We're not discussing how smart heading to Wellington was, though. My problem with your first post was this:
He was not putting AJ firs… moret when he claimed to care so much about him
And my response to that was that no matter how stupid his ideas may have been, he was only doing it because he thought it would be best for AJ. So, again, do not get intelligence and intention mixed up. Isn't that his character in a nutshell? He means well, but goes the wrong way about it.
I have empathy for Kenny and there is a lot of people to blame for what what has become of Kenny...even Kenny himself. He's a reliable man with good intentions, but consequences of his choices broke him. Many of the people would make similar choices as him, but if you don't deal with your problems properly...they will come back sooner or later...and then again and again until you pay the price.
I hated Kenny when he denied the fact that his son was bitten and I hated how Kenny dealt with his issues. Being overly violent towards Arvo was a last nail in the coffin. However I still loved him for being so loyal and getting his shit together when he could.
As Lee said in his dream to Clem before it all happened...sometimes there's no right answer and you will have to hurt somebody that you love because you won't have other choice. Both of them were not perfect choices and both have issues, but the next time shit hits the fan I wouldn't want Kenny's issues being expressed on Clementine at that point.
With that said... I don't hate Kenny, but my skepticism of staying with him remains and I can't find a good enough reason to think otherwise.
Everything you just said-that's really how a lot of people feel about him. In my honest opinion, Kenny is a good man, but he is not mentally equipped to live in such messed up conditions. We can also mention what terrible luck he's had. As for me, I gave him one last chance to redeem himself until his inevitable death comes-which will likely happen five minutes into S3.
I have empathy for Kenny and there is a lot of people to blame for what what has become of Kenny...even Kenny himself. He's a reliable man w… moreith good intentions, but consequences of his choices broke him. Many of the people would make similar choices as him, but if you don't deal with your problems properly...they will come back sooner or later...and then again and again until you pay the price.
I hated Kenny when he denied the fact that his son was bitten and I hated how Kenny dealt with his issues. Being overly violent towards Arvo was a last nail in the coffin. However I still loved him for being so loyal and getting his shit together when he could.
As Lee said in his dream to Clem before it all happened...sometimes there's no right answer and you will have to hurt somebody that you love because you won't have other choice. Both of them were not perfect choices and both have issues, but the next time shit hits the fan I wouldn't want … [view original content]
I know but I thought we were playing the blame game.
You bring up a very good point about Kenny. And that's why I really liked Walter and Sarita and pretty much their whole set-up. If Clem never found Kenny, sarita and him would still be celebrating Christmas right now, in July
I know but I thought we were playing the blame game.
You bring up a very good point about Kenny. And that's why I really liked Walter and… more Sarita and pretty much their whole set-up. If Clem never found Kenny, sarita and him would still be celebrating Christmas right now, in July
At the time, Clementine was pressured into staying(temporarily as well) as she was pulled into the conflict the moment she met Carver, it's understandable that Clementine decided to stay with the group offering her resources and protection after unintentionally getting her involved in the midst of their conflict. Clementine chose not to risk being by herself with no aid whilst there was a chance that someone may be looking after her. It's still the Cabin Group who are the cause of the problem, it's likely that even if Clementine left that they would've made their way to the Ski Lodge and similar events would occur except without Clementine being present - although this is just my own assumption.
You can't just put Clementine at blame for the Cabin Group going to the Ski Lodge, they were headed to the direction as soon as they heard about Carver's 'visit'. If the Cabin Group ran into them, you can't say they'd have definitely left just because of Kenny, remember that Walter practically owned the Ski Lodge and they were at the beginning of their argument, although just like you are doing I'm just making an assumption. If you are blaming Clementine for what occurred you can't do so without also blaming Kenny, as Kenny chose to let the Cabin Group in just because Clementine was with them. Just as Clementine had the choice to leave, Kenny had the choice to turn her and the group away.
I have to respectfully disagree. Sure, the cabin group might have been the root of the problem, but after getting helped she made a decision… more to stay with the group. Now, I'm no genius, but once that happens their problems kind of becomes hers too.
I already pointed out above that in Kenny's situation there is only Clementine to blame. The cabin group wouldn't even know Kenny otherwise-and had they still ran into him, he would have just forced them to leave. Kenny allowed Clementine and her friends to stay and that's when the lodge became a target.
I believe she told Clem something along the lines of "I thought if I was the one who found them, I could control it (Carver)" I honestly don't understand why people hold the lodge incident against her. Carver was already tailing them. He would have ended up at the lodge eventually with or without her help.
Honestly, how does Walter giving supplies to Bonnie affect the outcome of the assault at the lodge? It is not like she only made it to her c… morerew just because she had some cans of peaches and beans to carry around. It is likely that Bonnie would've had more motivation to drive an attack to this group of pragmatic, selfish survivors.
I agree. While I can totally see why people would think she's responsible for the assault—she did lead the others—that doesn't mean that she was wrong or immoral for doing so. Not necessarily at least. I mean, those do not connect to each other by default.
I believe she told Clem something along the lines of "I thought if I was the one who found them, I could control it (Carver)" I honestly don… more't understand why people hold the lodge incident against her. Carver was already tailing them. He would have ended up at the lodge eventually with or without her help.
I noticed it too. I personally asked him privately, but I guess he can't reply since he is banned. But this isn't the place to discuss user bans, or the discussion will derail to nowhere.
Wanted to write this on a separate comment so that the one above isn't taken down. Also, why don't you edit your comment so that none of the two comments are hid, @zombiebonnie?
I believe she told Clem something along the lines of "I thought if I was the one who found them, I could control it (Carver)" I honestly don… more't understand why people hold the lodge incident against her. Carver was already tailing them. He would have ended up at the lodge eventually with or without her help.
I noticed it too. I personally asked him privately, but I guess he can't reply since he is banned. But this isn't the place to discuss user … morebans, or the discussion will derail to nowhere.
Wanted to write this on a separate comment so that the one above isn't taken down. Also, why don't you edit your comment so that none of the two comments are hid, @zombiebonnie?
Unless you are on your phone, you should see an "edit" button on the top right corner of your comment. You can use that to edit what you have already said—although it doesn't make you go back in time. Since we are talking about a banned member, a moderator will delete your comment that says "I honestly don't understand why people hold the lodge incident against her." This won't happen if you erase the part in which you talk about @SaltLick305.
But it is still the fault of those individuals, people shouldn't have to fear making threads about their opinions on Kenny or Jane just because some people want to incite an argument between the two(unless of course the creator of a thread wants to start an argument). I understand what you mean but I just personally dislike how people have to warn the OP of any Jane or Kenny thread about potential arguments they didn't incite.
Could've swore I commented on this earlier, but couldn't find anything.
Anyway, I wouldn't say Clementine brought about Kenny's downfall. Clementine showing up just revealed something in Kenny that was already there.
Kenny was very emotionally unstable after the death of his family, as anyone would be. It takes a LONG time to heal from something like that, more than just a mere two years. As a matter of fact - some people are never the same - after they go through something like that.
Since we're discussing videogame characters, look how long Joel, from TLOU, was affected by the death of his daughter. Twenty years passed, and Joel was still grieving. The only thing that actually happened - until Elle came into his life - that Joel had merely buried his pain with anger.
Kenny essentially did the same thing, accept he was a lot more mentally unstable, as opposed to Joel for example.
Season 1: Lee meets Clementine, Lee dies saving Clementine
Season 2: Clem meets Cabin Group, Cabin Group all dies, unless you count AJ.
… more
Season 3: Clem joins new group, new group will die.
Everyone close to her dies... what does that do to a child's mind?
But it is still the fault of those individuals, people shouldn't have to fear making threads about their opinions on Kenny or Jane just beca… moreuse some people want to incite an argument between the two(unless of course the creator of a thread wants to start an argument). I understand what you mean but I just personally dislike how people have to warn the OP of any Jane or Kenny thread about potential arguments they didn't incite.
Because if so im sorry but thats why i felt it was needed for whoever to be reminded of it because whenever those characters are mentioned, most of the time an argument does occur
But it is still the fault of those individuals, people shouldn't have to fear making threads about their opinions on Kenny or Jane just beca… moreuse some people want to incite an argument between the two(unless of course the creator of a thread wants to start an argument). I understand what you mean but I just personally dislike how people have to warn the OP of any Jane or Kenny thread about potential arguments they didn't incite.
Yeah, the situation should never have gotten to the point where people have to warn others about the conflict a discussion of two fictional characters would cause
Comments
Glad we agree. (:
Good point, and that is why I can't hate Kenny. :-) He really wanted to do the right thing, he's just too damaged and jaded to know what that is.
We are in complete agreement, sister.
I have empathy for Kenny and there is a lot of people to blame for what what has become of Kenny...even Kenny himself. He's a reliable man with good intentions, but consequences of his choices broke him. Many of the people would make similar choices as him, but if you don't deal with your problems properly...they will come back sooner or later...and then again and again until you pay the price.
I hated Kenny when he denied the fact that his son was bitten and I hated how Kenny dealt with his issues. Being overly violent towards Arvo was a last nail in the coffin. However I still loved him for being so loyal and getting his shit together when he could.
As Lee said in his dream to Clem before it all happened...sometimes there's no right answer and you will have to hurt somebody that you love because you won't have other choice. Both of them were not perfect choices and both have issues, but the next time shit hits the fan I wouldn't want Kenny's issues being expressed on Clementine at that point.
With that said... I don't hate Kenny, but my skepticism of staying with him remains and I can't find a good enough reason to think otherwise.
Everything you just said-that's really how a lot of people feel about him. In my honest opinion, Kenny is a good man, but he is not mentally equipped to live in such messed up conditions. We can also mention what terrible luck he's had. As for me, I gave him one last chance to redeem himself until his inevitable death comes-which will likely happen five minutes into S3.
I know but I thought we were playing the blame game.
You bring up a very good point about Kenny. And that's why I really liked Walter and Sarita and pretty much their whole set-up. If Clem never found Kenny, sarita and him would still be celebrating Christmas right now, in July
They most definitely made a good team. When you think about it, their personalities mashed perfectly.
I agree. I don't know if he would still be doing that great, but definitely better than now that's for sure.
At the time, Clementine was pressured into staying(temporarily as well) as she was pulled into the conflict the moment she met Carver, it's understandable that Clementine decided to stay with the group offering her resources and protection after unintentionally getting her involved in the midst of their conflict. Clementine chose not to risk being by herself with no aid whilst there was a chance that someone may be looking after her. It's still the Cabin Group who are the cause of the problem, it's likely that even if Clementine left that they would've made their way to the Ski Lodge and similar events would occur except without Clementine being present - although this is just my own assumption.
You can't just put Clementine at blame for the Cabin Group going to the Ski Lodge, they were headed to the direction as soon as they heard about Carver's 'visit'. If the Cabin Group ran into them, you can't say they'd have definitely left just because of Kenny, remember that Walter practically owned the Ski Lodge and they were at the beginning of their argument, although just like you are doing I'm just making an assumption. If you are blaming Clementine for what occurred you can't do so without also blaming Kenny, as Kenny chose to let the Cabin Group in just because Clementine was with them. Just as Clementine had the choice to leave, Kenny had the choice to turn her and the group away.
That's only due to certain individuals not the OP or the topic of the thread.
A very interesting thread. I'll say that I agree with you.
You know, it seems like Clementine is cursed - whatever group she joins, it always gets destroyed. Poor Clem.
I believe she told Clem something along the lines of "I thought if I was the one who found them, I could control it (Carver)" I honestly don't understand why people hold the lodge incident against her. Carver was already tailing them. He would have ended up at the lodge eventually with or without her help.
I agree. While I can totally see why people would think she's responsible for the assault—she did lead the others—that doesn't mean that she was wrong or immoral for doing so. Not necessarily at least. I mean, those do not connect to each other by default.
I noticed it too. I personally asked him privately, but I guess he can't reply since he is banned. But this isn't the place to discuss user bans, or the discussion will derail to nowhere.
Wanted to write this on a separate comment so that the one above isn't taken down. Also, why don't you edit your comment so that none of the two comments are hid, @zombiebonnie?
What do you mean? Forgive me, I'm a new(er) member...still getting use to the formatting.
Unless you are on your phone, you should see an "edit" button on the top right corner of your comment. You can use that to edit what you have already said—although it doesn't make you go back in time. Since we are talking about a banned member, a moderator will delete your comment that says "I honestly don't understand why people hold the lodge incident against her." This won't happen if you erase the part in which you talk about @SaltLick305.
Yes but by posting this topic, it's going to bring those certain individuals here to cause the problems if you see what i mean
But it is still the fault of those individuals, people shouldn't have to fear making threads about their opinions on Kenny or Jane just because some people want to incite an argument between the two(unless of course the creator of a thread wants to start an argument). I understand what you mean but I just personally dislike how people have to warn the OP of any Jane or Kenny thread about potential arguments they didn't incite.
Could've swore I commented on this earlier, but couldn't find anything.
Anyway, I wouldn't say Clementine brought about Kenny's downfall. Clementine showing up just revealed something in Kenny that was already there.
Kenny was very emotionally unstable after the death of his family, as anyone would be. It takes a LONG time to heal from something like that, more than just a mere two years. As a matter of fact - some people are never the same - after they go through something like that.
Since we're discussing videogame characters, look how long Joel, from TLOU, was affected by the death of his daughter. Twenty years passed, and Joel was still grieving. The only thing that actually happened - until Elle came into his life - that Joel had merely buried his pain with anger.
Kenny essentially did the same thing, accept he was a lot more mentally unstable, as opposed to Joel for example.
Season 1: Lee meets Clementine, Lee dies saving Clementine
Season 2: Clem meets Cabin Group, Cabin Group all dies, unless you count AJ.
Season 3: Clem joins new group, new group will die.
Everyone close to her dies... what does that do to a child's mind?
That's why we can be glad that at least this story is fictional.
Dislike how i have to warn people is that what you are saying?
Because if so im sorry but thats why i felt it was needed for whoever to be reminded of it because whenever those characters are mentioned, most of the time an argument does occur
Yeah, the situation should never have gotten to the point where people have to warn others about the conflict a discussion of two fictional characters would cause![:\](https://community.telltale.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")