And Arvo ambushed the group with his junkie bandit friends and then pretended not to speak English to buy time until he could escape at the frozen lake. Then he shot Clem. Fuck Arvo, he was obviously hostile and could not be trusted.
I think everyone is overly hung up on the fact that he shot Clementine, personally.
I mean, don't get me wrong--it was definitely out of line--, but people tend to act like that his part of his MO all along when it clearly wasn't: he couldn't even hold the steady in self-defense at first, his English was always a bit on the imperfect side before he lost his sister and became a prisoner, and he clearly wasn't down for robbing the group(even if you did steal from him) despite Jane blatantly threatening him and his anemic sister. He was just some dumb, meek young man who got really unlucky, not some tweeked criminal mastermind.
There was no way to know how taking Clem hostage would actually turn out, since all we knew about TNF at this point was that they killed a l… moreittle girl and raided a peaceful community. The decision is about taking a stand against an out of control guy who was threatening children with a gun, way worse than David ever did.
And you're comparing this to Nick and Arvo? Seriously? In most cases Nick shooting was an accident, and at the bridge he was confused and thought Matthew was holding up Luke and Clem. And yeah, a lot of players didn't forgive him and let him die.
And Arvo ambushed the group with his junkie bandit friends and then pretended not to speak English to buy time until he could escape at the frozen lake. Then he shot Clem. Fuck Arvo, he was obviously hostile and could not be trusted.
I literally cannot believe you just compared Clem/Gabe to Arvo and Conrad to Kenny.
I did feel somewhat dumb for not shooting Conrad back in December. As someone who always tries to choose pragmatically, letting this highly unstable and dangerous man back into the group felt really wrong. The problem is, not using Clem as leverage and killing him for her - a girl we supposedly only know for some hours - is also pretty dumb. An option to kill Conrad and still take Clem hostage would've been great.
Due to the inconsistent writing of this game, though, Conrad does a complete 180º and says he regrets it an episode later - for no apparent reason at all - which obviously felt very rewarding to the players who kept him and punishing for those who did otherwise since they lost all these pieces of content (shitty pieces of content though). So I'm glad episode 5 brought some reward to players who shot him as well for some balance.
I know many people preach telltale for what they did with Conrad and what a great determinant character he is but I do find that his handling was still complete bullshit. Conrad - while slightly better than previous determinants - is still pretty shitty and far from ideal. After avenging Francine - by killing Badger - Conrad became a cancer in the plot. He was completely irrelevant. He wasn't undergoing any character arch. He was simply existing for the remaining 2 episodes, and it's kinda sad to see how such thing made the fans completely wet. I hope Telltale didn't get the message that this is what we want determinant characters to be because it's totally not.
Determinant characters can't be insanely involved in the main plot - I get that - but they can at least give them their own separate subplots, or even have them offer determinant exclusive choices to the player - like episode 3 did with Conrad being able to shoot Badger. Having them being dead weight though like Conrad was on the following 2 episodes is a waste of resources, screentime, potential and outright bad writing.
´´You forfeit your life when you threaten someone else s´´
Dude you do realize that you just made an argument against kenny right?
Kenny killed Larry , he kills/Almost kills Jane so if that s your argument then Kenny deserves no forgiveness and should be shot in the season 2 Finale.
Putting down someone who is about to turn into a walker and fighting someone who you believe just killed a baby is a lot different than holding two children hostage and murdering their guardian if he doesn't agree.
Kenny never killed anyone who didn't threaten or hurt the group or his loved ones.
´´You forfeit your life when you threaten someone else s´´
Dude you do realize that you just made an argument against kenny right?
Kenny k… moreilled Larry , he kills/Almost kills Jane so if that s your argument then Kenny deserves no forgiveness and should be shot in the season 2 Finale.
Putting down someone who is about to turn into a walker and fighting someone who you believe just killed a baby is a lot different than hold… moreing two children hostage and murdering their guardian if he doesn't agree.
Kenny never killed anyone who didn't threaten or hurt the group or his loved ones.
Putting down someone who is about to turn into a walker and fighting someone who you believe just killed a baby is a lot different than hold… moreing two children hostage and murdering their guardian if he doesn't agree.
Kenny never killed anyone who didn't threaten or hurt the group or his loved ones.
Conrad believed Clementine to be part of the group that killed his wife and killed Javis niece soo how comes Kenny gets away with it and Conrad doesn't
Putting down someone who is about to turn into a walker and fighting someone who you believe just killed a baby is a lot different than hold… moreing two children hostage and murdering their guardian if he doesn't agree.
Kenny never killed anyone who didn't threaten or hurt the group or his loved ones.
Like what? Yells at Clem? Feels depressed? Delivers a baby? Yells at Luke for being incompetent? Beats Arvo the bandit who ambushed them? Fights Jane who pretended to murder a baby?
None of this compares to Conrad taking kids hostage at gunpoint in order to fulfill his revenge fantasy.
and Kenny can let Clementine die in the ep 4 flashback while just standing there like a moron the non canon scenes don't make sense and a character shouldn't be judged for it.
Lilly straight up said he had heart attacks that he couldn't get over and needed the hospital. CPR literally does not save you from a heart attack, it merely keeps your blood flowing until a defibrillator can arrive. Larry was dead as a doornail.
My reasoning is not inconsistent I am just going to defame Kenny when he is wrongly defamed over things he was right about and I'm going to denounce Conrad's monstrous behavior despite everyone loving his determinant status.
How does Kenny not being fast enough to save Clementine and becoming stricken over it in any way compare to Conrad deliberately murdering a child and his guardian? You're literally grasping at straws now.
and Kenny can let Clementine die in the ep 4 flashback while just standing there like a moron the non canon scenes don't make sense and a character shouldn't be judged for it.
Its hardly monstrous if your Gf just died and your trying to help an injured woman his methods were bad but he had good intentions and Kenny could've waited for Larry to turn it would take ages for him to get up.
Lilly straight up said he had heart attacks that he couldn't get over and needed the hospital. CPR literally does not save you from a heart … moreattack, it merely keeps your blood flowing until a defibrillator can arrive. Larry was dead as a doornail.
My reasoning is not inconsistent I am just going to defame Kenny when he is wrongly defamed over things he was right about and I'm going to denounce Conrad's monstrous behavior despite everyone loving his determinant status.
Not being fast enough? Have you watched it he doesn't attempt to pull his gun out or run to her or anything he literally just stands there and does nothing.
How does Kenny not being fast enough to save Clementine and becoming stricken over it in any way compare to Conrad deliberately murdering a child and his guardian? You're literally grasping at straws now.
Dude, literally THE WHOLE GROUP was grieving. Javi and Gabe lost Mariana and possibly Kate. Clementine lost AJ and basically everyone else she ever knew. Tripp and Eleanor lost their entire community in one fell swoop. Conrad had NO right to take it out on them, fuck the reasoning. You honestly think Kate would let Gabe be held hostage if it meant she got medical help? FUCK NO.
And about waiting for Larry to somehow feel better and recover from a heart attack, that wasn't going to happen. Do you know how heart attacks work? And people can turn incredibly fast in this universe, putting him down was the only guarantee that Larry wouldn't reanimated and hurt someone.
Its hardly monstrous if your Gf just died and your trying to help an injured woman his methods were bad but he had good intentions and Kenny could've waited for Larry to turn it would take ages for him to get up.
Actually you can see that he doesn't have his gun drawn and aimed until Clem has already killed the walker. And he wouldn't have shot because Clem would be in the line of fire.
Your argument is so off track i almost feel silly arguing with you.
Not being fast enough? Have you watched it he doesn't attempt to pull his gun out or run to her or anything he literally just stands there and does nothing.
Conrad believed Clementine to be part of the group that killed his wife and killed Javis niece soo how comes Kenny gets away with it and Conrad doesn't
People deal with grief differently and losing a community and losing a loved one is completely different and obviously Kate isn't going to let her kid be used as a hostage. Clementine isn't Conrad's kid and as far as he knew she was apart of the group who murdered Francine and when he finds out hes wrong he admits it. and going by your argument Kennys a horrible guy too as he took his anger of Sarita's death out on Clementine like I've said you make up excuses for some characters and not others.
Dude, literally THE WHOLE GROUP was grieving. Javi and Gabe lost Mariana and possibly Kate. Clementine lost AJ and basically everyone else s… morehe ever knew. Tripp and Eleanor lost their entire community in one fell swoop. Conrad had NO right to take it out on them, fuck the reasoning. You honestly think Kate would let Gabe be held hostage if it meant she got medical help? FUCK NO.
And about waiting for Larry to somehow feel better and recover from a heart attack, that wasn't going to happen. Do you know how heart attacks work? And people can turn incredibly fast in this universe, putting him down was the only guarantee that Larry wouldn't reanimated and hurt someone.
So why didn't he have it drawn then? and he can use a weapon or he could just grab it and pull it off her its a weak dead body ffs they are non canon for a reason and the only reason for it was for Telltale to force there player to choose.
Actually you can see that he doesn't have his gun drawn and aimed until Clem has already killed the walker. And he wouldn't have shot because Clem would be in the line of fire.
Your argument is so off track i almost feel silly arguing with you.
Come on man. Kenny did absolutely nothing to Clementine besides yell mean things at her for less than a day. That is in no eay comparable to pulling a gun on an adult and two kids, and holding on of them hostage in order to take the other prisoner.
If you can't see the difference then you are truly delusional.
People deal with grief differently and losing a community and losing a loved one is completely different and obviously Kate isn't going to l… moreet her kid be used as a hostage. Clementine isn't Conrad's kid and as far as he knew she was apart of the group who murdered Francine and when he finds out hes wrong he admits it. and going by your argument Kennys a horrible guy too as he took his anger of Sarita's death out on Clementine like I've said you make up excuses for some characters and not others.
So why didn't he have it drawn then? and he can use a weapon or he could just grab it and pull it off her its a weak dead body ffs they are non canon for a reason and the only reason for it was for Telltale to force there player to choose.
Come on man. Kenny did absolutely nothing to Clementine besides yell mean things at her for less than a day. That is in no eay comparable to… more pulling a gun on an adult and two kids, and holding on of them hostage in order to take the other prisoner.
If you can't see the difference then you are truly delusional.
Everyone grieves, yes. Kenny yelling at Clementine was not nice by any means but he did not hurt anyone or threaten their lives. The same cannot be said for Conrad's "grieving process".
And im not trying to say you aren't smart but it really seems like you're ignoring my points and just gunning after Kenny even though I've repeatedly explained how they are different.
Hey you're the one who said grieve wasn't an excuse not me and Kenny was literally saying it was her fault could scar Clementine for life.
and sorry I'm not as smart as you
Ok why tf am I arguing over a dumb af non canon go look up the death and tell with a straight face it wasn't fucking stupid and completely against Kennys character the same way Conrad shooting Gabe and Javi is completely against his character. You don't listen to anything I say and instead just insult me why should I take anything you say seriously when you can't even argue about a video game character without insulting the other person.
Because Clem was closer. Because he noticed the walker last even after AJ. Because he just wasn't that fast.
Regardless, accidentally getting Clem bitten is not the same as intentionally pulling a gun on kids and murdering one of them.
Ok why tf am I arguing over a dumb af non canon go look up the death and tell with a straight face it wasn't fucking stupid and completely a… moregainst Kennys character the same way Conrad shooting Gabe and Javi is completely against his character. You don't listen to anything I say and instead just insult me why should I take anything you say seriously when you can't even argue about a video game character without insulting the other person.
Lmao Kenny threatened people all the time you even play the game and I 100 percent am not arugring against Kenny I'm point out how you let Kenny get away with what he did because he was grieving and don't let Conrad off therefore your judgement is unfair.
Everyone grieves, yes. Kenny yelling at Clementine was not nice by any means but he did not hurt anyone or threaten their lives. The same ca… morennot be said for Conrad's "grieving process".
And im not trying to say you aren't smart but it really seems like you're ignoring my points and just gunning after Kenny even though I've repeatedly explained how they are different.
Lmao Kenny threatened people all the time you even play the game and I 100 percent am not arugring against Kenny I'm point out how you let K… moreenny get away with what he did because he was grieving and don't let Conrad off therefore your judgement is unfair.
Why don't Arvo count he's kid (Don't say because he shoots Clementine). Besides pointing a gun at someone really isn't the end of world don't see why you're getting so mad about it he didn't hurt anyone either. I don't care about what Kenny or Conrad did because they both lost love ones multiple times and that drives anyone a bit crazy.
Kenny being a little confrontational with people is in no way comparable to what Conrad did.
Can you admit that Kenny never held children hostage or shot a child? And Arvo does not count
Comments
I think everyone is overly hung up on the fact that he shot Clementine, personally.
I mean, don't get me wrong--it was definitely out of line--, but people tend to act like that his part of his MO all along when it clearly wasn't: he couldn't even hold the steady in self-defense at first, his English was always a bit on the imperfect side before he lost his sister and became a prisoner, and he clearly wasn't down for robbing the group(even if you did steal from him) despite Jane blatantly threatening him and his anemic sister. He was just some dumb, meek young man who got really unlucky, not some tweeked criminal mastermind.
What the hell man ? Kenny is the lord !
They made Conrad survive through the whole season and they killed Tripp instead. I got nothing to say anymore.
conrad is the homie in the scene where kate is about to save you if you didnt tap anything he dies saving you
His character is all over the place and forgiving him is not worth him becoming a glorified QTE failsafe
I did feel somewhat dumb for not shooting Conrad back in December. As someone who always tries to choose pragmatically, letting this highly unstable and dangerous man back into the group felt really wrong. The problem is, not using Clem as leverage and killing him for her - a girl we supposedly only know for some hours - is also pretty dumb. An option to kill Conrad and still take Clem hostage would've been great.
Due to the inconsistent writing of this game, though, Conrad does a complete 180º and says he regrets it an episode later - for no apparent reason at all - which obviously felt very rewarding to the players who kept him and punishing for those who did otherwise since they lost all these pieces of content (shitty pieces of content though). So I'm glad episode 5 brought some reward to players who shot him as well for some balance.
I know many people preach telltale for what they did with Conrad and what a great determinant character he is but I do find that his handling was still complete bullshit. Conrad - while slightly better than previous determinants - is still pretty shitty and far from ideal. After avenging Francine - by killing Badger - Conrad became a cancer in the plot. He was completely irrelevant. He wasn't undergoing any character arch. He was simply existing for the remaining 2 episodes, and it's kinda sad to see how such thing made the fans completely wet. I hope Telltale didn't get the message that this is what we want determinant characters to be because it's totally not.
Determinant characters can't be insanely involved in the main plot - I get that - but they can at least give them their own separate subplots, or even have them offer determinant exclusive choices to the player - like episode 3 did with Conrad being able to shoot Badger. Having them being dead weight though like Conrad was on the following 2 episodes is a waste of resources, screentime, potential and outright bad writing.
So you must think Clementine deserves to die aswell as she threatened Javi's when she shot at him in episode 3 to keep David out.
No it's not how is reacting badly the day his wife/girlfriend died make him all over the place Kenny acts the same way aswell in both s1 and 2
Kenny never threatens children at gunpoint. Dont compare him to this asshole
It was a warning shot that she intentionally missed. How is that the same as threatening to shoot children
´´You forfeit your life when you threaten someone else s´´
Dude you do realize that you just made an argument against kenny right?
Kenny killed Larry , he kills/Almost kills Jane so if that s your argument then Kenny deserves no forgiveness and should be shot in the season 2 Finale.
Putting down someone who is about to turn into a walker and fighting someone who you believe just killed a baby is a lot different than holding two children hostage and murdering their guardian if he doesn't agree.
Kenny never killed anyone who didn't threaten or hurt the group or his loved ones.
...Alvin? I got nothing.
Kenny did lots of bad shit in grieving lol
That was right next to Javi and easily could have hit him. Conrad was purely a threat nothing more at least he didn't actually shoot unlike Clementine
You don't know he was going to turn lol you come up with excuses for characters when it suits you you're reasoning is very inconsistent.
Conrad believed Clementine to be part of the group that killed his wife and killed Javis niece soo how comes Kenny gets away with it and Conrad doesn't
Like what? Yells at Clem? Feels depressed? Delivers a baby? Yells at Luke for being incompetent? Beats Arvo the bandit who ambushed them? Fights Jane who pretended to murder a baby?
None of this compares to Conrad taking kids hostage at gunpoint in order to fulfill his revenge fantasy.
Conrad actually did shoot in my game. He executes Gabe and shoots Javi in the face. So there ya go.
And while taking that shot was reckless, Kenny was trying to kill Carver not Alvin. Kenny feels incredibly guilty about this later.
and Kenny can let Clementine die in the ep 4 flashback while just standing there like a moron the non canon scenes don't make sense and a character shouldn't be judged for it.
Lilly straight up said he had heart attacks that he couldn't get over and needed the hospital. CPR literally does not save you from a heart attack, it merely keeps your blood flowing until a defibrillator can arrive. Larry was dead as a doornail.
My reasoning is not inconsistent I am just going to defame Kenny when he is wrongly defamed over things he was right about and I'm going to denounce Conrad's monstrous behavior despite everyone loving his determinant status.
How does Kenny not being fast enough to save Clementine and becoming stricken over it in any way compare to Conrad deliberately murdering a child and his guardian? You're literally grasping at straws now.
Its hardly monstrous if your Gf just died and your trying to help an injured woman his methods were bad but he had good intentions and Kenny could've waited for Larry to turn it would take ages for him to get up.
Not being fast enough? Have you watched it he doesn't attempt to pull his gun out or run to her or anything he literally just stands there and does nothing.
Dude, literally THE WHOLE GROUP was grieving. Javi and Gabe lost Mariana and possibly Kate. Clementine lost AJ and basically everyone else she ever knew. Tripp and Eleanor lost their entire community in one fell swoop. Conrad had NO right to take it out on them, fuck the reasoning. You honestly think Kate would let Gabe be held hostage if it meant she got medical help? FUCK NO.
And about waiting for Larry to somehow feel better and recover from a heart attack, that wasn't going to happen. Do you know how heart attacks work? And people can turn incredibly fast in this universe, putting him down was the only guarantee that Larry wouldn't reanimated and hurt someone.
Actually you can see that he doesn't have his gun drawn and aimed until Clem has already killed the walker. And he wouldn't have shot because Clem would be in the line of fire.
Your argument is so off track i almost feel silly arguing with you.
How does anything you just said relate to anything Kenny did? Lmao.
You dont threaten children or aim guns at them. Period. Conrad deserves to die for it, Tripp even says so. That is the crux of the argument.
People deal with grief differently and losing a community and losing a loved one is completely different and obviously Kate isn't going to let her kid be used as a hostage. Clementine isn't Conrad's kid and as far as he knew she was apart of the group who murdered Francine and when he finds out hes wrong he admits it. and going by your argument Kennys a horrible guy too as he took his anger of Sarita's death out on Clementine like I've said you make up excuses for some characters and not others.
So why didn't he have it drawn then? and he can use a weapon or he could just grab it and pull it off her its a weak dead body ffs they are non canon for a reason and the only reason for it was for Telltale to force there player to choose.
Come on man. Kenny did absolutely nothing to Clementine besides yell mean things at her for less than a day. That is in no eay comparable to pulling a gun on an adult and two kids, and holding on of them hostage in order to take the other prisoner.
If you can't see the difference then you are truly delusional.
Because Clem was closer. Because he noticed the walker last even after AJ. Because he just wasn't that fast.
Regardless, accidentally getting Clem bitten is not the same as intentionally pulling a gun on kids and murdering one of them.
Hey you're the one who said grieve wasn't an excuse not me and Kenny was literally saying it was her fault could scar Clementine for life.
and sorry I'm not as smart as you
Everyone grieves, yes. Kenny yelling at Clementine was not nice by any means but he did not hurt anyone or threaten their lives. The same cannot be said for Conrad's "grieving process".
And im not trying to say you aren't smart but it really seems like you're ignoring my points and just gunning after Kenny even though I've repeatedly explained how they are different.
Ok why tf am I arguing over a dumb af non canon go look up the death and tell with a straight face it wasn't fucking stupid and completely against Kennys character the same way Conrad shooting Gabe and Javi is completely against his character. You don't listen to anything I say and instead just insult me why should I take anything you say seriously when you can't even argue about a video game character without insulting the other person.
What did i say that was insulting? I am genuinely curious. Calm down
Lmao Kenny threatened people all the time you even play the game and I 100 percent am not arugring against Kenny I'm point out how you let Kenny get away with what he did because he was grieving and don't let Conrad off therefore your judgement is unfair.
Kenny being a little confrontational with people is in no way comparable to what Conrad did.
Can you admit that Kenny never held children hostage or shot a child? And Arvo does not count
Why don't Arvo count he's kid (Don't say because he shoots Clementine). Besides pointing a gun at someone really isn't the end of world don't see why you're getting so mad about it he didn't hurt anyone either. I don't care about what Kenny or Conrad did because they both lost love ones multiple times and that drives anyone a bit crazy.
I know. That is still something I regret on my first playthrough, though.