S3 Story Progression - Lazy?
AggressiveExile
Banned
For me, after thinking about how the story moves forward in S3, it seems that the same 2 things are used every time:
1 - TNF attacks unexpectedly.
2 - A zombie horde.
We are only 2 episodes in, but in season 1 and 2 far more immersive and interesting stuff happened.
Is this intentional (given that the two episodes were released at the same time), lazy, or do I need to get a life?
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It's true, they have a pacing problem and really should resolve the scenes a bit more elegant, without walkers/raiders suddenly jumping out from the bushes. That's not a new problem however, S2 did that as well. More important for me would be a story arc that spans over the season and the story finally breaking out of the circle of: finding a community -> getting part of that community -> watching community getting destroyed -> repeat. I see (or imagine) signs that S3 could do better than S2 here.
A lot of people seem really quick to label Telltale as lazy whenever the story doesn't go in the direction they want it to.
No Telltale isn't lazy, they work hard on these amazing games for us and they deserve better than this.
Yeah, it's pretty lazy. But for different reasons.
Yeah, of course... people have to accept that there's only one formula after 4 years when there's not gameplay and the only thing that really matters in the game is the story... Ok.
Things get boring, buddy. Also, working hard in something doesn't mean it is good or it is going to be good, and just because you have low standards it doesn't mean everyone need to have as well.
My standards are not low. Just because I love it and you don't doesn't mean my standards are low. Criticism is fine, but I'm sick of these uncalled for comments calling Telltale lazy.
I agree, this action packed approach is screwing up the game's pacing. Everything just moves WAY too fast, and usually in some pretty repetitive ways too.
TT really needs to break this formula.
As someone, myself, who has followed this company for a long time and suck by them through thick and thin, it's not hard to see that they are getting lazy. Liking the game is an opinion and you're free to like it, but seeing that a game is dropping in quality is clear.
Even the strongest community must fall right after the main hero comes say hi.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
(I know you're not fixing it)
To me the pacing was off along with several other things. And it's not because "it didn't go my way >:(" its just that telltale really has no clue what they're doing or what they want to do and it painfully shows in the game.
Telltale have Mass Effect 3 syndrome.
By that I mean they have created this great ongoing story but have felt that, three parts in, new players will feel left out.
So now they are crafting it with the most fleeting of callbacks to the previous two seasons for that very reason. They have built an audience they know will buy the game but want to pull in those who have heard of their titles but have never played them.
I don't think they are be lazy, I just think they are making the wrong call by making the game for those who haven't yet played. This part of the Walking Dead franchise has been around for a while now, people know about it. By making the game as they are they may pull in sales from new people but they may not stay around and they have the risk of alienating the people who have bought the previous two seasons.
New Frontier is not a bad game by any stretch. I just think Telltale are giving up a bit too much of who they are to try and pull in a new audience.
Sorry for the ramble.
glad you're reading my comments fully. (;
Last time I checked they split an episode into 2 shorter episodes and last time I checked there were more and bigger hub areas
When your community has been great for a long time and then some new guy comes and fucks it all up but you trust your life in him and dont really care about that community cuz lmao Javi my new main man
i'm someone who has always stuck up for telltale for the past 4 years nearly and honestly after releasing season 3 i can 100% say they deserve the criticism you can't deny whats in front of you even if you do like the game
Wonderful example.
If anyone is reading this, I would like to add a few things (and I love reading all the comments!):
I do like S3 and the new characters, its just that it seems somewhat... Uneventful? I mean, I have only played through S1 and 2 once but I could list off everything in those episodes from start to finish. It was all just so well written, original, memorable, and I hope the same for S3 to come.
Anyways, I have read other threads on ideas for the story (ie Clementine emotionally breaking down) so if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.
I, personally, would love to see another scene where Clementine overcomes an unbearable amount of physical pain (ie pulling a bullet out of her arm, similar to S2) or a fistfight between Tripp and Javi? idk
I think Insipid is a better word to use than Lazy. But other than that I agree with you, Telltale has played themselves out with the Walking Dead at this point. It basically a one trick pony at this point.
I've never really been mad at Telltale before until this, through the lies they told us that would be in season 3, how long it took for such an on rails experience, you can see how lazy they are. I also constantly defended them saying how much I doubted they would do something like killing Kenny and Jane in 5 mins, but now I just look like a fool. You can tell there is a ton of laziness and no charm. Take borderlands for example, you could tell Telltale really cared and tried, put a ton of effort into it. S3 just feels like a bad joke.
I can deny it, because I don't see it. If people want to be disappointed, fine be disappointed. You want to criticize the game then criticize it, but what I take issue with is calling Telltale lazy and trying to tell me how wrong I am when I disagree. Comments like "I didn't like that, I think Telltale really could've done that better" is fine what isn't okay is "Telltale's just lazy, they only care about money" or whatever other insulting things you want to say about the company itself.
Before you all try to explain to me how wrong I am, just don't. If you disagree than fine, disagree, but don't act like you're right and I'm wrong.
You know, I'm honestly conflicted on how to feel about Telltale at times
On one hand, now and again they really do put a lot of passion and effort into a game, like with TWD S1 or TFTBL
But then other times, they take a major character like Kenny that everyone was hoping wouldn't die 5 minutes after they were reintroduced... and killed them 5 minutes after they were reintroduced
Or they do something like the traitor in GoT...
But then they go and post concept art from Batman and it looks really cool and it makes me think that Batman was another series they put definite effort into, despite some of the relatively middling reviews it's gotten
And now they're talking about how they are listening to fan feedback and I want to trust them when they say that but I don't know
They constantly teeter the line between dropping the ball, and knocking the ball out of the park and into the stratosphere
Unfortunately, I think this is something TWD as a franchise is doomed to, given that it was basically sold as 'the zombie movie that never ends'
You can only take the 'never-ending story' concept so far before it just starts to lose the substance that made it interesting to begin with. If you're lucky, it can take decades or more for that to happen. In other cases, you can run the well dry within years.
With that being said though, I don't know if I'd say Telltale has fully played it out yet. There's still some interesting twists and turns they could take, but it does seem like the well is starting to dry up a bit. Which is a shame, but you know, c'est la vie.
I really love this series, and I've stuck by it for years now, but if its time in the limelight is beginning to fade... well, then it is what it is.
I feel like Batman still had alot of love put in though. I mean the bad performance issues on pc didnt help for reviews there. Also I feel like it wasn't well advertised.
However, you could tell there was a TON of more love put into it. There was a ton of behind the scenes videos they showed, and a 40 minute web series they did where they talked about the game. Even the writers came here and talked to fans. It was fun, you could see the people working on the game cared.
Now we have season 3. We have 1 video talking about behind the scenes. We dont have a Playing Dead show. No writers or Telltale staff that really work on the game have come and said anything. Best thing we got was Community Mangers stopping by once, and now they just hide in the Batman section.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
You can tell the team working on Batman was passionate, more than some people gave the game credit for. With all due respect to the Batman team though, I'm not sure I'd say it's on the same level as S1 or Tales... but that's just me talking. I felt those two fired on all the cylinders, more or less. Batman had a few things here and there holding it back just a little bit more than they did.
But S3 just seems... well, it doesn't seem as sincere, for lack of a better term. I mean, I know there's people working on it that definitely want it to turn out for the best, but by and large it just doesn't seem like Telltale has that same enthusiasm when they talk/tweet/post about it as they did with the other seasons. It feels a bit... hollow.
There is a ton of things that show there was laziness though.
Example: All the music is reused from Season 1 and 2 except Prescott. Even Conrad's bar was reused from Wolf Among Us. That song was recycled from Sam and Max, but it was modified so it was different. In Season 3 the song is the exact same as the Trip Trap Bar.
Kenny, Jane, and Edith's models look like no effort was put in them at all, flashbacks remove your season 2 endings in 3 minutes in scenes that were just disrespectful to the characters. Choices are given to us that have no impact at all (Take Ava's deal or not, what was the point if 30 seconds later Clem tells Javi she joined anyway) Reused models are used constantly. Pretty sure half the reason Season 1's bandits/bad guys wore mask so it doesn't look weird when you kill the same guy over and over again.
We wont know until later how Conrad turns out, but if its anything like Season 2 or how Kenny and Jane were handled, get ready for Conrad to act like he isnt even there anymore until he dies. One thing about the lazy writing is, now when a character is determinate, you just know they will die. Why should anyone care about Conrad anymore if you didnt shoot him? Hes just marked for death, we already know he will die. Also things like Eleanor or Tripp. Go with Tripp in the day, get there same time if you left on horse in the night. Its early in the morning, however the moment they get to Prescott its noon and then night really quick. Its like Luke in ep 5 saying his birthday is today even thought based on the choice of leave now or later, it shouldnt be. Telltale needs to consider time, because things like that make no sense.
This is just scratching the surface on things that are lazy, not even including any of the lies Telltale said about the game before it released.
In defense of that one, Luke quickly follows up by saying "Near as I can tell, at least... definitely this week."
That one has some kind of justification behind it, at least.
Yup. And yeah I forgot to mention that, Batman definitely wasnt as cared and put into as a game like Tales or S1, but you could Telltale there was a lot of work and pride put into it.
The problem with Season 3 is it feels like Telltale just doesnt care about it. They hyped it up for so long for it to be something so low compared to the past two seasons.
I personally liked Season 2. I thought it was very well done. It wasnt as good as Season 1 and yes it did have flaws, but overall I found it a very good game and I would recommend it if you played Season 1. Michonne is where I think the first dips starting to really show. For example there was a pretty big emphasis on action, and shock value, getting farther away from character development. I mean Berto doesnt even speak, and then he just dies. Like, why should I care at all about Berto, we never even talked to him or heard him say anything but like a mumbbled "yes." But Season 3 just turns everything around. Its almost like Telltale saw everything people didnt like about Season 2 and Michonne, and cranked it to 11.
Kinda, but its still something that easily could have been "my birthday was yesterday" even, change it a little.
But seriously, I hate how fast that day goes in ep 2. Like, they get there EARLY in the morning, and they get back its night. It wasnt that far.
Rest assured, I liked S2 as well. If I didn't know better, I'd say I'm one of the more stalwart defenders of S2 on here. I liked S1 just a little bit more, though. And honestly, I think the general consensus is the same.
From what I can tell, Telltale's highest rated games (of their modern games at least) are: TWD S1, TFTBL, TWAU, and TWD S2.
The first three are generally considered the gold standard from what I've seen. S2's a bit more mixed in comparison, but the popular opinion on S2 as a whole seems to be "Good, but not quite as good as S1"
Can't say I agree with you regarding Michonne, though. I mean yeah, some characters definitely could have been handled better (like Berto), but at the same time, I thought a majority of the cast and their interactions with one another were quite good; Pete and Michonne's relationship was neat (especially considering how every other relationship Michonne has had with a guy has gone before), Sam was relatively interesting, and Norma and Randall were a good pair of antagonists. And I felt those five characters were more than enough to carry the miniseries by themselves. I'd take a smaller but more focused cast like that over a larger group with less individual focus, such as let's say, the cabin group.
You know, now that you mention it, the game's had some trouble with the day/night cycle before.
How about escaping the motel in S1? It's still bright out as they smash through the gate, but then as soon as the next scene loads, its suddenly dark out. And the dialogue implies that it is a direct continuation of the last scene. Unless they all decided to sit around in silence for an hour before they started talking about what just happened.
Or the beginning of In Harm's Way. It's still bright out, Carver says they're probably 30 minutes away from Howe's, and when they get there, it's already dark. Again.
Oh, and again in the Michonne miniseries, I suppose. When you're on the boat at the begining, it's early morning, sun's not even up yet. When you get to the ferry, the sun has just come up. When you get taken to Monroe, it looks like late afternoon. And when episode 2 starts... it's night time yet again.
Don't forget Arvo, Natasha, Buricko, and Vitali patrolling that same road for days waiting for Clementine/Jane to come by so they get back at her for robbing Arvo.
What is this referencing exactly?
Yeah, admittedly, as much as I like the idea of the Cabin Group, the fact that they mostly functioned as a unit before being rendered irrelevent by Kenny and Jane really didn't help. Though that's also
a reflection of the shorter episode lengths, as Season 1 also had a fairly large group at first.
I wouldn't mind if they did something like that but telltale would get so much backlash so I'm not sure if they'd do it.
I think the problem is that TWD has a few problems being a huge, expansive story. Season 2 had a "cabin group who was chased by a dangerous man, fleeing to a ski lodge; once arrived they were captured and brought into his camp. The camp was overrun so they escaped after killing the main baddie. They stopped at a Civil war memorial, where the pregnant lady gave birth to her child.
soon after leaving, they were attacked by a russian group, forcing them to flee. After taking a hostage and camping out in a construction building, the group ruptures and 3 people leave the building; Jane, Kenny, and Clem are all who are left. A fight breaks loose in a rest stop, and clementine leaves with AJ, all alone."
Now that's big. I feel like Telltale's stuff could benefit from smaller-scale plots.
The comics, and how Michonne has basically thrown herself at every moderately good-looking black man that she has come across
Pete is the only moderately good-looking black man she hasn't tried to fuck yet
Oh, wonderful. Well, I guess they do say use what ya momma gave ya and Colette and Elodie ain;t got it yet.
And distracted as fuck.
Sorry? What do you mean?
It was supposed to be a story about Clementine helping the Cabin Group escape from their past mistakes and the tyrant that used to be their friend, but it was more interested in hyping a fight between Kenny and Luke and living off pandering than actually focusing on any of that.
I mean they sloppily threw away Kenny and Jane and new what backlash they would get