The only stupid mistake Sarah made was accidentally leaving behind evidence of her existence to tip off her group's whereabouts to Carver when she played around with a Polaroid camera, and even then I can't really fault her considering that she was basically left to her own devices with Clementine by her father without being fully informed of what was happening around the cabin and that Carver was coming after them.
Not to mention that Carver had almost certainly figured things out beforehand due to all the dishes in the kitchen and Carlos's shirt on the coffee table.
Besides the 'faking the baby's death' plan in the finale, she also indirectly caused the shootout by choosing to let Arvo walk free to inform them of having been threatened and robbed by Clementine's group, who she was a part of at the time.
There's also the fact that she technically has a hand in Luke and Sarah's death regardless of your choices, appropriately enough.
I wouldn't say that Jane is terrible as both a person or a character, but I do agree that Jane caused more trouble and dilemmas to the group… more than Sarah had.
I get that Sarah had made mistakes and is not a shining example of a good team member, but most of these mistakes she makes comes down to how the environment affects her and how she's prevented from adapting and learning to be a capable individual by her father rather than her own choices causing problems for everyone.
The only stupid mistake Sarah made was accidentally leaving behind evidence of her existence to tip off her group's whereabouts to Carver when she played around with a Polaroid camera, and even then I can't really fault her considering that she was basically left to her own devices with Clementine by her father without being fully informed of what was happening around the cabin and that Carver was coming after them.
Meanwhile, Jane does offer some good survival tip… [view original content]
Jane fucked up more than Sarah ever did. While everyone was so busy complaining about Luke they seemed to have forgotten who also had sex at… more the worst possible time and took a gun and possibly medicine from someone making that person’s group want to attack them. But Jane doesn’t have to suffer from that because she up and leaves.
Okay, no joke, I actually laughed when I saw this because of the wording until I read what the description actually said. Then I just nodded in stern agreement.
To put it bluntly: Jane is terrible, Sarah is amazing and I love her.
Not to mention that Carver had almost certainly figured things out beforehand due to all the dishes in the kitchen and Carlos's shirt on the coffee table.
I forgot about those. It was pretty irresponsible for Carlos to leave a piece of his own clothing out in the open for Carver to identify, considering that clean and tough clothing in the zombie apocalypse is likely scarce. And then there's how he refuses to leave Kenny's safe house immediately until the next morning, which is why he and everyone gets caught.
Come to think of it, the cabin group themselves didn't do much to cover their tracks as a whole, so it's no wonder they were caught so easily.
There's also the fact that she technically has a hand in Luke and Sarah's death regardless of your choices, appropriately enough.
I don't really see how Jane can be held partially responsible for Luke's death, when everyone else were dead set on crossing the frozen lake at the largest portion as opposed to going around it where it is thinner.
Luke's death was pretty much on himself just as much as everyone else.
The only stupid mistake Sarah made was accidentally leaving behind evidence of her existence to tip off her group's whereabouts to Carver wh… moreen she played around with a Polaroid camera, and even then I can't really fault her considering that she was basically left to her own devices with Clementine by her father without being fully informed of what was happening around the cabin and that Carver was coming after them.
Not to mention that Carver had almost certainly figured things out beforehand due to all the dishes in the kitchen and Carlos's shirt on the coffee table.
Besides the 'faking the baby's death' plan in the finale, she also indirectly caused the shootout by choosing to let Arvo walk free to inform them of having been threatened and robbed by Clementine's group, who she was a part of at the time.
There's also the fact that she technically has a hand in Luke and Sarah's death regardless of your choices, appropriately enough.
And then there's how he refuses to leave Kenny's safe house immediately until the next morning, which is why he and everyone gets caught.
Actually, no, Carlos did want to leave. He briefly debates doing so with Alvin, who wants to spend the night so Rebecca can rest, before leaving to find Luke.
I don't really see how Jane can be held partially responsible for Luke's death, when everyone else were dead set on crossing the frozen lake at the largest portion as opposed to going around it where it is thinner.
Luke's death was pretty much on himself just as much as everyone else.
I was mainly referring to the fact that she attacked Arvo, who brought his pissed off friends to get back at her, which spiraled out of control thanks to Clementine/Kenny and Rebecca and got Luke shot in the leg. This handicap is a large part of the reason he falls into the water, though you could potentially argue that Jane could've saved him as well in one version of that scenario, but whatever.
Admittedly, I actually threw his name in right before I posted that.
Not to mention that Carver had almost certainly figured things out beforehand due to all the dishes in the kitchen and Carlos's shirt on the… more coffee table.
I forgot about those. It was pretty irresponsible for Carlos to leave a piece of his own clothing out in the open for Carver to identify, considering that clean and tough clothing in the zombie apocalypse is likely scarce. And then there's how he refuses to leave Kenny's safe house immediately until the next morning, which is why he and everyone gets caught.
Come to think of it, the cabin group themselves didn't do much to cover their tracks as a whole, so it's no wonder they were caught so easily.
There's also the fact that she technically has a hand in Luke and Sarah's death regardless of your choices, appropriately enough.
I don't really see how Jane can be held partially responsible for Luke's death, when everyone else were dead set on crossing the frozen lake a… [view original content]
Actually, no, Carlos did want to leave. He briefly debates doing so with Alvin, who wants to spend the night so Rebecca can rest, before leaving to find Luke.
Really? I must have not remembered this part right. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
And then there's how he refuses to leave Kenny's safe house immediately until the next morning, which is why he and everyone gets caught.
… more
Actually, no, Carlos did want to leave. He briefly debates doing so with Alvin, who wants to spend the night so Rebecca can rest, before leaving to find Luke.
I don't really see how Jane can be held partially responsible for Luke's death, when everyone else were dead set on crossing the frozen lake at the largest portion as opposed to going around it where it is thinner.
Luke's death was pretty much on himself just as much as everyone else.
I was mainly referring to the fact that she attacked Arvo, who brought his pissed off friends to get back at her, which spiraled out of control thanks to Clementine/Kenny and Rebecca and got Luke shot in the leg. This handicap is a large part of the reason he falls into the water, though you could potentially argue that Jane could've saved him as… [view original content]
Jane fucked up more than Sarah ever did. While everyone was so busy complaining about Luke they seemed to have forgotten who also had sex at… more the worst possible time and took a gun and possibly medicine from someone making that person’s group want to attack them. But Jane doesn’t have to suffer from that because she up and leaves.
Okay, no joke, I actually laughed when I saw this because of the wording until I read what the description actually said. Then I just nodded in stern agreement.
To put it bluntly: Jane is terrible, Sarah is amazing and I love her.
Carver had intended to have Reggie executed regardless of Sarah and Clementine's actions, considering the conversation Tavia had with one of Carver's men while Clementine was sneaking around at night.
Sarah 'panicked' because of having witnessing her father being shot and devoured in front of her, whilst Sarita made her own choice to try and rescue Clementine and Sarah, which caused herself to get bit.
Nick made his own choice to go with Luke to rescue Sarah and had perished and turned off-screen, while he was in no condition to do so considering that he was shot beforehand.
Having a panic attack on top of being traumatized over the death of her father hours ago doesn't make her responsible for almost getting Clementine, Jane, and Luke killed when they made their own choice to rescue Sarah and Luke. Anyone in her position would struggle to function properly in a highly stressful environment, especially if their loved ones were brutally killed not long ago in front of their eyes.
Let us be honest..
Sarah's fuckups
* Picture
* Talking during Carver speech
* Getting Reggie Killed
* Panicking and getting Sarita killed
* Getting Nick killed
* Almost getting Luke Jane and Clementine killed
Death was deserved.
Actually, no, Carlos did want to leave. He briefly debates doing so with Alvin, who wants to spend the night so Rebecca can rest, before lea… moreving to find Luke.
Really? I must have not remembered this part right. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
I honestly have to defend Carlos in the case of the bite. A bite like that could have been from a walker. Many of the zombies have destroyed mouths and crooked teeth, which would make their bite mark much more animal-like than a normal human/walker bite.
His worries about Clementine turning were not completely unfounded, especially after what happened to Nick's mother. People are just so quick to call him stupid because Clem is the main character and they knew it was a dog. From Carlos' perspective, it could very well have been a zombie and the girl stumbling from the woods could very well have been lying.
Dude, what the hell? Very few people deserve to die over a few mistakes; by that logic, Carver was an angel and Lee, Kenny, Jane, and Clementine herself should've been killed a long time ago. Not to mention that most of the things Sarah did wrong were either very minor or had extensive circumstances.
Picture
She couldn't have known that Carver would've walked right in minutes afterward. Plus, the picture wasn't really that censuring once you realize that Carver almost certainly had things figured out by the time he saw it: the mountain of dirty dishes and Carlos's shirt on the coffee table was decent enough evidence to assume that the group had been there.
Talking during Carver speech
Which only got herself in trouble with the bad guy, who made sure she got an actually acceptable punishment even if it was probably just for the benefit of his wounded ego.
Getting Reggie Killed
This is the primary example of what I mean when I say extenuating circumstances: Carver himself both was only supposed to be checking on their progress rather than dealing out reward/punishment and later says that Reggie had a string of screw-ups for a while and therefore, needed to go in his mindset. Meanwhile, Reggie was supposed to be making sure they were all working rather than just doing his own work(which Carver should be able to pass off since he describes Reggie as weak not because of his handicap but because of his lack of authority/competence), Sarah is either too hindered by her emotions to focus on her or focuses meticulously under Clementine's supervision(Reggie's job) because she's afraid of messing up again, and Clementine insisted on focusing on one task rather than moderating both, so pretty much everyone involved was at fault here.
Panicking and getting Sarita killed
This is a much more acceptable accusation, but, as I talked about somewhere else as well, but Sarah wasn't neither the cause of the problem nor the only one who freaked out: Carlos himself had been understandably shouting as well and unused/muffled voice clips have everyone else panicking and shouting as a result of Carlos/Sarah dying/running. I can only assume these clips weren't very audible to help set up tension for the Trailer park scene in the next episode...except this is later reinforced when Rebecca argues with Jane about the fact that everyone freaked out--Oops!
Getting Nick killed
I really don't mean to sound like I'm shifting blame here, but Nick apparently run out to get help on his own, ignoring his own injuries (received from Taavia) in favor of prioritizing Luke and Sarah's.
Almost getting Luke Jane and Clementine killed
And this is where people fall into black and white morality with this situation when it's really more gray and grey: Jane(gray) was eager to have Sarah killed for the sake of getting Clementine out of there, while Sarah(grey) was both causing the problem by forgetting the fact that Clementine and Luke care about her while also not doing anything to force them to stay behind and risk their lives. Luke and Clementine try to help Sarah because they want to, while Jane and indirectly Sarah herself want to leave Sarah behind out of pragmatism/depression. While who is more wrong depends on the person(Jane for being logically selfish, Sarah for being emotionally selfish), either both Sarah and Jane are the bad guy in this situation or, more definitely, neither are.
Let us be honest..
Sarah's fuckups
* Picture
* Talking during Carver speech
* Getting Reggie Killed
* Panicking and getting Sarita killed
* Getting Nick killed
* Almost getting Luke Jane and Clementine killed
Death was deserved.
The points of @Kennyshouladiedins1 are highly biased and debatable, and I fully support all of your arguments—but I would like to clarify that Sarah would have been indirectly responsible if Jane died saving her, since the former would've played a role in the chain of events; however, like you seem to think, it would be unreasonable to expect her to be able to walk out of an episode of derealization as easily as it sounds. It is semantics more than anything, though.
However, your claim in a comment above that Jane is more of a liability than Sarah is just as biased and debatable, if not more.
Highly biased and debatable.
Carver had intended to have Reggie executed regardless of Sarah and Clementine's actions, considering the co… morenversation Tavia had with one of Carver's men while Clementine was sneaking around at night.
Sarah 'panicked' because of having witnessing her father being shot and devoured in front of her, whilst Sarita made her own choice to try and rescue Clementine and Sarah, which caused herself to get bit.
Nick made his own choice to go with Luke to rescue Sarah and had perished and turned off-screen, while he was in no condition to do so considering that he was shot beforehand.
Having a panic attack on top of being traumatized over the death of her father hours ago doesn't make her responsible for almost getting Clementine, Jane, and Luke killed when they made their own choice to rescue Sarah and Luke. Anyone in her position would struggle to function properly in a highly stressful environment, especially… [view original content]
I honestly have to defend Carlos in the case of the bite. A bite like that could have been from a walker. Many of the zombies have destroyed… more mouths and crooked teeth, which would make their bite mark much more animal-like than a normal human/walker bite.
His worries about Clementine turning were not completely unfounded, especially after what happened to Nick's mother. People are just so quick to call him stupid because Clem is the main character and they knew it was a dog. From Carlos' perspective, it could very well have been a zombie and the girl stumbling from the woods could very well have been lying.
You have a point regarding about the first paragraph of your post and I can agree with it, but I must respectfully disagree with your second paragraph in terms of bias.
The reason why I perceive Jane to be more of a liability is more to do with her portrayal in Episode 4 and 5, and how the narrative is trying to convince me that Jane is a hardened survivor with some good advice to share, while trying to have the audience understand how her idea of pragmatism is sometimes the right thing to do. But unfortunately for me, Jane's more controversial actions veers into a direction that not only goes against Jane's initial behavior and comments that tends to make her look hypocritical, it also makes her look incredibly idiotic for someone who's meant to be a capable and educated survivor.
I can understand that even Jane can make mistakes and is not always going to come up with the best of plans, but her actions in the finale was outright suicidal and illogical, to the point where her actions guarantees at least one death (either Kenny or herself), because she had willingly came up with the plan without thinking of the major consequences that would transpire afterwards, in the hopes that Clementine would come to agree with her point of view during the chaos. It doesn't help that she does not mention this plan to Clementine at all or immediately tell Kenny that she had lied and was just testing him during their fight to the death.
It doesn't help that Jane's point can be forever lost if Kenny ends up killing her before she gets the chance to explain why she hid AJ from them and pretended that he had died in her care, which would mean that her own plan had caused her own downfall within minutes due to not even thinking about how Clementine could chose to not save a random woman she had just met days ago over a friend she had known for much longer than her a couple of years ago. And if by some chance Clementine does kill Kenny for her survival, who's to say that Clementine would argue that Jane had manipulated her to get Kenny killed by faking the baby's death?
I understand that Jane had done more for the group than Sarah had in the second half of Season 2, but I find that Jane's actions ironically caused more chaos and deaths due to her actions in turn.
The points of @Kennyshouladiedins1 are highly biased and debatable, and I fully support all of your arguments—but I would like to clarify th… moreat Sarah would have been indirectly responsible if Jane died saving her, since the former would've played a role in the chain of events; however, like you seem to think, it would be unreasonable to expect her to be able to walk out of an episode of derealization as easily as it sounds. It is semantics more than anything, though.
However, your claim in a comment above that Jane is more of a liability than Sarah is just as biased and debatable, if not more.
Great points! A lot of this sounds like material for my upcoming critique on her.
To balance things out with the thesis in question, Jane's calculated actions in the name of pragmatism and eventual selfishness ended up causing a lot more pain and loss than Sarah's on the spot actions did. The fact that Jane suggested some terrible things about Sarah that ended up being wrong but also ironic only makes these feelings towards her more potent.
You have a point regarding about the first paragraph of your post and I can agree with it, but I must respectfully disagree with your second… more paragraph in terms of bias.
The reason why I perceive Jane to be more of a liability is more to do with her portrayal in Episode 4 and 5, and how the narrative is trying to convince me that Jane is a hardened survivor with some good advice to share, while trying to have the audience understand how her idea of pragmatism is sometimes the right thing to do. But unfortunately for me, Jane's more controversial actions veers into a direction that not only goes against Jane's initial behavior and comments that tends to make her look hypocritical, it also makes her look incredibly idiotic for someone who's meant to be a capable and educated survivor.
I can understand that even Jane can make mistakes and is not always going to come up with the best of plans, but her actions in the finale was outright suici… [view original content]
I wasn't with high hopes, but recently I decided to try other TTG games and they did great on Tales from the Borderlands and are doing good on Batman, for example, both after Season 2, so I like to think they learned from their mistakes
Comments
Not to mention that Carver had almost certainly figured things out beforehand due to all the dishes in the kitchen and Carlos's shirt on the coffee table.
There's also the fact that she technically has a hand in Luke and Sarah's death regardless of your choices, appropriately enough.
Whoever said this is a legend.
I forgot about those. It was pretty irresponsible for Carlos to leave a piece of his own clothing out in the open for Carver to identify, considering that clean and tough clothing in the zombie apocalypse is likely scarce. And then there's how he refuses to leave Kenny's safe house immediately until the next morning, which is why he and everyone gets caught.
Come to think of it, the cabin group themselves didn't do much to cover their tracks as a whole, so it's no wonder they were caught so easily.
I don't really see how Jane can be held partially responsible for Luke's death, when everyone else were dead set on crossing the frozen lake at the largest portion as opposed to going around it where it is thinner.
Luke's death was pretty much on himself just as much as everyone else.
Actually, no, Carlos did want to leave. He briefly debates doing so with Alvin, who wants to spend the night so Rebecca can rest, before leaving to find Luke.
I was mainly referring to the fact that she attacked Arvo, who brought his pissed off friends to get back at her, which spiraled out of control thanks to Clementine/Kenny and Rebecca and got Luke shot in the leg. This handicap is a large part of the reason he falls into the water, though you could potentially argue that Jane could've saved him as well in one version of that scenario, but whatever.
Admittedly, I actually threw his name in right before I posted that.
Really? I must have not remembered this part right. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
"There's a small house."
"How big is it?"
I found this and thought it was hilarious, so I decided to post it.
Here's the source.
Let us be honest..
Sarah's fuckups
Death was deserved.
Highly biased and debatable.
Carver had intended to have Reggie executed regardless of Sarah and Clementine's actions, considering the conversation Tavia had with one of Carver's men while Clementine was sneaking around at night.
Sarah 'panicked' because of having witnessing her father being shot and devoured in front of her, whilst Sarita made her own choice to try and rescue Clementine and Sarah, which caused herself to get bit.
Nick made his own choice to go with Luke to rescue Sarah and had perished and turned off-screen, while he was in no condition to do so considering that he was shot beforehand.
Having a panic attack on top of being traumatized over the death of her father hours ago doesn't make her responsible for almost getting Clementine, Jane, and Luke killed when they made their own choice to rescue Sarah and Luke. Anyone in her position would struggle to function properly in a highly stressful environment, especially if their loved ones were brutally killed not long ago in front of their eyes.
Her death was far from deserving.
No problem. I really like rewatching the second episode and recall noting that recently.
I honestly have to defend Carlos in the case of the bite. A bite like that could have been from a walker. Many of the zombies have destroyed mouths and crooked teeth, which would make their bite mark much more animal-like than a normal human/walker bite.
His worries about Clementine turning were not completely unfounded, especially after what happened to Nick's mother. People are just so quick to call him stupid because Clem is the main character and they knew it was a dog. From Carlos' perspective, it could very well have been a zombie and the girl stumbling from the woods could very well have been lying.
Dude, what the hell? Very few people deserve to die over a few mistakes; by that logic, Carver was an angel and Lee, Kenny, Jane, and Clementine herself should've been killed a long time ago. Not to mention that most of the things Sarah did wrong were either very minor or had extensive circumstances.
She couldn't have known that Carver would've walked right in minutes afterward. Plus, the picture wasn't really that censuring once you realize that Carver almost certainly had things figured out by the time he saw it: the mountain of dirty dishes and Carlos's shirt on the coffee table was decent enough evidence to assume that the group had been there.
Which only got herself in trouble with the bad guy, who made sure she got an actually acceptable punishment even if it was probably just for the benefit of his wounded ego.
This is the primary example of what I mean when I say extenuating circumstances: Carver himself both was only supposed to be checking on their progress rather than dealing out reward/punishment and later says that Reggie had a string of screw-ups for a while and therefore, needed to go in his mindset. Meanwhile, Reggie was supposed to be making sure they were all working rather than just doing his own work(which Carver should be able to pass off since he describes Reggie as weak not because of his handicap but because of his lack of authority/competence), Sarah is either too hindered by her emotions to focus on her or focuses meticulously under Clementine's supervision(Reggie's job) because she's afraid of messing up again, and Clementine insisted on focusing on one task rather than moderating both, so pretty much everyone involved was at fault here.
This is a much more acceptable accusation, but, as I talked about somewhere else as well, but Sarah wasn't neither the cause of the problem nor the only one who freaked out: Carlos himself had been understandably shouting as well and unused/muffled voice clips have everyone else panicking and shouting as a result of Carlos/Sarah dying/running. I can only assume these clips weren't very audible to help set up tension for the Trailer park scene in the next episode...except this is later reinforced when Rebecca argues with Jane about the fact that everyone freaked out--Oops!
I really don't mean to sound like I'm shifting blame here, but Nick apparently run out to get help on his own, ignoring his own injuries (received from Taavia) in favor of prioritizing Luke and Sarah's.
And this is where people fall into black and white morality with this situation when it's really more gray and grey: Jane(gray) was eager to have Sarah killed for the sake of getting Clementine out of there, while Sarah(grey) was both causing the problem by forgetting the fact that Clementine and Luke care about her while also not doing anything to force them to stay behind and risk their lives. Luke and Clementine try to help Sarah because they want to, while Jane and indirectly Sarah herself want to leave Sarah behind out of pragmatism/depression. While who is more wrong depends on the person(Jane for being logically selfish, Sarah for being emotionally selfish), either both Sarah and Jane are the bad guy in this situation or, more definitely, neither are.
Not a meme but Chappelle up in this skit. The best shit I'm watching right now.
He is still a friggen genius lol
The points of @Kennyshouladiedins1 are highly biased and debatable, and I fully support all of your arguments—but I would like to clarify that Sarah would have been indirectly responsible if Jane died saving her, since the former would've played a role in the chain of events; however, like you seem to think, it would be unreasonable to expect her to be able to walk out of an episode of derealization as easily as it sounds. It is semantics more than anything, though.
However, your claim in a comment above that Jane is more of a liability than Sarah is just as biased and debatable, if not more.
He just slipped his dick down his throat.
Agreed. Not to mention Sam thrashing around quite a bit could've made the mark harder to identify at a glance.
The fuck does this even mean?
You have a point regarding about the first paragraph of your post and I can agree with it, but I must respectfully disagree with your second paragraph in terms of bias.
The reason why I perceive Jane to be more of a liability is more to do with her portrayal in Episode 4 and 5, and how the narrative is trying to convince me that Jane is a hardened survivor with some good advice to share, while trying to have the audience understand how her idea of pragmatism is sometimes the right thing to do. But unfortunately for me, Jane's more controversial actions veers into a direction that not only goes against Jane's initial behavior and comments that tends to make her look hypocritical, it also makes her look incredibly idiotic for someone who's meant to be a capable and educated survivor.
I can understand that even Jane can make mistakes and is not always going to come up with the best of plans, but her actions in the finale was outright suicidal and illogical, to the point where her actions guarantees at least one death (either Kenny or herself), because she had willingly came up with the plan without thinking of the major consequences that would transpire afterwards, in the hopes that Clementine would come to agree with her point of view during the chaos. It doesn't help that she does not mention this plan to Clementine at all or immediately tell Kenny that she had lied and was just testing him during their fight to the death.
It doesn't help that Jane's point can be forever lost if Kenny ends up killing her before she gets the chance to explain why she hid AJ from them and pretended that he had died in her care, which would mean that her own plan had caused her own downfall within minutes due to not even thinking about how Clementine could chose to not save a random woman she had just met days ago over a friend she had known for much longer than her a couple of years ago. And if by some chance Clementine does kill Kenny for her survival, who's to say that Clementine would argue that Jane had manipulated her to get Kenny killed by faking the baby's death?
I understand that Jane had done more for the group than Sarah had in the second half of Season 2, but I find that Jane's actions ironically caused more chaos and deaths due to her actions in turn.
Great points! A lot of this sounds like material for my upcoming critique on her.
To balance things out with the thesis in question, Jane's calculated actions in the name of pragmatism and eventual selfishness ended up causing a lot more pain and loss than Sarah's on the spot actions did. The fact that Jane suggested some terrible things about Sarah that ended up being wrong but also ironic only makes these feelings towards her more potent.
Found this here.
I guess? Just don't get the art history connection.
Didn't Luke say he had an art history degree?
Edit: At around 25 minutes into this video.
Yeah I know. I just didn't get the joke.
No more drugs for that man.
Reminder that season 1 had a literal feels train.
...or the hype train.
I can't be the only one who has high hopes for A New Frontier.
Jane's eyes just Lmfao
Ah, okey. Maybe it's just a random reference.
And he thanked him for that
"Thanks a lot, Negan."
I want to believe they learned from their mistakes in S2
Dammit, Jane! Stop blinking when the camera flashes!
I wasn't with high hopes, but recently I decided to try other TTG games and they did great on Tales from the Borderlands and are doing good on Batman, for example, both after Season 2, so I like to think they learned from their mistakes
TEAMKENNY
