Neither, I genuinely think that Above The Law was the worst episode in TWDG series. Nothing happened in this episode, all the action and mea… moreningless dialogues were squeezed out to make a filler necessary for TT to follow their scheme and make five episodes. I could find some redeeming qualities in From the Gallows and Amid the Ruins wasn't all that bad imo, however AtL is just a straight up drag on which is completely hollow on the inside and brings nothing to the story, which annoys me probably more that it should.
I came up with an idea a while ago about having certain members of the 400 days group with you depending on if they went with Tavia or not in a final gun fight against the remnants of Howe's hardware. It would go differently depending on if the group was split or not, but that's one way they could've been utilized
From the Gallows. It's probably one of the worst finales I've ever seen in a Telltale game. Amid the Ruins was decent, but it definitely cou… moreld've been better. I was hoping to run into more of the 400 Days characters like Eddie or Nate and maybe even a cult since Clem was rubbing blood or some kind of paint on her face in the episode selection screen.
I can't see AtL being intriguing in any way, and there was no world-building, we've seen only a 1/10 of Richmond, which was a cliche happy playground with kids running around. Both Clint and Joan were uninteresting and lacked development, and the twist with Joan was so obvious I could see it from miles away. The episode was about killing Badger and this whole "revenge" part could've been done in 5 minutes, but TT decided to stretch it out as far as possible, just like they did with Ties that Bind.
Was it cliche? Honestly, it was the last thing I expected with how shitty their goons seemed. I was expecting something more sinister.
Five minutes? So what, you want Javier to just walk into Richmond, immediately see Badger chilling out on a post somewhere and David/Javi kills him?
I can't see AtL being intriguing in any way, and there was no world-building, we've seen only a 1/10 of Richmond, which was a cliche happy p… morelayground with kids running around. Both Clint and Joan were uninteresting and lacked development, and the twist with Joan was so obvious I could see it from miles away. The episode was about killing Badger and this whole "revenge" part could've been done in 5 minutes, but TT decided to stretch it out as far as possible, just like they did with Ties that Bind.
Honestly, I got the reasons for people hating Amid the Ruins, but In Harm's Way pissed me off the most. The trailer easily looked the most promising of any season 2 episodes, with the idea that maybe Clem could actually grow to like this settlement, maybe it wasn't so bad, but the final episode was rushed, stupid and a huge let-down. Carver himself? Reduced to a 1 dimensional bad guy, if he wasn't already before. Carver's camp? Empty. Mostly a ghost town. Especially if the 400 days characters didn't make it. Oh, and then there's the 400 days characters, where do I even start with them? Aside from their ridiculously brief screentime, Bonnie NEVER even thinks about bringing them with her when they escape, she's perfectly content to leave the people she was living with in a camp for god knows how long, probably the closest things she had to friends or family, to die to a herd of zombies. That is HORRIBLE writing.
We also get characters like Carlos and Rebecca shoved off to the side, Alvin getting picked on by Carver no reason besides getting him out of the way so no one has to animate him, Jane going from being mute one scene to talkative the next, Carver pulling the "we're not so different, you and I" shtick with an 11 year old girl, Kenny being suicidal yet Carver bashing his face in angers him for some reason, the horribly botched herd scene where they nerfed the tension by removing most of the dialogue when things go to shit, etc...
I could go on like this, seriously. Aside from Nick and Sarah, what's really so bad about episode 4?
I could go on like this, seriously. Aside from Nick and Sarah, what's really so bad about episode 4?
Terrible Cliffhanger.
Choices don't mean jack shit. You didn't steal Arvo's stuff? He still ambushed your group. You chose to rest for few days? Rebecca still gets weaker and same weather. You cut Sarita's arm off? Fuck you, she needed to die. You spared Sarita's arm? Kenny is still angry at you etc.
Plot holes. Sarah somehow manages to end up under the pieces of rubble when she was supposed to fall ON them if you saved her. No matter how much you try to help Rebecca's baby, Rebecca is still the same after leaving the observation deck. Luke and Nick have been friends for nearly 20 years and Luke's reaction to his death is like he has only known him for a few days.
Honestly, I got the reasons for people hating Amid the Ruins, but In Harm's Way pissed me off the most. The trailer easily looked the most p… moreromising of any season 2 episodes, with the idea that maybe Clem could actually grow to like this settlement, maybe it wasn't so bad, but the final episode was rushed, stupid and a huge let-down. Carver himself? Reduced to a 1 dimensional bad guy, if he wasn't already before. Carver's camp? Empty. Mostly a ghost town. Especially if the 400 days characters didn't make it. Oh, and then there's the 400 days characters, where do I even start with them? Aside from their ridiculously brief screentime, Bonnie NEVER even thinks about bringing them with her when they escape, she's perfectly content to leave the people she was living with in a camp for god knows how long, probably the closest things she had to friends or family, to die to a herd of zombies. That is HORRIBLE writing.
We also get characters like Car… [view original content]
Honestly, I got the reasons for people hating Amid the Ruins, but In Harm's Way pissed me off the most.
Agreed. Except replace pissed off with something like bored.
We also get characters like Carlos and Rebecca shoved off to the side
Well, Carlos definitely, but Rebecca was one of the handful of characters who actually had any prominence in the episode.
Jane going from being mute one scene to talkative the next
Don't really see how that's a problem considering she speaks once early on in the background and the only reason she started talking was because she was listening in on the group's escape plan.
Honestly, I got the reasons for people hating Amid the Ruins, but In Harm's Way pissed me off the most. The trailer easily looked the most p… moreromising of any season 2 episodes, with the idea that maybe Clem could actually grow to like this settlement, maybe it wasn't so bad, but the final episode was rushed, stupid and a huge let-down. Carver himself? Reduced to a 1 dimensional bad guy, if he wasn't already before. Carver's camp? Empty. Mostly a ghost town. Especially if the 400 days characters didn't make it. Oh, and then there's the 400 days characters, where do I even start with them? Aside from their ridiculously brief screentime, Bonnie NEVER even thinks about bringing them with her when they escape, she's perfectly content to leave the people she was living with in a camp for god knows how long, probably the closest things she had to friends or family, to die to a herd of zombies. That is HORRIBLE writing.
We also get characters like Car… [view original content]
Agreed. Except replace pissed off with something like bored.
Oh, totally. I was bored too. The first time around was horrible, I've managed to enjoy it a little more in subsequent playthroughs.
It's just that I had such high hopes after the preview. I was unimpressed with All That Remains, but A House Divided started to raise my hopes a bit, and that preview for In Harm's Way coupled with the tense thumbnail image really got me hyped. The thought of being playing as a little girl caught by hostile forces and forced to work in a sadistic camp, I mean there is just so much potential, so much tension you can wring from that and the final result was so... inoffensive and bland.
So that's where my anger comes from. I thought the season was going to get better and better, not worse.
Well, Carlos definitely, but Rebecca was one of the handful of characters who actually had any prominence in the episode.
Again, based off the title image I expected her to have something much more meaningful/impactful going on in the episode, especially in regards to her relationship with Clem.
I dunno, maybe you're right, it was just my expectations, but it annoys me nonetheless.
Don't really see how that's a problem considering she speaks once early on in the background and the only reason she started talking was because she was listening in on the group's escape plan.
Well, that bit was stupid. Like the "clem swears on the bridge regardless of your season 1 choice" thing. They make a big deal out her talking, or at least Mike does, and yet they just have her bluntly speaking in the background before that. Whoops. Why were they up there anyway. That would have been a good opportunity for Kenny to get aggro on Carver's ass for slapping Sarah, and fuel the tension between the two with Kenny's implied but not really shown rebellious behavior. I mean, the way Carver beats the shit out of him and calls him by his full name kenneth makes me think they needed a couple bits of interaction, you know?
I digress. I dunno, again maybe I just perceived things wrong, somehow I saw Jane being "mute" as a bigger deal originally. One thing this game series can do well is just leave strong impressions/implications without doing too much.
Honestly, I got the reasons for people hating Amid the Ruins, but In Harm's Way pissed me off the most.
Agreed. Except replace pisse… mored off with something like bored.
We also get characters like Carlos and Rebecca shoved off to the side
Well, Carlos definitely, but Rebecca was one of the handful of characters who actually had any prominence in the episode.
Jane going from being mute one scene to talkative the next
Don't really see how that's a problem considering she speaks once early on in the background and the only reason she started talking was because she was listening in on the group's escape plan.
I get the feeling it would be fine if they just spoke english instead of over the top russian nonsense. (they have unused english lines anyway)
And so what, the previous episode was a worse cliffhanger. Cutting off in the middle of the fucking scene. Reused the Beatrice scream from season 1 like we wouldn't notice. Jesus. Plus the whole herd scene was totally nerfed tension-wise because they removed most of the audio of the characters panicking, calling for each other, noting Carlos got shot and... you know... acting like real human beings instead of 3d models on a screen.
It was awful, and the fact that they probably thought that was a dramatic ending makes me cringe. If the thumbnails are anything to go by, the herd scene in its entirety would have began in episode 4, which would leave more time for Carver's Camp stuff in episode 3. Sounds much better to me.
Well, she did steal his gun no matter what.
It's bullshit that Telltale misleads you with a choice, but Sarita's death did make perfect sense. Who's going to not attract attention while getting their arm cut off?
Yeah, Kenny is a fucking asshole, when are you going to learn that? It should be plainly obvious by now.
Hey including sarah and nick related stuff is cheating, I already said they were treated like shit. Poor writing is also not the same as a plot hole.
I could go on like this, seriously. Aside from Nick and Sarah, what's really so bad about episode 4?
* Terrible Cliffhanger.
* Ch… moreoices don't mean jack shit. You didn't steal Arvo's stuff? He still ambushed your group. You chose to rest for few days? Rebecca still gets weaker and same weather. You cut Sarita's arm off? Fuck you, she needed to die. You spared Sarita's arm? Kenny is still angry at you etc.
* Plot holes. Sarah somehow manages to end up under the pieces of rubble when she was supposed to fall ON them if you saved her. No matter how much you try to help Rebecca's baby, Rebecca is still the same after leaving the observation deck. Luke and Nick have been friends for nearly 20 years and Luke's reaction to his death is like he has only known him for a few days.
I would be inclined to say Amid the Ruins because of how badly the determinant characters were treated, but the characters were actually taking some actions based off of how their characters were established, and the tension everyone felt carried on from the last episode. From the Gallows had none of that, each conflict everyone had with each other felt like it got resolved by a character going "that wasn't cool bro, but it's aight".
And none of the determinant characters in ATR got this type of treatment...
Oh, totally. I was bored too. The first time around was horrible, I've managed to enjoy it a little more in subsequent playthroughs.
Really now? Cause it got a little worse whenever I revisited it.
It's just that I had such high hopes after the preview. I was unimpressed with All That Remains, but A House Divided started to raise my hopes a bit, and that preview for In Harm's Way coupled with the tense thumbnail image really got me hyped. The thought of being playing as a little girl caught by hostile forces and forced to work in a sadistic camp, I mean there is just so much potential, so much tension you can wring from that and the final result was so... inoffensive and bland.
So that's where my anger comes from. I thought the season was going to get better and better, not worse.
Yeah, definitely the weakest episode for that and a slew of other reasons. That's the power of Hype for ya.
Again, based off the title image I expected her to have something much more meaningful/impactful going on in the episode, especially in regards to her relationship with Clem.
I dunno, maybe you're right, it was just my expectations, but it annoys me nonetheless.
Oh no, don't get me wrong--her development was pretty bare and/or by the numbers--but they actually remembered she was an important part of the storyline and gave her something to contribute to the escape plan(which was a bigger part of the episode than it should've been).
Well, that bit was stupid. Like the "clem swears on the bridge regardless of your season 1 choice" thing. They make a big deal out her talking, or at least Mike does, and yet they just have her bluntly speaking in the background before that. Whoops.
Well, to be fair, Mike was originally only supposed to have been there for about a week and I was always under the impression that Jane wasn't in there for that very long either, not to mention the men and women are seemingly given separate tasks to do, so he really might not have ever heard her say anything since she's a loner. But I get what you're sayin..
Why were they up there anyway.
It was only Jane and some other guy(Hank?) up there; Mike and Kenny were already off to work, as @Deltino previously pointed out. I believe they were also working on expanding the roof or something.
That would have been a good opportunity for Kenny to get aggro on Carver's ass for slapping Sarah, and fuel the tension between the two with Kenny's implied but not really shown rebellious behavior. I mean, the way Carver beats the shit out of him and calls him by his full name kenneth makes me think they needed a couple bits of interaction, you know?
Oh yeah, because if there's one thing that this episode definitely, it was MORE of fuckin Kenny stealing spotlight and getting to be important. And standing up for Carlos'(who people really derided already) daughter no less! I get what you're saying--"Go big or go home" and all that--but really, he's kind of the source of a lot of the disappointment the episode brought, so I couldn't care less.
Also, Carver also calls Mike "Micheal" for no particular reason, so it might just a faux-cultured quirk of his. Plus, he's egotistical enough that Kenny being literally nobody too noteworthy to him is perfectly in character for him.
I dunno, again maybe I just perceived things wrong, somehow I saw Jane being "mute" as a bigger deal originally. One thing this game series can do well is just leave strong impressions/implications without doing too much.
Yeah, for better or worse. Now if only it knew how to do that(and everything else) better.
Agreed. Except replace pissed off with something like bored.
Oh, totally. I was bored too. The first time around was horrible, I've … moremanaged to enjoy it a little more in subsequent playthroughs.
It's just that I had such high hopes after the preview. I was unimpressed with All That Remains, but A House Divided started to raise my hopes a bit, and that preview for In Harm's Way coupled with the tense thumbnail image really got me hyped. The thought of being playing as a little girl caught by hostile forces and forced to work in a sadistic camp, I mean there is just so much potential, so much tension you can wring from that and the final result was so... inoffensive and bland.
So that's where my anger comes from. I thought the season was going to get better and better, not worse.
Well, Carlos definitely, but Rebecca was one of the handful of characters who actually had any prominence in the episode.
Again, based off the … [view original content]
Comments
Amid the Ruins is probably a bit worse, but From the Gallows was waay more disappointing since it was a season finale.
I came up with an idea a while ago about having certain members of the 400 days group with you depending on if they went with Tavia or not in a final gun fight against the remnants of Howe's hardware. It would go differently depending on if the group was split or not, but that's one way they could've been utilized
I can't see AtL being intriguing in any way, and there was no world-building, we've seen only a 1/10 of Richmond, which was a cliche happy playground with kids running around. Both Clint and Joan were uninteresting and lacked development, and the twist with Joan was so obvious I could see it from miles away. The episode was about killing Badger and this whole "revenge" part could've been done in 5 minutes, but TT decided to stretch it out as far as possible, just like they did with Ties that Bind.
Was it cliche? Honestly, it was the last thing I expected with how shitty their goons seemed. I was expecting something more sinister.
Five minutes? So what, you want Javier to just walk into Richmond, immediately see Badger chilling out on a post somewhere and David/Javi kills him?
Yeah, that sounds climactic.
Honestly, I got the reasons for people hating Amid the Ruins, but In Harm's Way pissed me off the most. The trailer easily looked the most promising of any season 2 episodes, with the idea that maybe Clem could actually grow to like this settlement, maybe it wasn't so bad, but the final episode was rushed, stupid and a huge let-down. Carver himself? Reduced to a 1 dimensional bad guy, if he wasn't already before. Carver's camp? Empty. Mostly a ghost town. Especially if the 400 days characters didn't make it. Oh, and then there's the 400 days characters, where do I even start with them? Aside from their ridiculously brief screentime, Bonnie NEVER even thinks about bringing them with her when they escape, she's perfectly content to leave the people she was living with in a camp for god knows how long, probably the closest things she had to friends or family, to die to a herd of zombies. That is HORRIBLE writing.
We also get characters like Carlos and Rebecca shoved off to the side, Alvin getting picked on by Carver no reason besides getting him out of the way so no one has to animate him, Jane going from being mute one scene to talkative the next, Carver pulling the "we're not so different, you and I" shtick with an 11 year old girl, Kenny being suicidal yet Carver bashing his face in angers him for some reason, the horribly botched herd scene where they nerfed the tension by removing most of the dialogue when things go to shit, etc...
I could go on like this, seriously. Aside from Nick and Sarah, what's really so bad about episode 4?
Well I liked from the gallows so Amid the ruins was pretty bad.
Agreed. Except replace pissed off with something like bored.
Well, Carlos definitely, but Rebecca was one of the handful of characters who actually had any prominence in the episode.
Don't really see how that's a problem considering she speaks once early on in the background and the only reason she started talking was because she was listening in on the group's escape plan.
From The Gallows. It was the weakest episode.
Oh, totally. I was bored too. The first time around was horrible, I've managed to enjoy it a little more in subsequent playthroughs.
It's just that I had such high hopes after the preview. I was unimpressed with All That Remains, but A House Divided started to raise my hopes a bit, and that preview for In Harm's Way coupled with the tense thumbnail image really got me hyped. The thought of being playing as a little girl caught by hostile forces and forced to work in a sadistic camp, I mean there is just so much potential, so much tension you can wring from that and the final result was so... inoffensive and bland.
So that's where my anger comes from. I thought the season was going to get better and better, not worse.
Again, based off the title image I expected her to have something much more meaningful/impactful going on in the episode, especially in regards to her relationship with Clem.
I dunno, maybe you're right, it was just my expectations, but it annoys me nonetheless.
Well, that bit was stupid. Like the "clem swears on the bridge regardless of your season 1 choice" thing. They make a big deal out her talking, or at least Mike does, and yet they just have her bluntly speaking in the background before that. Whoops. Why were they up there anyway. That would have been a good opportunity for Kenny to get aggro on Carver's ass for slapping Sarah, and fuel the tension between the two with Kenny's implied but not really shown rebellious behavior. I mean, the way Carver beats the shit out of him and calls him by his full name kenneth makes me think they needed a couple bits of interaction, you know?
I digress. I dunno, again maybe I just perceived things wrong, somehow I saw Jane being "mute" as a bigger deal originally. One thing this game series can do well is just leave strong impressions/implications without doing too much.
I get the feeling it would be fine if they just spoke english instead of over the top russian nonsense. (they have unused english lines anyway)
And so what, the previous episode was a worse cliffhanger. Cutting off in the middle of the fucking scene. Reused the Beatrice scream from season 1 like we wouldn't notice. Jesus. Plus the whole herd scene was totally nerfed tension-wise because they removed most of the audio of the characters panicking, calling for each other, noting Carlos got shot and... you know... acting like real human beings instead of 3d models on a screen.
It was awful, and the fact that they probably thought that was a dramatic ending makes me cringe. If the thumbnails are anything to go by, the herd scene in its entirety would have began in episode 4, which would leave more time for Carver's Camp stuff in episode 3. Sounds much better to me.
Well, she did steal his gun no matter what.
It's bullshit that Telltale misleads you with a choice, but Sarita's death did make perfect sense. Who's going to not attract attention while getting their arm cut off?
Yeah, Kenny is a fucking asshole, when are you going to learn that? It should be plainly obvious by now.
Hey including sarah and nick related stuff is cheating, I already said they were treated like shit. Poor writing is also not the same as a plot hole.
I would be inclined to say Amid the Ruins because of how badly the determinant characters were treated, but the characters were actually taking some actions based off of how their characters were established, and the tension everyone felt carried on from the last episode. From the Gallows had none of that, each conflict everyone had with each other felt like it got resolved by a character going "that wasn't cool bro, but it's aight".
And none of the determinant characters in ATR got this type of treatment...
Really now? Cause it got a little worse whenever I revisited it.
Yeah, definitely the weakest episode for that and a slew of other reasons. That's the power of Hype for ya.
Oh no, don't get me wrong--her development was pretty bare and/or by the numbers--but they actually remembered she was an important part of the storyline and gave her something to contribute to the escape plan(which was a bigger part of the episode than it should've been).
Well, to be fair, Mike was originally only supposed to have been there for about a week and I was always under the impression that Jane wasn't in there for that very long either, not to mention the men and women are seemingly given separate tasks to do, so he really might not have ever heard her say anything since she's a loner. But I get what you're sayin..
It was only Jane and some other guy(Hank?) up there; Mike and Kenny were already off to work, as @Deltino previously pointed out. I believe they were also working on expanding the roof or something.
Oh yeah, because if there's one thing that this episode definitely, it was MORE of fuckin Kenny stealing spotlight and getting to be important. And standing up for Carlos'(who people really derided already) daughter no less! I get what you're saying--"Go big or go home" and all that--but really, he's kind of the source of a lot of the disappointment the episode brought, so I couldn't care less.
Also, Carver also calls Mike "Micheal" for no particular reason, so it might just a faux-cultured quirk of his. Plus, he's egotistical enough that Kenny being literally nobody too noteworthy to him is perfectly in character for him.
Yeah, for better or worse. Now if only it knew how to do that(and everything else) better.