The Truth about the Season 2 and Kenny
Permaximum
Banned
If you carefully analyse the actual events of the season 2 as a whole, you'll realize that Kenny was the only one who saved the group from terrible event after terrible event while others mostly talked behind his back. He was the one protecting the group and coming up with solutions all along while others were hiding or running or fucking or sitting on their asses.
Quickly but wisely coming up with plans and executing them for the group, losing an eye for Clementine, saving the "stranger" unwilling group that caused nothing but pain to him from Carver's camp and eventually killing "Bill", helping Rebecca and delivering AJ alive, taking care of AJ without even sleeping, protecting the group from walkers because Jane and Luke was fucking instead of perimeter watching, saving the group from Russian attack by killing them while others were sitting behind the cover or left the group, securing and clearing camp points for the group and taking watches for them while they comfortably sleep.
Fixing a truck for them while they complain, warning them about Arvo and how he is a dangerous threat while they blame him because he "beat" him, only to be proven right again when Arvo shoots Clementine and others try to leave them and the baby with all the food, water and the truck that Kenny fixed only to leave them to die.
Pursuing the long-term best interest of AJ, Clementine and the group by going after Wellington while others talk about going back, Carver's camp, Texas etc. because it's cold in the north. Telling Clementine she did the right decision and she's right no matter what she does. Eventually he's proven right again by finding Wellington and sacrificing himself for AJ and Clementine just like he sacrificed himself for Ben or Christa again in the first season.
For careful players, the game was full of subtle hints to trust Kenny always and help him when Sarita was dead and he was completely broken. On the other hand, the game was also giving lots of clues about the fact that Jane was going after Kenny and provoking the group when she decided to put Clementine in her dead sister's place as a strong better surviver and ease her guilt about her sister's death.
What Jane did at the end was a completely psychopatic act. Given that situation, most parents would try to kill Jane especially the ones that lost every member of his family before.
Also, we have seen Jane was just talk about surviving. She's cunning and she brought knife to ensure that she could kill Kenny and she was so confident about killing him that she wanted Clementine to stay out of it no matter what happens.
Kenny was an unarmed, injured, one-eyed, at that moment out-of-his-mind an old guy and if you don't intervene Kenny still kills Jane despite the fact that Jane used her knife and tried to exploit Kenny's injured eye and go for that weakness as soon as the fight starts which only confirms she calculated all of this. Still her advantages and Kenny's disadvantages were not enough for Jane to survive. In the end, she begged for Clementine's help to save her skin. What happened to confident Jane that told Clementine to stay out of this "no matter what happens"?
I really hope Telltale will totaly disregard those endings with Jane. Those endings couldn't be more out of place in a game like this and I believe they were pretty much made to inform the player that what they did by killing Kenny was an incredibly wrong choice. And they ofc awarded those wise souls that saw the bigger picture and the signs throughout the game and didn't give a shit about what other group members said behind Kenny's back because they were afraid of him or wanted him gone in Jane's case.
Comments
Dude, this isn't exactly news. One of the reasons Episode 3 in particular felt so weak was because Kenny seemed to be doing most of the things that other characters probably could've done and the plot didn't really move much unless he was involved. While I'm sure Kenny fans could(and did) enjoy that, it still made the plot feel bare and the rest of the Season hinging on him wasn't that much of a great idea, objectively speaking.
Honestly, it's unlikely that any of the endings will have that much of an effect on the New Frontier.
I agree. In retrospect it feels like season 2 was a test of whether you could see past Kenny's flaws and see the good man that he is. Kenny's two endings in Wellington show how selfless and good natured Kenny is and also show how he is Clem's family who will always put the kids first. Jane didn't even know Kenny but three days or less and was trying to say he was like Carver and all this nonsense. Her big plan to abandon a baby in a truck, during a blizzard with walkers everywhere, just to instigate a situation where she could kill Kenny was insane and completely unjustified, even if she did think that Kenny was a loose cannon. Her endings at Howe's are completely disappointing and feel out of place.... I've even see youtubers say "Wait it's over?" in the Jane endings.
I'm going to disagree with you there
I actually like the Jane endings
Well, the one where you let the family in, at least. The one where you turn them away... not so much
So much confirmation bias.
I will address the original post properly today or tomorrow, but after analyzing it I was left with the impression that @Permaximum is reasoning under a bias that prevents them from consider the immoral and impractical actions done by Kenny, and is also narrow-minded regarding Jane, and has a skewed perspective on how sane people would react to being informed of the death of their child, and also suggests that players who didn't like Kenny and didn't dislike Jane aren't "careful players."
I ask nobody other than Daze to reply, because I will not respond.
The At Howe's with Jane and AJ is the second best ending after Alone with AJ.
Lilly also did a lot of things for the group, yet everyone hates her for 1 action, Kenny did a lot worse yet everyone forgives him.
Not me, I have never forgiven Kenny for one second. That guy was an asshole.
People seems to forget how if you side with Lilly in Ep 2 he tries to let you die the whole rest of the game, and when you ask him for help to rescue Clementine he says "Nah, you wouldn't do the same for me", and you need convince him to save the life of a 9 years old little girl.
I agree with pretty much everything, except the last paragraph. I don't see it as wrong or right. It's a choice. Sure, I don't think the Jane endings are good (and not because I hate her, but because they felt random and unemotional, specially in comparison to the level of emotion the Kenny endings have) and I can't understand why anyone would even choose to go with her but hey, it's their choice and Telltale gave it to them. So it's not really fair to say that Telltale should completely ignore it and cater only to the ones who went with Kenny.
I'll never understand the apologists. I get not get no liking Jane, she's clearly an asshole as well. But Kenny could outright be monstrous at points, down right cowardly and very petty. Then S2 Ep3 rolls around and he becomes the messiah. All in all his character leaves a horrible taste in my mouth, but thankfully I'll never have to put up with him again.
Kenny never betrayed anyone, did he?
There is reason to Kenny's madness, which why I could never hate him in S2. I wouldn't say his plans were wise or too well thought out, in fact they felt more desperate than anything. Still he tried for the people he loved and I gotta give him credit for that. It felt like when the group was mad at him or giving him shit for voicing his aggressive opinion, the player was tested to see how loyal your willing to stand by him despite how in the wrong he seemed. This game would feel a hell of a lot duller without Kenny.
That said, the Jane endings were fine and should not be disregarded. People have their view on Kenny and if they feel wrong to be with him in the end, that's their choice.
To be honest, I see that more as Telltale's fault. They gave that decision way too much impact on Kenny's relationship with Lee, to the point that it makes no sense why would he hate your guts because of one decision, even if for the rest of the game you always sided with him. But even so, that decision is pretty big. Dead people turn really fast and Larry was dead, Lilly said he stopped breathing, what were the chances she would bring him back to life before he could turn? If he turned, they would've all probably died. At that moment Kenny is only thinking about the safety of the group and his family and how he needs to get to them and save them, so I can't really blame him for his decision. If you don't side with him, he sees you as a threat because you put his family in danger. Yes, it's a bit exaggerated, but still, I see where he is coming from, you know?
He killed Larry just because he didn't liked him, he let's Danny kill Lee and Lilly has to save our ass, he also let us die in the hands of Andy when he tries to put our face in the electric fence, he also let us die when the walkers attack the pharmacy, he also hints that he had no plans of inviting you to the boat, he also prefers Clementine being captured to lose his boat.
Those are pretty good reasons.
I agree mostly. Some players want to demonise Kenny without taking in account all the information. I don't think he was wrong to beat Carver who ruined his eye and had raped Rebecca. Kenny's behaviour was actually sanctioned by Rebecca if you looked closely. Luke left the group vulnerable to walkers after volunteering to stand watch. I would be upset with him if that happened. Kenny's racist comments toward Arvo were objectionable, but he brought his group down on us to rob and kill, thanks to Jane. He wasn't innocent. Mike needed an 11 year old's help to kill a walker, spent most of his time complaining, and Bonnie wasn't woman enough to talk to Kenny herself. Yet they believed they had the right to the vehicle and all the food. I think Kenny's brash, abrasive personality made it difficult for a lot of people, me included, to look more closely at the situation and see he and Clementine were carrying the most responsibility. Hindsight is useful here. The only thing I really still disagree with him on is looking for Wellington. With a new baby who needed food, it wasn't wise to take the risk of looking for a place that might not have existed when they had another option. It is very convenient that Kenny and Clementine found Wellington by stumbling through the woods in a snow storm.
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That's 100% not true. He did that because he feared Larry would have turned and kill everyone in the room. If you want someone to blame, blame Ben because he warned the whole group that the bite doesn't result becoming a walker.\
That didn't happen in my game
Dude, did you forget that he got shot? How was he supposed to help?
Dude, those happened because of YOUR decisions, these are NOT my decisions. I have my own. Also, who is "us" exactly?
When did he say THAT?
That didn't happen to me. He preferred to come with me.
Why he didn't the same with his son? he was going to turn and kill everyone, in fact, that's what happens if you don't convince Kenny to stop the train
That's Andy and the fence, I'm talking about when Danny surprises you with his shotgun in the barn, he stays hidden and watches you die
Because he lost control, if Lee wasn't there his son could have died.
He told me that because of siding with Lilly and being a murderer when I told them with Carley alive my decisions were going to affect my place in the boat.
Oh yeah, Larry could became a zombie and kill everyone in the room, that reminds me to Duck.
Side with Lilly then
If you always side with Lilly he tells you that when you go to search a boat near Crowford, and he says the same if not worst if you tell you are a murerer with Carley alive
We all are Lee. #LeeLifeMatters
Because you always side with him? you can't call Carver evil since if you are awful nice with him as Clem he treats you just fine.
It is clear that his dislike of Larry played a factor. What if it had been Katjaa or Duck, just as it was in the pharmacy in "A New Day?" I am sure that he would have been on the floor trying to revive either of them.
I went with Jane because I know she is not a burden, I already have one baby at my charge, I don't want another baby with just one eye.
Clementine lost Lee, her parents, her friends, all her life and she was just a kid.
Do you see her being crazy?
Why is okay when Kenny is mad because of Sarita, Katjaa and Duck, but is wrong when Lilly is mad because she lost her father and she can't trust anyone in the group?
Carver didn't rape Rebecca, if you don't have any solid proof don't say that sort of things.
Is like me saying Bruce Wayne is Batman without proofs.
Now everything is Luke and Jane fault? where was Kenny before? just crying in his tent and feeling sorry for himself, hell he cried more for Sarita than for Katjaa and Duck.
Jane doesn't steal the medicine from Arvo, is Clementine who decides if they should or shouldn't.
Lilly did not save Lee because she resented him for contributing on the killing of her father, this taking place minutes after the death.
Kenny did not save Lee because he resented him for not contributing on the killing of Larry and leaving him to cope with guilt by himself, this taking place weeks after the death.
Surely it is the same!
No, actually is looking at the facts in an unbiased way. If you side with Lilly Kenny will leave you to your fate in episode 2, 3 and 4.
In Starved for Help, he will idly stand by while Danny St. John kills you. Much to Lee's luck, Lilly and Clem come to the rescue. After the fight is over, Lee will look and Kenny and say "Kenny, what the fuck?!" to which Kenny responds with a angry face (probably because you didn't die) and leaves without a word.
In Long Road Ahaed, the walkers will burst through the door, leaving Lee with about 3 walkers on top of him. Lee will call Kenny but Kenny just looks at Lee sternly and then looks to the exit and once again, he idly stands by.
Finally, in Around Every Corner, a little girl named Clementine goes missing, her protector Lee is about to go rescue her. If Lee asks for Kenny's help he will just spit on you (figuratively speaking) and leave you to your fate, even in the scenario where he know you'll be going alone and even if he know you are now a bitten man. This can only be avoided if you murder Ben, because that's something very important to mantain Kenny's friendship: murdering kids.
And let's not forget that Lilly leaves you to die, moments after you killed her father. Kenny, in episode 2, leaves you to die based on something that could've happened, but never did. In episode 3, he is still pissed that you, somehow, endangered his family by not helping smashing Larry's skull, but disregards the fact that it was Lee that actually saved his family days after while he was doing god know what and stupidly charging at a guy with a rifle pointed at his son's head.
Not true either. If you get below 2 on the 'Kenny friendship meter' (or murder people Kenny doesn't like meter as I like to call it) he will give you the "I don't know why you're looking this way Lee", which is a scenario where you can't convince him to go with you.
I understand that in the scenario where you agreed to murder Larry he can be a cool guy, but I see no way of looking at Kenny's actions in the save Larry scenario and don't think of him as a disgusting asshole.
Well, there was the pharmacy raid.
No, she killed Carley in front of everyone with no hesitation.
Sorry, I didn't get that.
I have MY Lee and you can have YOUR Lee.
I didn't agree with him about stealing the stuff from the station wagon and letting Ben die yet he still came
He killed Walter, an innocent man, and beat Kenny down even though he gave him the radio.
So you think he would have done that if Ben never warned them?
Sorry to disappoint you but you didn't went with the REAL survivor. An unarmed, injured, one-eyed old man Kenny kills armed Jane in a fight to death if the player never intervenes.
This was most likely because he could throw a trantum.
Morally, they should have left part of the supplies with our own group, but, technically, they had every right to the vehicle and the food since they were Arvo's and Arvo was part of the fleeing party.
He lost "a son". That's the top point of psychological pain. And he lost his entire family just in front of him, twice!
That's very different than what others suffered.
Well, I went with Kenny because I know he is trustworthy and will do anything to protect Clem and AJ, including sacrificing himself. I don't want someone who may just bail at any moment to save their own skin.
No, I believe he would not have done so.
But in the actual scenario, it is clear that who the person lying on the floor is plays a role in deciding whether to salt lick them or attempt to bring them back to life; this thought process does happen subconsciously.
@Arshei really wanted to go on the boat.
When you first come out of the meat locker, Lee and Kenny hide in one of the stalls as Andy and Danny discuss what to do with them. The third time you peak out, Danny is standing right there with his shotgun ready, forcing Lee to counter. No matter what you do, Danny knocks Lee down, recovers from whatever you did to defend yourself from him, and prepares to shoot Lee while he's down. If you sided with Lilly to save Larry or simply did nothing, Kenny will be caught in an "oh shit!" moment watching through the stalls and does nothing, which has Lilly show up with a sickle and force Danny back into his beartrap. However, I recently discovered that if you helped kill Larry, Kenny will attack with the sickle instead.
Jane steals Arvo's gun no matter what Clementine says.
Kenny cried a lot for Sarita - still not that much he cried when Katjaa and Duck died so you remember wrong - because this is the second time he loses his family in front of him.
They weren't Arvo's.
You picked Kenny over Jane because you want to be with somebody who would lose their lives for Clementine, but, if it came to it, would you return Kenny that gratitude and lose Clementine's life for him?