rabies is a disease not a desire. it shuts down your brain and spinal system eventually leading to cardio-respiratory arrest. Evil doesn't enter into it.
Yes, both of those things are pretty evil and bad. Once again, it depends on context and perspective. We are trusting that these are alignme… morents based on how they impact interaction. A tornado usually interacts with things by destroying them (though like I said inanimate things with no sentience can't really be labelled by the alignment system).
A rabid dog? Yes. It's evil. It's not just "a dog" like Sam in Season Two, one that can be nurtured or possibly protect Clementine. You're describing a rabid dog, an animal that only wants to eat something, to attack them, so yeah it's evil.
What ten-years-old? Clem? He didn't beat her with a walkie-takie, but with his gun (and the one that hit her when she was trying to help Kenny was Troy, and again, he used a gun, not a walkie). Besides, she's 11, as far as I know.
rabies is a disease not a desire. it shuts down your brain and spinal system eventually leading to cardio-respiratory arrest. Evil doesn't enter into it.
We're not talking about rabies, we're talking about a rabid dog. The disease itself isn't what's being judged here, what you asked to be judged was a "rabid dog", something impacted by the disease, not the disease itself. A rabid dog has the "desire" to bite the ever loving soul out of you and probably kill you, yeah...pretty evil.
rabies is a disease not a desire. it shuts down your brain and spinal system eventually leading to cardio-respiratory arrest. Evil doesn't enter into it.
Id you look purely at ben in his actions in game (not what others like clementine say about him) he never really helps the others out and when things happen its all about how he caused them. Duck and Kat oh I feel guilty etc, stealing for the bandits . However I do agree chaotic good fits him better.
Cant do Lee as he can be changed by the player
Why not?
No, but seriously, I actually had a brief exchange about this concerning… more the 400 Days characters. From my understanding, the Walking Dead isn't as much about deciding who the character is but determining what they would do, think, and say in certain scenarios. Whether we play him as a Good Guy, someone who has strayed from his morals, or an outright hilarious Scumbag, Lee Everett was a character of his own that had a life before we took control of him. And while some of his words and actions may contradict this at times, he still goes through the game as someone who does care about people, knows how to get things done, will help them with their problems, and takes care of Clementine. So, Neutral Good with a hint at Lawful Good would seem to be the canonical portrayal.
Id give Katjaa neutral good, I've always seen Kat as very specific to her family. She steals from the c… [view original content]
Id give her neutral good, shes all about herself and omid really but she does still help the others
I guess. I was keeping in mind t… morehe fact that she breaks down crying when watching Dr. Logan's tapes involving Anna Corea, rationalizes Vernon as someone who does what's best for his group when he steals the boat, and later gut-shot Michelle in spite of the latter dropping the gun, surrendering, and attempting to apologize for accidentally killing Omid. So, I'd say someone who follows the rules and is willing to forgive and forget unless it applies to her; kind of a parallel to Kenny, actually.
Neutral good, he never does anything to harm others and seems to be about right and wrong. Hes not chaotic in any way to me
True. I was kinda refering to his sense of humor, but you're right that he doesn't let it cause him to act in a chaotic fashion.
Chaotic good/neutral, the fact she helps lee and the others makes her good b… [view original content]
thats like saying " We're not talking about electricity we're talking about an electric car". you can't have one without the other. if its all based on motivation; you can't be evil without knowing right or wrong, and sorry a rabid dog cannot.
We're not talking about rabies, we're talking about a rabid dog. The disease itself isn't what's being judged here, what you asked to be jud… moreged was a "rabid dog", something impacted by the disease, not the disease itself. A rabid dog has the "desire" to bite the ever loving soul out of you and probably kill you, yeah...pretty evil.
What you said made literally no sense. Like I've said, multiple times, inanimate objects with no sentience can't be applied to the alignments.
A rabid dog is opposed to a normal dog (using Sam from Season Two as an example), a rabid dog wants to attack you and viciously hurt you, whether due to rabies or not, the actions it's performing are still considered "evil", because it is doing a bad thing.
thats like saying " We're not talking about electricity we're talking about an electric car". you can't have one without the other. if its all based on motivation; you can't be evil without knowing right or wrong, and sorry a rabid dog cannot.
I honestly can't manage to consider him evil for something that was not clear in the game.
Randall, to me, is by far the most evil character yet seen in the games (with exception of maybe paedophile Danny St John), so I'm interested to know, what do you believe could indicate that he's anything but?
but it could also have been a means to intimidate Michonne.
That could be possible, but the way he describes the act in the detail that he does, would indicate that he has with
pleasure, murdered children and the cruel way he taunts James about his father's death, would also show that Randall really doesn't care to much about children and that he actually enjoys hurting them, be it physically or verbally.
He has no real reason to lie either, as he's been shown to be fairly blunt and honest with regards to his crimes. This quote, though, is one I think you should re-look at because it speaks volumes about him as a character.
"Kids, ya know, their skulls don't break so much as...kinda melt".
The simple truth is, the guy just really likes hurting people, particularly the innocent and shows serious signs of being a pure cold hearted, psychopath with no forms of empathy, compassion and several other basic human emotions.
Might be a second degree psychopath, meaning that he does not consider the damage made toward others when he decides whether to fulfill what he wants and his psychopathy has risen due to the environment of the apocalypse.
Well, from what I've seen, I'd say he definitely considers the damage that he's made towards others because really, that's all he wants to do, that's how he fulfils his life, by bringing pain and death to whoever he sees fit. It's his main goal in life and he uses his position in Monroe to do it.
I'd also say that even before the events of the apocalypse that Randall was still a psychopath, as it has been hinted that he was possibly physically abused by his father as a child, which is one of the many leading factures to a psychopath being developed.
I addressed the first point as a reply to @DabigRG.
I honestly can't manage to consider him evil for something that was not clear in the … moregame. It was hinted that he had killed children, but it could also have been a means to intimidate Michonne. However, if a Telltale Staff—such as @emilybuckshot—wrote here and confirmed that he had indeed killed children to find satisfaction, I would coincide the second after that he should be categorized as evil. Our discrepancy appears to be more about what actually happened rather than whether the act should be frowned upon.
The fella's a psychopath, there's no arguing it.
I agree. Might be a second degree psychopath, meaning that he does not consider the damage made toward others when he decides whether to fulfill what he wants and his psychopathy has risen due to the environment of the apocalypse.
He has no real reason to lie either, as he's been shown to be fairly blunt and honest with regards to his crimes. This quote, though, is one I think you should re-look at because it speaks volumes about him as a character.
"Kids, ya know, their skulls don't break so much as...kinda melt".
Ya know, now that I'm looking at that line, I'm not sure if its graphically horrifying or hilariously hyperbolic.
I honestly can't manage to consider him evil for something that was not clear in the game.
Randall, to me, is by far the most evil c… moreharacter yet seen in the games (with exception of maybe paedophile Danny St John), so I'm interested to know, what do you believe could indicate that he's anything but?
but it could also have been a means to intimidate Michonne.
That could be possible, but the way he describes the act in the detail that he does, would indicate that he has with
pleasure, murdered children and the cruel way he taunts James about his father's death, would also show that Randall really doesn't care to much about children and that he actually enjoys hurting them, be it physically or verbally.
He has no real reason to lie either, as he's been shown to be fairly blunt and honest with regards to his crimes. This quote, though, is one I think you should re-look at because it speaks volumes about him as a charact… [view original content]
so you are saying the normal dog that bites you in season two is evil? because it bites you. its doing a bad thing. even after you try to feed it so if anything is evil its that dog. not the dog who has little or no control over its actions or body.
What you said made literally no sense. Like I've said, multiple times, inanimate objects with no sentience can't be applied to the alignment… mores.
A rabid dog is opposed to a normal dog (using Sam from Season Two as an example), a rabid dog wants to attack you and viciously hurt you, whether due to rabies or not, the actions it's performing are still considered "evil", because it is doing a bad thing.
Id you look purely at ben in his actions in game (not what others like clementine say about him) he never really helps the others out and wh… moreen things happen its all about how he caused them. Duck and Kat oh I feel guilty etc, stealing for the bandits . However I do agree chaotic good fits him better.
Yeah I dont get how they are giving animals or acts of nature morality..... There all neutral, they care about either nothing at all or satisfying there own needs, they dont act by some code or by chaos, they dont have good or bad intentions they just are
so you are saying the normal dog that bites you in season two is evil? because it bites you. its doing a bad thing. even after you try to feed it so if anything is evil its that dog. not the dog who has little or no control over its actions or body.
I think Wikipedia better explains the alignments, so I have substituted their elaborations and added my opinions.
Lawful Good. A lawful good character typically acts with compassion and always with honor and a sense of duty. Lee (determinately), Clementine (determinately), Doug, Katjaa, Christa, Luke, Sarita, Walter
Chaotic Good. A chaotic good character does what is necessary to bring about change for the better, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. Chaotic good characters usually intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of sync with the rest of society. Kenny, Nick, Bonnie
Lawful Neutral. A lawful neutral character typically believes strongly in lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules, and tradition, and often follows a personal code. Examples of lawful neutral characters include a soldier who always follows orders, a judge or enforcer that adheres mercilessly to the word of the law, and a disciplined monk. Larry, Lilly, Molly, Roman, Tavia, Carlos, Rebecca
Neutral Good. A neutral good character typically acts altruistically, without regard for or against lawful precepts such as rules or tradition. A neutral good character has no problems with cooperating with lawful officials, but does not feel beholden to them. In the event that doing the right thing requires the bending or breaking of rules, they do not suffer the same inner conflict that a lawful good character would. Carley, Chuck, Shel (determinately), Russel, Omid, Alvin, Sarah
True Neutral. A neutral character (a.k.a. true neutral) is neutral on both axes and tends not to feel strongly towards any alignment, or actively seeks their balance. Most animals, lacking the capacity for moral judgment, are of this alignment, since they are guided by instinct rather than conscious decision. Mark, Ben, Mike, AJ, walkers
Chaotic Neutral. A chaotic neutral character is an individualist who follows their own heart and generally shirks rules and traditions. Although chaotic neutral characters promote the ideals of freedom, it is their own freedom that comes first; good and evil come second to their need to be free. Becca, Jane
Lawful Evil. A lawful evil character sees a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit and shows a combination of desirable and undesirable traits. Examples of this alignment include tyrants, devils, and undiscriminating mercenary types who have a strict code of conduct. Crawford Oberson, William Carver
Neutral Evil. A neutral evil character is typically selfish and has no qualms about turning on its allies-of-the-moment, and usually makes allies primarily to further their own goals. A neutral evil character has no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit for themselves. Another valid interpretation of neutral evil holds up evil as an ideal, doing evil for evil's sake and trying to spread its influence. Examples of the first type are an assassin who has little regard for formal laws but does not needlessly kill, a henchman who plots behind their superior's back, or a mercenary who switches sides if made a better offer. An example of the second type would be a masked killer who strikes only for the sake of causing fear and distrust in the community. The St. John family, Nate
Chaotic Evil. A chaotic evil character tends to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have much regard for the lives or freedom of other people. Chaotic evil characters do not work well in groups because they resent being given orders and do not usually behave themselves unless there is no alternative. The Stranger
I think Wikipedia better explains the alignments, so I have substituted their elaborations and added my opinions.
Lawful Good. A lawful g… moreood character typically acts with compassion and always with honor and a sense of duty. Lee (determinately), Clementine (determinately), Doug, Katjaa, Christa, Luke, Sarita, Walter
Chaotic Good. A chaotic good character does what is necessary to bring about change for the better, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. Chaotic good characters usually intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of sync with the rest of society. Kenny, Nick, Bonnie
Lawful Neutral. A lawful neutral character typically believes strongly in lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules, and tradition, and often follows a personal code. Examples of law… [view original content]
Thats why some consider them Chaotic Evil: they're acting entirely on their instinct to kill, feed, and infect. This means they can't be reasoned with and their only purpose is to destroy, which is consider evil.
I dont think walkers can be anything as they are not conscious of what they are doing. If your going to give them anything it would be neutral like all animals are.
I see Kenny as more a chaotic neutral...his only drive in season one was his family to the detriment of others...not beyond thoughtless vengeance and torture of unarmed prisoners.
I think Wikipedia better explains the alignments, so I have substituted their elaborations and added my opinions.
Lawful Good. A lawful g… moreood character typically acts with compassion and always with honor and a sense of duty. Lee (determinately), Clementine (determinately), Doug, Katjaa, Christa, Luke, Sarita, Walter
Chaotic Good. A chaotic good character does what is necessary to bring about change for the better, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. Chaotic good characters usually intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of sync with the rest of society. Kenny, Nick, Bonnie
Lawful Neutral. A lawful neutral character typically believes strongly in lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules, and tradition, and often follows a personal code. Examples of law… [view original content]
I see Kenny as more a chaotic neutral...his only drive in season one was his family to the detriment of others...not beyond thoughtless vengeance and torture of unarmed prisoners.
Oh you know...the usual was a happy family man..wife dies 8 months before the apocalypse....becomes like Carver but on steroids....builds a town called Woodbury, uses apocalypse as excuse to do horrible things.
did I mention that his daughter Penny is a walker? Seriously messed up....so Kenny is not that bad now that I think back on him...yeah the Governor was a jerk.
Oh you know...the usual was a happy family man..wife dies 8 months before the apocalypse....becomes like Carver but on steroids....builds a town called Woodbury, uses apocalypse as excuse to do horrible things.
did I mention that his daughter Penny is a walker? Seriously messed up....so Kenny is not that bad now that I think back on him...yeah the Governor was a jerk.
Oh you know...the usual was a happy family man..wife dies 8 months before the apocalypse....becomes like Carver but on steroids....builds a town called Woodbury, uses apocalypse as excuse to do horrible things.
did I mention that his daughter Penny is a walker?
This wouldn't happen to be the incident where a guy rips the teeth out of a walker and frenchkisses her, would it?
did I mention that his daughter Penny is a walker?
This wouldn't happen to be the incident where a guy rips the teeth out of a walker and frenchkisses her, would it?
This wouldn't happen to be the incident where a guy rips the teeth out of a walker and frenchkisses her, would it?
In the comics yeah, the show never includes that. The comic version is a lot more twisted
This wouldn't happen to be the incident where a guy rips the teeth out of a walker and frenchkisses her, would it?
In the comics yeah, the show never includes that. The comic version is a lot more twisted
Kinda requires me to by a D&D set and make a dungeon group or whatever. No offense, but sitting around a table with a bunch of nerds makin shit up doesn't really sound very appealing, no matter how cool Ford and Discord try to make it look.
TV Tropes is the main reason I even know the Alignment System.
I think Wikipedia better explains the alignments, so I have substituted their elaborations and added my opinions.
Lawful Good. A lawful g… moreood character typically acts with compassion and always with honor and a sense of duty. Lee (determinately), Clementine (determinately), Doug, Katjaa, Christa, Luke, Sarita, Walter
Chaotic Good. A chaotic good character does what is necessary to bring about change for the better, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. Chaotic good characters usually intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of sync with the rest of society. Kenny, Nick, Bonnie
Lawful Neutral. A lawful neutral character typically believes strongly in lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules, and tradition, and often follows a personal code. Examples of law… [view original content]
Comments
rabies is a disease not a desire. it shuts down your brain and spinal system eventually leading to cardio-respiratory arrest. Evil doesn't enter into it.
oh, so shes eleven and he beat her with a gun for simply having a walkie talkie.. you're right that sounds very neutral
So we DO have zombies in the real world already?!
RUNFORYOURLIVES!!!
We're not talking about rabies, we're talking about a rabid dog. The disease itself isn't what's being judged here, what you asked to be judged was a "rabid dog", something impacted by the disease, not the disease itself. A rabid dog has the "desire" to bite the ever loving soul out of you and probably kill you, yeah...pretty evil.
Id you look purely at ben in his actions in game (not what others like clementine say about him) he never really helps the others out and when things happen its all about how he caused them. Duck and Kat oh I feel guilty etc, stealing for the bandits . However I do agree chaotic good fits him better.
With christa I was just considering season 1
thats like saying " We're not talking about electricity we're talking about an electric car". you can't have one without the other. if its all based on motivation; you can't be evil without knowing right or wrong, and sorry a rabid dog cannot.
What you said made literally no sense. Like I've said, multiple times, inanimate objects with no sentience can't be applied to the alignments.
A rabid dog is opposed to a normal dog (using Sam from Season Two as an example), a rabid dog wants to attack you and viciously hurt you, whether due to rabies or not, the actions it's performing are still considered "evil", because it is doing a bad thing.
Randall, to me, is by far the most evil character yet seen in the games (with exception of maybe paedophile Danny St John), so I'm interested to know, what do you believe could indicate that he's anything but?
That could be possible, but the way he describes the act in the detail that he does, would indicate that he has with
pleasure, murdered children and the cruel way he taunts James about his father's death, would also show that Randall really doesn't care to much about children and that he actually enjoys hurting them, be it physically or verbally.
He has no real reason to lie either, as he's been shown to be fairly blunt and honest with regards to his crimes. This quote, though, is one I think you should re-look at because it speaks volumes about him as a character.
"Kids, ya know, their skulls don't break so much as...kinda melt".
The simple truth is, the guy just really likes hurting people, particularly the innocent and shows serious signs of being a pure cold hearted, psychopath with no forms of empathy, compassion and several other basic human emotions.
Well, from what I've seen, I'd say he definitely considers the damage that he's made towards others because really, that's all he wants to do, that's how he fulfils his life, by bringing pain and death to whoever he sees fit. It's his main goal in life and he uses his position in Monroe to do it.
I'd also say that even before the events of the apocalypse that Randall was still a psychopath, as it has been hinted that he was possibly physically abused by his father as a child, which is one of the many leading factures to a psychopath being developed.
Ah, gotcha. The more I think about it, Neutral Good does sound pretty close so I guess it could just be a preference towards Lawful-esque behavior.
Ya know, now that I'm looking at that line, I'm not sure if its graphically horrifying or hilariously hyperbolic.
so you are saying the normal dog that bites you in season two is evil? because it bites you. its doing a bad thing. even after you try to feed it so if anything is evil its that dog. not the dog who has little or no control over its actions or body.
Okay, I guess.
Yeah I dont get how they are giving animals or acts of nature morality..... There all neutral, they care about either nothing at all or satisfying there own needs, they dont act by some code or by chaos, they dont have good or bad intentions they just are
Forgot a few.
Police Officer:True Neutral or Lawful Neutral
Jenny Pitcher:Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good or True Neutral
Mrs. Moore: Lawful Good?
Jake:Chaotic Evil
Bart:Chaotic Evil
Bandit 1:Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil
Bandit 2:Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil
Bandit 3 through 8:Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil
Drew:Chaotic Evil or Lawful Evil
The Stranger:Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil
Steve:Chaotic Evil
Radio Survivor: Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral
Stan:Lawful Neutral
I think Wikipedia better explains the alignments, so I have substituted their elaborations and added my opinions.
Lawful Good. A lawful good character typically acts with compassion and always with honor and a sense of duty. Lee (determinately), Clementine (determinately), Doug, Katjaa, Christa, Luke, Sarita, Walter
Chaotic Good. A chaotic good character does what is necessary to bring about change for the better, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. Chaotic good characters usually intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of sync with the rest of society. Kenny, Nick, Bonnie
Lawful Neutral. A lawful neutral character typically believes strongly in lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules, and tradition, and often follows a personal code. Examples of lawful neutral characters include a soldier who always follows orders, a judge or enforcer that adheres mercilessly to the word of the law, and a disciplined monk. Larry, Lilly, Molly, Roman, Tavia, Carlos, Rebecca
Neutral Good. A neutral good character typically acts altruistically, without regard for or against lawful precepts such as rules or tradition. A neutral good character has no problems with cooperating with lawful officials, but does not feel beholden to them. In the event that doing the right thing requires the bending or breaking of rules, they do not suffer the same inner conflict that a lawful good character would. Carley, Chuck, Shel (determinately), Russel, Omid, Alvin, Sarah
True Neutral. A neutral character (a.k.a. true neutral) is neutral on both axes and tends not to feel strongly towards any alignment, or actively seeks their balance. Most animals, lacking the capacity for moral judgment, are of this alignment, since they are guided by instinct rather than conscious decision. Mark, Ben, Mike, AJ, walkers
Chaotic Neutral. A chaotic neutral character is an individualist who follows their own heart and generally shirks rules and traditions. Although chaotic neutral characters promote the ideals of freedom, it is their own freedom that comes first; good and evil come second to their need to be free. Becca, Jane
Lawful Evil. A lawful evil character sees a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit and shows a combination of desirable and undesirable traits. Examples of this alignment include tyrants, devils, and undiscriminating mercenary types who have a strict code of conduct. Crawford Oberson, William Carver
Neutral Evil. A neutral evil character is typically selfish and has no qualms about turning on its allies-of-the-moment, and usually makes allies primarily to further their own goals. A neutral evil character has no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit for themselves. Another valid interpretation of neutral evil holds up evil as an ideal, doing evil for evil's sake and trying to spread its influence. Examples of the first type are an assassin who has little regard for formal laws but does not needlessly kill, a henchman who plots behind their superior's back, or a mercenary who switches sides if made a better offer. An example of the second type would be a masked killer who strikes only for the sake of causing fear and distrust in the community. The St. John family, Nate
Chaotic Evil. A chaotic evil character tends to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have much regard for the lives or freedom of other people. Chaotic evil characters do not work well in groups because they resent being given orders and do not usually behave themselves unless there is no alternative. The Stranger
Care to explain Carley, Molly, and Mark?
Thats why some consider them Chaotic Evil: they're acting entirely on their instinct to kill, feed, and infect. This means they can't be reasoned with and their only purpose is to destroy, which is consider evil.
I see Kenny as more a chaotic neutral...his only drive in season one was his family to the detriment of others...not beyond thoughtless vengeance and torture of unarmed prisoners.
True, though those last few traits weren't really prominent until Season 2.
hmmm...yes a fall from grace...It does chart a path that leads to becoming someone like the Governor.
hmmm...yes....what does that mean exactly? I don't watch the TV Show.
Oh you know...the usual was a happy family man..wife dies 8 months before the apocalypse....becomes like Carver but on steroids....builds a town called Woodbury, uses apocalypse as excuse to do horrible things.
did I mention that his daughter Penny is a walker? Seriously messed up....so Kenny is not that bad now that I think back on him...yeah the Governor was a jerk.
This wouldn't happen to be the incident where a guy rips the teeth out of a walker and frenchkisses her, would it?
Okay. That actually sounds like a serious villain
And nevermind.
What? No....at least ...never saw that. Hah that's nasty.
He is actually a good villain...any man with zombie heads in fish tank can't be all bad.
In the comics yeah, the show never includes that. The comic version is a lot more twisted
Omg....that's insane...gotta read the comics one of these days.
Thank you, TV Tropes!
Mmm! Sounds disgusting!
So, does anyone else not actually play D&D or am I the only one?
Give in and play.
Kinda requires me to by a D&D set and make a dungeon group or whatever. No offense, but sitting around a table with a bunch of nerds makin shit up doesn't really sound very appealing, no matter how cool Ford and Discord try to make it look.
TV Tropes is the main reason I even know the Alignment System.
Why not Chaotic Good?
Wait, what?!
How about a topic on the MTG Color Wheel?
Care to explain the St Johns (individually) and the Stranger?
What is that? I'm intrigued.