I agree OP, but I found it surprisingly easy to play Javi without jumping to defend Clementine all the time-- in fact, I found it highly rewarding to do so. I realize many of my choices so far have probably made Clem not like me too much, such as telling the truth about her shooting that guy by accident, but despite my long-standing relationship with Clementine I can't bring myself to treat her special when there are so many other people to look out for. She's really become a bit of a wild card, and I can't bring myself to always take responsibility for her decisions.
The stats don't lie, but my Clem needs to chill out. If Javier can make that happen I'd be fine. If not then Clem can Just go with Jesus,whether he wants her to or not.....
Strangely enough, a lot of things about Javier make me think of Luke.
Because my Clem had Luke as a big influence in her life and her moral compass, I was kinda hoping she would mention him to Javier eventually. Maybe in the future we can get a "You remind me of someone I knew" sort of line.
Anyone else also chose Tripp over Eleanor, because Clem said that Tripp is more trustworthy ? I actually wanted to go with Eleanor back, whe… moren she offered it. Just to have some action xD. I don't know, if I chose different, because of Clem, but she reminded me not trust someone just because he/she was nice
But then Tripp was super cool, also strong and he would be with us to protect the people at the junkyard.
Thing is, no choice has been Clem v. Javi's family. Way I've played, what's good for Javi's family is the same thing as what's good for Clem. You're not really being put into a catch 22. It's more like the plot so far has been about how much you trust Clem (or don't) and whether you want to encourage her into your group or not. How much does she influence you? Because she's been very good at influencing other characters throughout the series, for good or ill. She may not go along anyway, but it's not either/or.
I'm enjoying playing Javi and playing off Clem. My Javi is trying to convince Clem to trust him and help his family, but he doesn't just pat her on the back with everything she does. They've got an interesting interplay.
Nah dude. Clem is No. 1 and always will be for me 2 seasons before this one has give me that opinion now I'm just supposed to drop that and … morechoose what's best for Javiers family who I've knew for an episode or two over Clem. I get your opinion and your entitled to it, obviously I just can't agree with it.
I'm in the same boat. I think the main thing was how well they handled season 1s interactions, I wasn't quite sure whether or not it was going to be some annoying brat screaming "LEON" as she gets carried away through half the game. The relationship with the player formed a genuine concern for her because of the difficulty of the situation, and not because we had to hold her hand through hordes of bad guys. More of an emotional attachment. Lee was also sort of a clean slate, and not just because he was the first protagonist in a new story. There really wasn't any forced attachment with him, other than the store in Macon we were pretty much free to play with as much or little attachment as we wanted, without having to feel like we have an obligation or arguments that we should be prioritizing the way Lee would.
I think that also helped making Clementine the player character in S2. I enjoyed the season, but it was very dark. We spent the whole of season 1 protecting her, now we're surviving as her, very quickly alone in the world and before being taken in by strangers. Even then it was still rough, as a new member of the group I was suspicious for a while about how they'd treat her, given that first night.
This was all built up to, though. Clems back, but her involvement has been much smaller than I would have hoped continuing the series, and this attitude that they're trying to instill that I should forget everything that's happened and redirect the relationship built to these new characters seems like a bit much.
Yeah, understandable. As for myself I'll always stick by Clem, even if she becomes the most evil fuck ever in season 3 she's still Clem and … moreI'm the one who's raised her and took her what she's been through. I feel like season 1 and 2 were great, a continuation of eachother but ANF is kinda unfitting. I'm liking it so far but it doesn't give me the same feel as S1 and 2. Doesn't feel as immersive and emotional, I'm starting to get to like the characters but I'm only really really emotionally attached to Clem.
With the tattoo, I was like, "$#!@ must've gone sideways..", I challenged her on it, and I refused to go along with turning on her, not because it's precious Clem, but because it sounds like something went really poorly and they'd probably want her head for it. Which wouldn't advantage Javi's family at all. I didn't pull the gun until Javi did it automatically after what happened with Gabe. Then it was an easy choice. But it's not because 'omg it's Clem!'.
Same thing at the Junkyard ambush. I stayed with Clem to cover Javi's family's retreat more than to protect Clem. She was protecting his family. And at the town, I had Javi shoot first, mainly because I didn't trust the other townspeople not to hand Javi over in exchange. So I didn't give them the chance. Clem's suggestions haven't all been about benefitting Clem.
Yeah I also got that Clementine-over-everyone-feeling. If I would play as Javier and met Clem for the really really first time I would quest… moreion her actions a lot more. When the New Frontier tatoo would have been revealed to me as Javier, I would of course question her character, but since I know Clem since season 1 I was like "yeah she probably had her reasons"
"It's Clem what could go wrong"
Really strongly disagree with the idea Clem shouldn't have been there. That's what's really cool about this season, playing a new character off my old character. Been asking for something like that for a while in games. It's new.
My only problems are in how short the episodes have been and how they wasted Jane/Kenny, especially Jane.
This is why if TT wanted us to play as Javier so badly Clem shouldn't have been in this season. I feel as though they used Clem as bait to get the attention of those who like the game because of Clem.
I think the main reason we're not as emotionally attached to the family is a. we didn't get to spend enough time with them before they started killing them off (episodes too short), and b. they killed the most likable (Mariana) and started the deathmarch to save the most interesting (Kate) so early while we're basically left with the least likable, least interesting one (Gabe) to look forward with, and then you have Clem. So of course people are going to gravitate to Clem. But it's not because we have new characters v. Clem. There are other factors that make it hard to invest in what's left of Javier and his family.
Yeah, understandable. As for myself I'll always stick by Clem, even if she becomes the most evil fuck ever in season 3 she's still Clem and … moreI'm the one who's raised her and took her what she's been through. I feel like season 1 and 2 were great, a continuation of eachother but ANF is kinda unfitting. I'm liking it so far but it doesn't give me the same feel as S1 and 2. Doesn't feel as immersive and emotional, I'm starting to get to like the characters but I'm only really really emotionally attached to Clem.
This was one I went against Clem on. I chose Eleanor because it was faster, with the family in trouble, and because I really like Eleanor so far, so I'm hoping Javi can grow that relationship, since he now has a romantic option other than his sister-in-law. Hope we get to potentially see that play out.
Anyone else also chose Tripp over Eleanor, because Clem said that Tripp is more trustworthy ? I actually wanted to go with Eleanor back, whe… moren she offered it. Just to have some action xD. I don't know, if I chose different, because of Clem, but she reminded me not trust someone just because he/she was nice
But then Tripp was super cool, also strong and he would be with us to protect the people at the junkyard.
Yeah It's not like it was always "'It's because of Clem". I didn't trust the exchanging Javi thing. Also I wanted to go with the family until Clem said we can buy them time and kill them before they come back. Clem gave here and there really good tips I didn't consider (sometimes though you don't know where Telltale is forcing you to go with your "choices". I also wanted to take the gun until Javi did it. I don't know. Maybe Clem is like a npc tutorial in this game giving good tips.
I still kinda have this feeling "It's Clem I have to side with her". I wished I could delete my memories to Clem and play this game as if I never knew here.
With the tattoo, I was like, "$#!@ must've gone sideways..", I challenged her on it, and I refused to go along with turning on her, not beca… moreuse it's precious Clem, but because it sounds like something went really poorly and they'd probably want her head for it. Which wouldn't advantage Javi's family at all. I didn't pull the gun until Javi did it automatically after what happened with Gabe. Then it was an easy choice. But it's not because 'omg it's Clem!'.
Same thing at the Junkyard ambush. I stayed with Clem to cover Javi's family's retreat more than to protect Clem. She was protecting his family. And at the town, I had Javi shoot first, mainly because I didn't trust the other townspeople not to hand Javi over in exchange. So I didn't give them the chance. Clem's suggestions haven't all been about benefitting Clem.
I disagree entirely. I feel invested in Javi and his role with his family. Of course I'm still partial to helping Clem, but I think Javi is … morean excellent character that I'm glad we have an opportunity to explore. If season 3 did one thing right, it was the characters, including Javi and his family
I completely feel out of place as Javier also. I just wanna protect clementine, I even named my daughter after her. I love Clem and I wish we could play as her instead. I feel like telltale just wanted to make it so newcomers could play too, but from the choices I've seen everyone making, it looks like we are the majority. Please telltale let me be Clem again?!
I had Javi lie for her, mainly because the guy had just tried to kill them and I didn't want the town to turn around and try to execute them. Surprised how that resulted, though.
I agree OP, but I found it surprisingly easy to play Javi without jumping to defend Clementine all the time-- in fact, I found it highly rew… morearding to do so. I realize many of my choices so far have probably made Clem not like me too much, such as telling the truth about her shooting that guy by accident, but despite my long-standing relationship with Clementine I can't bring myself to treat her special when there are so many other people to look out for. She's really become a bit of a wild card, and I can't bring myself to always take responsibility for her decisions.
True, that's probably why I don't replay TTG games much.. It's fun while you're flying blind, but then if the choices don't differentiate enough, it's hard to get into alternate play throughs.
Yeah It's not like it was always "'It's because of Clem". I didn't trust the exchanging Javi thing. Also I wanted to go with the family unti… morel Clem said we can buy them time and kill them before they come back. Clem gave here and there really good tips I didn't consider (sometimes though you don't know where Telltale is forcing you to go with your "choices". I also wanted to take the gun until Javi did it. I don't know. Maybe Clem is like a npc tutorial in this game giving good tips.
I still kinda have this feeling "It's Clem I have to side with her". I wished I could delete my memories to Clem and play this game as if I never knew here.
I completely feel out of place as Javier also. I just wanna protect clementine, I even named my daughter after her. I love Clem and I wish w… moree could play as her instead. I feel like telltale just wanted to make it so newcomers could play too, but from the choices I've seen everyone making, it looks like we are the majority. Please telltale let me be Clem again?!
Hopefully the focus was more on Javi in the first two episodes for plot and the purpose of setting up his character. With most of that out of the way now AND the story finally becoming really relevant to Clem, this paves the way for a more equal focus
I feel you. He's cool I like him, but maybe for me a 50/50 split between him and Clem would of suited the season abit better. Javi is a good guy with a good relationship with Clem so far but he cares for his family most and for me it's Clem.
but if it doesn't make sense for the character to do so, then you shouldn't do so.
That's a lot easier said than done especially when us, the player, has an emotional attachment to Clementine who we've known for years VS. Javier's family that we've known for 1 hour. You can't just give us a character an say "here, you're in his shoes now care about everything he cares about then pick every logical reason." Just isn't possible when Clementine is around.
Yeah, I feel you, I also tried to make Lee a sort of Justin Bieber, but the game didn't gave me the option so I hate S1.
Dude... you are … moreplaying Javier, not yourself, you are playing a sarcastic guy who loves his family and would do anything for them, I get it you like Clem, and you want to side with her always, but if it doesn't make sense for the character to do so, then you shouldn't do so.
Telltale Games should have reconsidered this. In some cases (based on the percentages), players will make choices that go against what Javier would otherwise do, and instead be in favor of what Clementine would rather have done, irrespective of what they would normally choose to do. However, this is to be expected in a series where players have grown accustomed to a particular character. Players will naturally gravitate towards that character, who they have come to know and love. Clementine being that character, the percentages are likely to stay in her favor from here on out. Javier's introduction to the universe of The Walking Dead was poorly executed, given that Clementine is featured as a supporting role which has involvement in majority of the story. Therefore, some players will have a bias concerning what to do in tense situations that may present themselves, due to the presence of a returning character who they have seen grow up over the span of 4 years, like Clementine.
Telltale Games should have reconsidered this. In some cases (based on the percentages), players will make choices that go against what Javie… morer would otherwise do, and instead be in favor of what Clementine would rather have done, irrespective of what they would normally choose to do. However, this is to be expected in a series where players have grown accustomed to a particular character. Players will naturally gravitate towards that character, who they have come to know and love. Clementine being that character, the percentages are likely to stay in her favor from here on out. Javier's introduction to the universe of The Walking Dead was poorly executed, given that Clementine is featured as a supporting role which has involvement in majority of the story. Therefore, some players will have a bias concerning what to do in tense situations that may present themselves, due to the presence of a returning character who they have seen grow up over the span of 4 years, like Clementine.
To be completely honest, The Walking Dead: A New Frontier would have acted better as a standalone miniseries, that leads up to the continuation of Clementine's story (namely, The Walking Dead: Season Three), where the player regains control of her in dramatic fashion (or at least I would prefer that). Instead, the writers thought that it was best to include Clementine in Javier's story, in which she plays a huge role to the progression of the story, and players who have been with the series from the beginning are more likely to be bias in their choices. Now mind you, I won't compromise my morals to please Clementine's now cynical lifestyle, which is the exact opposite of how Lee raised her and how I played as her, but I take it that most players would completely disregard humanity for the sake of her, even Javier's own family.
Lets be real, The New Frontier did not need Clem. It should have been two different stories and seasons to please everyone. Javier gets the spotlight for one season, and in actual season 3, clementine gets her own spotlight. The new frontier should gave waited. I have no idea what telltale producers where thinking and why they thought it was a good idea when writing this stuff. They had to have realized it's fucked up when playing it. They could have even made Javier have one playable episode in ANF, then clem, then Javier, then clem, if they really wanted to keep clem in ANF, but this really isn't season 3.
Yes, I was talking with my sister about this as we played the game too. Set up the New Frontier and settle Javier's family issues and possibly his relationship to David and the survivors from Prescott.
Would also make the Clem/Javier friendship/rivalry more interesting as it would be two characters that we had grown to know independently.
To be completely honest, The Walking Dead: A New Frontier would have acted better as a standalone miniseries, that leads up to the continuat… moreion of Clementine's story (namely, The Walking Dead: Season Three), where the player regains control of her in dramatic fashion (or at least I would prefer that). Instead, the writers thought that it was best to include Clementine in Javier's story, in which she plays a huge role to the progression of the story, and players who have been with the series from the beginning are more likely to be bias in their choices. Now mind you, I won't compromise my morals to please Clementine's now cynical lifestyle, which is the exact opposite of how Lee raised her and how I played as her, but I take it that most players would completely disregard humanity for the sake of her, even Javier's own family.
You took the words right out of my mouth! Telltale Games lured in unsuspecting individuals (like myself) with the promise of Clementine being a playable character, for what we now know is all for like 5-10 minutes depending, in flashback scenes of all things. If Telltale would have taken the approach of Tales From The Borderlands, where we had control of two characters throughout our journey, then it could have made for better storytelling, and immersed us in the experience more than it has, at least for me.
Yes, I was talking with my sister about this as we played the game too. Set up the New Frontier and settle Javier's family issues and possib… morely his relationship to David and the survivors from Prescott.
Would also make the Clem/Javier friendship/rivalry more interesting as it would be two characters that we had grown to know independently.
I can't remember who it was, but I think Clementine said something like "You remind me of someone I knew" in Season 2. Am I wrong ? Or did she say something like that. Was it with Pete or Luke or something ? Idk
Strangely enough, a lot of things about Javier make me think of Luke.
Because my Clem had Luke as a big influence in her life and her mor… moreal compass, I was kinda hoping she would mention him to Javier eventually. Maybe in the future we can get a "You remind me of someone I knew" sort of line.
I can't remember who it was, but I think Clementine said something like "You remind me of someone I knew" in Season 2. Am I wrong ? Or did she say something like that. Was it with Pete or Luke or something ? Idk
Comments
I agree OP, but I found it surprisingly easy to play Javi without jumping to defend Clementine all the time-- in fact, I found it highly rewarding to do so. I realize many of my choices so far have probably made Clem not like me too much, such as telling the truth about her shooting that guy by accident, but despite my long-standing relationship with Clementine I can't bring myself to treat her special when there are so many other people to look out for. She's really become a bit of a wild card, and I can't bring myself to always take responsibility for her decisions.
The stats don't lie, but my Clem needs to chill out. If Javier can make that happen I'd be fine. If not then Clem can Just go with Jesus,whether he wants her to or not.....
Strangely enough, a lot of things about Javier make me think of Luke.
Because my Clem had Luke as a big influence in her life and her moral compass, I was kinda hoping she would mention him to Javier eventually. Maybe in the future we can get a "You remind me of someone I knew" sort of line.
Yeah man choose trip over Eleanor.
I feel like they are doing a good job portraying Clem like an equal and not like a child. I'm trying to treat her like an equal and a friend.
Besides, she sounds like she knows what she is doing so I'm following her lead.
Thing is, no choice has been Clem v. Javi's family. Way I've played, what's good for Javi's family is the same thing as what's good for Clem. You're not really being put into a catch 22. It's more like the plot so far has been about how much you trust Clem (or don't) and whether you want to encourage her into your group or not. How much does she influence you? Because she's been very good at influencing other characters throughout the series, for good or ill. She may not go along anyway, but it's not either/or.
I'm enjoying playing Javi and playing off Clem. My Javi is trying to convince Clem to trust him and help his family, but he doesn't just pat her on the back with everything she does. They've got an interesting interplay.
I'm in the same boat. I think the main thing was how well they handled season 1s interactions, I wasn't quite sure whether or not it was going to be some annoying brat screaming "LEON" as she gets carried away through half the game. The relationship with the player formed a genuine concern for her because of the difficulty of the situation, and not because we had to hold her hand through hordes of bad guys. More of an emotional attachment. Lee was also sort of a clean slate, and not just because he was the first protagonist in a new story. There really wasn't any forced attachment with him, other than the store in Macon we were pretty much free to play with as much or little attachment as we wanted, without having to feel like we have an obligation or arguments that we should be prioritizing the way Lee would.
I think that also helped making Clementine the player character in S2. I enjoyed the season, but it was very dark. We spent the whole of season 1 protecting her, now we're surviving as her, very quickly alone in the world and before being taken in by strangers. Even then it was still rough, as a new member of the group I was suspicious for a while about how they'd treat her, given that first night.
This was all built up to, though. Clems back, but her involvement has been much smaller than I would have hoped continuing the series, and this attitude that they're trying to instill that I should forget everything that's happened and redirect the relationship built to these new characters seems like a bit much.
With the tattoo, I was like, "$#!@ must've gone sideways..", I challenged her on it, and I refused to go along with turning on her, not because it's precious Clem, but because it sounds like something went really poorly and they'd probably want her head for it. Which wouldn't advantage Javi's family at all. I didn't pull the gun until Javi did it automatically after what happened with Gabe. Then it was an easy choice. But it's not because 'omg it's Clem!'.
Same thing at the Junkyard ambush. I stayed with Clem to cover Javi's family's retreat more than to protect Clem. She was protecting his family. And at the town, I had Javi shoot first, mainly because I didn't trust the other townspeople not to hand Javi over in exchange. So I didn't give them the chance. Clem's suggestions haven't all been about benefitting Clem.
That moment when you care about a random stranger little girl that held you hostage than your family and girlfriend
Really strongly disagree with the idea Clem shouldn't have been there. That's what's really cool about this season, playing a new character off my old character. Been asking for something like that for a while in games. It's new.
My only problems are in how short the episodes have been and how they wasted Jane/Kenny, especially Jane.
I think the main reason we're not as emotionally attached to the family is a. we didn't get to spend enough time with them before they started killing them off (episodes too short), and b. they killed the most likable (Mariana) and started the deathmarch to save the most interesting (Kate) so early while we're basically left with the least likable, least interesting one (Gabe) to look forward with, and then you have Clem. So of course people are going to gravitate to Clem. But it's not because we have new characters v. Clem. There are other factors that make it hard to invest in what's left of Javier and his family.
This was one I went against Clem on. I chose Eleanor because it was faster, with the family in trouble, and because I really like Eleanor so far, so I'm hoping Javi can grow that relationship, since he now has a romantic option other than his sister-in-law. Hope we get to potentially see that play out.
Yeah It's not like it was always "'It's because of Clem". I didn't trust the exchanging Javi thing. Also I wanted to go with the family until Clem said we can buy them time and kill them before they come back. Clem gave here and there really good tips I didn't consider (sometimes though you don't know where Telltale is forcing you to go with your "choices". I also wanted to take the gun until Javi did it. I don't know. Maybe Clem is like a npc tutorial in this game giving good tips.
I still kinda have this feeling "It's Clem I have to side with her". I wished I could delete my memories to Clem and play this game as if I never knew here.
Agreed completely, other than Gabe. I don't really like Carl in the central fiction, and Gabe's mirroring Carl too much. But otherwise.
I completely feel out of place as Javier also. I just wanna protect clementine, I even named my daughter after her. I love Clem and I wish we could play as her instead. I feel like telltale just wanted to make it so newcomers could play too, but from the choices I've seen everyone making, it looks like we are the majority. Please telltale let me be Clem again?!
I had Javi lie for her, mainly because the guy had just tried to kill them and I didn't want the town to turn around and try to execute them. Surprised how that resulted, though.
True, that's probably why I don't replay TTG games much.. It's fun while you're flying blind, but then if the choices don't differentiate enough, it's hard to get into alternate play throughs.
wow. Clementine is a pretty name though like Kat and others said
Hopefully the focus was more on Javi in the first two episodes for plot and the purpose of setting up his character. With most of that out of the way now AND the story finally becoming really relevant to Clem, this paves the way for a more equal focus
That's a lot easier said than done especially when us, the player, has an emotional attachment to Clementine who we've known for years VS. Javier's family that we've known for 1 hour. You can't just give us a character an say "here, you're in his shoes now care about everything he cares about then pick every logical reason." Just isn't possible when Clementine is around.
Telltale Games should have reconsidered this. In some cases (based on the percentages), players will make choices that go against what Javier would otherwise do, and instead be in favor of what Clementine would rather have done, irrespective of what they would normally choose to do. However, this is to be expected in a series where players have grown accustomed to a particular character. Players will naturally gravitate towards that character, who they have come to know and love. Clementine being that character, the percentages are likely to stay in her favor from here on out. Javier's introduction to the universe of The Walking Dead was poorly executed, given that Clementine is featured as a supporting role which has involvement in majority of the story. Therefore, some players will have a bias concerning what to do in tense situations that may present themselves, due to the presence of a returning character who they have seen grow up over the span of 4 years, like Clementine.
YES
To be completely honest, The Walking Dead: A New Frontier would have acted better as a standalone miniseries, that leads up to the continuation of Clementine's story (namely, The Walking Dead: Season Three), where the player regains control of her in dramatic fashion (or at least I would prefer that). Instead, the writers thought that it was best to include Clementine in Javier's story, in which she plays a huge role to the progression of the story, and players who have been with the series from the beginning are more likely to be bias in their choices. Now mind you, I won't compromise my morals to please Clementine's now cynical lifestyle, which is the exact opposite of how Lee raised her and how I played as her, but I take it that most players would completely disregard humanity for the sake of her, even Javier's own family.
Lets be real, The New Frontier did not need Clem. It should have been two different stories and seasons to please everyone. Javier gets the spotlight for one season, and in actual season 3, clementine gets her own spotlight. The new frontier should gave waited. I have no idea what telltale producers where thinking and why they thought it was a good idea when writing this stuff. They had to have realized it's fucked up when playing it. They could have even made Javier have one playable episode in ANF, then clem, then Javier, then clem, if they really wanted to keep clem in ANF, but this really isn't season 3.
Yes, I was talking with my sister about this as we played the game too. Set up the New Frontier and settle Javier's family issues and possibly his relationship to David and the survivors from Prescott.
Would also make the Clem/Javier friendship/rivalry more interesting as it would be two characters that we had grown to know independently.
You took the words right out of my mouth! Telltale Games lured in unsuspecting individuals (like myself) with the promise of Clementine being a playable character, for what we now know is all for like 5-10 minutes depending, in flashback scenes of all things. If Telltale would have taken the approach of Tales From The Borderlands, where we had control of two characters throughout our journey, then it could have made for better storytelling, and immersed us in the experience more than it has, at least for me.
I can't remember who it was, but I think Clementine said something like "You remind me of someone I knew" in Season 2. Am I wrong ? Or did she say something like that. Was it with Pete or Luke or something ? Idk
Talking to Nick in the shed, Clem can say "You remind me of someone I knew. He was always screwing up too." Talking about Ben, obviously.