It was mostly implied that either Rebecca had an affair with Alvin while with Carver, or had an affair with Carver while with Alvin.
Yeah, that is true. And as I noted in my first impressions(which I really need to get around to posting), Carver.
Rape wasn't implied, it was just a shitty comment he made that was to provoke anger from us aka bad writing.
And unfortunately, it's probably the one of only examples where I could accept the obvious conclusion of something. Everything about Carver's personality paints him as a smug psychopath with an obsession with strength in various forms, which suggests that he'd be capable of such a thing.
Also, not to be all "captain obvious-y" here, but if something a bad guy says ticks you off, the writers are doing their job at least decently.
TTG isn't too scared to hint at rape directly like Jolene from season 1, and her daughter.
Never thought I'd have to say this out loud but I don't think they insinuated that's what happened to her unless I'm missing something. I specifically recall Jolene stating that the bandits kept her around as a novelty for a while while they took Danielle into the woods and that she never saw or heard from her after that, even trivializing Lee and Danny's potential malcontent by saying that taking a little girl is the same as taking a can of beans to them.
In addition to that, she wouldn't have been scared to tell Alvin that she was raped.
Ooooh... treading some delicate territory here, but it possible she would've been.
It was mostly implied that either Rebecca had an affair with Alvin while with Carver, or had an affair with Carver while with Alvin. Rape wa… moresn't implied, it was just a shitty comment he made that was to provoke anger from us aka bad writing. Had Carver raped Rebecca, I'm sure there would have been more hints beforehand. TTG isn't too scared to hint at rape directly like Jolene from season 1, and her daughter. So in short, I don't think Carver raped Rebecca at all. I think she was just disgusted by the kind of man he became, and that caused her to regret sleeping with him. Plus the fact that she didn't know who would be the father. In addition to that, she wouldn't have been scared to tell Alvin that she was raped.
I interpreted it as when they got tired of Jolene, they raped her daughter. I think "taking her into the woods" may have had more than a literal meaning and what broke Jolene was that she couldn't protect her even through her own sacrifice.
It was mostly implied that either Rebecca had an affair with Alvin while with Carver, or had an affair with Carver while with Alvin.
… more Yeah, that is true. And as I noted in my first impressions(which I really need to get around to posting), Carver.
Rape wasn't implied, it was just a shitty comment he made that was to provoke anger from us aka bad writing.
And unfortunately, it's probably the one of only examples where I could accept the obvious conclusion of something. Everything about Carver's personality paints him as a smug psychopath with an obsession with strength in various forms, which suggests that he'd be capable of such a thing.
Also, not to be all "captain obvious-y" here, but if something a bad guy says ticks you off, the writers are doing their job at least decently.
TTG isn't too scared to hint at rape directly like Jolene from season 1, and her daughter.
Never thought I'd have to say this out … [view original content]
I thought it was amazing, if that's what you were asking. And I actually only finished it for the first time a couple of days ago.
I don'… moret know why it gets so much hate. Sure, it's not as good as season one, but I think it's still really good.
It has hard choices, very emotional moments and good characters. (I know they weren't very developed, but still)
And also... That ending (the Kenny one) was so sad...
I am not feeling descriptive enough at the moment to elaborate paragraphs, so I will summarize the relationships to have been explored with bullet points.
Cripes man, that's dark. I never thought about it and I wish I never did. Granted, I deliberately convinced myself that they either went Old Yeller on her or simply left her to fend for herself elsewhere for shits and giggles(or a third option that I'm crossing my fingers on), but still.
I interpreted it as when they got tired of Jolene, they raped her daughter. I think "taking her into the woods" may have had more than a literal meaning and what broke Jolene was that she couldn't protect her even through her own sacrifice.
I think it's fair to consider that relationship to be relatively unexplored. I mean yeah, you see some moments where they interact with each other, and Kenny generally acts nice around her, but I always found it weird that, despite Kenny being there throughout all 5 episodes and being the third biggest character behind Clementine and Lee, he never really interacted with Clementine. Clementine and Lee is pretty self-explanatory. Lee and Kenny were also paired together quite often. But we never really saw any dynamics between Kenny and Clementine.
We get implications that Kenny cares about Clementine, and we get told by him that he does, but we're never really shown it.
I don't know, it just strikes me as odd to have these two major characters, both of which play important roles to the protagonist (Lee), never interact with one another, despite the two of them being in the same scene quite often.
Outside of that, Luke and Nick, as some people have already mentioned. At the moment, it almost feels like the supposed 'friendship' exists solely for the sake of Nick-- that it exists to serve a one-sided purpose; to give Nick depth as a character. By giving him a relationship to another more prominent and liked member of his group, players might feel more inclined to sympathize and relate to Nick as a character. Or in super simple terms, they made Nick talk about Luke being his friend so his character could earn some easy brownie points from the players. Ergo, it feels like less of an organic friendship as much as a throw-away line to give Nick more character depth by providing a pre-existing character dynamic between the two. Of course, there was potential to explore and expand upon that relationship. Even if they just had Luke actually reciprocate the feelings I'd be happy. It just feels so one-sided.
Also Carver and Sarah, like you mentioned. I especially think that relationship would be interesting due to Carver's ideologies. He believes in extreme darwinism-- purging the few and the weak in order to protect the many and the strong. He kills Reggie for weakness and incompetence, so how would he feel about Sarah, someone who-- from his skewed perspective-- is intrinsically weak? Would he try to groom and manipulate her like he attempts with Clementine? To turn the follower into the leader? To turn a member of the flock into the shepherd? Or would he come to treat her as a lost cause, doomed to meet the same fate as the likes of Reggie?
Also, in response to the question at the bottom of your post:
Bonnie and Mike exchanging glances when Kenny got in the pickup. Would you call this foreshadowing?
Yes. Mike and Bonnie looking at each other is quite clearly indicating their plan to leave. Both her and Mike were already considering leaving, but it's the scene after Kenny fixes the truck that's the final straw. They're ready to walk out the door after he beats up Arvo, but they decide to give him one last chance, or at least Mike does. But after Kenny's outburst, they realize that they aren't going to be able to convince him otherwise. The glance they exchange is a look of confirmation, that they've both decided what they're going to do. And Mike's words that follow confirm it, if you ask me
"You better talk some sense into him." [Looks over at Kenny] "...for his sake."
If you ask me, it's the "for his sake" at the end that makes his intentions clear.
Not to mention, Bonnie has her own references regarding her choice to leave. Namely, the talk she has with Clementine outside the house if you tried to help Luke.
"No matter where you end up, there's always one bad seed rocking the boat"
She says this, but mentions that Luke would never be that guy. But it's pretty clear who the bad seed is from her perspective; Kenny.
"You ever done something you regret? Even if it's something you knew you had to do?"
This one's a bit more obscure than the above, but this is also alluding to her choice to leave. She feels like she has to get away from Kenny, but at the same time, she knows she's going to regret it. She sees the act as a necessary evil, more or less. She asks this question to Clementine because she's still trying to rationalize it, trying to find some kind of solace to ease the inevitable guilt that will follow.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in the game that the bandits raped Jolene's daughter.
Because at the end of the episode, when you're watching the tape that Jolene recorded, it quickly flicks to a scene for only a couple of seconds where you hear Jolene screaming at the bandits, and she calls them sick rapists.
I guess that doesn't really confirm it, but still.
It was mostly implied that either Rebecca had an affair with Alvin while with Carver, or had an affair with Carver while with Alvin.
… more Yeah, that is true. And as I noted in my first impressions(which I really need to get around to posting), Carver.
Rape wasn't implied, it was just a shitty comment he made that was to provoke anger from us aka bad writing.
And unfortunately, it's probably the one of only examples where I could accept the obvious conclusion of something. Everything about Carver's personality paints him as a smug psychopath with an obsession with strength in various forms, which suggests that he'd be capable of such a thing.
Also, not to be all "captain obvious-y" here, but if something a bad guy says ticks you off, the writers are doing their job at least decently.
TTG isn't too scared to hint at rape directly like Jolene from season 1, and her daughter.
Never thought I'd have to say this out … [view original content]
I thought she was referring to herself, given the fact that whoever it was had her locked in the back of a station wagon. Or at least, making the assumption that's what happened to Danielle.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in the game that the bandits raped Jolene's daughter.
Because at the end of the episode, when yo… moreu're watching the tape that Jolene recorded, it quickly flicks to a scene for only a couple of seconds where you hear Jolene screaming at the bandits, and she calls them sick rapists.
I guess that doesn't really confirm it, but still.
Yeah, I could've sworn they building towards something with those two and the fact that they have some common ground with both Clementine and each other in spite of being opposites really contributed to that notion. They wasted a perfectly good plot there.
If I had to choose one and only one, I'd say the relationship between Jane and Sarah. Besides Jane's lines regarding the similarities she dr… moreew between Sarah and Jamie, they never really interacted directly. A focus on their more personal relationship sounds very interesting. I'd like to see their dynamics.
I think they had a good relationship because she decided to bring Arvo along out of fear for him, Im pretty sure in my gameplay she got angry everytime Kenny threw him or something.
From what I recall from my various cutscene reviewings, Bonnie had a bizarrely neutral stance on Arvo. While the two barely interacted with each other, the best conclusion I could draw was that Bonnie didn't think much of Arvo but also didn't approve of the way Kenny was treating him. There's a small moment during the scene where Clementine catches them in the act that suggested Bonnie didn't really trust him enough to stay calm around Clementine, so her reaction to her being shot comes across as either being angry with Mike for indirectly causing that to happen or being content with Arvo's choice due to her own distrust of Clementine.
Kenny and Sarah
Honestly did those two even say a word to eachother or even look at eachother? I dont think they even interacted onc… moree unlike any other of the characters.
Bonnie and Arvo
I think they had a good relationship because she decided to bring Arvo along out of fear for him, Im pretty sure in my gameplay she got angry everytime Kenny threw him or something.
I noticed how depending on how nice you are to Bonnie, she runs up to Clementine apologizing, still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie. Another choice is she also says "Leave her" in another gameplay. Its so bad I dont think Ive ever seen one person on Bonnies side, but screw the people who are.
I think they had a good relationship because she decided to bring Arvo along out of fear for him, Im pretty sure in my gameplay she got angr… morey everytime Kenny threw him or something.
From what I recall from my various cutscene reviewings, Bonnie had a bizarrely neutral stance on Arvo. While the two barely interacted with each other, the best conclusion I could draw was that Bonnie didn't think much of Arvo but also didn't approve of the way Kenny was treating him. There's a small moment during the scene where Clementine catches them in the act that suggested Bonnie didn't really trust him enough to stay calm around Clementine, so her reaction to her being shot comes across as either being angry with Mike for indirectly causing that to happen or being content with Arvo's choice due to her own distrust of Clementine.
I noticed how depending on how nice you are to Bonnie, she runs up to Clementine apologizing,
Yeah, that's what you'd expect her to do. It's also worth noting that she was originally gonna check on Clementine even though she just killed Mike as well. Whether she was planning to finish her off or not is anyone's guess.
still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie.
To be fair to her in the Save Luke variation, Kenny comes to the door and demands to know what the fuck did they do. There's no time for a civil explanation when there's a little girl with a bullet wound lying at your feet. I'd like to think he'd at least hold off on dealing with her long enough to help Clementine and potentially hear Bonnie's side of the story in the process, but still.
Clementine can still ask if Bonnie's okay, though. Poor little angel.
Its so bad I dont think Ive ever seen one person on Bonnies side, but screw the people who are.
Well, excuse ME, princess! ...Though, I'd be lying if I said that didn't annoy me quite a bit.
""
I noticed how depending on how nice you are to Bonnie, she runs up to Clementine apologizing, still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in… more the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie. Another choice is she also says "Leave her" in another gameplay. Its so bad I dont think Ive ever seen one person on Bonnies side, but screw the people who are.
I noticed how depending on how nice you are to Bonnie, she runs up to Clementine apologizing,
Yeah, that's what you'd expect her to … moredo. It's also worth noting that she was originally gonna check on Clementine even though she just killed Mike as well. Whether she was planning to finish her off or not is anyone's guess.
still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie.
To be fair to her in the Save Luke variation, Kenny comes to the door and demands to know what the fuck did they do. There's no time for a civil explanation when there's a little girl with a bullet wound lying at your feet. I'd like to think he'd at least hold off on dealing with her long enough to help Clementine and potentially hear Bonnie's side of the story in the process, but still.
Clementine can still ask if Bonnie's okay, though. Poor little angel.
Its so bad I dont think Ive ever seen one person on… [view original content]
Carley and Lilly. There seemed to be an element of animosity between the two, though it was never really explored in much depth. Carley's incredibly bitchy attack on Lilly's character, which was a side of her not yet seen, right before her death seemed to hint at, in my view, that neither had much care for the other, and when you consider what happens next- Lilly purposely shooting Carley, it only reinforces my theory that there may have been an unseen rivalry of sorts.
I doubt Kenny would have stopped them if they were honest about wanting to leave and agreed to divide the food fairly. I think he would have said something like "if you want to run away with this sh!tbird be my guest". They could have asked Clem and Jane too. Kenny wouldn't have let any of them take the pickup though.
I noticed how depending on how nice you are to Bonnie, she runs up to Clementine apologizing, still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in… more the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie. Another choice is she also says "Leave her" in another gameplay. Its so bad I dont think Ive ever seen one person on Bonnies side, but screw the people who are.
Bonnie leaving Clementine to die. I could understand why people would still be on Bonnie's side given that she's the second most sympathetic character left at that point with Luke dead, not to mention everything else she did.
I'm just going to assume you were probably responding to my reply to Northstar's "still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie." here.
I doubt Kenny would have stopped them if they were honest about wanting to leave and agreed to divide the food fairly. I think he would have said something like "if you want to run away with this sh!tbird be my guest".
Yeah, I wanna say he wouldn't care what they and Arvo do as long as they don't get in the way of the Wellington plan, too. He seemed content to just leave Arvo at his house in the morning anyway.
Then again, there was that moment where he asks Clementine to go check on them at the museum in which he suspiciously and specifically denies not trusting them. So who knows?
They could have asked Clem and Jane too.
I'm not sure about Jane, honestly, since she was the type to go off on her own anyway. But yeah, they probably should've thought about at least giving Clementine a brief heads up about their plan to prevent any confusion.
Part of me still likes to think that they would've had they not been in such a hurry to get things ready to go. After all, Mike's reaction to Clementine showing up seems to imply that they may have neglected to consider telling her and realize that she kinda caught them at an inopportune time. Plus, if she asks to go with them, Mike's line during and after securing the gun seems to imply that he would've been perfectly fine with bringing her along, but unfortunately, he didn't consider that Arvo doesn't trust her.
I doubt Kenny would have stopped them if they were honest about wanting to leave and agreed to divide the food fairly. I think he would have… more said something like "if you want to run away with this sh!tbird be my guest". They could have asked Clem and Jane too. Kenny wouldn't have let any of them take the pickup though.
Taavia and Troy is another odd one. Both work for Carver and apparently have as much power as Bonnie, so I guess it would've been neat to see how they got along.
Thanks for bumping my post. LOL I agree with this soooo much though!! The three had drastically different personalities. It led me to wonder how Carver got each of them under this spell and what made HIM trust in them. Troy wasn't the brightest crayon in the box, and Bonnie was a weird combination of flaky, dishonest, and remorseful. Tavia was/could have been more interesting than either, but really, really, really needed to be utilised more.
Taavia and Troy is another odd one. Both work for Carver and apparently have as much power as Bonnie, so I guess it would've been neat to see how they got along.
I originally didn't get this exact vibe so this caught me by surprise. But once I took the chance to look at them, they do indeed look similar. Only one is a turned out hick and other is a cookie and cream urban.
With that said, how do you think these two would've worked off each other? With her parents being her number one priority at the time (kinda like Kenny except cute and nowhere near as selfish), seeing Jolene would probably mess with Clementine's conscious and might even make her want to help Jolene even if she knows she's not her mom. And of course, I know that Jolene was fixated on Clementine with the theft of Danielle wearing on her mind and would probably want to protect her from any harm--even if Clementine doesn't want her to.
Taavia is definitely one of the more wasted characters: after acting as the protagonist of 400 Days in which she went out looking for survivors and contributors to her leader's settlement(later revealed to be the presumably less psychotic Bill) and taking in the Survivor Camp with Bonnie joining her in the inner circle, she only shows up in Season 2 as Carver's assumed second in command and another guard besides Bonnie and Troy.
Personally, I would like to believe she was a middle ground between the two in terms of how she did her job.
Thanks for bumping my post. LOL I agree with this soooo much though!! The three had drastically different personalities. It led me to wonder… more how Carver got each of them under this spell and what made HIM trust in them. Troy wasn't the brightest crayon in the box, and Bonnie was a weird combination of flaky, dishonest, and remorseful. Tavia was/could have been more interesting than either, but really, really, really needed to be utilised more.
As another for fun example that also feels like a decent story development, I gonna go ahead and lay my deck on the table with Sarah and Arvo.
It will forever baffle me as to how the same episode where Sarah is recovering from her breakdown and knowingly facing the possibility to being abandon by Clementine or purged by Jane is also the same episode to introduce Arvo(who can be seen as an evil counterpart or shadow archetype to her) as an antagonist--and they do NOTHING with this despite the obvious parallels and the subtle setup for something involving Sarah later. The two have similar appearances, demeanors, motivations, and even end up in similar situations, including some in which Clementine can take pity on them, they are kept in line under the watch of a violent madman, and get by singled out by Jane unprovoked. Sarah being present when Arvo deals with the group, much like her Aggressive Categorism from Jane, would've been an interesting test of her moral character after losing Carlos, but apparently she would've been too much a game breaker or some bullshit.
Carley and Lilly. There seemed to be an element of animosity between the two, though it was never really explored in much depth. Carley's in… morecredibly bitchy attack on Lilly's character, which was a side of her not yet seen, right before her death seemed to hint at, in my view, that neither had much care for the other, and when you consider what happens next- Lilly purposely shooting Carley, it only reinforces my theory that there may have been an unseen rivalry of sorts.
I'm not taking Carley's side, but suicide tends to be a passionately debated moral issue. I see why she would hesitate to give someone the means to take their life. It was not long after the outbreak so people were still hopeful others weren't beyond help.
Actually, I was referring to her obvious annoyance with the fact that Glenn wanted to help her, right down to suggesting they go when her bite is revealed.
I'm not taking Carley's side, but suicide tends to be a passionately debated moral issue. I see why she would hesitate to give someone the m… moreeans to take their life. It was not long after the outbreak so people were still hopeful others weren't beyond help.
Well, Danny was sentenced and on his way to prison for statutory rape, whether he actually did it or not. After his run-ins with psychos like Steve and Nate (and possibly Michelle in my mind), Russell was in no mood to deal with those with vaguely criminal histories, hence his determinant mocking of Bonnie and hesitance to trust Taavia.
Lee and S1 Sam. In a bit of cut dialogue from Starved for Help, Carley/Doug (the one that got eaten at the drugstore) appears in Lee's night… moremare taunting that he couldn't save either themself or Sam. It must have happened in the 3-month time skip after A New Day, and they seem to make it a pretty big deal, but nowhere else in cut, included, or external content is this "Sam" mentioned.
Also, Carver's George. Clearly, there's some relation to Alvin, and Alvin had beef with Carver, so I'm guessing George might have had something to do with Carver raping Rebecca. Maybe he was trying to stop the rape and got killed by mistake, or he was the instigator/enabler, or who knows? As much as I thought he could've been an excuse for Carver to have it out for Alvin, using his name as an alias and reminding Alvin about George while at gunpoint seems to imply that he meant a greater deal to Carver than we know.
Ben and Lilly was a connection that we only saw the negative side of. Lilly was very against having him around the group in the first place, even insisting that she never trusted him when she holds him suspect for slipping supplies to the bandits, and Ben mentions that she scares him if asked. And yet, she still saw fit to keep him around during the formulation of the St. John deal, having him stay behind to guard the motel alongside Carley/Doug and putting him on watch while Lee and Kenny go to scavenge more supplies from the pharmacy. Makes me wonder how the two actually interacted one on one.
Oddly enough, I recall seeing some agreement that there may have been something more, on Ben's end at least...
Here's a few interactions I would've liked to have seen, if only for the fun of it
Lee and Alvin
Clementine and Jolene
Kenny and Nate
… moreLilly and Sarita
Larry and Troy
Ben and Lilly
Danny and Jolene
Christa and Rebecca
Molly and Ben
Vernon and Roman
Vince and Jane
Russell and Michelle
Nate and Jolene
Eddie and Bonnie
Bonnie and Nick
Shel and Carlos
Becca and Carver
Luke and Shel
Sarah and Arvo
Nick and Sarah
Sarita and Reggie
Jane and Natasha
Kenny and Randall. Oh, goodness...the collateral damage.... They'd probably try to kill each other, given that Kenny has a small reputation for rattling cages and Randall has some sort of fascination with killing children.
Kenny and Randall. Oh, goodness...the collateral damage.... They'd probably try to kill each other, given that Kenny has a small reputation for rattling cages and Randall has some sort of fascination with killing children.
Ben and Lilly was a connection that we only saw the negative side of. Lilly was very against having him around the group in the first place,… more even insisting that she never trusted him when she holds him suspect for slipping supplies to the bandits, and Ben mentions that she scares him if asked. And yet, she still saw fit to keep him around during the formulation of the St. John deal, having him stay behind to guard the motel alongside Carley/Doug and putting him on watch while Lee and Kenny go to scavenge more supplies from the pharmacy. Makes me wonder how the two actually interacted one on one.
Oddly enough, I recall seeing some agreement that there may have been something more, on Ben's end at least...
Well, Danny was sentenced and on his way to prison for statutory rape, whether he actually did it or not. After his run-ins with psychos lik… moree Steve and Nate (and possibly Michelle in my mind), Russell was in no mood to deal with those with vaguely criminal histories, hence his determinant mocking of Bonnie and hesitance to trust Taavia.
Comments
Yeah, that is true. And as I noted in my first impressions(which I really need to get around to posting), Carver.
And unfortunately, it's probably the one of only examples where I could accept the obvious conclusion of something. Everything about Carver's personality paints him as a smug psychopath with an obsession with strength in various forms, which suggests that he'd be capable of such a thing.
Also, not to be all "captain obvious-y" here, but if something a bad guy says ticks you off, the writers are doing their job at least decently.
Never thought I'd have to say this out loud but I don't think they insinuated that's what happened to her unless I'm missing something. I specifically recall Jolene stating that the bandits kept her around as a novelty for a while while they took Danielle into the woods and that she never saw or heard from her after that, even trivializing Lee and Danny's potential malcontent by saying that taking a little girl is the same as taking a can of beans to them.
Ooooh... treading some delicate territory here, but it possible she would've been.
I interpreted it as when they got tired of Jolene, they raped her daughter. I think "taking her into the woods" may have had more than a literal meaning and what broke Jolene was that she couldn't protect her even through her own sacrifice.
I have no idea what ending I'll use as my background for season 3. Probably Kenny. It was hard to choose because I like Kenny and Jane.
I believe that this is a thread with potential!
I am not feeling descriptive enough at the moment to elaborate paragraphs, so I will summarize the relationships to have been explored with bullet points.
Season One
Katjaa and Lilly
Katjaa and Larry
Katjaa and Carley
Katjaa and Doug
Katjaa and Clementine
Christa and Molly
Christa and Vernon
Molly and Vernon
Boyd, Joyce, Clive, Brie and Vernon
Season Two
Rebecca and Pete
Rebecca and Sarah
Rebecca and Carlos
Rebecca and Nick
Carlos and Nick
Sarah and Nick
Alvin and Nick
Carlos and Pete
Carlos and Bonnie
Nick and Bonnie
Bonnie and Jane
Jane and Mike
Jane and Carver
Bonnie and Arvo
Michonne Miniseries
Gabby and Randall
Gabby and Zachary
Gabby and Norma
Zachary and Norma
Jonas and Norma
Samantha and Pete
Cripes man, that's dark. I never thought about it and I wish I never did. Granted, I deliberately convinced myself that they either went Old Yeller on her or simply left her to fend for herself elsewhere for shits and giggles(or a third option that I'm crossing my fingers on), but still.
Kenny and Clementine in S1.
I think it's fair to consider that relationship to be relatively unexplored. I mean yeah, you see some moments where they interact with each other, and Kenny generally acts nice around her, but I always found it weird that, despite Kenny being there throughout all 5 episodes and being the third biggest character behind Clementine and Lee, he never really interacted with Clementine. Clementine and Lee is pretty self-explanatory. Lee and Kenny were also paired together quite often. But we never really saw any dynamics between Kenny and Clementine.
We get implications that Kenny cares about Clementine, and we get told by him that he does, but we're never really shown it.
I don't know, it just strikes me as odd to have these two major characters, both of which play important roles to the protagonist (Lee), never interact with one another, despite the two of them being in the same scene quite often.
Outside of that, Luke and Nick, as some people have already mentioned. At the moment, it almost feels like the supposed 'friendship' exists solely for the sake of Nick-- that it exists to serve a one-sided purpose; to give Nick depth as a character. By giving him a relationship to another more prominent and liked member of his group, players might feel more inclined to sympathize and relate to Nick as a character. Or in super simple terms, they made Nick talk about Luke being his friend so his character could earn some easy brownie points from the players. Ergo, it feels like less of an organic friendship as much as a throw-away line to give Nick more character depth by providing a pre-existing character dynamic between the two. Of course, there was potential to explore and expand upon that relationship. Even if they just had Luke actually reciprocate the feelings I'd be happy. It just feels so one-sided.
Also Carver and Sarah, like you mentioned. I especially think that relationship would be interesting due to Carver's ideologies. He believes in extreme darwinism-- purging the few and the weak in order to protect the many and the strong. He kills Reggie for weakness and incompetence, so how would he feel about Sarah, someone who-- from his skewed perspective-- is intrinsically weak? Would he try to groom and manipulate her like he attempts with Clementine? To turn the follower into the leader? To turn a member of the flock into the shepherd? Or would he come to treat her as a lost cause, doomed to meet the same fate as the likes of Reggie?
Also, in response to the question at the bottom of your post:
Yes. Mike and Bonnie looking at each other is quite clearly indicating their plan to leave. Both her and Mike were already considering leaving, but it's the scene after Kenny fixes the truck that's the final straw. They're ready to walk out the door after he beats up Arvo, but they decide to give him one last chance, or at least Mike does. But after Kenny's outburst, they realize that they aren't going to be able to convince him otherwise. The glance they exchange is a look of confirmation, that they've both decided what they're going to do. And Mike's words that follow confirm it, if you ask me
If you ask me, it's the "for his sake" at the end that makes his intentions clear.
Not to mention, Bonnie has her own references regarding her choice to leave. Namely, the talk she has with Clementine outside the house if you tried to help Luke.
She says this, but mentions that Luke would never be that guy. But it's pretty clear who the bad seed is from her perspective; Kenny.
This one's a bit more obscure than the above, but this is also alluding to her choice to leave. She feels like she has to get away from Kenny, but at the same time, she knows she's going to regret it. She sees the act as a necessary evil, more or less. She asks this question to Clementine because she's still trying to rationalize it, trying to find some kind of solace to ease the inevitable guilt that will follow.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in the game that the bandits raped Jolene's daughter.
Because at the end of the episode, when you're watching the tape that Jolene recorded, it quickly flicks to a scene for only a couple of seconds where you hear Jolene screaming at the bandits, and she calls them sick rapists.
I guess that doesn't really confirm it, but still.
I thought she was referring to herself, given the fact that whoever it was had her locked in the back of a station wagon. Or at least, making the assumption that's what happened to Danielle.
Yeah, I could've sworn they building towards something with those two and the fact that they have some common ground with both Clementine and each other in spite of being opposites really contributed to that notion. They wasted a perfectly good plot there.
From what I recall from my various cutscene reviewings, Bonnie had a bizarrely neutral stance on Arvo. While the two barely interacted with each other, the best conclusion I could draw was that Bonnie didn't think much of Arvo but also didn't approve of the way Kenny was treating him. There's a small moment during the scene where Clementine catches them in the act that suggested Bonnie didn't really trust him enough to stay calm around Clementine, so her reaction to her being shot comes across as either being angry with Mike for indirectly causing that to happen or being content with Arvo's choice due to her own distrust of Clementine.
I noticed how depending on how nice you are to Bonnie, she runs up to Clementine apologizing, still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie. Another choice is she also says "Leave her" in another gameplay. Its so bad I dont think Ive ever seen one person on Bonnies side, but screw the people who are.
Yeah, that's what you'd expect her to do. It's also worth noting that she was originally gonna check on Clementine even though she just killed Mike as well. Whether she was planning to finish her off or not is anyone's guess.
To be fair to her in the Save Luke variation, Kenny comes to the door and demands to know what the fuck did they do. There's no time for a civil explanation when there's a little girl with a bullet wound lying at your feet. I'd like to think he'd at least hold off on dealing with her long enough to help Clementine and potentially hear Bonnie's side of the story in the process, but still.
Clementine can still ask if Bonnie's okay, though. Poor little angel.
Well, excuse ME, princess! ...Though, I'd be lying if I said that didn't annoy me quite a bit.
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Bonnie or the people on Bonnies side?
Carley and Lilly. There seemed to be an element of animosity between the two, though it was never really explored in much depth. Carley's incredibly bitchy attack on Lilly's character, which was a side of her not yet seen, right before her death seemed to hint at, in my view, that neither had much care for the other, and when you consider what happens next- Lilly purposely shooting Carley, it only reinforces my theory that there may have been an unseen rivalry of sorts.
I doubt Kenny would have stopped them if they were honest about wanting to leave and agreed to divide the food fairly. I think he would have said something like "if you want to run away with this sh!tbird be my guest". They could have asked Clem and Jane too. Kenny wouldn't have let any of them take the pickup though.
Bonnie leaving Clementine to die. I could understand why people would still be on Bonnie's side given that she's the second most sympathetic character left at that point with Luke dead, not to mention everything else she did.
I'm just going to assume you were probably responding to my reply to Northstar's "still who tf just leaves a little girl shot in the cold like that, I thought better of Bonnie." here.
Yeah, I wanna say he wouldn't care what they and Arvo do as long as they don't get in the way of the Wellington plan, too. He seemed content to just leave Arvo at his house in the morning anyway.
Then again, there was that moment where he asks Clementine to go check on them at the museum in which he suspiciously and specifically denies not trusting them. So who knows?
I'm not sure about Jane, honestly, since she was the type to go off on her own anyway. But yeah, they probably should've thought about at least giving Clementine a brief heads up about their plan to prevent any confusion.
Part of me still likes to think that they would've had they not been in such a hurry to get things ready to go. After all, Mike's reaction to Clementine showing up seems to imply that they may have neglected to consider telling her and realize that she kinda caught them at an inopportune time. Plus, if she asks to go with them, Mike's line during and after securing the gun seems to imply that he would've been perfectly fine with bringing her along, but unfortunately, he didn't consider that Arvo doesn't trust her.
Taavia and Troy is another odd one. Both work for Carver and apparently have as much power as Bonnie, so I guess it would've been neat to see how they got along.
Thanks for bumping my post. LOL I agree with this soooo much though!! The three had drastically different personalities. It led me to wonder how Carver got each of them under this spell and what made HIM trust in them. Troy wasn't the brightest crayon in the box, and Bonnie was a weird combination of flaky, dishonest, and remorseful. Tavia was/could have been more interesting than either, but really, really, really needed to be utilised more.
To expand on one of my "only for the fun of it" examples, let's briefly talk about Clementine and Jolene. Apparently, this was a thing.
I originally didn't get this exact vibe so this caught me by surprise. But once I took the chance to look at them, they do indeed look similar. Only one is a turned out hick and other is a cookie and cream urban.
With that said, how do you think these two would've worked off each other? With her parents being her number one priority at the time (kinda like Kenny except cute and nowhere near as selfish), seeing Jolene would probably mess with Clementine's conscious and might even make her want to help Jolene even if she knows she's not her mom. And of course, I know that Jolene was fixated on Clementine with the theft of Danielle wearing on her mind and would probably want to protect her from any harm--even if Clementine doesn't want her to.
Taavia is definitely one of the more wasted characters: after acting as the protagonist of 400 Days in which she went out looking for survivors and contributors to her leader's settlement(later revealed to be the presumably less psychotic Bill) and taking in the Survivor Camp with Bonnie joining her in the inner circle, she only shows up in Season 2 as Carver's assumed second in command and another guard besides Bonnie and Troy.
Personally, I would like to believe she was a middle ground between the two in terms of how she did her job.
As another for fun example that also feels like a decent story development, I gonna go ahead and lay my deck on the table with Sarah and Arvo.
It will forever baffle me as to how the same episode where Sarah is recovering from her breakdown and knowingly facing the possibility to being abandon by Clementine or purged by Jane is also the same episode to introduce Arvo(who can be seen as an evil counterpart or shadow archetype to her) as an antagonist--and they do NOTHING with this despite the obvious parallels and the subtle setup for something involving Sarah later. The two have similar appearances, demeanors, motivations, and even end up in similar situations, including some in which Clementine can take pity on them, they are kept in line under the watch of a violent madman, and get by singled out by Jane unprovoked. Sarah being present when Arvo deals with the group, much like her Aggressive Categorism from Jane, would've been an interesting test of her moral character after losing Carlos, but apparently she would've been too much a game breaker or some bullshit.
There was her reaction to Irene.
I'm not taking Carley's side, but suicide tends to be a passionately debated moral issue. I see why she would hesitate to give someone the means to take their life. It was not long after the outbreak so people were still hopeful others weren't beyond help.
Actually, I was referring to her obvious annoyance with the fact that Glenn wanted to help her, right down to suggesting they go when her bite is revealed.
Russell and Danny from 400 Days.
Russell said that he was glad he died before Shel and Becca came. I wonder why...
Well, Danny was sentenced and on his way to prison for statutory rape, whether he actually did it or not. After his run-ins with psychos like Steve and Nate (and possibly Michelle in my mind), Russell was in no mood to deal with those with vaguely criminal histories, hence his determinant mocking of Bonnie and hesitance to trust Taavia.
Apparently, Sam was the name of Lee's wife.
Ben and Lilly was a connection that we only saw the negative side of. Lilly was very against having him around the group in the first place, even insisting that she never trusted him when she holds him suspect for slipping supplies to the bandits, and Ben mentions that she scares him if asked. And yet, she still saw fit to keep him around during the formulation of the St. John deal, having him stay behind to guard the motel alongside Carley/Doug and putting him on watch while Lee and Kenny go to scavenge more supplies from the pharmacy. Makes me wonder how the two actually interacted one on one.
Oddly enough, I recall seeing some agreement that there may have been something more, on Ben's end at least...
Paige and Sam from TWD:M. And probably Luke and Jane from S2 TWD.
It amazes me how much thought you give in answering all these questions and creating threads. Like, really.
To be fair, I had already thought about some of them ahead of time and the rest is just vague similarities and plot relevant connections.
Kenny and Randall. Oh, goodness...the collateral damage....
They'd probably try to kill each other, given that Kenny has a small reputation for rattling cages and Randall has some sort of fascination with killing children.
Kenny would murder Randall lmao.
Is commenting on your own topic frowned upon? At any rate, did Kenny and Bonnie ever speak to one another directly?
I recall them briefly talking to each when Arvo comes back, when they're taking him prisoner, and if Kenny knocks him out.
Also, no, I don't think so since I do it a lot.
I don't know, Luke and Jane's relationship struck me as pretty deep.
I would've liked to see Carley and Clem interact more.
Indeed Dabig, I wish we could've seen more of the two's interactions and development with one another...Poor Lily, and Poor Ben too.
Actually I think Danny WILL admit he did it if you aim the shotgun at him long enough...I haven't done it personally myself so I'm not sure.