What exactly is wrong about Season 3?
This may have been discussed before but I've never seen any friendly threads regarding it.This is the friendly thread.
I personally find nothing wrong about S3, other than the play time of Clem (though I can understand why - it would be sort of tricky to write another story involving Clem as a main character).
So what exactly do you think is wrong about S3 that is significant, not just "oh Kenny's nose is broken forward, something real that we can peacefully talk about.
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Many things, please, we have probably 100s of threads complaining about all aspects of this the installment thus far. If you're curious, it's not hard to find, but I don't want to perpetuate the same comments over & over.
Here are some gripes I, myself have as well as some I've seen on the forums:
The underwhelming flashback S2 endings: Some of the flashbacks were quick to be over and a lot of them were poorly written (IE Wellington's destruction, Jane's suicide)
Supporting Characters With No Back story
Both Episodes Feel Like Ones Divided: This is an issue I have with this. If they had released it as one episode it would be spectacular. Now 2 episodes are out and the whole season is going to feel short
Limited Playing Time as Clementine
Characters Are Over The Top And Badly Written
Honestly I feel as if they had released it as one episode and had written characters to be deeper and more understandable it would make the new cast seem more appealing. But no...
Yep, it's been said a lot but I wanted to know on a proper level. People say the play time, but if you take a look at your surroundings it can be somewhat time consuming (which is good).
Play time, from what I can see is the only thing that people are complaining about. I know that it is very likely that I'm wrong.
I may have been looking at specific threads that unfortunately only mentioned play time.
Those are some good points and I feel the underdevelopment of characters was also an issue in S2 (I know people will likely dispute that, but S2 is finished, so of course there was room for development).
If TTG didn't say that EP1 and EP2 weren't one EP split in two, would people give the game much shit? If it were just EP2 rather than EP1 part 2?
Well I played episodes 1 and 2 on 4 different occasions, each time making the story more precise on how I want it to happen (~8 hours in total, Steam says I have 21 hours for some reason, probably got left on or something), but people are angered over the play time because it's ~70 minutes per episode (1 & 2) while Telltale pulled a masquerade that this was such a huge episode that they just had to split it into two parts; while season 1 episodes were 2 hours each, so essentially you're getting 4 episodes in A New Frontier. So that's a huge problem with the length of the episodes, some other main things we're disappointed in too would be things such as the plot being horribly written in many areas (like Prescott's ordeal), Kenny/Jane flashbacks being an absolute slap to the face (not to mention their character models were horrible), generally bad character development; no hubs to explore and talk with all the character almost at all compared to previous seasons, Javier while not a bad character, most of us just don't see us in his shoes wanting to protect his family that unrealistically survived 4 years of the apocalypse, and just many more reasons. I didn't really want to fill your thread up with this, but you kinda wanted to know, so here you go I guess, just search the threads more because some of these threads have had a lot of comments/discussion in them, and now it's kinda exhausting, hopefully we just give constructive criticism then move on. We're already seeing more discussion/theory/question based threads, so that's a good sign of putting all of the unrelenting disappointments behind us for now while we wait for the next episode.
Choices dont matter but maybe the issue is more that the game isnt "tailored" anymore
I mean really choice has never mattered in these games. Everyone ends up at the same point however the difference between season 3 and season 1 (and other games)is that the small differences are not there. I recently replayed game of thrones and the sheer amount of minor things that change or are referenced is massive, it makes the story feel more personal even though very little changes in the grand scheme of things. Season 2 had this issue as well however the illusion was still there for the most part.
Season 3 may have a slightly different immediate aftermath of a choice however nothing alters whatsoever beyond that and nobody references anything either
Other issues include the fact that the flashbacks once again mean the entire cast of the previous seasons were killed off again and very few people can be bothered to try and care about a new group of people that will also die. Multiple season games tend to have long lasting characters that develop, some people are so obsessed with clementine as she is the only one from season 1 that we have seen develop, new characters can work but gradually. The fact the new characters dont really feel like survivors of four years of horror and have cliche dialogue doesnt help
Thanks for writing this out, I really appreciate it (even if it was copied and pasted XD at least I can see it), I'll definitely be looking it over whenever I want to think about this whole "S3 is bad" thing. I mean you have some real solid points here. I'm probably just dumb - I thought S1 and S2 was perfect, but a lot of people hate in S2 also.
Regardless, thank you very much! I won't make another one of these threads again, then.
Well, I'm just fast at typing and again, I've discussed this many times I have the points ready to go without thinking too much, so no copy pasterino here. Also I loved both seasons 1 & 2 almost equally, both were great, but season 3, well I'm not really sure as I don't have any real sentiment with Javier nor his family for any matter. Anyways, no problem, I try to help out/give feedback around the forums as much as I can.
Yeah, there are many cliché moments that are just bad, I guess. The "Norway" scene was a bit cringey but sorta sweet, too. I didn't like on of the responses, "oh ya, if we hit the slopes", however it's said - it just made it... weird.
There are some good cutscenes, I like the ending to S3 EP2 if you accept Conrad's plan and later say that Clementine is your friend. That felt nice.
Lack of playtime as Clem is a major thing for me, as is the overall lack of playtime. The episodes have been very short, and they kind of excuse that as breaking one episode into 2 parts, but even then its rather short for them to call it too big for one episode. But yea, with all the new characters the short playtime and abundance of action scenes isn't really giving me much time to get to know the new characters, especially when they're predeveloped to have this close and storied history/relationship that we lacked in either of the previous games. Everyone we met in season 1 or 2 we pretty much met them for the first time, there wasn't much obligation to them unless we actually grew to like them, whereas here I'm expected to care about people who are essentially strangers to me, because they're under the main characters protection. This is especially noticeable when I'm asked to choose between them and a character I'm very familiar with.
I don't personally think it would have been difficult to make a new story for Clem, a great deal of media focuses on particular characters in new situation during followup sequels/seasons, etc. The series and the comics have closely followed certain characters at the core of the story, and its why I've become a fan. Going back from where we currently are to the beginning, it's awesome seeing just how different they were, and how much has changed over the course. With way the first two episodes have been structured, I'm having a difficult time getting myself invested in Javs story because I feel so disconnected from it, his character obviously has strong connections to his family but this is a continuation, and my concerns lie with continuing the story I've followed in the last two games. I can't say I really dislike the new characters, but having spent so little time with them the big moments at the end of episode 1 and 2 didn't really mean much to be, I'm essentially pushing myself through Javs story to see what's happening with Clem, and I would have rathered that not been the case. My sense of priority is currently at odds with the character I'm playing, and up until a month before the game dropped I was under the impression Javier would be playable in addition to Clem, as that was how he was described, with this being as much a continuation as it is a new story. But its essentially been predominantly a new story, with a small amount of time spent getting to know the characters.
A bit less action and a more personal story would benefit the new characters greatly, and give us time to get to know them as we did in previous groups.
I definitely see now why people don't like it, but there are only 2 episodes out (technically 1). But I think for certain there'll be time for development of characters in EP3 - 5. If not, let's hope TTG extends the episode amount or something.
Yeah, but that scene was badly written. Agree with Conrad, threatens to kill Gabe. Don't agree with Conrad, threatens to kill Gabe.
I mean would you threaten to kill the nephew of the guy who had just agreed to help you.
Clementine acts the same in every scenario, alone, Jane ending, Kenny ending, Wellington ending. Yes dialogue might change, but that doesn't mean our choices mattered, or that Clem is different as I've seen people claim.
5 minute flashbacks to get rid of our choices because TTG don't want to follow through.
Choices don't matter as referenced in the fact that Conrad threatens to shoot Gabe regardless of you agreeing with him.
This is true, and its my hope that the next 3 episodes do take some of these issues into account. I guess my main problem was episode 2 and the end of 1. I liked how they introduced Clem and Prescott, and a lot of the interactions through out. Flashbacks and balance between playable time with characters was a sore spot, but it was a solid episode overall. Ending with a shock death in the group, another being shot and incapacitated for the majority of the next episode, and it felt like it was just big battle after big battle in 2. Honestly, whereas the death could have been a big thing had it happened later/after we got closer, it could have been really impactful. Instead it felt much more meaningful to Javier than me, which sucked, and now it kinda feels like its just a plotpoint to further along dislike of ANF/possibly be a factor in Javier and Davids reunion. Which was another thing that kinda fell flat. Davids reveal was this shocking moment, and I'm just like "oh yea, you're the dude from the porch."
The first two episodes kinda felt like a rush to set up the confrontation in the final 3, and I hope it pays off. I think overall, this would have been a cool side story, but as a continuation, its more than I'm disappointed in what we've got so far than I hate the game or anything. And there's still plenty of time to change that, so I don't really feel fair in saying its bad because I've only played a piece of it.
Javi: Your wife is going to leave you, David! She told me herself!
Funny how literally every single person I've seen choose that dialogue option immediately regretted it because what the option says and what Davi's response is are two completely different things...and yet no one at Telltale apparently noticed anything wrong.
The simple fact that they are appearantly still rewriting episode 3 as we speak...
What happens if you let it go? Do you know any Yotubers or something who have done that?
everything
I don't think it's too hard to find your answer because I think the reasons are all over the place now, and the majority of people are agreeing on the same points, but I'll list the big reasons here for you
1- above 90% of players wanted a continuation of Clem and AJ's story in season 3, if not all players.
but instead, Telltale was like NO we are gonna start a new story about someone else and his family, and how unrealistic they made it this long without so much knowledge of survival skills.
And we are gonna put the character that everybody wanted and the character this series is all about from the first place in the back lines, and we'll just give her a couple minutes of flashbacks in the entire episode.
Really Telltale??
2- Episodes are too short and rushed, they split out one episode into two, so that means there is only 3 episodes left, and they used the place of an extra episode that had the possibility of being a good episode.
3- the flashbacks, they were badly written and too short, i felt like they are there to just put everyone on the same page, more than being there for continuing our story and choices (because choices ''supposed'' to matter right?)
and despite all of that, at least give our beloved characters (whether you love Kenny or Jane) a Well-written death, I mean Kenny, the Season 1 badass and strong character got thrown from a windshield and suddenly he says he can't feel his body and that's it, he even died without a gun to protect himself, really Telltale? I KNOW you can do better than this.
4- there is no much time to build a relationship with the characters and actually relate to them, everything was happening too fast.
I mean the episodes were literally a one-hour long, not to mention they had TWO YEARS to put enough effort into the game, they could've done so much better to their most important game, and the game that actually gave them their name.
I tried to write the big and major reasons and i know there is still more i didn't write.
As a fan, it annoyes me so much seeing my favorite series of all time turning up from getting the Game of The Year award and a ton of other awards, to what we got now
And With all of that being said, i want to say that I actually don't hate Javi or something, his story would be quite good if it was a "mini series" like Michone's or a standalone game that is not season 3.
Or at least they make Javi the second most important character after Clem and AJ, just like Kenny and Jane was.
Because season 3 needs to be about Clem and AJ as a main focus not Javi.
And all what I hope now is Telltale start making things better, starting from episode 3
And the fact of episode 3 being rewritten (check Mellisa's interview) is giving me hope of that happening.
Nothing.
Two episodes in and it is already a better sequel than Season 2.
As I've said before, I truly like the game, but do I love it? No. The reason for this is because of countless mistakes on Telltales part.
First and foremost: they had 2 years to create this game; in two years, TT was only able to create "two" episodes that, combined, barely make it past the 2 hour mark (combined!), and even though it's "Javier's story" the fans didn't get it for him, we got it for Clem.
Telltale decided for some reason, even though it's pretty damn clear we only care about Clem, to create a story revolving around some random characters (dibt get me wrong, I like Javi) and only allowed us to have 5 minutes of playable Clem per episode. Another valid complaint others had were the flashbacks. Even though I chose the alone ending, the other flashbacks (except maybe Wellington) were truly a "fuck you" to the fans who chose those endings.
There are other stuff like all of the cut content we are hearing about. I know, I know; Wolf, Tales, WDS1, etc. all had cut content, but the content they've cut in ANF would've made this game a thousand times better.
I can go on and on but you get the point. There is a lot of stuff in this game to praise Telltale for but they had 2 years, 2 YEARS. There's no excuse for the damn mistakes they've made so far.
Definitely the length of the episodes. It hurts character development, and you do not get the down time to actually just talk and get to know each other. The flashbacks are too short...if these are where we are going to get to play Clem...they needed to be longer. I did not mind the deaths of Kenny and Jane and Enid(God I remember the good times we had). Unlike the people who are pissed in the manner of their deaths...I enjoyed them. People complain..it is what they like to do. Hell I complain about the Kenny and Jane models in the flashback. Those are some scary ass shit.
I want to explore the hubs. Prescott was so detailed...so why didn't we get a chance to go explore. Do you know how entertaining it would have been to see the family and Clementine actually enjoy a hot bath? I mean it had a bath house and we never got to see that place. It was a missed opportunity for character development. You know I would have felt sorry for Conrad losing Francine if I could have talked to her more.
The New Frontier....if they are the main bad guys, a little more background on them would have been preferable. Tripp knew that they branded themselves. What else are they known for...well I guess destroying settlements. But what else?
Personally I wish they the combat system from Michonne or Game of Thrones was used...with attention to the lovely and varied deaths of the walkers and people you kill. If they do not have a scene where Jesus is calibrating something I am going to be triggered.
GIVE US MORE PLAYABLE CLEM!!
We should have been able to talk Conrad down...it coulda worked out easily enough. Detriment characters should be kept for a few episodes....Carley was well done in S1...Sarah in S2 sorta sucked...save her at beginning of the episode only to lose her at the birthing scene...sigh...might as well leave her to die.
I have enjoyed the first 2 episodes...but they need to address these issues in episode3 and beyond..it is not just for us to feel better towards Telltale...it makes the story better and everyone wins...well except for Eli...but fuck that guy.
I'd rather not have Clem as a player character.
That was what was wrong with Season 2.