Where is the guarantee? I remember a scene not much longer than twenty minutes before this where I tried to make a trade for Francine and an entire community was destroyed regardless.
And you couldn't be more right.Considering you are playing as Javier,it is only natural to betray her.Almost guaranteed medical help for you… morer lover/partner and reuniting with your almost lover or whatever in exchange for a lying kid that only does whatever benefits her and relies on you to defend her and lie for her.Hell yeah.
Conrad was harsh and a bit too drastic with his ways,but he was 100% right.
Well you think she became egoist and a liar, I don't. Let's just agree to disagree then.
I perfectly understand why she don't want them to see her, especially since AJ is suspiciously absent beside the flashbacks and her facial expressions when Jesus said they took over Richmond.
I don't want to burst your bubble,but that was just to make her appear again with the group.Of course not everyone is bad.Ava seems cool so maybe she was talking about her.
I betrayed her in my game. Because it made sense. Javier can do anything for Kate. Of course, he would trade a stranger for his family.
It hurt me but it was right choice. Hey, at least Clem showed the middle finger to those assholes!
Besides, you can pick the option "She's our friend." when Max asked who she is to Javi. Javi then said, "That's why the way we treat her right now doesn't sit very well with me." followed by acknowledged expression by Clem. Clementine will remember that.
And you couldn't be more right.Considering you are playing as Javier,it is only natural to betray her.Almost guaranteed medical help for you… morer lover/partner and reuniting with your almost lover or whatever in exchange for a lying kid that only does whatever benefits her and relies on you to defend her and lie for her.Hell yeah.
Conrad was harsh and a bit too drastic with his ways,but he was 100% right.
Well you think she became egoist and a liar, I don't. Let's just agree to disagree then.
I perfectly understand why she don't want them to … moresee her, especially since AJ is suspiciously absent beside the flashbacks and her facial expressions when Jesus said they took over Richmond.
Where is the guarantee? I remember a scene not much longer than twenty minutes before this where I tried to make a trade for Francine and an entire community was destroyed regardless.
* Be me.
* Bury Marianna fresh out of fighting back against her killers with one person who stayed to help.
* Clementine helps and offers … morecondolences.
* Go back to Prescott without anyone following.
* Suddenly New Frontiermen everywhere as if they knew where we went.
* Say they want Javier to answer to justice, saying he's to blame, and use Francine as hostage. Conrad begs him to give himself up for her safety.
* Agree to give self up for his wife and to make sure nobody else gets hurt.
* Completely unexpectedly get screwed over and at the end of Badger's gun.
* Clementine saves life by opening fire.
* Escape but Francine gets shot because the guys with rifles at the top have the reactions of fucking turtles.
* Town goes to hell, escape with crew.
* "You're the reason they came to Prescott in the first place! She's dead because of you."
* Brings up personal past, calling Javi a washed up cheat, completely ignoring the fact he just… [view original content]
Unlike a lot of people, I actually didn't shoot him because of Clementine. I took the shot because he just took Javier's nephew hostage and was threatening to shoot him. For me, it made sense to take the shot. That being said, I feel guilty about it. And I'm actually glad that I do. It's been a while since a Telltale choice actually made me feel guilty.
If you ask me, that choice actually is a relatively difficult one. The problem is that the Clementine bias makes it an easy call for pretty much everybody. If you try to put that bias aside, it actually isn't that bad of a choice.
If you were to replace Clementine in that scene with Tripp or Eleanor, it would probably be a lot more split. The situation itself is fine-- the character used is not.
Your Javier valued Clementine's freedom over having a higher chance to save Kate's life and to find shelter for himself, Gabe, Kate, Tripp, Eleanor and Conrad.
glad i wasn't the only one who thought that way, in the moment i felt that's what javier would probably do the "trade" for his family/kate but i'll admit i felt pretty bad when gabe started yelling at me lol
you missed the point abattoir and dont you blame clem cause she shot that
guy that was an accident you forget she had 3 guns she had a shot gun her hand
gun and javi's gun she ran out of bullets for the shot gun her gun had bullets that
wouldnt fire i think when it came to it she accidentally pulled out javi's gun when
she shot the guy and did you see her face so pure accident so she had no
intention of killing him.
i think were beating a dead horse here.. looks like some people will side with clementine no matter what. they probably think it was okay of her to shoot that innocent man in face while trying to impress javier with her badassery.
It's true that it makes sense to choose Conrad's plan from Javi's perspective but then it doesn't when you look at how Conrad goes about it.
Imagine the scene if instead of pulling a gun on Gabe, Conrad instead keeps the gun on Clementine while talking to Javi. The way Telltale set it up, it was guaranteed that 95% of people would choose to kill Conrad.
There also should have been an option to talk Conrad out of the plan. Also, Conrad should have only pulled the gun on Gabe if the player chose for Javi to pull the gun on Conrad. Things like this are the only way to prevent the massive amount of players who chose to kill Conrad. It still would have been high simply because of the love of Clem but it wouldn't have been 95%
To be honest I kinda figured out that David was going to be the Leader, obviously I wasnt 100% positive and didnt shoot Conrad solely on a hunch, but its also Telltale, it wont matter. Obviously taking Clem would give a higher chance for medical help, however because David is the leader, she's going to get it anyway.
His plan was good and I would've executed it but he threatened Gabe, that was unacceptable. Like you said, Javi (atleast mine) cares more about his family so he won't let anybody put a gun to his nephew's head.
I agree. I had Javier shoot Conrad, yet I didn't do it for Clementine, but for Gabe. I don't like Gabriel, but he's part of Javier's family.
Conrad explicitly told a Javi that "nobody's got to shoot anybody!" Taking his nephew hostage was just a means to get Javier to agree with the most pragmatic route.
Or did you kill Conrad so as to avoid angering Gabe?
I agree. I had Javier shoot Conrad, yet I didn't do it for Clementine, but for Gabe. I don't like Gabriel, but he's part of Javier's family.… more Telltale has failed so far to make Javier's catalyst function between the player and Clementine work well because the two are just too friendly for it to be believable.
He can call her a friend several times. Ok... why, exactly? They met a few days ago under less than friendly circumstances, yet they seem to be best buddies at the end of Episode 2. Javier often just feels like a means to help players bond with Clem more directly. But it makes no sense at all in the story of the game for him to treat Clementine as players of the previous Seasons would.
Have people forgotten that Conrad will Literally shoot Javier and Gabe if you do nothing? When I found this out I have no regrets of killing that bastards. It's always "me,me,me" with him. I'm not selling Clementine out, plain and simple.
But Conrad explicitly said that "nobody's got to shoot anybody!" He took Gabe hostage because he thought that would get Javier to agree to the most pragmatic plan, that would in turn benefit Kate; he wasn't planning on shooting!
I agree that the decision was difficult! Perhaps it would have been more effective for the majority of players if Tripp or Eleanor had been placed instead, but perhaps not, since a lot of players do not even care for them anyway.
Unlike a lot of people, I actually didn't shoot him because of Clementine. I took the shot because he just took Javier's nephew hostage and … morewas threatening to shoot him. For me, it made sense to take the shot. That being said, I feel guilty about it. And I'm actually glad that I do. It's been a while since a Telltale choice actually made me feel guilty.
If you ask me, that choice actually is a relatively difficult one. The problem is that the Clementine bias makes it an easy call for pretty much everybody. If you try to put that bias aside, it actually isn't that bad of a choice.
If you were to replace Clementine in that scene with Tripp or Eleanor, it would probably be a lot more split. The situation itself is fine-- the character used is not.
Honestly...I don't really regret "betraying" Clementine...never thought I'd say that...She isn't gonna die and I'm sure we'll be "buddy buddy" again by seasons ends, just watch.
But I don't blame people for shooting him. It's Telltale's failure at making choices. Seriously, you're pitting someone you basically just met to Clementine....Clementine!!
she shouldn't have even been in the new frontier (the group) but they killed that choice off right after the flash back! "They were very persuasive" lol ok.
What I've learned reading this thread is that people, Conrad included, are way too frivolous in taking hostages. Conrad had made a valid point, and I was seriously mulling it over until he put a gun to Gabe's head. I don't care that he said, "Nobody needs to shoot anybody" or whatever. If you bring a hostage into any situation you also bring it automatically from zero to one hundred. Doing so, Conrad asserted a certain power over me which conveyed, "Make the logical choice, or else I'll kill your family". Someone that bargains like that doesn't deserve words, a bullet suffices.
Everyone is assuming if Clementine is given up then the New Frontier will be more open to negotiation. However all bets are off when you say, "I helped you, now you owe me". The New Frontier could have been angered at that power play and, since they have bigger numbers, reasonably killed everyone on the spot. And would you really want to have Clementine potentially killed? Because the New Frontier could have totally just shot her.
* Be me.
* Bury Marianna fresh out of fighting back against her killers with one person who stayed to help.
* Clementine helps and offers … morecondolences.
* Go back to Prescott without anyone following.
* Suddenly New Frontiermen everywhere as if they knew where we went.
* Say they want Javier to answer to justice, saying he's to blame, and use Francine as hostage. Conrad begs him to give himself up for her safety.
* Agree to give self up for his wife and to make sure nobody else gets hurt.
* Completely unexpectedly get screwed over and at the end of Badger's gun.
* Clementine saves life by opening fire.
* Escape but Francine gets shot because the guys with rifles at the top have the reactions of fucking turtles.
* Town goes to hell, escape with crew.
* "You're the reason they came to Prescott in the first place! She's dead because of you."
* Brings up personal past, calling Javi a washed up cheat, completely ignoring the fact he just… [view original content]
His plan was good and I would've executed it but he threatened Gabe, that was unacceptable. Like you said, Javi (atleast mine) cares more about his family so he won't let anybody put a gun to his nephew's head.
Have people forgotten that Conrad will Literally shoot Javier and Gabe if you do nothing? When I found this out I have no regrets of killing that bastards. It's always "me,me,me" with him. I'm not selling Clementine out, plain and simple.
* Be me.
* Bury Marianna fresh out of fighting back against her killers with one person who stayed to help.
* Clementine helps and offers … morecondolences.
* Go back to Prescott without anyone following.
* Suddenly New Frontiermen everywhere as if they knew where we went.
* Say they want Javier to answer to justice, saying he's to blame, and use Francine as hostage. Conrad begs him to give himself up for her safety.
* Agree to give self up for his wife and to make sure nobody else gets hurt.
* Completely unexpectedly get screwed over and at the end of Badger's gun.
* Clementine saves life by opening fire.
* Escape but Francine gets shot because the guys with rifles at the top have the reactions of fucking turtles.
* Town goes to hell, escape with crew.
* "You're the reason they came to Prescott in the first place! She's dead because of you."
* Brings up personal past, calling Javi a washed up cheat, completely ignoring the fact he just… [view original content]
But Conrad explicitly said that "nobody's got to shoot anybody!" He took Gabe hostage because he thought that would get Javier to agree to t… morehe most pragmatic plan, that would in turn benefit Kate; he wasn't planning on shooting!
I agree that the decision was difficult! Perhaps it would have been more effective for the majority of players if Tripp or Eleanor had been placed instead, but perhaps not, since a lot of players do not even care for them anyway.
The difference between both scenarios is that, with Alvin Junior inside Richmond, with Clementine outside, and with Javier oblivious to the toddler's existence, we will not be able to take him with us were we to escape the settlement at some point.
What I've learned reading this thread is that people, Conrad included, are way too frivolous in taking hostages. Conrad had made a valid poi… morent, and I was seriously mulling it over until he put a gun to Gabe's head. I don't care that he said, "Nobody needs to shoot anybody" or whatever. If you bring a hostage into any situation you also bring it automatically from zero to one hundred. Doing so, Conrad asserted a certain power over me which conveyed, "Make the logical choice, or else I'll kill your family". Someone that bargains like that doesn't deserve words, a bullet suffices.
Everyone is assuming if Clementine is given up then the New Frontier will be more open to negotiation. However all bets are off when you say, "I helped you, now you owe me". The New Frontier could have been angered at that power play and, since they have bigger numbers, reasonably killed everyone on the spot. And would you really want to have Clementine potentially killed? Because the New Frontier could have totally just shot her.
Comments
Finally someone pointing it out.
Where is the guarantee? I remember a scene not much longer than twenty minutes before this where I tried to make a trade for Francine and an entire community was destroyed regardless.
Well you think she became egoist and a liar, I don't. Let's just agree to disagree then.
I perfectly understand why she don't want them to see her, especially since AJ is suspiciously absent beside the flashbacks and her facial expressions when Jesus said they took over Richmond.
but "he" its you.
i dont say that this decision is wrong. but i dont like it
Besides, you can pick the option "She's our friend." when Max asked who she is to Javi. Javi then said, "That's why the way we treat her right now doesn't sit very well with me." followed by acknowledged expression by Clem.
Clementine will remember that.
Btw, sorry for my bad English. :P
I understand why she doesn't want to see them.It's quite logical.I'm jusy saying that I don't like her actual personality.
That's a totally different context.
Well the Eleanor or Trip seems to be pretty close. Could change if there's another revelation about Eleanor in next episodes.
His behavior there strongly reminded me of Kenny after he thought Jane killed AJ.
If it ends with the same outcome whatever you pick, how is that different?
You don't know how it will end.
Unlike a lot of people, I actually didn't shoot him because of Clementine. I took the shot because he just took Javier's nephew hostage and was threatening to shoot him. For me, it made sense to take the shot. That being said, I feel guilty about it. And I'm actually glad that I do. It's been a while since a Telltale choice actually made me feel guilty.
If you ask me, that choice actually is a relatively difficult one. The problem is that the Clementine bias makes it an easy call for pretty much everybody. If you try to put that bias aside, it actually isn't that bad of a choice.
If you were to replace Clementine in that scene with Tripp or Eleanor, it would probably be a lot more split. The situation itself is fine-- the character used is not.
glad i wasn't the only one who thought that way, in the moment i felt that's what javier would probably do the "trade" for his family/kate but i'll admit i felt pretty bad when gabe started yelling at me lol
you missed the point abattoir and dont you blame clem cause she shot that
guy that was an accident you forget she had 3 guns she had a shot gun her hand
gun and javi's gun she ran out of bullets for the shot gun her gun had bullets that
wouldnt fire i think when it came to it she accidentally pulled out javi's gun when
she shot the guy and did you see her face so pure accident so she had no
intention of killing him.
It's true that it makes sense to choose Conrad's plan from Javi's perspective but then it doesn't when you look at how Conrad goes about it.
Imagine the scene if instead of pulling a gun on Gabe, Conrad instead keeps the gun on Clementine while talking to Javi. The way Telltale set it up, it was guaranteed that 95% of people would choose to kill Conrad.
There also should have been an option to talk Conrad out of the plan. Also, Conrad should have only pulled the gun on Gabe if the player chose for Javi to pull the gun on Conrad. Things like this are the only way to prevent the massive amount of players who chose to kill Conrad. It still would have been high simply because of the love of Clem but it wouldn't have been 95%
To be honest I kinda figured out that David was going to be the Leader, obviously I wasnt 100% positive and didnt shoot Conrad solely on a hunch, but its also Telltale, it wont matter. Obviously taking Clem would give a higher chance for medical help, however because David is the leader, she's going to get it anyway.
His plan was good and I would've executed it but he threatened Gabe, that was unacceptable. Like you said, Javi (atleast mine) cares more about his family so he won't let anybody put a gun to his nephew's head.
Conrad explicitly told a Javi that "nobody's got to shoot anybody!" Taking his nephew hostage was just a means to get Javier to agree with the most pragmatic route.
Or did you kill Conrad so as to avoid angering Gabe?
Have people forgotten that Conrad will Literally shoot Javier and Gabe if you do nothing? When I found this out I have no regrets of killing that bastards. It's always "me,me,me" with him. I'm not selling Clementine out, plain and simple.
But Conrad explicitly said that "nobody's got to shoot anybody!" He took Gabe hostage because he thought that would get Javier to agree to the most pragmatic plan, that would in turn benefit Kate; he wasn't planning on shooting!
I agree that the decision was difficult! Perhaps it would have been more effective for the majority of players if Tripp or Eleanor had been placed instead, but perhaps not, since a lot of players do not even care for them anyway.
I'm sorry but the New Frontier don't seem like the kind of people to give help just because we give a member back. So Conrad is kill.
Honestly...I don't really regret "betraying" Clementine...never thought I'd say that...She isn't gonna die and I'm sure we'll be "buddy buddy" again by seasons ends, just watch.
But I don't blame people for shooting him. It's Telltale's failure at making choices. Seriously, you're pitting someone you basically just met to Clementine....Clementine!!
she shouldn't have even been in the new frontier (the group) but they killed that choice off right after the flash back! "They were very persuasive" lol ok.
So they don't currently have one of our people who we would be exchanging for someone they believe needs to be brought to justice? .
If he wasn't such an asshole, he wouldn't have died.
What I've learned reading this thread is that people, Conrad included, are way too frivolous in taking hostages. Conrad had made a valid point, and I was seriously mulling it over until he put a gun to Gabe's head. I don't care that he said, "Nobody needs to shoot anybody" or whatever. If you bring a hostage into any situation you also bring it automatically from zero to one hundred. Doing so, Conrad asserted a certain power over me which conveyed, "Make the logical choice, or else I'll kill your family". Someone that bargains like that doesn't deserve words, a bullet suffices.
Everyone is assuming if Clementine is given up then the New Frontier will be more open to negotiation. However all bets are off when you say, "I helped you, now you owe me". The New Frontier could have been angered at that power play and, since they have bigger numbers, reasonably killed everyone on the spot. And would you really want to have Clementine potentially killed? Because the New Frontier could have totally just shot her.
Pulling a gun on Gabe has no lasting consequences.
Murdering Conrad has lasting consequences and is immoral.
Except Conrad was advocating for the reasonable course of action.
You forgot the part in which Conrad saved Javi's life.
Javier doesn't care that much for his family if he values the freedom of Clementine over a higher chance of getting medical help for Kate.
That's not canon.
Neither was Mike letting Clementine crush against the ground.
Yeah, but does that mean people can't play it realistically?
"Reasonable". Right. He lost it. Doesn't really matter since he's going to die anyway. And they managed to get inside Richmond either way.
“What does that even mean! What's the it?”
Exactly my thoughts!
You don't kill people for being assholes, Aron!
Taking hostage to force someone into doing something is immoral too. Just saying.
The difference between both scenarios is that, with Alvin Junior inside Richmond, with Clementine outside, and with Javier oblivious to the toddler's existence, we will not be able to take him with us were we to escape the settlement at some point.
And you also killed somebody.
Totally agree.