it might get allot of negativity now on the message boards but oh well, opinions are opinions, so long as we accept each others' opinions things should be fine
I still think there were quite allot of good scenes in Season 2, it just more so failed to hide the illusion of choice in terms of dialogue and it lacked character development for main group members in my opinion but overall it was still a great experience, I mean Season 2 is probably the biggest topic on here.
yeah but it lost it's charm after the second play through because you know what happens to Carver.
Despite some awkward parts in that scene, it was pretty interesting some of the choices you could make. Referring to Carley as your name or mentioning Clementine's dad (Ed).
It was also a bit of a mind game when trying to find out what Carver knows while he's trying to figure out what you know.