While I understand many don't see this the same way I do, I am talking about immediate survival. Realizing all the terrible and ungodly things we as living humans do to each other every day, then amplify that if something like a real zombie apocalypse happened.. Can you even imagine what terrors we would have to endure just to take another breath or protect our loved ones? So, in this extreme situation it will require extreme measures at least up until a time where one could relax and attempt to live out the rest of their lives in some form of safety and comfort. Then yes, it would be reasonable to allow your guard down to a degree.. Just remember, there will always be someone that need's what you have and may be willing to do 'anything' it takes to get it. So, will you maintain your 'humanity' and good will towards men and offer assistance, hoping they don't just slit your throat and take it all anyways, or will you draw your gun, tell them to leave and hope they don't return with help, or, will you just shoot, eliminate any potential threat?
Also, Do you really believe that once you start down that "Dark Side" path (yeah yeah I know) that there is no return? I don't believe so.. I think the humanity within us is in our nature and though we may put it aside for a long time to focus on surviving, there is still the possibility, given the right circumstances, that anyone could relax and allow more emotions and truly begin to 'live' again. Maybe a few year, have a safe and secure home, a lifetime of supplies, meet someone, have a relationship, etc. Of course you'll have some demons and a past, who wouldn't after surviving all this, but you are in the end, still alive and able to carry on with a life. I think that is worth it. Or maybe it's just not in my nature to Give-Up, or say, I did the right thing so if I die, I die with a clear conscoiuse. Fuck that. Dead is dead. I for one will do anything, and everything within my abilities to protect me and mine regardless of how it may seem to anyone else. Why? Anyone else isnt me. Anyone else who is willing to kill me wont care about my morals or values. If i've lost my humanity or if i'm a saint. you cant eat those, they could take my stash of peaches though, rape my wife and daughters and kill my dog with a tent steak.
Point is, in a ZA there will be people out there far worse than me and the only way to survive is to get into that mindset of "Him or Me".
No more coddling, no worrying about feelings, right or wrong or morals. Live or die.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't really wrap my … morehead around this mindset. It just seems pointless to me. When you let the world drag you down to that level where you're more or less running on instinct and the singular will/goal to survive, then what is the point of going on? Why do you even bother? At that point, you're pretty much just sitting around waiting for the day you die. At that point, I don't know if you could really describe yourself as being 'alive'. You're biologically alive, sure, but just about every other part of you is dead. At that point, the only thing that is really separating you from the zombies is strictly biological; blood in your heart, blood in your brain. But otherwise? You're both empty husks of your former selves, being driven by a singular purpose, marching forward, watching everything and everyone around you drop dead, j… [view original content]
Although I love Bonnie myself and have defended her several times before, I don't think it's right to call people Bonnie 'haters', it's just more unnecessary labeling and also, just like every other character the things she's done are subjectively reasonable and somewhat justifiable or at least understandable, however, you can't excuse that Bonnie:
Killed Dee - Accident or not, Dee died because of Bonnie, however her actions are understandable because she didn't know it was Dee and she was being chased by the Pit Stop Group, Dee also tries to kill Bonnie if she doesn't attack Dee first.
Determinantly Left Leland - Bonnie talks about how she left Leland for being too overprotective, yes, Bonnie has every right, just as any survivor, to leave her group or pair if she chooses to, however, Leland is the reason we know she's made it this far and she decides too leave him after she kills Dee, causing him to become overprotective and this is if Bonnie lies, making her decision to leave Leland a pretty mean one.
Bonnie tells Carver about the Cabin - She may have not intended for things to happen the way they did but Bonnie did absolutely nothing about it at the time, she may not have been able to since she'd put herself at risk but she still holds allot of responsibility for what happened. Bonnie telling Carver about the Cabin technically lead to every future death because this decision of hers is the reason the group were imprisoned in Howe's and even in the future, she only says she'll help them 'tonight', which is when there's a huge horde of Walkers, yeah, she doesn't have to help them but you can't say she's not at least part of the reason the group got into their situation in the first place.
Bonnie tries to save Luke/convinces Clementine to save Luke - Regardless of which, Bonnie is putting Luke in danger and along with him either herself or Clementine, it's understandable that she was panicking and her emotions for Luke may have clouded her judgement but you can't deny that Bonnie breaking the ice caused Luke to die along with determinantly herself or applied peer pressure on Clementine caused Luke to die and Clementine to almost drown, however, Clementine can be blamed for trying to help Luke and not trying to stop Bonnie as well. Later on, if Clementine doesn't try to save Luke, Bonnie gets pissed at Clementine and averts the blame onto her, despite Bonnie being the one who causes Luke to die, accidentally or not, she can get Luke killed. She's only nice to Clementine if she risks her own life and causes Luke to drown.
Leaving with all the supplies - Bonnie chooses to join up with Mike and Arvo to escape from the entirety of the group, of course, she has every right to leave if she wanted to and it's survival after all but you can't say what she chooses to do isn't at least morally bad, she leaves with the last bag of supplies, practically screwing the rest of the group, if Bonnie is pissed at Clementine she even tries to get Mike to leave her and practically tried to let her die.
Every character in this game can be blamed for at least one action that caused something to happen, doesn't mean that character is completely guilty or their actions are unreasonable, they're only humans remember, humans make mistakes and not everyone can control their emotion or react in an according way to a certain situation, whilst Bonnie has done allot of bad things, just like characters such as Kenny and Jane, all their subjectively bad actions aren't completely unjustifiable or unreasonable.
Yep. I think some players are too harsh on Bonnie and Jane in particular whilst willing to set aside Kenny's equally bad actions. Honestly I thought Kenny was harsh and unyielding and starting to lose it in season one. He has his reasons too. There just seems to be a lot of bias in Kenny's favour. You have to wonder what would have happened had Luke survived. I changed the title btw. Hope that's better. :-)
Although I love Bonnie myself and have defended her several times before, I don't think it's right to call people Bonnie 'haters', it's just… more more unnecessary labeling and also, just like every other character the things she's done are subjectively reasonable and somewhat justifiable or at least understandable, however, you can't excuse that Bonnie:
Killed Dee - Accident or not, Dee died because of Bonnie, however her actions are understandable because she didn't know it was Dee and she was being chased by the Pit Stop Group, Dee also tries to kill Bonnie if she doesn't attack Dee first.
Determinantly Left Leland - Bonnie talks about how she left Leland for being too overprotective, yes, Bonnie has every right, just as any survivor, to leave her group or pair if she chooses to, however, Leland is the reason we know she's made it this far and she decides too leave him after she kills Dee, causing him to become overprotective and this is i… [view original content]
Firstly, good on you for changing the title, even though you didn't have to at least it may simmer the fire in the Forums down a bit
And yeah I do think that the way some individuals talk about Bonnie or other characters can be harsh at times, although it's not the easiest thing to do to be unbiased about a character, I think if Luke lived, the group may have stuck together, at least Bonnie wouldn't have a reason to leave and Luke may have prevented Kenny from continuously treating Arvo badly.
Yep. I think some players are too harsh on Bonnie and Jane in particular whilst willing to set aside Kenny's equally bad actions. Honestly I… more thought Kenny was harsh and unyielding and starting to lose it in season one. He has his reasons too. There just seems to be a lot of bias in Kenny's favour. You have to wonder what would have happened had Luke survived. I changed the title btw. Hope that's better. :-)
One thing I do know for certain, is that people are not always what they seem. I've had people in my life who have appeared to be friends, but in the long run their actions showed otherwise.
So yeah, Dee might have been nice to Bonnie, but that doesn't mean it was genuine.
And if you remember, after Bonnie struck Dee, Dee blamed her for trying to steal her husband. She indirectly accused Bonnie of trying to steal her husband when arguing with Leland, and again after Bonnie whacked her - going so far as to accuse Bonnie of murdering her for her husband.
I agree. I think Dee was justified in feeling threatened. Did anyone wonder whether she knew it was Bonnie crouched behind the tractor thoug… moreh? Bc at one point Leland says "did you find her? (Bonnie)" maybe Dee knew who it was and decided to elimate the threat. A thought, though she seemed nice to Bonnie overall.
I don't have much sympathy for his wife to be honest. Maybe it depends on the player, but I told Bonnie to make it clear to the guy and his … morewife that there was nothing going on. If my wife was merely friendly with some old guy then i'd like to think i'd be ok with it. If I did think there was a chance that something going on then I wouldn't start an argument when we are on the road and walkers were about.
Comments
While I understand many don't see this the same way I do, I am talking about immediate survival. Realizing all the terrible and ungodly things we as living humans do to each other every day, then amplify that if something like a real zombie apocalypse happened.. Can you even imagine what terrors we would have to endure just to take another breath or protect our loved ones? So, in this extreme situation it will require extreme measures at least up until a time where one could relax and attempt to live out the rest of their lives in some form of safety and comfort. Then yes, it would be reasonable to allow your guard down to a degree.. Just remember, there will always be someone that need's what you have and may be willing to do 'anything' it takes to get it. So, will you maintain your 'humanity' and good will towards men and offer assistance, hoping they don't just slit your throat and take it all anyways, or will you draw your gun, tell them to leave and hope they don't return with help, or, will you just shoot, eliminate any potential threat?
Also, Do you really believe that once you start down that "Dark Side" path (yeah yeah I know) that there is no return? I don't believe so.. I think the humanity within us is in our nature and though we may put it aside for a long time to focus on surviving, there is still the possibility, given the right circumstances, that anyone could relax and allow more emotions and truly begin to 'live' again. Maybe a few year, have a safe and secure home, a lifetime of supplies, meet someone, have a relationship, etc. Of course you'll have some demons and a past, who wouldn't after surviving all this, but you are in the end, still alive and able to carry on with a life. I think that is worth it. Or maybe it's just not in my nature to Give-Up, or say, I did the right thing so if I die, I die with a clear conscoiuse. Fuck that. Dead is dead. I for one will do anything, and everything within my abilities to protect me and mine regardless of how it may seem to anyone else. Why? Anyone else isnt me. Anyone else who is willing to kill me wont care about my morals or values. If i've lost my humanity or if i'm a saint. you cant eat those, they could take my stash of peaches though, rape my wife and daughters and kill my dog with a tent steak.
Point is, in a ZA there will be people out there far worse than me and the only way to survive is to get into that mindset of "Him or Me".
Although I love Bonnie myself and have defended her several times before, I don't think it's right to call people Bonnie 'haters', it's just more unnecessary labeling and also, just like every other character the things she's done are subjectively reasonable and somewhat justifiable or at least understandable, however, you can't excuse that Bonnie:
Killed Dee - Accident or not, Dee died because of Bonnie, however her actions are understandable because she didn't know it was Dee and she was being chased by the Pit Stop Group, Dee also tries to kill Bonnie if she doesn't attack Dee first.
Determinantly Left Leland - Bonnie talks about how she left Leland for being too overprotective, yes, Bonnie has every right, just as any survivor, to leave her group or pair if she chooses to, however, Leland is the reason we know she's made it this far and she decides too leave him after she kills Dee, causing him to become overprotective and this is if Bonnie lies, making her decision to leave Leland a pretty mean one.
Bonnie tells Carver about the Cabin - She may have not intended for things to happen the way they did but Bonnie did absolutely nothing about it at the time, she may not have been able to since she'd put herself at risk but she still holds allot of responsibility for what happened. Bonnie telling Carver about the Cabin technically lead to every future death because this decision of hers is the reason the group were imprisoned in Howe's and even in the future, she only says she'll help them 'tonight', which is when there's a huge horde of Walkers, yeah, she doesn't have to help them but you can't say she's not at least part of the reason the group got into their situation in the first place.
Bonnie tries to save Luke/convinces Clementine to save Luke - Regardless of which, Bonnie is putting Luke in danger and along with him either herself or Clementine, it's understandable that she was panicking and her emotions for Luke may have clouded her judgement but you can't deny that Bonnie breaking the ice caused Luke to die along with determinantly herself or applied peer pressure on Clementine caused Luke to die and Clementine to almost drown, however, Clementine can be blamed for trying to help Luke and not trying to stop Bonnie as well. Later on, if Clementine doesn't try to save Luke, Bonnie gets pissed at Clementine and averts the blame onto her, despite Bonnie being the one who causes Luke to die, accidentally or not, she can get Luke killed. She's only nice to Clementine if she risks her own life and causes Luke to drown.
Leaving with all the supplies - Bonnie chooses to join up with Mike and Arvo to escape from the entirety of the group, of course, she has every right to leave if she wanted to and it's survival after all but you can't say what she chooses to do isn't at least morally bad, she leaves with the last bag of supplies, practically screwing the rest of the group, if Bonnie is pissed at Clementine she even tries to get Mike to leave her and practically tried to let her die.
Every character in this game can be blamed for at least one action that caused something to happen, doesn't mean that character is completely guilty or their actions are unreasonable, they're only humans remember, humans make mistakes and not everyone can control their emotion or react in an according way to a certain situation, whilst Bonnie has done allot of bad things, just like characters such as Kenny and Jane, all their subjectively bad actions aren't completely unjustifiable or unreasonable.
Yep. I think some players are too harsh on Bonnie and Jane in particular whilst willing to set aside Kenny's equally bad actions. Honestly I thought Kenny was harsh and unyielding and starting to lose it in season one. He has his reasons too. There just seems to be a lot of bias in Kenny's favour. You have to wonder what would have happened had Luke survived. I changed the title btw. Hope that's better. :-)
Firstly, good on you for changing the title, even though you didn't have to at least it may simmer the fire in the Forums down a bit
And yeah I do think that the way some individuals talk about Bonnie or other characters can be harsh at times, although it's not the easiest thing to do to be unbiased about a character, I think if Luke lived, the group may have stuck together, at least Bonnie wouldn't have a reason to leave and Luke may have prevented Kenny from continuously treating Arvo badly.
thanks for changing the title
i agree with you
How is it Luke's fault his leg got shot?
had the worst 400 days story, annoying in s2. she died in my playthrough.
He did move out of cover during the shootout.
One thing I do know for certain, is that people are not always what they seem. I've had people in my life who have appeared to be friends, but in the long run their actions showed otherwise.
So yeah, Dee might have been nice to Bonnie, but that doesn't mean it was genuine.
And if you remember, after Bonnie struck Dee, Dee blamed her for trying to steal her husband. She indirectly accused Bonnie of trying to steal her husband when arguing with Leland, and again after Bonnie whacked her - going so far as to accuse Bonnie of murdering her for her husband.
You might be surprised how you'd react if your wife all of a sudden started giving special attention to another guy - regardless of his age.