Nope. All they had to say was Javier is the lead. They didn't. It is their fault. Period. Just like EA/Maxis didn't tell players that toddlers wouldn't be included in Sims 4. Or that it was a closed world. They did it to lead on long time players afraid that they would jump ship.
If TTG just came out and said "Hey guys, Javier is the lead. Clem is more of a supporting character now, but you do get to play with her for like 10 minutes." I would have been 100% cool with that. Instead they have to play on marketing words. I don't like that.
No, they always stated that you would be playing as both.
You are playing as both.
Yeah, you could say that only two instances of… more Clem playability (so far) isn't enough, but it's still not a lie in any way.
They promised control over Clem and you got it. Just not in the way you assumed you would, despite them constantly saying that this is Javier's story.
They could have told us that Clem would take a backseat, and that Javier would be the main character.
They have. They have so many times. People were just so blinded by their love for Clem that they weren't listening.
Javier's face is even the largest in the cover art. They've been upfront about Clem not being center stage, yet fans still came to the conclusion that she'd be playable more often than not.
This isn't Telltale's fault. You made the assumption. You set yourself up for disappointment.
That explains why are we going to have Javi flashbacks in every episode at the start... so that they have more time to come up with his tragic past...
...not that it matters right now... we already started playing as him in the present/future, why couldn't they reveal Javier's past via dialogue like with Lee?
They only introduced Javier because they couldn't facilitate the alternate paths in a good way.
Basically, they were lazy and wanted to try and narrow down the work with alternate paths as much as possible.
What if this....what if Telltale made us choose which characters we'd play as and play their story side by side, from their point of views. You know, play as Clementine or Javier, would that have made any difference?
Nope. All they had to say was Javier is the lead. They didn't. It is their fault. Period. Just like EA/Maxis didn't tell players that toddle… morers wouldn't be included in Sims 4. Or that it was a closed world. They did it to lead on long time players afraid that they would jump ship.
If TTG just came out and said "Hey guys, Javier is the lead. Clem is more of a supporting character now, but you do get to play with her for like 10 minutes." I would have been 100% cool with that. Instead they have to play on marketing words. I don't like that.
What if this....what if Telltale made us choose which characters we'd play as and play their story side by side, from their point of views. You know, play as Clementine or Javier, would that have made any difference?
Nope, they should have been up front and clear. They weren't. They did it for marketing and for the majority of players to give them their money. Playing only in flashbacks is not what the majority of people would consider and truly playing the character. They shouldhave been 100% truthful.
Nope, they should have been up front and clear. They weren't. They did it for marketing and for the majority of players to give them their m… moreoney. Playing only in flashbacks is not what the majority of people would consider and truly playing the character. They shouldhave been 100% truthful.
Are we not allowed to complain if a character we like doesn't get more screen time or development? I'm not unbiased towards Clementine, I love her but I also love having Javier as the new main character but what I dislike is how they've made her development throughout all seasons practically feel static - only being dynamic when the player is involved. She acts the same regardless as an NPC
Those people acknowledge that they're biased and do not have reason to complain. They are the ones who might be favoring Clem unjustly, and they are the ones that have the faculty to acquire a different perspective.
WHY are so many people sooo obsessed with Clementine? It's creepy.
Yeah, I know we know her since Season One. Yes, I agree she is an awesome character. But that doesn't mean we ALWAYS have to play as her. It feels like most people who play TWD act like obsessed parents who can't let go of their child, let it live its own life. Clementine has grown up, she doesn't need "our" guidance anymore. Let her make her own decisions and value her as an independent being. Is it really this difficult for you?
I like Javier a lot. He is the breath of fresh air that the series needed. Sure, he isn't on the same level as Lee, Kenny and Clem yet, but come on. Give him a chance. We've only seen two episodes so far.
WHY are so many people sooo obsessed with Clementine? It's creepy.
Yeah, I know we know her since Season One. Yes, I agree she is an awesom… moree character. But that doesn't mean we ALWAYS have to play as her. It feels like most people who play TWD act like obsessed parents who can't let go of their child, let it live its own life. Clementine has grown up, she doesn't need "our" guidance anymore. Let her make her own decisions and value her as an independent being. Is it really this difficult for you?
I like Javier a lot. He is the breath of fresh air that the series needed. Sure, he isn't on the same level as Lee, Kenny and Clem yet, but come on. Give him a chance. We've only seen two episodes so far.
Think back to Resident Evil 2. Essentially the same game but what you did on Leon's disc effected what you could pick up on Claire's.
Something similar could have been done with this game. If you pick a choice in one scenario, then it isn't available in the other. You can then go back and try things the other way.
Would add a 'random' factor while allowing things to end up at the same point.
90 percent of fans would have not purchased s3 without Clementine. I know I wouldnt have. Telltale has screwed us over so far. Almost 3 years have passed since s2, and the art is worse on kenny and jane. Also, they didnt have the decency to add the amazing opening score of from s1 and s2. Then when the ep ends there is no music or no next time on the walking dead. 3 years to get this game right, and its like they threw this together a month before Dec 20.
I completely disagree on your point of telltale "not having" to put clementine in the season. Look at how people are reacting to Clementine … morebeing barely playable and imagine that but far worse and rightfully or wrongfully a good amount of people at this point play TWD for clementine therefore removing her would most likely reduce the sales and excitement of this game which telltale does not want to happen. That's why they kept clementine in so that they could please older fans of the series and still keep the older fans engaged with the product. I'm not saying it's right but from Telltale's point of view it would be a absolute disaster to not have put her in
I agree. That would be like TWD tv show going into s7, and bringing in this new protagonist and pushing Rick to the side. Give Rick a minute at the end of an epidsode just so he can be in the trailer. We all have played and grown with Clem, now Telltale just throws her to the back.
obsessed? Its called following her story. We have been with her since the start of twd series, and now we are supposed to jump and care about another character, while she is in the background?
WHY are so many people sooo obsessed with Clementine? It's creepy.
Yeah, I know we know her since Season One. Yes, I agree she is an awesom… moree character. But that doesn't mean we ALWAYS have to play as her. It feels like most people who play TWD act like obsessed parents who can't let go of their child, let it live its own life. Clementine has grown up, she doesn't need "our" guidance anymore. Let her make her own decisions and value her as an independent being. Is it really this difficult for you?
I like Javier a lot. He is the breath of fresh air that the series needed. Sure, he isn't on the same level as Lee, Kenny and Clem yet, but come on. Give him a chance. We've only seen two episodes so far.
Telltale's TWD is not Clementines story. It's a story about people surviving in a post-apocalyptic world.
And yes, it is obsessive behaviour when people don't accept anything other than Clem being the main character. It is obsessive when people want to control a character so badly. Clementine isn't gone. She is still there. And she was only a side-character in Season One as well, yet no one complained about that.
obsessed? Its called following her story. We have been with her since the start of twd series, and now we are supposed to jump and care about another character, while she is in the background?
I kinda like Javier, hes been done well and I feel like I need to state this because of the pitiful state some fans are in. But. Well, yea, except for the whole part about her side character being a major motivational tool for the climax of the season. She was developed to be, and presented as, a very large part of the first season because the relationship with Lee was intended to draw out a protective instinct in the player as the story progressed. Not sure how its creepy that the fan base ended up feeling the way the devs intended, or why people feel the need to criticize a fan base for taking a loyalty to a tragic character. Do fans of other characters have an unhealthy obsession because they want to continue the story? Is someone who doesn't like Batman Beyond suffering from an unhealthy obsession of middle age white men because they didn't care for a teenage lead taking batman classes in highschool?
Should I have been a proponent supporting Freddie Prince Jr. to take over for Jack Bauer in 24? What's wrong with people liking consistency in the story telling? Is Rick The Walking Dead because its named after him, or because of the considerable fan base who've dedicated themselves to his story?
I get what you're trying to say, there's nothing wrong with telling a new story. But you don't build a new story off the following of an old one, it's just in bad taste, man. I don't mind expanding the scope of this season at all, but yea, I want to see it tie into Clems. She's a big part of the game for me, she doesn't have to be the only part but I want to build on the history I've played through. There's plenty of room if the balance is done right.
Telltale's TWD is not Clementines story. It's a story about people surviving in a post-apocalyptic world.
And yes, it is obsessive behaviou… morer when people don't accept anything other than Clem being the main character. It is obsessive when people want to control a character so badly. Clementine isn't gone. She is still there. And she was only a side-character in Season One as well, yet no one complained about that.
I wonder the same, do not care about us. 2 SEASON with clem! So many questions to answer and give us another totally different story, but if episode 3 continues with more shit like this, I will not buy the following episodes
Why do we have to be nice to Telltale? I don't get it, I won't break the rules, but they obviously do not care about us or the things that matter to us, so why do we have to tip toe around their feelings?
I do agree. Telltale did a great job at creating the bond between Lee and Clem (as well as Kenny btw.), which resulted in us, the people who played the game, to make a strong bond with Clementine as well. I get your point, continuation is a good thing, but you can't continue a story forever.
Another example. Assassin's Creed.
I love the franchise as a whole. Ezio is my favorite character in the franchise and one of my favorite characters of all time in videogames, such as Clementine is as well. But AC is not Ezio's story, as much as Telltale's TWD is not Clementine's story. At some point you have to move on, discover new characters and follow new stories.
Maybe it would've been better if Clementine's story ended with Season Two. I don't know. But I do know that I personally could've lived with that. My problem is just that people cling so much to a character who can't be there forever. I personally also prefer to end a storyline of a character at its peak instead of wearing it out just for the sake of sticking to a certain character and ruining his/her storyline by that.
And about your last paragraph:
Javier's story actually DOES tie into Clem's story. They crossed paths and have a common "enemy" now. The history that you played with Clem is actually right there with her. It is what formed her character, regardless of our particular choices. It's been only two episodes. Two very short episodes that were used and necessary to introduce Javier, a whole new main character.
Patience and trust is what all of us need. It's a global problem nowadays.
I kinda like Javier, hes been done well and I feel like I need to state this because of the pitiful state some fans are in. But. Well, yea, … moreexcept for the whole part about her side character being a major motivational tool for the climax of the season. She was developed to be, and presented as, a very large part of the first season because the relationship with Lee was intended to draw out a protective instinct in the player as the story progressed. Not sure how its creepy that the fan base ended up feeling the way the devs intended, or why people feel the need to criticize a fan base for taking a loyalty to a tragic character. Do fans of other characters have an unhealthy obsession because they want to continue the story? Is someone who doesn't like Batman Beyond suffering from an unhealthy obsession of middle age white men because they didn't care for a teenage lead taking batman classes in highschool?
Should I have been a proponent supp… [view original content]
I actually wasn't a huge fan of AC when it dropped, but i absolutely loved 2-Revelations. Ezio had a well rounded trilogy but a defined end. And by that time you could understand the characters desire to step aside, with TT I do tend to think of these more like seasons of a TV show, the jumps inbetween time haven't been as extreme so it makes it similar to returning to the tv show for a premier. You're absolutely right though, and I think a lot of people have treated the first two episodes unfairly because they didn't immediately focus on certain things returning players wanted to know, which is unfair considering the scope of TT games. Once all 5 are out we'll have a complete game.
I do agree. Telltale did a great job at creating the bond between Lee and Clem (as well as Kenny btw.), which resulted in us, the people who… more played the game, to make a strong bond with Clementine as well. I get your point, continuation is a good thing, but you can't continue a story forever.
Another example. Assassin's Creed.
I love the franchise as a whole. Ezio is my favorite character in the franchise and one of my favorite characters of all time in videogames, such as Clementine is as well. But AC is not Ezio's story, as much as Telltale's TWD is not Clementine's story. At some point you have to move on, discover new characters and follow new stories.
Maybe it would've been better if Clementine's story ended with Season Two. I don't know. But I do know that I personally could've lived with that. My problem is just that people cling so much to a character who can't be there forever. I personally also prefer to end a storyline of a c… [view original content]
Sure, Ezio isn't the best example, since we definitely won't follow Clem's life as long as people followed Ezio's life in AC, but you get what I wanted to say. :>
When all 5 episodes are released and people still want to cry about the lack of Clementine, fine. That's another discussion then. But right now, the loud criticism concerning this topic is nonsensical.
I actually wasn't a huge fan of AC when it dropped, but i absolutely loved 2-Revelations. Ezio had a well rounded trilogy but a defined end.… more And by that time you could understand the characters desire to step aside, with TT I do tend to think of these more like seasons of a TV show, the jumps inbetween time haven't been as extreme so it makes it similar to returning to the tv show for a premier. You're absolutely right though, and I think a lot of people have treated the first two episodes unfairly because they didn't immediately focus on certain things returning players wanted to know, which is unfair considering the scope of TT games. Once all 5 are out we'll have a complete game.
Comments
Nope. All they had to say was Javier is the lead. They didn't. It is their fault. Period. Just like EA/Maxis didn't tell players that toddlers wouldn't be included in Sims 4. Or that it was a closed world. They did it to lead on long time players afraid that they would jump ship.
If TTG just came out and said "Hey guys, Javier is the lead. Clem is more of a supporting character now, but you do get to play with her for like 10 minutes." I would have been 100% cool with that. Instead they have to play on marketing words. I don't like that.
That explains why are we going to have Javi flashbacks in every episode at the start... so that they have more time to come up with his tragic past...
...not that it matters right now... we already started playing as him in the present/future, why couldn't they reveal Javier's past via dialogue like with Lee?
What if this....what if Telltale made us choose which characters we'd play as and play their story side by side, from their point of views. You know, play as Clementine or Javier, would that have made any difference?
That's exactly what they did, though???
Nope, they didn't. they stood by their claim that you would be playing both of them. Indicating that they both would be equal in playing time.
It works fine just wish they didn't include clementine. It's not I don't like her it is just she feels forced into the story
Thank you. People should really try going into this new season with a fresh perspective in mind.
It's just hard, especially since we've got that bond with her.
But I do. I don't want to play as clem again.
Still not seeing how that's their fault tho...
You are playing as both of them. They never said they would be equal in playing time. You made the assumption yourself.
They wrote the new characters well, why are people such pussies and keep complaining?
Make an effort and stop complaining.
Of course, it'd be 2 different games.
I think the charaters were written well too, but I guess it's not the same with all people.
same here
Nope, they should have been up front and clear. They weren't. They did it for marketing and for the majority of players to give them their money. Playing only in flashbacks is not what the majority of people would consider and truly playing the character. They shouldhave been 100% truthful.
I remember them saying "This is really Javier's story" in an interview.
I could be mistaken, but if they did actually say that, then that's about as up front and clear as it can get.
Uh, no I was not. I happen to like watching the characters kicking down doors. What is wrong with that?
Are we not allowed to complain if a character we like doesn't get more screen time or development? I'm not unbiased towards Clementine, I love her but I also love having Javier as the new main character but what I dislike is how they've made her development throughout all seasons practically feel static - only being dynamic when the player is involved. She acts the same regardless as an NPC![:\](https://community.telltale.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
WHY are so many people sooo obsessed with Clementine? It's creepy.
Yeah, I know we know her since Season One. Yes, I agree she is an awesome character. But that doesn't mean we ALWAYS have to play as her. It feels like most people who play TWD act like obsessed parents who can't let go of their child, let it live its own life. Clementine has grown up, she doesn't need "our" guidance anymore. Let her make her own decisions and value her as an independent being. Is it really this difficult for you?
I like Javier a lot. He is the breath of fresh air that the series needed. Sure, he isn't on the same level as Lee, Kenny and Clem yet, but come on. Give him a chance. We've only seen two episodes so far.
Exactly my point
(?) Sleep fucked up.
My thoughts exactly.
Could easily be done without much issue.
Think back to Resident Evil 2. Essentially the same game but what you did on Leon's disc effected what you could pick up on Claire's.
Something similar could have been done with this game. If you pick a choice in one scenario, then it isn't available in the other. You can then go back and try things the other way.
Would add a 'random' factor while allowing things to end up at the same point.
We're so attached to her its hard to let go
90 percent of fans would have not purchased s3 without Clementine. I know I wouldnt have. Telltale has screwed us over so far. Almost 3 years have passed since s2, and the art is worse on kenny and jane. Also, they didnt have the decency to add the amazing opening score of from s1 and s2. Then when the ep ends there is no music or no next time on the walking dead. 3 years to get this game right, and its like they threw this together a month before Dec 20.
I agree. That would be like TWD tv show going into s7, and bringing in this new protagonist and pushing Rick to the side. Give Rick a minute at the end of an epidsode just so he can be in the trailer. We all have played and grown with Clem, now Telltale just throws her to the back.
Just do it!
obsessed? Its called following her story. We have been with her since the start of twd series, and now we are supposed to jump and care about another character, while she is in the background?
Telltale's TWD is not Clementines story. It's a story about people surviving in a post-apocalyptic world.
And yes, it is obsessive behaviour when people don't accept anything other than Clem being the main character. It is obsessive when people want to control a character so badly. Clementine isn't gone. She is still there. And she was only a side-character in Season One as well, yet no one complained about that.
Protagonists in video games change all the damn time!
Are u fucking kidding me?
Things are bad when a main character feels forced into the story.
I kinda like Javier, hes been done well and I feel like I need to state this because of the pitiful state some fans are in. But. Well, yea, except for the whole part about her side character being a major motivational tool for the climax of the season. She was developed to be, and presented as, a very large part of the first season because the relationship with Lee was intended to draw out a protective instinct in the player as the story progressed. Not sure how its creepy that the fan base ended up feeling the way the devs intended, or why people feel the need to criticize a fan base for taking a loyalty to a tragic character. Do fans of other characters have an unhealthy obsession because they want to continue the story? Is someone who doesn't like Batman Beyond suffering from an unhealthy obsession of middle age white men because they didn't care for a teenage lead taking batman classes in highschool?
Should I have been a proponent supporting Freddie Prince Jr. to take over for Jack Bauer in 24? What's wrong with people liking consistency in the story telling? Is Rick The Walking Dead because its named after him, or because of the considerable fan base who've dedicated themselves to his story?
I get what you're trying to say, there's nothing wrong with telling a new story. But you don't build a new story off the following of an old one, it's just in bad taste, man. I don't mind expanding the scope of this season at all, but yea, I want to see it tie into Clems. She's a big part of the game for me, she doesn't have to be the only part but I want to build on the history I've played through. There's plenty of room if the balance is done right.
I wonder the same, do not care about us. 2 SEASON with clem! So many questions to answer and give us another totally different story, but if episode 3 continues with more shit like this, I will not buy the following episodes
I could not agree more. This is gold right here. TellTale wake the hell up for the love of god.
I do agree. Telltale did a great job at creating the bond between Lee and Clem (as well as Kenny btw.), which resulted in us, the people who played the game, to make a strong bond with Clementine as well. I get your point, continuation is a good thing, but you can't continue a story forever.
Another example. Assassin's Creed.
I love the franchise as a whole. Ezio is my favorite character in the franchise and one of my favorite characters of all time in videogames, such as Clementine is as well. But AC is not Ezio's story, as much as Telltale's TWD is not Clementine's story. At some point you have to move on, discover new characters and follow new stories.
Maybe it would've been better if Clementine's story ended with Season Two. I don't know. But I do know that I personally could've lived with that. My problem is just that people cling so much to a character who can't be there forever. I personally also prefer to end a storyline of a character at its peak instead of wearing it out just for the sake of sticking to a certain character and ruining his/her storyline by that.
And about your last paragraph:
Javier's story actually DOES tie into Clem's story. They crossed paths and have a common "enemy" now. The history that you played with Clem is actually right there with her. It is what formed her character, regardless of our particular choices. It's been only two episodes. Two very short episodes that were used and necessary to introduce Javier, a whole new main character.
Patience and trust is what all of us need. It's a global problem nowadays.
I actually wasn't a huge fan of AC when it dropped, but i absolutely loved 2-Revelations. Ezio had a well rounded trilogy but a defined end. And by that time you could understand the characters desire to step aside, with TT I do tend to think of these more like seasons of a TV show, the jumps inbetween time haven't been as extreme so it makes it similar to returning to the tv show for a premier. You're absolutely right though, and I think a lot of people have treated the first two episodes unfairly because they didn't immediately focus on certain things returning players wanted to know, which is unfair considering the scope of TT games. Once all 5 are out we'll have a complete game.
Sure, Ezio isn't the best example, since we definitely won't follow Clem's life as long as people followed Ezio's life in AC, but you get what I wanted to say. :>
When all 5 episodes are released and people still want to cry about the lack of Clementine, fine. That's another discussion then. But right now, the loud criticism concerning this topic is nonsensical.