Confession about continuing
I don't know if I want to continue with the game series.
Strange, I was shocked and hurt by the surprise death of Carley.
I still mourn a good majority of the Cabin Group.
But Jane...
It's somehow become the straw that broke my back.
And I fear for the determinant characters. Will they be given any thought or just off them for drama's sake.
All in all, I feel I've lost interest. Season 1, 2 and Michonne are awesome in every sense. A New Frontier is a major kick in the gut for me.
As I mentioned in a previous discussion, I'm pre planning a Season 3 of my own. And through some of you who have listened, have helped me in saying "go for it."
It's still in the planning works at the moment, but I shall be done. Because these characters have stolen my heart and deserve to have better stories told.
Here's the discussion: https://telltale.com/community/discussion/111052/should-i-or-should-i-not-write-my-own-story
Jane...
Comments
I feel you, buddy. I'm feeling the same way towards Kenny. You should definitely write your own Season 3. I'm gonna write my own, too. Yes, I know, it's The Walking Dead and people die constantly, but these characters deserve better than the anti-climatic ending they got.
Hey bud. So let me share my thoughts on this.
First off, you should absolutely write your own story if you think it’ll make you feel better. I’m in the process of trying to put something together as well, and it’s definitely helping me. Honestly, I really think it will help. Don’t forget that there are even professional writers who have written “fanfiction” before they got famous, and that’s how we get new and varied stories as the years wear on. No one wants to see the same stories from the same perspectives all the time, and that’s why writers of the future—maybe not you or me exactly per se, but others for sure—will one day take the reign and bring about games with stories that people like us will really love and adore.
The Jane flashback that we got…I’m still not sure exactly what I think of it. When I had first seen it, I was sad, and angry, oh so angry. I couldn’t believe Telltale had given us this—a scene with a Jane that even her haters knew didn’t make sense, a scene that even they knew was disrespectful for her fans. Instead of giving us an ending where she could’ve been a hero, they made her pull something that went almost completely against her character! Don’t even get me started on the other grievances as well—like how Telltale managed to misspell Jaime’s name (they spell it “Jaime” in S2 and “Jamie” in S3)—in a scene talking about baby names for goodness’ sake! You’d think the least respect they could show is knowing how to spell their own characters’ names. Ridiculous.
But after a few days I had realized in some semblances, this flashback may have made sense in some ways. I don’t know; maybe I’m just trying to make sense of it, or maybe I’m just trying to move on from it and this is how I’m doing that. Whether I agreed with Jane or not on some of her harsher philosophies (I didn’t really), Jane had advocated to leave “burdens/liabilities” behind—such as Sarah. Now in S3 Jane had realized that she herself was the burden, and I suppose, that she had to be left behind as well.
Now, I don’t necessarily think that the real Jane would have taken her life. I think she probably would’ve tried for at least an abortion first—and I also can’t forget how Jane had dragged Jaime around quite a bit across four states (in my head I’ve imagined Jaime may have tried committing suicide before, and Jane would have stopped her) so I doubt the real Jane really would have gone through with hanging herself. But at the same time, I imagine the thought of suicide may have at least crossed Jane's mind. And that’s what drew a few tears from me—that I think Jane would’ve honestly at least considered suicide for even a little bit.
I mean, if we as Clem had gotten there just a few minutes sooner, just imagine how that would’ve played out. Clem more than likely would’ve stopped Jane, I have no doubt. There’s no way Jane would’ve been able to do it after Clem had found out.
Now tbh I had thought about stopping playing as well, because of Jane’s death. But this was a very fleeting thought for me. Perhaps this is because so many parts of Season 3 were really strong for me. As a Jane fan, let me highlight what I find to be the best, and what I find to really be loving in these episodes, and why it’s kept me going:
First off, look at Clem in season 3. I mean, just look at her!
Compared to our own Jane:
She’s picked up so many of Jane’s techniques, I can barely hold in my pride. She’s a loner now, and she does what she has to do to get by, but she’s still kept a hold of her own humanity as well—she doesn’t quite have that ruthlessness that Jane had initially had—which I’m actually glad for. I’m so proud of Clem, and I think Jane would have been as well. If you ask me, the best parts of Jane live on in Clem.
Next, I really love what they’re doing with Javier’s relationship with Clementine to be honest. Like I said, poor Clem is now a loner, and you as Javi have the option to welcome her into your group. It kind of reminds me of Jane herself—and how Clem in Season 2 was able to potentially reach out to her and welcome Jane and show her being with people isn’t such a bad thing. We get the chance to do the same thing here with Javier and Clem—Javi can potentially show Clem that being with a group, and being with other people doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing. Instead, they can be badass together!
I think that’s what’s really kept me invested this season, as a Jane fan. As Javi, we’ve got the chance to bring Clem in and remind her how important it is to stick with others. As Javi, we can show Clem that yes, even though the family she and Jane had let into Howe’s was supposedly shit, there are still good people in the world like Javi and we can get through it together. We can remind Clem of the same values that Jane had exhibited when you let the timer run out in season 2 and Jane lets Arvo keep his meds, and Jane goes to try to save Sarah of her own accord on the observation deck, and Jane lets the family in--that Jane did do the right thing of her own accord; that although she was taking a gamble on people, the gamble can be worth it. We can show that to Clem in S3 if you have her back after the bar fight, or if you don’t give her up to Conrad, or if you choose to fight the New Frontier with her at the end of ep 1. Somehow, it just seems to be working for me. So hopefully it might for you too.
To the Kenny fans—yes we’ve had our differences. And yes, Kenny had a pretty shitty death in S3 as well. To those of you who’ve also claimed the Jane endings were unfair to us Jane fans, let me say thank you; I actually really appreciate it. I similarly hope that you find solace in your games, hopefully in future episodes somehow. Don’t forget that Kenny did show Clem how to drive—so there may be other homages to him in your games too.
People die eventually, noone is safe in this environment.
Their deaths don't haunt me, it's the lack of memory of the people we have lost along the way. I wish it was highlighted more than just in a random sentence.
When Javi was running around to find car cables in ep2, I spotted Clem. She says: "I had a friend..." and I totally expected her to say Lee, or even Christa, but she went with Ken. I didn't expect her to value Kenny more than Lee, but it's like game just tries too hard, persistently reminding us that "choices matter". It's the little thing I dislike.
The thing is that by this point in Clementine's life, she's known Kenny for far longer than she had known Lee. And despite his many flaws, Kenny was willing to die for Clem when it counted...just like Lee.
As to Kenny's death, I genuinely don't see why people dislike it so much. Yes I would have liked something a little more gungho for him but in the end he went out like I expected him to, giving more of a damn about his family than he did about himself.
Yeah, but at that moment it wasn't about knowing Kenny longer. She can also say "Jane" or what infuriates me most, "I was alone". What sense does it make, to have her say "alone" other than to remind us of "multiple endings outcomes". The necessity of showing the importance of someting which didn't really matter just completely overshadows realism and logic.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.
I do indeed understand where you are coming from, I just think we see it differently. I liked the lines because they recognised the multiple outcomes.
They may not matter in the grand scheme of season 3 but I thought that little conversation was well integrated.
It would be a dull world indeed if we all saw things the same way.
Some fans walked away after S1 ,a huge majority after S2,and it's gotta be pretty bad to leave mid season ...of this . I was happy end my WD story with kenny and clem walking away from Wellington . I'm just watching this on yt , TT could of developed the ideas of ' clem alone at the end of S1 and her reuniting with O and C' , ' Vernons story ' , ' the cabin group before carver ' .. Instead they've put a torch to all of it , it's one big F.Y. To all the fans who criticised S2, I'm surprised there's not more Russians or a circus with clowns ...
I honestly think that knee-kick technique (even before we meet Jane, we could've used on that bridge zombie in "House Divided") is really dumb, what if a zombie just falls on you and bites off your leg!
I can't speak for those who chose Jane or to go alone, but i like that the person she mentioned when she said friend was Kenny. I know everyone plays things differently, but my Clem now sees Kenny as the person she learned the most from. Lee will never be forgotten, but to my Clem, Kenny was her primary guardian. A third father.
When she first uses it on the bridge, it was more of a trial and error kind of thing. Clem confirms that is was Jane who taught the technique to her when she talks to Mike and Bonnie:
"Jane showed me a good way to attack them. If you take out a knee, they always fall, and then you can stab them in the back of the neck."
Well it's not that hard. Just get out of the zombie's way, jeez. When you kick it you'll have control of where it would fall anyway. Plus, they use this kind of thing in martial arts a lot, called "stomping the knee" or the "oblique kick" which can be super effective:
In fact it's so effective at blowing out peoples' knees permanently that some have advocated it be banned from MMA.
it is kinda hard to predict the movement with mindless corpses... with that pose it does work, but what if it steps backwards, what if the zombie's back cracks and falls towards you? This concerns me.
What? It would be even easier to predict the movement of mindless corpses that can't think than people who can. Remember?
I guess. But the risk of zombies head going towards you like a dodgeball is just not encouraging me to cheer for Clem to continue doing that. It won't work on every single one that has a good leg.
I think it's safe to say that at this point Clem isn't going to die from something as stupid as that.
Clementine knew the knee trick long before Jane taught her.
Remembers: car crash deaths, fence deaths, labor deaths, bridge deaths...
Ya never know...
My brother came to a conclusion about how I felt and it stands to reason I have developed
Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy.
And because of this, I WILL do the story in my own way, showing my creativity, my interest in storytelling and my admiration for the characters of the game.
"You are not my dad, Kenny. You are my friend."
I don't even know what that is? A line from the game? Because I've never gotten that line and if the character didn't say it in my playthrough then that's not the way my Clem thinks of Kenny. Just like at the end of season 2, you can tell Kenny he's dangerous and leave on your own. But if i don't pick that option then my Clem doesn't think he's dangerous. It's only official if you pick that option and since my Clem doesn't say that, then i can interpret her feelings towards Kenny any way i want.
This is optional, obviously. Happens when Clem drinks rum with Jane and later on gets criticized by Kenny. I think whatever Clementine says depends on the player, but her thoughts are still the same, though those choices don't really matter.
The only problem I had with Jane's death was that it seemed out of character for her. After the guilt she felt about leaving Jaime behind and how resilient she had been thus far, Jane killing herself b/c she was pregnant just seemed really out of character. I thought for sure that she'd try some homemade abortion before she'd kill herself over it.
I agree. Her "demise" was completely out of character for her. And I blame the writers.
If you stayed with Kenny by the end of Season Two, it is logical that she would value him over Lee! Ken was with her for about twenty months, whereas Lee was with her for four months, at most.
Christa has been neglected.
Wait what.
This is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.
While Kenny was her friend, perhaps even as caring and protective as Lee, he came into the spotlight after Lee died. And Lee... Man, Lee was everything for that little girl. She was everything for him. Kenny was just a figure of someone's else father, and sure, in time he could get closer to Clem, but he could never replace Lee Everett. Lee had absolutely no reason to care for some girl and waste life to help her find her parents, yet he did. Doesn't matter how long he was with her. He fought for her, killed for her. He rised her, showed the right path, what to value in life and how to make decisions. He died for her. And it's not determinant wheter he lives or dies. He died like he lived, protecting Clementine.
I love Kenny, but this little girl is Lee's sweet pea and she's strong and alive because of him.
I understand why you would value Lee over any of her other protectors; but, in my case, her parents, Christa, Omid, determinantly Kenny and perhaps even determinantly Edith surpass him. The reason why you believe this isn't correct is because we didn't witness what she went through with each of them.
But if it wasn't for Lee, there would be no Clementine for Kenny/Christa/Edith to protect.
I can see your reasons, but this is my opinion.