And I'm playing the game because I bought it, stop telling me I shouldn't be playing it. Can a mod close this thread? This guy is just instigating arguments
As I said in another comment, imagine that later you have to chose between saving Gabe and Kate or saving Clem. What would you do ? Save Cle… morem ? Even if it doesn't make any sense at all ? Just because it's your decision and no one can tell you what to do ?
I don't think my decision of sideing with Conrad was the right decision, I would have loved to kill him, protect Clem and do everything I can to make her story great. But this is not about me, or what I want, it's about ME IN JAVI'S SHOES. The second you start playing a game (ANY GAME) it's about what would you do if you were the main character.
You can disagree and you can do whatever you want but why are you playing a game then, just go watch the show, or watch someone else play the games.
I don't think my decision of sideing with Conrad was the right decision, I would have loved to kill him, protect Clem and do everything I can to make her story great. But this is not about me, or what I want, it's about ME IN JAVI'S SHOES. The second you start playing a game (ANY GAME) it's about what would you do if you were the main character.
No. No its not. Just because to you it is doesnt mean thats what everyone has to do
As I said in another comment, imagine that later you have to chose between saving Gabe and Kate or saving Clem. What would you do ? Save Cle… morem ? Even if it doesn't make any sense at all ? Just because it's your decision and no one can tell you what to do ?
I don't think my decision of sideing with Conrad was the right decision, I would have loved to kill him, protect Clem and do everything I can to make her story great. But this is not about me, or what I want, it's about ME IN JAVI'S SHOES. The second you start playing a game (ANY GAME) it's about what would you do if you were the main character.
You can disagree and you can do whatever you want but why are you playing a game then, just go watch the show, or watch someone else play the games.
You're entitled to your opinion on how one should play a TELLTALE game.
But guess what? So am I. And if I wanna protect Clementine, one of like 3 people in this season I care about, I'll fucking do it.
Sure, one can look at it in Javier's shoes, and that's a decent viewpoint to have. But I haven't known Javier for 5 years, have I? I'm totally okay with admitting that I'm biased towards Clementine. Sue me.
There is no choice Telltale could present me with to get me to turn against Clem. I'll let every Garcia die 10 times over to save Clem from a minor injury. If Telltale thought for even a second that anything but the vast majority of players would do anything to more than minorly inconvineice Clem at any point, than that just shows that they didnt think this season through.
That's not on me, its not my failing, its Telltale's.
Anyways Conrad held a Gun to Gabe's head. If you capitulated to his demands, you're a really crappy uncle.
Um, no. You can't tell someone how they are supposed to play the game. The whole point is for the player to play how they see fit. If it where meant to be played a certain way then we wouldn't have choices - as small as they are. So that accusation is moot.
Second, I didn't kill Conrad. Why? It's not because I don't love Clem - because like many I have been with this series since Season 1 - I told myself that I would play Javier as someone who just met Clem. And if some strange dude I just met took my nephew hostage I wouldn't do anything rash that could get him killed. So for me, the logical thing to do was to 'agree" with Conrad. That was to only ensure Gabe's safety.
But I also like that Javier made it clear that they would do things his way, not Conrad. And once they made it to the gates of Richmond, again, he makes it clear that Clem is not their prisoner, she did not drag them into her fight, and that she was a friend.
Now will I say that's the correct way to play? Heck no. Because we all play how we want. I didn't have Javier feed into the obvious romance that TT is trying to push on you between him and Kate. But clearly others have. Would I say they are playing wrong? Nope. So please stop it.
Um, no. You can't tell someone how they are supposed to play the game. The whole point is for the player to play how they see fit. If it whe… morere meant to be played a certain way then we wouldn't have choices - as small as they are. So that accusation is moot.
Second, I didn't kill Conrad. Why? It's not because I don't love Clem - because like many I have been with this series since Season 1 - I told myself that I would play Javier as someone who just met Clem. And if some strange dude I just met took my nephew hostage I wouldn't do anything rash that could get him killed. So for me, the logical thing to do was to 'agree" with Conrad. That was to only ensure Gabe's safety.
But I also like that Javier made it clear that they would do things his way, not Conrad. And once they made it to the gates of Richmond, again, he makes it clear that Clem is not their prisoner, she did not drag them into her fight, and that she was a friend.
Now will… [view original content]
There is no choice Telltale could present me with to get me to turn against Clem. I'll let every Garcia die 10 times over to save Clem from … morea minor injury. If Telltale thought for even a second that anything but the vast majority of players would do anything to more than minorly inconvineice Clem at any point, than that just shows that they didnt think this season through.
That's not on me, its not my failing, its Telltale's.
Anyways Conrad held a Gun to Gabe's head. If you capitulated to his demands, you're a really crappy uncle.
Yeah Javier was a good idea on paper, but didn't end up paying off. They tried to please everyone and instead pissed everyone off in one way or another. They should've made her the protagonist with Jane, Kenny, or someone from Wellington as running characters. Hopefully they can manage to wrap up Javier, make him a leader or some shit, and put him off screen doing leader thangs. Then we can just chill with Clementine again.
You're entitled to your opinion on how one should play a TELLTALE game.
But guess what? So am I. And if I wanna protect Clementine, one o… moref like 3 people in this season I care about, I'll fucking do it.
Sure, one can look at it in Javier's shoes, and that's a decent viewpoint to have. But I haven't known Javier for 5 years, have I? I'm totally okay with admitting that I'm biased towards Clementine. Sue me.
Yeah Javier was a good idea on paper, but didn't end up paying off. They tried to please everyone and instead pissed everyone off in one way… more or another. They should've made her the protagonist with Jane, Kenny, or someone from Wellington as running characters. Hopefully they can manage to wrap up Javier, make him a leader or some shit, and put him off screen doing leader thangs. Then we can just chill with Clementine again.
But still 95% of players did chose to kill Conrad, and that's a problem because it means that** players didn't play the game in the way that was intended** by the dev.
Yes you did. There is no intended way to play. You play how you want. Period. If TT wanted you to play a certain way then you wouldn't have been given options. If Conrad was supposed to have died no matter what the player decided he would be dead. But right now, in my game, and like 5% of other players who went that way, he is very much alive.
I don't think they should have done that and i believe they could have Javier and Clementine as co-playable characters if they did it correctly. If they slowly eased Jaiver into the main character position while having Clementine as a relevant playable character i think people would be ok and would warm up to Javier. By just making Javier the main character and reducing clementine to a supporting character with 10 minutes of semi-playability time did more harm to Javier than intended.
I wasn't going to say any thing to you cus i was thinking you joking but i took a look to your profile. you are new than i undrstand that why you said that.
Let me tell you somthing all telltale games are far away from the choices matters and your choice maybe your last if you hear that from telltale its a big lie have been Proven in this season its a joke.
B...but...
"Choice matters: the story changes based on your decisions."
~
"... in a story where every choice you make could be your last."
Source: https://telltale.com/series/the-walking-dead-a-new-frontier/
I do agree with your thoughts on Javier, but it's all subjective. The beauty of Telltale games is that you can pick whatever options you want. It's not really fair to say that this is the only way to play a game because it's the most logical.
As for me yes, I shot Conrad. The guy was holding Gabe at gunpoint. What uncle wouldn't defend his nephew?
When Clementine asked me to lie for her, I did so because he came at us with the intention to kill us. I wasn't going to defend his honor at that point. What Clementine did was an accident. Sure, it was a stupid accident, but nobody is perfect.
As for the hostage situation, she took action and saved my life. She was the only one there who had my back when they put a gun to my head even though I gave myself up to save one of them. Clem: 1, Prescott gang: 0
As for shooting Conrad? He tried to get me to sell out the only person who consistently had my back that day by putting a gun to my nephew's head. Killing him was excessive over a disagreement, but he was the idiot who escalted it to that point. I didnt owe him in the same way I owed Clementine, and she never threatened the life of someone I care about in order for me to do something fucked up. It would've been an easy choice if both characters were new characters.
This will end up turning out like my thread about the same issue.
But it's a breath of fresh air to see more people seeing this problem.
The main reasons people chose to shoot Conrad as i have discovered is
1: Clementine
2: Because of Gabe
3: Because they thought Conrad was a nut. in other words his not a child or a fan favourite so he has to be killed.
Now, Let's think about this as we are the player, not who we like and hate, but us as who we are playing.
Season 1: We are Lee, we meet Clementine and become friends, we help her, we learn her to deal with the ZA and to harden her, Lee gets bit, and we give all our knowledge as Lee to her.
Season 2: We are now Clementine, so we play as Clementine and we use everything Lee taught us to trust people and to live Clementines life.
Season 3: We are Javier, a man who has had a rough road with his family, he wants to protect his family, he gets lost from them, He meets Clementine, who almost killed him by cutting the tree down, says she would've killed the truck driver, Blackmails him by saying she will take him to his family, only to take their car and to leave them stranded with no supplies and no car, then she kills a man in cold blood and wants Javier to lie for her despite the mess he'd get into. She wants him to stay a fight with her, rather then check on Kate and Gabe, She lies to him about her involvement with the new frontier, Now, if we are playing as Javier, why on earth would we trust someone who done that?
And if you think about it, people didn't even think about the situation, if Javier chose to shoot Conrad what would've happened if Conrad got the shot on Gabe? Then Conrad and Gabe would be dead for what? Clementine? They didn't think it over properly, once he said something ill about her people wanted to kill him or disliked him more then the Gabe thing sealed the deal. If you choose to agree with Conrad, Clementine doesn't desert you, everyone is still in the group and that's the logical thing to do. If Clementine made mistakes with The new frontier, she needs to be held accountable to it, not get off free because everyone loves her. The fact that the majority choose to lie for her after her killing a guy in cold blood is disturbing. And before anyone says anything
A: Eli was unarmed
B: Clementine may of not known about the real bullets, but she was pointing the gun and clicking it in front of his face, which is so wrong and something Lee would only tell her to do if she was going to hurt somebody, so in a way, she either wanted to shoot him, or she betrayed Lee, probably both.
As messed up as it is, i would bet that the decision to save Clementine over Kate and Gabe would be the same % if not more biased towards saving Clementine. Take out the ones who play the game on a different save with the alternate decisions, on their first and proper playthrough, im willing to bet that it would be 95% at it's lowest that people would save Clementine over Gabe and Kate.
I mean, look at how many sided with her when a player wanted to use her as a bargaining chip, imagine how they would react if there was an option where if you didn't choose her, she would die? The only ones who would not choose her, would be the one's who hate her and that's a SMALL field of people.
A lot of replies are about the fact that the problem doesn't come from the player but from the dev. And I agree, yes it was a mistake to hav… moree the player play as Javier and have Clem in the story. They could have continued Clem's story from her point of view or made us play Javier but without Clem around.
But now it's done and they can't come back. Now I wonder how far they are going to go. Imagine for a second that in the rest of season 3 Javier is confronted with the choice of saving Clem or saving both his son and Kate. Would you really save Clem and then blame the dev for being dumb ?
I wont, what's done is done, they screwed up now I move forward and forget about it.
But hey you are free to do whatever you want, if you want to do it this way it's your choice, I am just disapointed that so many people didn't even gave a chance to Javier and are just playing to protect Clem.
Think of it that way: if u see a choice that people chose 1 choice over another heavily then you know you didn't get the split that is the formula of telltale's choices...95% choose to kill Conrad and save clem...they didn't know how to make that choice more split-tabel
Exactly! I play as myself- my real life personality and self. Thats what the game is for. For you to make your own descions (descions is a questionable word but whatever)
Playing as the character is not whats intended by the devs. they just thought people werent above killing for clem.
They thought wrong.
I killed Conrad and i dont regret it-although i really did like him-he was a family-tight man and i felt his death was too premature but still Clem above all.
And dont say clem "left"- ay bossman, we all know shes coming back smh.
Telltale have fell in to the trap of something called "Charachter Bias" or a "Mcguffin"- In which i didnt think they'd fall for it.
Charahcter bias happens when the player/audience knows something/someone before the ingame character, in this case, CLEMENTINE.
Please try to forget anything you know about Clem from season 1 and 2.
you still must chose as if you were Javier.
players are biased… more and can't get rid of their feelings about Clem and everything they know about her.
Telltale should've he made a decision to either make Clem the main protagonist, or completely leave her, to not create this dissonance between thinking what Javier would do, and or own real life feelings. Because this IS a continuation of S1 and 2, and they can not ask us to not take that into consideration.
How can I help it if she has been here since 2012?
I can't just turn it of, it's like watching a book adaptation but trying to look critical at it without looking at it as a fan for me
This will end up turning out like my thread about the same issue.
But it's a breath of fresh air to see more people seeing this problem.
… moreThe main reasons people chose to shoot Conrad as i have discovered is
1: Clementine
2: Because of Gabe
3: Because they thought Conrad was a nut. in other words his not a child or a fan favourite so he has to be killed.
Now, Let's think about this as we are the player, not who we like and hate, but us as who we are playing.
Season 1: We are Lee, we meet Clementine and become friends, we help her, we learn her to deal with the ZA and to harden her, Lee gets bit, and we give all our knowledge as Lee to her.
Season 2: We are now Clementine, so we play as Clementine and we use everything Lee taught us to trust people and to live Clementines life.
Season 3: We are Javier, a man who has had a rough road with his family, he wants to protect his family, he gets lost from them, He meets Clementine, who al… [view original content]
This will end up turning out like my thread about the same issue.
But it's a breath of fresh air to see more people seeing this problem.
… moreThe main reasons people chose to shoot Conrad as i have discovered is
1: Clementine
2: Because of Gabe
3: Because they thought Conrad was a nut. in other words his not a child or a fan favourite so he has to be killed.
Now, Let's think about this as we are the player, not who we like and hate, but us as who we are playing.
Season 1: We are Lee, we meet Clementine and become friends, we help her, we learn her to deal with the ZA and to harden her, Lee gets bit, and we give all our knowledge as Lee to her.
Season 2: We are now Clementine, so we play as Clementine and we use everything Lee taught us to trust people and to live Clementines life.
Season 3: We are Javier, a man who has had a rough road with his family, he wants to protect his family, he gets lost from them, He meets Clementine, who al… [view original content]
There is NO set way of playing a Telltale game. It's Clem's story and they took that away from us. I'm not changing how I view Clementine (a… morend so won't many others). I'm too invested in Clem and I want to see the continuation of HER story, not some random new dude who I don't give the tiniest fuck about.
Oh and Conrad will die in Episode 3 regardless of your choice.
While it's true that Conrad wasn't a likeable character to begin with, don't fool yourself. Most people would still have sided with Clementine if Conrad was 100% in the right and had dozens of well-funded arguments and was generally the nicest dude ever simply because she's Clementine. See the Eli choice: Clem was clearly in the wrong, yet everyone defended her (and we didn't even get an option to really throw her under the bus in the first place).
Telltale's writing made this choice way too simple. Of course it feels bias because she's someone we've known 3 seasons vs someone they've j… moreust introduced. Honestly had they not made Conrad an idiot and made him more tragic, giving him a good argument as to why they should use her as a bargaining chip instead of going postal and over the top maybe more people would have sided with him or at least understood
If I didn't know Clementine I would have still shot Conrad, holding my nephew hostage to prove a point and acting like a lunatic at the brink of exploding wasn't sitting right for me. I even would've accepted the plan save for Conrad's behavior. But even if some players chose to side with Clem because they know her isn't dramatic, they payed good money to play it the way they enjoy it most. There's no way to "play right" a Telltale game, and I think it's what makes this formula enjoyable otherwise we'd be stuck with a completely linear story (inb4 someone tells me that New Frontier is already linear to which I agree to a certain extent, but we'll have to wait the end of the season to measure it on the choices-matter-o-meter).
I agree that we are way too biased but, most of Clem's actions are justified. That dude attacked Javi first and sold fake bullets. Karma came back to him and killed him. Conrad? Not a fan of him. Emotional wreck and took a hostage.
I first wanted to leave that group and get back with my family, but Clem made good points with buying them time and, if we kill them now, they won't be bothering us.
I know we are biased and we don't know Clem, but do we have to be an asshole to Clem ? If there is a another way without hurting her, then might as well go that way. I agree though and I also saw this problem. We are biased, but Clem made good points
I agree. Do Javi only or Clem only. It is completely ruined. Not only that biased thing. It feels like S1 and S2 were for nothing, because it's not Clem's story anymore. Her main purpose in this story is probably the money magnet.
Your post shows perfectly, why it was a bad decision to move the focus from Clementine to a new playable character. Her story didn't end wit… moreh Season 2. They should've made her the playable character or didn't involve her at all. There is no in between.
They could've market ANF as a seperate series, like fear the walking dead was for the show, and no one would be as pissed right now. Telltale's misstake was to satisfy the Hardcore Fans, while at the same time bring in new players.
I actually like Javier and his Story, but he gets overshadowed by Clementines presence alone.
I agree with what your saying, though I didn't shoot Conrad just for Clementine. He grabbed Gabe and held him as a hostage just for his own personal vendetta. That was the line for me. The one point earlier for me was when you had to choose to back Clem up when she killed that one arms dealer guy. There was no real reason why I should be held liable for her actions and no history for a reason for me to back her up. I did of course cause I know Clem, but Javi wouldn't have known her or had any reason. I mean I still probably would have lied anyways since her actions were justified in my opinion, and he did try and kill me and Clem.
See the Eli choice: Clem was clearly in the wrong, yet everyone defended her (and we didn't even get an option to really throw her under the bus in the first place).
That's because Eli was supposed to be an acceptable target.
While it's true that Conrad wasn't a likeable character to begin with, don't fool yourself. Most people would still have sided with Clementi… morene if Conrad was 100% in the right and had dozens of well-funded arguments and was generally the nicest dude ever simply because she's Clementine. See the Eli choice: Clem was clearly in the wrong, yet everyone defended her (and we didn't even get an option to really throw her under the bus in the first place).
See the Eli choice: Clem was clearly in the wrong, yet everyone defended her
Everyone is a blanket statement. I didn't defend her because Telltale has fucked up writing her as a character. Telltale knows how the fanbase feels about Clementine so putting her up against characters who are poorly written, one dimensional and unlikable is a stupid writing decision. Seriously Conrad's reasoning was so generically bland and poor I'm honestly struggling to think anyone seriously sided with him.
While it's true that Conrad wasn't a likeable character to begin with, don't fool yourself. Most people would still have sided with Clementi… morene if Conrad was 100% in the right and had dozens of well-funded arguments and was generally the nicest dude ever simply because she's Clementine. See the Eli choice: Clem was clearly in the wrong, yet everyone defended her (and we didn't even get an option to really throw her under the bus in the first place).
Comments
And I'm playing the game because I bought it, stop telling me I shouldn't be playing it. Can a mod close this thread? This guy is just instigating arguments
No. No its not. Just because to you it is doesnt mean thats what everyone has to do
You're entitled to your opinion on how one should play a TELLTALE game.
But guess what? So am I. And if I wanna protect Clementine, one of like 3 people in this season I care about, I'll fucking do it.
Sure, one can look at it in Javier's shoes, and that's a decent viewpoint to have. But I haven't known Javier for 5 years, have I? I'm totally okay with admitting that I'm biased towards Clementine. Sue me.
There is no choice Telltale could present me with to get me to turn against Clem. I'll let every Garcia die 10 times over to save Clem from a minor injury. If Telltale thought for even a second that anything but the vast majority of players would do anything to more than minorly inconvineice Clem at any point, than that just shows that they didnt think this season through.
That's not on me, its not my failing, its Telltale's.
Anyways Conrad held a Gun to Gabe's head. If you capitulated to his demands, you're a really crappy uncle.
Um, no. You can't tell someone how they are supposed to play the game. The whole point is for the player to play how they see fit. If it where meant to be played a certain way then we wouldn't have choices - as small as they are. So that accusation is moot.
Second, I didn't kill Conrad. Why? It's not because I don't love Clem - because like many I have been with this series since Season 1 - I told myself that I would play Javier as someone who just met Clem. And if some strange dude I just met took my nephew hostage I wouldn't do anything rash that could get him killed. So for me, the logical thing to do was to 'agree" with Conrad. That was to only ensure Gabe's safety.
But I also like that Javier made it clear that they would do things his way, not Conrad. And once they made it to the gates of Richmond, again, he makes it clear that Clem is not their prisoner, she did not drag them into her fight, and that she was a friend.
Now will I say that's the correct way to play? Heck no. Because we all play how we want. I didn't have Javier feed into the obvious romance that TT is trying to push on you between him and Kate. But clearly others have. Would I say they are playing wrong? Nope. So please stop it.
I don't see how being biased to a character you love is problem
That's simply not what I said.
(I'll let every Garcia die 10 times over to save Clem from a minor injury. )
lol
(you telling me how to play it is what's wrong)
Yeah Javier was a good idea on paper, but didn't end up paying off. They tried to please everyone and instead pissed everyone off in one way or another. They should've made her the protagonist with Jane, Kenny, or someone from Wellington as running characters. Hopefully they can manage to wrap up Javier, make him a leader or some shit, and put him off screen doing leader thangs. Then we can just chill with Clementine again.
This just proves telltale really didn't think this through when transitioning Javier as the main character and sidelining clementine.
Completely agreed, my snow-piss-covered friend.
Yes you did. There is no intended way to play. You play how you want. Period. If TT wanted you to play a certain way then you wouldn't have been given options. If Conrad was supposed to have died no matter what the player decided he would be dead. But right now, in my game, and like 5% of other players who went that way, he is very much alive.
Yeah, it would've been much better if they hadn't included Clem at all, not even as an NPC or cameo, in this season. Blunder on their part.
I don't think they should have done that and i believe they could have Javier and Clementine as co-playable characters if they did it correctly. If they slowly eased Jaiver into the main character position while having Clementine as a relevant playable character i think people would be ok and would warm up to Javier. By just making Javier the main character and reducing clementine to a supporting character with 10 minutes of semi-playability time did more harm to Javier than intended.
I wasn't going to say any thing to you cus i was thinking you joking but i took a look to your profile. you are new than i undrstand that why you said that.
Let me tell you somthing all telltale games are far away from the choices matters and your choice maybe your last if you hear that from telltale its a big lie have been Proven in this season its a joke.
I do agree with your thoughts on Javier, but it's all subjective. The beauty of Telltale games is that you can pick whatever options you want. It's not really fair to say that this is the only way to play a game because it's the most logical.
As for me yes, I shot Conrad. The guy was holding Gabe at gunpoint. What uncle wouldn't defend his nephew?
But it's just a game at the end of the day.
I'll just stay in my own shoes
Rip double post
Here's how I saw things through Javiers eyes...
When Clementine asked me to lie for her, I did so because he came at us with the intention to kill us. I wasn't going to defend his honor at that point. What Clementine did was an accident. Sure, it was a stupid accident, but nobody is perfect.
As for the hostage situation, she took action and saved my life. She was the only one there who had my back when they put a gun to my head even though I gave myself up to save one of them. Clem: 1, Prescott gang: 0
As for shooting Conrad? He tried to get me to sell out the only person who consistently had my back that day by putting a gun to my nephew's head. Killing him was excessive over a disagreement, but he was the idiot who escalted it to that point. I didnt owe him in the same way I owed Clementine, and she never threatened the life of someone I care about in order for me to do something fucked up. It would've been an easy choice if both characters were new characters.
This will end up turning out like my thread about the same issue.
But it's a breath of fresh air to see more people seeing this problem.
The main reasons people chose to shoot Conrad as i have discovered is
1: Clementine
2: Because of Gabe
3: Because they thought Conrad was a nut. in other words his not a child or a fan favourite so he has to be killed.
Now, Let's think about this as we are the player, not who we like and hate, but us as who we are playing.
Season 1: We are Lee, we meet Clementine and become friends, we help her, we learn her to deal with the ZA and to harden her, Lee gets bit, and we give all our knowledge as Lee to her.
Season 2: We are now Clementine, so we play as Clementine and we use everything Lee taught us to trust people and to live Clementines life.
Season 3: We are Javier, a man who has had a rough road with his family, he wants to protect his family, he gets lost from them, He meets Clementine, who almost killed him by cutting the tree down, says she would've killed the truck driver, Blackmails him by saying she will take him to his family, only to take their car and to leave them stranded with no supplies and no car, then she kills a man in cold blood and wants Javier to lie for her despite the mess he'd get into. She wants him to stay a fight with her, rather then check on Kate and Gabe, She lies to him about her involvement with the new frontier, Now, if we are playing as Javier, why on earth would we trust someone who done that?
And if you think about it, people didn't even think about the situation, if Javier chose to shoot Conrad what would've happened if Conrad got the shot on Gabe? Then Conrad and Gabe would be dead for what? Clementine? They didn't think it over properly, once he said something ill about her people wanted to kill him or disliked him more then the Gabe thing sealed the deal. If you choose to agree with Conrad, Clementine doesn't desert you, everyone is still in the group and that's the logical thing to do. If Clementine made mistakes with The new frontier, she needs to be held accountable to it, not get off free because everyone loves her. The fact that the majority choose to lie for her after her killing a guy in cold blood is disturbing. And before anyone says anything
A: Eli was unarmed
B: Clementine may of not known about the real bullets, but she was pointing the gun and clicking it in front of his face, which is so wrong and something Lee would only tell her to do if she was going to hurt somebody, so in a way, she either wanted to shoot him, or she betrayed Lee, probably both.
As messed up as it is, i would bet that the decision to save Clementine over Kate and Gabe would be the same % if not more biased towards saving Clementine. Take out the ones who play the game on a different save with the alternate decisions, on their first and proper playthrough, im willing to bet that it would be 95% at it's lowest that people would save Clementine over Gabe and Kate.
I mean, look at how many sided with her when a player wanted to use her as a bargaining chip, imagine how they would react if there was an option where if you didn't choose her, she would die? The only ones who would not choose her, would be the one's who hate her and that's a SMALL field of people.
No, the fact that we are biased is not the problem. The problem is that you have to force yourself to not be biased.
Think of it that way: if u see a choice that people chose 1 choice over another heavily then you know you didn't get the split that is the formula of telltale's choices...95% choose to kill Conrad and save clem...they didn't know how to make that choice more split-tabel
Exactly! I play as myself- my real life personality and self. Thats what the game is for. For you to make your own descions (descions is a questionable word but whatever)
Playing as the character is not whats intended by the devs. they just thought people werent above killing for clem.
They thought wrong.
I killed Conrad and i dont regret it-although i really did like him-he was a family-tight man and i felt his death was too premature but still Clem above all.
And dont say clem "left"- ay bossman, we all know shes coming back smh.
Telltale have fell in to the trap of something called "Charachter Bias" or a "Mcguffin"- In which i didnt think they'd fall for it.
Charahcter bias happens when the player/audience knows something/someone before the ingame character, in this case, CLEMENTINE.
Suprised at how TTG failed to avoid it tbh
How can I help it if she has been here since 2012?
I can't just turn it of, it's like watching a book adaptation but trying to look critical at it without looking at it as a fan for me
Not a popular decision, but I also betrayed Clem. I was super conflicted though.
The logical thing to do is not siding with the maniac who's pointing a gun at two children, sorry.
Oh, also, I did manage to find that thread we were talking about earlier bro
https://telltale.com/community/discussion/112279/how-have-the-stats-changed-since-release
How do you know about Conrad´s death?
While it's true that Conrad wasn't a likeable character to begin with, don't fool yourself. Most people would still have sided with Clementine if Conrad was 100% in the right and had dozens of well-funded arguments and was generally the nicest dude ever simply because she's Clementine. See the Eli choice: Clem was clearly in the wrong, yet everyone defended her (and we didn't even get an option to really throw her under the bus in the first place).
If I didn't know Clementine I would have still shot Conrad, holding my nephew hostage to prove a point and acting like a lunatic at the brink of exploding wasn't sitting right for me. I even would've accepted the plan save for Conrad's behavior. But even if some players chose to side with Clem because they know her isn't dramatic, they payed good money to play it the way they enjoy it most. There's no way to "play right" a Telltale game, and I think it's what makes this formula enjoyable otherwise we'd be stuck with a completely linear story (inb4 someone tells me that New Frontier is already linear to which I agree to a certain extent, but we'll have to wait the end of the season to measure it on the choices-matter-o-meter).
I agree that we are way too biased but, most of Clem's actions are justified. That dude attacked Javi first and sold fake bullets. Karma came back to him and killed him. Conrad? Not a fan of him. Emotional wreck and took a hostage.
I first wanted to leave that group and get back with my family, but Clem made good points with buying them time and, if we kill them now, they won't be bothering us.
I know we are biased and we don't know Clem, but do we have to be an asshole to Clem ? If there is a another way without hurting her, then might as well go that way. I agree though and I also saw this problem. We are biased, but Clem made good points
I agree. Do Javi only or Clem only. It is completely ruined. Not only that biased thing. It feels like S1 and S2 were for nothing, because it's not Clem's story anymore. Her main purpose in this story is probably the money magnet.
I also like Javi
I agree with what your saying, though I didn't shoot Conrad just for Clementine. He grabbed Gabe and held him as a hostage just for his own personal vendetta. That was the line for me. The one point earlier for me was when you had to choose to back Clem up when she killed that one arms dealer guy. There was no real reason why I should be held liable for her actions and no history for a reason for me to back her up. I did of course cause I know Clem, but Javi wouldn't have known her or had any reason. I mean I still probably would have lied anyways since her actions were justified in my opinion, and he did try and kill me and Clem.
That's because Eli was supposed to be an acceptable target.
The second you become determinant the whole world goes dark
Everyone is a blanket statement. I didn't defend her because Telltale has fucked up writing her as a character. Telltale knows how the fanbase feels about Clementine so putting her up against characters who are poorly written, one dimensional and unlikable is a stupid writing decision. Seriously Conrad's reasoning was so generically bland and poor I'm honestly struggling to think anyone seriously sided with him.
If we decide to kill him, Clementine just walks out on us. It doesn't seem logical to save her from being exposed when she just runs off.