Do you think Javier blames himself?
ANF doesn't really seem to bring up the options of whether (in the long-term) Javier blames himself for the events of Season 3. Now, a lot of you could say that Javier is to blame, but at best I think he's partially to blame for this situation which was caused by miscommunication (ex: Max), greed/manipulation (ex: Joan) and overall just bloodlust (ex: Badger).
However just rewatching playthroughs of the season, almost everyone blames Javi alone for what is going on. Conrad blames Javier for the downfall of Prescott. Javier is blamed by Eleanor for the downfall of Richmond (blowing a hole in the wall), and even other people in Richmond (ex: Rufus' wife who holds a gun to Javi in Episode 5) blame Javier. I think even other characters like David do so and Gabe even throws Javier under the bus when it comes to saving Conrad.
Honestly, I have no idea why so many people feel the need to blame almost every problem in Javier when at best he's partially at fault. Like seriously? The hole in the wall was Javier's fault?
How about Eleanor giving up Javier and the crew when they were going to rescue David and leave?
How about Joan manipulating the community and its people to the point of having a public execution?
How about David (assuming Javier doesn't shoot Joan) just going wild and causing a shootout?
How about Kate who was driving the truck (even though yes she didn't know what was going on) or the guy who thought it was a good idea to throw a Molotov on the car in the first place?
But regardless, do you think after all the blame and all the things going on in such a short span of time that Javier is going through some horrible self loathing or in your game at the very least, did you choose for Javi to blame things on himself?
I'm just curious as to what people chose and what people think.
It would be interesting to explore - even though let's be honest, characters who suffer from signs of mental illnesses or trauma (not the actual mental illness themselves since I don't believe we've ever met a character who has been properly diagnosed with a mental illness so that's an important distinction to make), such as Sarah, Nick, Ben, and even Jaime (Jane's sister) are all branded as "helpless" or "useless" characters who make no important contribution to the plot other than to die and be a symbol of what Clementine should not be, which is pretty disheartening.
We never really see a character seriously overcome such things as depression or self loathing (other than perhaps those who go through heavy bouts of grief such as Clementine, Christa, and so on), and I highly doubt we'll see Javi again (in Season 4 that is, unless he's a possible ending), but I'm always curious to think about characters and how their choices (even in dialogue) could reflect a character's feelings or general overview of a situation.
Comments
Javier did blame himself for Marianas death and bunch of other stuff. Its a classic Cliché where the main character always blames himself for some action that for example resulted in death.
I don't know about you but Javi seemed pretty happy at the end of the game.
True but seeming happy and being happy are two very different things. It's just food for thought over Javier's true feelings over the situation of so much chaos and loss in the span of less than a week (especially considering he has been going seemingly well with Mariana, Gabe, and Kate for 4 years).
I think it is just guilt.That Javi thinks that he is the one responsible for all of it even though like you said it was due to bloodlust miscommunication and greed. I agree with your points friend! You made very good points!
To be honest Yes I did choose the option for Javi to say "blame me" But not because he deserved it. I just wanted Javi to be someone that actually cared and wanted to help and acknowledge his mistakes and try to become a better person. I am not sure if I explained all that clearly if I didn't then I am sorry
Yeah I agree, but its also important to note that the writing was quite bad and it was quite hard to tell how the characters actually feel. Javi was sad when Mariana died, but she was mentioned only few times and to me it felt like Javi did not really care in the end.
The last scene you see Javi is him smiling and waving at Clem leaving. That made me feel like he forgot about everything even though Mariana died like a week ago
Like in Episode 2 Flashback with Kate I told her she could blame me so to help her. That may not have to do with acknowledging his mistakes but I am not sure how to explain why I picked blame me options but I didn't pick them because I thought that Javi deserved the blame.. If that makes sense
Well that's partially due Javier's calmer, more laidback nature compared to most and the idea that we're supposed to see Clementine as a downplayed Replacement Goldfish to him.
I think he does, but only for Mariana's death and Richmond. In my gameplay i tried to save Francine so I decided to surrender myself to the new frontier, but they attacked anyway so... at least no one can say my Javi didn't tried to make things right. Even if Javier didnt felt guilt for what happened, at least no one can blame him for the attack after EP 3, Max confessed the truth, Tripp and Conrad (determinant) were there, they heard the confession: Joan gave the order and Badger carried it out.
I believe it's safe to assume that TNF was going to attack Prescott anyway, the difference is that now they had an "excuse". The way they did it was brutal, using walkers, tear gas and executing it's residents... those guys were f#cking butchers!
Not really. Something I'd argue is a positive thing is that, compared to most characters, Javier isn't really prone to negative feelings or holding onto things. Sure, he'll feel guilty for a bit if he feels responsible and will try to make things right, but he doesn't seem the type to carry burdens, at least not openly.
With that said, I do feel like he would blame himself somewhat for not being there to save David and/or Kate/Gabe in the ending(s), but he'd make his peace with it and try to move on with his life.The game opens up with him being late for his father's passing due to traffic and his reaction is to clarify that he tried to make it in time, with David beating and ranting at him for not being a good son. After Gabe's interruption breaks it up, he promises to step up and be there for the family. With this in mind, characters blaming him for things and him [determinately] accepting it is likely meant to be a reflection of his offscreen character development about responsibility--as a family man or as a leader.
Notice how a fair number of the choices/moments involve Javier doing things that either cause trouble down the road, whether it involves getting someone else killed, turning his back on someone else, or some other mix. Though the Gabe in the apartment is ultimately ruined by the terrible gameplay integration, it still counts in theory.
Fun fact: Prescott's destruction was originally gonna be Clementine's fault rather than Javier's. Badger was looking for her specifically and after she covered the Garcias escape by foiling his little sting and killing a bunch of his crew, he captured Francine on a supply run and was trying to get Javier and Tripp to turn Clementine over in exchange for her safety. This in turn was likely meant further fuel Conrad's vitriol with her and eventually cause him to try to take her captive in the subway when he overhears her story.
Yeah, this was kinda dumb. They probably should've had her specifically mention that Javier's brother is a maniacal douchebag that they probably shouldn't have bothered with if this was the case, especially since she's still there to back away when he attacks Fern [& determinately Rufus] and Gabe.
Actually, she was mad at him specifically for more or less rolling up on Joan as well as letting Tripp get killed(whether by Joan screwing him over or by implication)David/him shooting Clint/her despite Eleanor's advice. Which then spun off into a shootout that got a lot of bystanders killed and then Kate letting the escape van crash into the wall(which was "'Jagger's" fault, but still) and thus cause the breach that injured or killed more people.
Now that you mention it, a lot of characters suffer from this actually: Doug, Lilly, Andy(?), Ben, Kenny, The Stranger, Clementine, Christa, Nick(who's probably the king of this), Rebecca, Mike(originally?), Jane(?), Sarah, Kenny, Arvo(?), Michonne, Kate, and maybe Eleanor. It's a natural extension of this type of setting.
There is a difference between depression, as in the word to describe the general feeling of being depressed and depression, as in the mental illness. I should elaborate, the latter is what I mean.
In The Walking Dead, as I said, we've seen people go through very heavy bouts of grief such as pretty much every single character you mention.
But I mostly mean we never see it classified in the mental illness. Sure, we can just as easily make theories as to whether characters such as Sarah or Nick suffer from any mental illnesses, but there has never been any confirmation.
This is why I say:
And this is what I mean when it comes to "overcoming" such a tribulation.
Also pretty much every character listed there hasn't really "overcome" self loathing other than perhaps maybe Clementine and maybe Kenny (who is listed twice). Michonne seems to make steps towards this but as we've seen in the comics, she's still suffering.