It's the Walking Dead, a franchise that's pretty much known for pulling no punches. To quote Ramsay Bolton, "If you thought this would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
It's the Walking Dead, a franchise that's pretty much known for pulling no punches. To quote Ramsay Bolton, "If you thought this would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
It's better if they decide what to do with Clementine. People go to this type of discussion every season. I am not against it, if it's written masterfully so why not?
Also what would be the use? If they never intend to tell more of her story? And if she isn't going to the comics? I'd like to know.
I know that. And i know they will put two ending. And one of them will be clem death . Why the make it the last season because they want to end clem story maybe by death way .
I know. But it will be very sad . They want to end clem story maybe there is two choices. And one of them could be clem death and I'm not against it ....it just too hard
It's better if they decide what to do with Clementine. People go to this type of discussion every season. I am not against it, if it's writt… moreen masterfully so why not?
Also what would be the use? If they never intend to tell more of her story? And if she isn't going to the comics? I'd like to know.
That's true, but the Walking Dead isn't one long slide into the abyss either. In the comics, the characters often do succeed. They pay for those wins, but not everything ends in death and despair.
No one's expecting there to be some super happy ending where all the walker's go away and Clem lives in safety and security. But the end of her story doesn't have to be death. Clem has always been searching for family (originally her parents, then a new family, then AJ). The conclusion to her story is simply an end to the search for better or worse.
It's very possible Clem will die, but it's far from inevitable.
It's the Walking Dead, a franchise that's pretty much known for pulling no punches. To quote Ramsay Bolton, "If you thought this would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
Honestly, because I think it will be worse than her living from a story perspective.
It ignores the chance to have a wide range of endings that will make us feel like our choices counted (like Season 2, but without the knowledge they'd be overridden once the new Season came out).
Her death will be compared to Lee's death and probably will not be considered better. Lee's death is a defining moment in the series. It would be impossible not to compare the two. And while possible, I can't see it being more touching than Lee sacrificing himself for Clem.
We developed Lee and Clem's relationship for a whole Season. Even at the very end without the ability to move, Lee tries to help her. If Clem dies by accident or murder, it's just going to feel cheap. And if she sacrifices herself for AJ? It's not going to have the same effect. Clem was a well-developed character by the end of Season 1. Being a baby, there's only so much personality can have. Her sacrifice won't seem as worth it because the characters that are being saved are not equal.
And besides, that story has already been told in Season 1.
Yeah, if her death is told masterfully, I'd get behind the ending. But it's going to be super hard for it to top off Lee's death. And that's high praise for the first Season. Because I just can't see it happening.
And again, it throws away the chance to have different endings to make us feel like our choices matter.
It's better if they decide what to do with Clementine. People go to this type of discussion every season. I am not against it, if it's writt… moreen masterfully so why not?
Also what would be the use? If they never intend to tell more of her story? And if she isn't going to the comics? I'd like to know.
Well most say they changed Luke against Kenny to avoid predictability. A little prediction here and there doesn't have to be a bad thing. If the build up is good and makes sense. To avoid logic in favor for being unpredictable will usually end up in silliness or irrational events taking place.
Guy robs a bank but somehow the cops let him go in some movie because he's the commissioners nephew. It's predictable that they would not but to avoid predictability they go with something that makes no sense to avoid that as a quick hash of an example.
Given the type of world Clem's age then yeah it would be predictable. But so is everyone else's. How is it Clem would escape death when plenty kids her age and mental capacity have already gone? That sound likely that she's that much more badass as a capable child to overcome what most stronger and (supposedly) smarter grownups could not?
Sounds to me folks only want Clementine alive for personal reasons as though she's a real life relative.
It ignores the chance to have a wide range of endings that will make us feel like our choices counted (like Season 2, but without the knowledge they'd be overridden once the new Season came out).
As Clint would say that's the problem right there atleast with me and those like-minded. Why be concerned with further choices beyond this series finale season? Actually every choice starting from the first game should of been building up to this very ultimate point. Not continue further on with more determinate chaos. If Clem lives and they never make another story then it's like why stop the seasons then?
Because there is still more story to tell as long as she's alive. If Lee or Kenny was still living wouldn't most folks still want to know what's up with them? Life= more potential story. Death = A resting finish line and closure to know this is how this character lived, changed and ultimately became before leaving behind their legacy and memories.
I'd be wanting more games if Clem was confirmed still alive but it'd be kind of annoyingly agitating because they won't make more games with the characters fate still open to possibility or basically another unknown fate as though they haven't created enough unknowns as unfinished business already. Got a bit carried away this was a tad longer than I intended.
So... TL;DR to me my perspective......Alive still means a forever unfinished open book of possibilities. Dead means closing the book by putting to rest a great character's saga.
Honestly, because I think it will be worse than her living from a story perspective.
* It ignores the chance to have a wide range of en… moredings that will make us feel like our choices counted (like Season 2, but without the knowledge they'd be overridden once the new Season came out).
* Her death will be compared to Lee's death and probably will not be considered better. Lee's death is a defining moment in the series. It would be impossible not to compare the two. And while possible, I can't see it being more touching than Lee sacrificing himself for Clem.
* We developed Lee and Clem's relationship for a whole Season. Even at the very end without the ability to move, Lee tries to help her. If Clem dies by accident or murder, it's just going to feel cheap. And if she sacrifices herself for AJ? It's not going to have the same effect. Clem was a well-developed character by the end of Season 1. Being a baby, there's only so much personali… [view original content]
Yeah, but it isn’t GoT either, where as soon as people like a character… the axe drops.
Also, TWD is the kind of story where you get a bitter ending because you look back and see all the bad things you had to do to get there. This doesn’t really happen if the main character dies in the end. In other words, it isn’t necessarily an universe where you get the usual sad ending where “the hero must die in the end”; it is more like the one where the hero must live on with himself.
It's the Walking Dead, a franchise that's pretty much known for pulling no punches. To quote Ramsay Bolton, "If you thought this would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
Why be concerned with further choices beyond this series finale season?
I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm saying there is no need to be concerned with further choices. Hence, why we can be delivered a variety of endings. I was saying it can leave with a different feel from Season 2 since we knew our choices - despite them being very different - were going back to the same place.
Actually every choice starting from the first game should of been building up to this very ultimate point.
Not every story is mapped out from the beginning and end. Hell, look at how many times TellTale has changed their plans within a season. That's not a bad thing either. While I think Kenny dying in Season 1 would have been fitting (especially if he saved Ben), I think he served as a strong part of Season 2. This may be a difference of taste. Like I said, I like feeling my choices matter. So, multiple endings are definitely appealing to me.
If Clem lives and they never make another story then it's like why stop the seasons then?
Because Clem's story can be finished. Clem's story since Season 1 has been about growing up (Lee teaching her and her maturing throughout Season 1/taking on more responsibilities and trying out or rejecting adult vices in Season 2/starting to menstruate and taking an interest in Gabe in Season 3) and finding a family (her relationship with Lee and searching for her parents in Season 1/deciding to stick with Kenny or Jane or rejecting them both to take care of AJ alone in Season 2/watching the functioning family of the Garcias and searching for AJ in Season 3). If those come to an end for Clementine, then her story is done.
Otherwise, your point could literally apply to any character in any story and say they must die for their story to truly be over. Hell, "A character must die to finish their story" doesn't even apply to The Walking Dead TellTale games. Javier's story is finished. While there's enough leeway to bring him back into Season 4, Javier doesn't need any more games. His story, the conflict with his brother, his relationship with Kate, Gabe's crossroads between becomign like David or Javier: these are all finished. We don't need more games with him so they can kill him off in order to stop making games about him. They can simply leave him out because we have resolution to his story.
And I get the feeling, "if she's alive, I would want more." I will probably feel that way. Of course, if she dies, I'll still probably want more unless it's absolute crap. But what I want most is a satisfactory conclusion. While I would love a yearly game, I recognize there's only so much they can tell without getting stale or worse. So, even if I don't want Clem's story to end, I admit it needs to.
I just have a hard time seeing Clem dying being better than Lee's death in Season 1. If it is - if I'm amazed by it - I will absolutely support the decision to kill her off. But I see most people and myself comparing it to Lee's death and just feeling that it wasn't good enough. At best, it will be considered a poor attempt to redo what has already been done in Season 1. At worst, it will feel like a bad attempt at emotional manipulation by killing off a character the fans love rather than it being a fitting and natural ending to her story. Either way, it won't make the fans the happy.
Like I said, it's possible to kill her off. But it's going to be very hard when that has already been done so excellently in the series already. What I want most of all, is for a good story. Clem living or dying is irrelevant to that. I just don't think Clem dying will actually lead to a better story.
Got a bit carried away this was a tad longer than I intended.
A habit of mine as you can see. Don't feel bad. :^D
It ignores the chance to have a wide range of endings that will make us feel like our choices counted (like Season 2, but without the knowle… moredge they'd be overridden once the new Season came out).
As Clint would say that's the problem right there atleast with me and those like-minded. Why be concerned with further choices beyond this series finale season? Actually every choice starting from the first game should of been building up to this very ultimate point. Not continue further on with more determinate chaos. If Clem lives and they never make another story then it's like why stop the seasons then?
Because there is still more story to tell as long as she's alive. If Lee or Kenny was still living wouldn't most folks still want to know what's up with them? Life= more potential story. Death = A resting finish line and closure to know this is how this character lived, changed and ultimately became before leaving behind their legacy an… [view original content]
I feel like Clementine dying at the end of the season would be kind of a copout, since they have already done the "main character dies tragically at the end of the season" thing before, personally, I'd actually like to see a tragic ending in a different way, where Clementine ends up in a situation where its her or someone else, like she has to sacrifice someone she has spent alot of time with to save herself and AJ, and it will sort of complete her transformation from scared girl into ruthless survivor, how things tend to go in these stories.
I know people dont like to think of Clementine as a bad person, and she really isnt, but this world changes people, and you can still have to do bad things even if youre a good person, and I know people dont want Clems "innocence" to be trampled anymore, but frankly, I would like to explore more ways of tragedy than just death, like when David and Javier had the falling out, that was great
I mean why should we still get determinate endings for a {series} finale when this is suppose to be it. Only determinate ending I prefer is two or three different deaths for Clem like similar to Lee in case some folks didn't like one (or none but can't please everyone everytime anyhow right?) determinate endings with different choices kind of had more impact when you knew you were going into the next season with what you picked like shoot Lee or leave. Stay with Jane, Kenny or go it alone. Here were at the end of the road. To still have determinate endings atleast those with Clementine alive will still be weird because you can still continue her story especially with being so young and full of potential.
Otherwise, your point could literally apply to any character in any story and say they must die for their story to truly be over.
It can depending on the type of genre and universe. If you have a Looney toons or Lion King type of story, then it's not necessary for characters to die to conclude the story.. because those often end with always happy endings.
Game of Thrones can utilize this or not both are okay because you don't have humanity on the brink of Extinction and while very dark, violent and gory a bit at times doesn't quite strike that desperate survival horror type theme. So they can go either way.
But with Walking Dead leaving characters like that without atleast solving the zombie pandemic far as how to stop it or what happens if all humans become walkers is no real difference from zombie movies that just leave a handful of folks alive forever never to return to what they've done to make it this far the exact purpose Kirkman had with starting the Walking Dead was to tell nearly LIFE LONG stories of LIVING in the zombie apocalypse. Notice those three key words there....
Like marriage I believe these characters tales Ought to continue until death do they part. Especially with everyone else having have died and concluded their efforts, transformations and redeeming themselves.
Walking Dead just doesn't fit well with open endings like other happily ever after stories like the wizard of Oz and Willie Wonka and the chocolate factory. This world that is literally filled with despair, death and destruction should have it's happy moments yes !... But say how all the characters meet their ends because face it Clem might be badass but not immortal. No way Clem out lives Jesus or Michonne I'd think and it's likely they'd pass on as well eventually.
I suppose we just see it differently for the type of story given but I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. Telltale will do what they want as typical anyway. Ha
Why be concerned with further choices beyond this series finale season?
I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm saying there is no need… more to be concerned with further choices. Hence, why we can be delivered a variety of endings. I was saying it can leave with a different feel from Season 2 since we knew our choices - despite them being very different - were going back to the same place.
Actually every choice starting from the first game should of been building up to this very ultimate point.
Not every story is mapped out from the beginning and end. Hell, look at how many times TellTale has changed their plans within a season. That's not a bad thing either. While I think Kenny dying in Season 1 would have been fitting (especially if he saved Ben), I think he served as a strong part of Season 2. This may be a difference of taste. Like I said, I like feeling my choices matter. So, multiple endings are definitely appealing to me.… [view original content]
But with Walking Dead leaving characters like that without at least solving the zombie pandemic far as how to stop it or what happens if all humans become walkers is no real difference from zombie movies that just leave a handful of folks alive forever never to return to what they've done to make it this far the exact purpose Kirkman had with starting the Walking Dead was to tell nearly LIFE LONG stories of LIVING in the zombie apocalypse. Notice those three key words there....
Total disagreement here. Well, I think we've both reached the conclusion that our tastes and beliefs what will make a good ending are different. So, I'm letting most of it go, but I feel the need to address this.
The funny thing is Kirkman has recently said he's working on the end of the Walking Dead. I don't think it will be a "cure has been found" or a everyone dies ending. No. Important characters will be left alive. They will still have stories to tell, but the series will be over.
I just feel a resolution doesn't require death. Hence, why I was satisfied with Javier's story ending in A New Frontier, and I don't need him back just so he can die to ensure he doesn't have more stories to tell.
I suppose we just see it differently for the type of story given but I'm okay with agreeing to disagree.
The funny thing is I think we probably agree on much. Just not this one thing.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
I mean why should we still get determinate endings for a {series} finale when this is suppose to be… more it. Only determinate ending I prefer is two or three different deaths for Clem like similar to Lee in case some folks didn't like one (or none but can't please everyone everytime anyhow right?) determinate endings with different choices kind of had more impact when you knew you were going into the next season with what you picked like shoot Lee or leave. Stay with Jane, Kenny or go it alone. Here were at the end of the road. To still have determinate endings atleast those with Clementine alive will still be weird because you can still continue her story especially with being so young and full of potential.
Otherwise, your point could literally apply to any character in any story and say they must die for their story to truly be over.
It can depending on the type of genre and universe. If yo… [view original content]
Frankly, I would like an ending that doesnt result in Clems death per say, as we have already explored the tragedy of death so much, but what if... now hear me out, I know people dont like their precious Clem to be the villain, but what if, instead of dying, something even more tragic happened to her, like, what if the ending would be something like, Clementine sacrificing someone to allow herself and maybe AJ to survive? I feel like it would be a nice "completion" of her transformation so to speak, like, you meet some person at the start of the season, who you get really close with, and in the end you sacrifice that person so you yourself can live, and if people are too up in arms about an ending like that, make it a choice, allow the player to sacrifice someone else to let Clem live? or sacrifice Clem? your move player
Well most say they changed Luke against Kenny to avoid predictability. A little prediction here and there doesn't have to be a bad thing. If… more the build up is good and makes sense. To avoid logic in favor for being unpredictable will usually end up in silliness or irrational events taking place.
Guy robs a bank but somehow the cops let him go in some movie because he's the commissioners nephew. It's predictable that they would not but to avoid predictability they go with something that makes no sense to avoid that as a quick hash of an example.
Given the type of world Clem's age then yeah it would be predictable. But so is everyone else's. How is it Clem would escape death when plenty kids her age and mental capacity have already gone? That sound likely that she's that much more badass as a capable child to overcome what most stronger and (supposedly) smarter grownups could not?
Sounds to me folks only want Clementine alive for personal reasons as though she's a real life relative.
As long as Clem lives people will always hope for a new season (Even if it's the last one apparently), you can't just end a Walking Dead story with the main character alive because people will wonder what happens next, how they evolve, how they survive.
My opinion, they should kill her just so they can be done with TWD for good
I think something like that could work really well if it's a choice. It'd essentially be a defining moment for Clementine's path and determine whether like Lee, she's willing to sacrifice herself to do the right thing and save the person's life but die in the process, or allow a more survivalist, yet ruthless form of ideology take over and to let someone die to save herself. It'd show the importance and significance of season 1's ending, whilst allowing the player to actually change Clementine as a character and to bring about a decent conclusion to her story.
I feel like Clementine dying at the end of the season would be kind of a copout, since they have already done the "main character dies tragi… morecally at the end of the season" thing before, personally, I'd actually like to see a tragic ending in a different way, where Clementine ends up in a situation where its her or someone else, like she has to sacrifice someone she has spent alot of time with to save herself and AJ, and it will sort of complete her transformation from scared girl into ruthless survivor, how things tend to go in these stories.
I know people dont like to think of Clementine as a bad person, and she really isnt, but this world changes people, and you can still have to do bad things even if youre a good person, and I know people dont want Clems "innocence" to be trampled anymore, but frankly, I would like to explore more ways of tragedy than just death, like when David and Javier had the falling out, that was great
But how would this decision be of any necessity? The most obvious answer is the threat of walkers with only one person being able to escape, but getting devoured would be such a disappointing death for Clem, completely disproportionate to the amount of time and effort that has gone into her character and thus worse than the "Lee rip-off" scenario people complained about on the Lemme Tell You Something thread.
The irony is that, while I felt that her dying would be an effective conclusion to the series, as I have made clear these past few days, I never actually settled on a fitting death for her. Or rather, I couldn't think of one.
I feel like Clementine dying at the end of the season would be kind of a copout, since they have already done the "main character dies tragi… morecally at the end of the season" thing before, personally, I'd actually like to see a tragic ending in a different way, where Clementine ends up in a situation where its her or someone else, like she has to sacrifice someone she has spent alot of time with to save herself and AJ, and it will sort of complete her transformation from scared girl into ruthless survivor, how things tend to go in these stories.
I know people dont like to think of Clementine as a bad person, and she really isnt, but this world changes people, and you can still have to do bad things even if youre a good person, and I know people dont want Clems "innocence" to be trampled anymore, but frankly, I would like to explore more ways of tragedy than just death, like when David and Javier had the falling out, that was great
They shouldn't kill her off simply because they already killed off a main character in S1. They'll just be rehashing Lee's death in S1 so Clementine's death wouldn't feel special like Lee's. It would also make the other seasons pointless and make new players not want to play S1 or S2 since everyone dies, which means less money for Telltale.
And it will make Lee's death meaningless. Clementine doesn't have to die for her story for end. Look at Javier. His story is done but he's still alive in the end. Since it's the Final Season, it means it's the FINAL SEASON, even if fans wanted another season, it's not gonna happen with Clementine.
I also feel like it would be a great way to aknowledge how far down the shitter the world has come, when Lee was around, being self sacrificing and kind was a smart move, since it won over the compassion of other people, but this far in, most of the people still alive arent the compassionate ones, so its a very interesting dilemma to put up, how far is too far? especially since morality changes, and in some cases, even the worst decision can seem, or may even BE the best choice
I think something like that could work really well if it's a choice. It'd essentially be a defining moment for Clementine's path and determi… morene whether like Lee, she's willing to sacrifice herself to do the right thing and save the person's life but die in the process, or allow a more survivalist, yet ruthless form of ideology take over and to let someone die to save herself. It'd show the importance and significance of season 1's ending, whilst allowing the player to actually change Clementine as a character and to bring about a decent conclusion to her story.
I dont know how it would work exactly, but I do think that season 4 would do well to focus on the dilemma of how much morality you should hold onto, when society doesnt exist anymore, morality is in many cases a restraint we put on ourselves to work as a society, because without morality and laws, society cant work, so I think its a very interesting proposition, should you hold onto your morality in a case like this? in some cases it can be beneficial to do so, especially when around people that can help you who value that stuff, but if its your life or someone elses, what do you do when the world has gone to shit? there is no hope for salvation, no hope for redemption, how do you react to such situations, knowing that there is noone to judge you, almost everyone has done the same, and the people who havent are likely dead.
Cant you still be a good person, even though you have done terrible things out of necessity? I think its very interesting, and I hope season 4 tackles any of these things, and frankly, I dont think in any way, that Clementine dying will benefit the story, the story has been about Clementines journey from scared girl to survivor, maybe that journey aint over? maybe she will turn into something different yet again? something some might consider worse, terrible, tragic, I definitely dont think that there is any way to make her death a satisfying conclusion, especially since I feel they will be retreading alot of ground that was already covered in Lees death
But how would this decision be of any necessity? The most obvious answer is the threat of walkers with only one person being able to escape,… more but getting devoured would be such a disappointing death for Clem, completely disproportionate to the amount of time and effort that has gone into her character and thus worse than the "Lee rip-off" scenario people complained about on the Lemme Tell You Something thread.
The irony is that, while I felt that her dying would be an effective conclusion to the series, as I have made clear these past few days, I never actually settled on a fitting death for her. Or rather, I couldn't think of one.
Majority of people/gamers don't care about this ruined character anymore.
The choice stats for A New Frontier would heavily disagree with you, also, she isnt ruined just because she is not the same, she cant stay innocent forever you know, and I am not gonna pretend that there wasnt some stupid shit that was out of character for her (such as shooting that guy (Eli?) at Prescott), but to me, and Im sure other people feel the same way, alot of her in ANF was just natural evolution, you dont live long if you stay the good guy
Majority of people/gamers don't care about this ruined character anymore.
Maybe putting out of her misery already from the 16 writers mig… moreht actually inspire someone to do a better alt. story/game.
Also hoping that AJ gets the Lilly/Christa/Molly treatment.
Javier is another example too. Since he's alive it's likely he will atleast make a cameo appearance in the final season. But since I guess I didn't care all that much about Javier that I wouldn't mind if he did or did not come back alive or dead. Perhaps that's the culprit whether you are interested in the character or not. I care about Clementine's life to the point that it'd bother me that she's still alive but they have stopped telling her story from the games or comic. Death is always the hardest to deal with and accept but can be accepted given time. Likewise If they left Kenny alive and stopped including him in the games I'd be annoyed too. Jane was another character I didn't care that much about so maybe we can agree that depending on the characters involved and your attachment with them in the future endings they can be left alive and not have further story told about them.
But with Walking Dead leaving characters like that without at least solving the zombie pandemic far as how to stop it or what happens if all… more humans become walkers is no real difference from zombie movies that just leave a handful of folks alive forever never to return to what they've done to make it this far the exact purpose Kirkman had with starting the Walking Dead was to tell nearly LIFE LONG stories of LIVING in the zombie apocalypse. Notice those three key words there....
Total disagreement here. Well, I think we've both reached the conclusion that our tastes and beliefs what will make a good ending are different. So, I'm letting most of it go, but I feel the need to address this.
The funny thing is Kirkman has recently said he's working on the end of the Walking Dead. I don't think it will be a "cure has been found" or a everyone dies ending. No. Important characters will be left alive. They will still have stories to tell, … [view original content]
She already kind of gave me a bad taste of that when she killed that guy Eli over a few dud bullets then tried to be cover her own ass immediately to avoid the consequences afterwards instead of showing any kind of remorse for ending someone's life in a trivial way.
I think if Telltale games hadn't cut out so much decent content they'd possibly be close to trying to hang Javi and Clem for shooting that dude and be not having a good reason which could of made for good friction between some of the Prescott people and Javi and Clem. But nope in spite of what happened their off the hook and get taken to the junk yard and the story is rushed along. They also shouldn't have cut out Clementine saying Mariana will have to settle for half if Javier demands that Clem puts back the candy bar when she's "taking payment" really called robbing him. That would of been funny. But the ruined New Frontier by cutting out everything nice and rewriting the story like a couple weeks before release.
Frankly, I would like an ending that doesnt result in Clems death per say, as we have already explored the tragedy of death so much, but wha… moret if... now hear me out, I know people dont like their precious Clem to be the villain, but what if, instead of dying, something even more tragic happened to her, like, what if the ending would be something like, Clementine sacrificing someone to allow herself and maybe AJ to survive? I feel like it would be a nice "completion" of her transformation so to speak, like, you meet some person at the start of the season, who you get really close with, and in the end you sacrifice that person so you yourself can live, and if people are too up in arms about an ending like that, make it a choice, allow the player to sacrifice someone else to let Clem live? or sacrifice Clem? your move player
Holy shit when will people get that she didn't mean to shoot Eli ? She assumed all of the bullets were bad (Stupid anyway since they could be mixed with good ones, as it was the case) so she tried to make a point and demonstrate it to the guy. She didn't just put the gun to the guy's head and pulled the trigger just because she was bored
Majority of people/gamers don't care about this ruined character anymore.
The choice stats for A New Frontier would heavily disagree… more with you, also, she isnt ruined just because she is not the same, she cant stay innocent forever you know, and I am not gonna pretend that there wasnt some stupid shit that was out of character for her (such as shooting that guy (Eli?) at Prescott), but to me, and Im sure other people feel the same way, alot of her in ANF was just natural evolution, you dont live long if you stay the good guy
As long as Clem lives people will always hope for a new season (Even if it's the last one apparently), you can't just end a Walking Dead sto… morery with the main character alive because people will wonder what happens next, how they evolve, how they survive.
My opinion, they should kill her just so they can be done with TWD for good
I also wanna add that it'll make the past seasons worthless, making every character from S1 & S2 die. It'll also make Lee's sacrifice meaningless.
Just because a character's story is ending, it doesn't mean they have to die. It's actually a pretty poor excuse to kill her off. Not to mention it'll be financial Suicide for Telltale. If every character from S1 and S2 die, what's the point of playing it?
I dont know how it would work exactly, but I do think that season 4 would do well to focus on the dilemma of how much morality you should ho… moreld onto, when society doesnt exist anymore, morality is in many cases a restraint we put on ourselves to work as a society, because without morality and laws, society cant work, so I think its a very interesting proposition, should you hold onto your morality in a case like this? in some cases it can be beneficial to do so, especially when around people that can help you who value that stuff, but if its your life or someone elses, what do you do when the world has gone to shit? there is no hope for salvation, no hope for redemption, how do you react to such situations, knowing that there is noone to judge you, almost everyone has done the same, and the people who havent are likely dead.
Cant you still be a good person, even though you have done terrible things out of necessity? I think its very interes… [view original content]
I never actually settled on a fitting death for her
I believe there is no "fitting" death for her. She can't be devoured by walkers because that'll just be stupid and a waste to her character. She can't sacrifice herself to save AJ because they pulled that in S1 with Lee and Clem. She can't sacrifice herself for her group because it won't fit her character.
No matter how she dies, it won't give us the same impact and emotion Lee's death gave us. So her dying is a bad idea.
But how would this decision be of any necessity? The most obvious answer is the threat of walkers with only one person being able to escape,… more but getting devoured would be such a disappointing death for Clem, completely disproportionate to the amount of time and effort that has gone into her character and thus worse than the "Lee rip-off" scenario people complained about on the Lemme Tell You Something thread.
The irony is that, while I felt that her dying would be an effective conclusion to the series, as I have made clear these past few days, I never actually settled on a fitting death for her. Or rather, I couldn't think of one.
She has to die, she deserves to die! preferably the same way Lee died, sacrificing her life to save somebody else (AJ) so she can know how it feels!
I hope she gets a painful and agonizing death, she needs to pay for her mistakes. Clementine is the main source of Lee getting bit and people doesnt give a f%#k anymore.
She betrayed her own group, left the mansion voluntarely and abandoned the guy who cared for her and saved her so many times for a guy she never met or saw.
Now, if it were Ben, Duck or Sarah who had done that, they would've been abused for being idiots, but Clementine can get away with it?
Clementine receives more credit than she deserves.
She has to die, she deserves to die! preferably the same way Lee died, sacrificing her life to save somebody else (AJ) so she can know how i… moret feels!
I hope she gets a painful and agonizing death, she needs to pay for her mistakes. Clementine is the main source of Lee getting bit and people doesnt give a f%#k anymore.
She betrayed her own group, left the mansion voluntarely and abandoned the guy who cared for her and saved her so many times for a guy she never met or saw.
Now, if it were Ben, Duck or Sarah who had done that, they would've been abused for being idiots, but Clementine can get away with it?
Clementine receives more credit than she deserves.
Yeah... i assumed you would have thought my comment it's "funny", i dont think anyone would take it seriously but its the thruth, i really hope she dies, she is the character i hate the most in the entire franchise.
And to think that i used to like her character, urgh! disgusting.
Well, not you specifically, but I recall seeing comments to that effect in the past and therefore expected similar posts to be made here.
And because it's funny, that's why!
Comments
It's the Walking Dead, a franchise that's pretty much known for pulling no punches. To quote Ramsay Bolton, "If you thought this would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
Like that ending in Ties that Bind Part I
Or... No Time Left.
It's better if they decide what to do with Clementine. People go to this type of discussion every season. I am not against it, if it's written masterfully so why not?
Also what would be the use? If they never intend to tell more of her story? And if she isn't going to the comics? I'd like to know.
I know that. And i know they will put two ending. And one of them will be clem death . Why the make it the last season because they want to end clem story maybe by death way .
I know. But it will be very sad . They want to end clem story maybe there is two choices. And one of them could be clem death and I'm not against it ....it just too hard
That's true, but the Walking Dead isn't one long slide into the abyss either. In the comics, the characters often do succeed. They pay for those wins, but not everything ends in death and despair.
No one's expecting there to be some super happy ending where all the walker's go away and Clem lives in safety and security. But the end of her story doesn't have to be death. Clem has always been searching for family (originally her parents, then a new family, then AJ). The conclusion to her story is simply an end to the search for better or worse.
It's very possible Clem will die, but it's far from inevitable.
Honestly, because I think it will be worse than her living from a story perspective.
It ignores the chance to have a wide range of endings that will make us feel like our choices counted (like Season 2, but without the knowledge they'd be overridden once the new Season came out).
Her death will be compared to Lee's death and probably will not be considered better. Lee's death is a defining moment in the series. It would be impossible not to compare the two. And while possible, I can't see it being more touching than Lee sacrificing himself for Clem.
We developed Lee and Clem's relationship for a whole Season. Even at the very end without the ability to move, Lee tries to help her. If Clem dies by accident or murder, it's just going to feel cheap. And if she sacrifices herself for AJ? It's not going to have the same effect. Clem was a well-developed character by the end of Season 1. Being a baby, there's only so much personality can have. Her sacrifice won't seem as worth it because the characters that are being saved are not equal.
And besides, that story has already been told in Season 1.
Yeah, if her death is told masterfully, I'd get behind the ending. But it's going to be super hard for it to top off Lee's death. And that's high praise for the first Season. Because I just can't see it happening.
And again, it throws away the chance to have different endings to make us feel like our choices matter.
I'm fine as long as her dying is determinant.
Clementine dying will be 100% predictable.
Well most say they changed Luke against Kenny to avoid predictability. A little prediction here and there doesn't have to be a bad thing. If the build up is good and makes sense. To avoid logic in favor for being unpredictable will usually end up in silliness or irrational events taking place.
Guy robs a bank but somehow the cops let him go in some movie because he's the commissioners nephew. It's predictable that they would not but to avoid predictability they go with something that makes no sense to avoid that as a quick hash of an example.
Given the type of world Clem's age then yeah it would be predictable. But so is everyone else's. How is it Clem would escape death when plenty kids her age and mental capacity have already gone? That sound likely that she's that much more badass as a capable child to overcome what most stronger and (supposedly) smarter grownups could not?
Sounds to me folks only want Clementine alive for personal reasons as though she's a real life relative.
As Clint would say that's the problem right there atleast with me and those like-minded. Why be concerned with further choices beyond this series finale season? Actually every choice starting from the first game should of been building up to this very ultimate point. Not continue further on with more determinate chaos. If Clem lives and they never make another story then it's like why stop the seasons then?
Because there is still more story to tell as long as she's alive. If Lee or Kenny was still living wouldn't most folks still want to know what's up with them? Life= more potential story. Death = A resting finish line and closure to know this is how this character lived, changed and ultimately became before leaving behind their legacy and memories.
I'd be wanting more games if Clem was confirmed still alive but it'd be kind of annoyingly agitating because they won't make more games with the characters fate still open to possibility or basically another unknown fate as though they haven't created enough unknowns as unfinished business already. Got a bit carried away this was a tad longer than I intended.
So... TL;DR to me my perspective......Alive still means a forever unfinished open book of possibilities. Dead means closing the book by putting to rest a great character's saga.
Yeah, but it isn’t GoT either, where as soon as people like a character… the axe drops.
Also, TWD is the kind of story where you get a bitter ending because you look back and see all the bad things you had to do to get there. This doesn’t really happen if the main character dies in the end. In other words, it isn’t necessarily an universe where you get the usual sad ending where “the hero must die in the end”; it is more like the one where the hero must live on with himself.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm saying there is no need to be concerned with further choices. Hence, why we can be delivered a variety of endings. I was saying it can leave with a different feel from Season 2 since we knew our choices - despite them being very different - were going back to the same place.
Not every story is mapped out from the beginning and end. Hell, look at how many times TellTale has changed their plans within a season. That's not a bad thing either. While I think Kenny dying in Season 1 would have been fitting (especially if he saved Ben), I think he served as a strong part of Season 2. This may be a difference of taste. Like I said, I like feeling my choices matter. So, multiple endings are definitely appealing to me.
Because Clem's story can be finished. Clem's story since Season 1 has been about growing up (Lee teaching her and her maturing throughout Season 1/taking on more responsibilities and trying out or rejecting adult vices in Season 2/starting to menstruate and taking an interest in Gabe in Season 3) and finding a family (her relationship with Lee and searching for her parents in Season 1/deciding to stick with Kenny or Jane or rejecting them both to take care of AJ alone in Season 2/watching the functioning family of the Garcias and searching for AJ in Season 3). If those come to an end for Clementine, then her story is done.
Otherwise, your point could literally apply to any character in any story and say they must die for their story to truly be over. Hell, "A character must die to finish their story" doesn't even apply to The Walking Dead TellTale games. Javier's story is finished. While there's enough leeway to bring him back into Season 4, Javier doesn't need any more games. His story, the conflict with his brother, his relationship with Kate, Gabe's crossroads between becomign like David or Javier: these are all finished. We don't need more games with him so they can kill him off in order to stop making games about him. They can simply leave him out because we have resolution to his story.
And I get the feeling, "if she's alive, I would want more." I will probably feel that way. Of course, if she dies, I'll still probably want more unless it's absolute crap. But what I want most is a satisfactory conclusion. While I would love a yearly game, I recognize there's only so much they can tell without getting stale or worse. So, even if I don't want Clem's story to end, I admit it needs to.
I just have a hard time seeing Clem dying being better than Lee's death in Season 1. If it is - if I'm amazed by it - I will absolutely support the decision to kill her off. But I see most people and myself comparing it to Lee's death and just feeling that it wasn't good enough. At best, it will be considered a poor attempt to redo what has already been done in Season 1. At worst, it will feel like a bad attempt at emotional manipulation by killing off a character the fans love rather than it being a fitting and natural ending to her story. Either way, it won't make the fans the happy.
Like I said, it's possible to kill her off. But it's going to be very hard when that has already been done so excellently in the series already. What I want most of all, is for a good story. Clem living or dying is irrelevant to that. I just don't think Clem dying will actually lead to a better story.
A habit of mine as you can see. Don't feel bad. :^D
Nah fam, Clem dying would be emotional and I like crying myself to sleep.
I feel like Clementine dying at the end of the season would be kind of a copout, since they have already done the "main character dies tragically at the end of the season" thing before, personally, I'd actually like to see a tragic ending in a different way, where Clementine ends up in a situation where its her or someone else, like she has to sacrifice someone she has spent alot of time with to save herself and AJ, and it will sort of complete her transformation from scared girl into ruthless survivor, how things tend to go in these stories.
I know people dont like to think of Clementine as a bad person, and she really isnt, but this world changes people, and you can still have to do bad things even if youre a good person, and I know people dont want Clems "innocence" to be trampled anymore, but frankly, I would like to explore more ways of tragedy than just death, like when David and Javier had the falling out, that was great
I mean why should we still get determinate endings for a {series} finale when this is suppose to be it. Only determinate ending I prefer is two or three different deaths for Clem like similar to Lee in case some folks didn't like one (or none but can't please everyone everytime anyhow right?) determinate endings with different choices kind of had more impact when you knew you were going into the next season with what you picked like shoot Lee or leave. Stay with Jane, Kenny or go it alone. Here were at the end of the road. To still have determinate endings atleast those with Clementine alive will still be weird because you can still continue her story especially with being so young and full of potential.
It can depending on the type of genre and universe. If you have a Looney toons or Lion King type of story, then it's not necessary for characters to die to conclude the story.. because those often end with always happy endings.
Game of Thrones can utilize this or not both are okay because you don't have humanity on the brink of Extinction and while very dark, violent and gory a bit at times doesn't quite strike that desperate survival horror type theme. So they can go either way.
But with Walking Dead leaving characters like that without atleast solving the zombie pandemic far as how to stop it or what happens if all humans become walkers is no real difference from zombie movies that just leave a handful of folks alive forever never to return to what they've done to make it this far the exact purpose Kirkman had with starting the Walking Dead was to tell nearly LIFE LONG stories of LIVING in the zombie apocalypse. Notice those three key words there....
Like marriage I believe these characters tales Ought to continue until death do they part. Especially with everyone else having have died and concluded their efforts, transformations and redeeming themselves.
Walking Dead just doesn't fit well with open endings like other happily ever after stories like the wizard of Oz and Willie Wonka and the chocolate factory. This world that is literally filled with despair, death and destruction should have it's happy moments yes !... But say how all the characters meet their ends because face it Clem might be badass but not immortal. No way Clem out lives Jesus or Michonne I'd think and it's likely they'd pass on as well eventually.
I suppose we just see it differently for the type of story given but I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. Telltale will do what they want as typical anyway. Ha
Total disagreement here. Well, I think we've both reached the conclusion that our tastes and beliefs what will make a good ending are different. So, I'm letting most of it go, but I feel the need to address this.
The funny thing is Kirkman has recently said he's working on the end of the Walking Dead. I don't think it will be a "cure has been found" or a everyone dies ending. No. Important characters will be left alive. They will still have stories to tell, but the series will be over.
I just feel a resolution doesn't require death. Hence, why I was satisfied with Javier's story ending in A New Frontier, and I don't need him back just so he can die to ensure he doesn't have more stories to tell.
The funny thing is I think we probably agree on much. Just not this one thing.
Frankly, I would like an ending that doesnt result in Clems death per say, as we have already explored the tragedy of death so much, but what if... now hear me out, I know people dont like their precious Clem to be the villain, but what if, instead of dying, something even more tragic happened to her, like, what if the ending would be something like, Clementine sacrificing someone to allow herself and maybe AJ to survive? I feel like it would be a nice "completion" of her transformation so to speak, like, you meet some person at the start of the season, who you get really close with, and in the end you sacrifice that person so you yourself can live, and if people are too up in arms about an ending like that, make it a choice, allow the player to sacrifice someone else to let Clem live? or sacrifice Clem? your move player
As long as Clem lives people will always hope for a new season (Even if it's the last one apparently), you can't just end a Walking Dead story with the main character alive because people will wonder what happens next, how they evolve, how they survive.
My opinion, they should kill her just so they can be done with TWD for good
I think something like that could work really well if it's a choice. It'd essentially be a defining moment for Clementine's path and determine whether like Lee, she's willing to sacrifice herself to do the right thing and save the person's life but die in the process, or allow a more survivalist, yet ruthless form of ideology take over and to let someone die to save herself. It'd show the importance and significance of season 1's ending, whilst allowing the player to actually change Clementine as a character and to bring about a decent conclusion to her story.
Majority of people/gamers don't care about this ruined character anymore.
Maybe putting out of her misery already from the 16 writers might actually inspire someone to do a better alt. story/game.
Also hoping that AJ gets the Lilly/Christa/Molly treatment.
But how would this decision be of any necessity? The most obvious answer is the threat of walkers with only one person being able to escape, but getting devoured would be such a disappointing death for Clem, completely disproportionate to the amount of time and effort that has gone into her character and thus worse than the "Lee rip-off" scenario people complained about on the Lemme Tell You Something thread.
The irony is that, while I felt that her dying would be an effective conclusion to the series, as I have made clear these past few days, I never actually settled on a fitting death for her. Or rather, I couldn't think of one.
They shouldn't kill her off simply because they already killed off a main character in S1. They'll just be rehashing Lee's death in S1 so Clementine's death wouldn't feel special like Lee's. It would also make the other seasons pointless and make new players not want to play S1 or S2 since everyone dies, which means less money for Telltale.
And it will make Lee's death meaningless. Clementine doesn't have to die for her story for end. Look at Javier. His story is done but he's still alive in the end. Since it's the Final Season, it means it's the FINAL SEASON, even if fans wanted another season, it's not gonna happen with Clementine.
I also feel like it would be a great way to aknowledge how far down the shitter the world has come, when Lee was around, being self sacrificing and kind was a smart move, since it won over the compassion of other people, but this far in, most of the people still alive arent the compassionate ones, so its a very interesting dilemma to put up, how far is too far? especially since morality changes, and in some cases, even the worst decision can seem, or may even BE the best choice
I dont know how it would work exactly, but I do think that season 4 would do well to focus on the dilemma of how much morality you should hold onto, when society doesnt exist anymore, morality is in many cases a restraint we put on ourselves to work as a society, because without morality and laws, society cant work, so I think its a very interesting proposition, should you hold onto your morality in a case like this? in some cases it can be beneficial to do so, especially when around people that can help you who value that stuff, but if its your life or someone elses, what do you do when the world has gone to shit? there is no hope for salvation, no hope for redemption, how do you react to such situations, knowing that there is noone to judge you, almost everyone has done the same, and the people who havent are likely dead.
Cant you still be a good person, even though you have done terrible things out of necessity? I think its very interesting, and I hope season 4 tackles any of these things, and frankly, I dont think in any way, that Clementine dying will benefit the story, the story has been about Clementines journey from scared girl to survivor, maybe that journey aint over? maybe she will turn into something different yet again? something some might consider worse, terrible, tragic, I definitely dont think that there is any way to make her death a satisfying conclusion, especially since I feel they will be retreading alot of ground that was already covered in Lees death
The choice stats for A New Frontier would heavily disagree with you, also, she isnt ruined just because she is not the same, she cant stay innocent forever you know, and I am not gonna pretend that there wasnt some stupid shit that was out of character for her (such as shooting that guy (Eli?) at Prescott), but to me, and Im sure other people feel the same way, alot of her in ANF was just natural evolution, you dont live long if you stay the good guy
Javier is another example too. Since he's alive it's likely he will atleast make a cameo appearance in the final season. But since I guess I didn't care all that much about Javier that I wouldn't mind if he did or did not come back alive or dead. Perhaps that's the culprit whether you are interested in the character or not. I care about Clementine's life to the point that it'd bother me that she's still alive but they have stopped telling her story from the games or comic. Death is always the hardest to deal with and accept but can be accepted given time. Likewise If they left Kenny alive and stopped including him in the games I'd be annoyed too. Jane was another character I didn't care that much about so maybe we can agree that depending on the characters involved and your attachment with them in the future endings they can be left alive and not have further story told about them.
And that we both liked Kenny.
She already kind of gave me a bad taste of that when she killed that guy Eli over a few dud bullets then tried to be cover her own ass immediately to avoid the consequences afterwards instead of showing any kind of remorse for ending someone's life in a trivial way.
I think if Telltale games hadn't cut out so much decent content they'd possibly be close to trying to hang Javi and Clem for shooting that dude and be not having a good reason which could of made for good friction between some of the Prescott people and Javi and Clem. But nope in spite of what happened their off the hook and get taken to the junk yard and the story is rushed along. They also shouldn't have cut out Clementine saying Mariana will have to settle for half if Javier demands that Clem puts back the candy bar when she's "taking payment" really called robbing him. That would of been funny. But the ruined New Frontier by cutting out everything nice and rewriting the story like a couple weeks before release.
I think it would be a little too predictable since it is the final season. I think it’s more likely for AJ to die.
Holy shit when will people get that she didn't mean to shoot Eli ? She assumed all of the bullets were bad (Stupid anyway since they could be mixed with good ones, as it was the case) so she tried to make a point and demonstrate it to the guy. She didn't just put the gun to the guy's head and pulled the trigger just because she was bored
Clem dying would be a cliche but Telltale can be unpredictable sometimes. Lets see and wait where this is goes.
I also wanna add that it'll make the past seasons worthless, making every character from S1 & S2 die. It'll also make Lee's sacrifice meaningless.
Just because a character's story is ending, it doesn't mean they have to die. It's actually a pretty poor excuse to kill her off. Not to mention it'll be financial Suicide for Telltale. If every character from S1 and S2 die, what's the point of playing it?
I believe there is no "fitting" death for her. She can't be devoured by walkers because that'll just be stupid and a waste to her character. She can't sacrifice herself to save AJ because they pulled that in S1 with Lee and Clem. She can't sacrifice herself for her group because it won't fit her character.
No matter how she dies, it won't give us the same impact and emotion Lee's death gave us. So her dying is a bad idea.
She has to die, she deserves to die! preferably the same way Lee died, sacrificing her life to save somebody else (AJ) so she can know how it feels!
I hope she gets a painful and agonizing death, she needs to pay for her mistakes. Clementine is the main source of Lee getting bit and people doesnt give a f%#k anymore.
She betrayed her own group, left the mansion voluntarely and abandoned the guy who cared for her and saved her so many times for a guy she never met or saw.
Now, if it were Ben, Duck or Sarah who had done that, they would've been abused for being idiots, but Clementine can get away with it?
Clementine receives more credit than she deserves.
Dammit, I was waitin on it.
I took 3 days, but it's finally here.
Waiting my comment? why?
Well, not you specifically, but I recall seeing comments to that effect in the past and therefore expected similar posts to be made here.
And because it's funny, that's why!
Yeah... i assumed you would have thought my comment it's "funny", i dont think anyone would take it seriously but its the thruth, i really hope she dies, she is the character i hate the most in the entire franchise.
And to think that i used to like her character, urgh! disgusting.