I admit i missed the hairclips. But in NO way, does giving someone a hairclip mean you are capable of taking care of them. Lol.
What she says about Clem maybe getting sick, that is lily manipulating Lee to go look for the thief, through HIS concern for Clementines well being.
I don't agree with what Kenny did in the meat locker at all, and i always try to save Lily's dad. That it happened, does Not give her an excuse to shoot one of her own group for no reason though. In my opinion it makes it twice as bad that she would do to someone else what had just been done to her.
Lily shot Carly/Doug point blank in the face, on nothing but blind suspicion, with almost no provocation whatsoever. Then after that, if you… more allow her to stay with you, she abandons you all on the side of the road (Clem included) and steals your RV. Without a single thought for Clem.
Well her dad just got brutally murdererd infront, of her eyes by Kenny a few days beforehand.
So i think, it had a little bit more to do with that, then just blind suspicion.
She was just in a really dark place, at the moment of shooting Doug/Carley, and then after the mess with the bandits.
She just lost it, so i don't blame her for shooting Doug/Carley sure it was a horrible act.
But Kenny by killing Larry started, a terrible chain of events, so in my opinon that blood is on his hands aswell.
Also the fact she steals the RV, i think she did that because she was so shocked that she herself, committed such a terrible thing.
And tought of herself as dange… [view original content]
Fair point
But i think, if you commit such a horrible murder as Kenny did by smashing Larry's face with a saltlick.
Infront of the man'… mores own daughter.
You can be held responssible, for the other terrible things such a action will set in motion.
I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but what I am sure about is that there's a big difference between absolutely making sure that Larry … morewas truly dead and thus impossible to resuscitate, and ensuring that Lilly knew this before deciding to prevent her dad from reanimated. And then there's immediately attempting to drop a heavy object on Larry's head in front of his daughter just as soon as he collapsed while she's trying to revive him, without any consideration for her mental state and without even checking to see if he's really alive or not, and which can be done right in front of an unsuspecting eight year old girl who hadn't have the time to look away.
What she says about Clem maybe getting sick, that is lily manipulating Lee to go look for the thief, through HIS concern for Clementines well being.
That, is… exactly what she was doing. And she was right that it was the same. I don't personally consider it as manipulation as much as I consider it getting him to think about the possible outcome of opioid medicine going missing.
Actually, you might've missed it or forgotten it, but Lilly was seen accompanying Clementine and talking to her in one of Jolene's—the emotionally-unstable ex-Save Lots bandit—recordings. Add to that the hair thingies, and Clementine vaguely smiling when reminicising about Lilly on the train, and you have established that they had an overall good relationship.
I admit i missed the hairclips. But in NO way, does giving someone a hairclip mean you are capable of taking care of them. Lol.
What she … moresays about Clem maybe getting sick, that is lily manipulating Lee to go look for the thief, through HIS concern for Clementines well being.
I don't agree with what Kenny did in the meat locker at all, and i always try to save Lily's dad. That it happened, does Not give her an excuse to shoot one of her own group for no reason though. In my opinion it makes it twice as bad that she would do to someone else what had just been done to her.
Sure, they had a decent friendly aqquaintance. The same type most people would have in a group they were living with in close quarters for months on end. I get that. I did forget about Jolenes video, have to go watch it again.
But they aren't Close by any means IMO. And i still don't think that she would be a good caretaker/rolemodel for Clem. But thats just my opinion.
Thanks BettertoSleep for reminding me about those videos
What she says about Clem maybe getting sick, that is lily manipulating Lee to go look for the thief, through HIS concern for Clementines wel… morel being.
That, is… exactly what she was doing. And she was right that it was the same. I don't personally consider it as manipulation as much as I consider it getting him to think about the possible outcome of opioid medicine going missing.
Actually, you might've missed it or forgotten it, but Lilly was seen accompanying Clementine and talking to her in one of Jolene's—the emotionally-unstable ex-Save Lots bandit—recordings. Add to that the hair thingies, and Clementine vaguely smiling when reminicising about Lilly on the train, and you have established that they had an overall good relationship.
We agree on that. It's more like they get along well rather than they are close. Being caged with people sure can get tiring at times, but it certainly creates an interesting dinamic between every single person there. That's why the idea of a community—cough-Wellington-cough—interests me a lot.
Actually, my canon ending is the Howe's with the family ending, but I'm personally much more interested in seeing what comes out of the Wellington ending.
Sure, they had a decent friendly aqquaintance. The same type most people would have in a group they were living with in close quarters for m… moreonths on end. I get that. I did forget about Jolenes video, have to go watch it again.
But they aren't Close by any means IMO. And i still don't think that she would be a good caretaker/rolemodel for Clem. But thats just my opinion.
Thanks BettertoSleep for reminding me about those videos
The thing about walled communities for me, is that they are just a giant cage. If you aren't the one with control over who comes and goes - you're a prisoner. And with the preconceptions all these 'adult' characters have thrown at Clem, about what she should or shouldn't be/do, i really don't have a lot of faith that any 'new' adults at some community will let Clem have much autonomy or say over herself and her life choices.
Therefore in my Canon, Clem and AJ head off by themselves. Hopefully we meet some people who arent complete arseholes?
We agree on that. It's more like they get along well rather than they are close. Being caged with people sure can get tiring at times, but i… moret certainly creates an interesting dinamic between every single person there. That's why the idea of a community—cough-Wellington-cough—interests me a lot.
Actually, my canon ending is the Howe's with the family ending, but I'm personally much more interested in seeing what comes out of the Wellington ending.
I honestly don't know what to expect of that ending, @Arya_Stupid. Story-wise, what could happen, other than Clementine looking for shelter and accidentally bumping into another group in the middle of a heated situation? I doubt she'll just find a settlement with residents, but I wish for it.
I don't really feel that way about communities, but that's just my opinion. Contrary to other colonies that we've encountered, Wellington gives me hope that we can live in a normal place with normal people. Not everyone needs to be a power-hungry dictator. This place/town/whatever gives me such a refreshing vibe, that I am just starting to write post-apocalyptic fiction—with original characters—and they seek to find Wellington. I'm revising a lot on writing, and I don't think I'll ever publish it anywhere. You could say I'm doing this for myself.
…anyway. With that chunk of off-topic personal info-dump aside, yeah, Lilly did care for Clementine to some degree, but they of course weren't as close as Clem and Lee. That's a rhyme!
Interesting dynamics for sure.
The thing about walled communities for me, is that they are just a giant cage. If you aren't the one with … morecontrol over who comes and goes - you're a prisoner. And with the preconceptions all these 'adult' characters have thrown at Clem, about what she should or shouldn't be/do, i really don't have a lot of faith that any 'new' adults at some community will let Clem have much autonomy or say over herself and her life choices.
Therefore in my Canon, Clem and AJ head off by themselves. Hopefully we meet some people who arent complete arseholes?
I don't really know what to expect either, but i like that. I also like the idea that she may have more options being in the 'wild' as to who she chooses to form a group with or not. But i will definitely play through with the other endings as well, to see what happens.
I'm glad you find the idea of Wellington so compelling that it inspires you to write thats awesome! Post-apocolyptic stories have always been some of my favorites, i find the setting really compelling. If you ever want someone to take a look at it, just hit me up with a pm. Ill give you my honest opinion - even if it rhymes. Lol.
I honestly don't know what to expect of that ending, @Arya_Stupid. Story-wise, what could happen, other than Clementine looking for shelter … moreand accidentally bumping into another group in the middle of a heated situation? I doubt she'll just find a settlement with residents, but I wish for it.
I don't really feel that way about communities, but that's just my opinion. Contrary to other colonies that we've encountered, Wellington gives me hope that we can live in a normal place with normal people. Not everyone needs to be a power-hungry dictator. This place/town/whatever gives me such a refreshing vibe, that I am just starting to write post-apocalyptic fiction—with original characters—and they seek to find Wellington. I'm revising a lot on writing, and I don't think I'll ever publish it anywhere. You could say I'm doing this for myself.
…anyway. With that chunk of off-topic personal info-dump aside, yeah, Lilly did care for Clementine to … [view original content]
I don't really know what to expect either, but i like that. I also like the idea that she may have more options being in the 'wild' as to wh… moreo she chooses to form a group with or not. But i will definitely play through with the other endings as well, to see what happens.
I'm glad you find the idea of Wellington so compelling that it inspires you to write thats awesome! Post-apocolyptic stories have always been some of my favorites, i find the setting really compelling. If you ever want someone to take a look at it, just hit me up with a pm. Ill give you my honest opinion - even if it rhymes. Lol.
Thanks for the conversation!
I don't think Luke. He put the group in danger in episode 4 including Clementine without any regrets. Instead of doing his job to spot any walkers nearby to let the group know about it, he gets laid with Jane.
Luke, err… I don't really think he'd make a good caretaker.
But why though?
From what we saw, Luke was great with Clementine. He protected her and treated her like she wasn't some brain dead kid. He wouldn't leave her to die had a situation called for it. He shielded her from a gun with his own body, which leaves me to believe that he'd die for her. Shit, he practically does if you choose to help Luke instead of cover him. He offered her a spot in his group despite some of them not wanting her there. He's morally in tact, maybe a bit too much. He would refuse any rest both traveling miles to get to the group and when he was shot in the leg, not wanting to slow the group down. He's a generally nice guy, and like Deltino said, he'd share a positive relationship with her and be a good influence on her.
Honestly, there's few things wrong with him in my opinion. Like how he bottles up his emotions to the point out outburst, i.e, accepting Jane's offer to have sex (instead of getting violent or going crazy, thank God) after his best friend dies and Sarah determinantly gets ripped apart just below him. How he didn't want to kill Carver, someone he absolutely hated, despite the possibility of him coming back for them. But that was only because he felt as if it was wrong to do to Carver what he'd done to other people. Not wanting to tell Walter about Matthew, but to be fair, was understandable as he was doing that to make sure his best friend-- and entire group --weren't hurt or killed. And yelling at Sarah who was clearly traumatized and in a bad mental state (plus her disabililty), but to make sure neither of them died.
Shit, even most of the stuff that's considered bad that Luke does still has good intention. I just can't see why you'd think he wouldn't be a good caretaker.
Pete has parenting skills, and is shown as an overall moral person, which helps when it comes to saving a girl's skin as compared to saving … morehis own. He is a capable survivor, regularly going to fish and hunt. He also has leadership abilities, which, you know, comes in handy.
Luke, err… I don't really think he'd make a good caretaker.
Your right Uncle Pete, would have been the best care-taker for Clementine
I was under the impression while playing, ep1 of S2 that he wo… moreuld kinda gonna be going to play that role.
But sadly, they killed him off way to soon.
Also he would, have been the only person from the cabin group i think who would have said.
" Hell no that ain't happening. "
If the group, came up with a crazy plan like, letting Clementine cross a bridge full of walkers.
Or lifting her up, to the roof off the hardware store, to get them all out off Carver's bootcamp.
She was left alone for about 10 to 15 minutes and in that time she managed to get bit by a dog and almost get eaten. Had Luke and Pete not come to her rescue, we wouldn't have a season 2.
You see, the stranger set Clementine up to believe that her parents were alive and she trusted him. So is Clementine responsible for trusting him? Of course not. Hell, I'm sure that even an adult could fall for those kind of lies had it been their own parents or even their children.
Now with Lilly, you can't blame her for her father being brutally killed literally inches away from her eyes. It's absolutely horrific to see someone's head get crushed, let alone her own father's. So you can't really blame her for going off the deep end, the things people go through can make them go psychotic. But the things they do, they aren't excusable. Carley's context was a little more unnecessary than Doug's, seeing as she killed Carley because a) she thought she was the one giving the bandits supplies, and b) she basically got insulted by her. But Lilly wasn't aiming for Doug, she was aiming for Ben. Doug was just heroic enough to pull Ben out of the way and risk the shot himself.
She just lost it, so i don't blame her for shooting Doug/Carley sure it was a horrible act
Lilly is responsible for that, Kenny set her up to be so unstable but you cant blame him for what she chooses to do/
Much as I like Luke, I can think of a few reasons. He was careless at Carver's camp, leading to his capture and Kenny losing an eye. (Although Kenny doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut!) Also, Luke deliberately left cover for no real reason. He might have been able to pull himself out of the lake if he wasn't shot.
Luke, err… I don't really think he'd make a good caretaker.
But why though?
From what we saw, Luke was great with Clementine. He … moreprotected her and treated her like she wasn't some brain dead kid. He wouldn't leave her to die had a situation called for it. He shielded her from a gun with his own body, which leaves me to believe that he'd die for her. Shit, he practically does if you choose to help Luke instead of cover him. He offered her a spot in his group despite some of them not wanting her there. He's morally in tact, maybe a bit too much. He would refuse any rest both traveling miles to get to the group and when he was shot in the leg, not wanting to slow the group down. He's a generally nice guy, and like Deltino said, he'd share a positive relationship with her and be a good influence on her.
Honestly, there's few things wrong with him in my opinion. Like how he bottles up his emotions to the point out outburst, i.e, acce… [view original content]
Jane, assuming she doesn't take off again. Otherwise, I think a (well-functioning) group is necessary. People who have different experience, skill sets, and points of view are necessary. Checks and balances. Luke, Jane, Bonnie, Mike, Clem, and AJ would have probably stuck together and got along. Kenny was the monkey wrench.
welp, you got me there. I was wrong, but who do you think is better to take care of clementine?
There are problems with everyone in some way, its more personal preference who you think is best
Well he shouldn't have asked a 11-year old child, to acccompany him on a broken bridge, even if it had just a few walkers on it.
Thats just, a very dumb idea in my opinion, he should have asked Nick to join him.
But instead he tells Clementine that he doesn't trust his own best friend, to tie his own shoes.
And if he, didn't trust Nick to cross, the bridge with him he could have always asked Carlos or Alvin, instead off bringing along a child on such a dangerous mission.
letting Clementine cross a bridge full of walkers
To be fair, the bridge was never full of walkers. Only a few had popped out, but it wasn't anything they couldn't of handled.
Much as I like Luke, I can think of a few reasons. He was careless at Carver's camp, leading to his capture and Kenny losing an eye. (Althou… moregh Kenny doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut!) Also, Luke deliberately left cover for no real reason. He might have been able to pull himself out of the lake if he wasn't shot.
The way I always saw the scene is that Luke wasn't really thinking about how dangerous it was. He was looking at it as more of a character-building exercise with Clementine. I mean, we're talking about a guy who says he used to jump rooftops as a kid for fun. He can make a few comments related to it being fun. For example, if Clementine's hesitant about taking out the walkers near the bridge, Luke plays it off like "C'mon, it'll be fun!"
He's the thrill-seeking type that doesn't always realize how dangerous what he's doing is. He's the well-intentioned type of reckless. He isn't trying to put people in danger, he just doesn't really recognize how dangerous it is to begin with. Compare that to Kenny, who's more of the bad kind of reckless; he recognizes how dangerous what he's doing is, but he ignores it and puts people at risk knowingly.
Well he shouldn't have asked a 11-year old child, to acccompany him on a broken bridge, even if it had just a few walkers on it.
Thats just… more, a very dumb idea in my opinion, he should have asked Nick to join him.
But instead he tells Clementine that he doesn't trust his own best friend, to tie his own shoes.
And if he, didn't trust Nick to cross, the bridge with him he could have always asked Carlos or Alvin, instead off bringing along a child on such a dangerous mission.
Yes Kenny set this thing into motion....though I think everyone should have seen how unhinged Lilly had become after that. I will say that when you tell Katjaa what Kenny did, it is one of the reasons she shoots herself.
Well i think i can blame Kenny for that.
He murdered her father, in such a brutal way right infront of her.
And the problem, with the ba… morendits just gave her the final push, to make a very huge mistake.
After that, she just wasn't able to make rational choices annymore which resulted in the shooting, of Carley/Doug.
So i dont see, her as responsible for doing such a terrible thing, as i said before Kenny started a horrible chain of events, by killing Larry.
Also, i respect your opinion
But this is just, how i feel about the shooting of Doug/Carley.
She also, found food, learned an important lesson and defended herself.
Im not saying she's a superhero, but IMO she is just as capable as any of the idiots from the cabin group. Nick literally sat there getting drunk, smashing things, waiting to die.
She was left alone for about 10 to 15 minutes and in that time she managed to get bit by a dog and almost get eaten. Had Luke and Pete not come to her rescue, we wouldn't have a season 2.
I find Clem much more competent in the tasks she undertook (and the adjustments to any mistakes she made during) than most - if not all, of the 'adult' characters in the game.
I just don't see Luke as a long-term caretaker for Clementine, unlike Christa, Lee, or Kenny—that last one as long as he doesn't engage into fights. Luke did care for the girl when in a tight spot, but they did get in tight spots anyway. Could you really say that—with the only information that the group had at the time—it was reasonable to think that it would be safe for Clementine to go with Luke to the bridge? Besides, every time he was with her, there were other people few meters, or yards, away from them. They never were in a situation where he was the only one who could look after her, so we haven't really seen how it could go.
Luke, err… I don't really think he'd make a good caretaker.
But why though?
From what we saw, Luke was great with Clementine. He … moreprotected her and treated her like she wasn't some brain dead kid. He wouldn't leave her to die had a situation called for it. He shielded her from a gun with his own body, which leaves me to believe that he'd die for her. Shit, he practically does if you choose to help Luke instead of cover him. He offered her a spot in his group despite some of them not wanting her there. He's morally in tact, maybe a bit too much. He would refuse any rest both traveling miles to get to the group and when he was shot in the leg, not wanting to slow the group down. He's a generally nice guy, and like Deltino said, he'd share a positive relationship with her and be a good influence on her.
Honestly, there's few things wrong with him in my opinion. Like how he bottles up his emotions to the point out outburst, i.e, acce… [view original content]
Much as I like Luke, I can think of a few reasons. He was careless at Carver's camp, leading to his capture and Kenny losing an eye. (Althou… moregh Kenny doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut!) Also, Luke deliberately left cover for no real reason. He might have been able to pull himself out of the lake if he wasn't shot.
She also, found food, learned an important lesson and defended herself.
Im not saying she's a superhero, but IMO she is just as capable a… mores any of the idiots from the cabin group. Nick literally sat there getting drunk, smashing things, waiting to die.
Luke can't take Nick because he thinks that Nick might to do something dangerous or rash. And he actually ended up doing that.
He can't take Carlos because Sarah has separation anxiety.
Alvin is about to be a father, and needs to make sure Rebecca isn't stressing, so it's probably not a good idea to take him.
Rebecca is pregnant.
Sarah can't help.
Who else is there to take? Clem can hold her own (to an extent) given that she just sewed up her own arm. It's got nothing to do with age, it's about capability and survival knowledge.
Well he shouldn't have asked a 11-year old child, to acccompany him on a broken bridge, even if it had just a few walkers on it.
Thats just… more, a very dumb idea in my opinion, he should have asked Nick to join him.
But instead he tells Clementine that he doesn't trust his own best friend, to tie his own shoes.
And if he, didn't trust Nick to cross, the bridge with him he could have always asked Carlos or Alvin, instead off bringing along a child on such a dangerous mission.
To be honest everyone in season 2 made clementine do everything, because she is the playable character. I cantthink of one character that was around for a while in season 2 that didnt
Oh crap, I forgot to reply to you, @InfiniteDawn.
I just don't see Luke as a long-term caretaker for Clementine, unlike Christa, Lee, or … moreKenny—that last one as long as he doesn't engage into fights. Luke did care for the girl when in a tight spot, but they did get in tight spots anyway. Could you really say that—with the only information that the group had at the time—it was reasonable to think that it would be safe for Clementine to go with Luke to the bridge? Besides, every time he was with her, there were other people few meters, or yards, away from them. They never were in a situation where he was the only one who could look after her, so we haven't really seen how it could go.
I Respect your opinion but i do, not agree with this points.
If Luke kept an eye on Nick, like bring him along, to cross the bridge with him.
He would have had less of a chance, of doing something rash because he wouldn't have had the gun, cause Alvin would have been the one on look-out.
Also just because, in his opinion Carlos or Alvin, cant leave Sarah & Rebecca because he thinks it would make those two stress.
Really isn't a understandable reason to think.
" Hey, lets bring along that child because i saw she can sew-up her own arm. "
Because, thats really not a good reason, to assume she would be capable of crossing a broken bridge aswell.
And if he really tought, he couldn't bring along one person of his group, he should have crossed that bridge alone.
Think about it.
Luke can't take Nick because he thinks that Nick might to do something dangerous or rash. And he actually ended up doing … morethat.
He can't take Carlos because Sarah has separation anxiety.
Alvin is about to be a father, and needs to make sure Rebecca isn't stressing, so it's probably not a good idea to take him.
Rebecca is pregnant.
Sarah can't help.
Who else is there to take? Clem can hold her own (to an extent) given that she just sewed up her own arm. It's got nothing to do with age, it's about capability and survival knowledge.
Walter, Sarita and Mike never asked her to do anything, as far as my memory goes. Anyway, my point wasn't that he made her do stuff for him, but that the few stuff he asked her to do was unreasonable, and could've easily been avoided, though I'm sure it was well intentioned, kind of. Determinantly asking her to cover him so that he could idly run to the other wall, all that knowing that this dude with an assault rifle would fire at them? Then the bridge situation where they almost died… then again—though the second one is on Nick. That was unnecessarily putting her at risk.
To be honest everyone in season 2 made clementine do everything, because she is the playable character. I cantthink of one character that was around for a while in season 2 that didnt
Sarita didnt argue against clementine helping in episode 3 (she doesnt really ever talk much anyway), neither did Mike (who actually helped her get out). Mike also was fine with clementine appealing to kenny and other tasks in episode 4.
Walter, Sarita and Mike never asked her to do anything, as far as my memory goes. Anyway, my point wasn't that he made her do stuff for him,… more but that the few stuff he asked her to do was unreasonable, and could've easily been avoided, though I'm sure it was well intentioned, kind of. Determinantly asking her to cover him so that he could idly run to the other wall, all that knowing that this dude with an assault rifle would fire at them? Then the bridge situation where they almost died… then again—though the second one is on Nick. That was unnecessarily putting her at risk.
I honestly think they all relied on Clementine too much, from babysitting Kenny, babysitting the baby, getting the walkie-talkies, taking the walkie-talkies to Luke, getting the water from the museum, climbing the lookout tower at the lodge, turning off the wind turbine, bringing down the rest of the deck, keeping an eye on Jane...there was no end to it. "No, I'll go" or "Let me do it" said no one ever.
Well he shouldn't have asked a 11-year old child, to acccompany him on a broken bridge, even if it had just a few walkers on it.
Thats just… more, a very dumb idea in my opinion, he should have asked Nick to join him.
But instead he tells Clementine that he doesn't trust his own best friend, to tie his own shoes.
And if he, didn't trust Nick to cross, the bridge with him he could have always asked Carlos or Alvin, instead off bringing along a child on such a dangerous mission.
Jane, assuming she doesn't take off again. Otherwise, I think a (well-functioning) group is necessary. People who have different experience,… more skill sets, and points of view are necessary. Checks and balances. Luke, Jane, Bonnie, Mike, Clem, and AJ would have probably stuck together and got along. Kenny was the monkey wrench.
Thanks, it's refreshing to hear that on this forum.
But I have to disagree. Keeping an eye on Nick wouldn't have done much, considering that even when Luke didn't take Nick with him, Nick didn't listen to either him OR Clem telling him not to shoot or put the gun down.
Also just because, in his opinion Carlos or Alvin, cant leave Sarah & Rebecca because he thinks it would make those two stress. Really isn't a understandable reason to think.
I think it's very understandable. When the group first gets to Howe's, we see that Sarah can barely go a few minutes without Carlos. She even says "I need him, I need my dad. He looks after me." Which is a dead giveaway for separation anxiety.
And Rebecca, especially since they're in the zombie apocalypse, is definitely going to need all the help she can get to raise a child. Which especially includes Alvin, her husband (and possibly father of AJ, I'm assuming it is since he doesn't look like Carver at all).
" Hey, lets bring along that child because i saw she can sew-up her own arm. "
Because, thats really not a good reason, to assume she would be capable of crossing a broken bridge aswell.
The bridge wasn't broken, actually. The bridge ended up breaking when Luke stepped on the wood of it. Only the train carriages had fallen before that point anyway. So to be fair, Clementine only saw a bit of the bridge from the binoculars and it didn't look all that bad. Walkers would have been the most they'd have to deal with (excluding people).
And I'm pretty sure that if a child her age can sew up her own arm (which let's not forget, is extremely painful. she almost fainted while doing it), then I'm pretty sure she'll be a-okay clearing out a few walkers and walking across it. I mean, look at what she did when Luke fell. She took out 3 walkers and managed to help Luke up from the hole. That's pretty impressive. I honestly think making the assumption that "oh, she's just a child. she shouldn't be crossing that bridge" is a bit limiting since she's done much more dangerous stuff. Frankly, age shouldn't even matter. It's about capability.
And if he really tought, he couldn't bring along one person of his group, he should have crossed that bridge alone.
I'm sorry, but that's an awful and dangerous idea. Can you imagine the entire bridge scene without Clementine? Luke would've cracked the wood, plummeted, and either have walkers pile on top of him and eat away at him or push him down 50 feet into the water. He would have died and the group possibly wouldn't have known.
I Respect your opinion but i do, not agree with this points.
If Luke kept an eye on Nick, like bring him along, to cross the bridge with… more him.
He would have had less of a chance, of doing something rash because he wouldn't have had the gun, cause Alvin would have been the one on look-out.
Also just because, in his opinion Carlos or Alvin, cant leave Sarah & Rebecca because he thinks it would make those two stress.
Really isn't a understandable reason to think.
" Hey, lets bring along that child because i saw she can sew-up her own arm. "
Because, thats really not a good reason, to assume she would be capable of crossing a broken bridge aswell.
And if he really tought, he couldn't bring along one person of his group, he should have crossed that bridge alone.
But i still, think it would have made the most sense, if he would have asked Nick with him to the bridge.
Because in my opinion, if he showed he would have had abit of trust towards Nick like take him with him onto the bridge, rather then asking a child along instead of his best friend.
Nick might have acted allot less reckless, then he did when Luke showed he had no trust towards him.
But instead Luke showed to Nick he had more trust in a child he barely knew to go with him on the bridge, so i can imagine Nick felt pretty bad after that.
Also like i said in my previous post atleast Nick wouldn't have acces to a rifle, so the dangerous mistakes he could make would be allot less, then if he where to be on lookout.
And since Nick, could still shot a guy from such a large distant he would, have been absolutely capable of handeling the walkers that where on the bridge.
So i still say, asking Clementine to join him on the bridge is in my opinion not a smart idea on his part.
Because even if he did know she could tolerate the pain of sewing up her own arm, there is now way he would be able to absolutely know, for sure if a 11-year old kid.
Would be capable, of going on such a dangerous mission with him.
Thanks, it's refreshing to hear that on this forum.
But I have to disagree. Keeping an eye on Nick wouldn't have done much, considering t… morehat even when Luke didn't take Nick with him, Nick didn't listen to either him OR Clem telling him not to shoot or put the gun down.
Also just because, in his opinion Carlos or Alvin, cant leave Sarah & Rebecca because he thinks it would make those two stress. Really isn't a understandable reason to think.
I think it's very understandable. When the group first gets to Howe's, we see that Sarah can barely go a few minutes without Carlos. She even says "I need him, I need my dad. He looks after me." Which is a dead giveaway for separation anxiety.
And Rebecca, especially since they're in the zombie apocalypse, is definitely going to need all the help she can get to raise a child. Which especially includes Alvin, her husband (and possibly father of AJ, I'm assuming it is since he doesn't… [view original content]
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I admit i missed the hairclips. But in NO way, does giving someone a hairclip mean you are capable of taking care of them. Lol.
What she says about Clem maybe getting sick, that is lily manipulating Lee to go look for the thief, through HIS concern for Clementines well being.
I don't agree with what Kenny did in the meat locker at all, and i always try to save Lily's dad. That it happened, does Not give her an excuse to shoot one of her own group for no reason though. In my opinion it makes it twice as bad that she would do to someone else what had just been done to her.
Then why cant Lily be held accountable for shooting someone in the face point blank, directly in front of a child?
Exactly.
That, is… exactly what she was doing. And she was right that it was the same. I don't personally consider it as manipulation as much as I consider it getting him to think about the possible outcome of opioid medicine going missing.
Actually, you might've missed it or forgotten it, but Lilly was seen accompanying Clementine and talking to her in one of Jolene's—the emotionally-unstable ex-Save Lots bandit—recordings. Add to that the hair thingies, and Clementine vaguely smiling when reminicising about Lilly on the train, and you have established that they had an overall good relationship.
Sure, they had a decent friendly aqquaintance. The same type most people would have in a group they were living with in close quarters for months on end. I get that. I did forget about Jolenes video, have to go watch it again.
But they aren't Close by any means IMO. And i still don't think that she would be a good caretaker/rolemodel for Clem. But thats just my opinion.
Thanks BettertoSleep for reminding me about those videos
We agree on that. It's more like they get along well rather than they are close. Being caged with people sure can get tiring at times, but it certainly creates an interesting dinamic between every single person there. That's why the idea of a community—cough-Wellington-cough—interests me a lot.
Actually, my canon ending is the Howe's with the family ending, but I'm personally much more interested in seeing what comes out of the Wellington ending.
Interesting dynamics for sure.
The thing about walled communities for me, is that they are just a giant cage. If you aren't the one with control over who comes and goes - you're a prisoner. And with the preconceptions all these 'adult' characters have thrown at Clem, about what she should or shouldn't be/do, i really don't have a lot of faith that any 'new' adults at some community will let Clem have much autonomy or say over herself and her life choices.
Therefore in my Canon, Clem and AJ head off by themselves. Hopefully we meet some people who arent complete arseholes?
In and back out again. Happens every time...
I honestly don't know what to expect of that ending, @Arya_Stupid. Story-wise, what could happen, other than Clementine looking for shelter and accidentally bumping into another group in the middle of a heated situation? I doubt she'll just find a settlement with residents, but I wish for it.
I don't really feel that way about communities, but that's just my opinion. Contrary to other colonies that we've encountered, Wellington gives me hope that we can live in a normal place with normal people. Not everyone needs to be a power-hungry dictator. This place/town/whatever gives me such a refreshing vibe, that I am just starting to write post-apocalyptic fiction—with original characters—and they seek to find Wellington. I'm revising a lot on writing, and I don't think I'll ever publish it anywhere. You could say I'm doing this for myself.
…anyway. With that chunk of off-topic personal info-dump aside, yeah, Lilly did care for Clementine to some degree, but they of course weren't as close as Clem and Lee. That's a rhyme!
It was nice talking to you!
I don't really know what to expect either, but i like that. I also like the idea that she may have more options being in the 'wild' as to who she chooses to form a group with or not. But i will definitely play through with the other endings as well, to see what happens.
I'm glad you find the idea of Wellington so compelling that it inspires you to write
thats awesome! Post-apocolyptic stories have always been some of my favorites, i find the setting really compelling. If you ever want someone to take a look at it, just hit me up with a pm. Ill give you my honest opinion - even if it rhymes. Lol.
Thanks for the conversation!
Looks like it :P
I'll be sure to do so, that's really nice!
Once.
ONCE.
But why though?
From what we saw, Luke was great with Clementine. He protected her and treated her like she wasn't some brain dead kid. He wouldn't leave her to die had a situation called for it. He shielded her from a gun with his own body, which leaves me to believe that he'd die for her. Shit, he practically does if you choose to help Luke instead of cover him. He offered her a spot in his group despite some of them not wanting her there. He's morally in tact, maybe a bit too much. He would refuse any rest both traveling miles to get to the group and when he was shot in the leg, not wanting to slow the group down. He's a generally nice guy, and like Deltino said, he'd share a positive relationship with her and be a good influence on her.
Honestly, there's few things wrong with him in my opinion. Like how he bottles up his emotions to the point out outburst, i.e, accepting Jane's offer to have sex (instead of getting violent or going crazy, thank God) after his best friend dies and Sarah determinantly gets ripped apart just below him. How he didn't want to kill Carver, someone he absolutely hated, despite the possibility of him coming back for them. But that was only because he felt as if it was wrong to do to Carver what he'd done to other people. Not wanting to tell Walter about Matthew, but to be fair, was understandable as he was doing that to make sure his best friend-- and entire group --weren't hurt or killed. And yelling at Sarah who was clearly traumatized and in a bad mental state (plus her disabililty), but to make sure neither of them died.
Shit, even most of the stuff that's considered bad that Luke does still has good intention. I just can't see why you'd think he wouldn't be a good caretaker.
To be fair, the bridge was never full of walkers. Only a few had popped out, but it wasn't anything they couldn't of handled.
She was left alone for about 10 to 15 minutes and in that time she managed to get bit by a dog and almost get eaten. Had Luke and Pete not come to her rescue, we wouldn't have a season 2.
That kind of doesn't work.
You see, the stranger set Clementine up to believe that her parents were alive and she trusted him. So is Clementine responsible for trusting him? Of course not. Hell, I'm sure that even an adult could fall for those kind of lies had it been their own parents or even their children.
Now with Lilly, you can't blame her for her father being brutally killed literally inches away from her eyes. It's absolutely horrific to see someone's head get crushed, let alone her own father's. So you can't really blame her for going off the deep end, the things people go through can make them go psychotic. But the things they do, they aren't excusable. Carley's context was a little more unnecessary than Doug's, seeing as she killed Carley because a) she thought she was the one giving the bandits supplies, and b) she basically got insulted by her. But Lilly wasn't aiming for Doug, she was aiming for Ben. Doug was just heroic enough to pull Ben out of the way and risk the shot himself.
Much as I like Luke, I can think of a few reasons. He was careless at Carver's camp, leading to his capture and Kenny losing an eye. (Although Kenny doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut!) Also, Luke deliberately left cover for no real reason. He might have been able to pull himself out of the lake if he wasn't shot.
Jane, assuming she doesn't take off again. Otherwise, I think a (well-functioning) group is necessary. People who have different experience, skill sets, and points of view are necessary. Checks and balances. Luke, Jane, Bonnie, Mike, Clem, and AJ would have probably stuck together and got along. Kenny was the monkey wrench.
Well he shouldn't have asked a 11-year old child, to acccompany him on a broken bridge, even if it had just a few walkers on it.
Thats just, a very dumb idea in my opinion, he should have asked Nick to join him.
But instead he tells Clementine that he doesn't trust his own best friend, to tie his own shoes.
And if he, didn't trust Nick to cross, the bridge with him he could have always asked Carlos or Alvin, instead off bringing along a child on such a dangerous mission.
It's more being hungry and tired from walking/running miles and miles than careless.
No adult is more capable than a 11 year old?
Clementine may be badass and shit, but she hasn't seen enough yet.
The way I always saw the scene is that Luke wasn't really thinking about how dangerous it was. He was looking at it as more of a character-building exercise with Clementine. I mean, we're talking about a guy who says he used to jump rooftops as a kid for fun. He can make a few comments related to it being fun. For example, if Clementine's hesitant about taking out the walkers near the bridge, Luke plays it off like "C'mon, it'll be fun!"
He's the thrill-seeking type that doesn't always realize how dangerous what he's doing is. He's the well-intentioned type of reckless. He isn't trying to put people in danger, he just doesn't really recognize how dangerous it is to begin with. Compare that to Kenny, who's more of the bad kind of reckless; he recognizes how dangerous what he's doing is, but he ignores it and puts people at risk knowingly.
Yes Kenny set this thing into motion....though I think everyone should have seen how unhinged Lilly had become after that. I will say that when you tell Katjaa what Kenny did, it is one of the reasons she shoots herself.
Ok so we all care about a pretend kid named Clementine....wait is this where I say "Well played TellTalegames...well played."?
She also, found food, learned an important lesson and defended herself.
Im not saying she's a superhero, but IMO she is just as capable as any of the idiots from the cabin group. Nick literally sat there getting drunk, smashing things, waiting to die.
To each their own.
I find Clem much more competent in the tasks she undertook (and the adjustments to any mistakes she made during) than most - if not all, of the 'adult' characters in the game.
If you don't, thats cool.
Oh crap, I forgot to reply to you, @InfiniteDawn.
I just don't see Luke as a long-term caretaker for Clementine, unlike Christa, Lee, or Kenny—that last one as long as he doesn't engage into fights. Luke did care for the girl when in a tight spot, but they did get in tight spots anyway. Could you really say that—with the only information that the group had at the time—it was reasonable to think that it would be safe for Clementine to go with Luke to the bridge? Besides, every time he was with her, there were other people few meters, or yards, away from them. They never were in a situation where he was the only one who could look after her, so we haven't really seen how it could go.
He went without sleep, food, and water. Of course he wouldn't be thinking straight.
Okay, yeah. She found food and learnt a valuable lesson, but none of that would have mattered had she died before Luke and Pete got to her.
Think about it.
Luke can't take Nick because he thinks that Nick might to do something dangerous or rash. And he actually ended up doing that.
He can't take Carlos because Sarah has separation anxiety.
Alvin is about to be a father, and needs to make sure Rebecca isn't stressing, so it's probably not a good idea to take him.
Rebecca is pregnant.
Sarah can't help.
Who else is there to take? Clem can hold her own (to an extent) given that she just sewed up her own arm. It's got nothing to do with age, it's about capability and survival knowledge.
To be honest everyone in season 2 made clementine do everything, because she is the playable character. I cantthink of one character that was around for a while in season 2 that didnt
I Respect your opinion
but i do, not agree with this points.
If Luke kept an eye on Nick, like bring him along, to cross the bridge with him.
He would have had less of a chance, of doing something rash because he wouldn't have had the gun, cause Alvin would have been the one on look-out.
Also just because, in his opinion Carlos or Alvin, cant leave Sarah & Rebecca because he thinks it would make those two stress.
Really isn't a understandable reason to think.
" Hey, lets bring along that child because i saw she can sew-up her own arm. "
Because, thats really not a good reason, to assume she would be capable of crossing a broken bridge aswell.
And if he really tought, he couldn't bring along one person of his group, he should have crossed that bridge alone.
Walter, Sarita and Mike never asked her to do anything, as far as my memory goes. Anyway, my point wasn't that he made her do stuff for him, but that the few stuff he asked her to do was unreasonable, and could've easily been avoided, though I'm sure it was well intentioned, kind of. Determinantly asking her to cover him so that he could idly run to the other wall, all that knowing that this dude with an assault rifle would fire at them? Then the bridge situation where they almost died… then again—though the second one is on Nick. That was unnecessarily putting her at risk.
Well Walter was around for half an episode.
Sarita didnt argue against clementine helping in episode 3 (she doesnt really ever talk much anyway), neither did Mike (who actually helped her get out). Mike also was fine with clementine appealing to kenny and other tasks in episode 4.
I honestly think they all relied on Clementine too much, from babysitting Kenny, babysitting the baby, getting the walkie-talkies, taking the walkie-talkies to Luke, getting the water from the museum, climbing the lookout tower at the lodge, turning off the wind turbine, bringing down the rest of the deck, keeping an eye on Jane...there was no end to it. "No, I'll go" or "Let me do it" said no one ever.
The word wrench is unnecessary
Thanks, it's refreshing to hear that on this forum.
But I have to disagree. Keeping an eye on Nick wouldn't have done much, considering that even when Luke didn't take Nick with him, Nick didn't listen to either him OR Clem telling him not to shoot or put the gun down.
I think it's very understandable. When the group first gets to Howe's, we see that Sarah can barely go a few minutes without Carlos. She even says "I need him, I need my dad. He looks after me." Which is a dead giveaway for separation anxiety.
And Rebecca, especially since they're in the zombie apocalypse, is definitely going to need all the help she can get to raise a child. Which especially includes Alvin, her husband (and possibly father of AJ, I'm assuming it is since he doesn't look like Carver at all).
Because, thats really not a good reason, to assume she would be capable of crossing a broken bridge aswell.
The bridge wasn't broken, actually. The bridge ended up breaking when Luke stepped on the wood of it. Only the train carriages had fallen before that point anyway. So to be fair, Clementine only saw a bit of the bridge from the binoculars and it didn't look all that bad. Walkers would have been the most they'd have to deal with (excluding people).
And I'm pretty sure that if a child her age can sew up her own arm (which let's not forget, is extremely painful. she almost fainted while doing it), then I'm pretty sure she'll be a-okay clearing out a few walkers and walking across it. I mean, look at what she did when Luke fell. She took out 3 walkers and managed to help Luke up from the hole. That's pretty impressive. I honestly think making the assumption that "oh, she's just a child. she shouldn't be crossing that bridge" is a bit limiting since she's done much more dangerous stuff. Frankly, age shouldn't even matter. It's about capability.
I'm sorry, but that's an awful and dangerous idea. Can you imagine the entire bridge scene without Clementine? Luke would've cracked the wood, plummeted, and either have walkers pile on top of him and eat away at him or push him down 50 feet into the water. He would have died and the group possibly wouldn't have known.
Fair points
But i still, think it would have made the most sense, if he would have asked Nick with him to the bridge.
Because in my opinion, if he showed he would have had abit of trust towards Nick like take him with him onto the bridge, rather then asking a child along instead of his best friend.
Nick might have acted allot less reckless, then he did when Luke showed he had no trust towards him.
But instead Luke showed to Nick he had more trust in a child he barely knew to go with him on the bridge, so i can imagine Nick felt pretty bad after that.
Also like i said in my previous post atleast Nick wouldn't have acces to a rifle, so the dangerous mistakes he could make would be allot less, then if he where to be on lookout.
And since Nick, could still shot a guy from such a large distant he would, have been absolutely capable of handeling the walkers that where on the bridge.
So i still say, asking Clementine to join him on the bridge is in my opinion not a smart idea on his part.
Because even if he did know she could tolerate the pain of sewing up her own arm, there is now way he would be able to absolutely know, for sure if a 11-year old kid.
Would be capable, of going on such a dangerous mission with him.
Everytime cuteclem comes back in, she just goes out again. What the heck did he/she even do wrong?