I wonder if a love triangle can actually have a satisfying payoff of some kind? From what I understand, romance triangle sub-plots are usually detested to the point where it risks ruining character developments or behavior for the sake of cheap drama.
And considering the direction that ANF wants with Javier, Kate, and David, I doubt the writers would be able to pull it off in a way that doesn't make the love triangle seemed tacked on, especially if it seems forced on the players.
During the first hospital scene, I think Kate goes, "it's always been you and me on the road, that's how we've made it this far ..." and then she asks him to promise that they'll go back to that again or something. This doesn't scream shipping by any means, but in my opinion, there is some suggestion of that considering how even though I chose to be strictly platonic with Kate, her insistence and persistence that she and Javi leave New Frontier, and by default leave David, was a little off-putting to me.
I can understand why Kate wants to leave David and why she feels uncomfortable since he may have been abusive towards her, but her constant blatant flirting with her brother-in-law both prior and post apocalypse, even after I've attempted to reject her, was just plain annoying. I suppose, if I didn't have any issues with the pairing, I wouldn't see this as an annoyance, but since I don't personally like the two together, I saw this scene as another way that the game was "forcing" their relationship on the player. (By asking me to cater to her wishes and demands versus supporting David.)
Honestly thinking about what everyone is saying here, can I just say I don't get it? Outside of Javier saying he does have feelings for her,… more the whole Kate shipping thing wasn't really a thing in this episode and it's made pretty clear that her concern is more discomfort about being around David and the New Frontier after everything that's happened rather than anything pertaining to Javier himself. Is there a scene/line or something I don't know about?
During the first hospital scene, I think Kate goes, "it's always been you and me on the road, that's how we've made it this far ..." and then she asks him to promise that they'll go back to that again or something.
Ah, okay.Yeah, I can see how people could interpret it as that.
During the first hospital scene, I think Kate goes, "it's always been you and me on the road, that's how we've made it this far ..." and the… moren she asks him to promise that they'll go back to that again or something. This doesn't scream shipping by any means, but in my opinion, there is some suggestion of that considering how even though I chose to be strictly platonic with Kate, her insistence and persistence that she and Javi leave New Frontier, and by default leave David, was a little off-putting to me.
I can understand why Kate wants to leave David and why she feels uncomfortable since he may have been abusive towards her, but her constant blatant flirting with her brother-in-law both prior and post apocalypse, even after I've attempted to reject her, was just plain annoying. I suppose, if I didn't have any issues with the pairing, I wouldn't see this as an annoyance, but since I don't personally like the two together, I saw this scene… [view original content]
Yes. Thank you for saying all of this. I made sure to choose all of the platonic options when discussing and speaking with Kate, but like you said, the game still seems to suggest that Javier feels conflicted over his feelings for her OR that all of the other characters believed that they were an item.
Like with Eleanor: When she said "the way you two acted around each other," well that just confused me because if I chose to have Javi flirt or to act any certain way with anyone in this game, it was with Eleanor. And then later with Tripp: When I chose the option that Kate was family, Tripp didn't seem to believe Javi's answer, and most frustrating ... Javi's tone sounded as if he was in-denial with his answer. Like what did I do, what choices did I make to give these people the impression that there was something deeper going on?
Yeah, I'm really not liking this either. They give the player options to reject her, then later act like you didn't. It's quite obvious they… more want to create drama from this whole "affair" but if that's what the writers want, then go with your pre-established setting. Don't give the player consistent option to act against it if it's not going to matter. It's been shown Kate was already sweet on Javier before the apocalypse... and you could reject her. Then you could continue rejecting her in the present time, thus giving you the chance to play a scenario where this whole thing between them seems to have stayed one-sided. Yet they keep pushing it, Kate doesn't get it even if you choose every possible option to say "No!" and the other characters seem to think you two are romantically involved. They don't say things like: "Kate really cares about you." They say things like: "Oh, I thought you two were... you know..."
I get it that this is how K… [view original content]
So... stopping loving someone you previously stablished a relationship with and moving on with someone you truly love is immoral? I never saw "betrayal" as something wrong, honestly. You just can't choose to love someone. If I was in a relationship sith someone and then fell in love with someone else, I would go with it. And if someone left me for someone else, I wouldn't be angry or antagonze them. I would probably cry and feel worthless and wonder what did I do wrong, how can I be such a bad person to hurt someone I love so bad they stop loving me, and I didn't even realise until they told me.
So... stopping loving someone you previously stablished a relationship with and moving on with someone you truly love is immoral? I never s… moreaw "betrayal" as something wrong, honestly. You just can't choose to love someone. If I was in a relationship sith someone and then fell in love with someone else, I would go with it. And if someone left me for someone else, I wouldn't be angry or antagonze them. I would probably cry and feel worthless and wonder what did I do wrong, how can I be such a bad person to hurt someone I love so bad they stop loving me, and I didn't even realise until they told me.
It's not the guy's fault that your wife fell in love with him...
I don't undertand grown ups. Hell, man, what's up with the sensation of possetion they have of everything? Like, you don't have anything, not even your thoughts. They belong to whoever raised you.
Meh. Whatever. Do whatever you want, I'm no one to tell people what to do. Have a nice day setting an hypotetical dude in fire.
As much as I respect her desire to restart a new life- and I don't really care if it's with her husband's brother as long as they both conse… morent (considering the husband was... you know, considering dead. And we can tell the outbreak has been out for a while looking at how much Clementine grew up) but as a player who generally avoids romances I really dislike being pushed in that direction no matters what I try to do.
Also, it annoys me that:
1) David is totally taking for granted that nothing changed between him and his wife... or her feelings to.
2) No way to denial it
3) no way to actually, you know, mention it to David. In that I find Javi's behaviour even worse because during the trip back to Richmond he had all the time to mention it.
I kind of excuse her behaviour, thought, considering David was hinted to be aggressive/abusive, if not with the kids at least with her, so I can understand her need to run away. It felt like she w… [view original content]
I like how the game also tries to guilt trip you into trying to take David's wife and kid away from him. I just don't understand why she just doesn't tell him that she doesn't want to be with him rather than being sneaky about it behind his back and trying to get his own flesh and blood to betray him when he needs you the most.
Yes, Exactly! Every chance I was given to advance some kind of relationship with her I've always turned it down. But this freakin' game alwa… moreys perpetuates this notion that I have some sort of secret romance. I fear this is gonna force me into some forced drama with David, something I've been trying to avoid.
I think it's more her trying to convince Javi to leave David behind when he needs him the most. Trying to get David's own brother to betray him and also trying to take his own only son away from him after he thought he was dead just a couple days ago. That's so disrespectful. I mean David came back from serving his country and was actually there for his family through everything unlike Javier who only came back after he fucked up his own baseball career with his gambling problem. I can see why David would be mad at him.
Plus she would make advances towards Javier, but when Javier calls her out in front of David THEN she gets defensive and yells at you saying "how dare you even imply such a thing. I'm married and that's forever!" Plus how can we judge David from a two minute flashback over a cup? We're several years into the apocalypse so we could've at least gave him a chance considering he stuck his neck out for us and got Kate medical attention that ultimately saved her life.
I think some of you are ignoring the strong hints that David was abusive to Kate. We already got hints of that in the first two episodes and… more this episode even more so. Kate doesn't just want to hop on Javier, she wants away from David. Immediately and without hesitation. It's not so much about being with Javier then it is that she's terrified of David and outright says so. She suggests that most of her marriage with David she was living in some degree of stress or fear and doesn't want to do that again.
Personally I'm fine with the romance and think it makes sense considering the circumstances of the character. But people who are defensive of their bro David and think she's just being a bitch are missing not particularly subtle subtext.
What if the person you loved was shacking up with your brother/sister and lied to you about it? Then she tried to take your son and brother/sister away from you so she could have them for themselves. There's nothing wrong with someone who doesn't love someone anymore. However, it's disrespectful to do it behind your back, lie about it when confronted, and take away your family when you're in danger and desperately need their help.
So... stopping loving someone you previously stablished a relationship with and moving on with someone you truly love is immoral? I never s… moreaw "betrayal" as something wrong, honestly. You just can't choose to love someone. If I was in a relationship sith someone and then fell in love with someone else, I would go with it. And if someone left me for someone else, I wouldn't be angry or antagonze them. I would probably cry and feel worthless and wonder what did I do wrong, how can I be such a bad person to hurt someone I love so bad they stop loving me, and I didn't even realise until they told me.
I think we will see a flashback in the next ep that JAvi and Kate already had sex before the game begins, not before the walkers though, but in their travels.
God I hope so, but I doubt it. I didn't care much for her it in the first episode, and kept away from it. Then the second episode starts with a flashback soon after Javier starts crashing with his brother and his wife and kids after Javiers career went into the crapper, and she's flirting with him ALREADY. I mean, at that time she's still living with her husband, the dude who's ticked off at Javier for not being around until he needs help from his family. And she wants to run away with him.
I seem to be in the minority in that I actually like Kate. The way I see it, David is a hypocrite. He preaches to Javi about not abandoning his family and then does the same thing. Sure, he was getting his mother to the hospital but I don't buy his excuse that he couldn't get back. That he thought they were all dead would be a massive assumption. They waited for 3 months for him. He could have found a way.
Javi and Kate have been on the road a long time together. From what I've seen, she's trying to look after David's kids the best she can, despite the fact that she no longer seems to love David. She's not a bad person and at least she manages to still have a sense of humour! All I wanted was to keep her and Javi and the kids on the road, moving from place to place. Obviously a lot of stuff has happened since the first episode but my goal is still to keep her safe. I never wanted to stay in either of the communities as we all know they're just going to be trouble!
It might not be right for Javi and Kate to be together but I think they more than paid their dues looking after David's kids over the years. I feel like they deserve some happiness. If David wants to come along and continue to make it awkward so be it. I've tried to make Javi be honourable and have his brother's back. But I won't let that get in the way of keeping Kate safe.
I credit the hospital thing to poor writing in my book.
It's absolute nonsense that David would at no point in time worked his way back to the house. They barely even discuss this when it DOES come up.
Oh and Kate acts like your the biggest pile of crap in the world for NOT Moving in on your brothers wife at the WORST possible time to do so. Whom you just found out is still alive....who just realized his daughter died right before being reunited....who now knows never going back to the house was a fail....yyeeaahh lets start screwing eachother now! How DARE you think the timing is the epitome of inappropriate Javi?
I mean seriously how is that supposed to work out? David is just supposed to sit around knowing his brother is banging his wife? And be totally cool with it? GO good brother Javi. I thought for sure that would be a split choice but turns out 83% of xbox one players would still go for Kate regardless.
I despise Kate. I can only hope it worked out the right way....Not to mention Gabe who I also can't stand. Kate comes across as barely giving a crap about the kid and or even when M was alive. I could be wrong but does she reference how Gabe would take their relationship a single time? I don't think she does....?
I seem to be in the minority in that I actually like Kate. The way I see it, David is a hypocrite. He preaches to Javi about not abandoning … morehis family and then does the same thing. Sure, he was getting his mother to the hospital but I don't buy his excuse that he couldn't get back. That he thought they were all dead would be a massive assumption. They waited for 3 months for him. He could have found a way.
Javi and Kate have been on the road a long time together. From what I've seen, she's trying to look after David's kids the best she can, despite the fact that she no longer seems to love David. She's not a bad person and at least she manages to still have a sense of humour! All I wanted was to keep her and Javi and the kids on the road, moving from place to place. Obviously a lot of stuff has happened since the first episode but my goal is still to keep her safe. I never wanted to stay in either of the communities as we all know they're … [view original content]
After I met Eleanor, I flirted with her and went with her to junkyard and played my cards in that optional dialogue. I didnt kiss Kate in front of her. Beginning of second episode, Javier showed a great interest for Kate and I realized that Javier & Eleanor thing will never happen. I accepted Kate's offer. Realized that Telltale only gave us Kate and no one else. This is kind of makes sense because he spend 4 years with Kate in apocalypse and all, they must have a strong bond, unless Javier is gay or something. It is man's nature. I had a very better option Eleanor but game is not let us having her so Kate is our only option.
Maybe but this episode is basically firmly establishing their relationship without question. It'd be a bit odd to have the choice early without any build up.
Comments
But they were broken up so I thought I had a shot
I wonder if a love triangle can actually have a satisfying payoff of some kind? From what I understand, romance triangle sub-plots are usually detested to the point where it risks ruining character developments or behavior for the sake of cheap drama.
And considering the direction that ANF wants with Javier, Kate, and David, I doubt the writers would be able to pull it off in a way that doesn't make the love triangle seemed tacked on, especially if it seems forced on the players.
During the first hospital scene, I think Kate goes, "it's always been you and me on the road, that's how we've made it this far ..." and then she asks him to promise that they'll go back to that again or something. This doesn't scream shipping by any means, but in my opinion, there is some suggestion of that considering how even though I chose to be strictly platonic with Kate, her insistence and persistence that she and Javi leave New Frontier, and by default leave David, was a little off-putting to me.
I can understand why Kate wants to leave David and why she feels uncomfortable since he may have been abusive towards her, but her constant blatant flirting with her brother-in-law both prior and post apocalypse, even after I've attempted to reject her, was just plain annoying. I suppose, if I didn't have any issues with the pairing, I wouldn't see this as an annoyance, but since I don't personally like the two together, I saw this scene as another way that the game was "forcing" their relationship on the player. (By asking me to cater to her wishes and demands versus supporting David.)
"It takes one to know one. One pretty troublemaker."
"I'll give you that one."
both smile
Ah, okay.Yeah, I can see how people could interpret it as that.
Amazing how that one moment simultaneously gave her more character than Tripp and seemingly pissed off so many people at first.
#Eleanorisatraitor
Yes. Thank you for saying all of this. I made sure to choose all of the platonic options when discussing and speaking with Kate, but like you said, the game still seems to suggest that Javier feels conflicted over his feelings for her OR that all of the other characters believed that they were an item.
Like with Eleanor: When she said "the way you two acted around each other," well that just confused me because if I chose to have Javi flirt or to act any certain way with anyone in this game, it was with Eleanor. And then later with Tripp: When I chose the option that Kate was family, Tripp didn't seem to believe Javi's answer, and most frustrating ... Javi's tone sounded as if he was in-denial with his answer. Like what did I do, what choices did I make to give these people the impression that there was something deeper going on?
I know what you mean. I was kind of trying to put Javi with Eleanor but now this is just.... wow lol
So... stopping loving someone you previously stablished a relationship with and moving on with someone you truly love is immoral? I never saw "betrayal" as something wrong, honestly. You just can't choose to love someone. If I was in a relationship sith someone and then fell in love with someone else, I would go with it. And if someone left me for someone else, I wouldn't be angry or antagonze them. I would probably cry and feel worthless and wonder what did I do wrong, how can I be such a bad person to hurt someone I love so bad they stop loving me, and I didn't even realise until they told me.
Really? I'd get arrested for saying this but if my wife was cheating on me I'd hang the guy and set him on fire.
It's not the guy's fault that your wife fell in love with him...
I don't undertand grown ups. Hell, man, what's up with the sensation of possetion they have of everything? Like, you don't have anything, not even your thoughts. They belong to whoever raised you.
Meh. Whatever. Do whatever you want, I'm no one to tell people what to do. Have a nice day setting an hypotetical dude in fire.
Well....I dont know if it would have been a good idea to mention it to David....I cant imagine the conversation going north with David.
Javier : So David...while you were away Kate and I decided to hook up together
David : YOU MOFO
..or something like that...
As someone who hates any and all romantic subplots 95% of the time, I support this.
I shoot her down like she was a clay pigeon at every turn, yet the idea keeps popping back up. No means no Kate!
I like how the game also tries to guilt trip you into trying to take David's wife and kid away from him. I just don't understand why she just doesn't tell him that she doesn't want to be with him rather than being sneaky about it behind his back and trying to get his own flesh and blood to betray him when he needs you the most.
I think it's more her trying to convince Javi to leave David behind when he needs him the most. Trying to get David's own brother to betray him and also trying to take his own only son away from him after he thought he was dead just a couple days ago. That's so disrespectful. I mean David came back from serving his country and was actually there for his family through everything unlike Javier who only came back after he fucked up his own baseball career with his gambling problem. I can see why David would be mad at him.
Plus she would make advances towards Javier, but when Javier calls her out in front of David THEN she gets defensive and yells at you saying "how dare you even imply such a thing. I'm married and that's forever!" Plus how can we judge David from a two minute flashback over a cup? We're several years into the apocalypse so we could've at least gave him a chance considering he stuck his neck out for us and got Kate medical attention that ultimately saved her life.
What if the person you loved was shacking up with your brother/sister and lied to you about it? Then she tried to take your son and brother/sister away from you so she could have them for themselves. There's nothing wrong with someone who doesn't love someone anymore. However, it's disrespectful to do it behind your back, lie about it when confronted, and take away your family when you're in danger and desperately need their help.
I think we will see a flashback in the next ep that JAvi and Kate already had sex before the game begins, not before the walkers though, but in their travels.
God I hope so, but I doubt it. I didn't care much for her it in the first episode, and kept away from it. Then the second episode starts with a flashback soon after Javier starts crashing with his brother and his wife and kids after Javiers career went into the crapper, and she's flirting with him ALREADY. I mean, at that time she's still living with her husband, the dude who's ticked off at Javier for not being around until he needs help from his family. And she wants to run away with him.
I seem to be in the minority in that I actually like Kate. The way I see it, David is a hypocrite. He preaches to Javi about not abandoning his family and then does the same thing. Sure, he was getting his mother to the hospital but I don't buy his excuse that he couldn't get back. That he thought they were all dead would be a massive assumption. They waited for 3 months for him. He could have found a way.
Javi and Kate have been on the road a long time together. From what I've seen, she's trying to look after David's kids the best she can, despite the fact that she no longer seems to love David. She's not a bad person and at least she manages to still have a sense of humour! All I wanted was to keep her and Javi and the kids on the road, moving from place to place. Obviously a lot of stuff has happened since the first episode but my goal is still to keep her safe. I never wanted to stay in either of the communities as we all know they're just going to be trouble!
It might not be right for Javi and Kate to be together but I think they more than paid their dues looking after David's kids over the years. I feel like they deserve some happiness. If David wants to come along and continue to make it awkward so be it. I've tried to make Javi be honourable and have his brother's back. But I won't let that get in the way of keeping Kate safe.
I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain?
I credit the hospital thing to poor writing in my book.
It's absolute nonsense that David would at no point in time worked his way back to the house. They barely even discuss this when it DOES come up.
Oh and Kate acts like your the biggest pile of crap in the world for NOT Moving in on your brothers wife at the WORST possible time to do so. Whom you just found out is still alive....who just realized his daughter died right before being reunited....who now knows never going back to the house was a fail....yyeeaahh lets start screwing eachother now! How DARE you think the timing is the epitome of inappropriate Javi?
I mean seriously how is that supposed to work out? David is just supposed to sit around knowing his brother is banging his wife? And be totally cool with it? GO good brother Javi. I thought for sure that would be a split choice but turns out 83% of xbox one players would still go for Kate regardless.
I despise Kate. I can only hope it worked out the right way....Not to mention Gabe who I also can't stand. Kate comes across as barely giving a crap about the kid and or even when M was alive. I could be wrong but does she reference how Gabe would take their relationship a single time? I don't think she does....?
After I met Eleanor, I flirted with her and went with her to junkyard and played my cards in that optional dialogue. I didnt kiss Kate in front of her. Beginning of second episode, Javier showed a great interest for Kate and I realized that Javier & Eleanor thing will never happen. I accepted Kate's offer. Realized that Telltale only gave us Kate and no one else. This is kind of makes sense because he spend 4 years with Kate in apocalypse and all, they must have a strong bond, unless Javier is gay or something. It is man's nature. I had a very better option Eleanor but game is not let us having her so Kate is our only option.
I think I was pointing out how you went from talking about Kate to discussing every other character, for some reason.
This episode gives us the choice but I do wish they did that early
Maybe but this episode is basically firmly establishing their relationship without question. It'd be a bit odd to have the choice early without any build up.
Well, nobody needs to worry about that anymore.
Oh. I apologize. I didn't know I did that. Thank you for pointing it out.