Clementine is "The Walking Dead"
If this is the new "Walking Dead" Telltale can keep it. I don't want to be part of it. Sacrafice one/if not the best/ female character ever for a stereotypically guy just broke my heart. I really don't think Telltale understands the bond they created between Clem and us players. They don't understand how we are feeling. They can't realize that we feel betrayed by them. I really hope they read our feedback and understand that this game may been even half way good, but not as a "Walking Dead" sequel. Clementine is "Walking Dead". And it's your fault for it Telltale. You gave us the best character ever and now you want to take her away from us? Just jank my heart out instead, I will feel less pain by it.
You could have made this a new franchise and try something new but please don't take Clementine from us. Please understand us wanting to protect the girl we fell in love with, the best character you gave to us. The love you made possible. And now you trying to take her away just makes me cry at this point of writing. And I'm crown man who never spread a tear for Titanic.
Please feel free to experiment oround in the world of the walking dead, but as a different brand and let us keep Clem in the main "Walking Dead". This is a computer game and I feel as if you really took away one of my best friends from me. This is actually a compliment of how good your storry telling skills are. As a company I agree with you to test new stuff. To go ways that take a risk. But sacraficing Clementine is not the way to do it. Explore new options, if you called this "The Walking Dead: New Frontier Season one" I could maybe even like Javier and feel that the story is playable. But this?
In the end I can only ask you this:
Please let us keep Clem.
P.S. this is no rant. This is a contribution on how good you guys are. On how talented your writers were. Even though their will always be tention in the playerbase about how you develope storys but that's normal. And no matter what will happen. Thank you for Lee and Clementine and the bond you created. Thanks.
Comments
Lots to say here bare with me,please. I want / need to play as Clem in the present too. I feel almost the same as you in every way. But I like this new story from TT however far from our choices it may feel to us. I can see and feel,Every choice I've made reflected in Clem this year. Thats not an easy thing to do. I may not like what I see but I respect this attention to detail shown. Will I stop playing if Clem dies? I didn't for Lee. The choices we make will decide her fate. I have more faith in that now. TWD ain't My Little Pony and even there actions have real effects on others! If I have to replay everything I will but its clear to me. Whatever happens to Clem is on us.
true poetry.
Don't speak for every fan. I like playing as Javier...a lot! And i played the first two seasons.
Clementine is still with us. She's not dead and eventhough we're not playing as her, I feel like she's getting a lot of good gameplay. Ive only played episode one so far, but I'm loving her as much as ever.
If telltale just gave clementine a good amount more time as a playable character with relevance I think the upset clementine fans would be ok. I like Javier but I understand why people would not like clem being reduced to a minor supporting character with 5 minutes of playtime.
No idea if you actually took the time to read my full post or not but I said it's okey for them to expirience new ideas and branches and that they have to do that as a company
They have to evolve and trie new things. And I totally understand that their are people who don't feel as connected to Clementine as others and thats totally normal. Everybody is different and Telltale can never achive 100% satisfaction for all. At the same time if they would have just called this thing a test without Clem and introduced a sperat story line apart from it, they wouldn't be facing what they are now. This story seperated from the original, maybe even cool. But the way it is me (and others to but ofc not everybody) can't bond to Javier. At this point I don't even care what will happen to him, as long as I know Clem will be okey. This story as a own would work way better as the fiasco we have now. And looking at the wide band of choices made (even though Clem f'ed up alot) chose that a big playerbase is behind her.
At the end it is totally Telltale's decission and I can live with whatever they decide. My wallet will decide along with their decission and that's okey. They still have Borderlands, Game of Thrones and The Wolf among us wich I'll continue to play and new ones coming up as well. All I'm saying is I love Clem and hate the way they treat her atm. She deserves to be more as a sidekick. And don't get me wrong at the end I'll still love Telltale for Season 1+2
So I don't know if you read my post and we are only miscomunicating or if you just read my entry. But I'm clearly not speaking for all, nobody will ever be able to speak for all. That is impossible. Even on free beer some will disagree
The way it's going who knows how long though.
Yup, agree, 100%. Javier is fine, but I'm just playing him as an extension of Lee. When it comes down to 'Any Character' vs Clementine, then my adopted daughter wins, every time. I'll gladly sacrifice Javier's fam if it means keeping Clem safe. It's like, sorry Conrad, I've known you barely five minutes, whereas I've protected this girl for years now. ANYONE who threatens her gets a bullet.
My point is, people are getting too obsessed over Clem. I've played both of the first two seasons, multiple times and I care about Clem... a lot! But people need to adapt. To hate a character just because he's not someone else? That's a horrible reason for not liking someone. There was a time when no one knew who the hell Clementine was until she got the chance to grow. Now no one one wants to give Javier the same chance and just want to cast him in to her shadow. It's not fair to him as a character. But like you said, it's your decision. I love Clem, but her not being the main character is not one of the things i'd list among my problems with the season.
I personally got so attached to Clem that I don't care anymore for anyone else except her.I wish we got to play longer as her.Having Javier is fine but my fear is what if Clem is gone in Episode 4 or 5?I don't think I could take that.All the nostalgic moments and then seeing her go/die would just break my heart.Seeing someone you were so attached to and thought her everything dissapear from our lives.Feels like it wasn't worth playing the first 2 seasons just to get attached to someone and then seeing them die off or whatever might happen.
I really hope that doesn't happen but the way its going there is a possibility....
Yeah... I feel you.
Well it's not like I'm not giving Javier a chance (I loved his relation with Mariana (and Walking Dead like everybody dies I care about)) but I just can't bond with him. Several reasons:
And like I said, in an alternative branch Javier might even have a chance (if they develope some character for him outside his stereotype) I think I could bond with him. But the classic "Walking Dead" is Clementine and always be here. Without her I have no reason to play the Walking dead anymore and I wont. That's just a fact for me.
The mistake they made wasn't to try something new, that was okey. It was to try to replace Clem instead of just doing something new outside of her story. A "Walkind Dead Clmentine story line" and any other "Walkind Dead: New Frontier Season 1" or whatever they want to try and it would work. As it is they are just facing the bias we have vs trying something new.
i think shes gonna die
Feel you. Same.
Clementine is to TWDG what Rick Grimes is to TWD. She's that freaking important to the game and TTG pushing her to the side to make room for Javier is both tone deaf and disappointing.
Just think about how Rick's presence dominates TWD, even in the later issues of the comics (where he is much less of an action hero and delegates more of his leadership responsbilities). While it's very likely that Kirkman will one day kill off Rick, TWD is very much Rick's story and the other characters, though important, are supporting cast to Rick. He's the "Everyman" that the audience relates to and he's who we identify with, root for, root against, feel for, and fear for. You can't just remove him from the story without changing what it's about, for better or worse, you dance with the one that brought you.
We've seen Rick go from waking up in a coma during the zombie apocalypse to making real strives (amidst setbacks) toward rebuilding civilization. The comics and TV show are as much about his journey as they are about a group of survivors surviving the zombie apocalypse, precisely because the one constant throughout it all has been Rick and his struggles to keep those he cares about safe.
TWD is as much Rick's story as it is a story about those around him (despite his conclusion that "we are the walking dead!"), and to suddenly push him to the side after all of these years of following his trials and tribulations would be insulting to the fanbase (and make ZERO narrative sense).
This is what I don't understand about TTG. Clementine is a GREAT character. We've started the series with her, we've seen her grow (for better and worse) in the middle of a hellish new reality, and she is who many of us care about.
I will grant that there are problems with her as a video game character, because she is not as able to take action or change people's opinions as an adult would be, but the Clem in ANF is getting old enough now that her skills and wisdom as a survivor would be apparent to anybody living in TWD universe. Just as Negan rightfully deems Carl a badass/future serial killer, Clem is not your typical teenager, and now that we're past S2's bad writing (and the ridiculousness of adults asking her what to do), TTG could have done some really interesting things with her as the main character (and maybe featured Javier a la Tales from the Borderlands).
Instead, it appears they are taking the lazy (and greedy) way out and pushing her to the background so they can offer a "fresh start" to new players with Javier.
This is so wrong on so many levels. Clem is a very interesting character narratively (her growth and overall character arc is as dynamic and as interesting as Rick's), and she's a WONDERFUL example of a female lead in a video game who offers a good role model for men and women that shows that women can be tough and capable, even young women who might be ignored by the adults around her!
I honestly think they just weren't up to the challenge of writing a believable story featuring her, and they thought Javier would appeal to a broader base of players (male, hispanic, good looking, old and strong enough to avoid players feeling gimped like they did sometimes when playing as Clem), so they took the easy way out and just wrote Clem into a supporting role in her own freaking series!!!
This is like following Rick in TWD for years and then suddenly the narrative focus shifts away from Rick and is geared toward some other character like Paul Monroe (Jesus). Maybe Jesus is an interesting character. He's certainly bad ass and more of an action hero than Rick is (at least later in the comics). I bet he'd appeal to younger readers more than old man Rick (with his cane and missing hand). But, we don't see Kirkman doing that because he at least realizes that Rick Grimes is the main character of his narrative for the time being.
Why the hell TTG saw fit to push Clem into the background in her own story is mystifying to me. The story is as much about her as it is about the ZA. We've seen her grow and be scarred (literally and emotionally) by what has happened to her and now they want to shift the focus away from her to some generic-ass character like Javier that the marketing people probably dreamed up as the "ideal" character for this IP?
Such a huge letdown. I want to see where Clem's story goes. How many of the loose ends of her tale are going to be wrapped up. With Rick, I can see where Kirkman has taken the character and can make some educated guesses about how and where his story might finally come to an end. With Clem, I was able to do this in S2, but now after seeing how they are marginalizing her in favor of some shitty replacement, I fear we're never going to get closure for all the things in her arc that still need to be resolved (like will she ever find a way to cope with losing all these people she loves, will she find a way to forgive herself for their loss, realize it wasn't her fault, find a way to exist in this harsh new world that doesn't damn her to the extremes of Jane or Kenny's flaws/etc)
TTG, you need to wake up. She's the main character of your series and you've turned her into supporting cast all for expediency's sake. It's really sad to see, and puzzling why you'd do it (beyond some marketing people or lazy writers who thought it was the best way to take the series). How about you finish her story first and take us where we need to go to have some closure with her before you introduce us to new characters like Javier and force us to play as him while we watch Clem getting the short shrift!
I couldn't agree more with you.
I totally agree with this post.
I do like Javier but A New Frontier should be a separate story and we should play as Clementine in the main entries (Season 3).
I hope I do enjoy the rest of A New Frontier and I hope that we get a proper Season 3 with Clementine as the lead
I thought the whole point of the walking dead telltale game was to show Clementines life. Lee was just a kickstarter, but after his death we would get to mold Clementine into a character with her choices. I felt robbed of this. Espcially since the Clementine I met in New Frontier acted nothing like I wanted her too. Sure she lost people she cared about, and that can make someone cold. But still, she seems a bit to cold. My Clem wouldn't act like that. And I know it may be hard to input multiple clem reactions in the scenes (or is it?)
Honestly if we won't be playing clementine anymore, she can go off and die for all I care. I loved thee, and you left me. Whats the point.......?
There have been people on this board advocating for Clem to be killed off. These people are morons. This is something that goes way, way beyond "plot armor," or whatever dopey excuse these folks like to fling around. Clem IS Telltale's Walking Dead, just as Rick Grimes is Kirkman's Walking Dead. Terminate either of them, and the show's over.
Plot armor is a dumb concept. Arguably, all characters have plot armor until they die, that's how a story goes.
Obsessed Clem fans everywhere. TWD isnt just about Clem. Its about people trying to survive. Clem is better off as an NPC anyway. Her character is already way better than season 2.
I disagree. I love playing as Clem more than seeing her as an NPC.
YES!
As I said in a post on December the 8th:
Maybe ANF is their final season and Telltale wants to kill Clementine off?
This, sooo much. I'm sorry but people are way too obsessed with Clementine and it's kinda creepy.
I am not a fan of clementine . As long as the story is good Ill be playing it
See I agree with this, and if I played I'd probably do the same thing, always protecting Clem. But this is the main reason I think Clem shouldn't have been in this season if TT wanted this to be Javier's story. When it's Clem vs Javier's family the player will most likely choose Clem. Everyone else doesn't have a chance. They used Clem purely as bait for people to be interested, now other characters won't really have a chance because the player will be too focused on Clem. Trying to protect her.
I don't mind if we aren't able to play as her in the present, I just think we need more and longer flashbacks (maybe they'll surprise and give us exactly that); I know it sucks but I think we should be greatful we get to play her for 5 minutes let alone at all. I understand the complaints because they are very real reasons to be upset.
NEVER SAY THAT!!! That's my baby girl you're talking about.
I just joined these forums last few days and im surprised how non toxic this community is compared to others but getting to the point.
Right now I would like to forget about TWD season 3 or The New Frontier whatever you want to call it and wait until episode 3 but i cant get it out of my mind what I have witnessed a few days ago.I dont know if im more afraid that I dont have control over making Clem survive/protecting her or the little amount of time we got to play as her and didnt accomplish anything.Still I wish I could forget about it all until episode 3 but not keeping busy with college out for Christmas is kind of hard so all thoughts go to that straight away.
Not true. Take Kai Lang during the citidel mission in mass effet 3. As he was fighting Thane Shepard and crew just stood there and watched because the plot demanded it. There was no reason why Shepard and his crew couldn't have helped Thane out other than plot armor. The plot demanded they sit and watch, so they sat and watched. Eventhough there was no logical reason why they were doing so. That's plot armor.
Yeah, it really is, I'm just too obsessed with Lee.
I actually like to play Javier more than Clementine (while playing her in the flashbacks the same time) and not because I like him more, but hell, I just missed protecting Clementine instead of playing as her like in Season 1, I really want Clementine to have the main focus but it's not necessary to make her the only playable character.
Let me "shorten" this. I want Clementine to be the main focus of the game but not to play as her, it's just an opinion and maybe alot will disagree with me but wasn't she the main focus in Season 1 (same as Lee)? Sharing the spotlight is not that bad you people just overreact.
Hitler discusses season 3
This is why I wish they never killed Lee, because this community wouldn't be so divided.
Even if they had helped, the plot could just make them miss stormtrooper style. Or he could use that biotic bubble thing to protect himself.
Is plot armor defined by the logical circumstances? I see people use the accusation all the time.
Show, game, and comic spoilers
Well said. I've said it before, but this is more akin to making Fear The Walking Dead season 6 of The Walking Dead. Switching out characters we have a deep investment with for brand new ones, and defending it by including the old ones as lesser characters. The games up until this, the show, the comics, they've all been very personal journeys with the central characters personal growth and adaptation to the world. The good, the bad, the struggles and triumphs. That's why this new direction rubs me the wrong way.
We get a glimpse of who Rick was, but the beginning of the show and comics is very much him being thrust into this strange new world, processing what's happening. We've seen the stories of the people around him, but the focus has been on him as a person, his evolution as a character, his adaptation to the world, what he's compromised about himself and why he's done it. It's been a personal journey.
Lee isn't much different. He became a extension of the player in much the same way Rick became an extension of the viewer. Obviously the nature of these games, placing emphasis on choice and relationships, makes it a bit more personal. But Lee was the perfect character to bring us into the world. The game starts on the way to prison, essentially leaving his life behind. Before the episodes finished its established Lee has nothing left. His old life ruined, his family killed in the outbreak, we're left with a character that has no predefined attachments or priorities other than the ones we, as the player, are making. The game was designed to ultimately invoke a protective instinct towards her, but the characters were handled so well it happened organically for a lot of people. She was sympathetic, vulnerable but generally not a nuisance that needed to be saved every 5 minutes. It resonated well with many people, to the point where a lot of people who've played the games hold her character in very high regard, and not just among characters in the games she's in.
Season 2 took a different route, placing in control of her. But I imagine many behaved in a way fitting to the first season, seeing as how a major theme in that season was shaping the person she'd become. From the things we were willing to let her see, to the values and ideals held in trying to set an example for her, all the while watching her grow as a character. Season 2 very much continued this growth, though the comfort of being someone who could protect her was gone. In the last episode of season 1, I had the luxury of giving zero shits as I mowed my way down a walker infested street to try and save her, because after all the experiences we had, saving her took priority over my wellbeing. The stakes were raised for her, and it was a more harrowing, if equally tragic, experience. But it was built on the foundation of the first season, and ultimately focused on her continued development.
ANF tries to present us with seeing who she is now, which is a complete departure from the themes of the past seasons and ultimately a task that really can't be done to satisfactory due to the extent of the time we've had with her, she'll ultimately be confined to a very general representation of who we knew, if that.
I just think its a bad idea for a series.
I agree with you that Clementine should be the main focus all the time but from episode 1 and 2 i didnt see it that way in ANF.It seemed Javier was the focus and Clementine just a supporting character which really upset me.Honestly I've watched so many playthroughs of episode 1 and 2 now but yet I personally am still in unbelief what im watching whether this is actually real what I see.I keep rewatching the parts in episode 1 and 2 where Clem was kind or smiled and reminds me of the previous seasons.Those moments feel like it was just a few hours ago,telling her to keep her hair short.