The problematic ''The story is tailored by how you play'' concept in TWD universe.
I mainly avoided TTG's other projects - until I had time to kill and jumped into Batman and Tales from the Borderlands.
Proving my point about avoiding them - they're both done SO DAMN WELL.
I also played TWAU and it was on par with TWD but Batman and Tales had a different vibe.
Let me get into details.
- Both had near flawless stories. In Batman, there was two character arcs you could take, your version of Bruce or Batman had serious consequences. Similar in Tales, you could play your protagonist a certain way that would manifest in the finale. You didn't result in a different ending/game, but it FELT like a different game each time you chose a different choices - despite the same story arc being the same.
- Determinant characters do not end up dying like two minutes later in Tales or Batman. Specifically in Tales, there was a determinant character who, wait for it, makes it to the END of the game.
- Back to Tales specifically (though also noted in Batman), there was a point where your choices with other characters earlier ACTUALLY has a PRETTY SERIOUS IMPACT in the finale. Like I was so mind blown. Whilst playing TWD I'm very casual with my decision making process because I know the story must loop back at some point or the other. It didn't happen in Tales and I was quite shocked.
So, what's my point, you may ask.
The reason we had such NAIL BITING choices in Batman and Tales was not due to different characters, not due to the fact we had 'Clementines' who we would protect with our lives, it was because we had such a SOLID and well written plot that would lead the player down different paths of character arch.
In TWD, this was never a thing. Clementine is the way she is regardless of what you did in Seasons 1 and 2. Everyone from season 1 and 2 is dead. The point is choices in TWD have lost WEIGHTING.
Of course, S3E3 isn't out yet, but I'm calling it now. We're going to get some shitty ass solution to whatever you did with Clem, she's going to be okay regardless, but yeah, if you let her go, she'll be brought back and if you kept her, well you probably lost a line of dialogue.
You can make the choices have weighting again, developers. You did it for Tales and Batman. Better storywriting would solve this - all we need is for different character archs for our main characters in TWD. Stop using death for shock value pls.
Comments
I completely agree. TFTB, Batman, and Minecraft have been the best at using deterministic choices. I think a major problem with TWD is the type of story it's based on. There is such a focus on death as a theme that it's eroded the meaning of choices; this is because death is the easiest way to resolve them.
I am not a fan of TWD's themes though and do not have much confidence that the story actually works in a choice-based game.
As a side-note, I recommend the first 4 episodes of Minecraft Story mode as it has a very similar team spirit to TFTB with cute comedy and choices that matter. Episode 5 can be a free bonus but the only DLC episode I recommend is episode 7.
Agreed, both Tales and Batman were exceptional when it came to tailoring our stories, and I'd even like to throw GOT S1 into that mix. These games, along with TWD S1, should be the standard Telltale holds themselves to when it comes to our choices, those offered great tailored stories, the overall thing didn't change, but we felt the impact throughout. One of the things that I was looking forward to with ANF was that, with Clem being a co-playable character, we would see how our choices affected Clem and her behaviors during the sections we weren't in control of her. And with how it was marketed, and with the story generator, it seemed like that was what Telltale was going to do, but due to their incompetent management style and these numerous rewrites, we have seen practically no change between Clementines.
Yeah, that's definitely it. I was VERY shocked at the lack of death in Tales, I assumed it was a TTG thing, but it's a matter of the world it's in.
I'm going to look into that next. Never was one for Minecraft but I'd love to see the comedy writing at its best again! Thanks!
I haven't played GOT, but I might check that out.
Yes, I agree, I thought having Clem as co playable would bring new mechanics we hadn't seen before - play an asshole Javi and a sweet Clem or vice versa, much like Tales gave you the option with Fiona and Rhys. It worked so well with Tales, they literally had to follow the same model yet they STILL messed it up.
I wonder if we're scratching the surface here, from the chatter that Mel Hutchinson wasn't too pleased about how Clem came out in Episode 1 and 2 of ANF.. I wonder if it was all there when she recorded her lines?
But you're not seeing the bigger picture. It's about what happens within your heart and mind not about what's on screen.
Tales was their best game in terms of...
everything.
Story, Writing, Choices, Characters...
I loved it.
Game of Thrones (S1) also had a good amount of tailoring.
For Batman I didn't really feel much "tailoring", except for some parts.
Sure, and while we're at it, my love of Metallica doesn't come from their music, but from within my heart and mind.
This "tailored" thing is the real issue with all their games. People are caring less and less because they know nothing matters. However the reason season 3 and even season 2 were so badly received is due to a sheer lack of them being tailored at all. The other games succeeded in their being references to past events and choices, while these were minor and didnt impact much it made each play through feel more unique. New frontier has none of that, a small scene change before going straight into the exact same scene with no future references to the change is frustrating.
Not according to the TTG staff interview
While I agree that it is difficult to create meaningful choices in TWD thanks to the main thing being people dying, Telltale games were never all about the choices making big impacts far down the line for me, I really enjoy the immediate reactions you get from people depending on how you talk, its also the fact that you can (to some degree) choose how your character talks.
I played a game recently called Danganronpa, and at one point in the game, the game gave you the choice to tell one of the other characters about a potential traitor in the group, but it was a fake choice, as the game forced you to pick not telling them anyways, which forced you into a 3 day argument with that person, where they would not talk to the main character, which is one of the things I enjoy about telltale, while the choices doesnt really change the overarcing story that much, you dont often get those frustrating moments, where the main character is just a complete fucking moron and does something completely stupid that totally ruins his relations with a person or something
Yes Danganronpa!!!!!
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sorry
You were saying?
Despite my excitement for that game and my love of the class trial system, you are right that Danganronpa isn't a game about choices unlike Telltale's games. Although that doesn't change the fact that protagonists can still be annoying in Telltale games and more specifically TWD.
Uhhh... I really wan't a Batman style liking mini-game when investigating the murders in Danganronpa. Although what would be perfect would be having a choice on how you link evidence together. That would be a great use of real choice in the Danganronpa series.
You are absolutely right that Danganronpa is not a game about choice, however I got really annoyed and pissed off, when it pretended to present me with a choice, only to have it not be a choice anyways.
Especially considering that the character being mad at you has every right to be mad, because she finally started trusting you, and you dont trust her in return, and she is also the smartest person out of the whole group, so the whole "I shouldnt tell anyone before I am sure, shouldnt be the case, because she is smart enough to not let it slip out. And since there is no story progression in all the time before they make up again anyways, having a real choice there would not change anything.
I also really love the Trial system, and the reason I found Danganronpa in the first place, was actually my love for the Ace Attorney games. Ironically, I now like Danganronpa alot more than Ace Attorney, due to me not feeling like it wastes my time nearly as much as Ace Attorney sometimes does. Dont get me wrong, Ace Attorney is amazing, but very very slow paced, and Danganronpa still manages to be a long game, despite me not feeling that it had alot of downtime, probably because I was so utterly engrossed in the game the entire time I played it, I dont think I have ever played a game that drew me in quite like Danganronpa. However, I also have a hard time playing that game, with how frequently it tears your beating heart out of your chest and stomps on your emotions. After spending time with someone, and then having them killed, not unlike TWD actually, but I always felt more sad in Danganronpa, due to the unfairness of the situation.
There is one situation in particular that I will never be able to accept, and it utterly destroyed me, if you have played Danganronpa 2, I probably only need to say: The execution at the end of chapter 5 was so unfair, and even though I finished the game 2 days ago, I am still having trouble accepting it, of course, if you didnt like said character that was executed, or didnt play Danganronpa 2, I am looking like a fool right now :P, but considering your reaction when I mentions Danganronpa, I assume you have played it.
To me, Danganronpa was actually less of a game, although it was still really fun to play, and more of an experience, unfolding the mystery of Hopes Peak Academy, and also the murders, as well as the bleakness of the situation. The music is also on point, all the tracks just immerses you into the world and fits so well with the entire theme of the game.
Well,Danganronpa is a kinetic Visual Novel with gameplay (like Ace Attorney) and I don't see how can be possible compare that VN with a Telltale game
PS:btw I'm happy to not be the only DR fan here! XD
Yeah, I know its not compareable, the game just rubbed me the wrong way by presenting a fake choice which created fake drama in the group which was unnecessary
DR is a story that itself haven't choices (the only thing that you can really choice is which one of the other students you want to know more) because his own focus it's the plot and the investigation/classtrials.
Btw VN and TTG are not comparable because usually in the VN medium choices really matter (even if I must admit that it is obvious because VN are more like the "chose your adventure" books but with music and graphics and for this reason there is no problem to show really different outcomes from a choice)
PS2: I suppose that will be wise from me end this off topic with this Wikipedia article about what is a Visual Novel
Yeah, I know Danganronpa doesnt have choices, which is why it annoyed me when it posed me a choice of "Tell her" or "Dont tell her", where the tell her option ends in Makoto thinking "I dont know the whole story yet, so I should not tell her", which is annoying, why even put a player input if youre not gonna aknowledge said players input, I was fully prepared to not make a choice, but when it puts a player input choice, but then doesnt let you chose anyways, its a bit annoying
I love the gameplay of Danganronpa btw, and I am not saying it needs choices, I am just saying that I think false choices should not exist, and that they should not have had a player input there at all if they did not want to allow you to pick one anyways
Oh man I can't wait for Danganronpa V3
Heh, I dunno, on the one side, I am super exited, but on the other end, its probably gonna destroy me emotionally when my favorite characters inevitably die, DR2 had me going for a while, thinking that my favorite character would survive, until she got unfairly executed in chapter 5, so I have lost all hope (lol) for any of my favorite characters to survive anymore :P
My favorite character survived DR2 so I got lucky.
Lucky you :P, I guess you could say the status of my favorite character is up to interpretation
I liked her and all but you have to admit chapter 5's victim was one smart person.
By the way did you do the Free Time Events for characters? Those add a lot more to them.
To me there was such a big difference between the first seasons and S3 too, when it comes to the impact of decisions. In S1 you had that thing at the end of it that showed with which people you ended up and there were like 9 options. In S3, literally nothing has any impact on anything. It'll only change a small scene
He was definitely smart, but that whole situation was sketchy as heck.
I did free time events for some of the characters, I havent really played island mode yet.
I definitely like how the free time events often help to offset some of the different characters "quirks" so to speak, some of the characters definitely come off as unlikeable before you get to know them
I do hope that they manage to bring back some of the more creepy/suspense vibe in V3, while DR2 was very good and enjoyable, I felt like it was missing some of the suspense and creepiness the first one had, partly because of the setting, DR1's setting was alot more suspenseful, and it fit really well, but it is probably also partly because DR1 was the first one, and since Danganronpa is a pretty "weird and certainly very different" type of game, the likes of which you mostly only find in Japan, the wowfactor of the whole concept was probably a bit less in the Sequel, but the setting for V3 seems like it might be able to recapture some of that feel, although I still think the School is gonna be my favorite setting, just because High school students killing each other in a school feels more wrong in a way than on an island, I dunno.