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2 questions

ASaltLickASaltLick
in The Walking Dead

So I see these things pop up, sometimes and I kinda have questions about them.

  1. Why do lots of people dislike javier in season 3? I hear a lot of people say they don't like him, but why?

  2. Some people say that season 2 had a lot of mistakes. Such as?

If someone could answer, it'd be great

Comments

  • ralo229ralo229

    1. Because people only want to play as Clementine and want absolutely no change or variety whatsoever. I'm not on the same boat and I'm curious to play as Javier.

    2. Many have cited lack of character development, dumb decisions by said characters, and an unfocused narrative. I don't neccecarily agree with all of this, but those are the most common that I've heard around here.

  • Nikolaj-11Nikolaj-11

    I don't hate Javier myself, I'll reserve judgement till the game comes out, but I dislike that Telltale insist on giving Clementine the backseat when she's the character everyone cares about.

    Maybe Telltale can impress with this guy though, we shall see.

  • NorthStarsNorthStars
    edited December 2016

    Because people only want to play as Clementine and want absolutely no change or variety whatsoever.

    Err, no. Thats just one of the many reasons people dont like him. I personally dont like him because I don't prefer 2 playable characters over one, its just not as immersful for me and it can get annoying switching back to the other character when you prefer one over the other, or if it was just getting good playing as one character. I said this earlier that I now realize it will be awkward if people who like Clem will have to play as Javier if they get in any conflicts, at who's side they'd be on. I also don't like the idea of adding a completely new character as the main character, I would have much rathered Kenny (or Jane), or maybe even Luke if he wasn't forced killed, replacing Javier and having them and Clem as the main playables, having two familiar characters that people actually like and that we know and have been the original cast, rather than a new character, and not just having to scrap Kenny or Jane who seem as two of the most important characters of the game and to the players. Some people even just find him annoying at first glance, but I had my reasons. Do I prefer Javier as a main character? No, but I will still play it the first day it comes out.

    1. I preferred s2 over s1, I heard people say it didn't have as many puzzles or hubs or as great of characters. One of the biggest I hear complained alot is people just didn't like playing as a child. Both of your questions are just opinions and many people dont agree with them.
    ralo229 posted: »

    * Because people only want to play as Clementine and want absolutely no change or variety whatsoever. I'm not on the same boat and I'm curio

  • DabigRGDabigRG
    edited December 2016

    You know, there is a general questions thread to post small scale questions in, but whatever. Now with that formality out of the way.

    1. Oddly enough, there were so many people really excited about Javier at one point. I think the obvious reason is because they have Clementine on a bit of a pedestal and dislike the thought of having a new character being set up to be developed after so much time with her; some people here seemed to have a similar mindset when it came to Kenny overshadowing the Cabin Group, Sarita, Howe's Hardware, the Russian Group, and even Clementine herself. There's also his resemble to both Luke and Joel from the Last of Us making things a little awkward for some. Personally, I don't have much of an interest in The New Frontier in general and that recent trailer did little to push me either way.
    2. There's been quite a few threads dedicated to discussing that, with a recent one being a bit neglected( I've had plans, I promise) as of late. Here's a few problems off the top of my head:
    • Clementine not having that much of a personal investment at times, with some of the later episodes making her pick sides exclusively. Her character is thus a little too neutral at times and her characterization is a bit off on certain scenes and choices.
    • The Cabin Group are seen as being less strong or interesting than other characters despite being the main supporting cast and having hints of more polarizing traits, and their story arc is noticeably shortchanged with many aspects of their characters going underdeveloped, with Alvin and Carlos being seen as the biggest offenders.
    • Kenny's return wasn't fully elaborated and ultimately derailed the entire Season, as numerous plot lines are either aborted or outright hijacked by him, leading to the main plot itself being rushed to focus on him. Several characters gets demoted and/or derailed to do this, including Arvo, Jane, Mike, Carver, Carlos, Nick, Luke, and even Clementine herself a few times. He's really just there for the sake of nostalgia, "fanservice", and pandering to certain fans.
    • Luke seemed like he was being built up as a major character, but never really got to do anything important. Not helping matters is that he is typically seen as faffing about due to being bland in the first few episodes before the final few episodes essentially sideline him with an arc about his failure to be heroic and protect his group before he dies to kick off the final two conflicts of the episode.
    • Sarah and Nick, who are often seen as arguably the most complex and well-developed characters of not only the Cabin Group but the entire Season as well, are suddenly killed off in needlessly meanspirited fashions without having their characters resolved and few characters are affected by their deaths for more than a few seconds.
    • Carver is hyped up throughout the first two episodes as a serious threat before being summed up into a one-note villain that doesn't do that much before he dies in the third episode. Much of the Cabin Group's intended development was likely lost due to this and Carver himself ends up having more of a conflict with Kenny than Clementine(who claims to be alike), Luke(who apparently worked closely with him before leading the Cabin Group in their escape), or Carlos(who he seemed to have a special antagonism with), and most of his screentime is just him being an insufferable mouthpiece, hurting/killing people, or tossing around smug teases towards his history with the Cabin Group and possible greater plans for them that ultimately go nowhere.
    • Jane is a bit of an obvious gimmick character that is teased a few times throughout Episode 3 to hype her up as this stoic badass before suddenly getting a huge promotion in screentime in the final two episodes. While she does add some actual relevance for Clementine and showed potential to do the same for other characters, she ultimately comes across as something of a sorta decent Self Insert character that pretty much just panders to a certain crowd, overshadows and outright replaces a few characters, is a bit hard to like or sympathize with for some due to her unfortunate similarities to both Molly and Carver, shares many problems that Kenny has, and gets shoehorned into a WWE championship match against Kenny in the final episode.
    • Arvo is introduced to be the next big villain after Carver except he is established to be more of an antivillain, with his first introduction to Clementine and Jane setting up a more ambiguous conflict, but the Russian Group is wiped out as quickly as they're introduced and Arvo himself is reduced to a plot device to bring Kenny's instability to the surface before running off alongside Mike and Bonnie after shooting Clementine, an MEH that's actually kinda pointless in hindsight but that's neither here nor there.
    • Many side characters in addition to the ones named are woefully underutilized, with Sarita, the 400 Days survivors, Reggie, and Mike being notable examples.
    • Several determinant choices don't matter past a certain point, with some characters rarely recalling certain actions towards them outside of specific ones.
    • As mentioned before, several plot points and themes are cut short or sometimes mishandled, leading to some confusing and outright contradictory moments. Examples include the Cabin Group having skeletons in the closest, Clementine wanting to find Christa, Kenny wanting to find Wellington, Nick and later Sarah's self-destructive depression, Carver and Jane's discrimination against "Liabilities", and the city across the river going unmentioned in the final episode.
  • Kennyshouladiedins1Kennyshouladiedins1

    I have no problem with Javier...I just think people hate change.

    Season 2 had many issues. Here are some.

    • Story flow is inconsistent.
    • Cabin Group introduced and then seemingly forgotten in regards of character development.
    • Carver is a very generic villain who is gone by ep.3
    • Kenny and Jane fight is badly written. Nothing made any sense.
    • Bonnie and Mike who seemingly cared for Clem and AJ..decide to leave with all the food leave them to starve because they distrust Kenny.
    • Unearned deaths...death in the walking dead is part of the drama...you fight for these characters..and it hurts if you like them. Sarah is such a case. Earlier in the episode you have to talk to her and convince her to live...but then later...LOL guess what...she dies anyway. And how does she die...the deck falls on her and she gets chomped to death...the deck she was on...somehow she got under.
    • Amid the Ruins
    • Unbelievable Gunfight with automatic weapons. Russians suck at aiming...no wonder we won the cold war.
    • Telltale forgot that The Walking Dead is at it's best when you remember it is a drama about humans and their struggles...Season 2 forgot for the most part human drama and then tacked on a lame confrontation between Jane the new person and Kenny...Kenny who has been steadily getting more vicious...but they way the fight is instigated is so stupid and moronic...that even Jane fans feel cheated even when Jane wins the fight it boils down to...yeah I played you and Kenny...but he is dead..please forgive me.

    Season 2 is a slump. TWD:Michonne turned out pretty good..so I have high hopes for ANF.

  • Black-Op1Black-Op1

    I co-sign pretty much all of this.

    DabigRG posted: »

    You know, there is a general questions thread to post small scale questions in, but whatever. Now with that formality out of the way. *

  • LadarielLadariel

    Well just my thoughts...

    1. Javier is a mysterious stranger that takes away the spotlight from Clementine whom the games seemed to follow and develop up until now. Change is good when necessary and not all the time. If folks want change in characters then there are plenty of fighting games to play where you choose your preferred character. A change in protagonist only made sense the most due to the way season one concluded I felt. Not changing to a new face every season now. So I would suppose at this rate by season 4 we'd get to see how 19 year old Phoebe or Phillip from Chinatown and dysfunctional family deals with the apocalypse. It eventually begins to look like a silly game of leap frog from around the world hopping from protagonist to protagonist. That is how I see it.

    Now had they not jumped the gun and killed off pretty much the entire cast of season 2, then what would had been so hard and complicated about perhaps making Luke or Nick what Javier is now paired up with Clem? They might not have a kidnapped family but then again why would or should the audience suddenly become so strongly invested into Javier's family they know nothing about right away? And I'm guessing something has to go down with his fam pretty early on in the game like the first episode and the rest of the season is one grand adventure goose hunt for his lost or already dead relatives. At least the comics stick with Rick and likely when Rick's done they might follow someone already well known, liked and close to Rick,, like Carl his son to be the new main character of the comic.

    2.Season 2 wasn't the worst game ever at all ..however most people compare it to season 1 and then it is revealed to have quite a bit of shortcomings in comparison to it's predecessor game. But even if you look at season 2 as a stand alone and don't compare to season 1 it still has shortcomings that even Wolf Among Us would seem to have surpassed it in structure and plot.

  • Bon-BonBon-Bon

    I don't get why people even have an opinion of Javier. We've only seen him in two minutes of video. I'm not saying anything until I've played the game.

  • AronDraculaAronDracula

    Why do lots of people dislike javier in season 3? I hear a lot of people say they don't like him, but why?

    1. They want Clementine as the main focus and PC
    2. They don't like having two protagonist instead of one just like the previous seasons

    But what's more confusing is that, WHY DO PEOPLE WANT JAVIER TO DIE?

    Some people say that season 2 had a lot of mistakes. Such as?

    Simple:

    • Amid the Ruins which is written by an non-Telltale employee
    • Lack of hubs and character development
    • Main characters of Season 2 are dead and are forgotten
    • Too much focus on Kenny and Jane
    • Meaningless choices
    • Main villain of Season 2 dies in episode 3
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