A New Frontier: Does it deserve all the heat?
After almost skipping Season 3 over all the negative reviews I read, I end up buying ANF when on sale. And yes, episodes where a bit shorter than usual, yes, I would have loved to play as Clementine, yes, there were a couple of clichés here and there but man... This is far from being the terrible story some of you painted for the rest of us.
I would have love, indeed, to see more of Clementine on the in-between S2 and S3 but this was a good TWD. No, it wasn't as strong as S1 but it was not that much "worse" than S2, just slightly. I really expected a debacle as with No Man's Sky or Mass Effect Andromeda but this game doesn't belong in that list of big disappointments.
Actually, what bothered me the most were a couple of bugs I found (some scenes will loop over and over for some time until it will get unstuck all by itself and some times I got a pretty weird lines coming from the back of Javier all the way to the border of the screen.
Yeah, of course I want the decisions to matter a little bit more (they really only influence how the characters feel about you at the end, but they don't really affect the story that much, I think). But tbh, I even feel I can play it a couple times again... It's not like 400 days or something like that.
So far, this is how I fee about the TT TWD series:
Season 1: 5/5
Season 2: 4.5/5
Season 3: 4/5
400 Days: 2.5/5
Michonne: 4/5
That being said, I am looking forward to the next Season (hopefully not the last one as it's been announced)
Comments
Nah, it definitely deserves to be cold at times too
Yes it does.
They spent years building Clem's character and now they just destroyed it.
Not only that but the overall story is weak, filled with cliches and love triangle bullshit.
It doesn't even feel like Walking Dead anymore, they should have just ended it with Season 2 if they planned on rewriting ANF like 14 times before release, all in the span of 3-4 months.
It still deserves SOME heat as it negatives somewhat outweighs the positives in this season. Now that I don't want ramble about ALL OF ANF's specific problem all fucking over again because it is tiresome at this point I'll just point out what I think is the root of all the hate for this game.
It deserves heat in these aspects:
Bugs, its all over the place.
Story, has a great concept but mediocre execution, if Telltale would have just given effort to the story then this would have been a great story.
Character Development, now personally this problem is only for a few characters but for many of the fanbase its almost all of the main characters,the Garcia's,New Frontier, Prescott peeps,etc.
I actually agree to an extent. It definitely has it's problems and it is in some ways weaker than Season 2, but it also makes a few improvements, took some risks(though I'd argue not quite enough), and I at least enjoyed certain aspects enough to feel really annoyed when they got cheaped out on.
Well, I think that the fact that there is a big void between S2 and S3 when it comes to Clementine's story makes her new personality less appreciated. If we would have been part of that transformation then ANF would have been better received.
Again, maybe my perception comes from having so low expectations that I, in the end, felt positive towards it overall.
I mean, I read the comments regarding the script but when I compare that with "My face is tired" from ME:A then the writing doesn't look bad at all.
The bugs were the most disruptive for me tbh and a few lines where the options had nothing to do with the actual answer (ex: selecting "Tell him off" when breaking the glass). And like I said, it felt a bit short.
I don't know what it is, but overall I am more positive than negative regarding ANF and believe me, I was ready to bring down the house if disappointed. Maybe I got an ending that I was ok with, maybe I was happy to play TWD again and see Kenny and Clementine.
I know it has shortcomings, but I don't think it is a franchise killer, at least not for me... that's all. I hope they learned from their mistakes and I hope they put in S4 all the effort possible, like it was their first game and their future depended on it, instead of simply capitalizing on a moneymaker. Bring the best writers possible, keep up the voice acting to make it immersive, give us real alternatives that could be real game changers (instead of same consequences but just with different people, I am a bit tired of A or B has to die no matter what, and give us some content for our bucks, meaning, more playtime)
Just my 2 cents.
Oh, it totally deserves a lot of criticism.
Just like Mass Effect Andromeda, it's full of bugs and lagging.
Just like No Man's Sky, Telltale lied to us about a lot of stuff, like:
They have been working on this game for 2 YEARS. They gave us a middle finger and made this game for the new players. If anything, A New Frontier was such a mistake. I've been one of Telltale's defenders for years and this is how they repay me?
I assume the revenge story would've been aimed at David and/or Mason.
Yes, I get that they did not delivered on all the promises. I am also disappointed on the play time considering the time they took developing this. But to compare this with ME:A and No Man's sky? Idk, those guys really pushed the envelope.
I am actually concerned about S4 as this S3 took 2 years of development and S4 is announced for 2014...
Actually, that's no longer the case because MOST of Andromeda's bugs among other things have been patched out by this point.
I think the 42 versions of Clem thing refers to something that comes up at the end of Episode 5 of ANF; the so-called "What did YOUR Clementine become?" Screen.
Season 2's ending DID have SOME impact in Season 3, just not as much as some people would've liked. Depending on which ending we'd get, it could have an impact on some of Clementine's Flashbacks, her interactions at certain points, and how Clem responds to Gabe's Determinant death in Episode 5. I think it would also affect the "What did your Clementine Become?" screen as well at the end.
"Lying" and "Changing One's Mind" are 2 different things. Clementine's Revenge story WAS suppose to be a thing in Season 3, but it got REWRITTEN and so it never happened as a result. They didn't LIE about it, they simply CHANGED it.
The Garcia family and their story arcs were actually pretty enjoyable after everything was said and done.
But lying to consumers, releasing a halfassed product for the company's most crucial franchise, marketing 1 episode as 2, throwing our s2 endings in the trash, destroying Clem's character, and basically ignoring and lying to the fans until their sales and public perception tanked is completely unacceptable.
I ended up liking ANF for the Garcia's but the entire season was a dumpster fire of failed fan expectations and disappointments. Vengeful does not forget easily.
The OG brought them in this conversation.
2018*
I thought it was supposed to show her personality during gameplay, not in a fucking menu. I doubt it will affect Season 4 that much.
That is NOT a big impact. What was the point of keeping Kenny/Jane alive if they just die within minutes in ANF? Changing personalities doesn't change anything.
Doesn't change the fact of how unimpressive the final product was.
Eh, could've been better, though. Barely got any Kate after a while and while Gabe was easily one of the best ones, they still missed a few marks with him. Both particularly towards the end.
Like I said, they weren't perfect but "pretty enjoyable". I guess it also depends which ending you get, like I had the David dies/Kate vanishes/Gabe lives ending and this ending definitely does more justice to David and Gabe's arc than certain other endings.
i consider that the cannon ending because it had the best writing out of the endings.
Sure it does, it could've been so much better but at least it's enjoyable. I've found some bugs at the beginning of EP 3 but that was it, never had any other problem with the game after that. I enjoyed ANF much more than the Michonne mini series and 400 days and in some other aspects... more than season 2.
I enjoyed playing as Javier, he is not on par with Lee but he is a solid character and has a great personality for a protagonist, whichever choice you pick, it suits him, whether he is a douche or a good guy, you can switch between "good" and "bad" as much as you want and it's still not out of character for him, wich wasnt the case for Clementine... playing as a little girl takes me out of immersion for a zombie apocalypse game. With Javier you can play as a hot headed asshole, that makes him more badass.
I personally loved ANF. It has it's flaws yes but I think they're greatly exaggerated. A perfect example of why it's better to play something yourself and form your own opinions.
I think it's great you loved ANF. Kudos to you!
But I wanna ask you something: none of the constant rewrites and character developments bothered you at all? Not even Joan or Eleanor's character?
Well I'm not going to judge based on what it could've been or what it was originally intended to be. So no, not really.
Joan's actions by the end of episode 4 not matching her previously established characterization and her character not acting accordingly to her established motivations (or any motivation at all to do what she did) is not "what could've been"s, it's what it was.
Eleanor's character not going anywhere for 4 episodes straight and getting a single minuscule and rushed characterization moment in episode 5 is not "what could've been"s, it's what it was.
So isn't her character, or any other side character really, getting proper conclusion. Joan, Clint, Ava, Tripp, Eleanor, AJ.
It's not about the "what it could've been"s, it's about erasing "what it was originally meant to be" and replacing it with something that did not work and effectively made the final product, unfortunate to say, shit.
Fixed.
This.
Actually, it'd say the rushed moment was actually in Episode 4, even if it was really easy to overlook(read:miss completely) given Tripp's idiocracy and Gabe's [mishandled] determinate outburst. What we saw in Episode 5 was a set follow-up that didn't do much of anything.
It wasn't THAT bad imo... maybe it's because I'm not a huge fan of Clem but I enjoyed it more than Season 2 and TWD Michonne. Still, Season 1 was on another level.
If the fans are dissatisfied with the product they purchased then I say it deserves all the heat it gets.
That said I'm glad you enjoy the game.
I agree.
Hmm... didn't thought about it, good point.
Amen
No. Not really. It's nowhere near as good as Season 1 & 2, but I feel some of the hate is a little overboard.
It has A LOT of problems. The more you think about stuff (timing of when Clem was in the New Frontier, how they took over Richmond but are apparently peaceful based on Clint's "we exile, we don't kill" remarks, the Eli scene which makes no fucking sense, etc.) the worse it gets. That's not even addressing major problems (Clem's shoehorned in which distracts from Javier's story, the silliness of the hanging fight in which a settlement of raiders - people who attack and murder people for a living - who have their guns directly pointed at the back of the heads of a couple of characters somehow lose and don't kill a single person despite superior numbers, arms, and literally having their enemies at their mercy, absurd writing like Javier surviving said gun fight by literally using running people as human shields, etc.).
But with all of that, there were positives (Javier's family drama was interesting, being able to keep a detriment character from Episode 2 alive throughout the season). It was the worst of the main series, but it wasn't worth the "Season 3 has ruined TTWD forever" vitriol that some people had.
Honestly, I would put the score more at 3 - 3.5 going off of your ratings. Not good, but the worst either.
Though Michonne game sucked hard.
Sounds like Season 2.5 all over again, eh?
More like they intended to have it be dual-perspective story at first, but that changed further along in development into a more Garcia-centric story and then a David-centric one. Thus, they were stuck having to find a way to make her work in the new story direction because they had already showed off that conceptual teaser trailer at E3 and everyone was expecting her to be in it and spamming obnoxious phrases like "No Clem, No Buy."
What exactly makes you say that? I still haven't played the game myself, but from what I've experienced, it looked cool enough and was a nice change of pace.
Sounds like a pretty good reason not to have a reveal before you've even got a direction set for the game, instead of trying to ensure you keep all the people spamming obnoxious phrases strung along for their money. Take the hit if you want to go in a direction a good deal of people aren't really here for or deliver.
TT did neither of those things and absolutely deserved the backlash imo.
I knew it was only a matter of time....
But yes, that was a very poor move in hindsight.
Oh yes, definitely. They knew exactly what they were presenting at E3, its only in the weeks leading up to release that they backed off emphasizing Clems involvement and stating it's a Javier story, and then a week before release that we find out she's less of protagonist alongside Javier and is simply playable through flashbacks. That last part was revealed through Amazons store description, not a Telltale statement.
As soon as Job started describing her as a supporting character, I got the first two episodes off my system and didn't bother with the rest. When you're describing the a former protagonist as a protagonist, it kind of gives the impression that they're a protagonist because that's what's been stated. She ended up being a supporting character who's absent through a good deal of the game that feels like nothing more than a spinoff or story. Which is fine, but I would have skipped this as quickly as I skipped Michonne had it been advertised this way. I had no interest in playing a side story, I wanted an actual follow-up and after a two year wait, that wasn't close to what I ended up with. I have plenty of other issues with the game, but this is a main one at the core.
I'll certainly be more cautious as the final season approaches, and wait for feedback rather than being the one who provides it. ANF killed the goodwill, for me, that the first two games had built up so I don't think this will be a preorder or day one purchase.
That damn loading-page-reply bug strikes again, I see.
Anyway, I think I've made my stance relatively apparent at some point in the past even if I didn't go into too much detail. I'm just happy this game series--and probably Clementine herself--will be put to rest soon.
You monster!
I'll poke battle you over Clementines death, but agreed otherwise. I hope they go out on a high note.
Yes, it deserves the heat.
Clem was a side character and they promised that she will be playable like the switches in The Last Of Us between Ellie and Joel. We played pointless flashbacks with Clem and end up always in the exact one point no matter how season 2 ended. You get 4 different locations but none of it mattered and Kenny-Jane died because game demanded it, a huge community like Wellington got raided by a few punks because.... reasons.
This season was so easily predictable and they made nonsense scenes because otherwise they would fail to add tensions.
So many bugs, glitches, scenario holes and lazy writings.
Game's admirable(!) effort to make you like Javi by playing pointless flashbacks that just wasting our time and even one of them didnt matter.
I observed the thoughts of people who like Conrad and I realized that majority of these people like him because he can survive the whole season(LOL What?). I mean he just show up like 10 minutes total on 3 episodes. Oh I forgot, he read a book which counts a lot(Oh, please. We are not buying it, Telltale).
I expected that decisions may effect seriously but this is another disappointment.Lets see :
Choose to get back on the road and not stay in junkyard, you will end up as a thief no matter what.
Choose to go with Eleanor so you can reach your family earlier, you will still reach them in the same timeline with Tripp and still got ambushed by A New Frontier at the same exact way. Tripp will not make any difference.
Choose to surrender so nobody will hurt and leave with your family at the end of ep1 so you wont have to fight with them, Conrad will still blame you for the destruction of Prescott and the execution of Francine.
Kill Conrad or spare him, it doesnt affect your relationship with Clem and she will still be a companion.
Game will give Clem another shot for traveling with a group even she lost all of her loved ones and even Clem regardless admitted that usually it is just herself and no one else. Lame. And also, she will not leave Javi with no reason. She has no reason to stay with them especially if Javi sold her out for Conrad.
Choose to leave with David, well game politely says fuck you and face you with David no matter what so you can get confronted by him.
Reject Kate all the way and dont do any moves to her and always watch David's back, David will still think that you are a treacherous piece of shit(LOL lamest relationship design ever).
I admit, Save Ava or Tripp was a good one but they will die no matter what in next episode and Telltale once again proved that your choices dont actually matter.
Choose to demand justice for Mariana, well fuck you you will get kicked out no matter what. Badger,Max? Nah, they can stay. There is nothing wrong with Badger even he killed a little girl for no reason and raided communities and killed the innocent people in there. He is not a sociopath or anything.
Clem kicked out because she used the last piece of drug on AJ for saving him. But Lingard used the same drug for getting high? Fuck you get the hell outta here, you cant question of the treachery of Lingard since he has a protection of the plot armor.
Am I correct in assuming you're referring to Part 2's?
I guess you could say its a Book end.
To be fair, Max and Badger's crews showed up barely three minutes later, so that wasn't gonna make much of a difference realistically.
Yeah, that definitely could've been done a little better. All we really get is exposition/backstory from Eleanor rather than any overt effect on how the following scenes plays out from that point on. They tried to visually justify it with the horses, but they still could've done more with it.
Yeah, that was one of the few letdowns in Above the Law.
Fixed.
Yeah, this is a case where what would be most in character could've been massaged a bit for the sake of gameplay.
Actually, this was apparently intentional. At the very least, they made distinctions between their deaths(for worse or better) and Ava in particular can be seen as a tangible motivator for David to chicken out.
To be fair, this can easily be handwaved as Joan getting you out of her hair before you make an even bigger stink(and expose it as a unintended side effect of her backdoor dealings), which is why David told you to keep that to yourself.
And either way, that is why he is easily one of the worst/weakest characters this time around.
To be fair, Lingard is the New Frontier's doctor, [eventual?] co-leader, and David's friend/colleague who he has been trying to make go straight, while Clementine is an edgy newbie who brought a sick baby into their camp and stole from them when she was told they wouldn't be able to save him(btw, I'm surprised add using the medicine or not to your list even if it was most likely done for the sake of ambiguity). Call it nepotism if you want(because it's pretty much what it is), but that's just how it is.
Plus, they never really clarified what he was using to get high either time and I kinda doubt he was actually using any of the medicine. Even if that's the somewhat hilarious immediate conclusion.
There is nothing wrong with Clem get kicked out if you inject him. There are two things that makes it nonsense. First, Lingard wasted important drugs on himself and even Clem knows that(You have an option to confront him before you inject AJ). So Clem has been marked as a thief and also marked as "putting herself before the group". Lingard did the exact same thing and he actually put himself before the group. He wasted drugs that can save someones life later on. Lingard needed to be confronted as well. I call it nepotism but a dangerous nepotism that risking everyone.
If I remember right, he wasnt sick. He became sick later on.