How specifically would you improve upon the character development in Season 2?
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I think most of us agree that Season 2 was neither as seamless nor as poignant as Season 1, and plenty of discussions exist to that effect. Rather than say the writing was bad, highlight plot holes or weak characters, what in your opinion could have been done to write better characters? Say [blank] needed to be more interesting, more sympathetic, more unsettling, and so on......how would you go about that?
Please avoid denigrating the characters. That is not what this discussion is about.
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I feel like they should have given the characters more definitive personalities. There were a few characters that you couldn't describe too well without resorting to basic descriptions such as "nice" or "asshole."
I feel if they would've just highlighted characters' pasts more, then the audience already would have been more satisfied. In episode one, it was alluded that the majority of the cabin group had dark pasts. These pasts should have been explored. Their experiences molded who they are, and without knowing anything besides what is currently established, we were in the dark.
A lot of characters seemed to serve the plot first, and be an actual character second. They experienced multiple changes in their person just to move things along more efficiently. (Carver, Rebecca, ect.)
Also, some calm moments like the campfire scene would have gone a long way, in my opinion. Who are these people when they aren't relentlessly escaping death? Some of the more laid-back and meaningless moments in Season 1 made me really love certain characters. In a more calm setting, we got to see their quirks and interests shine through. They seemed more like people we know today.
Sorry in advance if this doesn't quite answer the question. I probably should stop logging on to this site after huge study/homework sessions.
I think more optional dialogue should've been given that lets them express their viewpoint on the situation - specifically Carlos and Sarita needed more character development, I think, since they had very minimal - I mean, Pete appeared in only one and determinantly a bit episodes and had more character development than these characters who lasted for more than 2.
Not everyone dies.
Pretty much this.
Sonuvagun, this was actually something I had on my mind for a while now. I've stated a few ideas in previous threads that I've been meaning to further elaborate and follow up on, so I'll state a few off the top of my head.
Clementine: Needed more focus devoted to talking about her opinions and feelings on certain things, namely her relationships and history, as well as more emphasis on her as a character that will be developed.
Christa: Maybe have a bit more time devoted to having her be with Clementine so that we can have an idea of how she got through those 16 months before her disappearance.
Michelle: Not really important, just something I wouldn't have minded seeing expanded and/or followed up on. See dan#####'s topic for elaboration.
Luke: Some actual non-story based interaction with him so we can actually learn who he is in the first couple of episodes. Make him more of a character, less of an icon. On that note, make him less white and black as well so people can shut the fuck up.
Carlos: Some time to learning about his backstory and more screentime that shows his redeeming qualities.
Sarah: The foundation for her character was pretty dang solid, but let's just say there was step or two missing
. I posted a "being nice" example on her in dan's topic that briefly covers a bit(Still planning on doing something on her in general, but don't have much time or energy to actually get it done.) Maybe give her a more concentrated focus, go into deconstructing her place in the group compared to everyone ese a little more, [please] don't get too black and white with her, and, as I was recently reminded of, have her actually be available to talk to in between action sequences.
Rebecca: Make her change in attitude towards Clementine less sudden and more natural. Explain her relationship with Carver so that we have a better idea of what her dilemma was.
Alvin: Talk about his relationship and history with Rebecca. Also, one word: George (Future plans, maybe).
Pete: Go more into what he contributed to the team before his death and what his history with both the Cabin Group and Carver entails.
Nick: Honestly, I thought he was fine compared to most of the other characters. Definitely give him more screentime in Episode 3 so that the events of the next episode means more. Plus, follow-up on his thoughts after the events of the previous episode(Again, future plans
)
Kenny: PISS OFF--naw, I'm kidding.
Honestly, I thought he was okay, just give some more screentime and development to the other characters to compensate and I'm golden.
Sarita: More screentime spent learning her backstory and developing her as her own character. Also, follow-up on her comments about her time with Kenny(Future Plansx3)
Walter: Another character I thought was fine(not in that way).
Matthew: Go more into his relationship with Walter and friendship with Sarita and Kenny.
Carver: Actually follow-up on all of the buildup leading to the third episode. Make him less black and white in terms of morality and make us believe he was a great leader at one point. Actually go into his implied history with Luke, Carlos, and Alvin since it was clearly the source of most of their intended development.
Taavia: Give her more screentime, period. Maybe explain how much things have changed since she brought Bonnie to Howe's and give us an upfront experience of how she does her job. Personally, I'd think she'd be a middle ground between Bonnie and Troy(future plans for a square).
Troy: Meh. I thought he was fine, just have his relationships with Carver, Tavia, Bonnie, and Mike mentioned a bit.
Bonnie: I thought she was kissablefine for the most part. Maybe go into her drug problems and what happened with Leland for continuity sake. Describe how she got into Carver's good graces and why she felt dedicated enough to defend him at first.
Mike: Went into him in depth in dan's topic. Aside from that, better develop his dynamic with Kenny, Bonnie, Clementine, and Arvo so that his betrayal means more.
Jane: KILLITWITHFIYA!--no, don't. Again, went into her plenty of times in the past. Just make her less unintentionally unsympathetic and you're probably good.
Reggie: Okay, I actually do wanna talk about him at some point(FUU-TUURE! PLAAAANS!). Going by some of the comments I've seen about him, I can sum up my answer to some of that talk with having the group spend a decent amount of time with him and make him NOT seem delusional.
Arvo: Much like Sarah, what we got in terms of his development had a solid foundation but it felt like it was missing a step or two. Maybe make him actually have some legitimate hostility/villainy before the big moment would help? Also, make him availible to briefly talk to, develop his relationship with Mike Bonnie and Jane a bit, and actually learn about his life before he got unlucky. Real unlucky.
Natasha: Give her more dialogue. Bring up her relationship with Arvo.
Buricko: Meh. Maybe have Arvo bring him up?
Vitali: Meh. Maybe have Arvo bring him up?
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I do like season 2, even tho my comment might not show it. I feel like telltale did to many rewrites that lead to it's downfur.
For example in walking dad season 1 episode 2, there is more to that story like. If you cut divid's lag off, in the begganing of the episode. mark will still be alive and mr porker will instead be food.
I find in game data edverisone that if lee event was a complete asshole. that Kenny might of trand to kill clementine or he was thentening. I'm not sure. even odd clementine will said ("plese don't lit Kenny kill me")?? applying that Kenny has an bigger rule in that episode. they did a rewrite of episode 2 however it did not effect the season because it had the same theme. unlike season 2 it made no sense even if season 2 was base on trust and loyalty. also iv notest in episode 4 and 5 they change gears to June and Kenny hmm????????? why. so how is this trust and loyalty.
I only played episode 3. 3 times of the 400 hours of play time. made me question Kenny and clementine but not in a good way. I fount like it was out of character, that clementine was not upset at all when Kenny smack carver to the grand she had that look she wanted revenge. even others examples that I can't remember or don't won't too. so is it just me that thick episode 3 is a Cash grub.
not just that in episode 3, Kenny was supposed to be carver, and troy had a bigger rule like force sex June. and that is why. June shot his bottom area. and mike was also Ralph that killed or ambush Christa. and clementine was supposed to meet him in episode 3.
If telltale followed the orliqna script. like with Ralph showing up in episode 3 and Kenny being carver. or Mable the rule of troy, that will follow the rule of trust and loyalty. instead ware got bill as carver because some dumbs of telltale like his voice bitter. and reggie had no rule at all Happy Telltale. That character of Reggie; cased season 2 a rewrite that did not follow the theme unlike season 1 was about survivorisim.
DabigRG normally has some pretty good ideas when it comes to topics like these.
More indept discussion about the past and Lee between Kenny and Clementine instead of these cutesy mentions of Lee here and there that Clementine can sometimes do.
Christa - her relationship with Clementine seemed to have deteriorated, based on their interactions and the fact that Clementine didn't really seem that cut up about being seperated from her. Maybe actually show how they got to that point a little more.
Luke - needed to leave the group at the end imo. Had the idea that he could fake his death but that might be a little too extreme for a lot of players, so maybe just have him shake Kenny's hand and agree that they have come to the end of working together (sort of a non violent Kenny vs Jane) Luke leaving fits the theme of everybody being broken at the end, which I think was what the game was ultimately going for.
Sarah - Sarah was a decent character to be fair but they seemed lost on where to go with her. The lack of any reaction to her death was pathetic from the group. Have her survive a little longer and die trying to save Clementine might have worked.
Well i am not sure from that info but i heard that kirkman give telltale some help in this season and they said there is a characters from the comic i am not a comic reader but i heard that the comic characters more better than the tv show characters
Loved S2, but everything could use some improvements. Sarah could have saved herself depending on our choice to teach her how to use a gun. It would be a sign that Sarah wanted to live and she listened to our advice. Hell give her Carver's gun that Rebecca picked up. The tough part is she would have to die later for the rest of the game to work out. Maybe die in the Russian shoot out. Other than Sarah, I think the only other teammate character that didn't get really any character development was Sarita due to lack of screen time.
For starters, I would have definitely made the Cabin Group the main focus of character development, along with giving Clementine an actual story arc of her own. In return, Kenny and Jane would have less focus as a result to allow for other characters to shine.
I would give Luke more backstory and explore his 'hero complex' in more directions, going as far as to teach or force him to learn that sometimes killing is necessary to survive or to save a friend. I would like to see Sarah and Carlos develop more between each other, while seeing them argue about Sarah's sheltered situation. I want to learn more about Alvin and how he appeared to have murdered one of Carver's friend George during his escape from Howe's.
But most of all, I would not set up the entirety of Cabin Group solely for the sake of filling the 'deaths per episode' quota. If a character need to die as appropriate for the episode, then they should be determinant, AND can potentially survive the season while not being assigned to the background. If you save Sarah and Nick, they can potentially survive the season and become stronger individuals out of the experience in spite of their flaws, without being needlessly killed off for cheap drama.
Huh. You think that would've been obvious; nice work!
Spot. On.
I would have consolidated characters that serve similar purposes or had the potential to serve similar purposes. As in, cut down the cast by combining multiple characters into one, so there would have to be less time devoted to scattered and unfocused character development.
Examples:
Christa replaces Rebecca as the pregnant woman whose baby you need to care for. This bypasses the need to make Rebecca suddenly likable by putting the already existing emotional weight on Christa.
Carlos replaces Kenny as the emotionally unstable dad. This bypasses the result of retreading Kenny's season 1 arc.
Ralph replaces Mike. Ralph has more relevance in the story and could help carry the theme of trust.
Jane and Bonnie switch roles in Howe's and their introductory episodes. This way we would get an appropriate amount of time with the characters proportionate to their importance.
Or, better yet, have her use Arvo's gun for dramatic irony.
Definitely.
Wright Micah^ (read above) Super=abandon + Final Build 9.8 (not in mean comment, not. sure if it's true).
Finding post in telltale community
I'm going to replay of my own comment (not sure if it's true)
there is remise going on the internet that Kenny was supposed to be died in season 2 episode 4. but the voice of clementine named Melissa Hutchison stopt it by pleading to telltale. That to me does not make sense. Why would telltale lesson to a voice actor.
if that was true, of what I horld. I believe was an telltale community but kinda fogger memory. That will also be an anther example of trust and loyalty. and even more proof that Kenny was carver. but was it clementine that killed June.(I'm not sure)
This is gonna sound a bit hypocritical, but you do realize they were the same character, right?
?
I know Mike was planned on being Ralph at some point in production but they scrapped it. In the finished game they're not the same character.
Technically yes, but only in the sense that "Oh, this isn't Ralph the Bandit; it's my original character, Mike the Prisoner! Totally different." This was apparently changed half-way through the production process, as Dan White mentioned that his audition was trying to convince everyone not to attack him. I think I even saw a picture somewhere that showed an unused model of Mike with his hoodie up, presumably covering his ear to hide his identity from Clementine. In my contribution in dan#####'s topic, I just used Ralph as a nickname that Mike went by while with the bandits to address the difference.
Also, I'm a bit confused about the Christa and Rebecca thing.
Agreed.
400 Days Group: Some actual interaction with them would be nice.
Vince: Did he find Justin? How has he adapted to life under Carver?
Russell: Did his trust of Tavia pay off? Is his encounters with Steve and Nate still haunting him?
Wyatt: Did he find Eddie?(Gah, I hope not. xp)
Shel: Has she found a suitable place to let Becca grow up the way she wanted?
Becca: How is life under Carver compared to Roman? What is her history with Sarah? I mentioned my...bizarre execution of many fans' desire in dan's topic.
I'm sure I've probably ask this before, but what exactly were the problems with each individual member of the Cabin Group? I know a few of them, but I thought I'd ask anyway in case I overlooked something.
Here's a fun idea: List various themes, traits, and concepts you associate with each character.
Clementine: Loneliness, Family, Reluctance, Regret
Pete: Responsibility, Fatherly
Luke: Idealism, Hero,
Nick: Guilt, Depression, Reckless
Rebecca: Pregnancy, Family, Vulnerability,
Alvin: Soft, Levelheaded,
Carlos: Overprotective, Medical, Fatherly
Sarah: Loneliness, Friendship, Anxiety
Kenny: Family, Regret, Suffering,
Matthew: Teasing, Charity
Sarita: Kindness, Fellowship,
Walter: Idealism, Charity, Scholarly
Carver: Family, Darwinism, Tyranny
Bonnie: Honesty, Lost, Trust
Troy: Laziness, Temper, Hate,
Tavia: Community, Assistance
Reggie: Optimism, Delusional, Desperation,
Mike: Helpful, Realistic, Odd,
Jane: Pragmatism, Bitter, Regret,
Arvo: Reluctance, Passive, Retribution,
Natasha: Illness, Sensible,
Buricko: Aggression, Retribution
Vitali: Aggression, Crazy
What is definitely the most egregious example of this is Clementine herself, by which I mean very little of what she experiences in this story has any lasting impact or meaningful consequences on her character. This includes, but is not limited to, her remorse concerning the death of Omid, her feelings of coldness brought on by her emotional and physical separation from Christ, her friendship and mentoring relationship with Sarah, her confidant and encouraging role towards Nick, her sibling like partnership with Luke, her support of Rebecca concerning her stress over her family, her chance at closure on the topic of Christa and Omid, her animosity with the likes of Carver and Troy, and her guilt over ruining the life of Arvo. Admittedly, some of this basically comes down to her being the playable character with various determinate options towards certain things but this was a problem that the previous protagonist Lee did not have.