Carl Grimes- Gabriel Garica?
Hi everyone, first things first I loved the crap out of episode 4! My clear favourite from Season 3 so far for many reasons (mostly because of the Kenny flashback and choices actually mattering and the tension in the ending scene... I haven't felt like that since the hostage scene at the end of A House Divided) so all in all a great episode and from Episode 3 onwards Season 3 is really improving, hopefully it doesn't do A Life Is Strange, in which the first 2 episodes were okay, 3 was brilliant, 4 was the best while 5 was just... meh, but after 3 and 4 I have high hopes for the finale.
But there is just one, major glaring problem with the episode that really brought down the whole experience.
and his name is Gabriel Garcia.
Now I've seen the other million hate threads on him after episode 4, mostly because of his hypocrisy when he criticizes you for killing Conrad and fair enough I can understand people's anger at that scene and I was angry too. But it was also a great way to show how your choices would come back to bite you in the ass, so I appreciated the scene for what it was but here's the issue I have, too me Gabe just isn't likeable and spending a lot of the episode with him really just made me want to skip those sections.
He seems absolutely hellbent on tearing the group apart just so he can save his daddy, who (while David maybe a good guy) he was absent while Kate and Javier cared for him and his sister for all those years. He comes across as spoilt and ungrateful for what they've done for him. I understand he wants his dad back, but shitting on the people who've looked after you for all those years is a complete dick move and earned me no sympathy points with him.
Now you're probably wondering why Carl from the comics is in the title, well him and Gabe are quite alike and that's another issue I have.
From the direction this series is taking, it seems to be setting up Gabe as some sort of successor to Javier in a similar way to how Carl is being set up in the comics to take over from Rick. Gabe's direction and characteristics seem just like Carl's and it bothers me more than the other child characters in the game, because I feel like I've seen Gabe's story before.
However annoying the other child characters were, at least they were original.
Clementine- Awesomely written and a sweet little girl (Season 1 wise at least) a child character done right that gave Season 1 a hell of a lot of heart.
Duck- Annoying sure, but he had his moments and is really like a lot of annoying little kids you're bound to come across.
Ben- Let's face it, we all know a Ben, or are one. Good intentions and really wanted to help the group but ends up fucking up, in hindsight I felt sorry for the guy and rooted for him because I wanted him to do something good.
Sarah- A mixture of Duck's childish nature and Ben's helplessness, but she was implied to have some sort of anxiety disorder, was very clingy to her dad and had tons of potential in her backstory, potential growth and relationship with Clem as her sort of mentor/friend. A really interesting character that was sadly killed off for shock value.
Arvo- Cowardly little shit, enough said, but I did feel sorry for him briefly, before he pulled a certain stunt.
Marianna- Sweet, normal-ish sort of like Clem in season 1 just a little more... what's the word, savvy? Had her own little quirks with her headphones and love for candy bars.
AJ- Well he is still a baby, but if you didn't get slightly emotional during the episode 3 flashback then... are you human? Yeah okay, he can be seen as a plot device but we can't judge him before he has any character to speak of as of yet.
These are all different to the characters we've either seen in the comics or show beforehand.
Sophia (show)- A bit bland to be honest, she just seemed to be there.
Sophia (Comic)- Seems to have development like Clem (in starting off weak but growing stronger after the loss of her parents) trouble is Sophia's development is off panel and we rarely see her these days. Seems like a mini-Andrea in the making.
Billy and Ben (Comic)- Barely any character, then it seemed Kirkman remembered they were still alive after the prison and decided to make one insane and kill off the other, so Carl could kill off the other to give the group a morale dilemma.
Billy (comic)- Rough around the edges but had good intentions.
Beth (TV show)- Sweet, shy babysitting character, was gaining momentum and character but was killed off at the worst possible way.
I know there are other child characters I probably missed, but the point was with every child or teenage character in the Telltale Game, they felt original, even If I hated their mistakes and inexperience at times at one point I felt bad for all of them, I felt like I wanted to protect them or mentor them and the problem is with Episode 4 is that expects you to feel this way about Gabe and the fact I didn't really took away from the experience.
It feels like they are pushing Gabe centre stage, at the expense of other child characters (hey Marianna seems nice and interesting and I really want to help her... oh snap she's dead) notice a pattern here with Carl? (I wonder what Billy and Ben have been doing all this time, oh one's killed the other... oh goodbye to them, Billy seems pretty inter... oh no he's dead too, hey Beth's finally... nope dead too!)
For both Carl and Gabriel (this is my personal opinion) I feel like more interesting child characters are either killed off or pushed to the side to make room for them. I don't particularly like Carl that much in the comics and adding to the fact every other character around their age that is alive and of the opposite sex has to be a romantic interest or crush for them (Gabe with Clem, Carl with Lydia and Sophia in the comics and Erin and Beth in the TV show) bothers me. Can they not just be friends?
The bottom line is from all of this is that I dislike Gabe as he seems to be based on one my least favourite comic book characters. His little romance with Clem is also a red flag. I don't mind the thought of the shipping, I mean it could work it's just the fact it feels forced and the people who ship Gabe and Clem main argument for them being together is "oh but they look so cute together".
But I can't root for the romance if there's no substance behind it, make me want these characters to get together Telltale rather than force it down my throat, at least they tried that with Rhys and Sasha and made them likeable and work well together, what have we had with Gabe and Clem at the moment, that matches to the conversations and interactions between Rhys and Sasha?
While I liked the scene in Episode 4 and the chat they had in Episode 2 we have barely seen them interact otherwise. Maybe allow us to play as Clem in the present so we can chat to Gabe? Build up a relationship, make us root for it, rather than simply have Gabe develop this "crush" and expecting us as a player to simply accept that "they can make each other happy" and that "they look cute together!" because I don't buy it and can't root for it. Maybe I'm looking at this in a biased way, but since Season 1 I've been protective over Clem and of course I'd hiss at any boy approaching her, especially whiny, spoilt, ungrateful little hypocrites.
Carl is a complex and frustrating character and I feel the same way with Gabe, for all his fuck up's the game's way of trying to make him good is that "he likes Clem, so surely he can't be bad" and "I LUV MAH DAD! JAVI! JAVI! LET'S GET EVERYONE KILLED SO I CAN GET BACK TO MAH DAD!".
Maybe drop the obvious crush, have him and Clementine become friends first and get along well, then it can evolve into something which I can root for If I enjoy the dynamic (like I did with Rhys and Fiona). But maybe focus more on his anger issues, make him wanting to help a more prominent part of his character and make him more sympathetic like Ben was, don't give me a grouchy Carl wannabe, who gets the same special treatment and plot armour that Carl does, just without going through nearly an inch of what Carl has been through.
For me my hope for him in Episode 5 (if he is to survive the season) is to mature, learn to be damn grateful for what Javi has done for him and have him apologise for his whiny behaviour and maybe put a backburner on his crush on Clementine or at least make it optional like they did with Kate and Javi.
To conclude do you feel Gabe is too much like Carl? Or do you think differently? Does he drag down Season 3 for you, or are you able to live with him?
All answers and comments welcome! Thank you for somehow being able to read through this novel.
Comments
Clem does this, too. she compromises the whole group and Lee because she wanted to reunite with her parents. And her only lead was a stranger on a walkie talkie. The result of the event costed Lee's life and the separation of the whole group.
Also what is with Clem's disrespect towards Christa? She spent two years with Christa. And she never mentions her, only lee.
Carl is a better character than Gabe. They are, or were, similar but Carl proves himself later in the comics (like sneaking in the sanctuary and killing Saviors, standing up to Negan, and following his Dad's orders). At least with Carl he can handle himself well and I like to compare his personality/experience with Clementine, something Gabe doesn't have.
At this point in the game, there's no chance Gabe can handle someone like Clem. It's too late for him to step up and become a man. IF he and Clem do become a thing, I can see Clem getting annoyed with Gabe's constant whining.
(Can someone who supports Gabentine give me a valid reason why you ship these two besides "Oh they're so cute together")?
That's actually a good point, but the fact was, I cared enough about Clementine to get her away from the stranger and that kept me playing and on the edge of my seat. Yes, she didn't earn any sympathy points with me either for her choice, but I found I was able to forgive her and save her, plus she was 9 at the time and had been nothing short of selfless, kind and caring for the group and appreciative of Lee regardless of her actions.
With Gabe I don't feel the same, I haven't grown to like him and his older than Clem was when she made the mistake to follow the stranger and unintentionally doom the group. Whereas you can argue Gabe is more sheltered than Clem, but Gabe is much more aware of the stakes here and what could be lost, rather than being a naive 9 year old tricked by a random stranger.
Also with Clem, she became aware of the fact the stranger was bad, she helped drag Lee to the jewellery store after discovering the fate of her parents, I knew when I saved Clem, I was going to get the appreciation Lee damn deserved. Plus she is shown to regret her mistake come the scene in All That Remains when she discusses her past with Luke.
With Gabe, why should I bother? If I saved his ass (which I feel like I might have too multiple times) he'd just consistently seemed spoilt and ungrateful to me and if David somehow died I know full well it would be Javi's fault no matter what and I can see Gabe whining and making life difficult for Javi, going as far to truly betray/leave him for dead.
Hence why I want to see Gabe mature like Clem did and realise his mistakes and apologise for them, it's the only way I can come to like his character.
As for Christa, yeah, it's all Kenny, Kenny, Kenny, Lee, Lee, Lee, with a sprinkling of Jane and some Luke thrown in, basically whoever seems more popular in the fandom gets more attention and it's a shame considering all the things Christa must have done for Clem.
But hell, at least Clem can try and save her life when they get separated and asks for her throughout Season 2. I wish (when Clem was discussing her period and travelling with women) Christa could have been brought up once again, it would have been a nice to see that she still thinks about Christa and hasn't completely forgotten about her.
I thought this was a shipping thread when I saw the title
I was like nonononono.
fair enough, I'm not a huge fan of Carl but I can't deny his capable of defending himself and he has come a long way.
Also although he doesn't whine as much as Gabe, I personally find Carl to be overrated and have quite the sulky personality that just draws me away from his character (hence I don't understand how he gets almost insta-sex with Lydia. I understand they spoke a lot when Lydia was locked up, but I really didn't like it or the pair of them together in my opinion, it felt like a cheap way to make Carl look more badass and manly).
I personally found Carl's character best when he was on his own after the prison and had to care for his sick father, after just losing his mother and baby sister, that's when I liked him best, because we saw he was still a child and you could see how he was struggling but fighting on. Hell, maybe that's what Gabe needs, some time to deal with a shitty situation on his own, so he can realise how fucked he'd be without a group.
Awful example here, but say Emily from Until Dawn, who was a completely unlikeable bitch throughout the entire game, but really shows her resourcefulness and fights on when she is alone in the mines and that's where I actually started to like her, yes she was still the same whining girl we all love to hate, but she was smart and looking back at the game in a whole, actually says a lot of stuff that makes sense which I didn't notice at first because I was too busy hating her.
Point proven, characters like Emily or Carl had those moments, Gabe hasn't so far and you might in right that trying to cram that all until the final episode might be too little too late for his development.
As for Gabentine, I got nothing for ya...
Hopefully I haven't given people the wrong idea
Dear God what have I created?
I have a remedy that will get everyone to like Gabe, a bullet. I feel if he gets shot he will learn humility and know his limits, giving him a new perspective of life and how quickly it can go. This plot device will quickly turn him into the character that the haters can't hate because Gabe wouldn't be as bratty and have some street cred.
Obviously, Lydia was playing Carl. She was using her tool to establish the only ally that she can trust so she can maybe survive her situation. Also, because the animistic behavior that her group practice influenced her to do so.