Well, here's my new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0MprCcHdU
Make sure you have plenty of free time before you watch. I already know this is going to be my most polarizing review due to the episode it's about.
Well, here's my new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0MprCcHdU
Make sure you have plenty of free time before you watch. I already know this is going to be my most polarizing review due to the episode it's about.
Well, here's my new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0MprCcHdU
Make sure you have plenty of free time before you watch. I already know this is going to be my most polarizing review due to the episode it's about.
I am glad that there is another person that hates the "kill Kenny after he kills Jane" path as much as I do
If that scene was a person, I'd kick it out of a plane and into a field of cacti
Wow. You know, I knew this episode had problems but you pointed out things I didn't think that much about.
Episode 3 is considered the best?!
I love how you repeatedly call Jane out on her "logic." Expert survivalist, everyone.
Kenny was originally gonna be the villain of Season 2, so it's possible that his sanity slippage was a mythology gag.
I really love how you simultaneously hate Arvo(for good reason) but also take the time out to point out the issues with his "villainy" throughout the episode. I try to do the same with Jane(who's responsible for the Russian situation, among many other things), but it's not always easy.
I talked about this somewhere else, but the whole "Arvo shoots by accident" thing comes from a very easy to miss detail: his facial expression when Mike looks back at him. Here's my previous writeup:
Okay, admittedly this is something that's lost in translation and unavoidable due to things that have to happen because the story demands. What he/she's referring to is the notion that Arvo may have shot Clementine by accident on nicer playthrough's due to a look of shock/horror on his face. Having done the research, I can confirm that this is indeed true, but the problem is the cinematography.
This most likely refers to the cut where Mike looks back at him after Clementine drops to the ground: if you were mean/threatening towards Arvo and Mike, Arvo will have a glare on his face before looking up at Mike and almost immediately stumbling off in a nervous panic; however, if you were nice/cooperative towards Arvo and Mike, his facial expression is a more wide-eyed one of surprise, as if he didn't consciously intend to actually shoot her. However, because the camera doesn't actually focus on this combined with people just being swerved that he actually shot Clementine, it's a relatively negligent detail that most people just don't notice.
Yes, Jane is just chock full of all this uncomfortable baggage, bad writing, and unfortunate implications that make her unintentionally unsympathetic. I know you handwaved it for the sake of focusing on the episode itself, but her treatment of Sarah is one of the biggest examples of this.
Wow, I never realized how much the episode was biased against Kenny. The fact that you can shoot Kenny after he kills Jane but never do the same for Jane was unfair for a number of reasons.
That whole pandering, fanservice, and nostalgia topic is indeed a huge source of Season 2's problems. Someone should do a critique about it.
"Kenny just killed someone, so I'm going to KILL him because killing is wrong. ...WHAT?!"
Yep, pretty much. That was the logic I went with on my first playthrough's ending. Originally, I shot Kenny because as much as I hated Jane, Kenny was about to go down the same road Lilly did and so shooting him prevented him from crossing that line; when the truth was revealed, I reloaded and let him kill Jane before executing him.
Well, here's my new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0MprCcHdU
Make sure you have plenty of free time before you watch. I already know this is going to be my most polarizing review due to the episode it's about.
First I want to say, thank you guys for your support, I'm really surprised at how well received my episode 5 review is here.
To answer your questions my favorite episode is All That Remains, as it is the most in character Clementine is in the season and is overall the least flawed.
This question is hard to answer because season 2 doesn't have any really well written or likeable characters, and any characters that could be likeable end up squandering it. Actually now that I think about it, all of the characters I do like are the ones that get killed off the episode they're introduced. So aside from Kenny and Clementine, I liked Walter and Pete the most. Despite her many many flaws, I still "like" Clementine because it's hard for me to stay mad at my kid no matter how much she disappoints me.
It should've been obvious from my review, in fact I outright say that No Going Back is the worst in my opinion.
It's harder for me to hate characters now that I've looked at all of them more objectively from a writing standpoint. That said, I still hate Arvo and now Jane the most. I'm going go more into detail about this in my last video.
There are more ideas that I think would've worked better in season 2 than what was used, than there are ideas that stood out to me in season 2. As for moments, the Kenny endings of course I really liked, but I also enjoyed when Clem is looking for food with Sam. I also liked when Clementine is in the ski lodge after reuniting with Kenny. Clementine almost drowning in ice water and getting shot are moments that stand out to me in a bad way however, as they demonstrate how overly plot armored she is, and of course the stupid Kenny vs. Jane fight. And the stitching scene stands out to me in a neutral way.
I am most definitely not looking forward to season 3. After how season 2 turned out and how mainstream gaming media has a love affair with Telltale, and how Telltale seemingly refuses to acknowledge criticisms of season 2, there's no reason to believe that season 3 is going to be good. Robert Kirkman being involved adds to that, as well as the fact that the more information that Telltale releases about season 3, the worse it seems season 3 is going to be. The emphasis Telltale put on ties to the comics and making season 3 more accessible to new players gave feelings that Clementine is less of a character in season 3 and more of a lure to keep old players interested, and the confirmation that season 3 is Javier's story solidified these feelings. Lastly, it was confirmed that Clementine's missing finger will be determinant based on your season 2 ending choice, and with how the season 2 final choice was handled and what the outcome of that choice was for most people, I'm a firm believer that Telltale will use Clementine's missing finger as a means of retroactively making Jane's endings superior and punishing people who chose Kenny over Jane. And they'll frame it as being his fault too. I'm also worried about season 3 being a villain origin story for Clementine even if the story isn't even about her.
Well, as we await the time period for your wrap up video, I guess I'll ask you some personal questions.
What was your favorite episode of… more the Season?
Who was your favorite character(s)?
What was the worst episode in your personal opinion?
Which character(s) was your least favorite?
Are there any concepts, moments, or ideas that stood out to you?
Are you looking forward to Season 3?
First I want to say, thank you guys for your support, I'm really surprised at how well received my episode 5 review is here.
You're welcome, mate!
Honestly, Episode 5 was always in the middle for me in that I know it has a lot of problems that comes from the fact that it was trying to wrap up the same zigzagging story from the previous episodes but it also told it's own relatively straightforward story that utilizes most of it's cast besides Natasha and Buricko. So, with Amid the Ruins being so polarizing writing wise and Episode 3 being the weakest in my opinion, it just averages out.
All That Remains
Understandable, given that it and Episode 2 are usually considered people's favorites.
This question is hard to answer because season 2 doesn't have any really well written or likeable characters, and any characters that could be likeable end up squandering it.
Interesting. Out of those characters, who comes the closest?
Kenny, Clementine, Walter, and Pete
Okay. ...Sorry I don't have a bigger comment here, it's just that those last two in particular are not uncommon choices.
No Going Back
Yeah, it really should've been obvious considering that "...WHAT?!" was probably the most heated you got in these videos.
Arvo, Jane
Again, perfectly understandable.
I personally never hated Arvo but I wasn't too fond of him initially.
Jane on the other hand is one of the select few I legitimately hate. Not as much as I used to, mind you, but yeah, she's still a sociopath.
I'm going go more into detail about this in my last video.
Ooh, interesting. I await your update!
There are more ideas that I think would've worked better in season 2 than what was used, than there are ideas that stood out to me in season 2.
Okay. I'll wait for either your reply or your next video to get idea of what you mean.
Good: Kenny endings, when Clem is looking for food with Sam., when Clementine is in the ski lodge after reuniting with Kenny.
Bad: Clementine almost drowning in ice water, getting shot , overly plot armored she is, the stupid Kenny vs. Jane fight.
Neutral: And the stitching scene stands out to me in a neutral way.
Neat.
I am most definitely not looking forward to season 3.
Yeah, I'm right there with you. It feels like they've been getting rid of everything that made TWDG special.
I'm also worried about season 3 being a villain origin story for Clementine even if the story isn't even about her.
First I want to say, thank you guys for your support, I'm really surprised at how well received my episode 5 review is here.
To answer yo… moreur questions my favorite episode is All That Remains, as it is the most in character Clementine is in the season and is overall the least flawed.
This question is hard to answer because season 2 doesn't have any really well written or likeable characters, and any characters that could be likeable end up squandering it. Actually now that I think about it, all of the characters I do like are the ones that get killed off the episode they're introduced. So aside from Kenny and Clementine, I liked Walter and Pete the most. Despite her many many flaws, I still "like" Clementine because it's hard for me to stay mad at my kid no matter how much she disappoints me.
It should've been obvious from my review, in fact I outright say that No Going Back is the worst in my opinion.
It's harder for me to hate cha… [view original content]
Which squandered character is the most likeable? I don't want to say too much to avoid giving away anything I might say in my last video, but Bonnie and Mike are the most obvious choices here.
I'll wait for either your reply or your next video to get idea of what you mean.
One thing I will say is that I think the group going against Kenny could've worked better as something that a villain like Carver tries to take advantage of. Such as Carver trying to get Kenny to betray his group by basically saying "Your people don't appreciate what you do for them, so why don't you join me instead?"
First I want to say, thank you guys for your support, I'm really surprised at how well received my episode 5 review is here.
You're … morewelcome, mate!
Honestly, Episode 5 was always in the middle for me in that I know it has a lot of problems that comes from the fact that it was trying to wrap up the same zigzagging story from the previous episodes but it also told it's own relatively straightforward story that utilizes most of it's cast besides Natasha and Buricko. So, with Amid the Ruins being so polarizing writing wise and Episode 3 being the weakest in my opinion, it just averages out.
All That Remains
Understandable, given that it and Episode 2 are usually considered people's favorites.
This question is hard to answer because season 2 doesn't have any really well written or likeable characters, and any characters that could be likeable end up squandering it.
Interesting. Out of those characters, who come… [view original content]
Out of those characters, who comes the closest?
Which squandered character is the most likeable? I don't want to say too much to avo… moreid giving away anything I might say in my last video, but Bonnie and Mike are the most obvious choices here.
I'll wait for either your reply or your next video to get idea of what you mean.
One thing I will say is that I think the group going against Kenny could've worked better as something that a villain like Carver tries to take advantage of. Such as Carver trying to get Kenny to betray his group by basically saying "Your people don't appreciate what you do for them, so why don't you join me instead?"
how Telltale seemingly refuses to acknowledge criticisms of season 2, there's no reason to believe that season 3 is going to be good.
I wouldn't flat out say they don't acknowledge the criticisms at least in a way of how they made Tales from the Borderlands right after S2. I don't know if you've played Tales, but like S1 of TWD it puts a lot more emphasis on delving into character relationships and having a great bit of downtime in order for the characters to come alive adding in different hub areas where you have the option of talking to other characters and making conversation (not to the extent of S1 TWD but WAY more compared to Wolf and S2). So Tales and Michonne, to an extent, give me some hope Telltale can write a good story with good characters given that I think S2 just suffered from a rushed, inconsistent, and lack of focus production considering I believe there's some truth to the rumors that Telltale kept losing employees during the production of S2 and Wolf.
The emphasis Telltale put on ties to the comics and making season 3 more accessible to new players gave feelings that Clementine is less of a character in season 3 and more of a lure to keep old players interested, and the confirmation that season 3 is Javier's story solidified these feelings.
The accessibility to new players with S3 doesn't really bother me considering on that front, S3 ,possibly, isn't going to be tied down with countless S2 references and has a chance to do something really good and interesting cause without all of the nostalgia of S1, S2 is kind of a nothing story with not a lot of meaning cause it's so heavily informed by S1 and is constantly borrowing ideas from S1 without any of the substance. I do agree that introducing Javier might sort of end up being Telltale's way of easing people away from Clementine but if the writing is good and character development is good, I won't have a huge problem with it and maybe the flashbacks with Clem will be a fine alternative instead of a stupid "16 months later" time skip.
First I want to say, thank you guys for your support, I'm really surprised at how well received my episode 5 review is here.
To answer yo… moreur questions my favorite episode is All That Remains, as it is the most in character Clementine is in the season and is overall the least flawed.
This question is hard to answer because season 2 doesn't have any really well written or likeable characters, and any characters that could be likeable end up squandering it. Actually now that I think about it, all of the characters I do like are the ones that get killed off the episode they're introduced. So aside from Kenny and Clementine, I liked Walter and Pete the most. Despite her many many flaws, I still "like" Clementine because it's hard for me to stay mad at my kid no matter how much she disappoints me.
It should've been obvious from my review, in fact I outright say that No Going Back is the worst in my opinion.
It's harder for me to hate cha… [view original content]
Hi, I've been looking over the forums for a while now and have finally decided to comment on this one, seeing as I watched through your reviews and your final one blew me away completely, it was well done and really goes into depth about the problems surrounding season 2 as a whole.
Firstly I'm glad All That Remains is your favourite episode as my favourite of Season 2 used to be A House Divided, but I've switched to All That Remains now for a number of reasons. Firstly like you pointed out in your review Clementine survives being shot and dunked into an icy lake and shakes it off as if it were nothing. In All That Remains a dog bite is treated as a very serious wound that could get infected, Clementine doesn't magically heal herself, with a small fire or Kenny and Jane's (assumed) advanced medical knowledge. We as the player have to save Clementine, we have to get the equipment and stitch up her own arm. It's a gruelling process that really made me root for Clementine's survival but one thing I applaud All That Remains for doing is making Clementine a child and not pander to fanservice like the later episodes did.
In Episode 2 we start to see some things go off course, Rebecca's 180 shift in attitude or Clem fixing the wind turbine, but overall I feel these are small issues and I still enjoyed the hell out of Episode 2. It's when we get to Episode 3 that Season 2 really takes a nose-dive in having Clem do everything and have everyone trust her. It doesn't feel realistic, whereas Episode 1 did and kept the harsh emotional theme ongoing from Season 1.
Omid's death right from the onset of the episode 1 left me shocked and feeling exactly how I did after Lee died. I felt surreal, numb sort of depressed (that sounds dramatic) but as I was still reeling from Omid's death it matched perfectly to how numb and cold Clem and Christa were 16 months later. Many people don't like the time-skip and I have my issues with it too, but from going to the bright day with Omid and Christa, to the sudden dark forest was a nice change in scenery and reflected how quickly the tone could get darker in this story.
Also who killed Omid? A bandit, who chased off or possibly killed Christa? Bandits, unlike the Russians, Arvo, Carver, Troy, or Kenny or Jane depending if you liked or hated them, all the people who are seen as villains from Episode 3 onwards felt cartoon-ish too me. I didn't feel as threatened by them as I did with the bandits from Episode 1. Michelle was clearly putting on a tough front when she was robbing Clementine, but then showed a more humane side after she shot Omid and expressed regret. Michelle (in the few short moments she was present) felt more dimensional than some of the later villains. Also the dying bandit by the river seemed harsh at first, but then later on he begs you for water and thanks you if you give him that. I'm not saying that makes him a good person at all but makes him more dimensional.
Also these two bandits who barely get any screen-time made me feel threatened because one of them killed Omid, the other one possibly killed Christa (who at the time were our last links to Season 1). They reinforced the theme that the world is full with dangerous people and Clem growing up in a world like this may have caused her to become a darker person as well. However despite how bad these people we caught glimpses of a more human side to them, now compare that to Troy or Carver later on. Carver who had promise but is just battered to death by Kenny for the sake of promoting Kenny as a badass (or unhinged) and with Troy whose death serves the same purpose to make Jane like look a badass. Who did Carver or Troy actually threaten or kill who we cared about? Alvin? Walter? I hadn't grown to love them but I know some people may feel differently, regardless you expect a big baddie like Carver to kill off or maim more of the group. The image from Episode 3 of most of the group and one of Carver's own (Bonnie) standing above him and preparing to escape really just highlighted (too me) how much of a failed villain he was. I felt no tension or feared for my group's lives in Howe's.
In Episode 1 it also felt like multiple things were out to get us, infected wounds, wild animals in woods, distrusting group, the cold weather, walkers (obviously) bandits roaming the place. It also had Clem (rather than kick down doors or survive the impossible) be a child and kick, crawl, bite and scratch to fight off a bandit. Also I enjoyed how she used her small size to sneak into the cabin and get what she needed. I felt like I was playing as a child who had to use more equipment rather than brute strength to achieve her aims. Also she can use the fact she's a little girl to her advantage on the members of the cabin group and resort to blackmail if need be. Proving she was actually thinking during this episode rather than becoming the emotionless blank slate she became later on.
I could go on, but I just wanted to highlight my love for All That Remains (which I feel is underappreciated by the community) but also to highlight the points I made and compare how Clementine was at the start of the series compared to who she is in Episode 5. Your review (getting back to it) really highlighted and put my thoughts into words about why I didn't trust Jane at all and made me side with Kenny more so than I had done before. Unfortunately I'm sticking with my choice to go alone, not because I dislike Kenny as I used too. I was just tired of the amount of screen-time he took up in Season 2 overall and I want Clementine to start anew on her own journey. Ironically enough there was a moment in the game that steeled my will towards going alone and it may be something that surprises you.
It was when Bonnie (if she's cool with you after Luke dies and before her betrayal, so her and Mike were my favourites as I was fed up of being tossed between Kenny and Jane) tells you "Tell me Clem, when was the last time anyone did what you wanted?" As a player did I want to go with Kenny? Did I want to become Jane's replacement sister? I didn't want either option I didn't want the game to force me to pick between the pair (both of whom I didn't like at the time) after I shot Kenny and learnt what Jane did I was more than happy to simply walk off alone.
"If it comes down to it Clem, remember you can always make it on your own" Jane said, well thanks for the advice Jane! It was sweet justice leaving her behind, but one point that made me sad about the direction Season 2 took and particularly no going back was that it made me want to go off on my own. Clem can clearly survive on her own due to plot armour and everyone else around me being idiots or being forced to pick between them. At the end of Season 1 I wanted to find Omid and Christa and at the end of All That Remains (despite the cabin crew being dicks towards me) I wanted to stay with them because Episode 1 kept a very clear and realistic message that an 11 year old cannot survive on her own! By Episode 5 that realism has gone, Clem has survived the impossible, she's outsmarted or outlived all the adults. I felt no love towards those who were left.
Also I agree the game is biased in Jane's favour, they want you too pick her... because? Maybe they want Clementine to become a "badass" Jane like figure (God help us). Then again Kenny's ending clearly had more effort and time put into it, so I imagine Telltale wanted people to pick him as well. I love the Kenny's ending from what I watched but as I stick with my original choices as my "canon" timeline I staying alone right now, although I made separate save files for the Kenny and Jane endings as well. All in all however realism was gone, so with Clementine's plot armour I sent her through that herd knowing full well she'd be fine (as Season 3 has confirmed) but I also saw it as a visual symbol of Clementine walking away from the crap that was the latter half of Season 2 and hopefully towards a better series in Season 3.
Sorry for making this so long, but yeah... your review was awesome and in depth and are you planning to review the episodes for Season 3 when they come out? Would like to hear more from you!
I have played Tales from the Borderlands, and while I think it's the best game Telltale has made since the first season of The Walking Dead, I don't think it shows that Telltale listened to criticisms from TWDS2 for a number of reasons. Different people working on it, different setting, Gearbox worked closely with Telltale on it so it probably had more quality control, also Game of Thrones was made at the same time as TFTB and that game was mediocre at best. I'm sure those rumors of Telltale losing employees during season 2 are true, look at the reviews for Telltale on Glassdoor.com. It confirms a lot of things I suspect were the reason season 2 turned out the way it did.
maybe the flashbacks with Clem will be a fine alternative instead of a stupid "16 months later" time skip.
True, flashbacks would be better than timeskips with no explanation. I'm actually surprised Telltale is doing flashbacks since they seem to be about only moving the story forward.
how Telltale seemingly refuses to acknowledge criticisms of season 2, there's no reason to believe that season 3 is going to be good.
… more I wouldn't flat out say they don't acknowledge the criticisms at least in a way of how they made Tales from the Borderlands right after S2. I don't know if you've played Tales, but like S1 of TWD it puts a lot more emphasis on delving into character relationships and having a great bit of downtime in order for the characters to come alive adding in different hub areas where you have the option of talking to other characters and making conversation (not to the extent of S1 TWD but WAY more compared to Wolf and S2). So Tales and Michonne, to an extent, give me some hope Telltale can write a good story with good characters given that I think S2 just suffered from a rushed, inconsistent, and lack of focus production considering I believe there's some truth to the rumors that Telltale kept losing employees d… [view original content]
Thanks for the comment dude. I like and agree with a lot of what you have to say. I might even mention a few of these things in my last video. Thanks again.
Hi, I've been looking over the forums for a while now and have finally decided to comment on this one, seeing as I watched through your revi… moreews and your final one blew me away completely, it was well done and really goes into depth about the problems surrounding season 2 as a whole.
Firstly I'm glad All That Remains is your favourite episode as my favourite of Season 2 used to be A House Divided, but I've switched to All That Remains now for a number of reasons. Firstly like you pointed out in your review Clementine survives being shot and dunked into an icy lake and shakes it off as if it were nothing. In All That Remains a dog bite is treated as a very serious wound that could get infected, Clementine doesn't magically heal herself, with a small fire or Kenny and Jane's (assumed) advanced medical knowledge. We as the player have to save Clementine, we have to get the equipment and stitch up her own arm. It's a gruelling process that real… [view original content]
Hello, I'm sorry for making you guys wait so long for my last video. I just have a question, did Season 2 win any of the awards it was nominated for? I don't remember hearing about it winning any awards, and it's something I'm going to mention in my review so I want to be sure when I mention it.
Hello, I'm sorry for making you guys wait so long for my last video. I just have a question, did Season 2 win any of the awards it was nomin… moreated for? I don't remember hearing about it winning any awards, and it's something I'm going to mention in my review so I want to be sure when I mention it.
I did not expect this quick of a response at this time of night. Thanks anyway, I've been trying to do some searching of my own but I haven't been finding anything.
I wanted to get this out before season 3 was released, but oh well, my predictions about season 3 turned out to be true anyway. I'm sorry for being lazy with the editing in this video, I rushed to get it out on time. Also word of warning, this is another hour long monstrosity.
Here's my final video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o_Y1FKQctw
I wanted to get this out before season 3 was released, but oh well, my… more predictions about season 3 turned out to be true anyway. I'm sorry for being lazy with the editing in this video, I rushed to get it out on time. Also word of warning, this is another hour long monstrosity.
Good to hear someone else notice the parallels between Kenny and Sarah towards Lee and Clementine, for what its worth.
You made an interesting point about Arvo being a blatant plot device, which I agree with, but I still maintain that he could’ve been a much more morally thought-provoking character if the Russians as a whole had gotten more screentime and prominence.
Woah--the Thrashing you gave Jane! You know, I hate her more than Carver(the one-note Big Bad) and Justin(who I’m sure you’re supposed to dislike),and even I think she had some decent thought into her writing, at least before she lets Sarah die; THAT’s when I thought it began to go downhill as an indirect result of that terrible decision. I think part of the reason I think that is because, retroactively speaking, her suddens bursts of aggression, hypocrisy, and sociopathic behavior was foreshadowing her Moral Event Horizon at the end—in other words, she was insane the entire time! However, your thoughts do line up with an interesting observation someone made a while back: “Is Jane deep and complex because she’s deep and complex or is it the differing efforts of several writers being thrown together into a whole made up of just barely correlating ideas?” At the end of the day though, you’re right about what she is: , a Mary Sue(I hate having to use that term, btw), and a Creator’s Pet.
What?! That line about Jane guilttripping you about Rebecca is still in the game?! The things you don’t know because of priorities.
I love how you took Clementine and pointed how OPPOSITE she is in Season 2, particularly the irony of her being more independent as an eight year old then an eleven year old. …Which probably could’ve been an interesting plot point, now that I think about it, but that’s like a bumper sticker of the Season in general.
Clementine in The Walking Dead Season 2 is kinda like Sonic in SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 2006, when you think about it.
I love how awkwardly timed this moment is:
“Which one sounds more like a friend to Clementine?”
Kenny slowly shakes his head no
As for your comments on talking about Kenny or Jane—THANK YOU! Oh my goodness, I got so sick of that at one point that I honestly considered not visiting as often as I do.
What was this about?
"...recognizing certain lines of dialogue from insides and "other things.""
Here's my final video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o_Y1FKQctw
I wanted to get this out before season 3 was released, but oh well, my… more predictions about season 3 turned out to be true anyway. I'm sorry for being lazy with the editing in this video, I rushed to get it out on time. Also word of warning, this is another hour long monstrosity.
Good to hear someone else notice the parallels between Kenny and Sarah towards Lee and Clementine, for what its worth.
You made an intere… moresting point about Arvo being a blatant plot device, which I agree with, but I still maintain that he could’ve been a much more morally thought-provoking character if the Russians as a whole had gotten more screentime and prominence.
Woah--the Thrashing you gave Jane! You know, I hate her more than Carver(the one-note Big Bad) and Justin(who I’m sure you’re supposed to dislike),and even I think she had some decent thought into her writing, at least before she lets Sarah die; THAT’s when I thought it began to go downhill as an indirect result of that terrible decision. I think part of the reason I think that is because, retroactively speaking, her suddens bursts of aggression, hypocrisy, and sociopathic behavior was foreshadowing her Moral Event Horizon at the end—in other words, she was insane the entir… [view original content]
Clementine in The Walking Dead Season 2 is kinda like Sonic in SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 2006, when you think about it.
Holy shit I did not… more expect someone else to say this. That's what I thought as well.
What was this about?
Not sure if I can say here. I'll PM you.
Comments
Well, here's my new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0MprCcHdU
Make sure you have plenty of free time before you watch. I already know this is going to be my most polarizing review due to the episode it's about.
I've been waiting for this one! [grabs popcorn]
[removed]
I am glad that there is another person that hates the "kill Kenny after he kills Jane" path as much as I do
If that scene was a person, I'd kick it out of a plane and into a field of cacti
Whats the point? Was my reaction when it gave me an option to kill Kenny, I saved him for a reason.
Wow. You know, I knew this episode had problems but you pointed out things I didn't think that much about.
Episode 3 is considered the best?!
I love how you repeatedly call Jane out on her "logic."
Expert survivalist, everyone.
Kenny was originally gonna be the villain of Season 2, so it's possible that his sanity slippage was a mythology gag.
I really love how you simultaneously hate Arvo(for good reason) but also take the time out to point out the issues with his "villainy" throughout the episode. I try to do the same with Jane(who's responsible for the Russian situation, among many other things), but it's not always easy.
I talked about this somewhere else, but the whole "Arvo shoots by accident" thing comes from a very easy to miss detail: his facial expression when Mike looks back at him. Here's my previous writeup:
Yes, Jane is just chock full of all this uncomfortable baggage, bad writing, and unfortunate implications that make her unintentionally unsympathetic. I know you handwaved it for the sake of focusing on the episode itself, but her treatment of Sarah is one of the biggest examples of this.
Wow, I never realized how much the episode was biased against Kenny. The fact that you can shoot Kenny after he kills Jane but never do the same for Jane was unfair for a number of reasons.
That whole pandering, fanservice, and nostalgia topic is indeed a huge source of Season 2's problems. Someone should do a critique about it.
Yep, pretty much.
That was the logic I went with on my first playthrough's ending. Originally, I shot Kenny because as much as I hated Jane, Kenny was about to go down the same road Lilly did and so shooting him prevented him from crossing that line; when the truth was revealed, I reloaded and let him kill Jane before executing him.
Well, as we await the time period for your wrap up video, I guess I'll ask you some personal questions.
What was your favorite episode of the Season?
Who was your favorite character(s)?
What was the worst episode in your personal opinion?
Which character(s) was your least favorite?
Are there any concepts, moments, or ideas that stood out to you?
Are you looking forward to Season 3?
First I want to say, thank you guys for your support, I'm really surprised at how well received my episode 5 review is here.
To answer your questions my favorite episode is All That Remains, as it is the most in character Clementine is in the season and is overall the least flawed.
This question is hard to answer because season 2 doesn't have any really well written or likeable characters, and any characters that could be likeable end up squandering it. Actually now that I think about it, all of the characters I do like are the ones that get killed off the episode they're introduced. So aside from Kenny and Clementine, I liked Walter and Pete the most. Despite her many many flaws, I still "like" Clementine because it's hard for me to stay mad at my kid no matter how much she disappoints me.
It should've been obvious from my review, in fact I outright say that No Going Back is the worst in my opinion.
It's harder for me to hate characters now that I've looked at all of them more objectively from a writing standpoint. That said, I still hate Arvo and now Jane the most. I'm going go more into detail about this in my last video.
There are more ideas that I think would've worked better in season 2 than what was used, than there are ideas that stood out to me in season 2. As for moments, the Kenny endings of course I really liked, but I also enjoyed when Clem is looking for food with Sam. I also liked when Clementine is in the ski lodge after reuniting with Kenny. Clementine almost drowning in ice water and getting shot are moments that stand out to me in a bad way however, as they demonstrate how overly plot armored she is, and of course the stupid Kenny vs. Jane fight. And the stitching scene stands out to me in a neutral way.
I am most definitely not looking forward to season 3. After how season 2 turned out and how mainstream gaming media has a love affair with Telltale, and how Telltale seemingly refuses to acknowledge criticisms of season 2, there's no reason to believe that season 3 is going to be good. Robert Kirkman being involved adds to that, as well as the fact that the more information that Telltale releases about season 3, the worse it seems season 3 is going to be. The emphasis Telltale put on ties to the comics and making season 3 more accessible to new players gave feelings that Clementine is less of a character in season 3 and more of a lure to keep old players interested, and the confirmation that season 3 is Javier's story solidified these feelings. Lastly, it was confirmed that Clementine's missing finger will be determinant based on your season 2 ending choice, and with how the season 2 final choice was handled and what the outcome of that choice was for most people, I'm a firm believer that Telltale will use Clementine's missing finger as a means of retroactively making Jane's endings superior and punishing people who chose Kenny over Jane. And they'll frame it as being his fault too. I'm also worried about season 3 being a villain origin story for Clementine even if the story isn't even about her.
You're welcome, mate!
Honestly, Episode 5 was always in the middle for me in that I know it has a lot of problems that comes from the fact that it was trying to wrap up the same zigzagging story from the previous episodes but it also told it's own relatively straightforward story that utilizes most of it's cast besides Natasha and Buricko. So, with Amid the Ruins being so polarizing writing wise and Episode 3 being the weakest in my opinion, it just averages out.
Understandable, given that it and Episode 2 are usually considered people's favorites.
Interesting. Out of those characters, who comes the closest?
Okay. ...Sorry I don't have a bigger comment here, it's just that those last two in particular are not uncommon choices.
Yeah, it really should've been obvious considering that "...WHAT?!" was probably the most heated you got in these videos.
Again, perfectly understandable.
I personally never hated Arvo but I wasn't too fond of him initially.
Jane on the other hand is one of the select few I legitimately hate. Not as much as I used to, mind you, but yeah, she's still a sociopath.
Ooh, interesting. I await your update!
Okay. I'll wait for either your reply or your next video to get idea of what you mean.
Neat.
Yeah, I'm right there with you. It feels like they've been getting rid of everything that made TWDG special.
...K.
Which squandered character is the most likeable? I don't want to say too much to avoid giving away anything I might say in my last video, but Bonnie and Mike are the most obvious choices here.
One thing I will say is that I think the group going against Kenny could've worked better as something that a villain like Carver tries to take advantage of. Such as Carver trying to get Kenny to betray his group by basically saying "Your people don't appreciate what you do for them, so why don't you join me instead?"
Cool. I think that was the point, to be honest..
Aw, okay. Sounds...neat.(I wasn't too fond of how corny and predictable Carver was, so forgive me for not knowing what else to say.)
I wouldn't flat out say they don't acknowledge the criticisms at least in a way of how they made Tales from the Borderlands right after S2. I don't know if you've played Tales, but like S1 of TWD it puts a lot more emphasis on delving into character relationships and having a great bit of downtime in order for the characters to come alive adding in different hub areas where you have the option of talking to other characters and making conversation (not to the extent of S1 TWD but WAY more compared to Wolf and S2). So Tales and Michonne, to an extent, give me some hope Telltale can write a good story with good characters given that I think S2 just suffered from a rushed, inconsistent, and lack of focus production considering I believe there's some truth to the rumors that Telltale kept losing employees during the production of S2 and Wolf.
The accessibility to new players with S3 doesn't really bother me considering on that front, S3 ,possibly, isn't going to be tied down with countless S2 references and has a chance to do something really good and interesting cause without all of the nostalgia of S1, S2 is kind of a nothing story with not a lot of meaning cause it's so heavily informed by S1 and is constantly borrowing ideas from S1 without any of the substance. I do agree that introducing Javier might sort of end up being Telltale's way of easing people away from Clementine but if the writing is good and character development is good, I won't have a huge problem with it and maybe the flashbacks with Clem will be a fine alternative instead of a stupid "16 months later" time skip.
Hi, I've been looking over the forums for a while now and have finally decided to comment on this one, seeing as I watched through your reviews and your final one blew me away completely, it was well done and really goes into depth about the problems surrounding season 2 as a whole.
Firstly I'm glad All That Remains is your favourite episode as my favourite of Season 2 used to be A House Divided, but I've switched to All That Remains now for a number of reasons. Firstly like you pointed out in your review Clementine survives being shot and dunked into an icy lake and shakes it off as if it were nothing. In All That Remains a dog bite is treated as a very serious wound that could get infected, Clementine doesn't magically heal herself, with a small fire or Kenny and Jane's (assumed) advanced medical knowledge. We as the player have to save Clementine, we have to get the equipment and stitch up her own arm. It's a gruelling process that really made me root for Clementine's survival but one thing I applaud All That Remains for doing is making Clementine a child and not pander to fanservice like the later episodes did.
In Episode 2 we start to see some things go off course, Rebecca's 180 shift in attitude or Clem fixing the wind turbine, but overall I feel these are small issues and I still enjoyed the hell out of Episode 2. It's when we get to Episode 3 that Season 2 really takes a nose-dive in having Clem do everything and have everyone trust her. It doesn't feel realistic, whereas Episode 1 did and kept the harsh emotional theme ongoing from Season 1.
Omid's death right from the onset of the episode 1 left me shocked and feeling exactly how I did after Lee died. I felt surreal, numb sort of depressed (that sounds dramatic) but as I was still reeling from Omid's death it matched perfectly to how numb and cold Clem and Christa were 16 months later. Many people don't like the time-skip and I have my issues with it too, but from going to the bright day with Omid and Christa, to the sudden dark forest was a nice change in scenery and reflected how quickly the tone could get darker in this story.
Also who killed Omid? A bandit, who chased off or possibly killed Christa? Bandits, unlike the Russians, Arvo, Carver, Troy, or Kenny or Jane depending if you liked or hated them, all the people who are seen as villains from Episode 3 onwards felt cartoon-ish too me. I didn't feel as threatened by them as I did with the bandits from Episode 1. Michelle was clearly putting on a tough front when she was robbing Clementine, but then showed a more humane side after she shot Omid and expressed regret. Michelle (in the few short moments she was present) felt more dimensional than some of the later villains. Also the dying bandit by the river seemed harsh at first, but then later on he begs you for water and thanks you if you give him that. I'm not saying that makes him a good person at all but makes him more dimensional.
Also these two bandits who barely get any screen-time made me feel threatened because one of them killed Omid, the other one possibly killed Christa (who at the time were our last links to Season 1). They reinforced the theme that the world is full with dangerous people and Clem growing up in a world like this may have caused her to become a darker person as well. However despite how bad these people we caught glimpses of a more human side to them, now compare that to Troy or Carver later on. Carver who had promise but is just battered to death by Kenny for the sake of promoting Kenny as a badass (or unhinged) and with Troy whose death serves the same purpose to make Jane like look a badass. Who did Carver or Troy actually threaten or kill who we cared about? Alvin? Walter? I hadn't grown to love them but I know some people may feel differently, regardless you expect a big baddie like Carver to kill off or maim more of the group. The image from Episode 3 of most of the group and one of Carver's own (Bonnie) standing above him and preparing to escape really just highlighted (too me) how much of a failed villain he was. I felt no tension or feared for my group's lives in Howe's.
In Episode 1 it also felt like multiple things were out to get us, infected wounds, wild animals in woods, distrusting group, the cold weather, walkers (obviously) bandits roaming the place. It also had Clem (rather than kick down doors or survive the impossible) be a child and kick, crawl, bite and scratch to fight off a bandit. Also I enjoyed how she used her small size to sneak into the cabin and get what she needed. I felt like I was playing as a child who had to use more equipment rather than brute strength to achieve her aims. Also she can use the fact she's a little girl to her advantage on the members of the cabin group and resort to blackmail if need be. Proving she was actually thinking during this episode rather than becoming the emotionless blank slate she became later on.
I could go on, but I just wanted to highlight my love for All That Remains (which I feel is underappreciated by the community) but also to highlight the points I made and compare how Clementine was at the start of the series compared to who she is in Episode 5. Your review (getting back to it) really highlighted and put my thoughts into words about why I didn't trust Jane at all and made me side with Kenny more so than I had done before. Unfortunately I'm sticking with my choice to go alone, not because I dislike Kenny as I used too. I was just tired of the amount of screen-time he took up in Season 2 overall and I want Clementine to start anew on her own journey. Ironically enough there was a moment in the game that steeled my will towards going alone and it may be something that surprises you.
It was when Bonnie (if she's cool with you after Luke dies and before her betrayal, so her and Mike were my favourites as I was fed up of being tossed between Kenny and Jane) tells you "Tell me Clem, when was the last time anyone did what you wanted?" As a player did I want to go with Kenny? Did I want to become Jane's replacement sister? I didn't want either option I didn't want the game to force me to pick between the pair (both of whom I didn't like at the time) after I shot Kenny and learnt what Jane did I was more than happy to simply walk off alone.
"If it comes down to it Clem, remember you can always make it on your own" Jane said, well thanks for the advice Jane! It was sweet justice leaving her behind, but one point that made me sad about the direction Season 2 took and particularly no going back was that it made me want to go off on my own. Clem can clearly survive on her own due to plot armour and everyone else around me being idiots or being forced to pick between them. At the end of Season 1 I wanted to find Omid and Christa and at the end of All That Remains (despite the cabin crew being dicks towards me) I wanted to stay with them because Episode 1 kept a very clear and realistic message that an 11 year old cannot survive on her own! By Episode 5 that realism has gone, Clem has survived the impossible, she's outsmarted or outlived all the adults. I felt no love towards those who were left.
Also I agree the game is biased in Jane's favour, they want you too pick her... because? Maybe they want Clementine to become a "badass" Jane like figure (God help us). Then again Kenny's ending clearly had more effort and time put into it, so I imagine Telltale wanted people to pick him as well. I love the Kenny's ending from what I watched but as I stick with my original choices as my "canon" timeline I staying alone right now, although I made separate save files for the Kenny and Jane endings as well. All in all however realism was gone, so with Clementine's plot armour I sent her through that herd knowing full well she'd be fine (as Season 3 has confirmed) but I also saw it as a visual symbol of Clementine walking away from the crap that was the latter half of Season 2 and hopefully towards a better series in Season 3.
Sorry for making this so long, but yeah... your review was awesome and in depth and are you planning to review the episodes for Season 3 when they come out? Would like to hear more from you!
I have played Tales from the Borderlands, and while I think it's the best game Telltale has made since the first season of The Walking Dead, I don't think it shows that Telltale listened to criticisms from TWDS2 for a number of reasons. Different people working on it, different setting, Gearbox worked closely with Telltale on it so it probably had more quality control, also Game of Thrones was made at the same time as TFTB and that game was mediocre at best. I'm sure those rumors of Telltale losing employees during season 2 are true, look at the reviews for Telltale on Glassdoor.com. It confirms a lot of things I suspect were the reason season 2 turned out the way it did.
True, flashbacks would be better than timeskips with no explanation. I'm actually surprised Telltale is doing flashbacks since they seem to be about only moving the story forward.
Thanks for the comment dude. I like and agree with a lot of what you have to say. I might even mention a few of these things in my last video. Thanks again.
Hello, I'm sorry for making you guys wait so long for my last video. I just have a question, did Season 2 win any of the awards it was nominated for? I don't remember hearing about it winning any awards, and it's something I'm going to mention in my review so I want to be sure when I mention it.
Hey there mate! Nice to hear from you again!
According to the wiki, no. That's as far as I can tell, anyway
I did not expect this quick of a response at this time of night. Thanks anyway, I've been trying to do some searching of my own but I haven't been finding anything.
It's definitely possible but not something I would want to do anytime soon.
Here's my final video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o_Y1FKQctw
I wanted to get this out before season 3 was released, but oh well, my predictions about season 3 turned out to be true anyway. I'm sorry for being lazy with the editing in this video, I rushed to get it out on time. Also word of warning, this is another hour long monstrosity.
Sweet! I'll have a watch ^_^
Good to hear someone else notice the parallels between Kenny and Sarah towards Lee and Clementine, for what its worth.
You made an interesting point about Arvo being a blatant plot device, which I agree with, but I still maintain that he could’ve been a much more morally thought-provoking character if the Russians as a whole had gotten more screentime and prominence.
Woah--the Thrashing you gave Jane! You know, I hate her more than Carver(the one-note Big Bad) and Justin(who I’m sure you’re supposed to dislike),and even I think she had some decent thought into her writing, at least before she lets Sarah die; THAT’s when I thought it began to go downhill as an indirect result of that terrible decision. I think part of the reason I think that is because, retroactively speaking, her suddens bursts of aggression, hypocrisy, and sociopathic behavior was foreshadowing her Moral Event Horizon at the end—in other words, she was insane the entire time! However, your thoughts do line up with an interesting observation someone made a while back: “Is Jane deep and complex because she’s deep and complex or is it the differing efforts of several writers being thrown together into a whole made up of just barely correlating ideas?” At the end of the day though, you’re right about what she is: , a Mary Sue(I hate having to use that term, btw), and a Creator’s Pet.
What?! That line about Jane guilttripping you about Rebecca is still in the game?! The things you don’t know because of priorities.
I love how you took Clementine and pointed how OPPOSITE she is in Season 2, particularly the irony of her being more independent as an eight year old then an eleven year old. …Which probably could’ve been an interesting plot point, now that I think about it, but that’s like a bumper sticker of the Season in general.
Clementine in The Walking Dead Season 2 is kinda like Sonic in SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 2006, when you think about it.
I love how awkwardly timed this moment is:
As for your comments on talking about Kenny or Jane—THANK YOU! Oh my goodness, I got so sick of that at one point that I honestly considered not visiting as often as I do.
What was this about?
Did you hear the news about A New Frontier so far?
Holy shit I did not expect someone else to say this. That's what I thought as well.
Not sure if I can say here. I'll PM you.
I've already seen it, and I know how bad it is.
Huh. Strange minds, I guess.
Oh...that was, uh...kinda boring actually. Not what I was expecting, though.