Sorry but the fact is pretty clear...Kenny did season 2 no favors...he took away time that should have been spent developing the cabin group. My username is honest....Kenny was at his best in season 1...his story was done.
Kenny was one character, you can't blame him for the writer's faults. Season 2 was 98% a cash grab anyway. That's the honest truth. Even then I thought that Kenny was a great character in S2. The others should have listened to him. Luke and Jane tried to be leaders and they were awful at that. Remember Luke gets captured, then tells everyone to listen to Carver and forget escape. Kenny, injured, said they had to leave and talked everyone into planning an escape.
Sorry but the fact is pretty clear...Kenny did season 2 no favors...he took away time that should have been spent developing the cabin group. My username is honest....Kenny was at his best in season 1...his story was done.
Yeah, though oddly enough, I don't think that was focused on enough, alongside Carver not having much of an arc. It's prevalant during the first half of the episode and around the time Reggie dies and Luke shows up, it stops being that much of a thing.
Since it looks like I won't be completing that critique anytime soon, I'll ask this here: What did some people mean when they said Luke was inconsistent?
There have been quite a few reviewers and commenters who've made that point. The nice guy thing is also a common complaint, though I've seen more than a few who pick either Ron the Deatheater or the "always valid" Mary Sue arguments instead.
Ironically, I think Luke's character development is one of (if not )the few genuinely positive things to come from Jane's inclusion.
I didn't like Luke as he was a boring character in my opinion and one that was genuinely weak. On the bridge he falls halfway through the bridge and basically runs away during the fight at the lodge. He gets captured which again ruined his development. He is placed in charge of walker watch and fails at that which causes Sarah to die. He was one of the many characters that was in the hate Kenny camp. He gets upset when Clem sits with Kenny and doesn't even give Kenny a chance then.
I didn't like Luke as he was a boring character in my opinion and one that was genuinely weak. On the bridge he falls halfway through the br… moreidge and basically runs away during the fight at the lodge. He gets captured which again ruined his development. He is placed in charge of walker watch and fails at that which causes Sarah to die. He was one of the many characters that was in the hate Kenny camp. He gets upset when Clem sits with Kenny and doesn't even give Kenny a chance then.
Being a better listener, being honest. I can't think of one good thing about him. He even told Clem and Nick to lie about Matthew to Walter. It was ridiculous.
Nick's canon death in my story was when Walter didn't help him.
He even told Clem and Nick to lie about Matthew to Walter. It was ridiculous.
Probably because he thought Walter might kill him. Yeah, it wasn't right thing to do and in fact, Nick deciding to face the music regardless is what saves his life, but Luke couldn't have known that at the time.
Being a better listener, being honest. I can't think of one good thing about him. He even told Clem and Nick to lie about Matthew to Walter. It was ridiculous.
Nick's canon death in my story was when Walter didn't help him.
In my opinion she was written very well, that's why she shined better than the cast in my opinion. Besides the Kenny moments and her, I really didn't like S2. I just wished that it was a fleshed out S1 experience, in S2 the writers tried too hard and it showed.
I think with some fleshing out, season 2 could have been even better than the first. A longer stay with the cabin group before they leave, and a longer stay at Howe's would have helped immensely.
S2...I do love it, but man does it have issues....
Episode 1...Omid is killed...Christa looses baby...Clementine and Christa are separate… mored emotionally and physically....Clementine is chased by a guy who has questionable motives...Clementine leads him to his death...almost drowns...befriends a dog..finds beans in a trash bin...gets attacked by the dog...gets dog impaled....almost eaten...saved....dropped and accused of being bitten by a walker....shot at...a nasty woman advocates getting rid of her...placed in a cold ass shack...forced to do own surgery...has to fight off walker...gets some food..told she can stay..bitchy pregnant woman tells her she should go...
I mean holy shit...amazing the writers did not have her loose her hat...you know...just to drive home the fact that Clementine is in deep shit.
Episode 2 Pete gets killed...either you are with him...just to remind you that getting bit sucks...or you are with Nick who gets dru… [view original content]
I think with some fleshing out, season 2 could have been even better than the first. A longer stay with the cabin group before they leave, and a longer stay at Howe's would have helped immensely.
I really didn't like the Cabin group and in all honesty when we met Kenny I couldn't wait to say goodbye to them when I first played it. I'm being honest here, Carver sheltered that group and they were incompetent to say the least. An 11 year old girl was showing them up and in a zombie apocalypse, that is unacceptable. The only one that I liked was Pete. Clem basically was the leader of that group and that group nearly got Clem killed many times. It would have been nice to know that they were being hunted by a psychopath on the first night of meeting them.
I really didn't like the Cabin group and in all honesty when we met Kenny I couldn't wait to say goodbye to them when I first played it. I'm… more being honest here, Carver sheltered that group and they were incompetent to say the least. An 11 year old girl was showing them up and in a zombie apocalypse, that is unacceptable. The only one that I liked was Pete. Clem basically was the leader of that group and that group nearly got Clem killed many times. It would have been nice to know that they were being hunted by a psychopath on the first night of meeting them.
I liked it. Obviously, it wasn't as good as season 1, but I really enjoyed (even if some aren't inclined to agree) how it gave Kenny a much bigger role than he had in season 1 and, in my opinion, the staying in Wellington ending was more emotional to me than Lee's death.
I'm seeing in this thread that at one point (though it could've just been an idea tossed around that never got anywhere) Kenny was supposed to be the main villain. I suppose from a certain point of view, he still was. I personally don't think he was turning into a monster, but that's another argument for another thread.
That being said, I'm glad they didn't go that route. People say him returning in season 2 at all cheapened his "death" in season 1, and to a certain extent I suppose that's true, but going as far as making him season 2's main villain would've destroyed his exit in season 1, at least in my opinion.
Since it looks like I won't be completing that critique anytime soon, I'll ask this here: What did some people mean when they said Luke was inconsistent?
The writing in NF is not bad...the problem is episode length...how are we supposed to care about people if you do not have the time to develop them. Tripp...could be a cool guy....what is his background other than he banged Eleanor once? Eleanor we know she is a paramedic..or is it doctor because she claims both at different times. 8 different writers...tells me that management decided to get it written how they wanted it. The writing we get is for the most part solid.
But we will see whats what in the future episodes...it may be they turn things around...or it may be we all talk about season3 as the bad one. It is not like Telltale cannot make a good story...I loved Batman immensely...TFTBL was sweet..I loved Michonne. I just do not know what the hell they are doing ...usually your story should be the first thing you have hammered out in a story driven game...right?
But it's just not the lack of character development , so far this game has no direction, at least S2 had a little bit of Clue of where it wanted to go(Wellington). You know what going back on the character development that is one of the four major problems I have this ANF, wanna know the thing that made Telltale version so unique is that it does a better job of making you care more about the characters, better than the Tv show, people say what they will but I didn't hate S2 at all, it wasn't S1 Excellent, but it was still good. I cared about the cabin crew somewhat, It had the elements of S1, but downgraded. The only character somewhat likable is Javier (of course) Marianna's death didn't even shock me, I just plain didn't care, I immediately thought "Oh well" Then one of the worse part of ANF was killing off the only remaining alive S1 character (besides Clem) or killing off the Only remaining S2 character. That was just the worst of it all. Like why hasn't telltale gotten better at character transition? I hope Telltale does better, I really do, I will agree that Batman and Tales are amazing though.
The writing in NF is not bad...the problem is episode length...how are we supposed to care about people if you do not have the time to devel… moreop them. Tripp...could be a cool guy....what is his background other than he banged Eleanor once? Eleanor we know she is a paramedic..or is it doctor because she claims both at different times. 8 different writers...tells me that management decided to get it written how they wanted it. The writing we get is for the most part solid.
But we will see whats what in the future episodes...it may be they turn things around...or it may be we all talk about season3 as the bad one. It is not like Telltale cannot make a good story...I loved Batman immensely...TFTBL was sweet..I loved Michonne. I just do not know what the hell they are doing ...usually your story should be the first thing you have hammered out in a story driven game...right?
I think they know where they want to go...I just think that the getting there has been a fight...8 different writers tells me that there has been a bit of upper management second guessing and meddling...hopefully they get things back on track.
But it's just not the lack of character development , so far this game has no direction, at least S2 had a little bit of Clue of where it wa… morented to go(Wellington). You know what going back on the character development that is one of the four major problems I have this ANF, wanna know the thing that made Telltale version so unique is that it does a better job of making you care more about the characters, better than the Tv show, people say what they will but I didn't hate S2 at all, it wasn't S1 Excellent, but it was still good. I cared about the cabin crew somewhat, It had the elements of S1, but downgraded. The only character somewhat likable is Javier (of course) Marianna's death didn't even shock me, I just plain didn't care, I immediately thought "Oh well" Then one of the worse part of ANF was killing off the only remaining alive S1 character (besides Clem) or killing off the Only remaining S2 character. That was just the worst of it all.… [view original content]
I think they know where they want to go...I just think that the getting there has been a fight...8 different writers tells me that there has been a bit of upper management second guessing and meddling...hopefully they get things back on track.
at least S2 had a little bit of Clue of where it wanted to go(Wellington).
Well, more like a clue of where it wanted to end up. And even that wasn't really a solidified goal, just one established early on to give Kenny a motivational advantage over the other characters.
Really, I think one of the core problems with Season 2 was the fact that Clementine herself never really had much of a goal of her own. In fact, the Season in general is just them dealing with whatever problem they happen to be dealing with, with Carver being the overarching one for the first half, and with many characters having no real motivation or goal. In Season 1, there was also no real solidified direction beyond deal with the problem at hand, addressing the concerns and opinions of Kenny(boat), Lilly(hotel), and the group, and look out for Clementine. But that last part alone was enough of a personal motivation given Lee's past(which Carley, Larry, and the Stranger address), Clementine's preciousness(which also motivates Christa, Vernon, and the Stranger), and the conditions of the world around them(walkers, bandits, and psychopaths-Oh My!). In Season 2, we have a variety of on the spot goals: survive(Clementine, Luke, Jane), run from Carver(the Cabin Group), escape from Howe's(Kenny, Luke, Jane), get what's left the group back together(Clementine, Rebecca), get Kenny's mind straightened(Sarita, Bonnie), have Rebecca's baby(everyone), get to the church town(Kenny, Rebecca), get the baby some food(everyone), get to Wellington(Kenny), and pick between two clashing remnants(Luke until the end, Kenny, Jane at the last minute). Only half of these had any real consistent momentum and even they faltered and changed on a whim.
But it's just not the lack of character development , so far this game has no direction, at least S2 had a little bit of Clue of where it wa… morented to go(Wellington). You know what going back on the character development that is one of the four major problems I have this ANF, wanna know the thing that made Telltale version so unique is that it does a better job of making you care more about the characters, better than the Tv show, people say what they will but I didn't hate S2 at all, it wasn't S1 Excellent, but it was still good. I cared about the cabin crew somewhat, It had the elements of S1, but downgraded. The only character somewhat likable is Javier (of course) Marianna's death didn't even shock me, I just plain didn't care, I immediately thought "Oh well" Then one of the worse part of ANF was killing off the only remaining alive S1 character (besides Clem) or killing off the Only remaining S2 character. That was just the worst of it all.… [view original content]
Interesting question. Thinking about it now, neither season had a clear arc for the characters or story until very close to the end. Both had episodes focusing on a single conflict before ending with the beginning of another. The final episode being where we see the real change in who they are as a character.
For Lee, episode 5 was a desperate fight to save someone he cared about. "She's my family." This was a man who threw his family, his life, away when he murdered someone. His rage cost him everything he had, and we begin the game with him leaving his life behind. We end in a similar way, his world shattered by things out of his control, but everything he did afterward was purely for the benefit of someone he cared for. His actions that day were selfless.
Clementine herself ends s1 the same way she began, alone and unsure. Then she sees a figure off in the distance. 2 begins with Omids death in front of her, killed by another person holding her at their mercy. Another person protecting her killed. We jump forward, Christa is left to an unclear fate as Clementine flees for her life, leaving behind the last person she had left that was protecting her. Throughout the season she's presented with opportunities to protect people who have looked after her, but ultimately fails as they end up dying even if she attempts to save them. The season culminates in a choice where she's presented with a situation where she can save someone who wants to look after her by killing someone else who wants the same, or do nothing as another person dies for her. Kenny, her last connection to the people she knew, to his son, to Lee. Or Jane, someone who's wants to teach her to be self sufficient, to teach her to take care of herself so others won't have to be responsible for her. She's in a situation where she can definitely ensure one of their survivals, while living with the death of another or both. She then walks away determined to take care of herself, says goodbye to someone who wants her stay where she'll have the best chance of survival, walk away with him because she won't abandon another person to an uncertain fate alone, or chooses to whether or not to continue trusting strangers. But ultimately, she chooses, whereas before these points it had been up to others to make these choices for her.
As we've seen with Lee, sometimes things happen that are beyond ones control, and they have a great affect on who you are. But this was the point where she began to take control of her life instead of letting others take that responsibility. It's a defining moment for her, there's no going back.
Season 1 had a strong narrative drive and character development, while Season 2 had little to none. In some ways Season 2 even invalidates character development that took place in Season 1.
For example, in Season 1 Kenny sacrifices his life for Ben, in spite of mistreating him since he revealed his role in the attack on the motel. When Kenny refers to this incident in Season 2 he says, "For some reason I went back for that shitbird Ben." Evidently the writers didn't understand why Kenny would sacrifice himself for Ben, but there is a good reason for this. Ben has an outburst where he reminds Kenny that he also lost his family, but he never got to find out what happened to them. If Lee tells Kenny that Ben is suicidal, Kenny shows remorse for the way he has been treating him. Kenny slowly came to sympathize with Ben and that's why he was willing to sacrifice his life for him. Yet in Season 2 he's reverted to thinking of him as a "shitbird". Weak.
Season 1 had a strong narrative drive and character development, while Season 2 had little to none. In some ways Season 2 even invalidates c… moreharacter development that took place in Season 1.
For example, in Season 1 Kenny sacrifices his life for Ben, in spite of mistreating him since he revealed his role in the attack on the motel. When Kenny refers to this incident in Season 2 he says, "For some reason I went back for that shitbird Ben." Evidently the writers didn't understand why Kenny would sacrifice himself for Ben, but there is a good reason for this. Ben has an outburst where he reminds Kenny that he also lost his family, but he never got to find out what happened to them. If Lee tells Kenny that Ben is suicidal, Kenny shows remorse for the way he has been treating him. Kenny slowly came to sympathize with Ben and that's why he was willing to sacrifice his life for him. Yet in Season 2 he's reverted to thinking of him as a "shitbird". Weak.
Comments
What Carver storyline?
Good point lol. I mean the whole slaves at Howes arc.
Sorry but the fact is pretty clear...Kenny did season 2 no favors...he took away time that should have been spent developing the cabin group. My username is honest....Kenny was at his best in season 1...his story was done.
Kenny was one character, you can't blame him for the writer's faults. Season 2 was 98% a cash grab anyway. That's the honest truth. Even then I thought that Kenny was a great character in S2. The others should have listened to him. Luke and Jane tried to be leaders and they were awful at that. Remember Luke gets captured, then tells everyone to listen to Carver and forget escape. Kenny, injured, said they had to leave and talked everyone into planning an escape.
Yeah, though oddly enough, I don't think that was focused on enough, alongside Carver not having much of an arc. It's prevalant during the first half of the episode and around the time Reggie dies and Luke shows up, it stops being that much of a thing.
Since it looks like I won't be completing that critique anytime soon, I'll ask this here: What did some people mean when they said Luke was inconsistent?
There have been quite a few reviewers and commenters who've made that point. The nice guy thing is also a common complaint, though I've seen more than a few who pick either Ron the Deatheater or the "always valid" Mary Sue arguments instead.
Ironically, I think Luke's character development is one of (if not )the few genuinely positive things to come from Jane's inclusion.
I didn't like Luke as he was a boring character in my opinion and one that was genuinely weak. On the bridge he falls halfway through the bridge and basically runs away during the fight at the lodge. He gets captured which again ruined his development. He is placed in charge of walker watch and fails at that which causes Sarah to die. He was one of the many characters that was in the hate Kenny camp. He gets upset when Clem sits with Kenny and doesn't even give Kenny a chance then.
At the risk of encouraging redundancy, what were the strengths of his character and what could've made him better?
Being a better listener, being honest. I can't think of one good thing about him. He even told Clem and Nick to lie about Matthew to Walter. It was ridiculous.
Nick's canon death in my story was when Walter didn't help him.
Really now?
Probably because he thought Walter might kill him. Yeah, it wasn't right thing to do and in fact, Nick deciding to face the music regardless is what saves his life, but Luke couldn't have known that at the time.
:When are inconsistencies good and when are inconsistencies bad?
Why did some people believe that Clementine stole screentime?
In my opinion she was written very well, that's why she shined better than the cast in my opinion. Besides the Kenny moments and her, I really didn't like S2. I just wished that it was a fleshed out S1 experience, in S2 the writers tried too hard and it showed.
I think with some fleshing out, season 2 could have been even better than the first. A longer stay with the cabin group before they leave, and a longer stay at Howe's would have helped immensely.
lol
I agree with RG that the 400 Days cast should have been used instead of the Cabin group. The cabin group was probably written at the last second.
Well, Shel and Becca could replace Carlos and Sarah I guess.
Russel = luke?
Vince = Nick?
Wyatt= Alvin?
I dunno
I really didn't like the Cabin group and in all honesty when we met Kenny I couldn't wait to say goodbye to them when I first played it. I'm being honest here, Carver sheltered that group and they were incompetent to say the least. An 11 year old girl was showing them up and in a zombie apocalypse, that is unacceptable. The only one that I liked was Pete. Clem basically was the leader of that group and that group nearly got Clem killed many times. It would have been nice to know that they were being hunted by a psychopath on the first night of meeting them.
Well, I would blame that on poor writing, but then even Jane says they're all gonna die and not to let them drag you down.
Um, when the hell did I say that?
I'd swap Luke and Nick's places, but what about Rebecca and Pete?
Yeah, I guess Russel had become kind of a dick after his experience with nate.
Yeah you're totally right, Vince would make a better stand-in for luke.
Thank you for unapologetically pointing out how cowardly and useless the cabin group was. They sort of grew on me but damn.... fuck those guys.
I liked it. Obviously, it wasn't as good as season 1, but I really enjoyed (even if some aren't inclined to agree) how it gave Kenny a much bigger role than he had in season 1 and, in my opinion, the staying in Wellington ending was more emotional to me than Lee's death.
I'm seeing in this thread that at one point (though it could've just been an idea tossed around that never got anywhere) Kenny was supposed to be the main villain. I suppose from a certain point of view, he still was. I personally don't think he was turning into a monster, but that's another argument for another thread.
That being said, I'm glad they didn't go that route. People say him returning in season 2 at all cheapened his "death" in season 1, and to a certain extent I suppose that's true, but going as far as making him season 2's main villain would've destroyed his exit in season 1, at least in my opinion.
What traits/details/whatever did the Season One characters have that each Season Two character had and didn't have?
Luke's not inconsistent, he's sort of a fake action hero,
like he wants to be the stand-up handsome flawless hero, but he just doesn't cut it .
What exactly were the problems with each individual member of the Cabin Group from a writing standpoint?
The Best Compared to A New Frontier's writing.
The writing in NF is not bad...the problem is episode length...how are we supposed to care about people if you do not have the time to develop them. Tripp...could be a cool guy....what is his background other than he banged Eleanor once? Eleanor we know she is a paramedic..or is it doctor because she claims both at different times. 8 different writers...tells me that management decided to get it written how they wanted it. The writing we get is for the most part solid.
But we will see whats what in the future episodes...it may be they turn things around...or it may be we all talk about season3 as the bad one. It is not like Telltale cannot make a good story...I loved Batman immensely...TFTBL was sweet..I loved Michonne. I just do not know what the hell they are doing ...usually your story should be the first thing you have hammered out in a story driven game...right?
But it's just not the lack of character development , so far this game has no direction, at least S2 had a little bit of Clue of where it wanted to go(Wellington). You know what going back on the character development that is one of the four major problems I have this ANF, wanna know the thing that made Telltale version so unique is that it does a better job of making you care more about the characters, better than the Tv show, people say what they will but I didn't hate S2 at all, it wasn't S1 Excellent, but it was still good. I cared about the cabin crew somewhat, It had the elements of S1, but downgraded. The only character somewhat likable is Javier (of course) Marianna's death didn't even shock me, I just plain didn't care, I immediately thought "Oh well" Then one of the worse part of ANF was killing off the only remaining alive S1 character (besides Clem) or killing off the Only remaining S2 character. That was just the worst of it all. Like why hasn't telltale gotten better at character transition? I hope Telltale does better, I really do, I will agree that Batman and Tales are amazing though.
I think they know where they want to go...I just think that the getting there has been a fight...8 different writers tells me that there has been a bit of upper management second guessing and meddling...hopefully they get things back on track.
I hope you're right
Well, more like a clue of where it wanted to end up. And even that wasn't really a solidified goal, just one established early on to give Kenny a motivational advantage over the other characters.
Really, I think one of the core problems with Season 2 was the fact that Clementine herself never really had much of a goal of her own. In fact, the Season in general is just them dealing with whatever problem they happen to be dealing with, with Carver being the overarching one for the first half, and with many characters having no real motivation or goal. In Season 1, there was also no real solidified direction beyond deal with the problem at hand, addressing the concerns and opinions of Kenny(boat), Lilly(hotel), and the group, and look out for Clementine. But that last part alone was enough of a personal motivation given Lee's past(which Carley, Larry, and the Stranger address), Clementine's preciousness(which also motivates Christa, Vernon, and the Stranger), and the conditions of the world around them(walkers, bandits, and psychopaths-Oh My!). In Season 2, we have a variety of on the spot goals: survive(Clementine, Luke, Jane), run from Carver(the Cabin Group), escape from Howe's(Kenny, Luke, Jane), get what's left the group back together(Clementine, Rebecca), get Kenny's mind straightened(Sarita, Bonnie), have Rebecca's baby(everyone), get to the church town(Kenny, Rebecca), get the baby some food(everyone), get to Wellington(Kenny), and pick between two clashing remnants(Luke until the end, Kenny, Jane at the last minute). Only half of these had any real consistent momentum and even they faltered and changed on a whim.
What exactly was Clementine's arc in Season 2? What did she have at the end of No Going Back that she didn't have in All That Remains?
Interesting question. Thinking about it now, neither season had a clear arc for the characters or story until very close to the end. Both had episodes focusing on a single conflict before ending with the beginning of another. The final episode being where we see the real change in who they are as a character.
For Lee, episode 5 was a desperate fight to save someone he cared about. "She's my family." This was a man who threw his family, his life, away when he murdered someone. His rage cost him everything he had, and we begin the game with him leaving his life behind. We end in a similar way, his world shattered by things out of his control, but everything he did afterward was purely for the benefit of someone he cared for. His actions that day were selfless.
Clementine herself ends s1 the same way she began, alone and unsure. Then she sees a figure off in the distance. 2 begins with Omids death in front of her, killed by another person holding her at their mercy. Another person protecting her killed. We jump forward, Christa is left to an unclear fate as Clementine flees for her life, leaving behind the last person she had left that was protecting her. Throughout the season she's presented with opportunities to protect people who have looked after her, but ultimately fails as they end up dying even if she attempts to save them. The season culminates in a choice where she's presented with a situation where she can save someone who wants to look after her by killing someone else who wants the same, or do nothing as another person dies for her. Kenny, her last connection to the people she knew, to his son, to Lee. Or Jane, someone who's wants to teach her to be self sufficient, to teach her to take care of herself so others won't have to be responsible for her. She's in a situation where she can definitely ensure one of their survivals, while living with the death of another or both. She then walks away determined to take care of herself, says goodbye to someone who wants her stay where she'll have the best chance of survival, walk away with him because she won't abandon another person to an uncertain fate alone, or chooses to whether or not to continue trusting strangers. But ultimately, she chooses, whereas before these points it had been up to others to make these choices for her.
As we've seen with Lee, sometimes things happen that are beyond ones control, and they have a great affect on who you are. But this was the point where she began to take control of her life instead of letting others take that responsibility. It's a defining moment for her, there's no going back.
Season 1 had a strong narrative drive and character development, while Season 2 had little to none. In some ways Season 2 even invalidates character development that took place in Season 1.
For example, in Season 1 Kenny sacrifices his life for Ben, in spite of mistreating him since he revealed his role in the attack on the motel. When Kenny refers to this incident in Season 2 he says, "For some reason I went back for that shitbird Ben." Evidently the writers didn't understand why Kenny would sacrifice himself for Ben, but there is a good reason for this. Ben has an outburst where he reminds Kenny that he also lost his family, but he never got to find out what happened to them. If Lee tells Kenny that Ben is suicidal, Kenny shows remorse for the way he has been treating him. Kenny slowly came to sympathize with Ben and that's why he was willing to sacrifice his life for him. Yet in Season 2 he's reverted to thinking of him as a "shitbird". Weak.
Gotta have dat "WittyKennyDialogue!"