I don't know. Javier and his group have no idea what these people are like. Aside from threatening to shoot Javier's nephew, could you morally live with yourself using a young teen as a bargaining chip [who's been helping/saving your neck until then] to a group that might do god knows what to her considering she cut and run? One of them already killed his niece in cold blood and shot Kate, so what's stopping them killing/harming one of their own?
On the other hand, you can argue too Javier might be desperate enough to try anything to save Kate's life and feels pressured into it to protect Gabe, and doesn't actually want to shoot Conrad because he's not a bad guy [despite what he's doing is pretty pricky of him, you understand his actions because of losing his partner]. Even if the plan itself is risky because they had no idea if the Frontier group would kill them on sight or if anything would come of it, if somebody's dying you might take the risk. Whatever way you look at it, it's a split choice not on the player just picking it because 'hey it's Clementine' but something Javier himself can be conflicted over.
It's not even about Clementine. Why do people think that, just because a choice is in favor of Clem, then that automatically means it doesn't make sense for Javier? It's about Conrad putting Gabe at gunpoint. And after what just happened with Mariana, I'd say Javier has more than reason to kill him right there. If Conrad is crazy enough to threaten you and your nephew to make you agree with him, what makes you think he won't do it again? And that next time someone can actually die. The same reasoning can be applied in the choice of "stand and fight" or "go with family". You can choose to stay and kill the guys who nearly wiped out your entire family (while giving them time to run away while you cover for them) instead of taking a risk and let them live when they can come after you again. It's not all. about. Clem.
Yeah, but when people say the reason why they killed him was because he threatened Gabe, then I think it's a justified one. Meanwhile, some people say "it's not realistic" just because that option favors Clem and Javier "just met her". People are not looking at the bigger picture here. Both options are "realistic".
I understand and agree with what you say!
In my case, the plan seemed like it could benefit a larger number of people than the alternativ… moree would. I would've agreed with it even before Conrad pulled a gun on Gabe, and, to be fair, I am tickled that we didn't have the option.
On my second playthrough I chose to give in when Conrad's threatened to kill Gabe and;
I claimed that it was for Kate that I did this (to which Javier adds that Clem isn't family when questioned by Gabe, which is true and makes sense from his perspective)
I told Tripp and Jesus that Conrad was overreacting. (which isn't far from the truth)
I answered Max that she was a friend regardless (and Javier added that it was sorta tearing him apart to do that to her).
I liked the dynamic here even if it wasn't my first choice.
Javier isn't inhumane and he isn't going to barter with a child's life just so Kate may receive some medical attention when we can clearly just walk up there and negotiate. ANF don't shoot first and clearly the waters have been muddied with whatever bad blood has boiled between these misunderstandings which needs to be cleared right away. Clementine is a child and someone who has saved our lives on multiple occasions, even helping us track down our family when Javier could have just been easy walker-food having been tied up and stranded in the middle of nowhere, with no idea on how to get back to his family.
She has shown no zero signs of being some kind of traitor or someone who is feeding us to the New Frontier, so I see no reason to sell her out. Plus the fact that Conrad is clearly losing it, using his shotgun in the sewers and holding a gun to Gabriel's head. He's a danger to the group and he needs to get out right away.
I can understand why some people would want to sell out Clementine, but even for someone I knew for a day that has saved my life, I can't. That's far too punishing.
There seem to be a number of people who think that those of us who shot Conrad don't even know why we did it. Despite making it clear we did it because of all your points above, they seem to think we're brainwashed for Clem.
* Conrad has shown he is losing control of himself. He no longer thinks about consequences and is taking rash decisions. (like using a shotg… moreun on a tunnel full of walkers) He is a danger to the group.
* He points a gun at Javier, a 13 year old kid and his nephew.
* He then proceeds to threaten everyone and put Gabe at gunpoint because they are not agreeing with him and give in to his demands.
* He is willing to take a kid as a prisoner and deliver her on a silver platter to the same monsters who killed Mariana in cold blood.
* Javier has a clear shot of his head because Conrad is taller than Gabe, Javier is close to them and already aiming the gun at him in a steady position.
* If he doesn't take that risk and lets him live, not only does he have to agree to his plan of potentially sentencing a kid to death, slavery, torture, etc. but he also puts everyone at risk, not just his family, because later on Conrad can pull another stunt like … [view original content]
I wouldn't say it is the "right" thing, but I do think both options make a bit of sense like Javier wouldn't choose her over his family, but he did threaten Gabe so imo Conrad had to go. Just like staying with Clem at the end of episode 1. He wouldn't do that, he doesn't know her and he would want to be with his family instead, but at the same time he would probably want revenge too.
i think were beating a dead horse here.. looks like some people will side with clementine no matter what. they probably think it was okay of her to shoot that innocent man in face while trying to impress javier with her badassery.
Nonetheless, he already disliked Javier and he could've pretended that our protagonist had already been devoured—which doesn't mean that it would've been right, just that he could have done it.
Only thing that changes are the relationship between the characters, not the outcome. And even then, sometimes the characters react the same way no matter what you do. Kate would still get inside and get medical treatment no matter if you surrender your weapons or not. Francine dies no matter what you do and Conrad blames you not matter what you chose to do.
Javier didn't and doesn't know any of that.
And again the player is the one to decide what type of man Javier is, just like they decided what type of people Lee and Clementine were in previous seasons. No right/wrong answers.
Oh, for sure! Some players aim for morality, others for group pragmatism, others for selective pragmatism, and others are just trying to keep the playable character alive at all costs.
Only thing that changes are the relationship between the characters, not the outcome. And even then, sometimes the characters react the same… more way no matter what you do. Kate would still get inside and get medical treatment no matter if you surrender your weapons or not. Francine dies no matter what you do and Conrad blames you not matter what you chose to do. And again the player is the one to decide what type of man Javier is, just like they decided what type of people Lee and Clementine were in previous seasons. No right/wrong answers.
when we can clearly just walk up there and negotiate. ANF don't shoot first and clearly the waters have been muddied with whatever bad blood has boiled between these misunderstandings which needs to be cleared right away.
No, it really wouldn't.
Javier isn't inhumane and he isn't going to barter with a child's life just so Kate may receive some medical atte… morention when we can clearly just walk up there and negotiate. ANF don't shoot first and clearly the waters have been muddied with whatever bad blood has boiled between these misunderstandings which needs to be cleared right away. Clementine is a child and someone who has saved our lives on multiple occasions, even helping us track down our family when Javier could have just been easy walker-food having been tied up and stranded in the middle of nowhere, with no idea on how to get back to his family.
She has shown no zero signs of being some kind of traitor or someone who is feeding us to the New Frontier, so I see no reason to sell her out. Plus the fact that Conrad is clearly losing it, using his shotgun in the sewers and holding a gun to Gabriel's head. He's a danger to the group and he needs to get ou… [view original content]
So putting a gun to Gabe's head to prove his point is alright? Also, people have said that if you don't choose fast enough Conrad shoots Gabe and you. What a bloody killer IMHO. I would shoot him every time in my playthrough.
You also said that it's not about who owed whom, but you guys were the ones to bring the point that Conrad helped you out as if it's to underline your point.
Nonetheless, he already disliked Javier and he could've pretended that our protagonist had already been devoured—which doesn't mean that it would've been right, just that he could have done it.
It is not a matter of who owes whom.
Lying kid? When did she lie? Javi never asked her if she was part of the New Frontier and if Clem wasn't so HONEST then none of this bullcrap with Conrad would've happened. She is a good person and it's a damn shame you have her on your profile picture if you don't even try to defend her standing point.
Of course she won't go to Conrad and say: "HEY BRO, I AM (or rather, was) PART OF THE NEW FRONTIER, YOU KNOW THEM? YEAH, THE SAME GUYS THAT FUCKING SHOT YOUR WIFE (or lover idfk what she was) IN THE CHEST." People's comments in this thread make me really sad.
And you couldn't be more right.Considering you are playing as Javier,it is only natural to betray her.Almost guaranteed medical help for you… morer lover/partner and reuniting with your almost lover or whatever in exchange for a lying kid that only does whatever benefits her and relies on you to defend her and lie for her.Hell yeah.
Conrad was harsh and a bit too drastic with his ways,but he was 100% right.
Clem would shoot anyone for Javi. Remember the standoff scene at the Prescott's gate? My Javi came down and surrendered himself and when he was about to be executed, Clem shot that NF girl. :P
On my second playthrough I chose to give in when Conrad's threatened to kill Gabe and;
I claimed that it was for Kate that I did this (to… more which Javier adds that Clem isn't family when questioned by Gabe, which is true and makes sense from his perspective)
I told Tripp and Jesus that Conrad was overreacting. (which isn't far from the truth)
I answered Max that she was a friend regardless (and Javier added that it was sorta tearing him apart to do that to her).
I liked the dynamic here even if it wasn't my first choice.
Just like Lee/Sarita didn't know they would die irregardless of whether you cut their arms to save them. Or the Stranger coming after you either way, or Arvo thinking you stole him even when you didn't. That's scripted events for you.
Oh, for sure! Some players aim for morality, others for group pragmatism, others for selective pragmatism, and others are just trying to keep the playable character alive at all costs.
Only thing that changes are the relationship between the characters, not the outcome. And even then, sometimes the characters react the same… more way no matter what you do. Kate would still get inside and get medical treatment no matter if you surrender your weapons or not. Francine dies no matter what you do and Conrad blames you not matter what you chose to do.
Javier didn't and doesn't know any of that.
And again the player is the one to decide what type of man Javier is, just like they decided what type of people Lee and Clementine were in previous seasons. No right/wrong answers.
Oh, for sure! Some players aim for morality, others for group pragmatism, others for selective pragmatism, and others are just trying to keep the playable character alive at all costs.
He can call her a friend several times. Ok... why, exactly?
To be totally honest the word friend is gained way to quickly in this game. In season 2 episode 3 clementine kept banging on about how "carver killed my friend walter"; I mean seriously? Clementine met him for maybe two hours tops.
Not to mention sarah judges the whole friendship with her based on if you agree to be best friends with two minutes of meeting her, completely forgetting or ignoring anything after that point, where clementine actually does things that warrant them being friends. Telltale doesnt really get how friends work.
I agree. I had Javier shoot Conrad, yet I didn't do it for Clementine, but for Gabe. I don't like Gabriel, but he's part of Javier's family.… more Telltale has failed so far to make Javier's catalyst function between the player and Clementine work well because the two are just too friendly for it to be believable.
He can call her a friend several times. Ok... why, exactly? They met a few days ago under less than friendly circumstances, yet they seem to be best buddies at the end of Episode 2. Javier often just feels like a means to help players bond with Clem more directly. But it makes no sense at all in the story of the game for him to treat Clementine as players of the previous Seasons would.
Siding with Conrad meant a higher chance of receiving medical help for Kate,
No offence you keep saying this but its not really true at all, or at least not much to suggest it is. The reasons why it would work are ramblings of a crazy man. Nothing about these new frontier people seem to suggest they are reasonable at all, plus why does this conrad want a peaceful solution with the new frontier when he hates them.
I mean, Javi actually knows Clem longer than Conrad...
Siding with Conrad meant a higher chance of receiving medical help for Kate, and Javi had known Kate for longer than he knew Clementine.
Shooting him was absolutely glorious, nearly an entire episode of bitching and complaining stopped with a an accurate bullet to the face. Goodbye conrad.
Even looking at this choice with a level not hating the episode head id still shoot him.
Hes basically crazy, he could betray javier in the future or go on a shooting spree at richmond against the new frontier
2.. No reason his plan would work, new frontier haven't been that useful yet.
Held family member hostage and was threatening a team member who has been way more useful so far and less whiny
Betrayal is a worse crime than murder for me at this point
Shooting him was absolutely glorious, nearly an entire episode of bitching and complaining stopped with a an accurate bullet to the face. Go… moreodbye conrad.
Even looking at this choice with a level not hating the episode head id still shoot him.
* Hes basically crazy, he could betray javier in the future or go on a shooting spree at richmond against the new frontier
2.. No reason his plan would work, new frontier haven't been that useful yet.
* Held family member hostage and was threatening a team member who has been way more useful so far and less whiny
* Betrayal is a worse crime than murder for me at this point
Yeah, it totally makes sense to side with a guy who holds a gun to your nephew's head and threatens to kill him, because he wants you to turn on the person who helped you rescue your family and was honest with you about a secret she's not proud of.
Just because I have her on my profile picture doesn't mean I can't point out the wrongs that she's done. I don't think you are to judge if it's a shame or not. She lied saying that she was their hostage.She lied when she killed that man and asked Javier to lie for her too. She told the truth just because of plot reasons. Think a bit more before you feel sad about some comments.
Lying kid? When did she lie? Javi never asked her if she was part of the New Frontier and if Clem wasn't so HONEST then none of this bullcra… morep with Conrad would've happened. She is a good person and it's a damn shame you have her on your profile picture if you don't even try to defend her standing point.
Of course she won't go to Conrad and say: "HEY BRO, I AM (or rather, was) PART OF THE NEW FRONTIER, YOU KNOW THEM? YEAH, THE SAME GUYS THAT FUCKING SHOT YOUR WIFE (or lover idfk what she was) IN THE CHEST." People's comments in this thread make me really sad.
The man who purposely sold her fake ammo that could've gotten You (Javier) and her killed moments ago? The man who attacked first with a knife and a kill intend? Okay, buddy. Also, she did not mean to shoot him, if you choose the option not to lie for her, she explains that and given all these facts his death is well deserved and Clementine is not to blame more-so considering she didn't even meant to shoot him in the first place.
Just because I have her on my profile picture doesn't mean I can't point out the wrongs that she's done. I don't think you are to judge if i… moret's a shame or not. She lied saying that she was their hostage.She lied when she killed that man and asked Javier to lie for her too. She told the truth just because of plot reasons. Think a bit more before you feel sad about some comments.
She pulled out a gun on him.She shot,nothing happened,he still flinched.He got fed up,he attacked.Of course he meant to attack Clem but Javier protects her anyway.I know she did not mean to shoot him,but maybe pulling the trigger so many times wasn't the smartest idea in the universe.Still doesn't change the fact that she expects you to lie and not suffer the consequences for acting like that.
The man who purposely sold her fake ammo that could've gotten You (Javier) and her killed moments ago? The man who attacked first with a kni… morefe and a kill intend? Okay, buddy. Also, she did not mean to shoot him, if you choose the option not to lie for her, she explains that and given all these facts his death is well deserved and Clementine is not to blame more-so considering she didn't even meant to shoot him in the first place.
Comments
I don't know. Javier and his group have no idea what these people are like. Aside from threatening to shoot Javier's nephew, could you morally live with yourself using a young teen as a bargaining chip [who's been helping/saving your neck until then] to a group that might do god knows what to her considering she cut and run? One of them already killed his niece in cold blood and shot Kate, so what's stopping them killing/harming one of their own?
On the other hand, you can argue too Javier might be desperate enough to try anything to save Kate's life and feels pressured into it to protect Gabe, and doesn't actually want to shoot Conrad because he's not a bad guy [despite what he's doing is pretty pricky of him, you understand his actions because of losing his partner]. Even if the plan itself is risky because they had no idea if the Frontier group would kill them on sight or if anything would come of it, if somebody's dying you might take the risk. Whatever way you look at it, it's a split choice not on the player just picking it because 'hey it's Clementine' but something Javier himself can be conflicted over.
It's not even about Clementine. Why do people think that, just because a choice is in favor of Clem, then that automatically means it doesn't make sense for Javier? It's about Conrad putting Gabe at gunpoint. And after what just happened with Mariana, I'd say Javier has more than reason to kill him right there. If Conrad is crazy enough to threaten you and your nephew to make you agree with him, what makes you think he won't do it again? And that next time someone can actually die. The same reasoning can be applied in the choice of "stand and fight" or "go with family". You can choose to stay and kill the guys who nearly wiped out your entire family (while giving them time to run away while you cover for them) instead of taking a risk and let them live when they can come after you again. It's not all. about. Clem.
Yeah, but when people say the reason why they killed him was because he threatened Gabe, then I think it's a justified one. Meanwhile, some people say "it's not realistic" just because that option favors Clem and Javier "just met her". People are not looking at the bigger picture here. Both options are "realistic".
On my second playthrough I chose to give in when Conrad's threatened to kill Gabe and;
I claimed that it was for Kate that I did this (to which Javier adds that Clem isn't family when questioned by Gabe, which is true and makes sense from his perspective)
I told Tripp and Jesus that Conrad was overreacting. (which isn't far from the truth)
I answered Max that she was a friend regardless (and Javier added that it was sorta tearing him apart to do that to her).
I liked the dynamic here even if it wasn't my first choice.
No, it really wouldn't.
Javier isn't inhumane and he isn't going to barter with a child's life just so Kate may receive some medical attention when we can clearly just walk up there and negotiate. ANF don't shoot first and clearly the waters have been muddied with whatever bad blood has boiled between these misunderstandings which needs to be cleared right away. Clementine is a child and someone who has saved our lives on multiple occasions, even helping us track down our family when Javier could have just been easy walker-food having been tied up and stranded in the middle of nowhere, with no idea on how to get back to his family.
She has shown no zero signs of being some kind of traitor or someone who is feeding us to the New Frontier, so I see no reason to sell her out. Plus the fact that Conrad is clearly losing it, using his shotgun in the sewers and holding a gun to Gabriel's head. He's a danger to the group and he needs to get out right away.
I can understand why some people would want to sell out Clementine, but even for someone I knew for a day that has saved my life, I can't. That's far too punishing.
i would shoot kate for clem
There seem to be a number of people who think that those of us who shot Conrad don't even know why we did it. Despite making it clear we did it because of all your points above, they seem to think we're brainwashed for Clem.
I wouldn't say it is the "right" thing, but I do think both options make a bit of sense like Javier wouldn't choose her over his family, but he did threaten Gabe so imo Conrad had to go. Just like staying with Clem at the end of episode 1. He wouldn't do that, he doesn't know her and he would want to be with his family instead, but at the same time he would probably want revenge too.
I would shoot Clem for Kate.
The innocent guy who nearly stabbed our eye out?
That's a good way of looking at it. I mean I did shoot Conrad but only because he threatened Gabe.
I do agree with you
But don't forget that Conrad held his Nephew at gunpoint. In that split decision, it's reasonable for Javier to shoot Conrad.
You seem to forget that Javi helped him out first when a zombie was about to attacking him, so he owed him.
Nonetheless, he already disliked Javier and he could've pretended that our protagonist had already been devoured—which doesn't mean that it would've been right, just that he could have done it.
It is not a matter of who owes whom.
Javier didn't and doesn't know any of that.
Oh, for sure! Some players aim for morality, others for group pragmatism, others for selective pragmatism, and others are just trying to keep the playable character alive at all costs.
Which goes to show that Telltale fucked up by not letting players agree with taking Clementine hostage before Conrad pulled a gun.
Oh, so Javi could tell the future, Harj!
Javi would shoot Clem for Kate.
forget that Clem was in danger of being killed and so was Gabe, I did the right thing with my Javier and killed Conrad, the fool is a-hole
well thats u
i would kill anyone in the game for clem pls
So putting a gun to Gabe's head to prove his point is alright? Also, people have said that if you don't choose fast enough Conrad shoots Gabe and you. What a bloody killer IMHO. I would shoot him every time in my playthrough.
You also said that it's not about who owed whom, but you guys were the ones to bring the point that Conrad helped you out as if it's to underline your point.
Lying kid? When did she lie? Javi never asked her if she was part of the New Frontier and if Clem wasn't so HONEST then none of this bullcrap with Conrad would've happened. She is a good person and it's a damn shame you have her on your profile picture if you don't even try to defend her standing point.
Of course she won't go to Conrad and say: "HEY BRO, I AM (or rather, was) PART OF THE NEW FRONTIER, YOU KNOW THEM? YEAH, THE SAME GUYS THAT FUCKING SHOT YOUR WIFE (or lover idfk what she was) IN THE CHEST." People's comments in this thread make me really sad.
Shot Conrad for Clementine. No regrets.
Clem would shoot Javi for Kate
You're a coward! A f*cking coward!
Clem would shoot anyone for Javi. Remember the standoff scene at the Prescott's gate? My Javi came down and surrendered himself and when he was about to be executed, Clem shot that NF girl. :P
Yeah, I do like it as well. It's the better story line imho, especially when Javi explained that to Max.
Seriously ? Clementine saved Javi's life TWICE in the last 48 hours...
How can Javi betray her...
Damn straight.
That's my thinking exactly.
Just like Lee/Sarita didn't know they would die irregardless of whether you cut their arms to save them. Or the Stranger coming after you either way, or Arvo thinking you stole him even when you didn't. That's scripted events for you.
Glad we understand each other.
To be totally honest the word friend is gained way to quickly in this game. In season 2 episode 3 clementine kept banging on about how "carver killed my friend walter"; I mean seriously? Clementine met him for maybe two hours tops.
Not to mention sarah judges the whole friendship with her based on if you agree to be best friends with two minutes of meeting her, completely forgetting or ignoring anything after that point, where clementine actually does things that warrant them being friends. Telltale doesnt really get how friends work.
No offence you keep saying this but its not really true at all, or at least not much to suggest it is. The reasons why it would work are ramblings of a crazy man. Nothing about these new frontier people seem to suggest they are reasonable at all, plus why does this conrad want a peaceful solution with the new frontier when he hates them.
But my body is telling me NOOOOO
Shooting him was absolutely glorious, nearly an entire episode of bitching and complaining stopped with a an accurate bullet to the face. Goodbye conrad.
Even looking at this choice with a level not hating the episode head id still shoot him.
2.. No reason his plan would work, new frontier haven't been that useful yet.
Held family member hostage and was threatening a team member who has been way more useful so far and less whiny
Betrayal is a worse crime than murder for me at this point
You said it all
Yeah, it totally makes sense to side with a guy who holds a gun to your nephew's head and threatens to kill him, because he wants you to turn on the person who helped you rescue your family and was honest with you about a secret she's not proud of.
Just because I have her on my profile picture doesn't mean I can't point out the wrongs that she's done. I don't think you are to judge if it's a shame or not. She lied saying that she was their hostage.She lied when she killed that man and asked Javier to lie for her too. She told the truth just because of plot reasons. Think a bit more before you feel sad about some comments.
The man who purposely sold her fake ammo that could've gotten You (Javier) and her killed moments ago? The man who attacked first with a knife and a kill intend? Okay, buddy. Also, she did not mean to shoot him, if you choose the option not to lie for her, she explains that and given all these facts his death is well deserved and Clementine is not to blame more-so considering she didn't even meant to shoot him in the first place.
She pulled out a gun on him.She shot,nothing happened,he still flinched.He got fed up,he attacked.Of course he meant to attack Clem but Javier protects her anyway.I know she did not mean to shoot him,but maybe pulling the trigger so many times wasn't the smartest idea in the universe.Still doesn't change the fact that she expects you to lie and not suffer the consequences for acting like that.