Try to understand the Javi-Kate relationship please...
I'm making this topic simply because people seem to be expressing that "I dont like Kate, she keeps advancing on me" and "the writers keep pushing the Kate-Javier relationship when I dont want any part of it."
The fact of the matter is, these 2 have been relying SOLELY on eachother for YEARS. While perhaps Javier might not have any romantic feelings for Kate in your opinion, they still now have an almost inseparable bond, effectively counting on eachother for everything, caring for what is effectively their children in terms of responsibility. Even if you dont have romantic feelings for Kate, you should at least realize that Javier should feel regretful for Kate's feelings towards him. This is somebody you count on for EVERYTHING, for helping procure food, take care of your kids, stand guard, drive the car while you sleep, EVERYTHING. This is someone you CANT lose. This has been your other half for years and the entire duration of this phase of your life.
Lastly, in terms of Kate's feelings, you can't control her feelings, you still CAN control yours.
Comments
Well if people don't like the relationship, they shouldn't choose to go through with it.
Well you can't even decide if you trust Ava or not she will help you anyway and noone cries about that... So tell me why is it that bad if the writer forced the relationship Javi-Kate... Its the same as you have to stick around with Gabe and Javi takes him as family and you can't tell that nah I won't take care of Gabe... So wtf is it that bad if TT simply made Javi-Kate relationship solid unchangeable
Well it's not forced, you have a choice. And Ava helps you because she knows you want to rescue David and then escape/fight the new frontier. And what do you mean by "solid unchangeable"? It is a choice of whether or not you want to be in a relationship with her so I don't see your point of saying you are forced into a relationship with her.
You can decide whether or not you trust Ava through Clementine's interactions. ( Whether or not she's cold to her during their encounters and how she behaves towards David. ) You are unable to alter whether or not Ava assists you as Javier because she is not doing any of this because of Javier. She will help you regardless because this is what David asks of her. Both Javier and Ava behave toward one another in a certain way because of their relationship with David rather than each other.
I understand what your thought is - Why would the writers simply making the relationship between Javier and Kate canon be bad? Why does this notion receive so much rejection? The simplest answer would be because we control Javier.
You can't pick your family, so it doesn't break the immersion that you take care of Gabe. It's true that for some of us he's the Anikan Skywalker from the prequels that hates sand - but at the end of the day he's blood, and far too much Garcia blood has spilled since the outbreak started. We, as Javier, in some ways choose fame over family until we lost the fame. We miss our father's last moments. We're not with our mother in her last moments. We lose Hector. It's these moments that cement in us that we're a mirror of David. We didn't stick around, and in doing so lost our family. Taking care of Kate, Gabe, and Mariana isn't about being the man that we are, maybe not even the man we want to be, but certainly the man we regret not being so that we had that time with our family.
Kate needed to be a choice because we're controlling Javier when the relationship is presented, and the very nature of their relationship would be met with a very emotionally driven divide in the player base. Since it's first introduced prior to the outbreak and our brother's presumed death - it's an affair with our brother's wife. I don't care what kind of chemistry I might have with my sister's husband, if he suggested we hook up during their marriage, or after I'd turn him down in a heartbeat.
If it were true that someone you relied solely upon for years for your very survival had no other natural relationship than romantic - then everyone in the military would be in romantic relationships when they returned. There are so many bonds we can form as humans that don't require nor desire anything more than mutual respect, loyalty, and admiration.
No, because Kate's a slut, and she should be ashamed of herself.
Mby you did not understand what I wanted to say... I pretty support Kate-Javi relationship and I'm just saying that it could have been also forced and we wouln't have a choice to decide whether Javi likes Kate or not. It could have been forced in my min and whe should not have been able to defide whether they like themselves or not. I can't really explain what I wanted to say...
But in a short way: I don't understand people that started hating the love between them. That forced TT to give us the choice to share feeling/not share. So I'm just saying that why don't they give us a chance to simply Care of gabe/Leave him on the road. Cause the first three season their relationship seemed to be forced. Just like all the other Javis relationships so why was this one between Kate and Javi hated so much I don't understand.
Mm, no. People have every right to dislike the relationship and our opinions are just as valid. Don't try to silence us.
No. She is such a selfish slut. She wanted to flee with Javier out of Richmond, leaving her husband behind instead of just telling him she doesn't want to be him anymore which makes David blame Javi for this.
I don't want another fucking Bruce Wayne, Selina and Harvey situation.
I don't think she is. She did risk her life just to get Mari's body. And when she was afraid she would have died she did tell Javier to take care of Gabe.
If your talking about the time the "Stick with David's plan" and the "Leave with Kate" option was given, the reason Kate wanted to leave was not because of David but because she feared that Richmond was going to become a warzone. If you do leave with Kate, David gets mad that you didn't follow his orders because he believed that keeping her at the house was safe for being in Richmond, so he wasn't mad about Kate and Javier being together because he didn't know about that. Otherwise I wouldn't say she didn't want to tell David that she doesn't love him anymore. And besides if you do accept the relationship, she will tell David the truth about her and Javier. Yes most likely David will get angry when he finds out the truth if you choose to accept the relationship, but its better then not telling him at all. I understand why Kate wouldn't want to be with David. I mean do you really think Kate can handle David and his temper. Hell David wasn't even thinking straight when he went after Joan/Clint and asking Gabe to cover him.
Haha well I don't think it will go down like that but if it did I would find it pretty funny (this is just my opinion). Kate and Javier didn't mind being together because they thought David was dead. But now that he's alive it just made things more difficult for them. But before Kate and Javier do anything like with what Bruce and Selina did, they would tell David how they feel. Also I would blame Selina considering that she was pretending to be Harvey's girlfriend. And considering how Harvey was drugged it only made things worse. But I find that the people who had Bruce stay with Selina are some of the same people who didn't want that same thing to happen with Javier and Kate (which I understand because we know how Bruce and Selina like each other in the comics).
That is my point of view... Thanks for explaining it ... I am happy that someone sees thing like me
But was it a good idea to risk getting shot for a dead body?
Well she did treat Mari as her own daughter so I'm sure she's not the only parent who would risk getting shot for their dead child's body.
Maybe but I think dying while trying to recover a dead body is one of the most ridiculous deaths anyone could have. Just saying.
Yeah it probably wasn't the best idea.
It's weird that it takes four years of them travelling together for Kate to start making advances towards Javi. She clearly had an interest in him even before the apocalypse started. Shouldn't the tension between them have at least been addressed by now? For all she knew David was dead, and she wasn't even happy with the marriage. It takes David coming back into their lives for her to finally make a move? What?
Fuck no
This is one of the major issues I had with the time-skip/flashback sequences used in ANF. Kate starts making advances toward Javier during the kitchen flashback where David's army mug is broken. This appears to be the moment she's feeling out Javier's mindset toward it as well as voicing a fantasy of running off and seeing the world (with him). Logic would dictate that between that moment and four years, that would be the time that some of this is spoken of, and I think these moments are where TellTale loses a lot of its praise for what could've been a great season.
Such a great and well thought out contribution to the discussion.
Honestly, I stopped trying after she wanted to run away with Javier after he lived with them for a short while, because she didn't realize marrying a military man with kids would bring some pretty big responsibilities she apparently wasn't actually ready to be saddled down with, so let's run away to Sweden!
The ridiculousness of them playing will they/won't they for 4 years just so we'd have a love story in the actual game aside, nah. She ruined things way back when she thought I'd help her ditch her family to play happy fun times. 4 years passing by doesn't make her proposal any less dirty, that's like coming home and finding a "friend" trying to borrow your TV after getting in through the back window. Don't call me later and ask if we're cool yet, that's just no, man.
It definitely wasn't a good idea, but I think in the moment Kate rejected the idea that Mariana was dead. She was compelled to reach her to see if there were literally anything she could do to help her. The mind is a strange thing when someone you care for is harmed, and it's these moments of desperation that can lead to ultimately foolish behavior.
All right, theres 2 points here I wasnt expecting that I disagree with.
The kitchen flashback. I honestly dont think she was really hitting on Javier in that scene. She really just seemed depressed about her husband being an asshole and having kids that werent hers, while never having been able to travel the world like she had always wanted to. Javier is David's brother and probably seemed like a safe outlet imo.
I dont think they were "waiting" 4 years. This might sound like a load of excuses, but there were numerous factors that forced Kate to admit she was in love with Javier.
a. She obviously nearly died and realized she couldnt wait anymore.
b. The family dynamic they had with the kids, the fact that they probably would have been upset for Kate "giving up" on David regardless of long it had been. Additionally, it would probably be awkward for them to start a relationship with the kids around in the first place so they were just maintaining the status quo.
c. Survival comes before romance, this is again, maintaining the status quo, they were together, they were surviving, that was enough for them at the time.
d. Marianna died, this really ties in with Kate nearly dying, the fact that none of them are safe and they have no time to waste.
e. Rejection, this one seems rather obvious, but when you CANNOT risk a no because it will basically destroy the life you have with the man youre currently stuck in a minivan with, it might not seem worth the risk
Too be honest, the Javier/Kate relationship I'm 50/50 on this one. For expale : Kate has no romantic feeling for David, do to the fact that he's always on top of her and (screaming)
Remember : that Army glass cup he had, and she broke it and overacted about it instead of saying that if she's alright.
Another reason is that Kate wants not that much responsibly for Gabe because he's always backing up his dad. I can understand her motive but for her too cheat on her husband is lack of (morals) even before the apocalypse She should have told him and say "I don't want to be with!" Now, with Javier he's carrying he's been with Kate. And the kids for 4 years in the apocalypse and has watched over them ever since.
Javier was responsible for their safety.
I can see where you're coming from in regards to the kitchen flashback. The implications are subtle, and not everyone might see it the same way. She does say she's just kidding around about the ' Take me with you ' line when she speaks with Javier, but I do still think that's the moment she was feeling out how he'd react to it. When her hand is injured, Javier puts a paper towel on it. He pulls his hand away when David asks what was that noise. Kate however, takes his hand and puts it back onto hers.
As for the second point, while you might be right, I believe this would've been better demonstrated by TellTale if we'd had a chance to play those years. I think that this is a real disservice to Kate ( as well as Mariana and Gabe ) as it doesn't allow the player the opportunity to be as invested in these characters as they could be. I wish the writers had gone a different direction with that opportunity as I think we'd have a different view of the game and the characters in it.
I think I need to make this clear and help people realize, both Kate and David are screw ups. Neither are really trying hard to keep their relationship together, they use some excuse to separate from the other. Kate runs away with Javier and David wants to run away from all his responsibilities. I don't care what happens to both of them really, but it seems the only way to keep Gabe (one of your kids as the OP would say) is to side with David.
However for me I didn't care for Gabe or Kate. I didn't care when whatever her name (Marianna I think?) died. I mean even David didn't give much of a fuck. Did Kate give a fuck? Nope hardly any. So any care I had for them never existed. I wanted to ditch David the first time he punched Javier. And Kate was just a incestuous slut. Conrad was a whiny cunt that deserved to die. Heck I don't hate Badger anymore than I hate the others, I just have no feelings for any of these characters. Beating on Badger wasn't as satisfying as crowbaring Carver, it just wasn't as satisfying.
Overall New Frontier is turning out to be really boring.
I think a lot of romance would be put on the back-burner in an apocalypse. You'd have to explain it to the kids, one of you might end up dying, she's still your sister-in-law, etc. Kate definitely had a crush on Javi pre-zombies, but getting out of a shitty (and hinted to be abusive) marriage and having to deal with zombies probably made her reevaluate her views, and whether she actually had feelings for Javi or if she was putting him on a pedestal next to her ass of a husband.
If she figured out early on she actually liked Javi, I think she'd take her time trying to figure out whether it was a smart decision.
If she didn't figure out early on, seeing her husband again might've made her see how much she loved being and travelling with Javi.