You don't have to delete it for me im not a Mod
But i just wanted to point this out to you, because people will start saying things like… more that to you aswell.
About characters you like, and i noticed you really dont appreciate when someone says something mean about Sarah for example.
Not trying to be rude btw
Just wanted to give you some advice
I have always thought this was strange but I mean, when Luke finds out about Nick's death in episode 4 (if you kept Nick alive in episode 2) he's trapped in a room with Sarah and she won't budge, walkers are just outside and are just about to break into the room so he doesn't have the opportunity to react to it much in that moment. If Nick dies in episode 2 then there's no way to know how Luke reacted because we don't see him again until midway into episode 3, he could have found Nick dead in episode 2 and mourned for him then.
Nick did say in episode 2 that he wished he could 'keep on moving' like Luke so, I would assume that Luke is good at pushing on, even after finding out about his loved ones deaths but, that is a trait you will unfortunately have to master in a zombie Apocalypse. I'm not saying Luke is perfect or that this is healthy reaction but, when Pete dies Luke sort of becomes like the 'leader' of the cabin group and he probably has this desire to lead the group (which is why him and Kenny clashed so much) and, as the leader, he may feel like he shouldn't break down and that he needs to remain calm otherwise he would be a pretty rubbish leader if his group is depending on him.
Luke did show that he was feeling upset about the deaths of the cabin group in episode 5 when he spoke to Clem about it so he wasn't emotionless, he probably just bottled it all up inside (for instance, when Bonnie comes over, he pretends like everything is fine but then he shares a look with Clementine and she can tell that he isn't fine).
I don't mean to write this to be an instigator of sorts, I just wanted to share my opinion on the subject:)
I have always thought this was strange but I mean, when Luke finds out about Nick's death in episode 4 (if you kept Nick alive in episode 2)… more he's trapped in a room with Sarah and she won't budge, walkers are just outside and are just about to break into the room so he doesn't have the opportunity to react to it much in that moment. If Nick dies in episode 2 then there's no way to know how Luke reacted because we don't see him again until midway into episode 3, he could have found Nick dead in episode 2 and mourned for him then.
Nick did say in episode 2 that he wished he could 'keep on moving' like Luke so, I would assume that Luke is good at pushing on, even after finding out about his loved ones deaths but, that is a trait you will unfortunately have to master in a zombie Apocalypse. I'm not saying Luke is perfect or that this is healthy reaction but, when Pete dies Luke sort of becomes like the 'leader' of the cabin group and he probabl… [view original content]
Alright, well could you let me know what you find dumb about it? I'm just curious, I didn't want to start any arguments, I just wanted to share my opinion and hear others opinions?:)
I think its interesting to read different opinions , what people think about this subject .
But that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with your post, because I don't think wanting to be the leader has much to do with this topic.
Regarding his friendship with Nick, And lets say if he wanted to make a good leader for the cabin group.
He would have showed trust towards Nick, instead off always acting like Nick couldn't do anything right.
I think we would have seen Nick acting allot more confident about himself if Luke showed more trust towards him.
Because Nick seemed to have allot of respect towards Luke, and his decisions.
So lets say the bridge-scene for example Luke shows to Nick he trust a 11-year old child more then he does him.
I can imagine if your best friend, who you respect allot and look up to, does something like that will make you feel pretty bad about yourself.
And even more, when you are in a state of mind like Nick was at that moment after just losing his Uncle, a few days before.
I have always thought this was strange but I mean, when Luke finds out about Nick's death in episode 4 (if you kept Nick alive in episode 2)… more he's trapped in a room with Sarah and she won't budge, walkers are just outside and are just about to break into the room so he doesn't have the opportunity to react to it much in that moment. If Nick dies in episode 2 then there's no way to know how Luke reacted because we don't see him again until midway into episode 3, he could have found Nick dead in episode 2 and mourned for him then.
Nick did say in episode 2 that he wished he could 'keep on moving' like Luke so, I would assume that Luke is good at pushing on, even after finding out about his loved ones deaths but, that is a trait you will unfortunately have to master in a zombie Apocalypse. I'm not saying Luke is perfect or that this is healthy reaction but, when Pete dies Luke sort of becomes like the 'leader' of the cabin group and he probabl… [view original content]
Okay, that's completely fine! I respect that you have a different opinion and I don't want to argue with it but I will say what my opinion is (again haha) - I think Luke wanting to be a leader has to do with the topic because his desire to always be the leader and hero is what made him so 'emotionally unavailable' towards Nick and other members of the group, he was focused on making sure everyone survived and was safe but didn't think too much about his own emotions and he didn't want to dwell on them too much (like when he finds out about Nick's death and comforts Rebecca when she is upset, because he probably wanted to keep her happy - although no-one will really know for sure). I'm not saying Luke was perfect or a perfect leader, he could have showed more trust towards Nick you're right but, you saw how Nick reacted towards Clementine when she was first brought into the group (he nearly shot her) and when he shot Matthew on the bridge - he does make a lot of irrational decisions sometimes and, because he was still upset over losing his Uncle, Luke might have thought he would be even more inclined to make a bad decision. I'm not saying Nick was a bad guy or that he had no reason to be upset, just that at that time, Luke probably thought he could endanger not only himself but the group if he were to come along with him and yeah, it probably didn't feel great that he brought along an 11 year old in his place but they all saw how valuable she was, even Alvin agrees when they are on the bridge.
I don't disagree with you in your opinion that Luke wasn't as sensitive towards Nick as he should have been, but I do think Luke did have his own reasons for making most (not all) of those seemingly insensitive decisions. I think if I was in a zombie apocalypse I would be similar to Luke in the way I may treat others because I guess, at the end of the day, most of the time you don't have the opportunity to wallow in your own self pity about death after death and, after living through so many, you probably get used to it after a while (you may not like it but you have seen so many deaths that it doesn't hurt you anymore) but again, I can't say any of this for definite - I don't mean to sound like I'm disregarding your opinion, it's just really hard to comment with a different opinion without seeming like you are trying to cause an argument:P
Haha, dont worry, your not being a instigator
I think its interesting to read different opinions , what people think about this subject … more.
But that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with your post, because I don't think wanting to be the leader has much to do with this topic.
Regarding his friendship with Nick, And lets say if he wanted to make a good leader for the cabin group.
He would have showed trust towards Nick, instead off always acting like Nick couldn't do anything right.
I think we would have seen Nick acting allot more confident about himself if Luke showed more trust towards him.
Because Nick seemed to have allot of respect towards Luke, and his decisions.
So lets say the bridge-scene for example Luke shows to Nick he trust a 11-year old child more then he does him.
I can imagine if your best friend, who you respect allot and look up to, does something like that will make you feel pretty bad about yourself.
And even m… [view original content]
There is nothing wrong with an arguement I guess .
I dont think bringing along Clementine, instead of Nick was a smart move at all.
Luke only knew Clementine for a few days, so I really dont think it made much sense for him to bring a 11-year old child.
Because there is no way Luke could have known, if Clementine would be able to go on such a dangerous mission with him.
Also if he would have took Nick with him, Nick wouldn't have access to the rifle, because Alvin would have been the one on look-out.
So if he asked Nick along with him, he would have not only showed to Nick he trusted him, he would have also created a situation.
For Nick, in which he didn't have access to a rifle, so he couldn't make such a huge mistake as shooting Matthew.
And while crossing the bridge together he could have also kept an eye on Nick, and I personally really believe.
That if this was the case Nick would not make a mistake on the bridge like he did when he was on look-out.
Because Luke's trust means allot to him.
And the fact when we meet Nick and he wants to shoot Clementine.
Again another rifle related inccident
So it would have been best to keep Nick away from a rifle, instead off letting him be the lookout while Clem & Luke cross the bridge.
And the fact about Luke not wallowing in self pitty.
Is a different thing then acting you dont care about the fact your best friend just died.
And the insensitive reactions towards Nick, i cannot come up with any good reason why Luke would act like that towards Nick.
Because it would be a small gesture to say towards Nick when he was afraid to go thru the herd of walkers.
" Hey Nick, i know you can do this. "
But anway i think this is just a disscusion we will not agree on
Ah okay that's good;)
Okay, that's completely fine! I respect that you have a different opinion and I don't want to argue with it but I w… moreill say what my opinion is (again haha) - I think Luke wanting to be a leader has to do with the topic because his desire to always be the leader and hero is what made him so 'emotionally unavailable' towards Nick and other members of the group, he was focused on making sure everyone survived and was safe but didn't think too much about his own emotions and he didn't want to dwell on them too much (like when he finds out about Nick's death and comforts Rebecca when she is upset, because he probably wanted to keep her happy - although no-one will really know for sure). I'm not saying Luke was perfect or a perfect leader, he could have showed more trust towards Nick you're right but, you saw how Nick reacted towards Clementine when she was first brought into the group (he nearly shot her) and when he shot M… [view original content]
Hm I guess so, they didn't really know her but I guess she proved that she wasn't a danger to them when she was locked in the shed because she could have escaped and stolen all of their things since they wouldn't have caught her if she didn't return back to the shed but you are right, they couldn't trust her 100%. Yeah that is true, maybe he wouldn't have done that but then again, I guess we wouldn't know for sure? Also, wouldn't taking away Nick's riffle or keeping an eye on him when they cross the bridge make it seem like Luke didn't trust him? I don't know - I would say that's it's unfair to blame Luke entirely for what happened to Matthew (not that you were blaming him entirely) because at the end of the day, Luke did tell them not to follow them until he gave them a signal and they all came along anyway so, if they did listen to him they probably wouldn't have been put into that situation, but I also don't think it's fair to put full blame Nick or anyone else.
Yeah I know, I mean he did show that he was upset that Nick was dead and that he cared about how he was when we met up with him again in the trailer and he asked 'Did Nick find you?' and then when Clem and Jane tell him the news he did react to it but it wasn't what you would expect from someone who has been best friends with the guy for years haha:p
There are some things like I said that you can't really explain - that comment was insensitive I know, the only reason I can really see why Luke said it was because he was feeling worried himself that they wouldn't make it or that he thought that was the best way to give him encouragement - sounds like a strange way of encouraging someone, I know - but I see Luke's attitude towards Nick almost similar to Pete's where he doesn't seem to 'molly coddle him' (which probably isn't the best phrase to use haha) he seems to be more firm and harsh like when Nick asked 'why are you always giving me a hard time?' and Pete says 'because you're always giving everyone else a hard time' and then Pete says that Nick needs to learn that no-one will care about whether he likes something or not and that he needs to grow up. Maybe Luke learned his attitude towards Nick from Pete, and maybe he thinks this is the best way to deal with him (because we don't know how he would react if he was treated differently I suppose, so we would never know what decisions he would make if things were different) and Pete did say 'sometimes you've gotta play a role, even if the people you love hate you for it' - then again, I can't say for sure because I'm not Luke (or am I...) haha I'm not and that was probably very weird;p
But yeah, it probably isn't haha so maybe we should leave it there:P
Thank you for having a calm discussion with me about this though:) I was worried that I was going to have a lot of Nick fans attack me for this! I know that Nick is a popular character and has a lot of fans that hate Luke for being kind of insensitive towards him so I know I'm playing the role of devils advocate haha;p
There is nothing wrong with an arguement I guess .
I dont think bringing along Clementine, instead of Nick was a smart move at all.
Luke… more only knew Clementine for a few days, so I really dont think it made much sense for him to bring a 11-year old child.
Because there is no way Luke could have known, if Clementine would be able to go on such a dangerous mission with him.
Also if he would have took Nick with him, Nick wouldn't have access to the rifle, because Alvin would have been the one on look-out.
So if he asked Nick along with him, he would have not only showed to Nick he trusted him, he would have also created a situation.
For Nick, in which he didn't have access to a rifle, so he couldn't make such a huge mistake as shooting Matthew.
And while crossing the bridge together he could have also kept an eye on Nick, and I personally really believe.
That if this was the case Nick would not make a mistake on the bridge like he did wh… [view original content]
Should I put up a list of things I noticed that were both positive and negative in Luke's treatment of Nick, or would that just take up too much space? (I'm also considering doing one for Sam and Paige since it was mentioned earlier)
Well Luke did try to get Clementine to forgive Nick after he shot at her when they first met. Luke also hugged Nick after informing him Pete died (if you chose to help Nick at the end of ep. 1). Then asks Clementine to keep an eye on him, since he knew his buddy was depressed over Pete's death and still not over his Mother's death, as Luke has seem to assume the role of leader in the group. Later, Luke tries to comfort Nick at the dinner table and then stops him from telling Walter the truth, because Luke's worried his friend will get himself killed. We can talk to Nick in ep. 3 about how he won't give up on Luke. And in ep. 4, when Nick dies and informing Luke, he seems pretty sad (imo) by saying depressingly "Fuck... fuck", but sadly gotta focus on the task at hand and leave the zombie horde behind. Just a few examples of Luke not totally being a terrible best bud.
While I agree Luke was not the greatest friend to Nick, I think this also had to do with the overall quality of writing throughout the episodes, and not so much a consisent characterization held of Luke throughout the game.
Episode 1: Luke is stern with Nick when he has to be, but does try to get Clementine to sympathize with Nick when he apologizes. Luke also assures Nick that his mother dying was not his fault. I think the first episodes did a fine job of building the foundation of a strong if somewhat strained relationship between the two.
Episode 2: Nick shares insight to Clementine that he and Luke have known each other for twenty years, started a business together, and that he's jealous of how he is able to keep moving. This also did a great job of creating depth between the two. Luke is sympathetic to Nick at first, hugging him if Pete died by the river. But, Luke knows Nick is prone to depression, and doesn't want to trust him with anything important during that time. He's a little condescending, but it's believable. We are still able to see how deeply Luke cares by comforting Nick at dinner and trying to protect Nick from Walter.
Episode 3: This is where things between them fall apart, much like thing in general, in my opinion. If Nick is dead Luke doesn't say anything. It's possible he was able to react off-screen (if someone that he pulled into the comic store told him) but that's not shown, and doesn't do anything to tie up that thread. If Nick is alive Nick is converted from semi-jealous friend to Luke's personal cheerleader. Their dynamic towards each other is completely exaggerated - Luke without so much as an acknowledgement, and Nick with nothing but acknowledgement. When they go into the horde, Nick reacts reasonably scared, and Luke again patronizes him by comparing his emotional strength to an eleven-year old. The only reason I still gave this behavior a pass was due to Luke's emotional state (having been starved, sleep-deprived, and beaten, resorting to prioritizing the group over individuals), on Nick's determinate status, and on how much they had to fit into Episode 3 already.
Episode 4: I'm almost convinced the people who wrote episode 4 did not play episodes 1 and 2. Nick follows Luke (he is his designated cheerleader, I guess), gets shot, and Luke doesn't seem to know anything about his death. I'm not balming him for getting Nick killed - we don't know how that played out, and it could have totally been on Nick. But then he says "fuck...fuck" and he presses on saving Sarah. I know time was of the essence but I didn't feel convinced by it, and even if the mourning needs to be breif, I still need to feel it. Best examples of quick mourning when time is of the essence: Lee mourning Chuck. Clem mourning her parents. Leland mourning Dee. I even felt more connection between Vernon and Brie when Brie died. While they all got the benefit of seeing the bodies, Luke could have still reacted a little more to his friend of 20+ years' death. He did a lot to keep Nick out of harm's way in epsiodes 1 and 2 and how he is characterized at this point does not make sense given that, and for that I blame the writers more. He even showed more emotion with Sarah's death, Alvin's death, and Rebecca's death. I appreciate the writers making him bring up Nick in episode 5 but by then it was too late to save that dropped thread.
To be honest, Nick was only Luke's "best friend" because of the lack of competition. Think about it. Who would he befriend? there's Sarah, the spasz; Carlos, Luke's antagonist; Alvin, will-less when it comes to his wife; And Rebecca, the asshole.
I guess Pete could've been a "best friend" but was too involved in watching Nick to make sure he didn't commit reckless actions seeing that his mom recently die.
As for Luke and Nick relationship, They were just business partner before all of this just happened. I would assume that he just have mutual respect for him as a person not a "friendship". Or perhaps he just griefs in silence and off screen.
Right? I never understood people liking him so much. Sure he is nice but he was so badly written. His reaction to Nick's death in episode 4 … morewas so UNREALISTIC and then changes the subject meaning they were never best friends. He doesn't even mention him if you let Walter kill him. Luke is the most careless person I've seen in this game, so overrated.
Given that Nick says that they've known each other for 20 years, and Luke is 26-27, that means they've known each other since they were around 6-year-old children. I know that doesn't necessarily make them best friends, but it does show they've had a long history that must build on something more than just respect to eventually grow up to become business partners. I would consider anyone that I've kept in touch with in my twenties that I had known in childhood my friend.
To be honest, Nick was only Luke's "best friend" because of the lack of competition. Think about it. Who would he befriend? there's Sarah, t… morehe spasz; Carlos, Luke's antagonist; Alvin, will-less when it comes to his wife; And Rebecca, the asshole.
I guess Pete could've been a "best friend" but was too involved in watching Nick to make sure he didn't commit reckless actions seeing that his mom recently die.
As for Luke and Nick relationship, They were just business partner before all of this just happened. I would assume that he just have mutual respect for him as a person not a "friendship". Or perhaps he just griefs in silence and off screen.
I think, it would be best if they would have just stayed both inside the trailer.
Because It was to me pretty obvious that going outside, w… moreould be a suicide mission (especially for Nick with his shoulder-wound), and I think Luke knew that aswell.
I think Nick at that point, in the series was just really in a dark place, as we had seen before in the cellar.
When he risked his own life, while attacking the walkers with the whisky jars.
So if Luke was his best friend, he should have known how Nick was and protect him from making such a bad choice.
Instead of encouraging him to go out of the trailer to look for help from the others.
And then there is the other scenario. ( Because we as player's dont know what exactly happend before we reach the trailer.)
In which Luke told to Nick, " Hey Nick, i think it'd be best if you go look for help. While i stay inside the trailer and look after Sarah "
And i really wouldn't put that past Luke… [view original content]
Useless? How can someone's existence be useless? Nick made some mistakes, boo freaking hoo, as if Luke was any better.
Not every human being can move on like Luke and it is wrong to push that 'trait' or whatever on everyone. You know, your last sentence makes you look like a heartless person, but I understand.
Nick was an adult, yes, indeed. Does that mean he can't be insecure in himself, feel sad, or anything at all? No, Luke was definitely not a good friend. Just a friend, well yeah, but he hadn't shown any proper positive feeling towards Nick.
I thought Nick was pretty useless. Luke is not Nick's dad and when Nick tried to think for himself he screwed it up every time. Luke was tou… moregh Nick said so himself that Luke can take it and just keep going he does not have time for crying he wanted to live. Be glad Luke was a nice guy and did not leave him to die a long time ago.
I really don't think it was Luke's place to act like that towards Nick.
Luke was his friend not his Uncle/Father Figure.
I first wanted to type a long reply again why I think it was a very bad move from Luke to try to copy's Pete's way of acting towards Nick.
But I think we will start another arguement again then haha
And the part about the calm disscusion I agree nice talking to you to
Hm I guess so, they didn't really know her but I guess she proved that she wasn't a danger to them when she was locked in the shed because s… morehe could have escaped and stolen all of their things since they wouldn't have caught her if she didn't return back to the shed but you are right, they couldn't trust her 100%. Yeah that is true, maybe he wouldn't have done that but then again, I guess we wouldn't know for sure? Also, wouldn't taking away Nick's riffle or keeping an eye on him when they cross the bridge make it seem like Luke didn't trust him? I don't know - I would say that's it's unfair to blame Luke entirely for what happened to Matthew (not that you were blaming him entirely) because at the end of the day, Luke did tell them not to follow them until he gave them a signal and they all came along anyway so, if they did listen to him they probably wouldn't have been put into that situation, but I also don't think it's fair to put full bla… [view original content]
I Agree, even thought it is a video-game it was really sad to see.
How Luke acted like Nick was some kind of helpless child, while Nick thought Luke was his best friend.
But the saddest part I think is, Nick really isn't so helpless as Luke's think he is.
Because he confronted Walter, after he shot Matthew imo that scene shows Nick is actually.
A really strong individual because it takes courage to confront someone who's partner you accidently killed.
And like i said in some other posts in this topic I honestly think if Luke showed some sympathy/trust towards Nick.
He would have acted allot more confident about himself because Luke's opinion is very important to Nick.
Should I put up a list of things I noticed that were both positive and negative in Luke's treatment of Nick, or would that just take up too much space? (I'm also considering doing one for Sam and Paige since it was mentioned earlier)
Right? I never understood people liking him so much. Sure he is nice but he was so badly written. His reaction to Nick's death in episode 4 … morewas so UNREALISTIC and then changes the subject meaning they were never best friends. He doesn't even mention him if you let Walter kill him. Luke is the most careless person I've seen in this game, so overrated.
Though I agree that some aspects, mainly Nicks episode 4 death, could've used some extra detail to orchestrate, I kinda believe that their strained relationship helped to exude the underlying theme in this season.
I mean you guys remember how our game started, all happy talking about who we would name the child (oh god the feels...) and then a couple months later Clem and Christa are barely able to smile at each other. The feeling is completely cold now, even though it wasn't that great to end with in season one. And I mean even when Luke and Pete find us (is that his name? Whoever he was) they themselves weren't exactly having a ho down before they found Clem.
I just feel like Luke and Nicks relationship was strained because that's how relationships kinda worked in season two. I mean let's look at the transformation of Bonnie. She started out pretty hopeful that she could help us (well technically she started out w/ Carver, but moving on) and her and Mike were the most positive ones about not only the group but other people. And who turns out to be the 2/3 ppl to screw you over in the last episode?
I just feel like the idea of solitude, hopelessness, and strained relationships are some of the many themes of this season. Like no matter how many people you have around you, you will always be by yourself
They are more harsh best friends. I myself had a friend I was pretty close with and we argued all the time. Anyway I've never doubted that Luke cared deeply about Nick even though he may have been harsh at times.
Yeah, I'm one of the 3 people that thought Luke was a dick, I'd also like to add that he was more upset about Jane leaving then Nick dying. Girl he met yesterday> guy he knew 20 years.
I think Luke probably cared for Nick... but not that much. Nick was a VERY insecure person. And insecure people have a tendency to get on the nerves of others.
Quite frankly, Nick was way to old to need a babysitter. And I got a sense that that's how Luke probably felt, like he had to babysit him. And that is very aggrivating when you have to look after not only yourself, but also a grown man who should be self sufficient.
And personally, I think Clementine's importance in S2, particularly how big a role she played in the group, was a little far-fetched.
A lot of people have already posted what I thought about the Luke/Nick friendship, but I would like to point out that what focus was on that was pretty much stripped in the episodes that focused on Carver, Kenny, and Jane.
As for Sam and Paige, I think Sam did at least kind of care for Paige. The only reasons that I have for thinking this however are that she didn't try to get Paige to leave and that she trusts her with taking care of James and Alex.
Which sorta brings me back to the Luke and Nick thing. Luke seeming to care more about Jane than Nick is probably the result of bad writing, but caring a lot about Jane leaving does make some sense when you add that everyone he cares about is leaving (dying) in some way or another, and he probably considered her part of the group.
I feel like I sorta derailed, but I hope I got out there what I wanted to about it.
A lot of people have already posted what I thought about the Luke/Nick friendship, but I would like to point out that what focus was on that… more was pretty much stripped in the episodes that focused on Carver, Kenny, and Jane.
As for Sam and Paige, I think Sam did at least kind of care for Paige. The only reasons that I have for thinking this however are that she didn't try to get Paige to leave and that she trusts her with taking care of James and Alex.
Which sorta brings me back to the Luke and Nick thing. Luke seeming to care more about Jane than Nick is probably the result of bad writing, but caring a lot about Jane leaving does make some sense when you add that everyone he cares about is leaving (dying) in some way or another, and he probably considered her part of the group.
I feel like I sorta derailed, but I hope I got out there what I wanted to about it.
I disagree. Luke treated Nick like a friend whom he thought was losing his grip on reality. The apocalypse is going to strain even the best of friendships. Look at what happened between Rick and Shane; granted their relationship was complicated by the affair b/t Shane and Lori, but still. Luke felt that Nick was becoming unhinged and wanted to keep him at a safe distance.
As for Luke caring more about Jane than Nick...Jane was someone that could've provided a future for Luke.
Nick was a VERY insecure person. And insecure people have a tendency to get on the nerves of others
I really do not agree with this, if you have a friend who is insecure about himself.
You try to act in a way towards them, that makes them feel more confident about themself.
And if Luke was already 20 years a good friend, of Nick why did he continue the friendship for that long.
If Nick got on his nerves ?
I think Luke probably cared for Nick... but not that much. Nick was a VERY insecure person. And insecure people have a tendency to get on th… moree nerves of others.
Quite frankly, Nick was way to old to need a babysitter. And I got a sense that that's how Luke probably felt, like he had to babysit him. And that is very aggrivating when you have to look after not only yourself, but also a grown man who should be self sufficient.
And personally, I think Clementine's importance in S2, particularly how big a role she played in the group, was a little far-fetched.
I think Luke probably cared for Nick... but not that much. Nick was a VERY insecure person. And insecure people have a tendency to get on th… moree nerves of others.
Quite frankly, Nick was way to old to need a babysitter. And I got a sense that that's how Luke probably felt, like he had to babysit him. And that is very aggrivating when you have to look after not only yourself, but also a grown man who should be self sufficient.
And personally, I think Clementine's importance in S2, particularly how big a role she played in the group, was a little far-fetched.
Nick's insecurities is more in the line of depression and self-worthlessness along with dealing with the death of his mother in the zombie apocalypse, which seems to be evident about how Pete and Luke is shown to put him down with their words from time to time, which doesn't help his self-esteem one bit, especially when there's no medication/treatment for it.
Nick's problems may have irritated Pete and Luke, but ideally they could have handed Nick's situation better by being a bit more supportive and tactful instead of being quick to point out his flaws or making comparison to a child who appeared more capable than him in his worse moments.
I know because it's happened to me. I went through a stage at one time where I was very insecure, and as a result, I know it irritated others.
Not that actually came out and said it, but I could detect it in their voice.
Nick's insecurities is more in the line of depression and self-worthlessness along with dealing with the death of his mother in the zombie a… morepocalypse, which seems to be evident about how Pete and Luke is shown to put him down with their words from time to time, which doesn't help his self-esteem one bit, especially when there's no medication/treatment for it.
Nick's problems may have irritated Pete and Luke, but ideally they could have handed Nick's situation better by being a bit more supportive and tactful instead of being quick to point out his flaws or making comparison to a child who appeared more capable than him in his worse moments.
Luke was all over the shop. He'd come off as a nice caring guy, then would become self obsessed. Luke caring more about sex then the survival of the group and a woman about to have a baby is messed up.
Your hand is there for a reason. I actually wonder how many of the fangirls who thought Lukey boy was cute and a babe felt when was exposed as a sleazy, self absorbed, dirty bag who cared more about a hook up, then other people.
I bet they all probably forgave thinking it wasn't his fault.
I'll make it blunt.
He was thinking about the group or the baby when he had his dick inside of Jane now did he?
I know because it's happened to me. I went through a stage at one time where I was very insecure, and as a result, I know it irritated others.
Not that actually came out and said it, but I could detect it in their voice.
Maybe it had to do with the qualities of nicks personality, they may have been great friends in pre ZA times with qualities luke liked but now shits got real and those quirks are a hindrance in the new world they live in.
Nick's insecurities is more in the line of depression and self-worthlessness along with dealing with the death of his mother in the zombie a… morepocalypse, which seems to be evident about how Pete and Luke is shown to put him down with their words from time to time, which doesn't help his self-esteem one bit, especially when there's no medication/treatment for it.
Nick's problems may have irritated Pete and Luke, but ideally they could have handed Nick's situation better by being a bit more supportive and tactful instead of being quick to point out his flaws or making comparison to a child who appeared more capable than him in his worse moments.
I get his point, just because someone is insecure doesn't automatically mean people have to help or like them. Nor does it mean you are incapable of being annoying.
The Luke and Nick relationships seems to be one of best friends (care about each other while also being direct) until Nick can determinately die and then pretty much everything to do with him was dropped
And if Luke was already 20 years a good friend, of Nick why did he continue the friendship for that long. If Nick got on his nerves ?
I think him being a bit annoyed with Nick during the course of the game is fair enough given all the stuff he does. Im not sure the intensive week we knew them can be a good enough tell of any of the cabin group.
Nick was a VERY insecure person. And insecure people have a tendency to get on the nerves of others
I really do not agree with this,… more if you have a friend who is insecure about himself.
You try to act in a way towards them, that makes them feel more confident about themself.
And if Luke was already 20 years a good friend, of Nick why did he continue the friendship for that long.
If Nick got on his nerves ?
There is a difference between Luke being abit annoyed with Nick.
Or him acting in a way towards Nick, that Nick is some sort of helpless child that cant do anything right.
And if Luke was already 20 years a good friend, of Nick why did he continue the friendship for that long. If Nick got on his nerves ?
… more I think him being a bit annoyed with Nick during the course of the game is fair enough given all the stuff he does. Im not sure the intensive week we knew them can be a good enough tell of any of the cabin group.
I really think if this is the case, it would make Luke seem like a heartless person.
Because, you dont just change your additude towards a friend you have for a long time.
Just because the apacoalypse started, you try to support that person imo even if they make some bad descisions sometimes.
Maybe it had to do with the qualities of nicks personality, they may have been great friends in pre ZA times with qualities luke liked but now shits got real and those quirks are a hindrance in the new world they live in.
Comments
I know you're giving me advice ;P
That's why I did it.
I have always thought this was strange but I mean, when Luke finds out about Nick's death in episode 4 (if you kept Nick alive in episode 2) he's trapped in a room with Sarah and she won't budge, walkers are just outside and are just about to break into the room so he doesn't have the opportunity to react to it much in that moment. If Nick dies in episode 2 then there's no way to know how Luke reacted because we don't see him again until midway into episode 3, he could have found Nick dead in episode 2 and mourned for him then.
Nick did say in episode 2 that he wished he could 'keep on moving' like Luke so, I would assume that Luke is good at pushing on, even after finding out about his loved ones deaths but, that is a trait you will unfortunately have to master in a zombie Apocalypse. I'm not saying Luke is perfect or that this is healthy reaction but, when Pete dies Luke sort of becomes like the 'leader' of the cabin group and he probably has this desire to lead the group (which is why him and Kenny clashed so much) and, as the leader, he may feel like he shouldn't break down and that he needs to remain calm otherwise he would be a pretty rubbish leader if his group is depending on him.
Luke did show that he was feeling upset about the deaths of the cabin group in episode 5 when he spoke to Clem about it so he wasn't emotionless, he probably just bottled it all up inside (for instance, when Bonnie comes over, he pretends like everything is fine but then he shares a look with Clementine and she can tell that he isn't fine).
I don't mean to write this to be an instigator of sorts, I just wanted to share my opinion on the subject:)
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Alright, well could you let me know what you find dumb about it? I'm just curious, I didn't want to start any arguments, I just wanted to share my opinion and hear others opinions?:)
Haha, dont worry, your not being a instigator
I think its interesting to read different opinions , what people think about this subject
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But that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with your post, because I don't think wanting to be the leader has much to do with this topic.
Regarding his friendship with Nick, And lets say if he wanted to make a good leader for the cabin group.
He would have showed trust towards Nick, instead off always acting like Nick couldn't do anything right.
I think we would have seen Nick acting allot more confident about himself if Luke showed more trust towards him.
Because Nick seemed to have allot of respect towards Luke, and his decisions.
So lets say the bridge-scene for example Luke shows to Nick he trust a 11-year old child more then he does him.
I can imagine if your best friend, who you respect allot and look up to, does something like that will make you feel pretty bad about yourself.
And even more, when you are in a state of mind like Nick was at that moment after just losing his Uncle, a few days before.
Ah okay that's good;)
Okay, that's completely fine! I respect that you have a different opinion and I don't want to argue with it but I will say what my opinion is (again haha) - I think Luke wanting to be a leader has to do with the topic because his desire to always be the leader and hero is what made him so 'emotionally unavailable' towards Nick and other members of the group, he was focused on making sure everyone survived and was safe but didn't think too much about his own emotions and he didn't want to dwell on them too much (like when he finds out about Nick's death and comforts Rebecca when she is upset, because he probably wanted to keep her happy - although no-one will really know for sure). I'm not saying Luke was perfect or a perfect leader, he could have showed more trust towards Nick you're right but, you saw how Nick reacted towards Clementine when she was first brought into the group (he nearly shot her) and when he shot Matthew on the bridge - he does make a lot of irrational decisions sometimes and, because he was still upset over losing his Uncle, Luke might have thought he would be even more inclined to make a bad decision. I'm not saying Nick was a bad guy or that he had no reason to be upset, just that at that time, Luke probably thought he could endanger not only himself but the group if he were to come along with him and yeah, it probably didn't feel great that he brought along an 11 year old in his place but they all saw how valuable she was, even Alvin agrees when they are on the bridge.
I don't disagree with you in your opinion that Luke wasn't as sensitive towards Nick as he should have been, but I do think Luke did have his own reasons for making most (not all) of those seemingly insensitive decisions. I think if I was in a zombie apocalypse I would be similar to Luke in the way I may treat others because I guess, at the end of the day, most of the time you don't have the opportunity to wallow in your own self pity about death after death and, after living through so many, you probably get used to it after a while (you may not like it but you have seen so many deaths that it doesn't hurt you anymore) but again, I can't say any of this for definite - I don't mean to sound like I'm disregarding your opinion, it's just really hard to comment with a different opinion without seeming like you are trying to cause an argument:P
There is nothing wrong with an arguement I guess
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I dont think bringing along Clementine, instead of Nick was a smart move at all.
Luke only knew Clementine for a few days, so I really dont think it made much sense for him to bring a 11-year old child.
Because there is no way Luke could have known, if Clementine would be able to go on such a dangerous mission with him.
Also if he would have took Nick with him, Nick wouldn't have access to the rifle, because Alvin would have been the one on look-out.
So if he asked Nick along with him, he would have not only showed to Nick he trusted him, he would have also created a situation.
For Nick, in which he didn't have access to a rifle, so he couldn't make such a huge mistake as shooting Matthew.
And while crossing the bridge together he could have also kept an eye on Nick, and I personally really believe.
That if this was the case Nick would not make a mistake on the bridge like he did when he was on look-out.
Because Luke's trust means allot to him.
And the fact when we meet Nick and he wants to shoot Clementine.
Again another rifle related inccident
So it would have been best to keep Nick away from a rifle, instead off letting him be the lookout while Clem & Luke cross the bridge.
And the fact about Luke not wallowing in self pitty.
Is a different thing then acting you dont care about the fact your best friend just died.
And the insensitive reactions towards Nick, i cannot come up with any good reason why Luke would act like that towards Nick.
Because it would be a small gesture to say towards Nick when he was afraid to go thru the herd of walkers.
" Hey Nick, i know you can do this. "
But anway i think this is just a disscusion we will not agree on
But I respect your opinion aswell
Hm I guess so, they didn't really know her but I guess she proved that she wasn't a danger to them when she was locked in the shed because she could have escaped and stolen all of their things since they wouldn't have caught her if she didn't return back to the shed but you are right, they couldn't trust her 100%. Yeah that is true, maybe he wouldn't have done that but then again, I guess we wouldn't know for sure? Also, wouldn't taking away Nick's riffle or keeping an eye on him when they cross the bridge make it seem like Luke didn't trust him? I don't know - I would say that's it's unfair to blame Luke entirely for what happened to Matthew (not that you were blaming him entirely) because at the end of the day, Luke did tell them not to follow them until he gave them a signal and they all came along anyway so, if they did listen to him they probably wouldn't have been put into that situation, but I also don't think it's fair to put full blame Nick or anyone else.
Yeah I know, I mean he did show that he was upset that Nick was dead and that he cared about how he was when we met up with him again in the trailer and he asked 'Did Nick find you?' and then when Clem and Jane tell him the news he did react to it but it wasn't what you would expect from someone who has been best friends with the guy for years haha:p
There are some things like I said that you can't really explain - that comment was insensitive I know, the only reason I can really see why Luke said it was because he was feeling worried himself that they wouldn't make it or that he thought that was the best way to give him encouragement - sounds like a strange way of encouraging someone, I know - but I see Luke's attitude towards Nick almost similar to Pete's where he doesn't seem to 'molly coddle him' (which probably isn't the best phrase to use haha) he seems to be more firm and harsh like when Nick asked 'why are you always giving me a hard time?' and Pete says 'because you're always giving everyone else a hard time' and then Pete says that Nick needs to learn that no-one will care about whether he likes something or not and that he needs to grow up. Maybe Luke learned his attitude towards Nick from Pete, and maybe he thinks this is the best way to deal with him (because we don't know how he would react if he was treated differently I suppose, so we would never know what decisions he would make if things were different) and Pete did say 'sometimes you've gotta play a role, even if the people you love hate you for it' - then again, I can't say for sure because I'm not Luke (or am I...) haha I'm not and that was probably very weird;p
But yeah, it probably isn't haha so maybe we should leave it there:P
Thank you for having a calm discussion with me about this though:) I was worried that I was going to have a lot of Nick fans attack me for this! I know that Nick is a popular character and has a lot of fans that hate Luke for being kind of insensitive towards him so I know I'm playing the role of devils advocate haha;p
Should I put up a list of things I noticed that were both positive and negative in Luke's treatment of Nick, or would that just take up too much space? (I'm also considering doing one for Sam and Paige since it was mentioned earlier)
Well Luke did try to get Clementine to forgive Nick after he shot at her when they first met. Luke also hugged Nick after informing him Pete died (if you chose to help Nick at the end of ep. 1). Then asks Clementine to keep an eye on him, since he knew his buddy was depressed over Pete's death and still not over his Mother's death, as Luke has seem to assume the role of leader in the group. Later, Luke tries to comfort Nick at the dinner table and then stops him from telling Walter the truth, because Luke's worried his friend will get himself killed. We can talk to Nick in ep. 3 about how he won't give up on Luke. And in ep. 4, when Nick dies and informing Luke, he seems pretty sad (imo) by saying depressingly "Fuck... fuck", but sadly gotta focus on the task at hand and leave the zombie horde behind. Just a few examples of Luke not totally being a terrible best bud.
While I agree Luke was not the greatest friend to Nick, I think this also had to do with the overall quality of writing throughout the episodes, and not so much a consisent characterization held of Luke throughout the game.
Episode 1: Luke is stern with Nick when he has to be, but does try to get Clementine to sympathize with Nick when he apologizes. Luke also assures Nick that his mother dying was not his fault. I think the first episodes did a fine job of building the foundation of a strong if somewhat strained relationship between the two.
Episode 2: Nick shares insight to Clementine that he and Luke have known each other for twenty years, started a business together, and that he's jealous of how he is able to keep moving. This also did a great job of creating depth between the two. Luke is sympathetic to Nick at first, hugging him if Pete died by the river. But, Luke knows Nick is prone to depression, and doesn't want to trust him with anything important during that time. He's a little condescending, but it's believable. We are still able to see how deeply Luke cares by comforting Nick at dinner and trying to protect Nick from Walter.
Episode 3: This is where things between them fall apart, much like thing in general, in my opinion. If Nick is dead Luke doesn't say anything. It's possible he was able to react off-screen (if someone that he pulled into the comic store told him) but that's not shown, and doesn't do anything to tie up that thread. If Nick is alive Nick is converted from semi-jealous friend to Luke's personal cheerleader. Their dynamic towards each other is completely exaggerated - Luke without so much as an acknowledgement, and Nick with nothing but acknowledgement. When they go into the horde, Nick reacts reasonably scared, and Luke again patronizes him by comparing his emotional strength to an eleven-year old. The only reason I still gave this behavior a pass was due to Luke's emotional state (having been starved, sleep-deprived, and beaten, resorting to prioritizing the group over individuals), on Nick's determinate status, and on how much they had to fit into Episode 3 already.
Episode 4: I'm almost convinced the people who wrote episode 4 did not play episodes 1 and 2. Nick follows Luke (he is his designated cheerleader, I guess), gets shot, and Luke doesn't seem to know anything about his death. I'm not balming him for getting Nick killed - we don't know how that played out, and it could have totally been on Nick. But then he says "fuck...fuck" and he presses on saving Sarah. I know time was of the essence but I didn't feel convinced by it, and even if the mourning needs to be breif, I still need to feel it. Best examples of quick mourning when time is of the essence: Lee mourning Chuck. Clem mourning her parents. Leland mourning Dee. I even felt more connection between Vernon and Brie when Brie died. While they all got the benefit of seeing the bodies, Luke could have still reacted a little more to his friend of 20+ years' death. He did a lot to keep Nick out of harm's way in epsiodes 1 and 2 and how he is characterized at this point does not make sense given that, and for that I blame the writers more. He even showed more emotion with Sarah's death, Alvin's death, and Rebecca's death. I appreciate the writers making him bring up Nick in episode 5 but by then it was too late to save that dropped thread.
To be honest, Nick was only Luke's "best friend" because of the lack of competition. Think about it. Who would he befriend? there's Sarah, the spasz; Carlos, Luke's antagonist; Alvin, will-less when it comes to his wife; And Rebecca, the asshole.
I guess Pete could've been a "best friend" but was too involved in watching Nick to make sure he didn't commit reckless actions seeing that his mom recently die.
As for Luke and Nick relationship, They were just business partner before all of this just happened. I would assume that he just have mutual respect for him as a person not a "friendship". Or perhaps he just griefs in silence and off screen.
Given that Nick says that they've known each other for 20 years, and Luke is 26-27, that means they've known each other since they were around 6-year-old children. I know that doesn't necessarily make them best friends, but it does show they've had a long history that must build on something more than just respect to eventually grow up to become business partners. I would consider anyone that I've kept in touch with in my twenties that I had known in childhood my friend.
It's so sad, even though it's a video game, how Luke meant like everything to Nick yet he didn't feel a thing compared to him.
Useless? How can someone's existence be useless? Nick made some mistakes, boo freaking hoo, as if Luke was any better.
Not every human being can move on like Luke and it is wrong to push that 'trait' or whatever on everyone. You know, your last sentence makes you look like a heartless person, but I understand.
Nick was an adult, yes, indeed. Does that mean he can't be insecure in himself, feel sad, or anything at all? No, Luke was definitely not a good friend. Just a friend, well yeah, but he hadn't shown any proper positive feeling towards Nick.
I really don't think it was Luke's place to act like that towards Nick.
Luke was his friend not his Uncle/Father Figure.
I first wanted to type a long reply again why I think it was a very bad move from Luke to try to copy's Pete's way of acting towards Nick.
But I think we will start another arguement again then haha
And the part about the calm disscusion I agree nice talking to you to
I Agree, even thought it is a video-game it was really sad to see.
How Luke acted like Nick was some kind of helpless child, while Nick thought Luke was his best friend.
But the saddest part I think is, Nick really isn't so helpless as Luke's think he is.
Because he confronted Walter, after he shot Matthew imo that scene shows Nick is actually.
A really strong individual because it takes courage to confront someone who's partner you accidently killed.
And like i said in some other posts in this topic I honestly think if Luke showed some sympathy/trust towards Nick.
He would have acted allot more confident about himself because Luke's opinion is very important to Nick.
It was a really one sided friendship
I'd say go for it
Im intrested to read your list about your thoughts on both of their friendships.
Agreed. Almost every character was badly written in S2
Though I agree that some aspects, mainly Nicks episode 4 death, could've used some extra detail to orchestrate, I kinda believe that their strained relationship helped to exude the underlying theme in this season.
I mean you guys remember how our game started, all happy talking about who we would name the child (oh god the feels...) and then a couple months later Clem and Christa are barely able to smile at each other. The feeling is completely cold now, even though it wasn't that great to end with in season one. And I mean even when Luke and Pete find us (is that his name? Whoever he was) they themselves weren't exactly having a ho down before they found Clem.
I just feel like Luke and Nicks relationship was strained because that's how relationships kinda worked in season two. I mean let's look at the transformation of Bonnie. She started out pretty hopeful that she could help us (well technically she started out w/ Carver, but moving on) and her and Mike were the most positive ones about not only the group but other people. And who turns out to be the 2/3 ppl to screw you over in the last episode?
I just feel like the idea of solitude, hopelessness, and strained relationships are some of the many themes of this season. Like no matter how many people you have around you, you will always be by yourself
They are more harsh best friends. I myself had a friend I was pretty close with and we argued all the time. Anyway I've never doubted that Luke cared deeply about Nick even though he may have been harsh at times.
Yeah, I'm one of the 3 people that thought Luke was a dick, I'd also like to add that he was more upset about Jane leaving then Nick dying. Girl he met yesterday> guy he knew 20 years.
I think Luke probably cared for Nick... but not that much. Nick was a VERY insecure person. And insecure people have a tendency to get on the nerves of others.
Quite frankly, Nick was way to old to need a babysitter. And I got a sense that that's how Luke probably felt, like he had to babysit him. And that is very aggrivating when you have to look after not only yourself, but also a grown man who should be self sufficient.
And personally, I think Clementine's importance in S2, particularly how big a role she played in the group, was a little far-fetched.
A lot of people have already posted what I thought about the Luke/Nick friendship, but I would like to point out that what focus was on that was pretty much stripped in the episodes that focused on Carver, Kenny, and Jane.
As for Sam and Paige, I think Sam did at least kind of care for Paige. The only reasons that I have for thinking this however are that she didn't try to get Paige to leave and that she trusts her with taking care of James and Alex.
Which sorta brings me back to the Luke and Nick thing. Luke seeming to care more about Jane than Nick is probably the result of bad writing, but caring a lot about Jane leaving does make some sense when you add that everyone he cares about is leaving (dying) in some way or another, and he probably considered her part of the group.
I feel like I sorta derailed, but I hope I got out there what I wanted to about it.
I did forget something, but I forgot what.
I disagree. Luke treated Nick like a friend whom he thought was losing his grip on reality. The apocalypse is going to strain even the best of friendships. Look at what happened between Rick and Shane; granted their relationship was complicated by the affair b/t Shane and Lori, but still. Luke felt that Nick was becoming unhinged and wanted to keep him at a safe distance.
As for Luke caring more about Jane than Nick...Jane was someone that could've provided a future for Luke.
I really do not agree with this, if you have a friend who is insecure about himself.
You try to act in a way towards them, that makes them feel more confident about themself.
And if Luke was already 20 years a good friend, of Nick why did he continue the friendship for that long.
If Nick got on his nerves ?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
I know because it's happened to me. I went through a stage at one time where I was very insecure, and as a result, I know it irritated others.
Not that actually came out and said it, but I could detect it in their voice.
Nick's insecurities is more in the line of depression and self-worthlessness along with dealing with the death of his mother in the zombie apocalypse, which seems to be evident about how Pete and Luke is shown to put him down with their words from time to time, which doesn't help his self-esteem one bit, especially when there's no medication/treatment for it.
Nick's problems may have irritated Pete and Luke, but ideally they could have handed Nick's situation better by being a bit more supportive and tactful instead of being quick to point out his flaws or making comparison to a child who appeared more capable than him in his worse moments.
That is exactly how I think about this aswell.
Excellent post
Luke was all over the shop. He'd come off as a nice caring guy, then would become self obsessed. Luke caring more about sex then the survival of the group and a woman about to have a baby is messed up.
Your hand is there for a reason. I actually wonder how many of the fangirls who thought Lukey boy was cute and a babe felt when was exposed as a sleazy, self absorbed, dirty bag who cared more about a hook up, then other people.
I bet they all probably forgave thinking it wasn't his fault.
I'll make it blunt.
He was thinking about the group or the baby when he had his dick inside of Jane now did he?
Still, IRL, you don't be a bully to people if they have problems. You HELP them. And I'm not just talking about Nick.
Maybe it had to do with the qualities of nicks personality, they may have been great friends in pre ZA times with qualities luke liked but now shits got real and those quirks are a hindrance in the new world they live in.
^ This
I get his point, just because someone is insecure doesn't automatically mean people have to help or like them. Nor does it mean you are incapable of being annoying.
The Luke and Nick relationships seems to be one of best friends (care about each other while also being direct) until Nick can determinately die and then pretty much everything to do with him was dropped
I think him being a bit annoyed with Nick during the course of the game is fair enough given all the stuff he does. Im not sure the intensive week we knew them can be a good enough tell of any of the cabin group.
There is a difference between Luke being abit annoyed with Nick.
Or him acting in a way towards Nick, that Nick is some sort of helpless child that cant do anything right.
I really think if this is the case, it would make Luke seem like a heartless person.
Because, you dont just change your additude towards a friend you have for a long time.
Just because the apacoalypse started, you try to support that person imo even if they make some bad descisions sometimes.