Lilly will probably sacrifice herself for Clem's new group and shoot walkers until she dies, if this season is about family, I think Lilly will risk her life to protect a girl who is the only "family" of her old group.
Because if Lilly comes back they'll likely just kill her off eventually anyway, not to mention the amount of plot breaking they'll have to d… moreo for her to just run into clementine again. Just like Kenny.
Clementine is who we play as? I dont quite get what you mean there, thats why shes still around and the game pretty much follows her as the main character.
I have the same view of other major characters, I'd rather imagine they are alive rather than bring them back to die. I'd prefer to have a christa than an omid happen
Omg, that would be a good "scumbag" Clementine moment to say at Lilly, which would be funny and not a good choice of words to say to a woman who killed Carley for threatening her.
But you don't actually know that, you are completely making assumptions with no basis. It doesn't have to break the plot - the reason Kenny's reappearance broke the plot was that it was never explained how he survived in Season One, other than that, we are told that Sarita found him in Savannah and they've been together ever since and they eventually made their way to the Ski Lodge in search of Wellington, the only plot breaking stuff is how coincidental it was that they were just planning to leave as Clementine and co. got there and things don't have to be the same for Lilly's possible return.
Except in Season Three it becomes Javier's story, Clementine's is more a secondary plot point but your reply towards Clementine is rather hypocritical, your only reasoning for it being that she's playable. Well, I hope AJ doesn't 'distract' from the new group in Season 3.
Well, different preferences, at the end of the day it's up the script-writer to decide and personally, I prefer at least ambiguous closure over unanswered questions.
Because if Lilly comes back they'll likely just kill her off eventually anyway, not to mention the amount of plot breaking they'll have to d… moreo for her to just run into clementine again. Just like Kenny.
Clementine is who we play as? I dont quite get what you mean there, thats why shes still around and the game pretty much follows her as the main character.
I have the same view of other major characters, I'd rather imagine they are alive rather than bring them back to die. I'd prefer to have a christa than an omid happen
True, also the location where the characters are right now is in Maryland near Virginia, where huge events are taking place during the comic books.
Is it possible to see Lilly being part of the Saviors?
We won't exactly see Negan, but it would be awesome to fight groups of his people since they are everywhere and made outposts around Virginia.
Although I could be wrong, but didn't they say last summer that the game is tying together a bit with the comic book series? Or maybe Lilly is part of a group identical to the Saviors? I remember there is a branded walker in the S3 trailer, and Javier has a brand on his neck, that could mean a big group of people that are probably like the Wolves, the guys that carve walkers with W's in the comics and show.
But you don't actually know that, you are completely making assumptions with no basis. It doesn't have to break the plot - the reason Kenny'… mores reappearance broke the plot was that it was never explained how he survived in Season One, other than that, we are told that Sarita found him in Savannah and they've been together ever since and they eventually made their way to the Ski Lodge in search of Wellington, the only plot breaking stuff is how coincidental it was that they were just planning to leave as Clementine and co. got there and things don't have to be the same for Lilly's possible return.
Except in Season Three it becomes Javier's story, Clementine's is more a secondary plot point but your reply towards Clementine is rather hypocritical, your only reasoning for it being that she's playable. Well, I hope AJ doesn't 'distract' from the new group in Season 3.
Well, different preferences, at the end of the day it's up the script-write… [view original content]
But you don't actually know that, you are completely making assumptions with no basis. It doesn't have to break the plot - the reason Kenny'… mores reappearance broke the plot was that it was never explained how he survived in Season One, other than that, we are told that Sarita found him in Savannah and they've been together ever since and they eventually made their way to the Ski Lodge in search of Wellington, the only plot breaking stuff is how coincidental it was that they were just planning to leave as Clementine and co. got there and things don't have to be the same for Lilly's possible return.
Except in Season Three it becomes Javier's story, Clementine's is more a secondary plot point but your reply towards Clementine is rather hypocritical, your only reasoning for it being that she's playable. Well, I hope AJ doesn't 'distract' from the new group in Season 3.
Well, different preferences, at the end of the day it's up the script-write… [view original content]
Omg, that would be a good "scumbag" Clementine moment to say at Lilly, which would be funny and not a good choice of words to say to a woman who killed Carley for threatening her.
People are speculating that the new community is Capricorn Farms and yes, the third season will be 'merging' in a sense with the events of the comics and I believe it was confirmed that we will be seeing familiar faces. As for Lilly, it's possible she could be with The Saviors, people can change over the course of 4 years after all.
True, also the location where the characters are right now is in Maryland near Virginia, where huge events are taking place during the comic… more books.
Is it possible to see Lilly being part of the Saviors?
We won't exactly see Negan, but it would be awesome to fight groups of his people since they are everywhere and made outposts around Virginia.
Although I could be wrong, but didn't they say last summer that the game is tying together a bit with the comic book series? Or maybe Lilly is part of a group identical to the Saviors? I remember there is a branded walker in the S3 trailer, and Javier has a brand on his neck, that could mean a big group of people that are probably like the Wolves, the guys that carve walkers with W's in the comics and show.
What I find funny, is how this TT Series has shown more guts than AMC at times. The Doug/Carly moment, is a perfect example. They didn't tease the death until it was about to go down. Then bang the whole direction of things has changed. AMC MILKED Glenn far too long before casting Negan. In my view,that Carly Death was done way better. No dumpster to save her only to die later BS. Just quick and brutal and Very ZA. Just one man's thoughts though, too each their own.
It would be a surprise that not only Kenny or Clementine matter in season 1, but others like Christa or Lilly, and we'd have to start again to change their behavior, to see what'd happen if Lilly wouldn't forget that Lee tried to save Larry or telling her you'd drive off with Clem and her in the RV, (this choice was actually shown at the end of episode 5 when it showed all the characters you made choices with.)
The surprises they were most likely talking about is the comic characters appearing, not returning characters like Lilly or Molly. The comic book characters appearing is something i really don't want to happen to be honest. I have always preferred completely original characters in Telltales games. I just hope they don't ruin it by involving the comic book characters too much
I thought Telltale games twittered months ago that we were going to be expecting some "surprises" for S3, I mean, the ONLY people we didn't … moresee die are Molly, Lilly, and Christa (she wasn't at Wellington).
Well theres also Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo (kinda hope they don't return, especially Arvo, the other two ran from the group because of Kenny).
Seriously? One of the most traumatic events Clem experiences is the death of Carley. Did you not talk to Clem? I would be okay with considering that Clem was scared of Lilly if she saw her but not that she would somehow be neutral or favorable. Not a chance.
Why would Clementine hate her?
She wasn't close to Doug, maybe a bit to Carley but not that much to make her hate Lily the same way a Lee who wanted to romance Carley.
That seems a little obtuse of you. There's not contract that says they have to account for every character. They do if they want them finished off, such as an honorable character.
The reality is, based on your choices, there could be a zombie Lee and/or Duck walking around, but we've never seen that (a la a zombie Brie appearance or Carly corpse).
I'm not about adding more pressure to a game company to "close any open doors" unless it works for the story. If it doesn't work then I don't want to see it forced in.
The truth is the Kenny seen was very moving and played so well into the morality and emotion of the game. That's what a game company needs to focus on, us, not the dead character.
Well, seems pretty unfair that they can resurrect Kenny whenever they want so he can be an important character in Season 2 but they can't at least show us the dead corpse of Lily if they didn't want her in the game anymore.
That seems a little obtuse of you. There's not contract that says they have to account for every character. They do if they want them fini… moreshed off, such as an honorable character.
The reality is, based on your choices, there could be a zombie Lee and/or Duck walking around, but we've never seen that (a la a zombie Brie appearance or Carly corpse).
I'm not about adding more pressure to a game company to "close any open doors" unless it works for the story. If it doesn't work then I don't want to see it forced in.
The truth is the Kenny seen was very moving and played so well into the morality and emotion of the game. That's what a game company needs to focus on, us, not the dead character.
I think the Kenny return has kinda stirred people's juices on this one and honestly I don't see the value of a Lily return. Few of us would be willing to jump on the insanity of the Lily train to boot.
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation. That makes that timer countdown on a decision important. Just like real life, you're processing a situation and you can't wait forever. Even silence is a viable option in some of those encounters and that's important to the idea that we're not playing, we're engulfed in the story.
Sure, I want my choices to matter, but not at the cost of the story. We're not going to go running into Lily's arms. We may want to run away from Lily and that doesn't help the story. I made a choice to back Carly who "remembered that", but 2 seconds later she wasn't remembering anything. It did effect the banter in that 1 conversation and I'm happy about that.
The other thing is that we can't just cater to the 5 people that like Lily and the 100 people who don't. The story has to be done in a way that all 105 people can be engaged in the story and I don't think that could be done with Lily. Sure, if you want to easter egg her corpse or something, fine, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if that doesn't happen.
I really think that the beginning will be Kenny got killed or Jane did her typical run away and your choices from Season 2 gets rubbed in your face a little bit, but bringing back choices from Season 1 that Lee made doesn't make any sense and will just serve to drag the story down.
Of all the points that were made that is the least important one. I also disagree that he was brought back arbitrarily. I think that was the plan all along.
Both of Kenny's "Deaths".
1.) Kenny pushes Lee away and you see him fighting off the dead and you hear him shoot Ben. Omid, Christa, and Lee say they didn't effectively see it and question his survival.
2.) Kenny jumps down to help Christa and disappears fighting. Lee can allude to the idea that Kenny could fight his way out or maybe that he survived.
and
At the end says, "he was lost to the herd trying to save Ben." All the rest say, "that person died", etc. making it clear they were gone, while Kenny is deliberately left ambiguous.
There was a clear plan to bring Kenny back and because it would be an awesome reveal.
Seriously? One of the most traumatic events Clem experiences is the death of Carley. Did you not talk to Clem? I would be okay with consi… moredering that Clem was scared of Lilly if she saw her but not that she would somehow be neutral or favorable. Not a chance.
In Lilly's case (and I asume that by 'repeating the scenario' you're talking about Lilly's possible return), the last time we see her she's with a working RV or on foot in a road with just one walker nearby.
In Kenny's case, the last time we see him he's trapped in an alley soon to be swarmed by walkers with no apparent way out and with Ben's blood attracting the zombies.
I think it's pretty clear to see that surviving the former isn't unrealistic at all while surviving the latter... eh, let's just say he hid under the dumpster.
I'd like to ask a question to you and to the people who think that Lilly's (or any other character's) return would break realism and immersion in the game. If Lilly had appeared in the Michonne Miniseries, would you have also considered it unrealistic? And if A New Frontier didn't include Clementine at all and Lilly met Javier in some point in time would it still be unrealistic?
I knew it, because by siding with Lilly she didn't care if Lee killed before the dead time. So she would also forgive Kenny for what he did back at the dairy, even if it was her dad. I should've said that instead.
she would say to Lee if you tell her his past she WILL forgive him in episode 3, but not Kenny
Um? Nope. Turns out she was willing to forgive Kenny as well...
Not speaking for BTS here, but I think he may also be referring to how Kenny became a Plot Tumor. I don't see the same thing happening with Lilly in Season 3 or 2, but that's just me.
Those are entirely different situations, Sleep!
In Lilly's case (and I asume that by 'repeating the scenario' you're talking about Lilly'… mores possible return), the last time we see her she's with a working RV or on foot in a road with just one walker nearby.
In Kenny's case, the last time we see him he's trapped in an alley soon to be swarmed by walkers with no apparent way out and with Ben's blood attracting the zombies.
I think it's pretty clear to see that surviving the former isn't unrealistic at all while surviving the latter... eh, let's just say he hid under the dumpster.
I'd like to ask a question to you and to the people who think that Lilly's (or any other character's) return would break realism and immersion in the game. If Lilly had appeared in the Michonne Miniseries, would you have also considered it unrealistic? And if A New Frontier didn't include Clementine at all and Lilly met Javier in some point in time would it still be unrealistic?
It's kinda a little bit of both. Her point was to convince Lilly that she's going about things the wrong way, but she ended up hitting Lilly in a low place while doing so.
I knew it, because by siding with Lilly she didn't care if Lee killed before the dead time. So she would also forgive Kenny for what he did back at the dairy, even if it was her dad. I should've said that instead.
According to Clem herself. As I referenced. You can speak with her after the event. The first impression should be on the RV itself when she talks about it in the most traumatizing way I've ever seen. Then when you get to the train Clementine discusses it on several occasions and it's so bad that even Kattja brings it up in discussion with Lee, even alluding to the point that she may not recover or that she'll bounce back based on your reaction. For the rest of that episode everything she is around is negative or referencing a bad day, to which Clementine replies, "the worst."
I don't know about you, but to anyone who took the time to talk to Clem over and over throughout that episode it would be crystal clear that something has really set in with Clem.
I was looking for a video, but you'll just have to play it or watch a video where they talk to Clem.
I think the Kenny return has kinda stirred people's juices on this one and honestly I don't see the value of a Lily return. Few of us would… more be willing to jump on the insanity of the Lily train to boot.
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation. That makes that timer countdown on a decision important. Just like real life, you're processing a situation and you can't wait forever. Even silence is a viable option in some of those encounters and that's important to the idea that we're not playing, we're engulfed in the story.
Sure, I want my choices to matter, but not at the cost of the story. We're not going to go running into Lily's arms. We may want to run away from Lily and that doesn't help the story. I made a choice to back Carly who "rememb… [view original content]
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation.
But ask yourself, did that work with the players who already though Kenny as a madman? Did that even work with the average player? Besides some Kenny extremists, I don't think many people ever though of Kenny as the person who has his head in the right place. Everyone can see how messed up, volatile, crazy, violent and easily agered he is, even the majority of his unbiased fans, so I don't think the purpose of his character in Season two was to challenge the player's trust on his mental reliability.
Kenny had his own very specific plot in Season 2: a road down to madness. In the end, you're faced with a choice; killing your old friend or doing what needs to be done. Unfortunately, you're only able to seemingly pull Kenny of that road after he's done a despicable crime that is unecessary, unreasonable and motivationless murder.
Now let me ask you, would Telltale ever be able to achieve such scenario with another character that's not Kenny? No, they couldn't. Same goes for Lilly, but with her own different plot (obviously). Only a character such as her who has inflicted such trauma in Clem can undergo certain possible Season 3 plot points. It doesn't need to be something as big as Kenny's plot in Season 2 (the whole Season resolved around him afterall), but it can be something interesting nevertheless.
But why is Lilly such an interesting character to bring back? Why not Molly or Christa? The answer is simple, we as the players will be uncertain on where Lilly's morality and thoughts lie. Instead of bringing back an old friend which is unoriginal and done coutless times in the The Walking Dead universe, they could bring back a character who could potentially be anything. And why is that so special? Because this is a choice based game. Depending on our choices, on how we treat Lilly when we first meet her we could make her go through many different paths. We treat her with disrespect and hatred when we first meet her? She goes down the path of becoming an antagonist. We treat her with indifference? She goes down a path of redemption to try to regain our friendship. We treat her well and show no resent about the Carley/Doug situation, we gain a new ally. There are endless options, these are the most 'basic' ones, but I'm sure Telltale could think of something more interesting. Anyways, I think you catch what I'm saying, depending on our Clementine, Lilly's morality, motivations and relationship toward us would vary, and that is arguably more interesting that just having a character come back just to have their linear plot.
We're not going to go running into Lily's arms.
That's a given, and that's exactly what makes future interactions with her more interesting. How would Clem react to her character? What would Lilly do after meeting Clem? Does she accept that what she did was a mistake? Or would she try to justify herself and act on the offensive on whatever acusations Clem could throw at her? Would us (Clem) showing resent and unforgiveness to what she did change her, morally speaking, and possibly take her down a path of evilness? It's something unpredictable that could go so many ways that's be a shame to go unexplored, in my honest opinion.
Rest asured, though. It's very likely Lilly isn't coming back.
I think the Kenny return has kinda stirred people's juices on this one and honestly I don't see the value of a Lily return. Few of us would… more be willing to jump on the insanity of the Lily train to boot.
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation. That makes that timer countdown on a decision important. Just like real life, you're processing a situation and you can't wait forever. Even silence is a viable option in some of those encounters and that's important to the idea that we're not playing, we're engulfed in the story.
Sure, I want my choices to matter, but not at the cost of the story. We're not going to go running into Lily's arms. We may want to run away from Lily and that doesn't help the story. I made a choice to back Carly who "rememb… [view original content]
But how or why? I truly do prefer ambiguous closure - knowing at least the status of a character, over unanswered questions - questions the story brings up but never chooses to answer, which personally agitates me. It is a personal opinion I've had for a long time. Apologies if my comments make me sound angry but emotional interpretation of comments is more often than not, dependent on the reader.
I keep wondering how the reunion of Lilly is going to turn out, good/bad depending on if Lilly still has a good side towards Clementine, Kenny for example in season 2 was the same, he was still the same old Kenny, but hasn't been able to control his anger in the series unless Clem calms him,
Carver beats Kenny but doesn't kill him, only to break his spirit, he says in episode 4 "Why couldn't Carver just kill me?".
Now Lilly is a different story, she lost pretty much everything, her mother before/during the apocalypse, her dad, and she suffered paranoia thinking someone is stealing from the group, and committed murder for thinking Ben or Carley were the culprits. Basically Lilly's status right now is compared to Kenny after he lost his family.
If Lilly returns it will be different because with Kenny, it was a happy reunion for Clementine, but with Lilly it'll be good/bad reunion for her, I think Lilly will probably be happy because Clem never done anything to her during S1, only Lee and Kenny were horrible to her (Unless she remembers Lee was good to her and tried saving Larry and wanted to go in the RV with her).
Molly probably won't come back, unless she's needed in the story to teach Clem more skill's of survival or if there is a big gang of Saviors on the way.
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his… more head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation.
But ask yourself, did that work with the players who already though Kenny as a madman? Did that even work with the average player? Besides some Kenny extremists, I don't think many people ever though of Kenny as the person who has his head in the right place. Everyone can see how messed up, volatile, crazy, violent and easily agered he is, even the majority of his unbiased fans, so I don't think the purpose of his character in Season two was to challenge the player's trust on his mental reliability.
Kenny had his own very specific plot in Season 2: a road down to madness. In the end, you're faced with a choice; killing your old friend or doing what needs to be done. Unfortunately, you're only able to s… [view original content]
I don't think it's just witnessing Carley/Doug's death that affected her. Think of all the things she had to witness before that. Lee bashing Sandra's head in, being grabbed twice by a walker at the drugstore, seeing a legless Mark and the whole meat locker experience, being shot at by bandits. I would say all that took it's toll before hand
According to Clem herself. As I referenced. You can speak with her after the event. The first impression should be on the RV itself when … moreshe talks about it in the most traumatizing way I've ever seen. Then when you get to the train Clementine discusses it on several occasions and it's so bad that even Kattja brings it up in discussion with Lee, even alluding to the point that she may not recover or that she'll bounce back based on your reaction. For the rest of that episode everything she is around is negative or referencing a bad day, to which Clementine replies, "the worst."
I don't know about you, but to anyone who took the time to talk to Clem over and over throughout that episode it would be crystal clear that something has really set in with Clem.
I was looking for a video, but you'll just have to play it or watch a video where they talk to Clem.
I would choose to argue a lot of your points except that I think there are 2 important points. 1.) This game is made so that everyone experiences it differently and that's the beauty of it and 2.) you actually agree with me that Lilly isn't coming back and those are all that really matters.
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his… more head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation.
But ask yourself, did that work with the players who already though Kenny as a madman? Did that even work with the average player? Besides some Kenny extremists, I don't think many people ever though of Kenny as the person who has his head in the right place. Everyone can see how messed up, volatile, crazy, violent and easily agered he is, even the majority of his unbiased fans, so I don't think the purpose of his character in Season two was to challenge the player's trust on his mental reliability.
Kenny had his own very specific plot in Season 2: a road down to madness. In the end, you're faced with a choice; killing your old friend or doing what needs to be done. Unfortunately, you're only able to s… [view original content]
If I say yes and you say no that's not really a discussion. That's like 2 kids in a playground. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that you're putting your 2 cents in, but it has to be a complete sentence. I can't read your mind on how "it can." I'm open for you to sell it to me too just I don't think can get over the discussion I'm having on it.
You can't get us to like Lilly. That's your problem. End of story. If you're going to bring back a character it's gotta be because we want them back.
What you're saying is, "we're going to bring Jar Jar Binks back in Episode 9 of Star Wars. We think it could be interesting. Is everyone on board?" Then when everyone shakes their head no because he was a character made purposely to be irritating you reply, "actually, it can." How exactly do you plan to overcome that hump?
I don't think it's just witnessing Carley/Doug's death that affected her. Think of all the things she had to witness before that. Lee bashin… moreg Sandra's head in, being grabbed twice by a walker at the drugstore, seeing a legless Mark and the whole meat locker experience, being shot at by bandits. I would say all that took it's toll before hand
Comments
Lilly will probably sacrifice herself for Clem's new group and shoot walkers until she dies, if this season is about family, I think Lilly will risk her life to protect a girl who is the only "family" of her old group.
Omg, that would be a good "scumbag" Clementine moment to say at Lilly, which would be funny and not a good choice of words to say to a woman who killed Carley for threatening her.
But you don't actually know that, you are completely making assumptions with no basis. It doesn't have to break the plot - the reason Kenny's reappearance broke the plot was that it was never explained how he survived in Season One, other than that, we are told that Sarita found him in Savannah and they've been together ever since and they eventually made their way to the Ski Lodge in search of Wellington, the only plot breaking stuff is how coincidental it was that they were just planning to leave as Clementine and co. got there and things don't have to be the same for Lilly's possible return.
Except in Season Three it becomes Javier's story, Clementine's is more a secondary plot point but your reply towards Clementine is rather hypocritical, your only reasoning for it being that she's playable. Well, I hope AJ doesn't 'distract' from the new group in Season 3.
Well, different preferences, at the end of the day it's up the script-writer to decide and personally, I prefer at least ambiguous closure over unanswered questions.
True, also the location where the characters are right now is in Maryland near Virginia, where huge events are taking place during the comic books.
Is it possible to see Lilly being part of the Saviors?
We won't exactly see Negan, but it would be awesome to fight groups of his people since they are everywhere and made outposts around Virginia.
Although I could be wrong, but didn't they say last summer that the game is tying together a bit with the comic book series? Or maybe Lilly is part of a group identical to the Saviors? I remember there is a branded walker in the S3 trailer, and Javier has a brand on his neck, that could mean a big group of people that are probably like the Wolves, the guys that carve walkers with W's in the comics and show.
Man people are passive aggressive on here for no reason
Carley wasn't threatening her, though. She was chastising Lilly for being overly aggressive about the situation and got a little too bold about it.
Apologies but how am I being passive aggressive?
People are speculating that the new community is Capricorn Farms and yes, the third season will be 'merging' in a sense with the events of the comics and I believe it was confirmed that we will be seeing familiar faces. As for Lilly, it's possible she could be with The Saviors, people can change over the course of 4 years after all.
What I find funny, is how this TT Series has shown more guts than AMC at times. The Doug/Carly moment, is a perfect example. They didn't tease the death until it was about to go down. Then bang the whole direction of things has changed. AMC MILKED Glenn far too long before casting Negan. In my view,that Carly Death was done way better. No dumpster to save her only to die later BS. Just quick and brutal and Very ZA. Just one man's thoughts though, too each their own.
Ohhhh, I've been playing the season so long I forgot if she was either chastising her or insulting her.
It would be a surprise that not only Kenny or Clementine matter in season 1, but others like Christa or Lilly, and we'd have to start again to change their behavior, to see what'd happen if Lilly wouldn't forget that Lee tried to save Larry or telling her you'd drive off with Clem and her in the RV, (this choice was actually shown at the end of episode 5 when it showed all the characters you made choices with.)
Um? Nope. Turns out she was willing to forgive Kenny as well...
The surprises they were most likely talking about is the comic characters appearing, not returning characters like Lilly or Molly. The comic book characters appearing is something i really don't want to happen to be honest. I have always preferred completely original characters in Telltales games. I just hope they don't ruin it by involving the comic book characters too much
Seriously? One of the most traumatic events Clem experiences is the death of Carley. Did you not talk to Clem? I would be okay with considering that Clem was scared of Lilly if she saw her but not that she would somehow be neutral or favorable. Not a chance.
That seems a little obtuse of you. There's not contract that says they have to account for every character. They do if they want them finished off, such as an honorable character.
The reality is, based on your choices, there could be a zombie Lee and/or Duck walking around, but we've never seen that (a la a zombie Brie appearance or Carly corpse).
I'm not about adding more pressure to a game company to "close any open doors" unless it works for the story. If it doesn't work then I don't want to see it forced in.
The truth is the Kenny seen was very moving and played so well into the morality and emotion of the game. That's what a game company needs to focus on, us, not the dead character.
Dude, there was no way Kenny could have survived in Season 1, they just resurrected him because fans love him.
I think the Kenny return has kinda stirred people's juices on this one and honestly I don't see the value of a Lily return. Few of us would be willing to jump on the insanity of the Lily train to boot.
The point of the Kenny return was that it drove our emotions. Kenny's strength in both episodes was that you want to support him because his head is in the right place, but you're always torn on the moral ambiguity of the situation. That makes that timer countdown on a decision important. Just like real life, you're processing a situation and you can't wait forever. Even silence is a viable option in some of those encounters and that's important to the idea that we're not playing, we're engulfed in the story.
Sure, I want my choices to matter, but not at the cost of the story. We're not going to go running into Lily's arms. We may want to run away from Lily and that doesn't help the story. I made a choice to back Carly who "remembered that", but 2 seconds later she wasn't remembering anything. It did effect the banter in that 1 conversation and I'm happy about that.
The other thing is that we can't just cater to the 5 people that like Lily and the 100 people who don't. The story has to be done in a way that all 105 people can be engaged in the story and I don't think that could be done with Lily. Sure, if you want to easter egg her corpse or something, fine, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if that doesn't happen.
I really think that the beginning will be Kenny got killed or Jane did her typical run away and your choices from Season 2 gets rubbed in your face a little bit, but bringing back choices from Season 1 that Lee made doesn't make any sense and will just serve to drag the story down.
Of all the points that were made that is the least important one. I also disagree that he was brought back arbitrarily. I think that was the plan all along.
Both of Kenny's "Deaths".
1.) Kenny pushes Lee away and you see him fighting off the dead and you hear him shoot Ben. Omid, Christa, and Lee say they didn't effectively see it and question his survival.
2.) Kenny jumps down to help Christa and disappears fighting. Lee can allude to the idea that Kenny could fight his way out or maybe that he survived.
and
At the end says, "he was lost to the herd trying to save Ben." All the rest say, "that person died", etc. making it clear they were gone, while Kenny is deliberately left ambiguous.
There was a clear plan to bring Kenny back and because it would be an awesome reveal.
Case closed.
That sounds slightly passive-agressive-esque.
According to whom, exactly?
How is repeating that disaster going to contribute to the realism?
Those are entirely different situations, Sleep!
In Lilly's case (and I asume that by 'repeating the scenario' you're talking about Lilly's possible return), the last time we see her she's with a working RV or on foot in a road with just one walker nearby.
In Kenny's case, the last time we see him he's trapped in an alley soon to be swarmed by walkers with no apparent way out and with Ben's blood attracting the zombies.
I think it's pretty clear to see that surviving the former isn't unrealistic at all while surviving the latter... eh, let's just say he hid under the dumpster.
I'd like to ask a question to you and to the people who think that Lilly's (or any other character's) return would break realism and immersion in the game. If Lilly had appeared in the Michonne Miniseries, would you have also considered it unrealistic? And if A New Frontier didn't include Clementine at all and Lilly met Javier in some point in time would it still be unrealistic?
I knew it, because by siding with Lilly she didn't care if Lee killed before the dead time. So she would also forgive Kenny for what he did back at the dairy, even if it was her dad. I should've said that instead.
Not speaking for BTS here, but I think he may also be referring to how Kenny became a Plot Tumor. I don't see the same thing happening with Lilly in Season 3 or 2, but that's just me.
It's kinda a little bit of both. Her point was to convince Lilly that she's going about things the wrong way, but she ended up hitting Lilly in a low place while doing so.
Don't watch the TV show, but I knew about Glenn anyway, so point partially taken.
Oh really? I thought you were implying that there was another variation where she says she'd forgive Lee, but not Kenny depending on your choices.
According to Clem herself. As I referenced. You can speak with her after the event. The first impression should be on the RV itself when she talks about it in the most traumatizing way I've ever seen. Then when you get to the train Clementine discusses it on several occasions and it's so bad that even Kattja brings it up in discussion with Lee, even alluding to the point that she may not recover or that she'll bounce back based on your reaction. For the rest of that episode everything she is around is negative or referencing a bad day, to which Clementine replies, "the worst."
I don't know about you, but to anyone who took the time to talk to Clem over and over throughout that episode it would be crystal clear that something has really set in with Clem.
I was looking for a video, but you'll just have to play it or watch a video where they talk to Clem.
Actually, it can.
But ask yourself, did that work with the players who already though Kenny as a madman? Did that even work with the average player? Besides some Kenny extremists, I don't think many people ever though of Kenny as the person who has his head in the right place. Everyone can see how messed up, volatile, crazy, violent and easily agered he is, even the majority of his unbiased fans, so I don't think the purpose of his character in Season two was to challenge the player's trust on his mental reliability.
Kenny had his own very specific plot in Season 2: a road down to madness. In the end, you're faced with a choice; killing your old friend or doing what needs to be done. Unfortunately, you're only able to seemingly pull Kenny of that road after he's done a despicable crime that is unecessary, unreasonable and motivationless murder.
Now let me ask you, would Telltale ever be able to achieve such scenario with another character that's not Kenny? No, they couldn't. Same goes for Lilly, but with her own different plot (obviously). Only a character such as her who has inflicted such trauma in Clem can undergo certain possible Season 3 plot points. It doesn't need to be something as big as Kenny's plot in Season 2 (the whole Season resolved around him afterall), but it can be something interesting nevertheless.
But why is Lilly such an interesting character to bring back? Why not Molly or Christa? The answer is simple, we as the players will be uncertain on where Lilly's morality and thoughts lie. Instead of bringing back an old friend which is unoriginal and done coutless times in the The Walking Dead universe, they could bring back a character who could potentially be anything. And why is that so special? Because this is a choice based game. Depending on our choices, on how we treat Lilly when we first meet her we could make her go through many different paths. We treat her with disrespect and hatred when we first meet her? She goes down the path of becoming an antagonist. We treat her with indifference? She goes down a path of redemption to try to regain our friendship. We treat her well and show no resent about the Carley/Doug situation, we gain a new ally. There are endless options, these are the most 'basic' ones, but I'm sure Telltale could think of something more interesting. Anyways, I think you catch what I'm saying, depending on our Clementine, Lilly's morality, motivations and relationship toward us would vary, and that is arguably more interesting that just having a character come back just to have their linear plot.
That's a given, and that's exactly what makes future interactions with her more interesting. How would Clem react to her character? What would Lilly do after meeting Clem? Does she accept that what she did was a mistake? Or would she try to justify herself and act on the offensive on whatever acusations Clem could throw at her? Would us (Clem) showing resent and unforgiveness to what she did change her, morally speaking, and possibly take her down a path of evilness? It's something unpredictable that could go so many ways that's be a shame to go unexplored, in my honest opinion.
Rest asured, though. It's very likely Lilly isn't coming back.
But how or why? I truly do prefer ambiguous closure - knowing at least the status of a character, over unanswered questions - questions the story brings up but never chooses to answer, which personally agitates me. It is a personal opinion I've had for a long time. Apologies if my comments make me sound angry but emotional interpretation of comments is more often than not, dependent on the reader.
She did say differently if you haven't been agreeable with her every choice involving Kenny/Lilly arguments.
O. K.
I keep wondering how the reunion of Lilly is going to turn out, good/bad depending on if Lilly still has a good side towards Clementine, Kenny for example in season 2 was the same, he was still the same old Kenny, but hasn't been able to control his anger in the series unless Clem calms him,
Carver beats Kenny but doesn't kill him, only to break his spirit, he says in episode 4 "Why couldn't Carver just kill me?".
Now Lilly is a different story, she lost pretty much everything, her mother before/during the apocalypse, her dad, and she suffered paranoia thinking someone is stealing from the group, and committed murder for thinking Ben or Carley were the culprits. Basically Lilly's status right now is compared to Kenny after he lost his family.
If Lilly returns it will be different because with Kenny, it was a happy reunion for Clementine, but with Lilly it'll be good/bad reunion for her, I think Lilly will probably be happy because Clem never done anything to her during S1, only Lee and Kenny were horrible to her (Unless she remembers Lee was good to her and tried saving Larry and wanted to go in the RV with her).
Molly probably won't come back, unless she's needed in the story to teach Clem more skill's of survival or if there is a big gang of Saviors on the way.
I don't think it's just witnessing Carley/Doug's death that affected her. Think of all the things she had to witness before that. Lee bashing Sandra's head in, being grabbed twice by a walker at the drugstore, seeing a legless Mark and the whole meat locker experience, being shot at by bandits. I would say all that took it's toll before hand
I don't hold hope for Kenny/Jane even appearing in S3 sadly
I would choose to argue a lot of your points except that I think there are 2 important points. 1.) This game is made so that everyone experiences it differently and that's the beauty of it and 2.) you actually agree with me that Lilly isn't coming back and those are all that really matters.
If I say yes and you say no that's not really a discussion. That's like 2 kids in a playground. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that you're putting your 2 cents in, but it has to be a complete sentence. I can't read your mind on how "it can." I'm open for you to sell it to me too just I don't think can get over the discussion I'm having on it.
You can't get us to like Lilly. That's your problem. End of story. If you're going to bring back a character it's gotta be because we want them back.
What you're saying is, "we're going to bring Jar Jar Binks back in Episode 9 of Star Wars. We think it could be interesting. Is everyone on board?" Then when everyone shakes their head no because he was a character made purposely to be irritating you reply, "actually, it can." How exactly do you plan to overcome that hump?
Yeah, the part where Carley/Doug get eaten by walkers, oh and don't forget the part where Carley/Doug get shot by Lilly.