I always thought that Greg saying that they're old family friends was a relatively smart move, because whatever Michonne said would coincide, as long as she stated that they knew each other. They could've been acquaintances and still found one another after the apocalypse occurred.
Secondly, Greg and Michonne never talked. Greg has no way of knowing what Michonne said to Norma. He wasn't purposely trying to lie and throw Michonne under the bus, he was just answering the questions and hoping they lined up with what she said. When Norma calls him out on it, he looks scared. If he really wanted to throw Michonne under the bus, wouldn't he just claim that Michonne's the liar, instead of looking like a deer in headlights? I think a lot of people tend to overlook this fact. Greg ain't a psychic, he doesn't know what Michonne said, so he just had to wing it and hope he gave the right answers. There's also the fact that even if you accuse Greg of lying, he doesn't hold it against you. He isn't all like "What the hell, why'd you let Randall kick my ass?"
I believe it is true that Randall killed those people and I also take as true that he killed the scavengers, because… wait for it… they're the same people! The scavengers killed the previous inhabitants of the ferry, moved in and settled, and then were killed by Randall.
The only confusing part of the Mobjack massacre, in my opinion, is the kids. Norma says that the scavengers killed the children, but that begs the question; if they did kill them, then why did they keep the bodies on board? There's kids that were zip-tied before they were shot, and then there's two separate bodies, one sprawled out on the floor, the other being clutched in the hands of what I'd assume was her father. Secondly, if the scavengers settled on that boat after killing the previous inhabitants, why do all the bodies look like they're in the same stage of decomposition? That would suggest that the people on the ferry were all killed in the same time frame. If the scavengers killed the other people, moved in, then got killed themselves, then half of those bodies would be more decayed than the rest. There's a bit of a fudge factor here as some of the bodies are a bit more decomposed than others, but the point still stands. There would be a noticeable difference if they were killed at different times.
The other possibility is that the kids on the ferry were part of the scavenger group, but that goes against what Norma said, unless Randall lied to Norma about what happened on the Mobjack.
This video apparently convinced @AronDracula and @TheAutisticGamer that Norma isn't so bad, and I am glad, I suppose. But it grossly distort… mores from what actually happened, pointing unfair judgments at Samantha. This doesn't have to be a choice as Sam vs Norma! You can like or dislike both, if you want!
First of all, it was explained that Sam only stole twice from Monroe, not three times, because Norma would then be constantly The second time, she stole the two bags—one with assorted supplies, and the other one with guns and ammunition—and brought them home, but then talked to Greg about it, and they decided to go back to the ferry and temporarily hide them to bring them back progressively, so that it didn't look like the supplies had been pulled out of her ass. You can see John nor Paige know about Monroe up to that point. And the kleptomaniac remark… yeah… no. That's not accurate.
I have to say, I instantly disliked Sam for acting lik… [view original content]
But if her eyes are pretty, for stealing from someone (twice or even more) and dragging some random person into your mess, saying you know them and expecting them to back you up, you get a slap on the wrist.
...No wonder some females get away with crimes in the real world.
norma forgave her and let her go the first time, sam didn't thought about the consequences and came back to steal from them again and she got her brother and her father killed, it was all her fault. "If you can't do the Time don't do the Crime"
I don't think Sam is a horrible person. She's a strong person who cares about her family. She just made some mistakes that pissed off some psychos who don't like sharing.
Yeah, it would've been wiser for Sam to not steal again after the first time. But I think she didn't know how serious and crazy they were because Norma was nicer than Randall.
norma forgave her and let her go the first time, sam didn't thought about the consequences and came back to steal from them again and she got her brother and her father killed, it was all her fault. "If you can't do the Time don't do the Crime"
Well, if Randall hadn't massacred the members of the Mobjack none of this would have happened, so that's direct responsibility, and I doubt he killed them accidentally.
The case is different from the what-if and the blame games, though. Michonne did start a fire, and that did directly end up with people dyin… moreg. The other ridiculous examples link a death to an indirectly responsible character. That's how I see it, at least.
I seem to recall her admitting it was her fault, saying Michonne was captured because of her and that it was her fault the people of Monroe are after her for taking advantage of Norma's kindness.
You can't fully blame Sam, remember that Norma chose to let her go, to not let her suffer any consequences the first time, that's a big risk, especially when you're the leader of the community. Don't get me wrong though, I really liked Norma but both can take the blame.
Sam caused the conflict, she stole (and this was after she had been let go previously) its pretty ridiculous to compare this to pete wanting… more to help others.
Its the same as ben in season , yes there was a follow up of effects that had multiple causes but they were the start of it all
Sam isn't a horrible person, she stole supplies for her and her family so that they could survive. After the death of the people on the Mobjack, Sam and her family no longer had anyone to trade supplies and rations with, so she had to resort to taking from a nearby community. Although I guess she could've learned how to catch Fish, Crabs and Birds but that doesn't really help with their medicine and protection problems. She did a morally bad thing for a morally good reason, she herself admits it was her fault for taking advantage of Norma but you can't say that Norma did anything to prevent Sam from stealing, she let her go the first time showing Sam that Monroe could be exploited thanks to Norma's kindness.
I think people just follow what the game tells them. The game shows Sam in an ally light so most people think that way regardless of evidence. Regardless of you have people to feed or not stealing from a group you already know is dangerous is never a great idea as some people claim it to be. Just because Randall is shown in an antagonistic way doesn't do the wrong Sam did. She also had a hand in Monroe's destruction
norma forgave her and let her go the first time, sam didn't thought about the consequences and came back to steal from them again and she got her brother and her father killed, it was all her fault. "If you can't do the Time don't do the Crime"
I didn't watch the video and don't plan to, but I can totally see why people think Sam is "a terrible person". She's lied, threatened to kill us, has a history of stealing, and started a chain of events that led to tragedy for everyone involved in the story. But Sam is not some monster that people make her out to be. She clearly regrets what she has done (even if because it got her loved ones killed) and apologizes multiple times for involving Michonne. Sam doesn't care about the boat community since she HAS to care about her family over everyone, it's the way humans are and it's justified since Norma's group kill kids. The girl has humanity, which is more than you can say for most people in TWD.
I see the ferry massacre as a sub-plot, more than anything. Would you mind explaining how it connects to the main storyline? I think it could've been scrapped and virtually nothing would have changed.
Well, if Randall hadn't massacred the members of the Mobjack none of this would have happened, so that's direct responsibility, and I doubt he killed them accidentally.
For one thing, the ferry is the whole reason we end up meeting Sam and Randall, because we need boat parts.
For another it's set up as a main theme of the story both by how long you can explore the wreck, and the fact that it features as important in the episode 1 summary. It was essentially an introduction to Randall, and if it hadn't taken place the entire narrative would have have to been changed, and Randall's brutality proven in another way.
I see the ferry massacre as a sub-plot, more than anything. Would you mind explaining how it connects to the main storyline? I think it could've been scrapped and virtually nothing would have changed.
Sam stealing can be directly connected to us being taken to the community. The massacre cannot.
The massacre that happened a while back doesnt put sam and randall on the mobjack, it at the most puts michonne and pete there (and this is without sam also radioing for help).
Sam stealing - Randall chases sam- Sam and Randall on boat- Sam lies that we are with her- Randall takes us to monroe.
I know sam isnt 100% to blame for this but she does set off the chain of events that causes the game
You cant link Mobjack massacre to anything other than Michonne and pete going to the boat, Randall and sam have no reason to be there
For one thing, the ferry is the whole reason we end up meeting Sam and Randall, because we need boat parts.
For another it's set up as a … moremain theme of the story both by how long you can explore the wreck, and the fact that it features as important in the episode 1 summary. It was essentially an introduction to Randall, and if it hadn't taken place the entire narrative would have have to been changed, and Randall's brutality proven in another way.
I didn't watch the video and don't plan to, but I can totally see why people think Sam is "a terrible person". She's lied, threatened to kil… morel us, has a history of stealing, and started a chain of events that led to tragedy for everyone involved in the story. But Sam is not some monster that people make her out to be. She clearly regrets what she has done (even if because it got her loved ones killed) and apologizes multiple times for involving Michonne. Sam doesn't care about the boat community since she HAS to care about her family over everyone, it's the way humans are and it's justified since Norma's group kill kids. The girl has humanity, which is more than you can say for most people in TWD.
That's more or less what I was thinking. Plus, I don't really think the ferry massacre was what brought them there as much as the ferry's existence did. The Mobjack could've been empty of corpses and the core of the game would play out the same way, of course excluding all talk about the massacre, but that's secondary.
Sam stealing can be directly connected to us being taken to the community. The massacre cannot.
The massacre that happened a while back d… moreoesnt put sam and randall on the mobjack, it at the most puts michonne and pete there (and this is without sam also radioing for help).
Sam stealing - Randall chases sam- Sam and Randall on boat- Sam lies that we are with her- Randall takes us to monroe.
I know sam isnt 100% to blame for this but she does set off the chain of events that causes the game
You cant link Mobjack massacre to anything other than Michonne and pete going to the boat, Randall and sam have no reason to be there
I think maybe there saying that Randall and co apparently sunk all these other boats as well (which there is even less evidence for) which is what we get stuck on.
Still that only gets michonne and pete to the ferry, not sam and randall
That's more or less what I was thinking. Plus, I don't really think the ferry massacre was what brought them there as much as the ferry's ex… moreistence did. The Mobjack could've been empty of corpses and the core of the game would play out the same way, of course excluding all talk about the massacre, but that's secondary.
I didn't watch the video and don't plan to, but I can totally see why people think Sam is "a terrible person". She's lied, threatened to kil… morel us, has a history of stealing, and started a chain of events that led to tragedy for everyone involved in the story. But Sam is not some monster that people make her out to be. She clearly regrets what she has done (even if because it got her loved ones killed) and apologizes multiple times for involving Michonne. Sam doesn't care about the boat community since she HAS to care about her family over everyone, it's the way humans are and it's justified since Norma's group kill kids. The girl has humanity, which is more than you can say for most people in TWD.
She tells us that they killed scavengers on the Mobjack. Randall says the same thing so we can assume it's true.
Sooooooo.... maybe she was talking about what they did to the scavengers?
I just can't see Norma (a woman who's willing to let the destruction of her entire community pass) heartlessly kill children. It doesn't fit her character.
She says to Michonne 'we'll make what happened on the ferry look like (something) if you don't hand Randall over' OWTTE.
They did it.
Why? We don't know. Probably because Randall's a fucking psychopath.
But Norma's also presented as someone who cares for her brother. And I can TOTALLY see her turning a blind eye to Randall killing innocents.
Furthermore, if the Monroe group didn't kill the people on the ferry, why are they even in the game? Clearly it's meant to hint at that. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the massacre a big deal.
She tells us that they killed scavengers on the Mobjack. Randall says the same thing so we can assume it's true.
Sooooooo.... maybe she w… moreas talking about what they did to the scavengers?
I just can't see Norma (a woman who's willing to let the destruction of her entire community pass) heartlessly kill children. It doesn't fit her character.
There could be a chance Sam is lying about that, I won't deny that. However it just seems to fit the story that Randall gun down the people on the boat. From the twisty ties they use and even Randall talking about killing kids.
No please, don't worry! I was just slightly annoyed at realizing that I wrote the same thing twice on this thread, and it wasn't that relevant of a comment to begin with. That's all.
But Randall and Norma's stories line up. And I don't believe that it was pure coincidence that they did.
And exactly, it hints at it. It was meant to demonize the antagonists. But if we look at all the details maybe they are innocent and the game just led us to misjudge them.
But Norma's also presented as someone who cares for her brother. And I can TOTALLY see her turning a blind eye to Randall killing innocents.… more
Furthermore, if the Monroe group didn't kill the people on the ferry, why are they even in the game? Clearly it's meant to hint at that. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the massacre a big deal.
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Secondly, Greg and Michonne never talked. Greg has no way of knowing what Michonne said to Norma. He wasn't purposely trying to lie and throw Michonne under the bus, he was just answering the questions and hoping they lined up with what she said. When Norma calls him out on it, he looks scared. If he really wanted to throw Michonne under the bus, wouldn't he just claim that Michonne's the liar, instead of looking like a deer in headlights? I think a lot of people tend to overlook this fact. Greg ain't a psychic, he doesn't know what Michonne said, so he just had to wing it and hope he gave the right answers. There's also the fact that even if you accuse Greg of lying, he doesn't hold it against you. He isn't all like "What the hell, why'd you let Randall kick my ass?"
The only confusing part of the Mobjack massacre, in my opinion, is the kids. Norma says that the scavengers killed the children, but that begs the question; if they did kill them, then why did they keep the bodies on board? There's kids that were zip-tied before they were shot, and then there's two separate bodies, one sprawled out on the floor, the other being clutched in the hands of what I'd assume was her father. Secondly, if the scavengers settled on that boat after killing the previous inhabitants, why do all the bodies look like they're in the same stage of decomposition? That would suggest that the people on the ferry were all killed in the same time frame. If the scavengers killed the other people, moved in, then got killed themselves, then half of those bodies would be more decayed than the rest. There's a bit of a fudge factor here as some of the bodies are a bit more decomposed than others, but the point still stands. There would be a noticeable difference if they were killed at different times.
The other possibility is that the kids on the ferry were part of the scavenger group, but that goes against what Norma said, unless Randall lied to Norma about what happened on the Mobjack.
But if her eyes are pretty, for stealing from someone (twice or even more) and dragging some random person into your mess, saying you know them and expecting them to back you up, you get a slap on the wrist.
...No wonder some females get away with crimes in the real world.
norma forgave her and let her go the first time, sam didn't thought about the consequences and came back to steal from them again and she got her brother and her father killed, it was all her fault. "If you can't do the Time don't do the Crime"
Yeah, it would've been wiser for Sam to not steal again after the first time. But I think she didn't know how serious and crazy they were because Norma was nicer than Randall.
Well, if Randall hadn't massacred the members of the Mobjack none of this would have happened, so that's direct responsibility, and I doubt he killed them accidentally.
I seem to recall her admitting it was her fault, saying Michonne was captured because of her and that it was her fault the people of Monroe are after her for taking advantage of Norma's kindness.
You can't fully blame Sam, remember that Norma chose to let her go, to not let her suffer any consequences the first time, that's a big risk, especially when you're the leader of the community. Don't get me wrong though, I really liked Norma but both can take the blame.
Sam isn't a horrible person, she stole supplies for her and her family so that they could survive. After the death of the people on the Mobjack, Sam and her family no longer had anyone to trade supplies and rations with, so she had to resort to taking from a nearby community. Although I guess she could've learned how to catch Fish, Crabs and Birds but that doesn't really help with their medicine and protection problems. She did a morally bad thing for a morally good reason, she herself admits it was her fault for taking advantage of Norma but you can't say that Norma did anything to prevent Sam from stealing, she let her go the first time showing Sam that Monroe could be exploited thanks to Norma's kindness.
I think people just follow what the game tells them. The game shows Sam in an ally light so most people think that way regardless of evidence. Regardless of you have people to feed or not stealing from a group you already know is dangerous is never a great idea as some people claim it to be. Just because Randall is shown in an antagonistic way doesn't do the wrong Sam did. She also had a hand in Monroe's destruction
It's called butterfly effect
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Ah horrible, my kind of person.
But at least if you don't like her you can let her die in ep3. Get your own back idk
I agree. I really don't like Sam. I tried, but I just can't. I don't get the love for her.
I didn't watch the video and don't plan to, but I can totally see why people think Sam is "a terrible person". She's lied, threatened to kill us, has a history of stealing, and started a chain of events that led to tragedy for everyone involved in the story. But Sam is not some monster that people make her out to be. She clearly regrets what she has done (even if because it got her loved ones killed) and apologizes multiple times for involving Michonne. Sam doesn't care about the boat community since she HAS to care about her family over everyone, it's the way humans are and it's justified since Norma's group kill kids. The girl has humanity, which is more than you can say for most people in TWD.
I see the ferry massacre as a sub-plot, more than anything. Would you mind explaining how it connects to the main storyline? I think it could've been scrapped and virtually nothing would have changed.
I can't because I CAN"T STAND MICHONNE'S DAUGHTERS.
For one thing, the ferry is the whole reason we end up meeting Sam and Randall, because we need boat parts.
For another it's set up as a main theme of the story both by how long you can explore the wreck, and the fact that it features as important in the episode 1 summary. It was essentially an introduction to Randall, and if it hadn't taken place the entire narrative would have have to been changed, and Randall's brutality proven in another way.
Sam stealing can be directly connected to us being taken to the community. The massacre cannot.
The massacre that happened a while back doesnt put sam and randall on the mobjack, it at the most puts michonne and pete there (and this is without sam also radioing for help).
Sam stealing - Randall chases sam- Sam and Randall on boat- Sam lies that we are with her- Randall takes us to monroe.
I know sam isnt 100% to blame for this but she does set off the chain of events that causes the game
You cant link Mobjack massacre to anything other than Michonne and pete going to the boat, Randall and sam have no reason to be there
we dont know if norma and her people killed the people of the mobjack
That's more or less what I was thinking. Plus, I don't really think the ferry massacre was what brought them there as much as the ferry's existence did. The Mobjack could've been empty of corpses and the core of the game would play out the same way, of course excluding all talk about the massacre, but that's secondary.
I think maybe there saying that Randall and co apparently sunk all these other boats as well (which there is even less evidence for) which is what we get stuck on.
Still that only gets michonne and pete to the ferry, not sam and randall
Why would Norma kill kids? Randall likely killed the ferry people and lied to his sister.
That's what I think happened.
She says to Michonne 'we'll make what happened on the ferry look like (something) if you don't hand Randall over' OWTTE.
They did it.
Why? We don't know. Probably because Randall's a fucking psychopath.
She tells us that they killed scavengers on the Mobjack. Randall says the same thing so we can assume it's true.
Sooooooo.... maybe she was talking about what they did to the scavengers?
I just can't see Norma (a woman who's willing to let the destruction of her entire community pass) heartlessly kill children. It doesn't fit her character.
But Norma's also presented as someone who cares for her brother. And I can TOTALLY see her turning a blind eye to Randall killing innocents.
Furthermore, if the Monroe group didn't kill the people on the ferry, why are they even in the game? Clearly it's meant to hint at that. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the massacre a big deal.
There could be a chance Sam is lying about that, I won't deny that. However it just seems to fit the story that Randall gun down the people on the boat. From the twisty ties they use and even Randall talking about killing kids.
I could swear the thumbnail changed!
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Jesus Christ, I accidentally double-posted. Need a little help here, Moderator reading this!
I wasn't trying to offend you, sorry.
No please, don't worry! I was just slightly annoyed at realizing that I wrote the same thing twice on this thread, and it wasn't that relevant of a comment to begin with. That's all.
But Randall and Norma's stories line up. And I don't believe that it was pure coincidence that they did.
And exactly, it hints at it. It was meant to demonize the antagonists. But if we look at all the details maybe they are innocent and the game just led us to misjudge them.
Dude, Sam's been a pain in my ass ever since I first met her. Same with Greg.
I wish Zach shot Sam instead of Greg.
This is gone, never to be seen again.
Dude what the hell.....
Shit happens, brah.
You both seem to have very intense opinions, either someone is perfect or deserves a horrible death