Bigby was actually one of my favorite cases of character development in a Telltale game; I found his character as a whole to be pretty multidimensional and nuanced.
You guys did pretty good with most of the character arcs in TWD Season 1 and Game of Thrones. Some of them failed hard but others were done … morereally well. Lee, Doug, Lilly, Asher, Mira, etc. But characters like Kenny, or characters from the entire Season Two case (ESPECIALLY Jane and Luke), Ethan Forrester, etc. These characters are poor, they're badly written, they need improvement, and they all go NOWHERE. It's hard to recapture the writing of great characters, I know, but if you can't do that, maybe settle for Bigby Wolf and Javier Garcia. While not amazing characters they had very satisfying character arcs that all went surprisingly well.
Been working on this a lot longer than I intended and I can't think of anything else to say on it, so here it is"
I could talk about Kenn… morey....
So let's talk bout Sarah! Now Sarah has been one of the my favorite characters since I finally got around to playing Season 2 last year, so I think I'm more inclined to comment on her than most. Though that’s not disregard the viewpoints of others, who apparently consider her and Nick to be among the most wasted characters of Season 2 due to being more well-developed and complex than many other characters.
So with that in mind, I know it’s safe to say that the foundation for her character was pretty dang solid, but let's just say there was step or two missing. And upon reflection, I feel like one of the things that made Sarah feel unique is the fact that she seems to be the product of many different types of development/portrayal: simple and in your face, subtle and complicated, personable, al… [view original content]
I'd have to go with Gabe. You really see him grow as the story progresses, especially in episode 5. He really shines when he voices his disapproval of David's actions. Despite that he still risks everything to keep David alive. Not out of loyalty but because it was the right thing. That's how I interpreted it anyway.
you know out of all the characters i mentioned that i thought it'd get shit on for calling badly written or having average writing, i least expected bigby. i kinda thought a lot of people agreed with bigby's character being okay.
personally i thought i'd come back on the forums with 30 comments about how kenny is god and i'm wrong and should kill myself.
"Settle for Bigby Wolf"
boi
Bigby was actually one of my favorite cases of character development in a Telltale game; I found his character as a whole to be pretty multidimensional and nuanced.
You guys did pretty good with most of the character arcs in TWD Season 1 and Game of Thrones. Some of them failed hard but others were done … morereally well. Lee, Doug, Lilly, Asher, Mira, etc. But characters like Kenny, or characters from the entire Season Two case (ESPECIALLY Jane and Luke), Ethan Forrester, etc. These characters are poor, they're badly written, they need improvement, and they all go NOWHERE. It's hard to recapture the writing of great characters, I know, but if you can't do that, maybe settle for Bigby Wolf and Javier Garcia. While not amazing characters they had very satisfying character arcs that all went surprisingly well.
I honestly love this comment! Is it too much to say I nearly teared up at it's brilliance (I'm a writer myself and I whole-heartedly share your perspective on character development and relationships).
As a really brief, but - in my opinion - important aside:
If you're going to share a fact about a character, it needs to be shared within… more the games, not told by a staff member in an AMA. I honestly learned more about the cast from what you and the writers shared after the game, than what I learned in the game.
But back to my mini essay! \o/
Kind of an unexpected question I expected to be hearing - reading? - from Telltale, but ho hum! I'm just gonna blare my unpopular opinion about a certain character, try and point out why I think she had good development, and bring up some examples of this development mattering. In a nutshell, if you don't wanna read this mini essay - which is me just gibbering away - the point I try to make is that a character needs to feel like a person, which is something A New Frontier fails at doing, in my opinion.
But let's talk about a character that I, personally, really like, and think had some wonderfu… [view original content]
Booooo Sarah sucks....killed Nick....Booooooo....got what she deserved...only not as painful!!! Boooooo!!
What the FuCK?!
That is how quite a few posts went on about Sarah.
As Dabbydoo states in his Sarah post above, Sarah deserved better as a character....and once again I will lay the blame at the over use of Kenny in S2. The building blocks to several great characters were there...but for whatever reason...Telltale reverted back to using Kenny as if he never had his character arc in S1....it is like...yeah we know he learned a lesson or two by the end of season1...but hell we need conflict...so lets supersize him in S2.
Yeah, I realized that a good while back and the sentiment increased once I realized that Carlos AND Sarah had a lot more to do storywise before Kenny(and Sarita) were implemented and Mr. Shorette took over(and added Jane?).
Booooo Sarah sucks....killed Nick....Booooooo....got what she deserved...only not as painful!!! Boooooo!!
That is how quite a few posts … morewent on about Sarah. As Dabbydoo states in his Sarah post above, Sarah deserved better as a character....and once again I will lay the blame at the over use of Kenny in S2. The building blocks to several great characters were there...but for whatever reason...Telltale reverted back to using Kenny as if he never had his character arc in S1....it is like...yeah we know he learned a lesson or two by the end of season1...but hell we need conflict...so lets supersize him in S2.
I dunno, in thicker than water Gabe determinately jeopardizes the mission by creating a rift in the group (if you killed Conrad, which most players did) and creates tension. This would be a great moment in a character’s development, if it was in character. Gabe spends a decent portion of the episode praising Javi until his character does a 180 turn. And in the last episode, again he spends a decent portion of it praising Javi and then leaves with David.
Why use Nick? He isn’t the deus ex machina screw up that Ben is, and he is fairly likeable, in my opinion at least. And their character progressions are very different. Ben is a screw up who only stands up for himself in the end, and Nick redeems himself in the start of ep 2 of season 2 by “sacrificing himself” for Clem, although he doesn’t die. Of course, all of that is missed if you go with Pete. And after all that character development he has a fairly lack luster death (the second one).
Gabe – Ben’s character but never progresses past moronic jerk
Pretty sure he stopped doing that by the climax of Thicker than Water.… more Maybe even sooner depending on your choice.
And for the umpteenth time, use Nick instead of Ben for a comparison.
People didn't like the way Kate went all flipping floppety but her change of heart was really justified, but people don't realise it. Put yourself in her situation: you want to get away from the killers, but they have been dealt with and you just realised you were the reason for families being killed and lost. You will have the bloods of many people, including children on your hands, so you are going to want to stay to make things right, even if you don't like being in that location. If Kate is alive at the end, she'll be happy to stay in Richmond seeing as those "murderers" who were in the New Frontier are no longer there, just innocents who need help in these tough patches In their lives. So hopefully this'll justify why Kate changed all of a sudden.
Here is a concise list. I’m going to skip the obvious ones like Lee, Clem and Kenny because if you don’t understand why they are prime examp… moreles of fantastic character development then you’re a lost cause.
I’m going to mention mostly season one and ANF characters to keep this short but just as a side note season 2 characters were well written. But, again if you can’t figure that out, there might not be any hope for you.
Well-made characters and why
Lilly – carries the burden of caring for Larry (who is extremely unlikeable) while trying to lead a group of survivors who constantly question her judgement, and in the end the stress finally breaks her
Larry – you hated this guy but you loved the fact that he was so obviously a minor antagonist who you had no other choice but to live and deal with, and when you finally had the option to do him in and get revenge for all the times he was a jerk to you, it became a very heavily weighted m… [view original content]
I dunno, in thicker than water Gabe determinately jeopardizes the mission by creating a rift in the group (if you killed Conrad, which most players did) and creates tension. This would be a great moment in a character’s development, if it was in character. Gabe spends a decent portion of the episode praising Javi until his character does a 180 turn. And in the last episode, again he spends a decent portion of it praising Javi and then leaves with David.
The funny thing is, if you were paying attention, that was perfectly in character for Gabe. And yes, that should've been a great moment for more concentrated character development. The problem is that they implemented that scene in the most bidimensional way possible(oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was still playing Season 2) by ignoring your actual relationship with Gabe in favor of causing drama that the episode isn't gonna really develop that much. Add in the fact that Tripp was at his most useless and Clementine was pointlessly tagging along with nothing else to do at that point and you just have a lot of frustrated and confused players wondering "wtf?".
Why use Nick? He isn’t the deus ex machina screw up that Ben is, and he is fairly likeable, in my opinion at least. And their character progressions are very different. Ben is a screw up who only stands up for himself in the end, and Nick redeems himself in the start of ep 2 of season 2 by “sacrificing himself” for Clem, although he doesn’t die. Of course, all of that is missed if you go with Pete. And after all that character development he has a fairly lack luster death (the second one).
Because Gabe is much closer to Nick than he is to Ben personality-wise. The big difference is the age gap(about 12+ years), not having as crippling a guilt complex and/or being prone to depression, and the lack of actual blood on Gabe's hands(and no, Kate's doesn't count).
Also, Ben standing up for himself was less about him and more about getting Kenny to realize how selfish and dickish he was being since they got to Savannah. Not to mention that his own problem was his self-depreciation that he can be convinced to put aside for Clementine's sake in the end and that only really got as bad as it did because of Kenny and Lilly.
I dunno, in thicker than water Gabe determinately jeopardizes the mission by creating a rift in the group (if you killed Conrad, which most … moreplayers did) and creates tension. This would be a great moment in a character’s development, if it was in character. Gabe spends a decent portion of the episode praising Javi until his character does a 180 turn. And in the last episode, again he spends a decent portion of it praising Javi and then leaves with David.
Why use Nick? He isn’t the deus ex machina screw up that Ben is, and he is fairly likeable, in my opinion at least. And their character progressions are very different. Ben is a screw up who only stands up for himself in the end, and Nick redeems himself in the start of ep 2 of season 2 by “sacrificing himself” for Clem, although he doesn’t die. Of course, all of that is missed if you go with Pete. And after all that character development he has a fairly lack luster death (the second one).
People didn't like the way Kate went all flipping floppety but her change of heart was really justified, but people don't realise it. Put yo… moreurself in her situation: you want to get away from the killers, but they have been dealt with and you just realised you were the reason for families being killed and lost. You will have the bloods of many people, including children on your hands, so you are going to want to stay to make things right, even if you don't like being in that location. If Kate is alive at the end, she'll be happy to stay in Richmond seeing as those "murderers" who were in the New Frontier are no longer there, just innocents who need help in these tough patches In their lives. So hopefully this'll justify why Kate changed all of a sudden.
This. Though I definitely get the feeling she might fall into a depression by the next time we see her.
I would've said something myself, but honestly he went off into a completely different tangent that confused the fuck outta me.
You said he in there is why, and javier did get a little depressed when Kate die during but shook it off after a while. I guess javier would be able to help cheer Kate up, he probably did that in the 3 days that we skipped.
I guess javier would be able to help cheer Kate up, he probably did that in the 3 days that we skipped.
I suppose. But keep in mind that not only did David die, but Gabe can too . So it's very likely she'll be even more prone to feeling bad than she already was.
You said he in there is why, and javier did get a little depressed when Kate die during but shook it off after a while. I guess javier would be able to help cheer Kate up, he probably did that in the 3 days that we skipped.
yeah, I worded that a little shit. Even took me a minute to figure out what I was trying to say. Instead of she, you said he. "But honestly he went off"
Yeah, she can be feeling notable but remember... Conrad, if he survived was a bar tender. In other words, a cheap therapist if not, she always has Eleanor or someone else while javier does the logical thing and helps clementine find aj in case she is unsuccessful or can't do it alone. 2 people are always better than one, and javier seems to know a thing or two about surviving as well as tracking, seeing as he spent 4 years with Kate tracking the movement of herds.
You said he in there is why,
...What?
I guess javier would be able to help cheer Kate up, he probably did that in the 3 days t… morehat we skipped.
I suppose. But keep in mind that not only did David die, but Gabe can too . So it's very likely she'll be even more prone to feeling bad than she already was.
You make some good points about Nick and Ben but I still dont see how Gabe warming up to Javi in ep 4 and then stabbing him in the back is remaining in character. Gabe truly respected Javi, he wanted to be like him and was constantly trying to impress him. To get attention from the one person he looked up to, but then that all went out the window when he reveals that you killed Conrad in a situation where a man was holding a child hostage, which was Gabe, who you proceed to rescue. Also you can tell Tripp afterwards what happened to Conrad, vaguely, which I did and Tripp seems to just forget that. I just dont think ANF was well written.
I dunno, in thicker than water Gabe determinately jeopardizes the mission by creating a rift in the group (if you killed Conrad, which most … moreplayers did) and creates tension. This would be a great moment in a character’s development, if it was in character. Gabe spends a decent portion of the episode praising Javi until his character does a 180 turn. And in the last episode, again he spends a decent portion of it praising Javi and then leaves with David.
The funny thing is, if you were paying attention, that was perfectly in character for Gabe. And yes, that should've been a great moment for more concentrated character development. The problem is that they implemented that scene in the most bidimensional way possible(oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was still playing Season 2) by ignoring your actual relationship with Gabe in favor of causing drama that the episode isn't gonna really develop that much. Add in the fact that Tripp was at… [view original content]
Let me explain why Kate's change of mind is irrational. While she is trying to rescue Javi some jerk throws a molotov at her car thus blinding her and causes her to crash. Unfortunately that lets walkers in. This action was not by her choice nor was it preventable. While this is happening TNF is mowing down its own people with gun fire (yes this happens you can see it) there are only two targets Javi and David, but instead of just shooting them before this get crazy NF soldiers begin shooting into the assembled crowd. If my original plan was to get out of this place, I'd be even more set on getting the hell out of there.
People didn't like the way Kate went all flipping floppety but her change of heart was really justified, but people don't realise it. Put yo… moreurself in her situation: you want to get away from the killers, but they have been dealt with and you just realised you were the reason for families being killed and lost. You will have the bloods of many people, including children on your hands, so you are going to want to stay to make things right, even if you don't like being in that location. If Kate is alive at the end, she'll be happy to stay in Richmond seeing as those "murderers" who were in the New Frontier are no longer there, just innocents who need help in these tough patches In their lives. So hopefully this'll justify why Kate changed all of a sudden.
Yes, but remember: if Kate wasn't driving that truck in that direction in the first place she wouldn't have been hit by the Molotov. I think this is why she blames herself. If she came from another road, maybe, it could have been preventable.
Let me explain why Kate's change of mind is irrational. While she is trying to rescue Javi some jerk throws a molotov at her car thus blindi… moreng her and causes her to crash. Unfortunately that lets walkers in. This action was not by her choice nor was it preventable. While this is happening TNF is mowing down its own people with gun fire (yes this happens you can see it) there are only two targets Javi and David, but instead of just shooting them before this get crazy NF soldiers begin shooting into the assembled crowd. If my original plan was to get out of this place, I'd be even more set on getting the hell out of there.
Successful meaningful character development in my opinion is making us feel for a character without having to put them in high action scenarios with lots of gunshots and explosions, something SEASON ONE did very well.
Even the table scene in Season Two handled some parts well, such as the scene where you have to chose to sit next to your old friend Kenny or your new friend Luke, its small moments like those that can be effective, more effective than shootouts or action scenes.
Focus on the SMALL moments, those are the most memorable.
-Lee
-Clementine
-Kenny
^My obvious picks of the best written characters in the game
-Luke
-Jane
^These two showed potential, but one was killed off, and the other was killed off after she served her purpose to the story, which was the conflict and buildup to the end.
-David
^The only solid character to come out of ANF.
Death is a part of The Walking Dead, since its literally in the name, but stories where all the characters DONT die in the end can be just as meaningful too, if not more, which is why I was pleasantly surprised not everyone died at the end of ANF.
I do think what the comic and show does better than the game is that they have a larger cast and variety of characters that are expanded on over seasons. Truth be told most game characters that were well developed that could hold their own against characters like Rick or Negan have been killed off or shoved out of the story, the only one remaining being Clementine.
The formula of the game seems to be. Clem meets new group, new group dies one by one until the end, just a few left, end.. move on to the next season. Theres no overarching plot connecting characters from previous seasons, Kenny being the only one who got two seasons, there needs to be more of this.
True. Funny you should mention Conrad considering I could see her turning to drinking now that she determinately has no one besides Javier to pace herself with.
...what?
yeah, I worded that a little shit. Even took me a minute to figure out what I was trying to say. Instead of she, you said h… moree. "But honestly he went off"
Yeah, she can be feeling notable but remember... Conrad, if he survived was a bar tender. In other words, a cheap therapist if not, she always has Eleanor or someone else while javier does the logical thing and helps clementine find aj in case she is unsuccessful or can't do it alone. 2 people are always better than one, and javier seems to know a thing or two about surviving as well as tracking, seeing as he spent 4 years with Kate tracking the movement of herds.
I'll just link my post here. Read it, learn it, love it!
I just dont think ANF was well written.
Pretty much. They clearly have some good ideas and neat concepts for a story; the problem is often skewed priorities when it comes to the implementation and execution of them. Too many cooks in the kitchen also plays a major role in that.
You make some good points about Nick and Ben but I still dont see how Gabe warming up to Javi in ep 4 and then stabbing him in the back is r… moreemaining in character. Gabe truly respected Javi, he wanted to be like him and was constantly trying to impress him. To get attention from the one person he looked up to, but then that all went out the window when he reveals that you killed Conrad in a situation where a man was holding a child hostage, which was Gabe, who you proceed to rescue. Also you can tell Tripp afterwards what happened to Conrad, vaguely, which I did and Tripp seems to just forget that. I just dont think ANF was well written.
Season 1 charcaters had great character development, example: Carley, Lilly, ect! But ANF failed, with most of the characters having no char… morecater development. If there is another WD episode coming out anytime soon, try and relate character development towards Season 1 characters please.
I liked Sam.
She was actually a very kind hearted person. All she meant was to help her family to survive. Even though she fucked up many times. And beautiful girl.
Unfortunately Telltale made her determinant so we will never see her again in a game.
* Clementine probably had the best development out of every character the series introduced. Going from a sweet, innocent little girl to a h… moreardened survivor was amazing and emotional, especially looking back on how much she affected you as a player.
* Kenny had good development too, especially in S2 towards his end in NF.
* I thought Ben has good character development IF you didn't drop him off the bell tower. He went from a screwup to a helpful individual: helping Lee from falling off the tower, almost cutting off his arm to save his life, and sacrificing himself to save the group.
* Lee's development was amazing, transforming from simply a babysitter for Clementine to a full fledged parent to her.
* Sam had pretty good development from the mini-series. She went from being another complaining teen to a hardened survivor thanks to Michonne. I'm surprised she doesn't get much attention.
Someone recently commented on a point I made about how there should be multiple endings.
I made a response that may interest you. or not.
Is having the choice of Clem and AJs fate going to be the same as all the choices we had in S3 - you know, the ones that made zero difference to anything or anyone because as soon as the characters spoke one line of dialog commenting about the choice you made they then completely ignored it and carried on with the script
If they ever make another game after this, the alternate endings might be limited so it could be brought back to a single plot point. But since this is supposed to be the end, they don't have those restrictions anymore. If they're keeping their word, and this is their final entry, they should go wild with the variance of their endings to make us want to replay this series for years after the season is over.
I don't care for AJ at all. He's someone else's kid and we didn't have any interaction with him over the course of time like we had with Clem over the course of season 1 so he can die. Given the choice to save him over Clem (if that choice occurs) then I'll throw him to the walkers wrapped in a blanket like a chicken burrito and run Clem's ass outta there
I get you there. Right now, AJ is more of a plot device than an actual character and I hope this changes in their last installment. I'm more into it because this is what's going to make Clementine feel complete. Just like Lee devoted his life to protecting her because there wasn't much else worth living for, she has devoted her life to protect him because of the same reasons. Everyone else she knew well, like more than just a few days, has either died or abandoned her, so she doesn't have much to keep her tied to this world. The real reason she stays is because there is someone out there that she knows still depends on her. And I'm not talking about whether their heart is still beating or not. Someone with a glimmer of hope, that has not been hardened by the world around them and who has not tried to survive by standing on the bodies of the people they've killed. (Sorry for that last sentence. I've been reading to much of the comic books. )
Having said that I still say Clem should have died in S3 - she was there for pure fan service and so many interactions between her and Javi made no sense if you consider they knew each other for a matter of days.
You could say that she is just fan service. But thinking about how long the comic books have been going on (Since 2003) and how the main protagonist of that series is still alive, maybe not with all his pieces, but alive, why should Clementine have to die? The comic book's main protagonist has gone through a lot of shit, too, and there has been many times where he thought he has had nothing to live for. ( Damn it. I think my response is completely irrelevant. My brain is too much into the comics for me to make any goddamn sense in the telltale universe. )
My main point is I still think that there is more room for Clem to be around. There just needs to be actual story to her instead of her just being "Hey I'm here. Let's kick ass and shit.". Getting AJ back will be a step in the right direction. It will give us the opportunity to see her as a caregiver instead of a zombie-killing Badass. Lee was good at balancing the two, now is time for her to really shine.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE MAKE SEASON 4 CHARACTERS HAVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, JUST LIKE SEASON 1 CHARACTERS! This is what everyone wants in the community, including me. @Alyssa_TTG
In the context of this being a feedback thread, I'll say that bumping the thread is fine in general. But, if you bump the thread after weeks of inactivity - please try to have a better reason as opposed to only posting something that people have already discussed in more detail before.
It's kind of redundant to bump this thread and make everyone check back in, only for them to see a plain comment that doesn't add much else to discussion. You aren't in trouble, but it's just better for discussion if you have a better reason than that to bump a previously inactive thread.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE MAKE SEASON 4 CHARACTERS HAVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, JUST LIKE SEASON 1 CHARACTERS! This is what everyone wants in the community, including me. @Alyssa_TTG
Sorry for bumping an oldish thread but I thought I had something to add.
Fleshing out and making the supporting cast have complex, interesting and intertwining arcs is much more important than giving the main character a super complex arc. I'm absolutely not saying they shouldn't have one, but that the supporting cast should have the real standouts seeing as we are the observes of their arcs.
If we look back to Season One, Lee had a pretty basic redeptive arc, which was fulfilled in the end and was satisfying. The ways he got to his redemption is what is important. It was unique for each player as each player projects themselves onto the main player character, meaning it would be kind of backwards to try to give a rigid arc. The reason Lee's pretty basic arc is given a lot more weight is due to the other characters arcs and how they cross with each other. Clementine's growing up and maturing is what gives Lee's story the power it has. Kenny and Jane's arcs are very fascinating, and as an observer, we appreciate that.
So tl;dr focus on giving the core cast orbiting the main player character complex arcs and development and the rest will fall in line.
Agreed. Season 2 definitely suffered from trying to tell a myth arc with numerous different arcs and backstories, but failed to tie together, complete, or even exposit many of them.
It's one of the reasons I feel characters like Sarah and Gabe are the most wasted.
Sorry for bumping an oldish thread but I thought I had something to add.
Fleshing out and making the supporting cast have complex, intere… moresting and intertwining arcs is much more important than giving the main character a super complex arc. I'm absolutely not saying they shouldn't have one, but that the supporting cast should have the real standouts seeing as we are the observes of their arcs.
If we look back to Season One, Lee had a pretty basic redeptive arc, which was fulfilled in the end and was satisfying. The ways he got to his redemption is what is important. It was unique for each player as each player projects themselves onto the main player character, meaning it would be kind of backwards to try to give a rigid arc. The reason Lee's pretty basic arc is given a lot more weight is due to the other characters arcs and how they cross with each other. Clementine's growing up and maturing is what gives Lee's story the power it has. K… [view original content]
hello i hope telltale sees this it needs to happen. you know the no response option - well it seems pretty useless and the story progresses automatically so. 2 things 1. how about an option to type in what you want to say ( or even use a microphone) i'd like to see the AI be smart enough to respond to a unscripted word because all options are scripted right now thing 2. what is going on with the operating system it seems to be getting worse and more glitchy starting from new frontier (and what came out before new frontier had glitches too) all the way to the guardians of the galaxy episode 3 the AI bots get frozen so you can't progress further i only discovered this after trying to beat it twice seems like something needs to be updated or something is being done wrong because previous titles had none of theese issues. my idea of true player choice text or (microphone) would make a greater game it would be awesome i'd be hyped. you see the thing is i'd like to say in my own words not scripted why because i see a solution that none of the 4 choices would solve. example word option 1 say be nice word option 2 say be mean word option 3 say be silly word option 4 say nothing custom word option 5 say something confusing or say whatever you want. win win. you are given your options (scripted options) but what if you say a unscripted option how would they respond? of course this would require an AI bot update software engine update it's worth a shot even though all telltale games are scripted they are all good and easy even a kid can pick them up. love getting that easy platinum trophy LOL
hello i hope telltale sees this it needs to happen. you know the no response option - well it seems pretty useless and the story progresses … moreautomatically so. 2 things 1. how about an option to type in what you want to say ( or even use a microphone) i'd like to see the AI be smart enough to respond to a unscripted word because all options are scripted right now thing 2. what is going on with the operating system it seems to be getting worse and more glitchy starting from new frontier (and what came out before new frontier had glitches too) all the way to the guardians of the galaxy episode 3 the AI bots get frozen so you can't progress further i only discovered this after trying to beat it twice seems like something needs to be updated or something is being done wrong because previous titles had none of theese issues. my idea of true player choice text or (microphone) would make a greater game it would be awesome i'd be hyped. you see the thi… [view original content]
Comments
"Settle for Bigby Wolf"
boi
Bigby was actually one of my favorite cases of character development in a Telltale game; I found his character as a whole to be pretty multidimensional and nuanced.
I spaced out your post's text by adding paragraphs. It helps with readability in longer form posts.
I'd have to go with Gabe. You really see him grow as the story progresses, especially in episode 5. He really shines when he voices his disapproval of David's actions. Despite that he still risks everything to keep David alive. Not out of loyalty but because it was the right thing. That's how I interpreted it anyway.
you know out of all the characters i mentioned that i thought it'd get shit on for calling badly written or having average writing, i least expected bigby. i kinda thought a lot of people agreed with bigby's character being okay.
personally i thought i'd come back on the forums with 30 comments about how kenny is god and i'm wrong and should kill myself.
Did somebody say... Javier Garcia?
I did, yes.
Maybe that is because when his name is mentioned, all hell breaks loose
So if a human being was eaten to death by lions for example, you'd like that too would you?
I honestly love this comment! Is it too much to say I nearly teared up at it's brilliance (I'm a writer myself and I whole-heartedly share your perspective on character development and relationships).
Well, you're not wrong, humans are animals.
If it fit the story...yes.
[removed]
KENNY was NOT the main Character...sadly.
Okay, thanks!
What the FuCK?!
Yeah, I realized that a good while back and the sentiment increased once I realized that Carlos AND Sarah had a lot more to do storywise before Kenny(and Sarita) were implemented and Mr. Shorette took over(and added Jane?).
I dunno, in thicker than water Gabe determinately jeopardizes the mission by creating a rift in the group (if you killed Conrad, which most players did) and creates tension. This would be a great moment in a character’s development, if it was in character. Gabe spends a decent portion of the episode praising Javi until his character does a 180 turn. And in the last episode, again he spends a decent portion of it praising Javi and then leaves with David.
Why use Nick? He isn’t the deus ex machina screw up that Ben is, and he is fairly likeable, in my opinion at least. And their character progressions are very different. Ben is a screw up who only stands up for himself in the end, and Nick redeems himself in the start of ep 2 of season 2 by “sacrificing himself” for Clem, although he doesn’t die. Of course, all of that is missed if you go with Pete. And after all that character development he has a fairly lack luster death (the second one).
People didn't like the way Kate went all flipping floppety but her change of heart was really justified, but people don't realise it. Put yourself in her situation: you want to get away from the killers, but they have been dealt with and you just realised you were the reason for families being killed and lost. You will have the bloods of many people, including children on your hands, so you are going to want to stay to make things right, even if you don't like being in that location. If Kate is alive at the end, she'll be happy to stay in Richmond seeing as those "murderers" who were in the New Frontier are no longer there, just innocents who need help in these tough patches In their lives. So hopefully this'll justify why Kate changed all of a sudden.
The funny thing is, if you were paying attention, that was perfectly in character for Gabe. And yes, that should've been a great moment for more concentrated character development. The problem is that they implemented that scene in the most bidimensional way possible(oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was still playing Season 2) by ignoring your actual relationship with Gabe in favor of causing drama that the episode isn't gonna really develop that much. Add in the fact that Tripp was at his most useless and Clementine was pointlessly tagging along with nothing else to do at that point and you just have a lot of frustrated and confused players wondering "wtf?".
Because Gabe is much closer to Nick than he is to Ben personality-wise. The big difference is the age gap(about 12+ years), not having as crippling a guilt complex and/or being prone to depression, and the lack of actual blood on Gabe's hands(and no, Kate's doesn't count).
Also, Ben standing up for himself was less about him and more about getting Kenny to realize how selfish and dickish he was being since they got to Savannah. Not to mention that his own problem was his self-depreciation that he can be convinced to put aside for Clementine's sake in the end and that only really got as bad as it did because of Kenny and Lilly.
This. Though I definitely get the feeling she might fall into a depression by the next time we see her.
I would've said something myself, but honestly he went off into a completely different tangent that confused the fuck outta me.
Kate or javier?
Kate, of course. Though it would make a little sense if Javier did in certain endings, he doesn't seem like the type of guy to do that.
You said he in there is why, and javier did get a little depressed when Kate die during but shook it off after a while. I guess javier would be able to help cheer Kate up, he probably did that in the 3 days that we skipped.
...What?
I suppose. But keep in mind that not only did David die, but Gabe can too
. So it's very likely she'll be even more prone to feeling bad than she already was.
yeah, I worded that a little shit. Even took me a minute to figure out what I was trying to say. Instead of she, you said he. "But honestly he went off"
if not, she always has Eleanor or someone else while javier does the logical thing and helps clementine find aj in case she is unsuccessful or can't do it alone. 2 people are always better than one, and javier seems to know a thing or two about surviving as well as tracking, seeing as he spent 4 years with Kate tracking the movement of herds.
Yeah, she can be feeling notable but remember... Conrad, if he survived was a bar tender. In other words, a cheap therapist
You make some good points about Nick and Ben but I still dont see how Gabe warming up to Javi in ep 4 and then stabbing him in the back is remaining in character. Gabe truly respected Javi, he wanted to be like him and was constantly trying to impress him. To get attention from the one person he looked up to, but then that all went out the window when he reveals that you killed Conrad in a situation where a man was holding a child hostage, which was Gabe, who you proceed to rescue. Also you can tell Tripp afterwards what happened to Conrad, vaguely, which I did and Tripp seems to just forget that. I just dont think ANF was well written.
Let me explain why Kate's change of mind is irrational. While she is trying to rescue Javi some jerk throws a molotov at her car thus blinding her and causes her to crash. Unfortunately that lets walkers in. This action was not by her choice nor was it preventable. While this is happening TNF is mowing down its own people with gun fire (yes this happens you can see it) there are only two targets Javi and David, but instead of just shooting them before this get crazy NF soldiers begin shooting into the assembled crowd. If my original plan was to get out of this place, I'd be even more set on getting the hell out of there.
Yes, but remember: if Kate wasn't driving that truck in that direction in the first place she wouldn't have been hit by the Molotov. I think this is why she blames herself. If she came from another road, maybe, it could have been preventable.
Successful meaningful character development in my opinion is making us feel for a character without having to put them in high action scenarios with lots of gunshots and explosions, something SEASON ONE did very well.
Even the table scene in Season Two handled some parts well, such as the scene where you have to chose to sit next to your old friend Kenny or your new friend Luke, its small moments like those that can be effective, more effective than shootouts or action scenes.
Focus on the SMALL moments, those are the most memorable.
-Lee
-Clementine
-Kenny
^My obvious picks of the best written characters in the game
-Luke
-Jane
^These two showed potential, but one was killed off, and the other was killed off after she served her purpose to the story, which was the conflict and buildup to the end.
-David
^The only solid character to come out of ANF.
Death is a part of The Walking Dead, since its literally in the name, but stories where all the characters DONT die in the end can be just as meaningful too, if not more, which is why I was pleasantly surprised not everyone died at the end of ANF.
I do think what the comic and show does better than the game is that they have a larger cast and variety of characters that are expanded on over seasons. Truth be told most game characters that were well developed that could hold their own against characters like Rick or Negan have been killed off or shoved out of the story, the only one remaining being Clementine.
The formula of the game seems to be. Clem meets new group, new group dies one by one until the end, just a few left, end.. move on to the next season. Theres no overarching plot connecting characters from previous seasons, Kenny being the only one who got two seasons, there needs to be more of this.
Clementine needs a solid Season 4, best of luck.
True. Funny you should mention Conrad considering I could see her turning to drinking now that she determinately has no one besides Javier to pace herself with.
I'll just link my post here. Read it, learn it, love it!
Pretty much. They clearly have some good ideas and neat concepts for a story; the problem is often skewed priorities when it comes to the implementation and execution of them. Too many cooks in the kitchen also plays a major role in that.
They won't be able to replicate Season 1. They have made so many games sincr then and for me none have even come close to how good that game was
I liked Sam.
She was actually a very kind hearted person. All she meant was to help her family to survive. Even though she fucked up many times. And beautiful girl.
Unfortunately Telltale made her determinant so we will never see her again in a game.
Someone recently commented on a point I made about how there should be multiple endings.
I made a response that may interest you. or not.
If they ever make another game after this, the alternate endings might be limited so it could be brought back to a single plot point. But since this is supposed to be the end, they don't have those restrictions anymore. If they're keeping their word, and this is their final entry, they should go wild with the variance of their endings to make us want to replay this series for years after the season is over.
I get you there. Right now, AJ is more of a plot device than an actual character and I hope this changes in their last installment. I'm more into it because this is what's going to make Clementine feel complete. Just like Lee devoted his life to protecting her because there wasn't much else worth living for, she has devoted her life to protect him because of the same reasons. Everyone else she knew well, like more than just a few days, has either died or abandoned her, so she doesn't have much to keep her tied to this world. The real reason she stays is because there is someone out there that she knows still depends on her. And I'm not talking about whether their heart is still beating or not. Someone with a glimmer of hope, that has not been hardened by the world around them and who has not tried to survive by standing on the bodies of the people they've killed. (Sorry for that last sentence. I've been reading to much of the comic books.
)
You could say that she is just fan service. But thinking about how long the comic books have been going on (Since 2003) and how the main protagonist of that series is still alive, maybe not with all his pieces, but alive, why should Clementine have to die? The comic book's main protagonist has gone through a lot of shit, too, and there has been many times where he thought he has had nothing to live for. ( Damn it. I think my response is completely irrelevant. My brain is too much into the comics for me to make any goddamn sense in the telltale universe.![:\](https://community.telltale.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
)
My main point is I still think that there is more room for Clem to be around. There just needs to be actual story to her instead of her just being "Hey I'm here. Let's kick ass and shit.". Getting AJ back will be a step in the right direction. It will give us the opportunity to see her as a caregiver instead of a zombie-killing Badass. Lee was good at balancing the two, now is time for her to really shine.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE MAKE SEASON 4 CHARACTERS HAVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, JUST LIKE SEASON 1 CHARACTERS! This is what everyone wants in the community, including me. @Alyssa_TTG
In the context of this being a feedback thread, I'll say that bumping the thread is fine in general. But, if you bump the thread after weeks of inactivity - please try to have a better reason as opposed to only posting something that people have already discussed in more detail before.
It's kind of redundant to bump this thread and make everyone check back in, only for them to see a plain comment that doesn't add much else to discussion. You aren't in trouble, but it's just better for discussion if you have a better reason than that to bump a previously inactive thread.
Sorry for bumping an oldish thread but I thought I had something to add.
Fleshing out and making the supporting cast have complex, interesting and intertwining arcs is much more important than giving the main character a super complex arc. I'm absolutely not saying they shouldn't have one, but that the supporting cast should have the real standouts seeing as we are the observes of their arcs.
If we look back to Season One, Lee had a pretty basic redeptive arc, which was fulfilled in the end and was satisfying. The ways he got to his redemption is what is important. It was unique for each player as each player projects themselves onto the main player character, meaning it would be kind of backwards to try to give a rigid arc. The reason Lee's pretty basic arc is given a lot more weight is due to the other characters arcs and how they cross with each other. Clementine's growing up and maturing is what gives Lee's story the power it has. Kenny and Jane's arcs are very fascinating, and as an observer, we appreciate that.
So tl;dr focus on giving the core cast orbiting the main player character complex arcs and development and the rest will fall in line.
Agreed. Season 2 definitely suffered from trying to tell a myth arc with numerous different arcs and backstories, but failed to tie together, complete, or even exposit many of them.
It's one of the reasons I feel characters like Sarah and Gabe are the most wasted.
hello i hope telltale sees this it needs to happen. you know the no response option - well it seems pretty useless and the story progresses automatically so. 2 things 1. how about an option to type in what you want to say ( or even use a microphone) i'd like to see the AI be smart enough to respond to a unscripted word because all options are scripted right now thing 2. what is going on with the operating system it seems to be getting worse and more glitchy starting from new frontier (and what came out before new frontier had glitches too) all the way to the guardians of the galaxy episode 3 the AI bots get frozen so you can't progress further i only discovered this after trying to beat it twice seems like something needs to be updated or something is being done wrong because previous titles had none of theese issues. my idea of true player choice text or (microphone) would make a greater game it would be awesome i'd be hyped. you see the thing is i'd like to say in my own words not scripted why because i see a solution that none of the 4 choices would solve. example word option 1 say be nice word option 2 say be mean word option 3 say be silly word option 4 say nothing custom word option 5 say something confusing or say whatever you want. win win. you are given your options (scripted options) but what if you say a unscripted option how would they respond? of course this would require an AI bot update software engine update it's worth a shot even though all telltale games are scripted they are all good and easy even a kid can pick them up. love getting that easy platinum trophy LOL
That has nothing to do with character development...
Edit: Nevermind. On with your business.
