SPOILER POST - Kenny still isn't sitting right with me in Season Two.
Howdo all.
I got my Xbox One earlier this year, and have been playing through both Seasons and 400 Days ready for Season 3, as I traded my 360 and lost the 360 TWD Save, and i'm playing Episode 3, and second time around, i'm starting to dislike Kenny a little more now.
I understand that he's been through a lot since everything went to sh*t with Duck and Katjaa, and he's been struggling since, despite meeting Sarita, but I have seemed to notice more second time around, and I just hate that despite being protective of Clem, I just think the man is a liability with a short fuse that could blow in Season 3 should I decide to save him this time around.
Nick has that temper too, and obviously a situation like the one they're in would test anyone's patience, but Kenny just seems to be "My way or the highway" and he's really been hard on Clem. Like the decision where you go to Carver's lockup and he tells Clem she doesn't have a choice in the morning and that they're breaking out.
I get he's one tough SOB, but he's not willing to listen to anyone, and when he does, he goes off on one, and just when i'm trying to like him again, it's back to square one.
I will take a lot into consideration again when I get to THE Jane vs Kenny fight in Episode 5, but as mentioned, second time around, while I do love the guy, and go back to the journey they had in Season One, and will think about how he did care for her, despite Lee being her Father figure, but I worry that eventually something has to give with him, and it will be the straw that breaks the Camel's back, or in other words, kills Clementine. And for that, I may shoot him again so he can be reunited with Duck and Katjaa.
Bloody hell, it's so well written that I have often had to pause the game, take a moment, and consider my choices and options.
To the people that didn't shoot him, and sent him to Wellington...would you be happy to see him in Season 3?
Comments
Not really looking forward to Season 3 right now. Hope he gets killed/bus'd relatively early compared to Jane, though.
I was always willing to escape Carver's camp the second I got there. So I was with Kenny's plan to leave, especially after Reggie dying over blue berries and Kenny's beat down. However i can see why if someone wanted to stay, it would be rather frustrating to voice that option.
Kenny usually has a good reason why he does the things that he does. Just stubborn to see any other option. A lot of his decisions seem to stem from keeping the ones he cares about and himself safe from any more harm (also as a polar opposite choice to add variety to the game). I also think people out there have the same line of thinking as Kenny. So not every choice of his is something you want to do, but it is somebodies. His freak outs and attacking people is to test your patience with the guy and the game really pushes your limits (which is awesome btw).
I would love to see our dear old Kenny in S3, I have a save reserved leaving with Kenny to see how that plays out. I doubt TT would be so cruel to have Kenny turn on Clementine at any point, but who knows.
I love him. I hope our choices really matter for Season 3 because I wanna stick with him as much as I'm allowed to.
That wouldn't be fair, you know.
Speaking as someone who hates Jane for being an awful human being, I think Kenny's had way more than his fair share in the spotlight and really needs to go away fairly soon. Jane at least could benefit from the extra screentime to possibly redeem herself (very unlikely) and develop as a character with AJ and Clementine's influence; Kenny has arguably had the same basic character arc twice and is just at a point where there isn't much development to be had without radically altering his character. Even the alternate endings are a reflection of this: Jane travels back to Howe's Hardware (can someone please come clean up Carver off the floor?) and essentially becomes Clementine's steward by either allowing the mixed family to come join them or watching as Clementine threatens them into leaving; Kenny gets a bittersweet ending where he either has a teary goodbye with Clementine where he gives AJ his hat or has a heartwarming family moment where Edith gives them a triple order of supplies with the promise of letting them in when space becomes available some time later.
So yeah, Jane can stay [strike]dead[/strike], Kenny should go!
Definitely will be happy to see him in season 3. I've said this before but the game was much better with Kenny in it than it would have been without. Having the boring, unspectacular cabin group at the forefront would have probably put me to sleep. (especially considering how boring the were before Kenny showed up.) They should have been replaced by 400 days characters. Also, morality comes down pretty low in my list of whats important to me. I just wanna see a good story unfold. Maybe that explains why I was a big fan of Jane as well.
Dude, you pressin some not-quite-actually-nowhere-near-berserk buttons there; careful now.
Hah yeah. Back to Kenny anyways, if he I feel that he is suffering from burnout in season 3 (which it can be argued that he has. And Clementine for that matter, but this is a discussion for another time) then it would be maybe time to write him out for good. That's obviously if he's in it at all.
But this isn't about screentime, it's about our choices. If people decided to stick with Kenny, then that means they wanna stay with him for good (Choosing Kenny over safety means you really love the guy, at least in my eyes). It wouldn't be fair to kill one of them earlier than the other one, I think they should do the same they did with Carley/Doug and just have them go at the same point, more or less.
True. Just thinking more in broad strokes.
Besides, I didn't say he had to die, just that he needs to be downplayed as much as possible for the sake of the story. Maybe live up to my initial expections/impressions of Season 2....
Agreed.
Yeah, I figured since he's determinant he'd take more of a secondary/supporting/advicer role. Kinda like TV show's Hershel, although Kenny isn't the kind of person who just stays in one place advicing and not taking action. I figured he'd stay in Wellington while Clem's away with Javi (That is if Kenny gains enough trust in Javi to allow him near Clem alone). Either that, or he gets Omid'd (Which would be awful in my opinion).
But he's the same in season one? It's not some new character trait. He's always had a short fuse and been bullish with making decisions but he'll also never desert you like Jane did to not only you but her sister too. She's a total flake and could leave you in the shit at any moment. Kenny won't.
Agreed. Then again, this is someone who actually liked that scene and loved Michelle, so what do I know? For all we know, that could happen and the killer will go down in history as the Man who Killed Kenny.
Plot twist: Javi is the one who kills Kenny, either by accident or intentional. XD
I guess it'll be the guys who Clem and Javi are seen looking for in the teaser. They probably killed Kenny/Jane and took AJ with them along with Javi's family.
I think the character is okay in season 2 apart from his endings where they go full left field. A flawed possible guardian just like jane sure but I dont like how they potray him in the wellington endings, its like kenny suddenly becomes another character
Some great points, and cheers for the replies
I do like Kenny, but I just thought there was something more off about him in Season 2 & it didn't sit right with me.
He's a loyal SOB, there's no doubting that, but I shot him in my first play through, as I felt he just felt burnt out, and at that point where he was a liability, even if he care for Clementine.
He's a good man, albeit a Broken one.
I stuck with Jane, as I felt she will probably redeem herself in Season 3, and I may make the same choice at the end of Episode 5 of the Xbox One version.
I try & do the morally right choices through Clementine, like taking the Family in at the end.
Bloody Hell it's tough. I genuinely have to weigh up pros and cons of virtual characters, but that's the strength of the writing eh?
Season 2 had Kenny get into arguments with everyone all the time. Not just standard disagreements either but often long running feuds and hatred. I know the writers wanted to show that Kenny was losing it but it was a little silly how they'd have everyone against Kenny. As a big fan of Kenny and morality being a pretty low priority on my list, I didn't have much problem with this and found it pretty comical at times.
What was needed was another character on Kenny's side to balance things out. Someone other than Clementine. Season 1 was much more balanced when it came to Kenny. It didn't ever feel like it was him vs everyone despite him having disagreements with other characters.
Probably.
You're absolutely right.
A huge but middlegrounded problem with Season 2 is that it felt like Kenny and Jane(and to a far lesser extent, Luke and Carver) had this weird tendency to have others/each other doubt them for the sake of making their arguments seem right. It felt a little biased at times, really.
While I experienced Season 2 when the disc collection came out and thus missed out on a lot of the hype, speculation, and buildup most of you guys had, I actually just thought about what that whole "Luke vs. Kenny" thing I saw so many wax about would've been like last night.
I imagined a Captain America Civil War scenario with at least Jane being on Kenny's side. Anyone else have suggestions/opinion on this?
Off the top
DabigRG that would be unfair to Kenny fans, the same if they showed Kenny more. It wouldn't be fair to Jane fans.
Personally i don't think either of them will even appear because i am over 70% certain Telltale will take the lazy option and just mention their fates through dialogue depending on Clem's Season 2 ending choice. Really sad if that happens to be honest because i look back at the Carley/Doug choice and i don't see why they can't have either Jane/Kenny still around for Season 3. The thing is though, the Alone choice is the reason i am nearly convinced that Kenny/Jane won't appear. They wouldn't have this choice otherwise so it says to me that the game will not include them
Kenny comes across as an asshole many times in season one and two but he's an "honest asshole" is how i'd like to refer to him as lol. He speaks his mind, tells you what he thinks of you or your ideas or other people's ideas. It's very direct. He's not everyone's cup of tea because of he the decisions he sometimes makes which people don't always agree with, but some of us do agree and more importantly trust him. It's questionable to how he is by the end of Season 2, but i'm a loyal person and if i was surviving with Kenny and Clem, i'd stick with them all the way. Plus the fact that he's been around since the beginning is another reason "some of us" have an attachment to long term characters. I wish more Season 1 characters had survived longer.
Actually had this conversation below, muh man.
SHAMELESS REPOST:
Speaking as someone who hates Jane for being an awful human being, I think Kenny's had way more than his fair share in the spotlight and really needs to go away fairly soon. Jane at least could benefit from the extra screentime to possibly redeem herself (very unlikely) and develop as a character with AJ and Clementine's influence; Kenny has arguably had the same basic character arc twice and is just at a point where there isn't much development to be had without radically altering his character. Even the alternate endings are a reflection of this: Jane travels back to Howe's Hardware (can someone please come clean up Carver off the floor?) and essentially becomes Clementine's steward by either allowing the mixed family to come join them or watching as Clementine threatens them into leaving; Kenny gets a bittersweet ending where he either has a teary goodbye with Clementine where he gives AJ his hat or has a heartwarming family moment where Edith gives them a triple order of supplies with the promise of letting them in when space becomes available some time later.
I didn't say he had to die, just that he needs to be downplayed as much as possible for the sake of the story. Maybe live up to my initial expections/impressions of Season 2....
I agree but they sort of did this with Jane, the other characters like Bonnie also trash her a fair bit
Well that's debatable to be fair. There a lot of times in season 1 Kenny shows his kind side. I see what you are saying here but the Kenny in the Wellington endings is a sign of who he really is when he's not being an asshole. I guess another way of looking at it is that he opens up for the first time thus becoming very emotional. When have we ever seen Kenny beg for something or someone to do something for him? Never until this scene. He begged them to let Clem and AJ into Wellington for their safety.
Ahh i missed that! Fair play to you then DabigRG. I see your point. If Kenny/Jane are on Season 3, i am pretty certain they won't have much of a role anyway.
Thats kind of my point
But really its the kinda horrible message it sends, Kenny in the previous scene murders someone in a blind rage and then doesnt see what he did as wrong, its chilling.
"You didnt have to kill her Kenny!"
"Sorry darling but i did..."
Then he continues to justify what he did, this isnt like with Larry he kills Jane out of her supposed killing of AJ. Its horrifying and Kenny had gone full anti hero. He doesnt see what he has done as anyway wrong.
I like this characterization and I understand people going with Kenny, he is flawed but still loyal and a possible caregiver for clementine.The portrayal for him is strong and feels deserved.
But the way his endings make the character seem like a hero saving kids by being selfless is just bizzare and a huge contrast, there could have been a happy ending with Kenny however this shouldnt have been it, it doesnt feel like Kenny in season 1 let alone season 2. The things kenny does in season 2 mean he cant be potrayed that way, its a pretty horriblre message that violent murder kenny just committed is irrelevant. A darker ending with Kenny could have worked as well, maybe something with them finding arvo
On the other hand, Im not really a fan of the jane endings either, they are pretty bland though Jane at least feels more deserved going in that direction, she sees the error of what she does and a slight redemption by taking in the family seems possible.
Perhaps Kenny should not vanish from the story while Jane stays, but I definitely think that the latter deserves a bigger role than the former over the course of Season Three, comparing the cases where both are alive.
I believe that the cabin group was rather interesting in "All That Remains" and that, generally speaking, they only lost their personalities in the episode in which the writers put their creative minds onto Kenny and Walter's characters.
I don't think that Kenny ever regretted killing Jane. I think that while he did regret killing Larry, he would have still killed him all over again if he could go back in time lol. There are a few things that Kenny did regret and express though (like going off on Clementine when Sarita died and not saving Alvin)
Personally I loved the "sorry darling but I did" line. The way it was delivered was great. Badassery and controversy in one. I quite like how Kenny stuck to his guns and never backed down. Once he found out that Jane was playing him, I think he would have been even more sure that he made the right decision. In a way, Kenny was a hero at the end of it. He lead Clementine to Wellington like he said he would.
I agree with you that they needed someone else to be on Kenny's side. And when I think about it, the moment season 2 started going down hill for me ways the moment Sarita died. She was the only one other than Clementine that was consistently on Kenny's side (being the only one to really argue with the cabin group about leaving Kenny at Howe's). Without that balance, maintaining a relationship with Kenny was an uphill battle.
It also made disagreeing with Kenny a very lopsided experience. I agreed with Kenny on finding Wellington, which felt fine because he was grateful I agreed. But then I disagreed with Kenny on how long to wait until we headed out to town, and I disagreed with him on how to handle Arvo, and I felt like his anger and frustration was unfairly concentrated on me because I was the only one who could have possibly agreed with him out of the group and I didn't.
This is different than season 1 where the only true events Kenny will blame you for is Larry and the lady in the street, and those are only because the rest of the group is absent (in the Larry situation Lilly obviously wouldn't take his side and Clem was too small of a child). In other situations, like dropping Ben or stealing supplies, he will be upset with you but won't be overly angry, because the rest of the group is divided or neutral enough on either side to balance the decision out.
Personally i think Kenny shows remorse for what he did to Jane and all the other bad things he's done without actually saying so. I say this because of what he wants for Clem, the fact he said himself that he doesn't trust himself anymore to keep her safe and he said this to Clem in the Wellington ending:
"You'll meet people. You'll make friends. People better than me. Good people that don't have to look at you and feel ashamed at what they've put you through"
I'd argue Sarah and especially Nick. Then again, Sarah getting moments to shine before sitting back down is what makes her great.
Episode 3 definitely sucked in that department, though.
I wish more Season 2 characters had survived longer. From a writing and development standpoint, at least.
But yeah what you said.
Though he advocated to leave Lilly behind at the motel, after she had saved the group by killing the bandit leader by surprise and therefore confusing the rest of robbers. He also left a trapped Lee to fend for himself because of a determinant grudge that he held for over seven days.
Motivations, circumstances and reasoning do not come into play. You said that Kenny would never desert anyone, which has been proven twice to be false.
Jane could not physically save Jaime without the latter's cooperation, and it is clear that her sister did not want to keep going due to depression. Hence, without being able to convince Jaime, Jane could not make her leave through the skylight, so she decided to continue living instead of dying.
You bring a valid point—both of those characters are some of the most relevant ones in "A House Divided" or a subsequent episode. This went through my head and that's why I said "generally speaking."
Implying he wasn't one beforehand.
Wouldn't it be some shit if Kenny marched up to Arvo, who is in no position to defend himself...only to decide that's not his fight to fight or who he is anymore?
I really want to see him in S3. I left Wellington with him, and he is my favorite alive character atm, so yes I want him in Season 3.
The funny thing is, even though those incidents can happen. They actually didn't if you think about it in a kind of amusing/strange way.
He advocated to leave Lilly behind but he never did as she made it to the RV in time.
He determinantely left Lee under the door to fend for himself but he didn't actually abandon him as that would mean running off right? Haha if you see what I mean lol but yes what can determinantely happen here is shitty nontheless. Just something I thought of today incidentally
Daze I don't think Kenny/Jane will even appear in the game. I'm almost certain their fates will only be mentioned through dialogue. If this does happen it will be just pathetic and lazy from telltale. I just hope
I'm wrong
Well, crap, you are right, Dan.
Unless I take an ace from under my sleeve.
What about Beatrice? It might have been out of pragmatism because she was going to die anyway, and I completely understand that stand, but he did leave her behind if Lee doesn't do anything.