He did that because Arvo got Luke killed.
Not sure how scrawny Arvo hobbling halfway across the opposite side of the lake caused the… more also hobbling on one leg and no doubt heavier Luke to fall in.
Also, Kenny was abusing him long before that and outright beating him in the house was just escalation.
That's because Arvo thinks she shot his sister ALIVE. How come he didn't notice that Natasha's skin was rotten?
Mike and Bonnie sided with a nerd who almost got them killed and leaves a kid and a baby with all the supplies they had. Bonnie was a backstabbing shitbird anyway cause she betrayed a lot of people.
I almost didn't respond to this because it's potentially derailing, but there are other [determinate] reasons for Arvo to do that.
The fact of the matter is that if it wasn't for Kenny's anger issues, Mike wouldn't have freed Arvo and tried to run off with most of the supplies, which ended with Clementine getting s… [view original content]
In season one it was always, "Lee you didn't take my side so fuck you", "We need to get a boat! You disagree? Fuck you we are getting a boat anyways!", "Kill Larry! Kill Ben! What? You didn't kill them? Fuck you!".
When it's the case of throwing his own son out to the walkers because he was "bit," and you sided against him, do you expect him to not be pissed about that? The thing you have to remember is that did these things or acted this way not because he was trying to prove something, like Gabe does, it's because he was looking out for his family and trying to protect those he cares about. Him wanting to get a boat is because he thinks it's the safer and better option for his family, and like any husband/father, they are going to be his main priority no matter what, and when he thinks they are in a situation where their lives are put in danger (being at a easily attackable motel with constant bandit raids and little food), then yeah, he's going to get upset. With Larry's case, no one knew if he was going to be okay, he could have been dead for all we know. It's not like Kenny was "Larry's an asshole, first opportunity, let's kill him," you can tell it was something he didn't want to do, but since Larry becoming a walker posed a serious and credible threat, he wanted to ensure that it wouldn't happen, not only to save himself, but everyone else in the room, including Lilly. Could he have waited and handled it better, yes, I will concede, but again, his purpose was everyone's safety, including his family. A family that, later, was killed by Ben, so again, he's going to get pissed not only at him, but at anyone who doesn't let him get his revenge. However, in the case with Ben, he realized that he was wrong and would go on to even attempt to sacrifice himself to help Ben. All of these reactions come from Kenny wanting to protect or do what was best for his family, that was always his drive, the difference with Gabe is that he's doing shit to try and prove that he's a man. Kenny's comes from an area of selflessness, while Gabe's is pretty selfish.
But wait it gets better. Season 2 was a cluster fuck of whining. He whines because you don't want to fight Carver head on. He whines because you take Luke's side. He whines and blames you for Saritas death whether or not you cut her arm off. He whines about how he's lost so much (so has everyone, he isn't special) and he even tells you he can't look at you if you tell him to stop acting like he is the only one who's lost people. He whines if you disagree with Wellington. He whines if you side with Jane.
Many of this, again, goes back to his want to protect family (Sarita), those he considers family (Clem), and the group. Yes he can be quite abrasive and quick to judgment in his methods, as proven with Larry in the meatlocker, but in the case with not wanting to fight Carver, he sees it as giving up. In a time when everyone has pretty much given up, Kenny was the only one who was attempting to figure a way out of the situation and get everyone to safety, and seeing everyone just go along with a madman's attempts to imprison them would anger anyone. Not to mention that his anger stems from the fact that it was the cabin group who got him and Sarita in this mess in the first place. And him "whining" over the death of his girlfriend seems pretty justifiable. But again, like with Ben, he acknowledges and apologizes for his fuck up, expressing a genuine sense of remorse over how he acted towards Clem, who he probably looked at as a sort of surrogate daughter. Kenny is a man who, often times, lets his emotions get the best of him (denying Duck was going to turn, Sarita's death), and while this is a constant problem, at least Kenny has the ability to recognize his mistakes, know when he was in the wrong, and own up to it. Gabe does no such thing. He makes stupid decision that can potentially or actually hurt the group (Javi getting stabbed), but he doesn't put himself at fault. And then, because he's pissed he's not getting his way, he rats out Javi killing Conrad (which was to save Gabe), and then acts like Javi punishing him isn't his fault, but Javi's. While both act out of emotion in the heat of the moment, once everything settles down, Kenny is able to see he was in the wrong, but Gabe continues to act like he's the victim.
What does Gabe whine about? That he wants to help? How is that worst than Kenny's whining?
Gabe whines about how he's getting treated like a kid. On the surface, it may seem like a genuine thing to complain about. However, the reason people do this is because he either keeps making stupid decisions or continues to act like a kid, doing nothing to try and fix it. Act like a kid, you'll get treated like a kid. His whining comes from a selfish perspective of trying to prove something, not so much to the group, but to himself, that he can be a man like his dad. But in his attempts to not screw up, he makes even more screw ups which put himself, and others, in even worse predicaments. He has done nothing to prove his worth, while Kenny has actually shown his worth. Kenny may argue, but he at least gets stuff done (getting the RV working, form the plan to get away from Carver, get to Wellington, etc.) Gabe whines and does nothing.
What exactly has Gabe fucked up on?
I know someone else already posted this, but allow me to reiterate. Along with getting Javi stabbed, Gabe poured medical alcohol in Kate's wound, pointed a gun at Conrad instead of trying to calmly settle the dispute (which would have been an actual attempt to step up, not point a gun at someone), puts himself in danger recklessly, and rats Javi out for killing Conrad, losing Tripp and Eleanor's support. Not to mention his plans put more people in peril, but hey, it's okay, because if they work, he'll come out as the hero, effectively proving that he's a man. Kenny, while his plans weren't always thought out fully, wasn't to get him glory or thanks, it was to genuinely help people, even those he does not like. Kenny, for his arguing and defensiveness, is incredibly loyal, but Gabe, even if you are nice to him, will stab you in the back on the Conrad issue.
First of, he is responsible for Shawns death. He is responsible for Lily going crazy. He killed her dad and blames you when things go to shit because of what he did. He ultimately gets Lee killed because he stole supplies from the stranger
In the case of Shawn, true, but again, he owns up to it. He knows he screwed up, he knows he could have saved him if he didn't panic, and blames himself for his death. And while I don't entirely defend his actions, you also have to remember that his main concern was for his son, who was also getting attacked and potentially still in danger, and as a father, he's naturally going to pick his son's safety over anyone else. Should he have run and let Shawn die, no, but it's not because of him looking out for himself, but trying to look out for Duck. And while he is angry if you choose not to help kill Larry, never does he blame you for Lilly going crazy or for any of the shit that happens afterwards. And I guess you're forgetting how everyone partakes in stealing from the van, including Lilly.
In season 2 he gets Alvin killed if he shoots Carver (He blames you for getting caught if you choose not to let him shoot Carver). He also tore the group apart because he can't control his anger. So who fucked up more?
And he blames himself if, had you gone out to look for Kenny, you tell him to shoot, not Clem (you). And even if you tell him not to shoot Carver, he doesn't get angry with you as a result. What tore the group apart was Luke's death, which is entirely because of Arvo. Kenny wanted to kill him from the start (so another thing he ended up being right about), and had Arvo not run, causing everyone to chase after him, Luke wouldn't have died. Kenny had a plan, get everyone to Wellington, it was everyone else that fought him over that and offered poor alternatives (Mike wants to head west, no real destination, and Jane wants to go back to Howes, which just got run over by a herd). Without Luke there able to balance the situation, Mike tries to steal the truck and food with Arvo and Clem getting shot. Had Jane not pushed Kenny, hide AJ, and force him into a fight, they would have all made it to Wellington, no problem. Did Kenny ever try to smooth things out, no, but the fall of the group is surely not on him because, again, he was trying to get stuff done and get everyone to safety.
When was Gabe shown to be a coward?
Never, the fact that you're using this as an argument baffles me because no one has called him a coward.
You know if you don't kill Larry, Kenny is ready to let you die when Danny points a gun at you because he is scared.
You know if you do help kill Larry, Kenny comes out and helps you when Danny points a gun at you, so it's not because he's scared.
He was ready to let Lee die in ep 3 when he was caught under all those walkers.
He also comes to his rescue, both this and the previous example are impacts of your choices. Kenny screwing you over is because of your choices, Gabe screwing you over happens regardless.
In season 2 he breaks down whenever anything happens, and hides away in a tent yelling at everyone while throwing a tantrum. Seems pretty cowardly in my opinion.
He breaksdown once, and it was a result of Sarita's death. How is mourning cowardly? Sarita was the one who found him, and before Clem and AJ came into his life, she was really his only reason to keep going, so with her gone, he feels alone. He even says it himself, "I can't be alone again." However, while others would have just pulled the trigger, ended it right then and there, Kenny is way too strong to even contemplate suicide. He criticized Katjaa for doing it back in Episode 5, so there's no way he would do the same. So even if he was going to be alone, had there been no reason to keep going, because he's so strong, Kenny would have kept fighting until he couldn't. That doesn't sound cowardly to me.
Ultimately, what it comes down to with Kenny is that, while his methods are not always the best and he lets his emotions get the best of him, his argumentative behavior stems from a selfless desire to help everyone in the group, including the people he may not even like. Despite his flaws, there is a good man deep within that we don't always get to see because of other people getting in the way. Look at how he acts when it's just him and Clem, that's who Kenny was, is, and always will be. But with Gabe, while on the surface it all may seem well and good, it's more of a mission to try and prove to himself that he can step up, but doesn't actually do anything to prove it, and when he does, he screws up, doesn't learn from it, and blames others for not treating him like a man. Actions speak louder than words, Kenny's actions were for the better of the group, and most times, he turned out to be right, but Gabe expects his words to be able to be enough, his actions prove otherwise. We got to see, experience, and even feel why Kenny gets angry, the loss of his family, everything he holds he dear, it gives his words and action proper motivation and reasoning, and we have a better understanding of them as a result. Gabe's character does not have that luxury.
I have an other opinion as others so let me prove how absolutely wrong and hypocritical all of you are with a bunch of arguments took out of the context.
Those arguments can be easily used the other way to prove you are hypocritical for liking Gabe and hating on Kenny.
I didn't know about the alcohol but hardly matters since it didn't translate into anything.
This is a prime example of how you shoul… mored do sufficient research before making any serious claims and calling people a hypocrite and secondly it didn't translate into anything because the writing made it so. In a real life situation it could have put her heart in serious shock and cause her to die.
Pointing a gun at a man who is threatening his uncle and having enough restraint not to shoot him?
So what, are we supposed to be proud of him for, "having enough restraint not to shoot him."?
Because he was still unarmed and acting in an aggressive manner towards the man who he believed had caused the death of his wife.
I'd say it's perfectly justified to be angry with Javi in this situation had he opened fired on the people holding Francine captive and if it was truly a serious threat Conrad was making then Tripp or some other perf… [view original content]
Exactly. Kenny made mistakes (like everyone does, no one is perfect), but he also had A LOT of moments where he was the shining light. Gabe has none of these positive moments. He is literally an always complaining millstone around everyone's neck.
Gabe has had 0 Shining moments when we can say, good job Gabe apart from him finding us at that window (Determinant) other than that hes jus… moret a character who has done alot of stupid shit. Not even going to talk about Kenny because hes had his bad moments but hes had some very honourable ones too ( Losing his eye for Clem, saving ben/Christa etc ). Until Gabe has some of those moments Gabe is nowhere near my list of favoured characters as Kenny is in my top 3
(Team Kenny)
This is why i love Kenny as a character. Nearly every action he makes can either be interpreted as well intentioned or absolutely monstrous with no foresight.
You know what I truly find fascinating about Kenny?
How even in death, the guy somehow still gets people comparing him to other character… mores. The guy's like the debate king.
Seriously, even when his name is mentioned, it's like this entire place goes:
You know what I truly find fascinating about Kenny?
How even in death, the guy somehow still gets people comparing him to other character… mores. The guy's like the debate king.
Seriously, even when his name is mentioned, it's like this entire place goes:
Seriously! He had to be the most polarizing dude in this entire franchise!
It's kind of sad to admit, but I'm not so sure they're ever gonna create another character that can match him in that way. And that's coming from a guy who was Pro-Jane for three years.
This is why i love Kenny as a character. Nearly every action he makes can either be interpreted as well intentioned or absolutely monstrous with no foresight.
It's brilliant writing if you ask me.
Good point, Kenny as I can recap he is the reason at time too mess up even tho he's trying toodefend his love one like back at (season 1) Kattcha and Duck and in season 2 Serita , it comes too show when your trying to defend your love ones they'll always die at the end.
(However) he did redeem himself in (season 3) by giving Clementine too escape before the walkers (devoured) him.
(Kenny the Messiah) , has come to deliver Javi and Clementine from (the new frontier and the herd of walkers) along with Jesus, glen , Abraham and Hershel green.
Mike wouldn't have freed Arvo and tried to run off with most of the supplies, which ended with Clementine getting shot.
Kenny's anger issues or not, he was still an idiot to free up a kid who almost got him killed.
I really don't understand why everyone liked Kenny so much.
He was very selfish in season 1.
Larry even wasn't dead. When Lee tried to save Larry, we saw Larry starting to breath, and Kenny just killed him. That was very fucked up. Lee could have saved Larry. This was the beginning of a grieving Lilly to get crazy.
In season 2 Kenny was good to Clem because she was all he had. The family man was very protective to kids but an asshole in groups.
Arvo was a good kid.
He tried to calm down the Russians, but the language was a problem. The Russians were supposed to let them go, but when the walker Rebecca was shot, everyone started to shoot each other.
Mike wouldn't have freed Arvo and tried to run off with most of the supplies, which ended with Clementine getting shot.
Kenny's anger issues or not, he was still an idiot to free up a kid who almost got him killed.
How exactly? He saved the group by fixing the RV. Jane was the selfish one.
Larry even wasn't dead. When Lee tried to save Larry, we saw Larry starting to breath, and Kenny just killed him. That was very fucked up. Lee could have saved Larry. This was the beginning of a grieving Lilly to get crazy.
That could have been Larry about to become a walker, you know. Kenny was just protecting everyone from walker Larry. They didn't have weapons to defend themselves.
an asshole in groups.
How? He isn't the one who joined the group. He isn't the reason Carver came after the cabin group. It's actually their fault for destroying Kenny's new life.
I really don't understand why everyone liked Kenny so much.
He was very selfish in season 1.
Larry even wasn't dead. When Lee tried to sav… moree Larry, we saw Larry starting to breath, and Kenny just killed him. That was very fucked up. Lee could have saved Larry. This was the beginning of a grieving Lilly to get crazy.
In season 2 Kenny was good to Clem because she was all he had. The family man was very protective to kids but an asshole in groups.
Kenny should have wait until he really died.
And he didn't...yet.
Like Lee several times passed out after he was bitten and Kenny didn't kill Lee.
But I understand being locked in the meatlocker was a very scary situation with a man who just passed out.
Still Kenny was rude and selfish many times.
Especially when peoples not always agreed with him he would have just left them to the walkers. He did with Lilly and Lee.
Fixing the rv was for his families sake, not the others.
He was very selfish in season 1.
How exactly? He saved the group by fixing the RV. Jane was the selfish one.
Larry even wasn't… more dead. When Lee tried to save Larry, we saw Larry starting to breath, and Kenny just killed him. That was very fucked up. Lee could have saved Larry. This was the beginning of a grieving Lilly to get crazy.
That could have been Larry about to become a walker, you know. Kenny was just protecting everyone from walker Larry. They didn't have weapons to defend themselves.
an asshole in groups.
How? He isn't the one who joined the group. He isn't the reason Carver came after the cabin group. It's actually their fault for destroying Kenny's new life.
I disagree with the entire post. You can't just call me a hypocrite since I don't like gabe, but I liked Kenny and nick lol. I want Gabe gone because it looks like telltale is trying to ship him with Clem, the character I molded for two seasons, regardless of what I think about it. That just doesn't sit right with me at all. On top of that, I just don't really feel anything for him, and so I couldn't care less if he died. As a matter of fact, I hope he dies because then it lessens the chances that Javier or clementine or Conrad or Tripp/Ava will die, which are characters I actually like. Anyone in the Garcia family could die in episode 5, and I probably wouldn't be very effected at all unless it's javi.
Kenny should have wait until he really died.
And he didn't...yet.
Like Lee several times passed out after he was bitten and Kenny didn't k… moreill Lee.
But I understand being locked in the meatlocker was a very scary situation with a man who just passed out.
Still Kenny was rude and selfish many times.
Especially when peoples not always agreed with him he would have just left them to the walkers. He did with Lilly and Lee.
Fixing the rv was for his families sake, not the others.
Kenny should have wait until he really died.
And he didn't...yet.
Like Lee several times passed out after he was bitten and Kenny didn't k… moreill Lee.
But I understand being locked in the meatlocker was a very scary situation with a man who just passed out.
Still Kenny was rude and selfish many times.
Especially when peoples not always agreed with him he would have just left them to the walkers. He did with Lilly and Lee.
Fixing the rv was for his families sake, not the others.
Kenny should have wait until he really died.
And he didn't...yet.
Like Lee several times passed out after he was bitten and Kenny didn't k… moreill Lee.
But I understand being locked in the meatlocker was a very scary situation with a man who just passed out.
Still Kenny was rude and selfish many times.
Especially when peoples not always agreed with him he would have just left them to the walkers. He did with Lilly and Lee.
Fixing the rv was for his families sake, not the others.
In season one it was always, "Lee you didn't take my side so fuck you", "We need to get a boat! You disagree? Fuck you we are getting a boat… more anyways!", "Kill Larry! Kill Ben! What? You didn't kill them? Fuck you!".
When it's the case of throwing his own son out to the walkers because he was "bit," and you sided against him, do you expect him to not be pissed about that? The thing you have to remember is that did these things or acted this way not because he was trying to prove something, like Gabe does, it's because he was looking out for his family and trying to protect those he cares about. Him wanting to get a boat is because he thinks it's the safer and better option for his family, and like any husband/father, they are going to be his main priority no matter what, and when he thinks they are in a situation where their lives are put in danger (being at a easily attackable motel with constant bandit raids and little food), then yea… [view original content]
Larry was fucking breathing when Lee tried to save him.
So just killing him was a bad decision.
And he asked Lee to kill Ben who was just a stupid kid who never meant to hurt someone.
I know Kenny has finally a good heart but he always made rashed decision caused by anger or fears.
Except Lilly. After what she did for the group he was being an asshole.
He wanted to leave her for the walkers and she saved his selfish ass when the bandits attacked them.
And he would have left Lee for the walkers too determinantly when Lee shot the girl.
Kenny really had a bad attitude some times.
Fixing the rv was for his families sake, not the others.
He offered Lee to come along as he has "more than earned it" (determinately). So he was fixing this RV for basically everyone (except Lilly).
Not on my playthrough he didn't. I shot the girl and he still helped my Lee out. So you must've determinately argued that his son is bit and should be thrown out + didn't help kill Larry, and possibly tried to save Shawn over Duck.
But that is the point: Kenny is only DETERMINATELY a dick to Lee, if Lee is siding against him all the time, and who wouldn't be pissed then? Gabe is a prick to Javi regardless of your choices/is being a brat regardless.
Except Lilly. After what she did for the group he was being an asshole.
He wanted to leave her for the walkers and she saved his selfish as… mores when the bandits attacked them.
And he would have left Lee for the walkers too determinantly when Lee shot the girl.
Kenny really had a bad attitude some times.
What a way to cause an argument. Thanks for being a total fuckwit for calling people hypocrites.
Except that your vision of Kenny's whining isn't the same as Gabe at all. Kenny spoke his mind and said exactly how he felt during all those times you mentioned. Shitty in some cases you may think so but totally understandable in a lot of cases and a lot of the time in my opinion he was right and I don't blame him for his treatment of a man who determinantely was shitty to him and his family. We all have opinions and there was just no need to say what you did.
Gabe is just badly written, simple as, and he is "whiney" in a completely different way
(I know I might make some people mad with my assertions in this post. I don't have anything against Kenny haters, and I do understand why ar… moreound half of the fanbase prefer Jane over him, hell I shot him myself. This is the only post I'm going to make about Kenny. If you disagree with anything I said please feel free to do so.)
No I'm not. Gabe and Kenny are two different characters. Just because they are both prone to anger when things don't go their way doesn't mean my favoring of Kenny over Gabe is any less justified.
You wanna know why I forgive Kenny for his wrongdoing and not Gabe? It's because I understand where his whining and anger comes from. He lost his family in an instant. His wife committed suicide right in front of him and he had to watch his son get shot right before his own eyes, possibly by his own hand. I'm sure damn near anyone would probably go apeshit after that.
"What about Larry? He wouldn't stop bitching about… [view original content]
Larry was fucking breathing when Lee tried to save him.
So just killing him was a bad decision.
And he asked Lee to kill Ben who was just… more a stupid kid who never meant to hurt someone.
I know Kenny has finally a good heart but he always made rashed decision caused by anger or fears.
In season one it was always, "Lee you didn't take my side so fuck you", "We need to get a boat! You disagree? Fuck you we are getting a boat… more anyways!", "Kill Larry! Kill Ben! What? You didn't kill them? Fuck you!".
When it's the case of throwing his own son out to the walkers because he was "bit," and you sided against him, do you expect him to not be pissed about that? The thing you have to remember is that did these things or acted this way not because he was trying to prove something, like Gabe does, it's because he was looking out for his family and trying to protect those he cares about. Him wanting to get a boat is because he thinks it's the safer and better option for his family, and like any husband/father, they are going to be his main priority no matter what, and when he thinks they are in a situation where their lives are put in danger (being at a easily attackable motel with constant bandit raids and little food), then yea… [view original content]
You know what I truly find fascinating about Kenny?
How even in death, the guy somehow still gets people comparing him to other character… mores. The guy's like the debate king.
Seriously, even when his name is mentioned, it's like this entire place goes:
Arvo was a good kid.
He tried to calm down the Russians, but the language was a problem. The Russians were supposed to let them go, but when the walker Rebecca was shot, everyone started to shoot each other.
Arvo may have been a good kid, but Clem's group had to suffer due to his fuck up (trying to hide the medicine from his group, probably because he wanted to get away with his sister). So he got an excuse by blaming Clem's group to get his ass out of the line.
I didn't steal the medicine, but he still said we robbed him. It was an easy excuse to not get in trouble.
Arvo was a good kid.
He tried to calm down the Russians, but the language was a problem. The Russians were supposed to let them go, but when the walker Rebecca was shot, everyone started to shoot each other.
Oh yes it was totally his fault that the cabin group are gone (sarcasm). It's not like they turned up out of the blue at a decent home (the ski lodge) he was staying at with Sarita and ended up being taken hostage because of them right? And ohhh yes he was to blame for Alvin's howe's death too right? Or both of Nick's deaths? And Pete's? Carlos and Sarah's deaths? And he caused Rebecca and Luke's deaths too did he?
Funny how all those characters deaths had nothing to do with Kenny yet as always a typical hater has to push the blame onto him lol. It really makes me chuckle
I didn't know about the alcohol but that hardly matters since it didn't translate to anything.
You mean Conrad? Pointing a gun at a man wh… moreo was threatening his uncle and having enough restraint not to shoot him?
The rest is just like Kenny. Kenny made Lee look like an asshole for killing/not killing the girl on the streets. Kenny cause a big divide in his group for not listening to plans and being overly aggressive. He is the reason there is no more cabin group. See...hypocrite. Whatever Gabe is guilty of so is Kenny. Only difference is Kenny is a grown ass man. Gabe is a teen.
He even tried to save all their asses even though it was their fault he lost everything.
Theoretically, it's the Cabin Group's fault Sarita is gone, if you follow the cascade of events. And Kenny still helps the remains of the Cabin Group.
He is the reason there is no more cabin group.
Oh yes it was totally his fault that the cabin group are gone (sarcasm). It's not lik… moree they turned up out of the blue at a decent home (the ski lodge) he was staying at with Sarita and ended up being taken hostage because of them right? And ohhh yes he was to blame for Alvin's howe's death too right? Or both of Nick's deaths? And Pete's? Carlos and Sarah's deaths? And he caused Rebecca and Luke's deaths too did he?
Funny how all those characters deaths had nothing to do with Kenny yet as always a typical hater has to push the blame onto him lol. It really makes me chuckle
Well, like I said, the alcohol incident did not lead to anything so it was pointless bringing it up. Besides, Gabe's intent wasn't to hurt Kate. He didn't do it out of impulse either. Sorry for not looking into benign points.
As for Conrad, you are doing some serious reaching here. I don't care who it is and if they are unarmed. If anyone is threatening my family you bet your ass I would pull a gun on them. You can't assume anyone would step in because things happen in an instance. And yes, he didn't shoot. He has more self control than impulsive Kenny who would just bash a guys head in before finding out if he is truly gone. Beside, it wasn't Javi's fault at all. Even if he surrenders Conrad still blames you. He was irrational there is no defending him here.
Yes, Kenny was partially responsible for the destruction of the group. It was Kenny who shot Carver and got Alvin killed (Walt's death is also Kenny's fault). I still believe the Cabin group was better off waiting for the herd to pass to even attempt an escape. But as Mike told Kenny "you don't plan to improvise". His impatience cost people their lives. He is also partly to blame for getting Reggie in trouble. He just had to egg Clementine on to find a way out instead of waiting and planning. Luke died because Kenny was for whatever reason obsessed with torturing Arvo. Kenny is the reason Mike and Bonnie defected and the reason Jane felt the need to expose him. You can not deny any of this.
Yes, Kenny made Lee look like an asshole. "We had to let a girl get eaten to survive" and everyone else disapproves. If you do shoot the girl Kenny says "Lee shot a girl in the streets" to which everyone is shocked. Just like Gabe it would have been best for him to keep his mouth shut instead of causing drama.
I like how you only mentioned Lily v Kenny and not Kenny v Luke or Kenny and the Cabin group and Mike. He is to blame for Mike and Bonnie's defection. He is to blame for the whole Jane confrontation. Also remember how Rebecca died because Kenny didn't want to wait for her to rest? If he would have worried more about being careful than being right, there might have been more survivors. You all claim Kenny does this stuff because he cares, but if you ask me he does it to feed his ego.
And yes, Gabe and Kenny act the same. You are just to bias to see it. Hell people compare Kenny and David being similar and people compare Gabe acting like David, but oh no it crosses the line when you make a Kenny Gabe comparison. I honestly think you are missing the point and are in defense mode. You can't see the counter arguments and make points that are either selective or far fetched. I suggest you look into revising your perspective because you seem confused.
I didn't know about the alcohol but hardly matters since it didn't translate into anything.
This is a prime example of how you shoul… mored do sufficient research before making any serious claims and calling people a hypocrite and secondly it didn't translate into anything because the writing made it so. In a real life situation it could have put her heart in serious shock and cause her to die.
Pointing a gun at a man who is threatening his uncle and having enough restraint not to shoot him?
So what, are we supposed to be proud of him for, "having enough restraint not to shoot him."?
Because he was still unarmed and acting in an aggressive manner towards the man who he believed had caused the death of his wife.
I'd say it's perfectly justified to be angry with Javi in this situation had he opened fired on the people holding Francine captive and if it was truly a serious threat Conrad was making then Tripp or some other perf… [view original content]
I posted this on a thread a while back when someone stated that Kenny didn't care about anyone but himself and i feel this post i made is totally fitting why Kenny is better than whiney Gabe. Not really relevant to your thread but its a big fuck you for your opinion on Kenny:
It's not as if he didn't offer to give a man and a little girl, 2 strangers he just met, a lift in his pick up truck with his family towards where they were headed:
It's not as if he didn't save a man's life at the drugstore after an assumed racist old man knocked him on his ass and left him to die:
It's not as if he didn't ever go out hunting for the group to make sure they all got food:
It's not as if he didn't help kill walkers from attacking a man stuck in a bear trap along with 2 scared teenagers who needed help:
It's not as if he didn't show concern for the determinant man or boy they rescued from the woods when asking his wife:
It's not as if he didn't care showing his reaction when the determinant man or boy died after his wife failed to save him:
It's not as if he didn't want the kids to eat before/instead of himself when food was being handed out:
It's not as if he didn't consider other people's safety by preventing further lives from dying in stopping "the" old man from possibly turning:
It's not as if he didn't risk his life continuing to go on runs into Macon to get supplies for the group.
It's not as if he didn't get an RV working to ensure everyone could leave with him and his family if they had wanted to.
It's not as if he didn't care about the group's safety when he said this in response to Lilly's earlier actions:
It's not as if he didn't fix up a boat for the group and not just himself:
It's not as if he didn't actually say the line:
It's not as if he didn't save Christa's life:
It's not as if he didn't stop Ben from suffering a fate of being eaten alive:
It's not as if he didn't take the blame (for a stolen radio) protecting Clem from being beaten down by a psychopath:
It's not as if he didn't help a pregnant woman deliver her baby:
It's not as if he didn't get a truck working for a bunch of people he didn't get on well with:
It's not as if he didn't show that he was gracious enough to check on a woman he disliked after they just argued in the car after it span out of control:
It's not as if he didn't selflessly insist that the kids take their chance of safety by staying at Wellington:
Yeah Ghosty! He's not the complete asshole you think he is...
He even tried to save all their asses even though it was their fault he lost everything.
Theoretically, it's the Cabin Group's fault Sarita is gone, if you follow the cascade of events. And Kenny still helps the remains of the Cabin Group.
Comments
Kenny's anger issues or not, he was still an idiot to free up a kid who almost got him killed.
At least Kenny moderately pulled his weight, Gabe just sits there and whines.
When it's the case of throwing his own son out to the walkers because he was "bit," and you sided against him, do you expect him to not be pissed about that? The thing you have to remember is that did these things or acted this way not because he was trying to prove something, like Gabe does, it's because he was looking out for his family and trying to protect those he cares about. Him wanting to get a boat is because he thinks it's the safer and better option for his family, and like any husband/father, they are going to be his main priority no matter what, and when he thinks they are in a situation where their lives are put in danger (being at a easily attackable motel with constant bandit raids and little food), then yeah, he's going to get upset. With Larry's case, no one knew if he was going to be okay, he could have been dead for all we know. It's not like Kenny was "Larry's an asshole, first opportunity, let's kill him," you can tell it was something he didn't want to do, but since Larry becoming a walker posed a serious and credible threat, he wanted to ensure that it wouldn't happen, not only to save himself, but everyone else in the room, including Lilly. Could he have waited and handled it better, yes, I will concede, but again, his purpose was everyone's safety, including his family. A family that, later, was killed by Ben, so again, he's going to get pissed not only at him, but at anyone who doesn't let him get his revenge. However, in the case with Ben, he realized that he was wrong and would go on to even attempt to sacrifice himself to help Ben. All of these reactions come from Kenny wanting to protect or do what was best for his family, that was always his drive, the difference with Gabe is that he's doing shit to try and prove that he's a man. Kenny's comes from an area of selflessness, while Gabe's is pretty selfish.
Many of this, again, goes back to his want to protect family (Sarita), those he considers family (Clem), and the group. Yes he can be quite abrasive and quick to judgment in his methods, as proven with Larry in the meatlocker, but in the case with not wanting to fight Carver, he sees it as giving up. In a time when everyone has pretty much given up, Kenny was the only one who was attempting to figure a way out of the situation and get everyone to safety, and seeing everyone just go along with a madman's attempts to imprison them would anger anyone. Not to mention that his anger stems from the fact that it was the cabin group who got him and Sarita in this mess in the first place. And him "whining" over the death of his girlfriend seems pretty justifiable. But again, like with Ben, he acknowledges and apologizes for his fuck up, expressing a genuine sense of remorse over how he acted towards Clem, who he probably looked at as a sort of surrogate daughter. Kenny is a man who, often times, lets his emotions get the best of him (denying Duck was going to turn, Sarita's death), and while this is a constant problem, at least Kenny has the ability to recognize his mistakes, know when he was in the wrong, and own up to it. Gabe does no such thing. He makes stupid decision that can potentially or actually hurt the group (Javi getting stabbed), but he doesn't put himself at fault. And then, because he's pissed he's not getting his way, he rats out Javi killing Conrad (which was to save Gabe), and then acts like Javi punishing him isn't his fault, but Javi's. While both act out of emotion in the heat of the moment, once everything settles down, Kenny is able to see he was in the wrong, but Gabe continues to act like he's the victim.
Gabe whines about how he's getting treated like a kid. On the surface, it may seem like a genuine thing to complain about. However, the reason people do this is because he either keeps making stupid decisions or continues to act like a kid, doing nothing to try and fix it. Act like a kid, you'll get treated like a kid. His whining comes from a selfish perspective of trying to prove something, not so much to the group, but to himself, that he can be a man like his dad. But in his attempts to not screw up, he makes even more screw ups which put himself, and others, in even worse predicaments. He has done nothing to prove his worth, while Kenny has actually shown his worth. Kenny may argue, but he at least gets stuff done (getting the RV working, form the plan to get away from Carver, get to Wellington, etc.) Gabe whines and does nothing.
I know someone else already posted this, but allow me to reiterate. Along with getting Javi stabbed, Gabe poured medical alcohol in Kate's wound, pointed a gun at Conrad instead of trying to calmly settle the dispute (which would have been an actual attempt to step up, not point a gun at someone), puts himself in danger recklessly, and rats Javi out for killing Conrad, losing Tripp and Eleanor's support. Not to mention his plans put more people in peril, but hey, it's okay, because if they work, he'll come out as the hero, effectively proving that he's a man. Kenny, while his plans weren't always thought out fully, wasn't to get him glory or thanks, it was to genuinely help people, even those he does not like. Kenny, for his arguing and defensiveness, is incredibly loyal, but Gabe, even if you are nice to him, will stab you in the back on the Conrad issue.
In the case of Shawn, true, but again, he owns up to it. He knows he screwed up, he knows he could have saved him if he didn't panic, and blames himself for his death. And while I don't entirely defend his actions, you also have to remember that his main concern was for his son, who was also getting attacked and potentially still in danger, and as a father, he's naturally going to pick his son's safety over anyone else. Should he have run and let Shawn die, no, but it's not because of him looking out for himself, but trying to look out for Duck. And while he is angry if you choose not to help kill Larry, never does he blame you for Lilly going crazy or for any of the shit that happens afterwards. And I guess you're forgetting how everyone partakes in stealing from the van, including Lilly.
And he blames himself if, had you gone out to look for Kenny, you tell him to shoot, not Clem (you). And even if you tell him not to shoot Carver, he doesn't get angry with you as a result. What tore the group apart was Luke's death, which is entirely because of Arvo. Kenny wanted to kill him from the start (so another thing he ended up being right about), and had Arvo not run, causing everyone to chase after him, Luke wouldn't have died. Kenny had a plan, get everyone to Wellington, it was everyone else that fought him over that and offered poor alternatives (Mike wants to head west, no real destination, and Jane wants to go back to Howes, which just got run over by a herd). Without Luke there able to balance the situation, Mike tries to steal the truck and food with Arvo and Clem getting shot. Had Jane not pushed Kenny, hide AJ, and force him into a fight, they would have all made it to Wellington, no problem. Did Kenny ever try to smooth things out, no, but the fall of the group is surely not on him because, again, he was trying to get stuff done and get everyone to safety.
Never, the fact that you're using this as an argument baffles me because no one has called him a coward.
You know if you do help kill Larry, Kenny comes out and helps you when Danny points a gun at you, so it's not because he's scared.
He also comes to his rescue, both this and the previous example are impacts of your choices. Kenny screwing you over is because of your choices, Gabe screwing you over happens regardless.
He breaksdown once, and it was a result of Sarita's death. How is mourning cowardly? Sarita was the one who found him, and before Clem and AJ came into his life, she was really his only reason to keep going, so with her gone, he feels alone. He even says it himself, "I can't be alone again." However, while others would have just pulled the trigger, ended it right then and there, Kenny is way too strong to even contemplate suicide. He criticized Katjaa for doing it back in Episode 5, so there's no way he would do the same. So even if he was going to be alone, had there been no reason to keep going, because he's so strong, Kenny would have kept fighting until he couldn't. That doesn't sound cowardly to me.
Ultimately, what it comes down to with Kenny is that, while his methods are not always the best and he lets his emotions get the best of him, his argumentative behavior stems from a selfless desire to help everyone in the group, including the people he may not even like. Despite his flaws, there is a good man deep within that we don't always get to see because of other people getting in the way. Look at how he acts when it's just him and Clem, that's who Kenny was, is, and always will be. But with Gabe, while on the surface it all may seem well and good, it's more of a mission to try and prove to himself that he can step up, but doesn't actually do anything to prove it, and when he does, he screws up, doesn't learn from it, and blames others for not treating him like a man. Actions speak louder than words, Kenny's actions were for the better of the group, and most times, he turned out to be right, but Gabe expects his words to be able to be enough, his actions prove otherwise. We got to see, experience, and even feel why Kenny gets angry, the loss of his family, everything he holds he dear, it gives his words and action proper motivation and reasoning, and we have a better understanding of them as a result. Gabe's character does not have that luxury.
This thread is delightful.
I have an other opinion as others so let me prove how absolutely wrong and hypocritical all of you are with a bunch of arguments took out of the context.
Those arguments can be easily used the other way to prove you are hypocritical for liking Gabe and hating on Kenny.
Top quality, keep it up buddy.
Exactly. Kenny made mistakes (like everyone does, no one is perfect), but he also had A LOT of moments where he was the shining light. Gabe has none of these positive moments. He is literally an always complaining millstone around everyone's neck.
You know what I truly find fascinating about Kenny?
How even in death, the guy somehow still gets people comparing him to other characters. The guy's like the debate king.
Seriously, even when his name is mentioned, it's like this entire place goes:
This is why i love Kenny as a character. Nearly every action he makes can either be interpreted as well intentioned or absolutely monstrous with no foresight.
It's brilliant writing if you ask me.
May the God's protection be upon you, all heretics, when Kenny's Crusaders arrive to defend their faith in the Almighty from blasphemy
Seriously! He had to be the most polarizing dude in this entire franchise!
It's kind of sad to admit, but I'm not so sure they're ever gonna create another character that can match him in that way. And that's coming from a guy who was Pro-Jane for three years.
This GIF is an absolute perfection.
Good point, Kenny as I can recap he is the reason at time too mess up even tho he's trying toodefend his love one like back at (season 1) Kattcha and Duck and in season 2 Serita , it comes too show when your trying to defend your love ones they'll always die at the end.
(However) he did redeem himself in (season 3) by giving Clementine too escape before the walkers (devoured) him.
People just hate whiny children lol
(Kenny the Messiah) , has come to deliver Javi and Clementine from (the new frontier and the herd of walkers) along with Jesus, glen , Abraham and Hershel green.
Eh, I suppose. Poor guy's heart was in the right place--his brain, on the otherhand, dipped into "Wtf?" territory.
I really don't understand why everyone liked Kenny so much.
He was very selfish in season 1.
Larry even wasn't dead. When Lee tried to save Larry, we saw Larry starting to breath, and Kenny just killed him. That was very fucked up. Lee could have saved Larry. This was the beginning of a grieving Lilly to get crazy.
In season 2 Kenny was good to Clem because she was all he had. The family man was very protective to kids but an asshole in groups.
Arvo was a good kid.
He tried to calm down the Russians, but the language was a problem. The Russians were supposed to let them go, but when the walker Rebecca was shot, everyone started to shoot each other.
How exactly? He saved the group by fixing the RV. Jane was the selfish one.
That could have been Larry about to become a walker, you know. Kenny was just protecting everyone from walker Larry. They didn't have weapons to defend themselves.
How? He isn't the one who joined the group. He isn't the reason Carver came after the cabin group. It's actually their fault for destroying Kenny's new life.
Kenny should have wait until he really died.
And he didn't...yet.
Like Lee several times passed out after he was bitten and Kenny didn't kill Lee.
But I understand being locked in the meatlocker was a very scary situation with a man who just passed out.
Still Kenny was rude and selfish many times.
Especially when peoples not always agreed with him he would have just left them to the walkers. He did with Lilly and Lee.
Fixing the rv was for his families sake, not the others.
I disagree with the entire post. You can't just call me a hypocrite since I don't like gabe, but I liked Kenny and nick lol. I want Gabe gone because it looks like telltale is trying to ship him with Clem, the character I molded for two seasons, regardless of what I think about it. That just doesn't sit right with me at all. On top of that, I just don't really feel anything for him, and so I couldn't care less if he died. As a matter of fact, I hope he dies because then it lessens the chances that Javier or clementine or Conrad or Tripp/Ava will die, which are characters I actually like. Anyone in the Garcia family could die in episode 5, and I probably wouldn't be very effected at all unless it's javi.
What if Larry got up fast and Kenny missed?
That's not enough. It's not true.
He offered Lee to come along as he has "more than earned it" (determinately). So he was fixing this RV for basically everyone (except Lilly).
Very well explained. I agree.
Larry was fucking breathing when Lee tried to save him.
So just killing him was a bad decision.
And he asked Lee to kill Ben who was just a stupid kid who never meant to hurt someone.
I know Kenny has finally a good heart but he always made rashed decision caused by anger or fears.
Except Lilly. After what she did for the group he was being an asshole.
He wanted to leave her for the walkers and she saved his selfish ass when the bandits attacked them.
And he would have left Lee for the walkers too determinantly when Lee shot the girl.
Kenny really had a bad attitude some times.
Not on my playthrough he didn't. I shot the girl and he still helped my Lee out. So you must've determinately argued that his son is bit and should be thrown out + didn't help kill Larry, and possibly tried to save Shawn over Duck.
But that is the point: Kenny is only DETERMINATELY a dick to Lee, if Lee is siding against him all the time, and who wouldn't be pissed then? Gabe is a prick to Javi regardless of your choices/is being a brat regardless.
What a way to cause an argument. Thanks for being a total fuckwit for calling people hypocrites.
Except that your vision of Kenny's whining isn't the same as Gabe at all. Kenny spoke his mind and said exactly how he felt during all those times you mentioned. Shitty in some cases you may think so but totally understandable in a lot of cases and a lot of the time in my opinion he was right and I don't blame him for his treatment of a man who determinantely was shitty to him and his family. We all have opinions and there was just no need to say what you did.
Gabe is just badly written, simple as, and he is "whiney" in a completely different way
But people don't "all" prefer Jane over him. Very 50/50
It wasn't confirmed he was actually breathing, you can't be sure.
So it was a bad decision to protect the group from walker Larry.
You think Kenny's reaction to Ben's decision wasn't realistic?
He didn't always.
THIS! THIS POST!
Thank you for putting him/her in their place
Its true! And people won't shut up about him, especially the haters
I don't care, he still ambushed Clem's group.
No, they were supposed to rob Clem's group.
Arvo may have been a good kid, but Clem's group had to suffer due to his fuck up (trying to hide the medicine from his group, probably because he wanted to get away with his sister). So he got an excuse by blaming Clem's group to get his ass out of the line.
I didn't steal the medicine, but he still said we robbed him. It was an easy excuse to not get in trouble.
Oh yes it was totally his fault that the cabin group are gone (sarcasm). It's not like they turned up out of the blue at a decent home (the ski lodge) he was staying at with Sarita and ended up being taken hostage because of them right? And ohhh yes he was to blame for Alvin's howe's death too right? Or both of Nick's deaths? And Pete's? Carlos and Sarah's deaths? And he caused Rebecca and Luke's deaths too did he?
Funny how all those characters deaths had nothing to do with Kenny yet as always a typical hater has to push the blame onto him lol. It really makes me chuckle
He even tried to save all their asses even though it was their fault he lost everything.
Theoretically, it's the Cabin Group's fault Sarita is gone, if you follow the cascade of events. And Kenny still helps the remains of the Cabin Group.
Well, like I said, the alcohol incident did not lead to anything so it was pointless bringing it up. Besides, Gabe's intent wasn't to hurt Kate. He didn't do it out of impulse either. Sorry for not looking into benign points.
As for Conrad, you are doing some serious reaching here. I don't care who it is and if they are unarmed. If anyone is threatening my family you bet your ass I would pull a gun on them. You can't assume anyone would step in because things happen in an instance. And yes, he didn't shoot. He has more self control than impulsive Kenny who would just bash a guys head in before finding out if he is truly gone. Beside, it wasn't Javi's fault at all. Even if he surrenders Conrad still blames you. He was irrational there is no defending him here.
Yes, Kenny was partially responsible for the destruction of the group. It was Kenny who shot Carver and got Alvin killed (Walt's death is also Kenny's fault). I still believe the Cabin group was better off waiting for the herd to pass to even attempt an escape. But as Mike told Kenny "you don't plan to improvise". His impatience cost people their lives. He is also partly to blame for getting Reggie in trouble. He just had to egg Clementine on to find a way out instead of waiting and planning. Luke died because Kenny was for whatever reason obsessed with torturing Arvo. Kenny is the reason Mike and Bonnie defected and the reason Jane felt the need to expose him. You can not deny any of this.
Yes, Kenny made Lee look like an asshole. "We had to let a girl get eaten to survive" and everyone else disapproves. If you do shoot the girl Kenny says "Lee shot a girl in the streets" to which everyone is shocked. Just like Gabe it would have been best for him to keep his mouth shut instead of causing drama.
I like how you only mentioned Lily v Kenny and not Kenny v Luke or Kenny and the Cabin group and Mike. He is to blame for Mike and Bonnie's defection. He is to blame for the whole Jane confrontation. Also remember how Rebecca died because Kenny didn't want to wait for her to rest? If he would have worried more about being careful than being right, there might have been more survivors. You all claim Kenny does this stuff because he cares, but if you ask me he does it to feed his ego.
And yes, Gabe and Kenny act the same. You are just to bias to see it. Hell people compare Kenny and David being similar and people compare Gabe acting like David, but oh no it crosses the line when you make a Kenny Gabe comparison. I honestly think you are missing the point and are in defense mode. You can't see the counter arguments and make points that are either selective or far fetched. I suggest you look into revising your perspective because you seem confused.
I posted this on a thread a while back when someone stated that Kenny didn't care about anyone but himself and i feel this post i made is totally fitting why Kenny is better than whiney Gabe. Not really relevant to your thread but its a big fuck you for your opinion on Kenny:
Yeah Ghosty! He's not the complete asshole you think he is...
Exactly! And people like GhostToast are just so blinded by hate to see this