And that is why they are choices in the first place. To give us the opportunity to pick and choose how our story will unfold, no matter how we disagree with them. Some are right and some are wrong. That is the point of a debate.
Lilly had tried cpr a reasonable amount of time before Kenny salt licked him. I disagree with Kenny doing it right in Lilly's face but with the St. John's nearby I was happy to have one less potential threat to deal with.
Any thread where Kenny or Jane are mentioned causes arguments to an extent but particular scenes like the meat locker or the Kenny/Jane fight are 2 of the most heated discussions among fans
I didn't help Kenny because I wanted to get on Lilly's good side so I could grow on her, which I regret. Now, every time I replay, I will do whatever I can to make Lilly's life miserable after what she did in ep 3.
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it's not the "right" choice. Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all). Which apparently, Lee seems to think the same way, because he can even say it himself (to Kenny determinately): "You murdered Larry." It was a rash action, that regardless of intent, came with severe consequences, as best said by Carlos in Season Two of The Walking Dead.
Now I have said this before and will say it again...Yeah sure...Larry was never going to recover. However Kenny took Lilly's chance to accept his death away from her by crushing Larry's skull. There were far better ways to handle the Larry situation that could have ended without Lilly becoming unhinged. Kenny's failure was not in crushing Larry's skull..but in his rush to do so without regards to grieving.
It is funny though when Duck is bitten, Kenny is against even talking about having a plan in place to deal with the Duck problem. It was hypocritical. It was...so human. And it is part of why season 1 was a triumph because it got what TWD is about. TWD is about humans being human in the face of the apocalypse. Realistically there is never going to be a happy ending to the walker problem unless you live in the arctic. Just like Rick Grimes said...We are the Walking Dead. And it is how we face the end that matters.
I preferred it when Kenny died to help Ben...it completed an Arc for Kenny...and is a better end than him getting shot by Clem or killed in a car crash.
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it… more's not the "right" choice. Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all). Which apparently, Lee seems to think the same way, because he can even say it himself (to Kenny determinately): "You murdered Larry." It was a rash action, that regardless of intent, came with severe consequences, as best said by Carlos in Season Two of The Walking Dead.
Season 1 logic: let's go against clementine on everything, I'm talking kill Larry, leave her at the house, drop ben, steal from the car yeeerp.
A new frontier logic: okay, let's side with clem on everything, I'm gonna lie to cover her murderous ass, kill a depressed doctor who isn't in the right mind, open fire on an entire group risking the death of an innocent woman and let's also shoot a guy in the head who just lost everything he cared about aside from Tripp and wanted payback for his girlfriend's death.
I brought this up seeing as people always do what clem says in season 3 but in season 1 nobody gave 2 dicks, but they say they care about clem less now. Just kinda strange.
lmao what? I'm pretty sure the whole goal of Season 1 is to give "two dicks" about Clem. And I haven't ever seen everyone purposely going against Clem. Also, if they did go against Clem, it's because she is still a naive kid. She's changed since Season One because she's gotten older, thus, we feel a lot more attached to her and she's making a lot more realistic and mature judgements. Season One Clem wanted to look for her parents in Savannah, despite the fact that it was obvious that they were dead. ANF Clem wouldn't do that. So seeing as she has changed, people will now agree with her more, and agree with her on most stuff.
Season 1 logic: let's go against clementine on everything, I'm talking kill Larry, leave her at the house, drop ben, steal from the car yeee… morerp.
A new frontier logic: okay, let's side with clem on everything, I'm gonna lie to cover her murderous ass, kill a depressed doctor who isn't in the right mind, open fire on an entire group risking the death of an innocent woman and let's also shoot a guy in the head who just lost everything he cared about aside from Tripp and wanted payback for his girlfriend's death.
I brought this up seeing as people always do what clem says in season 3 but in season 1 nobody gave 2 dicks, but they say they care about clem less now. Just kinda strange.
Just admit that nobody listened to clem in season 1 despite every time you had to side with her was for the greater God and in season 3 everyone is all over her all of a sudden when she makes horrible decisions and somehow accidentally manages to shoot someone despite having 4 years of experience with guns.
let's go against clementine on everything
lmao what? I'm pretty sure the whole goal of Season 1 is to give "two dicks" about Clem. A… morend I haven't ever seen everyone purposely going against Clem. Also, if they did go against Clem, it's because she is still a naive kid. She's changed since Season One because she's gotten older, thus, we feel a lot more attached to her and she's making a lot more realistic and mature judgements. Season One Clem wanted to look for her parents in Savannah, despite the fact that it was obvious that they were dead. ANF Clem wouldn't do that. So seeing as she has changed, people will now agree with her more, and agree with her on most stuff.
Agreed! Lilly becoming unhinged after Larry's death is directly influenced by Kenny's previous actions. Had he never done what he did, or at least in the way that he did it, we could have seen a totally different Lilly. As for Larry's recovery, it's not my place to say exactly what would have happened otherwise. However, I have heard stories of miraculous events unfolding, even when the odds were against the people involved. Larry, being in a precarious position, is no worse for wear than a patient at a hospital, who being at the brink of death, is fully healed of cancer, in my honest opinion. Besides, if Kenny can escape death unscathed while being trapped in an alleyway, with the sewer being one of his only viable options (with hardly any time to uncover the manhole cover), then anything is possible at this point. Although, Kenny is indeed hypocritical, being so ready to smash Larry's head in with a salt lick, but hesitant to throw Duck out to the walkers, or likewise smashing his head in.
Well said.
Now I have said this before and will say it again...Yeah sure...Larry was never going to recover. However Kenny took Lilly's … morechance to accept his death away from her by crushing Larry's skull. There were far better ways to handle the Larry situation that could have ended without Lilly becoming unhinged. Kenny's failure was not in crushing Larry's skull..but in his rush to do so without regards to grieving.
It is funny though when Duck is bitten, Kenny is against even talking about having a plan in place to deal with the Duck problem. It was hypocritical. It was...so human. And it is part of why season 1 was a triumph because it got what TWD is about. TWD is about humans being human in the face of the apocalypse. Realistically there is never going to be a happy ending to the walker problem unless you live in the arctic. Just like Rick Grimes said...We are the Walking Dead. And it is how we face the end that matters.
… [view original content]
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it's not the "right" choice.
Um i suppose when David/Travis turned at the motor inn doesn't count then? Because the fact is, in TWD universe when someone dies they turn, Larry would have turned in minutes if he could not have been revived and even if he had survived he would have died shortly later anyway due to no immediate medical care for him so how is it not a right choice? It may not be moral to you but they would have all died if Larry hadn't been dealt with one way or another. There is no right or wrong when it comes to survival. It's just imperative.
Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all).
Ugh! It's lines like "Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood" that really piss me off due to how naive that view is. How the hell was what Kenny did done in cold blood???? Do you really honestly think this? Do you think he did it for enjoyment? For a past dispute with Larry? Or to deliberately make Lilly suffer? Fuck no! He didn't like or want to do what he did! He did it because:
He was terrified. Imagine yourself in that situation instead of sat behind the computer. Anyone would be shitting bricks if someone could turn into a monster and try to kill you.
He did what he felt was necessary to keep himself and everyone else safe from the potential threat.
He knew that even if Larry could be revived, he still wouldn't survive. It's common sense knowing this that a heart attack survivor needs immediate help if revived as i said above earlier.
So please, cold blood is so wrong to be referenced here.
Which apparently, Lee seems to think the same way, because he can even say it himself (to Kenny determinately): "You murdered Larry." It was a rash action, that regardless of intent, came with severe consequences, as best said by Carlos in Season Two of The Walking Dead.
And that is why Kenny gets angry with Lee if the player tries to save Larry. Not because Lee wanted to save him but because Kenny felt Lee put him and everyone else in further danger by doing so and can you blame him? If my family was being held hostage, i would want to make sure i escape to save them but how can i do that if someone i consider a friend (a guy i saved from Larry who knocked him on his ass an episode prior btw) goes and puts you at risk and not supporting you in a serious moment?
There are always 2 sides to a coin, i wish other people would consider that instead of looking at a scene like this in one line.
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it… more's not the "right" choice. Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all). Which apparently, Lee seems to think the same way, because he can even say it himself (to Kenny determinately): "You murdered Larry." It was a rash action, that regardless of intent, came with severe consequences, as best said by Carlos in Season Two of The Walking Dead.
Now I have said this before and will say it again...Yeah sure...Larry was never going to recover. However Kenny took Lilly's chance to accept his death away from her by crushing Larry's skull.
Oh yes because someone's feelings is more important than making sure that not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 people were kept safe in a moment of danger.
There were far better ways to handle the Larry situation that could have ended without Lilly becoming unhinged.
Oh really? Please share those ways? Though i imagine you haven't considered that they had no time whatsoever to decide what to do? Holding a salt lick above Larry, giving Lilly and determinant Lee chance to revive him? Yeahhh because anyone could hold an extremely heavy salt lick in the air that long! Yeah right! What other "better" ways were there to handle the situation kennyshoulda? Hold Larry down before/as he turns whilst Lee chest compresses? Except by doing that Lilly would definitely not realistically be able to hold her dad down when he turns. Even if Lee was the one holding him down and Lilly chest compresses, Lee wouldn't be able to hold him down due to his size. So then what? You get Kenny AND Lilly or Lee to hold him down? So you do that and then say Larry turns, who
Kills him? Lilly? Clementine? Oh yes i sure can see that happening.
Sorry i just have to laugh that you honestly say if you were in that meat locker in real life that you would even risk trying to save him knowing the danger that Larry would bring to yourself and everyone else. I have said this several times in this and other threads now about the comparison between this scene and the Do Not Disturb episode of Fear The Walking Dead of how excellent it is showing how i know i made the sensible decision knowing that Lilly/Lee could have been bitten trying to revive Larry like the bride was in that FTWD episode.
Kenny's failure was not in crushing Larry's skull..but in his rush to do so without regards to grieving.
As i said in the first reply to this post, you are seriously saying that feelings are more important here than you and your friends surviving yes? Sure she would grieve and it was horrible for her and i myself felt very sorry it happened but seriously sweetheart how is someone's feelings more important than making sure everyone else is safe? Please tell me?
It is funny though when Duck is bitten, Kenny is against even talking about having a plan in place to deal with the Duck problem. It was hypocritical. It was...so human.
It is also funny that you fail to mention that both situations were completely different. Duck was bitten, Larry was not. Larry became an immediate threat, had he died, he would turn and kill and the group were locked in a meat locker. With Duck, he had to full on die before being a threat, the group knew this and this time they weren't trapped and they had time to deal with him. Plus dealing with a small boy is a lot easier than dealing with a large man. They had more people to restrain him too.
As for Kenny refusing to talk about Duck or how to deal with him, well what do you expect? It was his son. Larry wasn't. You can say it was hypocritical but anyone else would have been the same way. You would be able to kill a random person easier than someone you know or care about. So why criticise him for being hypocritical on this occasion? I already explained the reasons above as to why the Larry and Duck situation was different. If Duck had died and would turn any moment similar to Larry, you know Kenny wouldn't do anything but someone else would have to obviously.
I preferred it when Kenny died to help Ben...it completed an Arc for Kenny...and is a better end than him getting shot by Clem or killed in a car crash.
Nah the best send off was Kenny knowing he got the kids he fought so hard to protect to Wellington. Nothing will beat that end for me. The one decent thing Telltale got right in S2 in my opinion.
Well said.
Now I have said this before and will say it again...Yeah sure...Larry was never going to recover. However Kenny took Lilly's … morechance to accept his death away from her by crushing Larry's skull. There were far better ways to handle the Larry situation that could have ended without Lilly becoming unhinged. Kenny's failure was not in crushing Larry's skull..but in his rush to do so without regards to grieving.
It is funny though when Duck is bitten, Kenny is against even talking about having a plan in place to deal with the Duck problem. It was hypocritical. It was...so human. And it is part of why season 1 was a triumph because it got what TWD is about. TWD is about humans being human in the face of the apocalypse. Realistically there is never going to be a happy ending to the walker problem unless you live in the arctic. Just like Rick Grimes said...We are the Walking Dead. And it is how we face the end that matters.
… [view original content]
Lilly becoming unhinged after Larry's death is directly influenced by Kenny's previous actions. Had he never done what he did, or at least in the way that he did it, we could have seen a totally different Lilly.
Completely disagree and i explained my reasons earlier. Here they are:
Lilly knew what she was doing when she shot Carley and tried to shoot Ben. Lilly was paranoid way before Larry died, at the drugstore when first meeting, worrying about staying on the st john's farm (she was right though!) but nonetheless she had a paranoid personality before this. When supplies went missing she said she was a mess (sad, grief etc) but she wasn't stupid. Her words, she wasn't insane at all through any of it. She lost her temper from Carley's back talk and tried to shoot Ben for not believing him. Simple as that. It's so easy for certain people to blame Kenny because of how they feel about him yet they seem to ignore the fact that Duck wouldn't have been bitten and Carley/Doug wouldn't have died at all if they had listened to Kenny and took off in the RV days earlier to get away from bandits. Ben only slowed the process but he caused Lilly to order then"witchhunt". You can even blame Lee if you want but i'm sorry i will not ever accept the bullshit excuse people use for Lilly's actions.
As for Larry's recovery, it's not my place to say exactly what would have happened otherwise. However, I have heard stories of miraculous events unfolding, even when the odds were against the people involved. Larry, being in a precarious position, is no worse for wear than a patient at a hospital, who being at the brink of death, is fully healed of cancer, in my honest opinion.
Sorry but no. Seeing as i have witnessed in real life first hand someone being revived from a heart attack, what you are saying is not the case at all. People need immediate help when being revived, if they don't they will die.
Although, Kenny is indeed hypocritical, being so ready to smash Larry's head in with a salt lick, but hesitant to throw Duck out to the walkers, or likewise smashing his head in.
And i'll say to you what i did to kennyshoulda:
As for Kenny refusing to talk about Duck or how to deal with him, well what do you expect? It was his son. Larry wasn't. You can say it was hypocritical but anyone else would have been the same way. You would be able to kill a random person easier than someone you know or care about. So why criticise him for being hypocritical on this occasion? I already explained the reasons above as to why the Larry and Duck situation was different. If Duck had died and would turn any moment similar to Larry, you know Kenny wouldn't do anything but someone else would have to obviously.
Agreed! Lilly becoming unhinged after Larry's death is directly influenced by Kenny's previous actions. Had he never done what he did, or at… more least in the way that he did it, we could have seen a totally different Lilly. As for Larry's recovery, it's not my place to say exactly what would have happened otherwise. However, I have heard stories of miraculous events unfolding, even when the odds were against the people involved. Larry, being in a precarious position, is no worse for wear than a patient at a hospital, who being at the brink of death, is fully healed of cancer, in my honest opinion. Besides, if Kenny can escape death unscathed while being trapped in an alleyway, with the sewer being one of his only viable options (with hardly any time to uncover the manhole cover), then anything is possible at this point. Although, Kenny is indeed hypocritical, being so ready to smash Larry's head in with a salt lick, but hesitant to throw Duck out to the walkers, or likewise smashing his head in.
Bringing him back was pandering..it is the lowest form of entertainment because it requires so little effort. He should have stayed dead.
No one was in immediate danger in the meat locker. The Duck and Larry situations were not different.
As for Kenny refusing to talk about Duck or how to deal with him, well what do you expect? It was his son. Larry wasn't. You can say it was hypocritical but anyone else would have been the same way. You would be able to kill a random person easier than someone you know or care about. So why criticise him for being hypocritical on this occasion? I already explained the reasons above as to why the Larry and Duck situation was different. If Duck had died and would turn any moment similar to Larry, you know Kenny wouldn't do anything but someone else would have to obviously.
What do I expect? For you to look at it from Lilly's pov. Would you be ok with someone killing your father or mother before you are ready to say goodbye?
Plus it Kenny would look better if it were not for the fact he waited a whole 24 seconds to say we gotta kill him.
Now I have said this before and will say it again...Yeah sure...Larry was never going to recover. However Kenny took Lilly's chance to accep… moret his death away from her by crushing Larry's skull.
Oh yes because someone's feelings is more important than making sure that not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 people were kept safe in a moment of danger.
There were far better ways to handle the Larry situation that could have ended without Lilly becoming unhinged.
Oh really? Please share those ways? Though i imagine you haven't considered that they had no time whatsoever to decide what to do? Holding a salt lick above Larry, giving Lilly and determinant Lee chance to revive him? Yeahhh because anyone could hold an extremely heavy salt lick in the air that long! Yeah right! What other "better" ways were there to handle the situation kennyshoulda? Hold Larry down before/as he turns whilst Lee chest compresses? Except by doing that Lilly woul… [view original content]
I see it like this: As someone may have already said, Larry was able to knock Lee out with one punch AFTER having a heart attack. An undead version of him would have been too much to handle, especially with Lilly who would have probably be too shocked to defend herself. I believe Larry was dead because a few things point in that direction. The screenshot (not solid evidence, I know) of the episode. The conversations with Mark, the comments with Larry, those were foreshadows of his death. But regardless, it's not worth the risk. I totally understand not wanting to cross that line, but you can't risk everyone's lives over a moral code that's already wearing thin. If I was in Lilly's shoes, I wouldn't have let it happen - so I get it. But if I was in Lee or Kenny's shoes, I'm going for the kill.
Assholes like Larry don't deserve the gift of life. He chose to be a annoying, selfish monster and was sick anyway. I wouldn't hesitate at all in that situation.
I see it like this: As someone may have already said, Larry was able to knock Lee out with one punch AFTER having a heart attack. An undead … moreversion of him would have been too much to handle, especially with Lilly who would have probably be too shocked to defend herself. I believe Larry was dead because a few things point in that direction. The screenshot (not solid evidence, I know) of the episode. The conversations with Mark, the comments with Larry, those were foreshadows of his death. But regardless, it's not worth the risk. I totally understand not wanting to cross that line, but you can't risk everyone's lives over a moral code that's already wearing thin. If I was in Lilly's shoes, I wouldn't have let it happen - so I get it. But if I was in Lee or Kenny's shoes, I'm going for the kill.
I see it like this: As someone may have already said, Larry was able to knock Lee out with one punch AFTER having a heart attack. An undead … moreversion of him would have been too much to handle, especially with Lilly who would have probably be too shocked to defend herself. I believe Larry was dead because a few things point in that direction. The screenshot (not solid evidence, I know) of the episode. The conversations with Mark, the comments with Larry, those were foreshadows of his death. But regardless, it's not worth the risk. I totally understand not wanting to cross that line, but you can't risk everyone's lives over a moral code that's already wearing thin. If I was in Lilly's shoes, I wouldn't have let it happen - so I get it. But if I was in Lee or Kenny's shoes, I'm going for the kill.
Assholes like Larry don't deserve the gift of life. He chose to be a annoying, selfish monster and was sick anyway. I wouldn't hesitate at all in that situation.
Given that Larry punched Lee in the drugstore and left him to die, we can pretty much assume, since Larry still treats Lee (and Kenny) like … moreshit after 3 months, that he would at least not attempt to re-animate as well.
He'd do the same as Lee and Kenny did.
Edit: Larry also tells Lee "We'd be fine without you."
Guys this ain't even about Kenny... of course he was being ridiculous when he said that Duck might not turn and we shouldn't kill him and whatever else happened later on or before concerning Kenny is completely irrelevant imo. Not that I care either way as Larry was dead no matter what for me because of pharmacy incident but i'll ask once again - How long was Kenny supposed to wait? 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes? How long is too long? As far as Kenny is concerend the guy is gonna turn at anytime and dealing with it straight away is a must.
Bringing him back was pandering..it is the lowest form of entertainment because it requires so little effort. He should have stayed dead.
Lol you wouldn't have said that if it were anyone else would you? Well that of course is your opinion which is fine and although I agree that it was fan service as to why he was brought back, i am glad they did because the fact is the story still worked out ok more or less well and brought up some wonderful topics on this forum. I do agree that he shouldn't have had as much screen time as he did but obviously this was necessary for the story they ended up telling. Personally they probably wouldn't have written the cabin group any better if he hadn't been in the game though.
No one was in immediate danger in the meat locker. The Duck and Larry situations were not different.
sigh did you not read anything i said above? I gave you perfectly valid points as to why they WERE in immediate danger and why the Duck and Larry situation WAS different. Would you like me to say it again? Better still i'll rephrase what I said:
Why they were in immediate danger -
Larry had a heart attack, he stopped breathing, when that happens, you have 4 minutes to save someone's life. Did you know that? After 4 minutes the body shuts down and we die. In the time Larry had the heart attack, whilst the group were talking about what to do how long do you think passed in that time? A few minutes at least right? Lilly was giving Larry CPR and there was no response in those few minutes, he still wasn't breathing. Now upon knowing this you are still seriously telling me that the group were not in any immediate danger???? Despite the fact i have just given you a clear reason as to why they were in a very dangerous moment? I think the rate of how fast David/Travis turned after dying and then turning is also enough evidence as to how quickly someone can turn. Don't forget that the group only had David/Travis's death/turn to go on to truly understand the time frame of when someone turns. But the majority turn pretty quick anyway.
Why the Duck situation was different to Larry's -
Pasted from my last post that you didn't elaborate on:
Both situations were completely different. Duck was bitten, Larry was not. Larry became an immediate threat, had he died, he would turn and kill and the group were locked in a meat locker. With Duck, he had to full on die before being a threat, the group knew this and this time they weren't trapped and they had time to deal with him. Plus dealing with a small boy is a lot easier than dealing with a large man. They had more people to restrain him too.
So please explain how you figure both situations are the same?? Someone dying immediately is different than someone slowly dying, last time i checked right? Unless i am dumb as a bag of hammers huh?
What do I expect? For you to look at it from Lilly's pov. Would you be ok with someone killing your father or mother before you are ready to say goodbye?
And you don't think that i have looked at it from Lilly's view?? Of course i have and i felt very sorry that she lost her dad the way she did but once again you have either not seen what i put or you have ignored when i said that feelings are not as important as staying alive and keeping your friends and family safe. Seriously how are feelings important here? Tell me? You either spare Lilly's feelings and don't deal with Larry and then die not upsetting her or you do the difficult but necessary thing in stopping the threat and everyone survives. How is there not any logic in the point i have just made?
Plus it Kenny would look better if it were not for the fact he waited a whole 24 seconds to say we gotta kill him.
Lol and once again you seem to think that the group had time to deal with Larry which as i just clearly provided evidence as to why they did "not" have the time.
Bringing him back was pandering..it is the lowest form of entertainment because it requires so little effort. He should have stayed dead.
… more No one was in immediate danger in the meat locker. The Duck and Larry situations were not different.
As for Kenny refusing to talk about Duck or how to deal with him, well what do you expect? It was his son. Larry wasn't. You can say it was hypocritical but anyone else would have been the same way. You would be able to kill a random person easier than someone you know or care about. So why criticise him for being hypocritical on this occasion? I already explained the reasons above as to why the Larry and Duck situation was different. If Duck had died and would turn any moment similar to Larry, you know Kenny wouldn't do anything but someone else would have to obviously.
What do I expect? For you to look at it from Lilly's pov. Would you be ok with someone killing your father or mother … [view original content]
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it… more's not the "right" choice.
Um i suppose when David/Travis turned at the motor inn doesn't count then? Because the fact is, in TWD universe when someone dies they turn, Larry would have turned in minutes if he could not have been revived and even if he had survived he would have died shortly later anyway due to no immediate medical care for him so how is it not a right choice? It may not be moral to you but they would have all died if Larry hadn't been dealt with one way or another. There is no right or wrong when it comes to survival. It's just imperative.
Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all).
Ugh! It's lines like "Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood" that really piss me off due to how n… [view original content]
I see it like this: As someone may have already said, Larry was able to knock Lee out with one punch AFTER having a heart attack. An undead … moreversion of him would have been too much to handle, especially with Lilly who would have probably be too shocked to defend herself. I believe Larry was dead because a few things point in that direction. The screenshot (not solid evidence, I know) of the episode. The conversations with Mark, the comments with Larry, those were foreshadows of his death. But regardless, it's not worth the risk. I totally understand not wanting to cross that line, but you can't risk everyone's lives over a moral code that's already wearing thin. If I was in Lilly's shoes, I wouldn't have let it happen - so I get it. But if I was in Lee or Kenny's shoes, I'm going for the kill.
Just admit that nobody listened to clem in season 1 despite every time you had to side with her was for the greater God
No I won't "just admit" it because I did listen to Clementine. I let her come with me to Crawford, I let her have her vote about leaving Ben and I didn't blatantly tell her her parents were dead. Anyway, it's pretty irrelevant now whether or not her decisions were good or bad, seeing as a lot of people have built a relationship with Clementine, to the point that they'll stick with her, even if they personally think she made a bad decision.
Just admit that nobody listened to clem in season 1 despite every time you had to side with her was for the greater God and in season 3 ever… moreyone is all over her all of a sudden when she makes horrible decisions and somehow accidentally manages to shoot someone despite having 4 years of experience with guns.
Just admit that nobody listened to clem in season 1 despite every time you had to side with her was for the greater God
No I won't "… morejust admit" it because I did listen to Clementine. I let her come with me to Crawford, I let her have her vote about leaving Ben and I didn't blatantly tell her her parents were dead. Anyway, it's pretty irrelevant now whether or not her decisions were good or bad, seeing as a lot of people have built a relationship with Clementine, to the point that they'll stick with her, even if they personally think she made a bad decision.
Comments
And that is why they are choices in the first place. To give us the opportunity to pick and choose how our story will unfold, no matter how we disagree with them. Some are right and some are wrong. That is the point of a debate.
Dan is quite the debater, isn't he?
Exactly.
(http://imgur.com/8uf65jC)
And now that you mention it, I'll do one for Kenny v Jane as well.
So much for that...
(http://tazzle28b.deviantart.com/art/Lee-X-Lilly-Sweet-Love-513423575)
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it's not the "right" choice. Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all). Which apparently, Lee seems to think the same way, because he can even say it himself (to Kenny determinately): "You murdered Larry." It was a rash action, that regardless of intent, came with severe consequences, as best said by Carlos in Season Two of The Walking Dead.
He and I have a love/hate relationship....oh he is wrong...but I love the miserable bastard anyway.
Well said.
Now I have said this before and will say it again...Yeah sure...Larry was never going to recover. However Kenny took Lilly's chance to accept his death away from her by crushing Larry's skull. There were far better ways to handle the Larry situation that could have ended without Lilly becoming unhinged. Kenny's failure was not in crushing Larry's skull..but in his rush to do so without regards to grieving.
It is funny though when Duck is bitten, Kenny is against even talking about having a plan in place to deal with the Duck problem. It was hypocritical. It was...so human. And it is part of why season 1 was a triumph because it got what TWD is about. TWD is about humans being human in the face of the apocalypse. Realistically there is never going to be a happy ending to the walker problem unless you live in the arctic. Just like Rick Grimes said...We are the Walking Dead. And it is how we face the end that matters.
I preferred it when Kenny died to help Ben...it completed an Arc for Kenny...and is a better end than him getting shot by Clem or killed in a car crash.
Season 1 logic: let's go against clementine on everything, I'm talking kill Larry, leave her at the house, drop ben, steal from the car yeeerp.
A new frontier logic: okay, let's side with clem on everything, I'm gonna lie to cover her murderous ass, kill a depressed doctor who isn't in the right mind, open fire on an entire group risking the death of an innocent woman and let's also shoot a guy in the head who just lost everything he cared about aside from Tripp and wanted payback for his girlfriend's death.
I brought this up seeing as people always do what clem says in season 3 but in season 1 nobody gave 2 dicks, but they say they care about clem less now. Just kinda strange.
I disagree if he turned you could still put him down as he is massive guy and will take ages to get up making it easy to kill
lmao what? I'm pretty sure the whole goal of Season 1 is to give "two dicks" about Clem. And I haven't ever seen everyone purposely going against Clem. Also, if they did go against Clem, it's because she is still a naive kid. She's changed since Season One because she's gotten older, thus, we feel a lot more attached to her and she's making a lot more realistic and mature judgements. Season One Clem wanted to look for her parents in Savannah, despite the fact that it was obvious that they were dead. ANF Clem wouldn't do that. So seeing as she has changed, people will now agree with her more, and agree with her on most stuff.
Just admit that nobody listened to clem in season 1 despite every time you had to side with her was for the greater God and in season 3 everyone is all over her all of a sudden when she makes horrible decisions and somehow accidentally manages to shoot someone despite having 4 years of experience with guns.
Agreed! Lilly becoming unhinged after Larry's death is directly influenced by Kenny's previous actions. Had he never done what he did, or at least in the way that he did it, we could have seen a totally different Lilly. As for Larry's recovery, it's not my place to say exactly what would have happened otherwise. However, I have heard stories of miraculous events unfolding, even when the odds were against the people involved. Larry, being in a precarious position, is no worse for wear than a patient at a hospital, who being at the brink of death, is fully healed of cancer, in my honest opinion. Besides, if Kenny can escape death unscathed while being trapped in an alleyway, with the sewer being one of his only viable options (with hardly any time to uncover the manhole cover), then anything is possible at this point. Although, Kenny is indeed hypocritical, being so ready to smash Larry's head in with a salt lick, but hesitant to throw Duck out to the walkers, or likewise smashing his head in.
Hope you are being sarcastic saying i am wrong when neither of us are right or wrong
Um i suppose when David/Travis turned at the motor inn doesn't count then? Because the fact is, in TWD universe when someone dies they turn, Larry would have turned in minutes if he could not have been revived and even if he had survived he would have died shortly later anyway due to no immediate medical care for him so how is it not a right choice? It may not be moral to you but they would have all died if Larry hadn't been dealt with one way or another. There is no right or wrong when it comes to survival. It's just imperative.
Ugh! It's lines like "Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood" that really piss me off due to how naive that view is. How the hell was what Kenny did done in cold blood???? Do you really honestly think this? Do you think he did it for enjoyment? For a past dispute with Larry? Or to deliberately make Lilly suffer? Fuck no! He didn't like or want to do what he did! He did it because:
He was terrified. Imagine yourself in that situation instead of sat behind the computer. Anyone would be shitting bricks if someone could turn into a monster and try to kill you.
He did what he felt was necessary to keep himself and everyone else safe from the potential threat.
He knew that even if Larry could be revived, he still wouldn't survive. It's common sense knowing this that a heart attack survivor needs immediate help if revived as i said above earlier.
So please, cold blood is so wrong to be referenced here.
And that is why Kenny gets angry with Lee if the player tries to save Larry. Not because Lee wanted to save him but because Kenny felt Lee put him and everyone else in further danger by doing so and can you blame him? If my family was being held hostage, i would want to make sure i escape to save them but how can i do that if someone i consider a friend (a guy i saved from Larry who knocked him on his ass an episode prior btw) goes and puts you at risk and not supporting you in a serious moment?
There are always 2 sides to a coin, i wish other people would consider that instead of looking at a scene like this in one line.
Thanks for reading.
Oh yes because someone's feelings is more important than making sure that not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 people were kept safe in a moment of danger.
Oh really? Please share those ways? Though i imagine you haven't considered that they had no time whatsoever to decide what to do? Holding a salt lick above Larry, giving Lilly and determinant Lee chance to revive him? Yeahhh because anyone could hold an extremely heavy salt lick in the air that long! Yeah right! What other "better" ways were there to handle the situation kennyshoulda? Hold Larry down before/as he turns whilst Lee chest compresses? Except by doing that Lilly would definitely not realistically be able to hold her dad down when he turns. Even if Lee was the one holding him down and Lilly chest compresses, Lee wouldn't be able to hold him down due to his size. So then what? You get Kenny AND Lilly or Lee to hold him down? So you do that and then say Larry turns, who
Kills him? Lilly? Clementine? Oh yes i sure can see that happening.
Sorry i just have to laugh that you honestly say if you were in that meat locker in real life that you would even risk trying to save him knowing the danger that Larry would bring to yourself and everyone else. I have said this several times in this and other threads now about the comparison between this scene and the Do Not Disturb episode of Fear The Walking Dead of how excellent it is showing how i know i made the sensible decision knowing that Lilly/Lee could have been bitten trying to revive Larry like the bride was in that FTWD episode.
As i said in the first reply to this post, you are seriously saying that feelings are more important here than you and your friends surviving yes? Sure she would grieve and it was horrible for her and i myself felt very sorry it happened but seriously sweetheart how is someone's feelings more important than making sure everyone else is safe? Please tell me?
It is also funny that you fail to mention that both situations were completely different. Duck was bitten, Larry was not. Larry became an immediate threat, had he died, he would turn and kill and the group were locked in a meat locker. With Duck, he had to full on die before being a threat, the group knew this and this time they weren't trapped and they had time to deal with him. Plus dealing with a small boy is a lot easier than dealing with a large man. They had more people to restrain him too.
As for Kenny refusing to talk about Duck or how to deal with him, well what do you expect? It was his son. Larry wasn't. You can say it was hypocritical but anyone else would have been the same way. You would be able to kill a random person easier than someone you know or care about. So why criticise him for being hypocritical on this occasion? I already explained the reasons above as to why the Larry and Duck situation was different. If Duck had died and would turn any moment similar to Larry, you know Kenny wouldn't do anything but someone else would have to obviously.
Nah the best send off was Kenny knowing he got the kids he fought so hard to protect to Wellington. Nothing will beat that end for me. The one decent thing Telltale got right in S2 in my opinion.
Completely disagree and i explained my reasons earlier. Here they are:
Lilly knew what she was doing when she shot Carley and tried to shoot Ben. Lilly was paranoid way before Larry died, at the drugstore when first meeting, worrying about staying on the st john's farm (she was right though!) but nonetheless she had a paranoid personality before this. When supplies went missing she said she was a mess (sad, grief etc) but she wasn't stupid. Her words, she wasn't insane at all through any of it. She lost her temper from Carley's back talk and tried to shoot Ben for not believing him. Simple as that. It's so easy for certain people to blame Kenny because of how they feel about him yet they seem to ignore the fact that Duck wouldn't have been bitten and Carley/Doug wouldn't have died at all if they had listened to Kenny and took off in the RV days earlier to get away from bandits. Ben only slowed the process but he caused Lilly to order then"witchhunt". You can even blame Lee if you want but i'm sorry i will not ever accept the bullshit excuse people use for Lilly's actions.
Sorry but no. Seeing as i have witnessed in real life first hand someone being revived from a heart attack, what you are saying is not the case at all. People need immediate help when being revived, if they don't they will die.
And i'll say to you what i did to kennyshoulda:
As for Kenny refusing to talk about Duck or how to deal with him, well what do you expect? It was his son. Larry wasn't. You can say it was hypocritical but anyone else would have been the same way. You would be able to kill a random person easier than someone you know or care about. So why criticise him for being hypocritical on this occasion? I already explained the reasons above as to why the Larry and Duck situation was different. If Duck had died and would turn any moment similar to Larry, you know Kenny wouldn't do anything but someone else would have to obviously.
Bringing him back was pandering..it is the lowest form of entertainment because it requires so little effort. He should have stayed dead.
No one was in immediate danger in the meat locker. The Duck and Larry situations were not different.
What do I expect? For you to look at it from Lilly's pov. Would you be ok with someone killing your father or mother before you are ready to say goodbye?
Plus it Kenny would look better if it were not for the fact he waited a whole 24 seconds to say we gotta kill him.
I see it like this: As someone may have already said, Larry was able to knock Lee out with one punch AFTER having a heart attack. An undead version of him would have been too much to handle, especially with Lilly who would have probably be too shocked to defend herself. I believe Larry was dead because a few things point in that direction. The screenshot (not solid evidence, I know) of the episode. The conversations with Mark, the comments with Larry, those were foreshadows of his death. But regardless, it's not worth the risk. I totally understand not wanting to cross that line, but you can't risk everyone's lives over a moral code that's already wearing thin. If I was in Lilly's shoes, I wouldn't have let it happen - so I get it. But if I was in Lee or Kenny's shoes, I'm going for the kill.
Assholes like Larry don't deserve the gift of life. He chose to be a annoying, selfish monster and was sick anyway. I wouldn't hesitate at all in that situation.
+1
double post.
He really wasn't selfish he had a very good reason to distrust Lee
That's my point. IF we were able to convey that to Lilly...
No, he didn't.
Guys this ain't even about Kenny... of course he was being ridiculous when he said that Duck might not turn and we shouldn't kill him and whatever else happened later on or before concerning Kenny is completely irrelevant imo. Not that I care either way as Larry was dead no matter what for me because of pharmacy incident but i'll ask once again - How long was Kenny supposed to wait? 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes? How long is too long? As far as Kenny is concerend the guy is gonna turn at anytime and dealing with it straight away is a must.
Cmon Lee was a convinced murderer think about how many insane serial killers there are out there how was Larry to know Lee wasn't like them/
Lol you wouldn't have said that if it were anyone else would you? Well that of course is your opinion which is fine and although I agree that it was fan service as to why he was brought back, i am glad they did because the fact is the story still worked out ok more or less well and brought up some wonderful topics on this forum. I do agree that he shouldn't have had as much screen time as he did but obviously this was necessary for the story they ended up telling. Personally they probably wouldn't have written the cabin group any better if he hadn't been in the game though.
sigh did you not read anything i said above? I gave you perfectly valid points as to why they WERE in immediate danger and why the Duck and Larry situation WAS different. Would you like me to say it again? Better still i'll rephrase what I said:
Why they were in immediate danger -
Larry had a heart attack, he stopped breathing, when that happens, you have 4 minutes to save someone's life. Did you know that? After 4 minutes the body shuts down and we die. In the time Larry had the heart attack, whilst the group were talking about what to do how long do you think passed in that time? A few minutes at least right? Lilly was giving Larry CPR and there was no response in those few minutes, he still wasn't breathing. Now upon knowing this you are still seriously telling me that the group were not in any immediate danger???? Despite the fact i have just given you a clear reason as to why they were in a very dangerous moment? I think the rate of how fast David/Travis turned after dying and then turning is also enough evidence as to how quickly someone can turn. Don't forget that the group only had David/Travis's death/turn to go on to truly understand the time frame of when someone turns. But the majority turn pretty quick anyway.
Why the Duck situation was different to Larry's -
Pasted from my last post that you didn't elaborate on:
Both situations were completely different. Duck was bitten, Larry was not. Larry became an immediate threat, had he died, he would turn and kill and the group were locked in a meat locker. With Duck, he had to full on die before being a threat, the group knew this and this time they weren't trapped and they had time to deal with him. Plus dealing with a small boy is a lot easier than dealing with a large man. They had more people to restrain him too.
So please explain how you figure both situations are the same?? Someone dying immediately is different than someone slowly dying, last time i checked right? Unless i am dumb as a bag of hammers huh?
And you don't think that i have looked at it from Lilly's view?? Of course i have and i felt very sorry that she lost her dad the way she did but once again you have either not seen what i put or you have ignored when i said that feelings are not as important as staying alive and keeping your friends and family safe. Seriously how are feelings important here? Tell me? You either spare Lilly's feelings and don't deal with Larry and then die not upsetting her or you do the difficult but necessary thing in stopping the threat and everyone survives. How is there not any logic in the point i have just made?
Lol and once again you seem to think that the group had time to deal with Larry which as i just clearly provided evidence as to why they did "not" have the time.
If you are talking to me, then I can assure you, it wasn't sarcastic.
That is... a phenomenal explanation Dan. We'll put an end to their arguments soon enough.
He was talking to @Kennyshouladiedins1.
Your first part of the comment is something I never considered, but that is brilliant sir. I will surely use that.
Never a thing I could add, only agree, haha.
Ah, thanks for clearing it up pal.
If I spent more time on the forums, I'd be saying that (No disrespect to Dan).
Lol
Yeah i was talking to her replying to her sarcastic (assumed) comment
No I won't "just admit" it because I did listen to Clementine. I let her come with me to Crawford, I let her have her vote about leaving Ben and I didn't blatantly tell her her parents were dead. Anyway, it's pretty irrelevant now whether or not her decisions were good or bad, seeing as a lot of people have built a relationship with Clementine, to the point that they'll stick with her, even if they personally think she made a bad decision.
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Where is he/she acting like a little shit?
I killed Larry, I took her to Crawford, I told her we search for the boat and look for her parents, I didn't drop Ben, I didn't steal from the car.
I covered her, I shot Conrad, but I didn't kill Lingard. You're generalising.