I wouldn't say that I hate A New Frontier, but I can say that I don't really care for it so far.
The story is average at best and is still reliant on the same formula the past titles has at worst. It doesn't try a new story approach to make ANF have it's own unique identity, and it instead comes across as uninspired and boring.
The linear narrative and how the illusion of choice is becoming more apparent means that some of the audience is becoming more aware of which direction the story will go to. For example, Javier being kicked out of Richmond in the beginning will happen no matter what regardless of how he protest his innocence to the leaders of The New Frontier, because the story demands that he leaves for the plot to go forward no matter how contrived.
We're introduced to a brand new cast of characters we're meant to care about, which is compromised by the fact that there's little time to develop them due to the story's pacing being rushed forward without letting certain characters shine in the spotlight.
The early teasers had lead the audience to believe that Clementine would be the main focus of the story, but in reality her role is rather minimal at best in favor for Javier and his family, newer characters that haven't exactly won over the audience due to how uninteresting they seem so far. Some would also argue that if Clementine was removed, barely anything would need to be changed in the story.
There's no chance to just have the plot pause for some time for the audience to take their time into getting to know the community or new cast more, and give us a reason to be invested in their character and actually care when bad things inevitably happen.
The episode lengths are notoriously short, even shorter than past titles, and yet the price tag remains the same. Episode 1 and 2 of ANF was stated to be 'too long' to fit into one episode, and yet both episode's length was shorter than the very first episode of Season 1.
The payoff of what ending was chosen in Season 2 had disappointed many due to how they were presented as mere afterthoughts in the form of flashbacks that tells the deaths of Kenny/Jane/Edith, and how Clementine will always begin in the same role she has in ANF regardless of who she was with in different locations.
The removal of the rewind feature, which forces players to start episodes over from scratch just to find out what happens if different choices are made.
The lack of customer communication and feedback addressing from Telltale's side did little to impress those who were hoping to see ANF develop into a stronger title, instead of trying to being seen as cashing onto the successes of TWD Season 1 and 2.
While I agree that the most recent episode of ANF had fixed a couple of problems Season 3 has as a whole, it needs to do far more work to match the quality of the likes of TWD: Season 1, The Wolf Among Us, and Tales of the Borderlands. So far, ANF is being seen as a mediocre and unimpressive title, and for good reasons.
Yeah I agree but these problems are fixable and arent that bad to instantly call the game bad I think they are giving in a way actually too … moremuch backstory to javis family but personally I think they are trying to attach you to Kate way too Much but one thing I do agree is more clementine and to be honest I don't even think she has to be a playable character but just allow her to a lot more active but thicker than water seems to prioritise her more
By all means I don't think it's as good as season one but to be honest I respect the improvement from the first two episodes from the the third and by all means I think it was impressive how they came up with a story from that position that in my opinion was quite good and my point in this discussion is I understand there are problems but I think there is possibility of some restoration of the the series to the standard telltale are used to but I'm just trying to highlight how it is not as bad as people are saying I mean to call it a failure is pretty harsh and if I'm being completely honest if there was no clementine I probably wouldn't like it anywhere as much
I wouldn't say that I hate A New Frontier, but I can say that I don't really care for it so far.
* The story is average at best and is … morestill reliant on the same formula the past titles has at worst. It doesn't try a new story approach to make ANF have it's own unique identity, and it instead comes across as uninspired and boring.
* The linear narrative and how the illusion of choice is becoming more apparent means that some of the audience is becoming more aware of which direction the story will go to. For example, Javier being kicked out of Richmond in the beginning will happen no matter what regardless of how he protest his innocence to the leaders of The New Frontier, because the story demands that he leaves for the plot to go forward no matter how contrived.
* We're introduced to a brand new cast of characters we're meant to care about, which is compromised by the fact that there's little time to develop them due to the story's pac… [view original content]
I don't know if it's just because I've been isolated away from all the hype for Season 3, where as I was lurking around these forums for season 2, but I generally enjoy all the games they release. I of course have my favorites but I always approach each game as if it should stand on it's own merits and I won't over analyse. So what characters meant to me before I don't let effect my enjoyment of a new season. I've personally enjoyed both season 2 and the first episode of Season 3 immensely.
I'm by no means saying my way is the best way. But by not being around for the backlash that A New Frontier has gotten until now, I did enjoy the first episode of A New Frontier.
Here are my reasons:
* Episode length
* No character development
* Clementine being part of Javier's story
* Season 2 Endings don't … moremean jack shit
* Lies we were told (Episode 1 was too big so it had to be split in two, 42 versions of Clementine are in ANF, biggest season so far, Clementine is a co-playable character)
* Comic book references (Jesus is the only comic character we met and they made me lose my interes on him)
* Lack of hubs and exploring areas
* Full of plot holes (If you spare him, Rufus, the truck driver, somehow knows that Clementine was the one who stopped the truck; Tripp is nice to a stranger he just met and doesn't blame him for the fall of Prescott; Max says the ambulance gas belongs to him when that ambulance is completely broken and useless)
* Meaningless choices (No matter who you go with at the junkyard, it will always be daytime; no matter how you try to prevent trouble, Francine dies and Prescott falls… [view original content]
Well when telltale consistently lies and dismisses the reception and feedback of their fan base on the telltale forum....people aren't exactly going to be happy about that.
No character development
Eh...define character development.
If you spare him, Rufus, the truck driver, somehow knows that Clem… moreentine was the one who stopped the truck
He could've seen her sneak up behind Javier or even been hiding in the bushes for a bit once Javier took his eyes off him.
Max says the ambulance gas belongs to him when that ambulance is completely broken and useless
Well, it is next to their trailer in the junkyard, so technically it is his property.
Have you played the game? It is genuinely terrible. Now, I'm only judging by the first two episodes and have yet to play the third episode, so I won't be mentioning whether things have improved or not (though I doubt it), and will mostly just talk about my main issue with the game- the characters. That's not to say there isn't more problems because there is, with the time length, the story, the choices, the pacing, etc, but this post will probably end up being too long if I bang on any more.
First thing first, Clementine's flashbacks and the treatment of Kenny/Jane. I'm not a Clementine fan. Anyone that's ever read one of my posts knows that. I don't mind her, per say, but she was far from being the draw for me this season. The fact Clementine is a background character doesn't effect me, as I don't care that much for her. But, despite that, I still know for majority of the fan base she's their favourite character and because of that she does deserve to play a large role in the game, as Telltale claimed she would, and to be actually playable. Instead though, Telltale lied and presented their fans with barely 5-minute thrown together flashbacks with shitty writing. Take for example, Jane's flashback- it's rushed, the dialogue's half-arsed, it has no respect for the actual character (the horrible model and the out of character suicide), and Clementine isn't even really playable outside of just picking some dialogue choices. Then there's Kenny's flashback which isn't much better. It, too, is rushed, poorly-written, and disrespectful to the fans who chose to stick with him at the end of season 2. Many players expected Telltale to deliver on their promises of a bigger game and wanted to believe that they'd at least give such loved characters a decent farewell. They chose not to and that, to an extent, really sums up much of Telltale's recent writing in characters. They simply chose not to make as much effort. The flashbacks truly prove that.
Now, onto the next point, which is Clementine's character, overall. Telltale claimed that the choices of season 2 would determine what type of person Clementine would be in this season. That was a lie. Because no matter what way you chose to play her in the second series or what you picked in the choice generator, she's the exact same. If you went with Kenny, it doesn't matter, because she's still going to be this snarky, Jane-esque, lone, "badass", survivor even though she has no reason to be that way. That's not excusable. You don't market something to the fans when it just isn't true. And in the long run, it's damaged Clementine's character, as now, instead of having her being how you thought she'd turned out, she's irresponsible and reckless, and doesn't seem to have much regard for human life, as seen with the scene where she just kills another person and marks it off as nothing. For many people, that isn't Clementine, but Telltale have shown they don't care and only want to use her as a means to make money from the old fans. She doesn't even serve much purpose in the plot- she's just sorta there, in the background, and might have an odd scene here or there where she'll remind us just how "badass" she is now. If they wanted to focus on new characters, that's fine, but the fact they marketed it as though Clem and Javier had a 50/50 role in the story, is bound to cause disappointment and anger amongst much of the community. And then to not even make an effort with at least making sure she is the way players chose, is a complete slap in the face.
Then you got Javier- the protagonist, the main man, the playable character. You'd think he'd be interesting? He mustn't of been considering Telltale took the risk of angering much of the fan base by replacing Clementine with him? They clearly had something really good to explore with this guy, right? Nope. He's as about as interesting as drying paint. Javier's bland. There's no real character traits or a personality, or anything interesting to see with him. Sure, he's a pretty boy who wants to protect his family, and...? Nothing. The guy's a blank slate. And when put into comparison to Lee of season 1, who had an internal motivation and an actual character arc, Javier looks even worse. Don't get me wrong, though, I don't hate Javier. He's alright. There's some lines he has that are somewhat funny. But he's just too bland to really leave much of an impact on you. If Javier dies by the end of this season, I won't care. I won't be upset like I was when Lee died. And I'm shocked anyone actually would be, because there's so little to care for with him. A cliched backstory of him not being there when his dad died, even though his dad favoured him, causing jealously issues with his brother, David, and of course, he has a thing for his brother's wife, who chose the wrong brother, and so him and his brother are probably doomed to be rivals. Yeah, that took a lot of thinking on Telltale's part...Real original. I'm actually just going to quote myself the last time I spoke about Javier to end this paragraph: "The story's meant to act as a means to develop the characters. There has to be a purpose for Javier's presence in the plot. We saw it with Lee. The first season was a means for Lee to find redemption. Javier, on the other hand, isn't like that. He's not engaging. He's not developing. He's only there to serve the plot without emotional attachment, to just be a perfect hero and save the day."
So the protagonist's lacking, maybe Telltale made up for it with the supporting cast? That, too, though, is a no. Gabe is a whinny teenager who wants to prove himself a man, even though all he's done since his introduction is whine. He doesn't show very many likeable traits and we barely get to know him before we're just expected to care for him and his problems simply because he's the nephew of our playable character. It's the same for Kate and Mariana. We don't even know them before the plot gets moving, and are just expected to have concern because it's what Javier would be feeling. That isn't how characters in a game should be used. You have to develop them, so we can get to know them, to care for them, so that when the stakes do prove to be dangerous, we will actually give a shit what happens. Season 1 did this. They had the right balance of story and character development. When something went to shit, you wanted the likes of Kenny or Carley to get through it. With this season, whether someone, like let's say Mariana dies, you don't care all that much because we barely even knew them. Then you have Tripp, who's lacking in so much character that he doesn't even care that his community was just destroyed and even though since he met Javier, there's been nothing but trouble, he proclaims Javier to be "the boss". Why? No idea. He only met Javier a few hours and we're meant to buy them as close buddies already...He's just another character I don't care about because there's no personality, backstory or anything else that develops characters within him. Eleanor is just a background character, really. I genuinely can't say anything about her. All of these characters could die, and hardly any of the players would be emotionally effected. Hell, I actually doubt anyone would.
To summarise, the characters are shit and it's near impossible to find investment in them because the reality is, Telltale put little to no effort in constructing them.
Well it comes down to perception of the product. You see what others strongly dislike or hate about the series as trivial or easily dismissed. That isn't bad at all, but I think what others hate/dislike about ANF you yourself don't really view as warrant for the hate and negative reception.
By all means of course everyone will have there own perception of something but I think most people on the forum most likely don't like the game which is possibly the reason for coming on the forum to try and discuss area for improvement so it creates a negative atmosphere to which people automatically start disliking without themselves actually having justification
Well it comes down to perception of the product. You see what others strongly dislike or hate about the series as trivial or easily dismisse… mored. That isn't bad at all, but I think what others hate/dislike about ANF you yourself don't really view as warrant for the hate and negative reception.
I just wanted a CONTINUATION of CLEMENTINE'S story, not this random baseball fuck I give no damn about.
Shitty and rushed 5 min "playable" Clem flashbacks.
Kenny, Jane and Edith had the worst fucking character models to date.
They all die in a stupid way.
Clementine choices are just there for the sake of having a choice, they do nothing. Example, the medicine choice (nothing so far) or the "Join Ava" choice (which I don't think changed anything yet)
Clementine is not a big part of the story so why is she in every advertisement? Remove her and whoops - nothing changes. She's not a main character anymore.
All the LIES we have gotten prerelease is fucking... AWFUL. For example the "ep1 was so big it had to be split" lie, or the "no character will take the backseat" lie, or the "biggest season yet" lie, there are so many lies. So many.
Short 1 hour episodes.
Little character development because ACTION IS SO IMPORTANT IN A QTE CUTSCENE STORY GAME.
You don't just add a new protagonist for no fucking reason.
Lack of hubs (and gameplay).
There are more issues... a lot more issues but I think these are the main issues.
Okay your main point of this calling it terrible is that lack of character development which I do understand as it's the priority of the walking dead series to make emotional hard decisions however its not even really the game it's self that is the reason think about I personally like the story so I don't really mind but the fact of the matter is that in season one each episode was so much longer than in season 3 there fore instantly they would have more time to develop the characters in the game however in this season either telltale are too lazy to make it longer or perhaps they are trying to make season 3 more based around story rather than character relationships and also as you said you haven't played it yet I can assure you even if you don't like it you should notice even the slightest of improvement in episode 3 but overall I do feel as the game time does lead to many other factors which people feel the game is lacking but I do think it's a very easy problem to fix
Have you played the game? It is genuinely terrible. Now, I'm only judging by the first two episodes and have yet to play the third episode, … moreso I won't be mentioning whether things have improved or not (though I doubt it), and will mostly just talk about my main issue with the game- the characters. That's not to say there isn't more problems because there is, with the time length, the story, the choices, the pacing, etc, but this post will probably end up being too long if I bang on any more.
First thing first, Clementine's flashbacks and the treatment of Kenny/Jane. I'm not a Clementine fan. Anyone that's ever read one of my posts knows that. I don't mind her, per say, but she was far from being the draw for me this season. The fact Clementine is a background character doesn't effect me, as I don't care that much for her. But, despite that, I still know for majority of the fan base she's their favourite character and because of that she do… [view original content]
You can't see any valid criticism? Are you suffering from any forms of blindness...?
The flashbacks are terrible, the flashbacks are only five minutes, Edith, Jane and Kenny die. You never learn what or who the people are in Wellington, you never get to see them, Jane looks like she just had plastic surgery, Kenny looks like someone rubbed toliet paper on his beard. Clementine is only playable in the flashbacks and only for FIVE minutes, both episode 1 and episode 2 are only SIXTY MINUTES LONG. Giving AJ the medicine or not doesn't have any affect WHATSOEVER, misleading dialogue options, "THIS WILL BE THE BIGGEST SEASON YET", 42 STARTING POINTS MY ASS, very sub-par writing... ect
To be honest I can't see any valid criticism of the season I feel as though everyone is just comparing it to the first season which is harsh due to it being so good
Because the choices that we've made in Season 2 that we were all anxiously awaiting a good continuation for were all tossed aside because Telltale was lazy. They's why ANF gets so much hate.
You know what I've been wondering about this? Whether it might've been a better idea to have left Clementine out of this season altogether, and just try to leave the season 2 endings as ambiguous. Because for all intents and purposes, I think people here on the forum have actually given their own ending ideas that feel more sentimental, and give a much needed "feels" boost that we'd been used to before.
I'd much rather come up with my own scenario than have to watch Kenny fly out a window, or watch Jane hanging from the ceiling in a half-assed 5 minute flashback
Because the choices that we've made in Season 2 that we were all anxiously awaiting a good continuation for were all tossed aside because Telltale was lazy. They's why ANF gets so much hate.
I think apparently people want clementine to die to continue the story but she's the only reason many people still play personally if she dies I'd stop playing
You know what I've been wondering about this? Whether it might've been a better idea to have left Clementine out of this season altogether, … moreand just try to leave the season 2 endings as ambiguous. Because for all intents and purposes, I think people here on the forum have actually given their own ending ideas that feel more sentimental, and give a much needed "feels" boost that we'd been used to before.
I'd much rather come up with my own scenario than have to watch Kenny fly out a window, or watch Jane hanging from the ceiling in a half-assed 5 minute flashback
I think apparently people want clementine to die to continue the story but she's the only reason many people still play personally if she dies I'd stop playing
You know what I've been wondering about this? Whether it might've been a better idea to have left Clementine out of this season altogether, … moreand just try to leave the season 2 endings as ambiguous. Because for all intents and purposes, I think people here on the forum have actually given their own ending ideas that feel more sentimental, and give a much needed "feels" boost that we'd been used to before.
I'd much rather come up with my own scenario than have to watch Kenny fly out a window, or watch Jane hanging from the ceiling in a half-assed 5 minute flashback
Because he didn't need it yet? Honestly, it seems more like the truck was there for them to get gas from or drive when needed, so they just left it in there out of laziness.
But does Rufus actually know Clementine? We didn't see him anywhere in Episode 3 flashback.
He could've described her to Max.
David's development is the only good one cause I finally got to care about him when Episode 3 was released.
That's not defining character development, dude/babe. It seems more like "I like this guy," therefore he has development, which I doubt is what you mean.
Well, it is next to their trailer in the junkyard, so technically it is his property.
Then why didn't he use it for his transports?
… more
He could've seen her sneak up behind Javier or even been hiding in the bushes for a bit once Javier took his eyes off him.
But does Rufus actually know Clementine? We didn't see him anywhere in Episode 3 flashback.
Eh...define character development.
David's development is the only good one cause I finally got to care about him when Episode 3 was released.
It seems more like "I like this guy," therefore he has development, which I doubt is what you mean.
I don't actually "like" him, I just liked his character development in Episode 3, I thought he was going to be the villain according to the trailers, he was on Javier's side and he knew that without him, he wouldn't be able to save Kate and Gabe from TNF.
Then why didn't he use it for his transports?
Because he didn't need it yet? Honestly, it seems more like the truck was there for th… moreem to get gas from or drive when needed, so they just left it in there out of laziness.
But does Rufus actually know Clementine? We didn't see him anywhere in Episode 3 flashback.
He could've described her to Max.
David's development is the only good one cause I finally got to care about him when Episode 3 was released.
That's not defining character development, dude/babe. It seems more like "I like this guy," therefore he has development, which I doubt is what you mean.
I'm sorry but I agree a new frontier has flaws such as the lack of clementine However I am very confused why everyone hates a new frontier so much just because of Kennys death it's a good game and doesn't deserve all the criticism it gets
I think this is perhaps an oversimplification of things. With the addition of Episode 3, ANF has improved over it's previous standings with me personally, however myself and many fans have had a variety of criticism unrelated to Kenny/Jane and false advertisement.
Episode Length This is one of the key reasons that this season failed out the gate. I like the introduction of a new cast, but we're not given enough time with them to develop attachments. It started well enough, but then I feel like they made a big mistake.
Time Skipping/Flashbacks People are attached to Clem because we've taken a journey together. We escaped from Macon, survived Savannah, and pressed on to Wellington. Using the story elements of time skips, we've been ditched. Javi, Kate, and the kids all had a journey for four years after we've met them without us. It leaves the impression that they've had it easy which minimizes the effect an apocalyptic story would normally have on a person. ( We pop back in on them four years later, they have a stocked vehicle, and a really relaxed attitude. They display zero caution when exploring a new area like a junk yard with multiple areas life threatening danger could be hiding with children. )
Unfinished Business This attaches nicely onto the flashback portion. We're not connected because the story's not written in a clean order. People complain about the lack of Clem because of how much unfinished business we've left with that can't really be satisfied in five minute sections. Half of people probably won't even recall that Javi and David have already lost a brother because he was scratched and then we time skipped. He's simply not there anymore. Easy enough conclusion to reach, but no emotion behind it.
This season improved, and can continue to improve. Most of the feedback provided by those posting here are in hopes that they continue to improve, and are highlighting the areas they feel the most let down by. I feel as though the formula format was a poor choice to display the story they wanted to tell, even though I understand they did it to make the stars align and bring in Clem as quickly as possible into the story. Negative feedback can be both presented and taken as one of two things -- poison or potential, and even when given poison there's a choice to hurt yourself with it or use it to get rid of what's plaguing you.
It seems more like "I like this guy," therefore he has development, which I doubt is what you mean.
I don't actually "like" him, I j… moreust liked his character development in Episode 3, I thought he was going to be the villain according to the trailers, he was on Javier's side and he knew that without him, he wouldn't be able to save Kate and Gabe from TNF.
And I'm not a babe, thank you so much.
Yeah I said all your points previously and my initial point wasn't meant to correct it was meant to be an over simplification so people can elaborate and as I said I agree with the problems but I personally am not as affected as others because I like the story but the reason of all the factors you have listed are present is due to the length of the episodes this doesn't give us time for character development to include more clementine but people (my self included ) need more clementine but in my opinion the flashbacks aren't pointless as it highlights the limitations of being clem to be honest I think if she was more active in the episodes that would solve the problem however yet again they need longer episodes to provide opportunities to do this
I'm sorry but I agree a new frontier has flaws such as the lack of clementine However I am very confused why everyone hates a new frontier s… moreo much just because of Kennys death it's a good game and doesn't deserve all the criticism it gets
I think this is perhaps an oversimplification of things. With the addition of Episode 3, ANF has improved over it's previous standings with me personally, however myself and many fans have had a variety of criticism unrelated to Kenny/Jane and false advertisement.
* Episode Length This is one of the key reasons that this season failed out the gate. I like the introduction of a new cast, but we're not given enough time with them to develop attachments. It started well enough, but then I feel like they made a big mistake.
* Time Skipping/Flashbacks People are attached to Clem because we've taken a journey together. We escaped from Macon, survived Savannah, and pressed on to Wellington. Using the … [view original content]
Reviewers write for clicks, you get more clicks when your positive, dont trust reviews. Same with Youtubers.
But your right the problems … morewith episodes 1&2 were fixable, they had three months to fix them, they didn't. Because they don't think they did anything wrong.
As for game length, were not ever going to see eye to eye on that. These games should be twice as long.
The fans don't like it because we pay the same amount of money for half the content with more and more gameplay being removed every episode, might as well just watch it on youtube now.
We didn't see all of Clem's experiences in her flashbacks.
She spent a while with the New Frontier. So are we able to see every seconds and minutes of many weeks/months she lived with them? Of course not!
Since she was a member of the new frontier, of course Rufus knew her.
And there is plenties of character development in ANF.
This is why we got to see flasbacks from the Garcia family.
There is much more development of the Garcia's than any character in Season 2, wether you like them or not.
I hate Kate, but I can't tell she is not developed just because I don't like her. She is a very well written character.
Well, it is next to their trailer in the junkyard, so technically it is his property.
Then why didn't he use it for his transports?
… more
He could've seen her sneak up behind Javier or even been hiding in the bushes for a bit once Javier took his eyes off him.
But does Rufus actually know Clementine? We didn't see him anywhere in Episode 3 flashback.
Eh...define character development.
David's development is the only good one cause I finally got to care about him when Episode 3 was released.
And I barely care about Gabe and Kate. I liked Mariana the most, her death was bullshit. She was killed to just give us reasons to hate The New Frontier.
We didn't see all of Clem's experiences in her flashbacks.
She spent a while with the New Frontier. So are we able to see every seconds and… more minutes of many weeks/months she lived with them? Of course not!
Since she was a member of the new frontier, of course Rufus knew her.
And there is plenties of character development in ANF.
This is why we got to see flasbacks from the Garcia family.
There is much more development of the Garcia's than any character in Season 2, wether you like them or not.
I hate Kate, but I can't tell she is not developed just because I don't like her. She is a very well written character.
You are right.
We could have a lovely story with Mariana around and being Clem's friend like Sara was before.
Mariana seemed to be a little brave kid with a good spirit.
And I barely care about Gabe and Kate. I liked Mariana the most, her death was bullshit. She was killed to just give us reasons to hate The New Frontier.
You are right.
We could have a lovely story with Mariana around and being Clem's friend like Sara was before.
Mariana seemed to be a little brave kid with a good spirit.
Maybe because TT blatantly mislead people on purpose for profit? Yeah it might be that.
I used to eagerly anticipate these episode releases. Now I don't really care because I know it will be more disappointing nonsense. I'm just hoping they cut their losses and back out of the obvious Clementine death I feel like is coming....
They don't even care how obvious this is too. It boggles the mind.
Let's release twice as much content but make it all roughly 1/3rd or more shorter each time and maximize profits. Who cares about the fans who LIKED our original work.
The fans don't like it because we pay the same amount of money for half the content with more and more gameplay being removed every episode, might as well just watch it on youtube now.
I totally agree. I think people only dislike it because the other 2 seasons were better and you got more emotionally involved with the story, but that doesn't mean anf is a bad game, just inferior to the last 2
Comments
I mean i just don't understand the over reaction to a lot of things
Evidently a lot of people really hate telltale
I wouldn't say that I hate A New Frontier, but I can say that I don't really care for it so far.
While I agree that the most recent episode of ANF had fixed a couple of problems Season 3 has as a whole, it needs to do far more work to match the quality of the likes of TWD: Season 1, The Wolf Among Us, and Tales of the Borderlands. So far, ANF is being seen as a mediocre and unimpressive title, and for good reasons.
Well, if they're going to do something, they've got 2 episodes left to pull it off - not a lot of time, realistically
Hopefully the final stretch will be less rocky than its start.
By all means I don't think it's as good as season one but to be honest I respect the improvement from the first two episodes from the the third and by all means I think it was impressive how they came up with a story from that position that in my opinion was quite good and my point in this discussion is I understand there are problems but I think there is possibility of some restoration of the the series to the standard telltale are used to but I'm just trying to highlight how it is not as bad as people are saying I mean to call it a failure is pretty harsh and if I'm being completely honest if there was no clementine I probably wouldn't like it anywhere as much
I don't know if it's just because I've been isolated away from all the hype for Season 3, where as I was lurking around these forums for season 2, but I generally enjoy all the games they release. I of course have my favorites but I always approach each game as if it should stand on it's own merits and I won't over analyse. So what characters meant to me before I don't let effect my enjoyment of a new season. I've personally enjoyed both season 2 and the first episode of Season 3 immensely.
I'm by no means saying my way is the best way. But by not being around for the backlash that A New Frontier has gotten until now, I did enjoy the first episode of A New Frontier.
Eh...define character development.
He could've seen her sneak up behind Javier or even been hiding in the bushes for a bit once Javier took his eyes off him.
Well, it is next to their trailer in the junkyard, so technically it is his property.
Well when telltale consistently lies and dismisses the reception and feedback of their fan base on the telltale forum....people aren't exactly going to be happy about that.
Then why didn't he use it for his transports?
But does Rufus actually know Clementine? We didn't see him anywhere in Episode 3 flashback.
David's development is the only good one cause I finally got to care about him when Episode 3 was released.
Have you played the game? It is genuinely terrible. Now, I'm only judging by the first two episodes and have yet to play the third episode, so I won't be mentioning whether things have improved or not (though I doubt it), and will mostly just talk about my main issue with the game- the characters. That's not to say there isn't more problems because there is, with the time length, the story, the choices, the pacing, etc, but this post will probably end up being too long if I bang on any more.
First thing first, Clementine's flashbacks and the treatment of Kenny/Jane. I'm not a Clementine fan. Anyone that's ever read one of my posts knows that. I don't mind her, per say, but she was far from being the draw for me this season. The fact Clementine is a background character doesn't effect me, as I don't care that much for her. But, despite that, I still know for majority of the fan base she's their favourite character and because of that she does deserve to play a large role in the game, as Telltale claimed she would, and to be actually playable. Instead though, Telltale lied and presented their fans with barely 5-minute thrown together flashbacks with shitty writing. Take for example, Jane's flashback- it's rushed, the dialogue's half-arsed, it has no respect for the actual character (the horrible model and the out of character suicide), and Clementine isn't even really playable outside of just picking some dialogue choices. Then there's Kenny's flashback which isn't much better. It, too, is rushed, poorly-written, and disrespectful to the fans who chose to stick with him at the end of season 2. Many players expected Telltale to deliver on their promises of a bigger game and wanted to believe that they'd at least give such loved characters a decent farewell. They chose not to and that, to an extent, really sums up much of Telltale's recent writing in characters. They simply chose not to make as much effort. The flashbacks truly prove that.
Now, onto the next point, which is Clementine's character, overall. Telltale claimed that the choices of season 2 would determine what type of person Clementine would be in this season. That was a lie. Because no matter what way you chose to play her in the second series or what you picked in the choice generator, she's the exact same. If you went with Kenny, it doesn't matter, because she's still going to be this snarky, Jane-esque, lone, "badass", survivor even though she has no reason to be that way. That's not excusable. You don't market something to the fans when it just isn't true. And in the long run, it's damaged Clementine's character, as now, instead of having her being how you thought she'd turned out, she's irresponsible and reckless, and doesn't seem to have much regard for human life, as seen with the scene where she just kills another person and marks it off as nothing. For many people, that isn't Clementine, but Telltale have shown they don't care and only want to use her as a means to make money from the old fans. She doesn't even serve much purpose in the plot- she's just sorta there, in the background, and might have an odd scene here or there where she'll remind us just how "badass" she is now. If they wanted to focus on new characters, that's fine, but the fact they marketed it as though Clem and Javier had a 50/50 role in the story, is bound to cause disappointment and anger amongst much of the community. And then to not even make an effort with at least making sure she is the way players chose, is a complete slap in the face.
Then you got Javier- the protagonist, the main man, the playable character. You'd think he'd be interesting? He mustn't of been considering Telltale took the risk of angering much of the fan base by replacing Clementine with him? They clearly had something really good to explore with this guy, right? Nope. He's as about as interesting as drying paint. Javier's bland. There's no real character traits or a personality, or anything interesting to see with him. Sure, he's a pretty boy who wants to protect his family, and...? Nothing. The guy's a blank slate. And when put into comparison to Lee of season 1, who had an internal motivation and an actual character arc, Javier looks even worse. Don't get me wrong, though, I don't hate Javier. He's alright. There's some lines he has that are somewhat funny. But he's just too bland to really leave much of an impact on you. If Javier dies by the end of this season, I won't care. I won't be upset like I was when Lee died. And I'm shocked anyone actually would be, because there's so little to care for with him. A cliched backstory of him not being there when his dad died, even though his dad favoured him, causing jealously issues with his brother, David, and of course, he has a thing for his brother's wife, who chose the wrong brother, and so him and his brother are probably doomed to be rivals. Yeah, that took a lot of thinking on Telltale's part...Real original. I'm actually just going to quote myself the last time I spoke about Javier to end this paragraph: "The story's meant to act as a means to develop the characters. There has to be a purpose for Javier's presence in the plot. We saw it with Lee. The first season was a means for Lee to find redemption. Javier, on the other hand, isn't like that. He's not engaging. He's not developing. He's only there to serve the plot without emotional attachment, to just be a perfect hero and save the day."
So the protagonist's lacking, maybe Telltale made up for it with the supporting cast? That, too, though, is a no. Gabe is a whinny teenager who wants to prove himself a man, even though all he's done since his introduction is whine. He doesn't show very many likeable traits and we barely get to know him before we're just expected to care for him and his problems simply because he's the nephew of our playable character. It's the same for Kate and Mariana. We don't even know them before the plot gets moving, and are just expected to have concern because it's what Javier would be feeling. That isn't how characters in a game should be used. You have to develop them, so we can get to know them, to care for them, so that when the stakes do prove to be dangerous, we will actually give a shit what happens. Season 1 did this. They had the right balance of story and character development. When something went to shit, you wanted the likes of Kenny or Carley to get through it. With this season, whether someone, like let's say Mariana dies, you don't care all that much because we barely even knew them. Then you have Tripp, who's lacking in so much character that he doesn't even care that his community was just destroyed and even though since he met Javier, there's been nothing but trouble, he proclaims Javier to be "the boss". Why? No idea. He only met Javier a few hours and we're meant to buy them as close buddies already...He's just another character I don't care about because there's no personality, backstory or anything else that develops characters within him. Eleanor is just a background character, really. I genuinely can't say anything about her. All of these characters could die, and hardly any of the players would be emotionally effected. Hell, I actually doubt anyone would.
To summarise, the characters are shit and it's near impossible to find investment in them because the reality is, Telltale put little to no effort in constructing them.
Well it comes down to perception of the product. You see what others strongly dislike or hate about the series as trivial or easily dismissed. That isn't bad at all, but I think what others hate/dislike about ANF you yourself don't really view as warrant for the hate and negative reception.
By all means of course everyone will have there own perception of something but I think most people on the forum most likely don't like the game which is possibly the reason for coming on the forum to try and discuss area for improvement so it creates a negative atmosphere to which people automatically start disliking without themselves actually having justification
Okay your main point of this calling it terrible is that lack of character development which I do understand as it's the priority of the walking dead series to make emotional hard decisions however its not even really the game it's self that is the reason think about I personally like the story so I don't really mind but the fact of the matter is that in season one each episode was so much longer than in season 3 there fore instantly they would have more time to develop the characters in the game however in this season either telltale are too lazy to make it longer or perhaps they are trying to make season 3 more based around story rather than character relationships and also as you said you haven't played it yet I can assure you even if you don't like it you should notice even the slightest of improvement in episode 3 but overall I do feel as the game time does lead to many other factors which people feel the game is lacking but I do think it's a very easy problem to fix
You can't see any valid criticism? Are you suffering from any forms of blindness...?
The flashbacks are terrible, the flashbacks are only five minutes, Edith, Jane and Kenny die. You never learn what or who the people are in Wellington, you never get to see them, Jane looks like she just had plastic surgery, Kenny looks like someone rubbed toliet paper on his beard. Clementine is only playable in the flashbacks and only for FIVE minutes, both episode 1 and episode 2 are only SIXTY MINUTES LONG. Giving AJ the medicine or not doesn't have any affect WHATSOEVER, misleading dialogue options, "THIS WILL BE THE BIGGEST SEASON YET", 42 STARTING POINTS MY ASS, very sub-par writing... ect
Because the choices that we've made in Season 2 that we were all anxiously awaiting a good continuation for were all tossed aside because Telltale was lazy. They's why ANF gets so much hate.
You know what I've been wondering about this? Whether it might've been a better idea to have left Clementine out of this season altogether, and just try to leave the season 2 endings as ambiguous. Because for all intents and purposes, I think people here on the forum have actually given their own ending ideas that feel more sentimental, and give a much needed "feels" boost that we'd been used to before.
I'd much rather come up with my own scenario than have to watch Kenny fly out a window, or watch Jane hanging from the ceiling in a half-assed 5 minute flashback
I think apparently people want clementine to die to continue the story but she's the only reason many people still play personally if she dies I'd stop playing
I think apparently people want clementine to die to continue the story but she's the only reason many people still play personally if she dies I'd stop playing
Because people have opinions.
Because he didn't need it yet? Honestly, it seems more like the truck was there for them to get gas from or drive when needed, so they just left it in there out of laziness.
He could've described her to Max.
That's not defining character development, dude/babe. It seems more like "I like this guy," therefore he has development, which I doubt is what you mean.
I don't actually "like" him, I just liked his character development in Episode 3, I thought he was going to be the villain according to the trailers, he was on Javier's side and he knew that without him, he wouldn't be able to save Kate and Gabe from TNF.
And I'm not a babe, thank you so much.
Really I didn't know that
No shit, Batman.
I think this is perhaps an oversimplification of things. With the addition of Episode 3, ANF has improved over it's previous standings with me personally, however myself and many fans have had a variety of criticism unrelated to Kenny/Jane and false advertisement.
This season improved, and can continue to improve. Most of the feedback provided by those posting here are in hopes that they continue to improve, and are highlighting the areas they feel the most let down by. I feel as though the formula format was a poor choice to display the story they wanted to tell, even though I understand they did it to make the stars align and bring in Clem as quickly as possible into the story. Negative feedback can be both presented and taken as one of two things -- poison or potential, and even when given poison there's a choice to hurt yourself with it or use it to get rid of what's plaguing you.
Yeah, that's why I added the dude on there and since Aron is a guy's name.
Yeah I said all your points previously and my initial point wasn't meant to correct it was meant to be an over simplification so people can elaborate and as I said I agree with the problems but I personally am not as affected as others because I like the story but the reason of all the factors you have listed are present is due to the length of the episodes this doesn't give us time for character development to include more clementine but people (my self included ) need more clementine but in my opinion the flashbacks aren't pointless as it highlights the limitations of being clem to be honest I think if she was more active in the episodes that would solve the problem however yet again they need longer episodes to provide opportunities to do this
ITT: An arrogant ass handwaves away any criticism of the season.
So basically don't listen to people that have a different opinion? Good advice :P
To be fair, most of it is bs.
The fans just don't like it cuz it's not what we're used to
I wrote a post about everything the fandom as a whole had a problem with, but someone tried to get it taken down.
The fans don't like it because we pay the same amount of money for half the content with more and more gameplay being removed every episode, might as well just watch it on youtube now.
We didn't see all of Clem's experiences in her flashbacks.
She spent a while with the New Frontier. So are we able to see every seconds and minutes of many weeks/months she lived with them? Of course not!
Since she was a member of the new frontier, of course Rufus knew her.
And there is plenties of character development in ANF.
This is why we got to see flasbacks from the Garcia family.
There is much more development of the Garcia's than any character in Season 2, wether you like them or not.
I hate Kate, but I can't tell she is not developed just because I don't like her. She is a very well written character.
And I barely care about Gabe and Kate. I liked Mariana the most, her death was bullshit. She was killed to just give us reasons to hate The New Frontier.
You are right.
We could have a lovely story with Mariana around and being Clem's friend like Sara was before.
Mariana seemed to be a little brave kid with a good spirit.
That's right
Maybe because TT blatantly mislead people on purpose for profit? Yeah it might be that.
I used to eagerly anticipate these episode releases. Now I don't really care because I know it will be more disappointing nonsense. I'm just hoping they cut their losses and back out of the obvious Clementine death I feel like is coming....
They don't even care how obvious this is too. It boggles the mind.
Let's release twice as much content but make it all roughly 1/3rd or more shorter each time and maximize profits. Who cares about the fans who LIKED our original work.
I totally agree. I think people only dislike it because the other 2 seasons were better and you got more emotionally involved with the story, but that doesn't mean anf is a bad game, just inferior to the last 2