Holy Shit!
Norma's death in Episode 3 was fucking BRUTAL! Probably the most sick in the whole game!
I had to clutch my stomach afterwards
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Norma's death in Episode 3 was fucking BRUTAL! Probably the most sick in the whole game!
I had to clutch my stomach afterwards
Comments
I might be in the minority, but I still thought the second half of Episode 2 had more horrific moments than Episode 3. Still, though, that was a pretty brutal death.
I am utterly repulsed by seeing people not put her out of her misery before she is devored. Do they seriously believe that she deserved that, after everything we did to her and her colony?
EPISODE THREE: 'WHAT WE DON'T DESERVE'
And probably the most terrible and undeserved. I refuse to call Norma an antagonist.
Sam steals from her, is forgiven, steals again. Then we escape and burn her whole community. She comes back and tries to work things out peacefully, we proceed to kill her brother and eventually get her killed as well in a brutal and horrific way.
Who was really the vilain in this series? Randall? Sam? Michonne?
After all what did Norma do to us? The only bad thing she can do is kill Oak and even that is determinant! I felt way worse seeing her die than any of the other deaths.
I would've said Randall, but we now know that the Mobjack scavengers killed the previous inhabitants, and had Monroe on their scope. Sam said that they traded with them occasionally. I'm interested on hearing what you have to say about that.
I said "everything we did to her," actually.
I know. I was agreeing with you xD
Well you kill my friend than you fucked up big time
I thought you said that she let Oak go in your playthrough?
Not in the let her suffer playthrough
At first I didn't believe Norma but if we think about it, her story is the one that makes the most sense.
Randall is a maniac, sure, but he'd need help to do all that and knowing the Monroe residents none of them seemed like a maniac to me.
So yeah what they did to the scavengers was justified.
In the end Sam and Randall are the ones to blame for all this conflict. Sam for stealing (of course) and Randall for shooting John. Possibly Michonne if she burnt the community on purpose.
I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels that way. I don't feel she deserved that death at all. I've said it before but I don't think anyone deserves to die that way. Even if Norma was the most evil character in the series, I would still put her out of her misery.
I'll give her badass points and respect for managing to shoot the walker biting into her while a machete is lodged in her arm, though. That shit was cool.
The only genuinely villainous things Norma does is lure the walkers to the house with the flare gun (unless they were meant to be a signal for her men and not for the walkers), and when she can kill Oak and Zachary, the former for being impatient about the trade and the latter for betraying her.
But it didn't feel enough to justify the way she died, especially when the whole mess started because of Sam's actions and how Norma's community was destroyed because of her and Michonne, and yet we're supposed to side with Sam against Norma instead of just walking away.
It's like a combination of Brie and Sarita's (cut off arm) deaths. Strangely though, I felt more queezy at both Brie and Sarita's deaths, possibly because they seemed to live longer through being disemboweled/having an arm chopped off and eaten alive, even when you leave Norma to suffer. Also they deserved it less than Norma, though I agree I don't think Norma deserved it either.
I feel she's still an antagonist in the most literal aspect; she opposes the main characters. But outside of that, I'd say she's more like a protagonist-antagonist. You know, like Macduff in Macbeth or something like that, where while they count as the 'bad guy' of the story from the main character's perspective, they're really not doing anything bad or evil.
Look how diplomatic Norma was being. Seriously. She's willing to put the destruction of Monroe behind her, and even after we kill one of her people for killing one of ours, she lets it slide and considers them even. If she was just some generic bad guy, she wouldn't have gone to such lengths to avoid bloodshed. The death of Randall pushed her over the edge, and I can totally understand that. I mean, if Rick and another group were negotiating, and Carl ended up getting killed, he'd probably lose his shit and slaughter them, too.
I still stand by the belief that this was a good morally grey situation altogether. I don't feel that Norma or Monroe were fully demonized. This is all a giant shitstorm that erupted out of a simple misunderstanding. Sam might have stolen from them, but at the same time, she isn't fully in the wrong. Her reasons for doing so are still justifiable to some extent (wanting to help keep her family safe). Randall taking us hostage isn't fully in the wrong, either, since they have every reason to believe we're involved given the circumstances in which they found us (in the same room as Sam, at the same time as her, with a stolen bag of supplies). And Norma/Randall hunting us down is justified since we did burn their home down, whether intentionally or not. From an outsider's perspective, we're 3 people that wound up at these peoples' home, and then burned it down and escaped. Would you really want to let people like that go and possibly come back to finish the job later, or do it to someone else? Even Randall, who's without a doubt the most antagonistic character, still has reasons for his actions for the most part; in his eyes, we deserve everything we got coming to us for fucking over his home and his people.
I don't feel that Michonne was idolized/idealized in the series, either. You get enough options to try and avoid causing conflict. You can cooperate with Norma, you can try to leave peacefully, you can agree with Norma to try to bury the hatchet, and you get the ultimate choice to put her out of her misery, and there's a lot of subtext to that that I don't think people realize; it's a way of showing that despite everything that happened between the two of you, you have some level of respect and mercy for her, and chances are in her very last moments before you pull the trigger, the feeling was mutual.
The flare was meant to be a signal for her men. The walkers showing up wasn't the intent, or at least, having a whole herd of them show up wasn't. Her people kill off the approaching walkers. If the plan was to have them swarm the house, they wouldn't pick them off and keep them at bay.
For me, I thought Norma's death (if you don't shoot her obviously) was worse than those two. Even if she died relatively quickly, I think it was her screaming and struggling, and that blank, horrified look on her face as she's taken down that did it for me. Also, the way she looks at Michonne before she dies.
I'd be more convinced that Norma and her community wasn't being demonized by the narrative if the player was given the option to call Sam out on how her actions lead to the downfall of a community, and the deaths of her father, brother, potentially herself, and one or two of Michonne's people.
I get the feeling that the story wanted us to feel sorry for Sam and her plight, especially when she doesn't really seem to acknowledge that she's arguably responsible for every death in the story, unless I missed a line where she was indeed remorseful for her actions but was too angry to make amends with Norma and her people.
You can't really have a grey vs gray morality when you're not given the option to properly judge who was really in the wrong at the end of the day, and is forced to pick a side and help their cause without thinking twice about just walking away and staying out of the mess they've caused in the first place.
A pretty elaborate way of signalling her men, I must say. Whatever happened to just whistling?
Man I know but Sarita's death always got to me, personally. Like, not only does she have to deal with Clem's amputation suffering and screaming, she's also bitten so much that she just slowly suffers with certain death. Her eyes and groaning bothered me the most, the way her eyes turned white while straddling the line between life and reanimation was so disturbing I just had to put her out of her misery. She wasn't my favorite character but she was really sweet and I hated to see her go that way.
I let her be devoured too. Fucking brutal.
I just don't feel they were being demonized, in all honesty
If they intended for Norma and her crew to be the clear-cut bad guys here, would they go to such extents to make her as diplomatic as she is? Why give the player the option to tell her the truth in episode 1 without punishment? Why have her try to negotiate with us in episode 2 after her community burns down? Why have us be able to actually go through with the trade in episode 3 successfully (well, save for Randall promptly attempting to kill Michonne, making her have to kill him in self-defense)? Why give us a choice to try and leave her community peacefully? Why give us the choice to end her suffering, which largely counts more as a sign of respect than anything? Why have Norma not technically do anything bad herself with the exception of shooting Zachary and possibly Oak? Why have Norma continue to be diplomatic up until Randall's death, willing to let us killing one of her people during the negotiation slide? Why not give the order to attack if we hand over Randall, even in spite of us hurting him? Why return our crew without so much as laying a scratch on them? Why let Pete get away without a scratch when she's interrogating him? Why give us the information that she let Sam go without consequence? Why have her mention that she believes in second chances? Why have her practically break her 'second chances' rule with Michonne? Why have her only attack the house once we gun down Randall in front of her, which suggests that the choice to attack was more of a rage-fueled knee-jerk reaction to her brother's death than a coordinated plan? Why do all of this if they wanted her to be the absolute bad guy?
Maybe the two of us just see things in a completely different light, and that's perfectly fine, but it just doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe she can't whistle
maybe she just wanted an excuse to shoot a flare gun to look cool
maybe she had some men close by in the bushes, and a back-up team even further back that wouldn't hear a whistle
maybe this is just a story, and the writers wrote something that in hindsight wasn't the best idea, but it sounded good on paper at the time so they just rolled with it
Oh man, somehow I forgot about the whole thing with Sarita's eyes. Yeah, that actually was pretty unsettling.
I'm not exactly saying that Norma and her group is being 100% demonized at every angle, I agree that she was still presented at a reasonable light in Episode 1 and 2, and even in the finale she was still doing her best to be reasonable while reaching the end of her patience with how much she had lost because of Sam.
I'm just stating that the finale seemed to have taken the easy way out and did not fully commit to the grey vs gray morality by not giving the player the option to agree and sympathize with Norma and her people, and fully condemn Sam for her actions that had affected not just the people from Monroe and her own family, but how Michonne's own group were put in danger and had at least one team member killed.
Pretty much all of these options, yep.
I don't know, didn't get any reaction out of me, guess I'm just not fazed by gore. Her killing Oak makes me a lot less sympathetic, no matter how much in the right she is.
Highlight of the episode for me. Goodbye Norma I hope the supplies were worth it
Though telltale need to learn that arms don't come off that easily, first sarita and now this
I shot her only because I wanted to kill her myself. That was for Berto and Zachary, you bitch.
Agreed, it was real messed up... it was for Berto though... and Zach too
I felt really bad for Norma, so I put her out of her misery. I shocked to see on 38% of players do this. Oak didn't die for me, I tried to keep it peaceful.
Norma may have been diplomatic, or she may even have been lying. but thats besides the point because she didn't start shooting Zachary's boyfriend did! all the people that escorted the crew just wanted to kill them for retribution for burning the town, they say that. so to say that Norma may have been reasonable is one thing, but her crew fired the first shot, and there was like twenty of them. She showed up early and didn't want people talking on the radios either. If Norma was so reasonable she would have believed that I just met sam on the boat at the beginning and let me go. I didn't trust her from the get go.
This was my favourite moment of episode 3. I let her suffer a lot. She and her brother were assholes.
what about the radios they had been using throughout the entire episode? she was drawing in Zs.
What about Pete's group?
EDIT: Sorry, I already posted here.
That entire fight was probably the most gruesome fight of the entire series. Telltale really amped up their action scenes, feel very comic book-y.
R.I.P. the one true hero
Welp.....at least Michonne looked like a Badass shooting Norma in the other decision. Some people got that I guess (including me).
It is pretty badass.