I don't feel like she swore alot in my playthrough. But maybe I was just holding her up to my standard, I have to actively watch my words when I'm talking around my nieces lol
I think it's fine, my only problem is the fact they made her a defined character despite allowing players to define her personality and roleplay her, including choosing whether she swears or not within dialogue.
This is one of the main issues I have with this game (other than the obvious one...)
I cannot comprehend how they have let us Role-play a character in dozens of different ways, and develop her personality with both our choices, and our own individual thoughts, actions, reasoning and interpretation of her words, expressions and motives. But then strip that all away and make her a completely one line, defined npc that has a completely forced line of reasoning, and is completely different to her original character.
Not even that, but it actually HELPS you. It's takes away some of the stress. I think it makes wounds hurt less - this is why every time someone gets hurt they just swear. It makes, sense, really. If you're able to swear, then it means you're in a safe place. I don't know how much truth is in that, but i did hear of it. Either way - it's not hurting anybody.
And you know what? Even if Clementine is bad, then so what? Are you really gonna make a rant about good and bad? Because for me its all a subjective bullshit. You could try to be a super good person in zombie apocalypse. You would die pretty soon, realizing you cant trust everybody before dying. She isn't a nice little girl, and she shouldn't be. You can't just be nice to everyone, and everyone can't expect you will be nice to them - it's how it would work. And if you want to talk about the bigger picture - helping some people won't do anything. You help them, and that one time, the people you want to help will kill you. One survivor less. And now, if you were more like Clementine instead - you can kill the ones who deserve. The 'bad people'. The ones that would go on and probably kill or do even worse things if you left them alive. In a world like this there would be no bad or good. Only what you could sleep after.
And that 'accident' in Episode one of S3, was just an accident. She shouldnt have done it, but she did. And if it's anybody's fault, it's that guy's. He had it coming.
You're like many others, but you're not like all others. Meaning, that not everyone was like you, myself for example. Which of course, could… more mean that Clementine is like you in this instance, but she seemed vastly different from your average 8-year-old if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, I can understand growing up in a bad environment that negatively affects your behavior, but to use that as an excuse for being extremely callous and careless with your words, is foolish. Imagine if I used that excuse for every murderer who brandished a weapon and proceeded to kill someone with no remorse. Oh, they had a bad upbringing and because of it, found it necessary to kill everyone in sight. It's not a legitimate reason for their actions.
Not swearing is a personal choice. Choice that does not matter. So don't act like swearing is bad just because YOU don't do it. And then compare a child growing in a zombie apocalypse to yourself. You realize after a shit like that, she could be entirely emotionless? 8 years old - and she already had to kill someone that was like a father to her (or watch him turn into one of them). After seeing her parents are walking corpses.
Even in real life, swearing is not a bad thing in my opinion. Humans simply are fuqed up creatures and you need certain words which express certain feelings that you can't express with soft words.
I work at youth detention center, belive me, those are the worst kind of kids. And I said a lot of them, not all. It depends, both on enviro… morement and personality. I've noticed it doesn't really matter which age they are, it's about maturity and how they want to be seen by other people.
Yeah, Clementine needs to be tough, so it's probably why she tends to swear, 'cause words are the direct representation of one's intentions.
I don't mind her swearing...
...but I don't like how she just snaps and gets irradiated and lashes out on someone; "They're fucking walkers, okay?"
geez take a chill pill kid.
Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, so by definition she did in fact murder him. Either way, why would you wave a gun in someone else's face, if you didn't have any intentions on actually using it? Now mind you, I personally think that it was an accident, but it doesn't take away what she did.
Profanity is objectively wrong. How can you possibly say otherwise? Objective morality can't be dependent on one's own mind. In other words, to say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anyone believes it to be true.
What are you basing that on? You clearly just said that you "think", and you even said that you didn't "know". Your source of information, whatever that may be, is faulty at best. And there are countless individuals who have been emotionally hurt by the words of another person, some of those words even including profane language.
If Clementine is bad, then I have every right to express my frustrations (or opinion) about how I disagree with her and what she stands for now. And no, I never had the intentions of ranting and raving about what's good and bad. I posted a reply which garnered attention from others, to which led us talking about Clementine's character. According to your logic, though, if everything is as you say it is, that being subjective, then I don't see why you even took the time out of your day to reply. Because if everything is subjective, then nothing is objective, which also means that profanity, murder, and other things are neither good or bad. That's a self-defeating argument. Are you willing to stick by your logic? If someone murdered your family right now, then hey, that's neither here nor there since it's all subjective. For you, it may be wrong; but for the murderer, it may be right. But please honestly answer me, do you not think that that's objectively wrong, the murder of your very own family? To be honest, you just defeated your own argument by saying that it's all subjective, which in turn causes your argument to be weakened by what you think strengthens it.
In the first episode of season three, I never once believed (to my knowledge) that it wasn't an accident, but it still doesn't take away from the fact what it also is: murder. The man who gypped Clementine out of bullets shouldn't have attacked Javier, which subsequently made him a possible threat, but she should have known better than to wave a gun in someone else's face. You don't do something like that if you don't have any intention on firing the gun. Since it's four years into the zombie apocalypse, she should have known better than to do something like that.
Swearing is not objectively bad.
Fucking deal with it.
Not even that, but it actually HELPS you. It's takes away some of the stress. I… more think it makes wounds hurt less - this is why every time someone gets hurt they just swear. It makes, sense, really. If you're able to swear, then it means you're in a safe place. I don't know how much truth is in that, but i did hear of it. Either way - it's not hurting anybody.
And you know what? Even if Clementine is bad, then so what? Are you really gonna make a rant about good and bad? Because for me its all a subjective bullshit. You could try to be a super good person in zombie apocalypse. You would die pretty soon, realizing you cant trust everybody before dying. She isn't a nice little girl, and she shouldn't be. You can't just be nice to everyone, and everyone can't expect you will be nice to them - it's how it would work. And if you want to talk about the bigger picture - helping some peopl… [view original content]
Yes, there are glimpses of that caring little girl from the first two seasons (the second season being determinant), but she doesn't have to have such a rough exterior to avoid inevitable loss in a depraved world. But I happen to agree with you for the most part.
Well, she has some issues and she carries a certain attitude about her, but when I told her the candy bar was for my niece she gave it back … moreinstead of taking it because tough shit. She carries herself in a very guarded way because she's far too young to have lost as much as she did, but there's still hints and glimpses of that caring girl from the first two seasons. She's under that icy exterior, it just doesn't show because she's determined not to make herself vulnerable to that kind of loss again.
It doesn't matter. Because it makes them feel better. And they are easy to say, opposite to deep talks. Especially that you dont have time for just talking in a apocalypse.
Swear words are never the most useful at describing feelings.
People might feel good when shouting them, but, in the end, they haven't accurately described how they feel.
"Profanity is objectively wrong. How can you possibly say otherwise? Objective morality can't be dependent on one's own mind. In other words, to say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anyone believes it to be true."
Morality isn't objective. It's subjective. But swearing being good at stress relief is a fact. I don't give a single shit what you think is 'right or wrong'. Especially when it comes to a child living in a world with the dead walking.
"What are you basing that on? You clearly just said that you "think", and you even said that you didn't "know". Your source of information, whatever that may be, is faulty at best. And there are countless individuals who have been emotionally hurt by the words of another person, some of those words even including profane language."
I'm sure about stress relief part, but i'm not sure about pain relief part.
"If Clementine is bad, then I have every right to express my frustrations (or opinion) about how I disagree with her and what she stands for now. And no, I never had the intentions of ranting and raving about what's good and bad. I posted a reply which garnered attention from others, to which led us talking about Clementine's character. According to your logic, though, if everything is as you say it is, that being subjective, then I don't see why you even took the time out of your day to reply."
Because my life is boring. Also, i said "IF" she is bad. My point was, even if she is bad, she is just a child in a horrible environment. You can't just judge her like that. That in itself, in my subjective opinion, is wrong.
"Because if everything is subjective, then nothing is objective, which also means that profanity, murder, and other things are neither good or bad. "
That's right. It's only what we think of them.
For the most part, there is no real 'objectives' for us. Not for humans. But i refer to things that way if they are not heavily based on emotions.
"That's a self-defeating argument. Are you willing to stick by your logic? If someone murdered your family right now, then hey, that's neither here nor there since it's all subjective. For you, it may be wrong; but for the murderer, it may be right. But please honestly answer me, do you not think that that's objectively wrong, the murder of your very own family? To be honest, you just defeated your own argument by saying that it's all subjective, which in turn causes your argument to be weakened by what you think strengthens it."
Not at all.
If that killer had a reason to kill them, other than out of pure satisfaction, then he objectively wouldn't do anything 'bad. Just trying to survive.
However, that does not matter, because i would be blinded by the emotions, rage and wanting revenge.
We are all humans. We all work on emotions. But that doesn't mean we have to emotional wankers even when it comes to stuff that clearly doesnt hurt anybody in any meaningful way.
"In the first episode of season three, I never once believed (to my knowledge) that it wasn't an accident, but it still doesn't take away from the fact what it also is: murder."
My definition of accident is when someone didn't want to end it that way, and wasnt planning to end it that way.
But fine, lets say its cold blood murder. So fucking what? They said he was a dipshit, he looked like dipshit, he acted like dipshit, and he could get you both killed and THEN tried to kill you. If that isn't enough, then you are overemotional, and that's it.
"The man who gypped Clementine out of bullets shouldn't have attacked Javier, which subsequently made him a possible threat, but she should have known better than to wave a gun in someone else's face. "
He should kill him or Clementine. He wasn't a possible threat. He was a obvious threat. I WOULD keep waving a gun at him. I'm not sure i would try to fire again, though.
"You don't do something like that if you don't have any intention on firing the gun."
Have you ever heard of a concept of threatening somebody? Because i don't think so. You see, when you dont have any intention of firing the gun, you often HAVE to wave a gun at them. It's just a show-off. It doesnt matter if you're gonna do it. All what matters is if they are gonna believe that you're gonna do it.
"Since it's four years into the zombie apocalypse, she should have known better than to do something like that."
If it was four years into the zombie apocalypse you would be long dead. Not saying i wouldnt be either, but if you're not a material for a survivor, you have no credibility when it comes to how people should act in a zombie apocalypse.
Now, i havent slept for about 30 hours. And English isn't my native language. So i would be grateful if you could spare me pointing out little bad details, even if you know what message i was trying to get across.
Profanity is objectively wrong. How can you possibly say otherwise? Objective morality can't be dependent on one's own mind. In other words,… more to say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anyone believes it to be true.
What are you basing that on? You clearly just said that you "think", and you even said that you didn't "know". Your source of information, whatever that may be, is faulty at best. And there are countless individuals who have been emotionally hurt by the words of another person, some of those words even including profane language.
If Clementine is bad, then I have every right to express my frustrations (or opinion) about how I disagree with her and what she stands for now. And no, I never had the intentions of ranting and raving about what's good and bad. I posted a reply which garnered attention from others, to which led us talking about Clementine's charac… [view original content]
You really don't have to care about what I said. But the fact of the matter is that your care (or lack thereof) for truth, doesn't change it.
There are other ways to alleviate stress than to use profanity. That's a proven fact.
I know exactly what you said, which is also exactly what I said. Clementine is a young child in a bad environment, but that's not an excuse for her to act out of character (not for her specifically necessarily).
I strongly disagree with you. If you can honestly say that murder is only subjectively wrong, then I don't really know what to say for you. Murder being objectively wrong (among other things) isn't one of those things based on emotions, or dependent on one's own mind. It's an objective moral based on something more.
Do you know why you would be angry with the person who killed your family? That's called, "righteous indignation". Because something inside of you tells you that it's wrong. That's called, "your conscience".
An accident is an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally, but again, an accident can still result in harm, injury, damage, or loss. It doesn't mean that someone or something wasn't harmed, injured, damaged, or loss, but that it happened on accident and not by intention. I'm just thinking with a rational mind without having an overemotional perspective.
Clementine should have never waved a loaded gun (even if it's filled with blanks), because the outcome of her actions could result in the death of someone else, if like with what happened, it turns out to be untrue, that all of her bullets weren't working. All things considered, the man who threatened Javier's life, quickly backed down after realizing he was outmatched. At this point, he was disarmed of his weapon and vulnerable to others. Therefore, he was no longer a threat to Clementine, especially with Javier in her presence.
As sarcastic as you're being right now, suggesting that I haven't heard the concept of threatening, I'm going to still answer your question. Yes, I have heard of the concept of threatening, but there are different ways to go about it. You put yourself in the line of danger by rash actions, like pointing a gun at someone with the intention of "threatening" them. That's not a wise decision.
That's debatable. This is just how you have been conditioned to believe, because of how movies (and such) have depicted the zombie apocalypse. As for your grammar, I can't help but point out the flaws as I see them, not knowing previously how much sleep you had gotten.
"Profanity is objectively wrong. How can you possibly say otherwise? Objective morality can't be dependent on one's own mind. In other words… more, to say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anyone believes it to be true."
Morality isn't objective. It's subjective. But swearing being good at stress relief is a fact. I don't give a single shit what you think is 'right or wrong'. Especially when it comes to a child living in a world with the dead walking.
"What are you basing that on? You clearly just said that you "think", and you even said that you didn't "know". Your source of information, whatever that may be, is faulty at best. And there are countless individuals who have been emotionally hurt by the words of another person, some of those words even including profane language."
I'm sure about stress relief part, but i'm not sure about pain relief part.
"If Clementi… [view original content]
I don't mind her swearing...
...but I don't like how she just snaps and gets irradiated and lashes out on someone; "They're fucking walkers, okay?"
geez take a chill pill kid.
I do wish they would have taken more of season 2 into account when developing her attitude toward us, making her a supporting character with a predefined personality kinda makes this entries issues more glaring. But from her characters standpoint based on each endings outcome, its understandable for her to be the way that she is. We're seeing her from an outsiders perspective and given very little time to spend with her.
Yes, there are glimpses of that caring little girl from the first two seasons (the second season being determinant), but she doesn't have to… more have such a rough exterior to avoid inevitable loss in a depraved world. But I happen to agree with you for the most part.
Well, there is no law anymore, and anyway she's a kid. She did something because she was a small girl trying to intimidate a grown man who cheated her. She probably thought he would not listen to her any other way. I wouldnt have dont it, but Im not 13.
There is nothing wrong with Clementine. She is bearing up as well as can be expected considering the horrific things that have happened to her.
Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, so by definition she did in fact murder him. Either way, why would you wave a gun in … moresomeone else's face, if you didn't have any intentions on actually using it? Now mind you, I personally think that it was an accident, but it doesn't take away what she did.
There's a law written on their (the remaining survivors') hearts. In a zombie apocalypse, if someone were to do something contrary to what they know to be right, then there would be consequences for their actions. In "The Walking Dead: 400 Days", you get a glimpse at how such a law would still be enforced on an individual, when a survivor steals from Shel and her group. There were actions taken against him for stealing (determinant), which is an unlawful act. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. There's something wrong with Clementine. It's one thing, if as the player, you played her as a cynical person in the second season; but it's another thing entirely, if as the player, you brought her up to being an upstanding citizen.
Well, there is no law anymore, and anyway she's a kid. She did something because she was a small girl trying to intimidate a grown man who c… moreheated her. She probably thought he would not listen to her any other way. I wouldnt have dont it, but Im not 13.
There is nothing wrong with Clementine. She is bearing up as well as can be expected considering the horrific things that have happened to her.
I don't expect you to agree, you have your mind made up. You expect her to be an "upstanding citizen" I guess, in spite of her experiences, many of which we don't even know about yet. We have a whole two years to account for and anything could have happened to change her perspective on life and people.
There's a law written on their (the remaining survivors') hearts. In a zombie apocalypse, if someone were to do something contrary to what t… morehey know to be right, then there would be consequences for their actions. In "The Walking Dead: 400 Days", you get a glimpse at how such a law would still be enforced on an individual, when a survivor steals from Shel and her group. There were actions taken against him for stealing (determinant), which is an unlawful act. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. There's something wrong with Clementine. It's one thing, if as the player, you played her as a cynical person in the second season; but it's another thing entirely, if as the player, you brought her up to being an upstanding citizen.
And neither do I expect you to agree with me. You clearly have your mind made up, too. You expect Clementine to walk, talk, and act like every other remaining survivor, with basically no distinct qualities anymore, in spite of how she was raised from not only her parents, but from Lee as well. Of course, there's a whole two years to account for from when we last left off with Clementine, but again, it doesn't mean that her life's experiences had to keep her from being who we have always known her to be. That's all I'm trying to say.
I don't expect you to agree, you have your mind made up. You expect her to be an "upstanding citizen" I guess, in spite of her experiences,… more many of which we don't even know about yet. We have a whole two years to account for and anything could have happened to change her perspective on life and people.
Where did I ever give the impression that I don't think she has distinct qualities from everyone else? I said that her experiences made her who she is and that there is nothing wrong with who she is because of that. I do have my mind made up about that. She is a unique person because every bit of pain and suffering and even joy and hope has changed her over the years. I get from you that you think there is something wrong with her because she is not acting the way you think she should.
And neither do I expect you to agree with me. You clearly have your mind made up, too. You expect Clementine to walk, talk, and act like eve… morery other remaining survivor, with basically no distinct qualities anymore, in spite of how she was raised from not only her parents, but from Lee as well. Of course, there's a whole two years to account for from when we last left off with Clementine, but again, it doesn't mean that her life's experiences had to keep her from being who we have always known her to be. That's all I'm trying to say.
I like it when she swears. HELL, MAKE HER DO IT MORE. Makes me laugh when she does especially her savage moments XD
Plus do you honestly think that she would stay innocent forever? This is 4 years into the apocalypse, I don't think anyone would be saints at this point...
I fucking love when Clem swears. I swear quite a bit and so do all the people around me, so I don't mind it or find it as annoying/rude as m… moreuch as other people here seem to do?
Clem seems to only swear under 2 circumstances: when she's VERY stressed out/in pain, or when someone really pisses her off. (Calling Javi a fucking traitor and cussing out Conrad) And both of those situations are very understandable situations to curse at.
I'm actually making a gif set of (some of) the times Clem can swear in A New Frontier. Preview:
By expecting Clementine to walk, talk, and act like every other remaining survivor, that just seems to suggest it. Her uniqueness would be tossed out of the window, along with her distinct qualities if she no longer was the innocent little girl from the first season, and as far as I can tell they have been, because she's no different from everyone else right now. She can still be unique and innocent, even after having experienced everything that she has over the course of four years. And I think that there's something wrong with her, because she doesn't resemble how I played as her in any way (to my knowledge). Your Clementine may be a ruthless, cutthroat, no nonsense mercenary, but my Clementine was moved by compassion towards others, with a genuine concern for their wellbeing.
Where did I ever give the impression that I don't think she has distinct qualities from everyone else? I said that her experiences made her … morewho she is and that there is nothing wrong with who she is because of that. I do have my mind made up about that. She is a unique person because every bit of pain and suffering and even joy and hope has changed her over the years. I get from you that you think there is something wrong with her because she is not acting the way you think she should.
Clem seems to only swear under 2 circumstances: when she's VERY stressed out/in pain, or when someone really pisses her off.
Nah, not really true. "They're all fucking walkers, okay?"
By expecting Clementine to walk, talk, and act like every other remaining survivor, that just seems to suggest it. Her uniqueness would be t… moreossed out of the window, along with her distinct qualities if she no longer was the innocent little girl from the first season, and as far as I can tell they have been, because she's no different from everyone else right now. She can still be unique and innocent, even after having experienced everything that she has over the course of four years. And I think that there's something wrong with her, because she doesn't resemble how I played as her in any way (to my knowledge). Your Clementine may be a ruthless, cutthroat, no nonsense mercenary, but my Clementine was moved by compassion towards others, with a genuine concern for their wellbeing.
My Clementine wasn't like that either, as previously stated. Which is all the more reason why I have serious concerns with her character development. I can understand slight changes in her character, I really can. But for her to be completely different in the matter of two years, is bizarre. That's really all. Either way, I respect your opinion on this subject matter.
Comments
There's a difference between being 9 and 13. Are you like 5? Of course a person would swear. It's what makes up the language.
NIECES?!?!?!?!!?!?? It's niece and nephew..................................................
OH MY GOD THIS MOD IS THE BEST MOD EVER HAAHAHAHHAAHAHAH
Uh, I have 4 niece one nephew? He's a newborn, he doesn't even know what I'm saying tho lol. KID SLEEPS ALWAYS
I find it kinda cute when she swears :P
I think it's fine, my only problem is the fact they made her a defined character despite allowing players to define her personality and roleplay her, including choosing whether she swears or not within dialogue.
This is one of the main issues I have with this game (other than the obvious one...)
Oh I thought you meant Mariana and Gabe lmao
Swearing is not objectively bad.
Fucking deal with it.
Not even that, but it actually HELPS you. It's takes away some of the stress. I think it makes wounds hurt less - this is why every time someone gets hurt they just swear. It makes, sense, really. If you're able to swear, then it means you're in a safe place. I don't know how much truth is in that, but i did hear of it. Either way - it's not hurting anybody.
And you know what? Even if Clementine is bad, then so what? Are you really gonna make a rant about good and bad? Because for me its all a subjective bullshit. You could try to be a super good person in zombie apocalypse. You would die pretty soon, realizing you cant trust everybody before dying. She isn't a nice little girl, and she shouldn't be. You can't just be nice to everyone, and everyone can't expect you will be nice to them - it's how it would work. And if you want to talk about the bigger picture - helping some people won't do anything. You help them, and that one time, the people you want to help will kill you. One survivor less. And now, if you were more like Clementine instead - you can kill the ones who deserve. The 'bad people'. The ones that would go on and probably kill or do even worse things if you left them alive. In a world like this there would be no bad or good. Only what you could sleep after.
And that 'accident' in Episode one of S3, was just an accident. She shouldnt have done it, but she did. And if it's anybody's fault, it's that guy's. He had it coming.
Good for you. Do you want a cookie?
Not swearing is a personal choice. Choice that does not matter. So don't act like swearing is bad just because YOU don't do it. And then compare a child growing in a zombie apocalypse to yourself. You realize after a shit like that, she could be entirely emotionless? 8 years old - and she already had to kill someone that was like a father to her (or watch him turn into one of them). After seeing her parents are walking corpses.
Which isn't to say that dumb people tend to be organized, sleep more and don't swear.
Swear words are never the most useful at describing feelings.
People might feel good when shouting them, but, in the end, they haven't accurately described how they feel.
I don't mind her swearing...
...but I don't like how she just snaps and gets irradiated and lashes out on someone; "They're fucking walkers, okay?"
geez take a chill pill kid.
She didnt murder him. It was an accident. She was being a little reckless waving the gun around but it wasnt murder.
Yeah it does depend on the environment. I was stating out of this current generation since a good chunk of them say these words out of the blue.
That's good you work with those kinds of kids. I respect that.
Lmao, all good man.
Well in her defense she does sorta apologize and tells you that she is not used to being around people any more.
Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, so by definition she did in fact murder him. Either way, why would you wave a gun in someone else's face, if you didn't have any intentions on actually using it? Now mind you, I personally think that it was an accident, but it doesn't take away what she did.
Profanity is objectively wrong. How can you possibly say otherwise? Objective morality can't be dependent on one's own mind. In other words, to say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anyone believes it to be true.
What are you basing that on? You clearly just said that you "think", and you even said that you didn't "know". Your source of information, whatever that may be, is faulty at best. And there are countless individuals who have been emotionally hurt by the words of another person, some of those words even including profane language.
If Clementine is bad, then I have every right to express my frustrations (or opinion) about how I disagree with her and what she stands for now. And no, I never had the intentions of ranting and raving about what's good and bad. I posted a reply which garnered attention from others, to which led us talking about Clementine's character. According to your logic, though, if everything is as you say it is, that being subjective, then I don't see why you even took the time out of your day to reply. Because if everything is subjective, then nothing is objective, which also means that profanity, murder, and other things are neither good or bad. That's a self-defeating argument. Are you willing to stick by your logic? If someone murdered your family right now, then hey, that's neither here nor there since it's all subjective. For you, it may be wrong; but for the murderer, it may be right. But please honestly answer me, do you not think that that's objectively wrong, the murder of your very own family? To be honest, you just defeated your own argument by saying that it's all subjective, which in turn causes your argument to be weakened by what you think strengthens it.
In the first episode of season three, I never once believed (to my knowledge) that it wasn't an accident, but it still doesn't take away from the fact what it also is: murder. The man who gypped Clementine out of bullets shouldn't have attacked Javier, which subsequently made him a possible threat, but she should have known better than to wave a gun in someone else's face. You don't do something like that if you don't have any intention on firing the gun. Since it's four years into the zombie apocalypse, she should have known better than to do something like that.
Yes, there are glimpses of that caring little girl from the first two seasons (the second season being determinant), but she doesn't have to have such a rough exterior to avoid inevitable loss in a depraved world. But I happen to agree with you for the most part.
It doesn't matter. Because it makes them feel better. And they are easy to say, opposite to deep talks. Especially that you dont have time for just talking in a apocalypse.
"Profanity is objectively wrong. How can you possibly say otherwise? Objective morality can't be dependent on one's own mind. In other words, to say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anyone believes it to be true."
Morality isn't objective. It's subjective. But swearing being good at stress relief is a fact. I don't give a single shit what you think is 'right or wrong'. Especially when it comes to a child living in a world with the dead walking.
"What are you basing that on? You clearly just said that you "think", and you even said that you didn't "know". Your source of information, whatever that may be, is faulty at best. And there are countless individuals who have been emotionally hurt by the words of another person, some of those words even including profane language."
I'm sure about stress relief part, but i'm not sure about pain relief part.
"If Clementine is bad, then I have every right to express my frustrations (or opinion) about how I disagree with her and what she stands for now. And no, I never had the intentions of ranting and raving about what's good and bad. I posted a reply which garnered attention from others, to which led us talking about Clementine's character. According to your logic, though, if everything is as you say it is, that being subjective, then I don't see why you even took the time out of your day to reply."
Because my life is boring. Also, i said "IF" she is bad. My point was, even if she is bad, she is just a child in a horrible environment. You can't just judge her like that. That in itself, in my subjective opinion, is wrong.
"Because if everything is subjective, then nothing is objective, which also means that profanity, murder, and other things are neither good or bad. "
That's right. It's only what we think of them.
For the most part, there is no real 'objectives' for us. Not for humans. But i refer to things that way if they are not heavily based on emotions.
"That's a self-defeating argument. Are you willing to stick by your logic? If someone murdered your family right now, then hey, that's neither here nor there since it's all subjective. For you, it may be wrong; but for the murderer, it may be right. But please honestly answer me, do you not think that that's objectively wrong, the murder of your very own family? To be honest, you just defeated your own argument by saying that it's all subjective, which in turn causes your argument to be weakened by what you think strengthens it."
Not at all.
If that killer had a reason to kill them, other than out of pure satisfaction, then he objectively wouldn't do anything 'bad. Just trying to survive.
However, that does not matter, because i would be blinded by the emotions, rage and wanting revenge.
We are all humans. We all work on emotions. But that doesn't mean we have to emotional wankers even when it comes to stuff that clearly doesnt hurt anybody in any meaningful way.
"In the first episode of season three, I never once believed (to my knowledge) that it wasn't an accident, but it still doesn't take away from the fact what it also is: murder."
My definition of accident is when someone didn't want to end it that way, and wasnt planning to end it that way.
But fine, lets say its cold blood murder. So fucking what? They said he was a dipshit, he looked like dipshit, he acted like dipshit, and he could get you both killed and THEN tried to kill you. If that isn't enough, then you are overemotional, and that's it.
"The man who gypped Clementine out of bullets shouldn't have attacked Javier, which subsequently made him a possible threat, but she should have known better than to wave a gun in someone else's face. "
He should kill him or Clementine. He wasn't a possible threat. He was a obvious threat. I WOULD keep waving a gun at him. I'm not sure i would try to fire again, though.
"You don't do something like that if you don't have any intention on firing the gun."
Have you ever heard of a concept of threatening somebody? Because i don't think so. You see, when you dont have any intention of firing the gun, you often HAVE to wave a gun at them. It's just a show-off. It doesnt matter if you're gonna do it. All what matters is if they are gonna believe that you're gonna do it.
"Since it's four years into the zombie apocalypse, she should have known better than to do something like that."
If it was four years into the zombie apocalypse you would be long dead. Not saying i wouldnt be either, but if you're not a material for a survivor, you have no credibility when it comes to how people should act in a zombie apocalypse.
Now, i havent slept for about 30 hours. And English isn't my native language. So i would be grateful if you could spare me pointing out little bad details, even if you know what message i was trying to get across.
You really don't have to care about what I said. But the fact of the matter is that your care (or lack thereof) for truth, doesn't change it.
There are other ways to alleviate stress than to use profanity. That's a proven fact.
I know exactly what you said, which is also exactly what I said. Clementine is a young child in a bad environment, but that's not an excuse for her to act out of character (not for her specifically necessarily).
I strongly disagree with you. If you can honestly say that murder is only subjectively wrong, then I don't really know what to say for you. Murder being objectively wrong (among other things) isn't one of those things based on emotions, or dependent on one's own mind. It's an objective moral based on something more.
Do you know why you would be angry with the person who killed your family? That's called, "righteous indignation". Because something inside of you tells you that it's wrong. That's called, "your conscience".
An accident is an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally, but again, an accident can still result in harm, injury, damage, or loss. It doesn't mean that someone or something wasn't harmed, injured, damaged, or loss, but that it happened on accident and not by intention. I'm just thinking with a rational mind without having an overemotional perspective.
Clementine should have never waved a loaded gun (even if it's filled with blanks), because the outcome of her actions could result in the death of someone else, if like with what happened, it turns out to be untrue, that all of her bullets weren't working. All things considered, the man who threatened Javier's life, quickly backed down after realizing he was outmatched. At this point, he was disarmed of his weapon and vulnerable to others. Therefore, he was no longer a threat to Clementine, especially with Javier in her presence.
As sarcastic as you're being right now, suggesting that I haven't heard the concept of threatening, I'm going to still answer your question. Yes, I have heard of the concept of threatening, but there are different ways to go about it. You put yourself in the line of danger by rash actions, like pointing a gun at someone with the intention of "threatening" them. That's not a wise decision.
That's debatable. This is just how you have been conditioned to believe, because of how movies (and such) have depicted the zombie apocalypse. As for your grammar, I can't help but point out the flaws as I see them, not knowing previously how much sleep you had gotten.
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Maybe that's why she was so mad after the search of the crashed truck, she did not find you-know-whats.
But I think it's way more disturbing on how does she know that.
I do wish they would have taken more of season 2 into account when developing her attitude toward us, making her a supporting character with a predefined personality kinda makes this entries issues more glaring. But from her characters standpoint based on each endings outcome, its understandable for her to be the way that she is. We're seeing her from an outsiders perspective and given very little time to spend with her.
Well, there is no law anymore, and anyway she's a kid. She did something because she was a small girl trying to intimidate a grown man who cheated her. She probably thought he would not listen to her any other way. I wouldnt have dont it, but Im not 13.
There is nothing wrong with Clementine. She is bearing up as well as can be expected considering the horrific things that have happened to her.
There's a law written on their (the remaining survivors') hearts. In a zombie apocalypse, if someone were to do something contrary to what they know to be right, then there would be consequences for their actions. In "The Walking Dead: 400 Days", you get a glimpse at how such a law would still be enforced on an individual, when a survivor steals from Shel and her group. There were actions taken against him for stealing (determinant), which is an unlawful act. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. There's something wrong with Clementine. It's one thing, if as the player, you played her as a cynical person in the second season; but it's another thing entirely, if as the player, you brought her up to being an upstanding citizen.
I don't expect you to agree, you have your mind made up. You expect her to be an "upstanding citizen" I guess, in spite of her experiences, many of which we don't even know about yet. We have a whole two years to account for and anything could have happened to change her perspective on life and people.
And neither do I expect you to agree with me. You clearly have your mind made up, too. You expect Clementine to walk, talk, and act like every other remaining survivor, with basically no distinct qualities anymore, in spite of how she was raised from not only her parents, but from Lee as well. Of course, there's a whole two years to account for from when we last left off with Clementine, but again, it doesn't mean that her life's experiences had to keep her from being who we have always known her to be. That's all I'm trying to say.
Oh good lord.
Where did I ever give the impression that I don't think she has distinct qualities from everyone else? I said that her experiences made her who she is and that there is nothing wrong with who she is because of that. I do have my mind made up about that. She is a unique person because every bit of pain and suffering and even joy and hope has changed her over the years. I get from you that you think there is something wrong with her because she is not acting the way you think she should.
Ha ha, so funny, Clem can't be irritated at him for trying to be funny, she can only be irritated if she's on her period because she's a woman, ha ha.
So fucking funny.
I like it when she swears. HELL, MAKE HER DO IT MORE. Makes me laugh when she does especially her savage moments XD
Plus do you honestly think that she would stay innocent forever? This is 4 years into the apocalypse, I don't think anyone would be saints at this point...
Nah, not really true. "They're all fucking walkers, okay?"
By expecting Clementine to walk, talk, and act like every other remaining survivor, that just seems to suggest it. Her uniqueness would be tossed out of the window, along with her distinct qualities if she no longer was the innocent little girl from the first season, and as far as I can tell they have been, because she's no different from everyone else right now. She can still be unique and innocent, even after having experienced everything that she has over the course of four years. And I think that there's something wrong with her, because she doesn't resemble how I played as her in any way (to my knowledge). Your Clementine may be a ruthless, cutthroat, no nonsense mercenary, but my Clementine was moved by compassion towards others, with a genuine concern for their wellbeing.
Yeah, same thing. She was irritated by the question.
My Clementine was not like that at all. I dont see her in such black and white terms.
My Clementine wasn't like that either, as previously stated. Which is all the more reason why I have serious concerns with her character development. I can understand slight changes in her character, I really can. But for her to be completely different in the matter of two years, is bizarre. That's really all. Either way, I respect your opinion on this subject matter.
Being irritated by a dumb question and being "very stressed out" are two different things.
Javier really pissed her off then