Thanks for the detailed response. I've thought things through and I'll try to respond as best I can.
All fair points about Luke causing the least amount of harm through his actions, but I would argue that Luke caused a lot of harm through his inactions and unwillingness to make difficult decisions. Examples of this are:
Not making a hard call to trust Clementine about the dog bite
Not taking action to help her out while she was in the shed despite feeling conflicted about it
Not helping Kenny and Clem defend his group against Carver, i.e. running away
Didn't take action after biding his time in Howe's and got caught stealing food, leading to the plan being discovered and Kenny losing an eye
Not performing his assigned walker duty
I could probably go on but this isn't necessarily about Luke's merits, it's about his influence in ANF. With these listed inadequacies in mind, I think that the "Luke quotes" are not about Luke as a good guardian, but reflects on him as a rather flawed one.
Examples can be found in all of his known quotes:
"That's what i get for trusting people... again" This line was just so cringe and out of place, but in the context of Luke it could show how Clem regrets how she trusted him for his poor decisions or about how they both trusted Mike/Bonnie and got betrayed.
"Sometimes there's no other way to make things right" Luke was a guy who chastised Clem for killing a rabid dog, for godssakes. He also opposed to killing Carver, a man who hunted him and killed some of his friends. Clementine can determinately defend herself to Luke in s2, and in the context of Lukes character i believe this quote is Clementine acknowledging both her and Javier's willingness to get their hands dirty, unlike Luke.
"But you're no dummy, I know you'll make the right call" Once again contrast this statement and Javi's character with Luke's character and his tendency to be a dummy. I believe that Clem remembers Luke as a kind but naive man, and remembers how she had to defend her actions to him constantly.
And last thing i want to say is that I was extremely weary and tired of Luke the whole season and still tried saving him largely because Bonnie was yelling at me. MY Clem definitely does not value him more than Kenny just because of one reckless decision.
Tldr; Clem's "Luke quotes" imply that she remembers him more of a kind hearted doofus than a beloved guardian.
For the record, I usually try not to do in depth analysis about anything regarding ANF since most of it was rewritten or just shoehorned in … morebut I'll do my best.
It was just discovered that some s2 ending dialogues in ANF are overwritten by default Luke lines of you tried to save him in s2e5. What are the implications of this,if Clem would ignore her Kenny/Jane lines to make these random Luke lines?
Just brainstorming here, but the only reason I could think up as to why Clem would say her Luke lines that immediately replace Kenny or Jane lines might be due to Luke simply not doing anything to put Clementine in immediate/direct danger, as Jane and Kenny have. Making him, I dont know, a more trust worthy "mentor" that she trusts and the last memories that she has of him arent of him going batshit crazy fighting with someone else, but instead died a tragic death he in no way deserved, and Clem knows this. With Kenny and Jane there were man… [view original content]
In All That Remains Clementine find a box full of toys but ignores the toys and scavenges for food instead. Pretty much showing how she's a kid but has to function as an adult in the za.
Do you think Glenn could be Vince's younger brother? They somewhat look alike, within close age of one another and from Macon. Glenn, in the… more comics never mentions having a brother but reveals he used to steal cars and was in debt. Big brother Vince could have killed someone who was harassing and threatening him for money.
I thought the same thing, too. My guess is that he just got caught up in the fight and wasn't thinking straight, and didn't immediately think to shoot Wyatt/Eddie on sight. Perhaps he even wanted to capture them alive, to do all kinds of sick shit to them for killing his buddy.
Yes, Clem can search through a box of toys, and you can even see a doll in there that looks exactly like Bonnie (foreshadowing her appearance later on), Clem ignores them to find beans regardless.
In All That Remains Clementine find a box full of toys but ignores the toys and scavenges for food instead. Pretty much showing how she's a kid but has to function as an adult in the za.
Really now? I don't recall that.
No. Vince and Glenn are not brothers.
There is literally no evidence to back up this theory asides from the fact that they're both Asian and they both exist in the same universe.
I was taking the fact that it's inferible that he and Carver were friends once and that Carver seemingly has some respect for him. Plus, given that his lack of a clear role in the group despite clearly being important in their background is one of the reasons people tend to feel eh about him, I think it makes sense that he might be a bruiser when he needs to be.
Gabe bludgeoned David's walker in each of those endings and eventually decides to try fighting the other walkers off, eventually getting bitten if no one comes to help him in time.
Though I don't recall what Clementine says if she goes after them instead.
Gabe bludgeoned David's walker in each of those endings
Oh, now I'm glad I got the Gabe dying ending. I wanted Gabe to be the one to end his Dad yet I want him out of my hair. To me, his ending was so emotional which makes it the best ending.
Though I don't recall what Clementine says if she goes after them instead.
She says David got bit and Gabe had to kill him. It's pretty much the same ending you get with Javier but replace him with Clementine.
Gabe bludgeoned David's walker in each of those endings and eventually decides to try fighting the other walkers off, eventually getting bit… moreten if no one comes to help him in time.
Though I don't recall what Clementine says if she goes after them instead.
Gabe bludgeoned David's walker in each of those endings
Oh, now I'm glad I got the Gabe dying ending. I wanted Gabe to be the one to… more end his Dad yet I want him out of my hair. To me, his ending was so emotional which makes it the best ending.
Though I don't recall what Clementine says if she goes after them instead.
She says David got bit and Gabe had to kill him. It's pretty much the same ending you get with Javier but replace him with Clementine.
Here's several new questions instead of Repeats for once:
What is stance on characterization shifts? When is it good and when is it bad?
… more
What do you think Carver would've named AJ?
Shouldn't your relationships with Kate and Gabe have played a larger part in the finale?
I suppose. Except Lonnie was indeed supposed to be dead in Ties that Bind and David is the one to determinately kill him. Otherwise, there's literally no point, as he gets banished offscreen by Clint(which they never tell you in game) and, unlike Max, has no significant history with David or Javier to make his absence jarring.
Yeah he was still a main goon though and one of David's men. It would have been worse if he just never reappeared, everyone would be speculating whether Javier killed him with the pistol whip to the face.
I suppose. Except Lonnie was indeed supposed to be dead in Ties that Bind and David is the one to determinately kill him. Otherwise, there's… more literally no point, as he gets banished offscreen by Clint(which they never tell you in game) and, unlike Max, has no significant history with David or Javier to make his absence jarring.
Here's several new questions instead of Repeats for once:
What is stance on characterization shifts? When is it good and when is it bad?
… more
What do you think Carver would've named AJ?
Shouldn't your relationships with Kate and Gabe have played a larger part in the finale?
He was supposed to be dead to begin with! All they really changed is not having the animation where Max shoots him after realizing he's dead--otherwise, he and Rufus more or less act like that's what happened.
I don't know, it just bothers me that he's such a nothing character since as far as we're told, he's apparently just some mook under Max's command who was also in on the raids because...Max needed an extra hand? And they don't even really capitalize on his role there by having what Javier did to him play a part(perhaps a bandage over his nose to reflect this visually) or better yet, not having David outright kill him there in favor of just being promoted by Joan or something else to make him stand out since having David know his name doesn't really say much beyond making him seem like that much of a great guy. And that's one of the reasons why I don't care for the Shoot Max ending.
Granted, this installment has numerous instances like that, but it's still something I can bitch about.
Yeah he was still a main goon though and one of David's men. It would have been worse if he just never reappeared, everyone would be speculating whether Javier killed him with the pistol whip to the face.
Comments
Thanks for the detailed response. I've thought things through and I'll try to respond as best I can.
All fair points about Luke causing the least amount of harm through his actions, but I would argue that Luke caused a lot of harm through his inactions and unwillingness to make difficult decisions. Examples of this are:
I could probably go on but this isn't necessarily about Luke's merits, it's about his influence in ANF. With these listed inadequacies in mind, I think that the "Luke quotes" are not about Luke as a good guardian, but reflects on him as a rather flawed one.
Examples can be found in all of his known quotes:
And last thing i want to say is that I was extremely weary and tired of Luke the whole season and still tried saving him largely because Bonnie was yelling at me. MY Clem definitely does not value him more than Kenny just because of one reckless decision.
Tldr; Clem's "Luke quotes" imply that she remembers him more of a kind hearted doofus than a beloved guardian.
What are some interesting symbolism found in the entire series?
Omid is a name meaning Hope. Michelle ended up killing him at the beginning of Season 2. Therefore, Hope is Dead in Season 2.
Do you think Alvin was actually pretty strong when he got his Irish up?
Haha it's my favourite of the new ones, he looks so funny
Really now? I don't recall that.
No. Vince and Glenn are not brothers.
There is literally no evidence to back up this theory asides from the fact that they're both Asian and they both exist in the same universe.
I thought the same thing, too. My guess is that he just got caught up in the fight and wasn't thinking straight, and didn't immediately think to shoot Wyatt/Eddie on sight. Perhaps he even wanted to capture them alive, to do all kinds of sick shit to them for killing his buddy.
Yes, Clem can search through a box of toys, and you can even see a doll in there that looks exactly like Bonnie (foreshadowing her appearance later on), Clem ignores them to find beans regardless.
I never saw Alvin as a beefed up guy like Larry was honestly.
And they both live in Macon. There's not any direct evidence that ties to it yes but I believe it is possible given what Glenn has said about his past
Most likely considering he killed George while escaping
Yeah, that was my second thought.
I was taking the fact that it's inferible that he and Carver were friends once and that Carver seemingly has some respect for him. Plus, given that his lack of a clear role in the group despite clearly being important in their background is one of the reasons people tend to feel eh about him, I think it makes sense that he might be a bruiser when he needs to be.
Did David shoot himself or did Gabe shoot him when you see his corpse in the Gabe dying ending? Because he has a giant hole in his head.
Gabe bludgeoned David's walker in each of those endings and eventually decides to try fighting the other walkers off, eventually getting bitten if no one comes to help him in time.
Though I don't recall what Clementine says if she goes after them instead.
Oh, now I'm glad I got the Gabe dying ending. I wanted Gabe to be the one to end his Dad yet I want him out of my hair. To me, his ending was so emotional which makes it the best ending.
She says David got bit and Gabe had to kill him. It's pretty much the same ending you get with Javier but replace him with Clementine.
Okay, then official: Gabe puts down David most of the time.
where does he not put david down?
If David is alive (obviously) and you can choose whether to shoot him yourself or let Gabe do it.
link?
Here's several new questions instead of Repeats for once:
What is stance on characterization shifts? When is it good and when is it bad?
What do you think Carver would've named AJ?
Shouldn't your relationships with Kate and Gabe have played a larger part in the finale?
i meant if javi chose to shoot david.
Oh. Having trouble, but I'll keep looking.
Wait...I'm wrong...Javier CAN'T shoot David. Only Gabe can, which is weird.
So @DabigRG was right, Gabe is the only one who kills David.
I think Carver would have name AJ something like Hunter or other survivalist-ish names.
Or Carver Jr., aka "CJ". Who knows, maybe he wanted a successor to his name?
...What? Then why bother having Javier give an answer there?
Was there any real point in bringing back Lonnie in Above the Law?
To allow Javi revenge on all the bandits?
What year is it in s3? I don't really follow the comic and tv series just this game and ftwd..
I suppose. Except Lonnie was indeed supposed to be dead in Ties that Bind and David is the one to determinately kill him. Otherwise, there's literally no point, as he gets banished offscreen by Clint(which they never tell you in game) and, unlike Max, has no significant history with David or Javier to make his absence jarring.
I can't remember if it's been stated what Clem's favorite color is, but I get the feeling it is blue. Yellow would be my 2nd guess.
I have no clue on all the other characters though.
Yeah he was still a main goon though and one of David's men. It would have been worse if he just never reappeared, everyone would be speculating whether Javier killed him with the pistol whip to the face.
Carver would have names him William Carver Jr. Naming the kid Alvin probably makes him turn in his nonexistent grave.
2007 give or take couple months
He was supposed to be dead to begin with! All they really changed is not having the animation where Max shoots him after realizing he's dead--otherwise, he and Rufus more or less act like that's what happened.
I don't know, it just bothers me that he's such a nothing character since as far as we're told, he's apparently just some mook under Max's command who was also in on the raids because...Max needed an extra hand? And they don't even really capitalize on his role there by having what Javier did to him play a part(perhaps a bandage over his nose to reflect this visually) or better yet, not having David outright kill him there in favor of just being promoted by Joan or something else to make him stand out since having David know his name doesn't really say much beyond making him seem like that much of a great guy. And that's one of the reasons why I don't care for the Shoot Max ending.
Granted, this installment has numerous instances like that, but it's still something I can bitch about.
This is old but, what we're the St. John's going to do if Mark wasn't shot with an arrow since they still needed to feed the group?