I agree with most of this and it's pretty close to my motivations for wanting to create this thread for quite a while.
I felt that besides Clementine, a 13 year-old, no other female character were either likable, memorable, or relateable.
I know I'm not female, but I wouldn't say that they were never any of those things, even if they did have issues as the story carried on. Part of the reason Kate was my favorite character in Part 1 was the fact that she was so down to earth as well as a glimpse into a unique lifestyle. But alas, YMMV.
Eleanor purely exists to tease an alternate girlfriend choice for the player to have, and then suddenly stirs up trouble for Javier by betraying him regardless of whether Conrad is alive or not.
Exactly my concern about her throughout this installment despite really wanting to like her. A concern that unfortunately proved fruitful.
Mariana is basically a Clementine expy who dies in the first episode and makes no impact on the player themselves due to lack of emotional investment opportunities.
And that pretty much sums up why I didn't like her.
Joan became yet another generic and black-and-white villain with no redeemable qualities.
Clementine shouldn't have to be the only likable female and/or kid/youth character to care about.
There were problems I had with how the women were presented in A New Frontier, mainly with Kate and Eleanor.
I felt that besides Clementi… morene, a 13 year-old, no other female character were either likable, memorable, or relateable. Kate instigates a conflict between Javier and David, all while doing a 180 on her stance with Richmond. Eleanor purely exists to tease an alternate girlfriend choice for the player to have, and then suddenly stirs up trouble for Javier by betraying him regardless of whether Conrad is alive or not. Mariana is basically a Clementine expy who dies in the first episode and makes no impact on the player themselves due to lack of emotional investment opportunities. Joan is yet another generic and black-and-white villain with no redeemable qualities.
The only positive one I've seen is Ava, and if saved, is bitter towards Javier as to disallow any positive connections before her final moments where she's killed off in t… [view original content]
Lilly! She's tough and practical like Jane but not devious. She went through real hardships that had an unfortunate outcome but she didn't try to manipulate people or situations to her advantage for kicks.
Bonnie. She's hard to hate tho many ppl claim to. It's easy to understand someone who wants to do the right thing but self preservation kicks in and they go with the safest bet. She seemed like someone who'd had a hard luck life and whose efforts and affections generally went unnoticed. Sometimes getting by means not caring what friends and enemies you make along the way.
Ben. He's easily one of the most realistic characters for his age or any age in that setting. He ruins stuff but wants to help and isn't a jerk about it which makes him more sympathetic and less stereotypical brooding teenage boy than Gabe.
Sarah. Huge set up, no pay off. It felt like there were so many layers to her character and def more than meets the eye. Her interest in learning to shoot showed she did grasp what they were dealing with and could have underwent a transformation. I don't think she was retarded like dad thought just over sheltered by everybody. The player would have grew with her if Telltale had followed thru instead of using her death to sell Jane's rationale.
I think that when writers write their characters, they should not think about trying to make equal character traits for all genders. They will not please everyone anyways.
I think that when writers write their characters, they should not think about trying to make equal character traits for all genders. They will not please everyone anyways.
Plus, this topic o'mine didn't see much discussion when I created it since I was kinda recovering from finals at the time and seldom had the energy to put together a well thought out post.
Try to ignore this as I'm having computer issues at the moment and just need to post all this somewhere before I do anything with it.
Kat… moree is a very well-written character.
I agree, but we don't really get further chances to take it in, you know?
I like most of the female cast this time around and feel they've been underutilized and/or mistreated.
Kate's determinant death feels a mite stupid to me.
"Gabentine" should've stayed a joke or at least a "maybe one day" sort of spiel. It's starting to hold both characters back.
Ava is one of the best supporting characters we've had.
I hope Clementine is wrong about Eleanor and maybe vice versa.
Come to think of it, this sexist shit is pretty stupid at this point in the game. You're either getting with Kate or you're not. Eleanor shouldn't be anymore demeaned and sidelined than she already has been
(?) DabigRG forgot about these.
All of these are taken from the Unpopular opinion thread, I assume? They are yours, except for the 1st one, which is mine.
Lilly! She's tough and practical like Jane but not devious. She went through real hardships that had an unfortunate outcome but she didn't t… morery to manipulate people or situations to her advantage for kicks.
Bonnie. She's hard to hate tho many ppl claim to. It's easy to understand someone who wants to do the right thing but self preservation kicks in and they go with the safest bet. She seemed like someone who'd had a hard luck life and whose efforts and affections generally went unnoticed. Sometimes getting by means not caring what friends and enemies you make along the way.
Ben. He's easily one of the most realistic characters for his age or any age in that setting. He ruins stuff but wants to help and isn't a jerk about it which makes him more sympathetic and less stereotypical brooding teenage boy than Gabe.
Sarah. Huge set up, no pay off. It felt like there were so many layers to her character and def more than meets the eye. Her … [view original content]
Idk Telltale made some positive steps forward in some aspects of ANF mostly related to gameplay and NOT involving character development though. lol They are very good at writing angry, overly aggressive dads! lmao
Idk Telltale made some positive steps forward in some aspects of ANF mostly related to gameplay and NOT involving character development though. lol They are very good at writing angry, overly aggressive dads! lmao
Eleanor didn't have a whole lot of reason to trust Javier, Clementine or anyone in that group. Clementine did, however unintentionally, kill a guy. Javi, Gabe, and Kate were strangers. However, she had even less reason to trust the Richmond people - those were the douches who killed Francine, attacked Prescott and also killed Mariana. She should have known most of that, yet she still chose to side with them. Why? For protection and creature comforts? Doesn't speak too well of her morals.
Joan obviously was an intelligent, ruthless bitch. A part of me wonders if she worked in advertising, or was a business woman pre-apocalypse. Or maybe she was the trophy wife of a rich man? I got Martha Stewart-type vibes from her.
Kate... was not as independent or strong as I would have liked. She didn't really fit either of your two tropes for women, though.
Clementine was closer to being an intelligent bitch with a ruthless streak. Honestly didn't mind this. Difference between her and Joan is that Joan was willing to take from others, up to killing them, so long as she got to live how she wanted to. She was selfish. I don't see that from Clementine.
Ava... not sure she fit either trope either. She went along with her group, though they made questionable choices but she didn't betray them. Unlike Joan, she wasn't making the decisions... so not the bitch wit a ruthless streak. She wasn't some sweet docile person either.
Francine died, but she really wasn't sweet, soft-spoken person... I'd say she was reckless, wannabe badass.
On a side note: I think it's a step forward for TTG that they had as much racial diversity as they did in this game.
But your post was doing some gender analysis... so on to the men. Are they being represented better? Um...
Well. Let's see. There were Javier, Tripp, Conrad, David, Gabe, Jesus. Lingard, Badger, and Max.
Tripp, Conrad, and Gabe all, at some point or another, behave very irrationally.
Conrad is nice when you meet him. Then he blames you for Francine's death (which I think is unfair. That group was going to raid/kill Prescott eventually) and is a jerk. I view this as him being irrational. Then he wants to use Clem for leverage. Nope. Did not like this guy.
Gabe was awful; a truly stupid asshole.
Lingard was a weak, pathetic man. Just a sad sack of a human being. Those types of people do exist. So, realistic.
I forget why Tripp gets all pissy with us... but at points he is a nice guy, a bit dopy with his ... Eleanor and I have this thing and I think I'm in love with her, but I'm too much of a wimp to say anything to her... and that was not attractive about him, but I guess it gave him some depth.
Jesus was great. Always morally consistent, loyal, and honest.
David was a mixed bag. Good intentions but controlling and possessive. A little too prone to violence... not surprising considering his military background. I think it spoke well of him that he wasn't conspiring with Joan to raid other camps. It's one thing to defend what you have and another entirely to intentionally take from others and imperiling their lives.. .
My conclusion from looking back at all the major characters from TWD ANF is that the gender dynamics are really not as bad as you make it out be to... I don't think it's a bad thing that the villain turned out to be a woman. Some people say that the world would be better if ruled by woman. To which I think... not if those women are Margaret Thatcher or Condoleezza Rice type women.
Forum Guideline 2.2 Be respectful of personal boundaries towards Telltale Staff members (past and present) and do not personally insult, harass, or scapegoat them - whether or not they post on the forums. Keep all game discussions focused on the content and not the creators. Avoid posting social media content from staff members that is not related to official and intentional game promotion. Please note that most staff members cannot directly comment on future episode release dates, upcoming episode spoilers, etc.
Idk Telltale made some positive steps forward in some aspects of ANF mostly related to gameplay and NOT involving character development thou… moregh.
They are very good at writing angry, overly aggressive dads! lmao
Yeah, well they need to git gud at writing something else. Or just not include that anymore, either way is a plus.
There were problems I had with how the women were presented in A New Frontier, mainly with Kate and Eleanor.
I felt that besides Clementi… morene, a 13 year-old, no other female character were either likable, memorable, or relateable. Kate instigates a conflict between Javier and David, all while doing a 180 on her stance with Richmond. Eleanor purely exists to tease an alternate girlfriend choice for the player to have, and then suddenly stirs up trouble for Javier by betraying him regardless of whether Conrad is alive or not. Mariana is basically a Clementine expy who dies in the first episode and makes no impact on the player themselves due to lack of emotional investment opportunities. Joan is yet another generic and black-and-white villain with no redeemable qualities.
The only positive one I've seen is Ava, and if saved, is bitter towards Javier as to disallow any positive connections before her final moments where she's killed off in t… [view original content]
I examined the list from ANF, and did not see the issue you brought up.
As far as teens... in ANF they did seem lacking. But GOT had plenty of kids and teens. There was Talia, Gared, Mira, Ryon. And two of them were playable.
You mentioned that people in their 50s/60s and so on aren't represented. Honestly, though, four years into the apocalypse not sure how many elderly people would survive. Never mind people with disabilities. Deaf/blind people, people who are paraplegics, or have intellectual disabilities... What I find interesting is how few athletes do, or people from the military - you know, the people who are supposed to be in good shape or capable of hunting.
What? This is about recurring issues I've noticed and wanted to talk about for a little while now. I just may not have gotten my point acros… mores all that effectively.
You can't tell me you don't see one of these trends after examining the character list, can you?
Jane was not a snake. She just didn't believe that being a part of a group served her interests. She helped Clem in many instances and, up until that final act, was honest with Clem about who she was. She didn't betray people the way Eleanor or Bonnie did. She wasn't unhinged the way Lily was. Christ. Lily shot Carly and she gets less hate than Jane.
Look, I don't want to get into who's better Kenny or Jane thing. I just want to say Jane receives way more hate than she deserves. In terms of this whole binary the OP set up... smart bitch who betrays you/ sweet soft-spoken likely to die... I don't think Jane fits either category.
It might help if the title made sense.
There does seem to be more hate for female characters....based on this forum anyway. No one knows … morehow the other %99 percent feels. One could argue its justified though. Is there really a reason to hate Luke, Alvin, Carlos, etc? Whereas Eleanor screwed us over, Bonnie screwed us over TWICE, Jane was a snake all along, Lilly killed one of our friends. Maybe its the writers who hate women and not the fanbase. lol Kenny, Ben, and Mike take a lot of s**t from fans though.
The Asperger's end of the spectrum? Typically autistic people are NOT that social or verbal. My gods, you couldn't shut that kid up. Duck was all over the place and liked being the center of attention. Neither of those really fits Asperger's very well. He had something, but not autism.
I really don't believe this is an actual problem, at least in my opinion anyway. There isn't any gender inequality in the walking dead, but there is Telltale reusing the same old tired tropes borrowed from previous characters onto their new ones, instead of being more creative and making something truly fresh. We see this with Kenny, Tripp and David.
Eleanor didn't have a whole lot of reason to trust Javier, Clementine or anyone in that group. Clementine did, however unintentionally, kill… more a guy. Javi, Gabe, and Kate were strangers. However, she had even less reason to trust the Richmond people - those were the douches who killed Francine, attacked Prescott and also killed Mariana. She should have known most of that, yet she still chose to side with them. Why? For protection and creature comforts? Doesn't speak too well of her morals.
Joan obviously was an intelligent, ruthless bitch. A part of me wonders if she worked in advertising, or was a business woman pre-apocalypse. Or maybe she was the trophy wife of a rich man? I got Martha Stewart-type vibes from her.
Kate... was not as independent or strong as I would have liked. She didn't really fit either of your two tropes for women, though.
Clementine was closer to being an intelligent bitch with a ruthless streak. Honestly didn't… [view original content]
I examined the list from ANF, and did not see the issue you brought up.
As far as teens... in ANF they did seem lacking. But GOT had plen… morety of kids and teens. There was Talia, Gared, Mira, Ryon. And two of them were playable.
You mentioned that people in their 50s/60s and so on aren't represented. Honestly, though, four years into the apocalypse not sure how many elderly people would survive. Never mind people with disabilities. Deaf/blind people, people who are paraplegics, or have intellectual disabilities... What I find interesting is how few athletes do, or people from the military - you know, the people who are supposed to be in good shape or capable of hunting.
Please be respectful of writers.
Forum Guideline 2.2 Be respectful of personal boundaries towards Telltale Staff members (past and presen… moret) and do not personally insult, harass, or scapegoat them - whether or not they post on the forums. Keep all game discussions focused on the content and not the creators. Avoid posting social media content from staff members that is not related to official and intentional game promotion. Please note that most staff members cannot directly comment on future episode release dates, upcoming episode spoilers, etc.
The Walking Dead across literally comics, the shows, and the games are some of the most diverse and (for lack of a better term) "progressive" pieces of media out there right now. Literally, all of them feature tons of men/women and different races/backgrounds. What are you talking about?
Men over women: Women are often either intelligent bitches with ruthless streaks or sweet soft-spoken ladies who are doomed to be made traitors or die.
Here are just a few female Walking Dead characters that I can think of that fit neither of those things. I'm just going to ignore the "doomed to be made traitors or die" because honestly, that's just a rule of The Walking Dead in general.
Lilly: Say what you want about her, she was far from ruthless. The only real "ruthless" thing I can think of is her wanting to leave Ben behind if he was stealing supplies, something that other characters such as Kenny and Christa express their desire to do so for other reasons later on in the next episode. She had her soft moments, even talking to Clementine, and was nice to her father and could be nice to Lee too.
Carley: She was neither really sweet, soft spoken, or ruthless. She was just a very down to earth girl who did her job and kicked ass, at times she could be a bit overzealous (such as pointing guns at the St Johns right away and ordering them to back up), but she had a soft spot for Lee and even other characters such as Ben who she defended.
Clementine: This is just...yeah, pretty obvious. I mean even with your choices, can she be ruthless? Sure, but she can also be quite smart, sweet, manipulative (in Season 2 at least) and was just a kid.
Here are just a few more, Michonne, Shel, Bonnie, Sarah, Rebecca, Christa, Sam, and Paige.
Girl over boys: Boys are almost universally dumb, hyperactive, or assholes, when they aren’t being neglected and nonexistent that is.
Once again I'm not going to get too into this, but I'm just gonna leave a list of male characters who were literally none of the three.
The Walking Dead across literally comics, the shows, and the games are some of the most diverse and (for lack of a better term) "progressive" pieces of media out there right now. Literally, all of them feature tons of men/women and different races/backgrounds. What are you talking about?
I mean the games specifically have had these trends in most of its installments.
I don't watch the comics or read the shows, so I have nothing to say there.
Here are just a few female Walking Dead characters that I can think of that fit neither of those things. I'm just going to ignore the "doomed to be made traitors or die" because honestly, that's just a rule of The Walking Dead in general.
Lilly: Say what you want about her, she was far from ruthless. The only real "ruthless" thing I can think of is her wanting to leave Ben behind if he was stealing supplies, something that other characters such as Kenny and Christa express their desire to do so for other reasons later on in the next episode. She had her soft moments, even talking to Clementine, and was nice to her father and could be nice to Lee too.
Carley: She was neither really sweet, soft spoken, or ruthless. She was just a very down to earth girl who did her job and kicked ass, at times she could be a bit overzealous (such as pointing guns at the St Johns right away and ordering them to back up), but she had a soft spot for Lee and even other characters such as Ben who she defended.
Clementine: This is just...yeah, pretty obvious. I mean even with your choices, can she be ruthless? Sure, but she can also be quite smart, sweet, manipulative (in Season 2 at least) and was just a kid.
Here are just a few more, Michonne, Shel, Bonnie, Sarah, Rebecca, Christa, Sam, and Paige.
Admittedly, Clementine(not counting ANF), Shel, Paige, and to an extent Carley are indeed exceptions. However, the others still apply, evocatively or otherwise:
Lily: Intelligent bitch and traitor from a certain pov. Some would flanderize her as being ruthless, but she's actually just brusque with no action.
Christa: Technically an exception, but several lumped her into the intelligent bitch category and some still do for some reason.
Bonnie: Dabbled in pretty much everything but intelligent, oddly enough--even if only determinantly.
Rebecca: Somewhat intelligent bitch that had an extremely minor ruthless streak and was ultimately doomed to die. Notable in that there were many who refused to forgive her despite the [admittedly rushed] atonement.
Sarah: I know you said you were ignoring her, but she does technically fall under not only sweet softspoken and doomed to die, but is also actually a teenager. However, I'll coincide that she only counts because of that and the way she was treated in her final episode.
Michonne: Don't watch the show, but definitely came off as somewhat ruthless in the DLC.
Sam: Shows a somewhat ruthless predilection, even if only reactionary.
Once again I'm not going to get too into this, but I'm just gonna leave a list of male characters who were literally none of the three.
Hence why I specified Men over Boys. Which applies to pretty much everyone ages 5-19 but James and Alex Fairbanks. In the only installement that doesn't feature Clementine as well...hmm....
The Walking Dead across literally comics, the shows, and the games are some of the most diverse and (for lack of a better term) "progressive… more" pieces of media out there right now. Literally, all of them feature tons of men/women and different races/backgrounds. What are you talking about?
Men over women: Women are often either intelligent bitches with ruthless streaks or sweet soft-spoken ladies who are doomed to be made traitors or die.
Here are just a few female Walking Dead characters that I can think of that fit neither of those things. I'm just going to ignore the "doomed to be made traitors or die" because honestly, that's just a rule of The Walking Dead in general.
Lilly: Say what you want about her, she was far from ruthless. The only real "ruthless" thing I can think of is her wanting to leave Ben behind if he was stealing supplies, something that other characters such as Kenny and Christa express their desire to do s… [view original content]
Have you read Lord of the Flies? Remove the structure of society and all of its decorum, and you reveal the worst in people. That seems to be the popular belief among most people who write books or make movies about the apocalypse. Why is that? The imagined survivors become so tribal and selfish; regressing in their values and morals. All too often the groups are lead by terrible people. We've seen this over, and over, and over again. TT's take on the apocalypse is no different.
Personally I think you are making too big a deal about how women and boys are portrayed. There are plenty of exceptions in each and every season of TWD that disproves your main point about the representation of gender. I think there is more nuance in how the writers are presenting gender than you are giving them credit for.
Age is a different matter. Not at all sure why there aren't more teenagers or kids in these games. Am not at all curious or bothered by the lack of elderly people. I don't think they could hack it. I am terribly out of shape and think I'd be dead on the first day of the outbreak in my town; if something like this could actually happen. I have access to lots of sharp, pointy things but am not at all certain I could kill a zombie before being bitten or eaten alive. I assume most elderly people would just die. As I've mentioned in other posts, I am curious why there aren't more soldiers or athletes who do survive.
I meant since this series started. Also, notice that I specify women and boys, with teenagers and to an extent elders being occasional consi… morederations.
The point is that those particular groups tend to get not very positive portrayals and/or treatment compared to their counterparts.
Lilly: She isn’t attributed to that of the archetypal ‘love interest’ as we’re so used to seeing for female characters in games. So she isn’t hypersexualised, and in a sense I think that has set a precedent for future female characters to come. Like Kenny she has a tendency to be very narrow-minded; she refuses to hear people out. Kenny displays similar characteristics, if not exactly the same. Larry clearly had a negative impact on her. He was undoubtedly very controlling, and it shows in how she strives to please him. She typically doesn’t care how others perceive her, but her father is that exception; she doesn’t dare side against him. Everything she does is in the best interest of the group. As she maintains leadership while simultaneously keeping the motor inn’s security plan running, despite what had happened to her father not so long ago. She even taught the group how to use a gun effectively, as Lee tells Andy St. John. She’s very compassionate. Even if you’ve sided against her throughout the entire duration of episodes 1-2, she still asks how you are, not forgetting the end of episode 1 when she was practically the only person to console Lee after having to choose between Carley and Doug.
Comments
I agree with most of this and it's pretty close to my motivations for wanting to create this thread for quite a while.
I know I'm not female, but I wouldn't say that they were never any of those things, even if they did have issues as the story carried on. Part of the reason Kate was my favorite character in Part 1 was the fact that she was so down to earth as well as a glimpse into a unique lifestyle. But alas, YMMV.
Exactly my concern about her throughout this installment despite really wanting to like her. A concern that unfortunately proved fruitful.
And that pretty much sums up why I didn't like her.
Fixed.
Yeah, I kinda wanna see the source of this too.
Amen.
So here's a question: Excluding Clementine, who is the best female and/or youth character(s)? Why?
Lilly! She's tough and practical like Jane but not devious. She went through real hardships that had an unfortunate outcome but she didn't try to manipulate people or situations to her advantage for kicks.
Bonnie. She's hard to hate tho many ppl claim to. It's easy to understand someone who wants to do the right thing but self preservation kicks in and they go with the safest bet. She seemed like someone who'd had a hard luck life and whose efforts and affections generally went unnoticed. Sometimes getting by means not caring what friends and enemies you make along the way.
Ben. He's easily one of the most realistic characters for his age or any age in that setting. He ruins stuff but wants to help and isn't a jerk about it which makes him more sympathetic and less stereotypical brooding teenage boy than Gabe.
Sarah. Huge set up, no pay off. It felt like there were so many layers to her character and def more than meets the eye. Her interest in learning to shoot showed she did grasp what they were dealing with and could have underwent a transformation. I don't think she was retarded like dad thought just over sheltered by everybody. The player would have grew with her if Telltale had followed thru instead of using her death to sell Jane's rationale.
So with The Final Season on it's way, how much chance/hope is there that we'll see these trends bucked and have more nuanced positive portrayals?
I think that when writers write their characters, they should not think about trying to make equal character traits for all genders. They will not please everyone anyways.
They should be thinking about not doing the same shit over and over again.
[removed]
Really now? I wasn't aware.
Plus, this topic o'mine didn't see much discussion when I created it since I was kinda recovering from finals at the time and seldom had the energy to put together a well thought out post.
(?) DabigRG forgot about these.
All of these are taken from the Unpopular opinion thread, I assume? They are yours, except for the 1st one, which is mine.
Yes. I was intending on weaving them into a post or two, but yes I indeed forgot about them.
I agree Ben is the best female character hands down
Actually, he technically falls under "Boys."
It's okay. You are not a machine. Don't stress yourself. There's time for everything.
DabigRG specified "youth" characters which includes both boys and girls.
Is that a joke?
Idk Telltale made some positive steps forward in some aspects of ANF mostly related to gameplay and NOT involving character development though. lol They are very good at writing angry, overly aggressive dads! lmao
No, he's being straight about Sweet Polly Oliver. Except not
Yeah, well they need to git gud at writing something else. Or just not include that anymore, either way is a plus.
I call bullshit.
Eleanor didn't have a whole lot of reason to trust Javier, Clementine or anyone in that group. Clementine did, however unintentionally, kill a guy. Javi, Gabe, and Kate were strangers. However, she had even less reason to trust the Richmond people - those were the douches who killed Francine, attacked Prescott and also killed Mariana. She should have known most of that, yet she still chose to side with them. Why? For protection and creature comforts? Doesn't speak too well of her morals.
Joan obviously was an intelligent, ruthless bitch. A part of me wonders if she worked in advertising, or was a business woman pre-apocalypse. Or maybe she was the trophy wife of a rich man? I got Martha Stewart-type vibes from her.
Kate... was not as independent or strong as I would have liked. She didn't really fit either of your two tropes for women, though.
Clementine was closer to being an intelligent bitch with a ruthless streak. Honestly didn't mind this. Difference between her and Joan is that Joan was willing to take from others, up to killing them, so long as she got to live how she wanted to. She was selfish. I don't see that from Clementine.
Ava... not sure she fit either trope either. She went along with her group, though they made questionable choices but she didn't betray them. Unlike Joan, she wasn't making the decisions... so not the bitch wit a ruthless streak. She wasn't some sweet docile person either.
Francine died, but she really wasn't sweet, soft-spoken person... I'd say she was reckless, wannabe badass.
On a side note: I think it's a step forward for TTG that they had as much racial diversity as they did in this game.
But your post was doing some gender analysis... so on to the men. Are they being represented better? Um...
Well. Let's see. There were Javier, Tripp, Conrad, David, Gabe, Jesus. Lingard, Badger, and Max.
Tripp, Conrad, and Gabe all, at some point or another, behave very irrationally.
Conrad is nice when you meet him. Then he blames you for Francine's death (which I think is unfair. That group was going to raid/kill Prescott eventually) and is a jerk. I view this as him being irrational. Then he wants to use Clem for leverage. Nope. Did not like this guy.
Gabe was awful; a truly stupid asshole.
Lingard was a weak, pathetic man. Just a sad sack of a human being. Those types of people do exist. So, realistic.
I forget why Tripp gets all pissy with us... but at points he is a nice guy, a bit dopy with his ... Eleanor and I have this thing and I think I'm in love with her, but I'm too much of a wimp to say anything to her... and that was not attractive about him, but I guess it gave him some depth.
Jesus was great. Always morally consistent, loyal, and honest.
David was a mixed bag. Good intentions but controlling and possessive. A little too prone to violence... not surprising considering his military background. I think it spoke well of him that he wasn't conspiring with Joan to raid other camps. It's one thing to defend what you have and another entirely to intentionally take from others and imperiling their lives.. .
My conclusion from looking back at all the major characters from TWD ANF is that the gender dynamics are really not as bad as you make it out be to... I don't think it's a bad thing that the villain turned out to be a woman. Some people say that the world would be better if ruled by woman. To which I think... not if those women are Margaret Thatcher or Condoleezza Rice type women.
Please be respectful of writers.
Forum Guideline 2.2 Be respectful of personal boundaries towards Telltale Staff members (past and present) and do not personally insult, harass, or scapegoat them - whether or not they post on the forums. Keep all game discussions focused on the content and not the creators. Avoid posting social media content from staff members that is not related to official and intentional game promotion. Please note that most staff members cannot directly comment on future episode release dates, upcoming episode spoilers, etc.
Dont make a big deal out of it. It is just a Telltale strategy that shape scenario so they could resurrect the same scenes and events again.
True most girls are flat characters but then again most guys were as well
He is being sarcastic. You said nothing wrong, don't worry.
I examined the list from ANF, and did not see the issue you brought up.
As far as teens... in ANF they did seem lacking. But GOT had plenty of kids and teens. There was Talia, Gared, Mira, Ryon. And two of them were playable.
You mentioned that people in their 50s/60s and so on aren't represented. Honestly, though, four years into the apocalypse not sure how many elderly people would survive. Never mind people with disabilities. Deaf/blind people, people who are paraplegics, or have intellectual disabilities... What I find interesting is how few athletes do, or people from the military - you know, the people who are supposed to be in good shape or capable of hunting.
Jane was not a snake. She just didn't believe that being a part of a group served her interests. She helped Clem in many instances and, up until that final act, was honest with Clem about who she was. She didn't betray people the way Eleanor or Bonnie did. She wasn't unhinged the way Lily was. Christ. Lily shot Carly and she gets less hate than Jane.
Look, I don't want to get into who's better Kenny or Jane thing. I just want to say Jane receives way more hate than she deserves. In terms of this whole binary the OP set up... smart bitch who betrays you/ sweet soft-spoken likely to die... I don't think Jane fits either category.
The Asperger's end of the spectrum? Typically autistic people are NOT that social or verbal. My gods, you couldn't shut that kid up. Duck was all over the place and liked being the center of attention. Neither of those really fits Asperger's very well. He had something, but not autism.
I really don't believe this is an actual problem, at least in my opinion anyway. There isn't any gender inequality in the walking dead, but there is Telltale reusing the same old tired tropes borrowed from previous characters onto their new ones, instead of being more creative and making something truly fresh. We see this with Kenny, Tripp and David.
Was this supposed to be a separate post of something? Cause it's really elaborate and pretty incongruous as a reply.
I meant since this series started. Also, notice that I specify women and boys, with teenagers and to an extent elders being occasional considerations.
The point is that those particular groups tend to get not very positive portrayals and/or treatment compared to their counterparts.
Oh, sorry bout that. Didn't mean to personally insult any of the staff.
The Walking Dead across literally comics, the shows, and the games are some of the most diverse and (for lack of a better term) "progressive" pieces of media out there right now. Literally, all of them feature tons of men/women and different races/backgrounds. What are you talking about?
Here are just a few female Walking Dead characters that I can think of that fit neither of those things. I'm just going to ignore the "doomed to be made traitors or die" because honestly, that's just a rule of The Walking Dead in general.
Lilly: Say what you want about her, she was far from ruthless. The only real "ruthless" thing I can think of is her wanting to leave Ben behind if he was stealing supplies, something that other characters such as Kenny and Christa express their desire to do so for other reasons later on in the next episode. She had her soft moments, even talking to Clementine, and was nice to her father and could be nice to Lee too.
Carley: She was neither really sweet, soft spoken, or ruthless. She was just a very down to earth girl who did her job and kicked ass, at times she could be a bit overzealous (such as pointing guns at the St Johns right away and ordering them to back up), but she had a soft spot for Lee and even other characters such as Ben who she defended.
Clementine: This is just...yeah, pretty obvious. I mean even with your choices, can she be ruthless? Sure, but she can also be quite smart, sweet, manipulative (in Season 2 at least) and was just a kid.
Here are just a few more, Michonne, Shel, Bonnie, Sarah, Rebecca, Christa, Sam, and Paige.
Once again I'm not going to get too into this, but I'm just gonna leave a list of male characters who were literally none of the three.
Lee, Luke, Alvin, Pete, Doug, Ben, Mark, Omid, Javier.
Prepositions: they will help you.
I mean the games specifically have had these trends in most of its installments.
I don't watch the comics or read the shows, so I have nothing to say there.
Admittedly, Clementine(not counting ANF), Shel, Paige, and to an extent Carley are indeed exceptions. However, the others still apply, evocatively or otherwise:
Lily: Intelligent bitch and traitor from a certain pov. Some would flanderize her as being ruthless, but she's actually just brusque with no action.
Christa: Technically an exception, but several lumped her into the intelligent bitch category and some still do for some reason.
Bonnie: Dabbled in pretty much everything but intelligent, oddly enough--even if only determinantly.
Rebecca: Somewhat intelligent bitch that had an extremely minor ruthless streak and was ultimately doomed to die. Notable in that there were many who refused to forgive her despite the [admittedly rushed] atonement.
Sarah: I know you said you were ignoring her, but she does technically fall under not only sweet softspoken and doomed to die, but is also actually a teenager. However, I'll coincide that she only counts because of that and the way she was treated in her final episode.
Michonne: Don't watch the show, but definitely came off as somewhat ruthless in the DLC.
Sam: Shows a somewhat ruthless predilection, even if only reactionary.
Hence why I specified Men over Boys. Which applies to pretty much everyone ages 5-19 but James and Alex Fairbanks. In the only installement that doesn't feature Clementine as well...hmm....
Have you read Lord of the Flies? Remove the structure of society and all of its decorum, and you reveal the worst in people. That seems to be the popular belief among most people who write books or make movies about the apocalypse. Why is that? The imagined survivors become so tribal and selfish; regressing in their values and morals. All too often the groups are lead by terrible people. We've seen this over, and over, and over again. TT's take on the apocalypse is no different.
Personally I think you are making too big a deal about how women and boys are portrayed. There are plenty of exceptions in each and every season of TWD that disproves your main point about the representation of gender. I think there is more nuance in how the writers are presenting gender than you are giving them credit for.
Age is a different matter. Not at all sure why there aren't more teenagers or kids in these games. Am not at all curious or bothered by the lack of elderly people. I don't think they could hack it. I am terribly out of shape and think I'd be dead on the first day of the outbreak in my town; if something like this could actually happen. I have access to lots of sharp, pointy things but am not at all certain I could kill a zombie before being bitten or eaten alive. I assume most elderly people would just die. As I've mentioned in other posts, I am curious why there aren't more soldiers or athletes who do survive.
Lilly: She isn’t attributed to that of the archetypal ‘love interest’ as we’re so used to seeing for female characters in games. So she isn’t hypersexualised, and in a sense I think that has set a precedent for future female characters to come. Like Kenny she has a tendency to be very narrow-minded; she refuses to hear people out. Kenny displays similar characteristics, if not exactly the same. Larry clearly had a negative impact on her. He was undoubtedly very controlling, and it shows in how she strives to please him. She typically doesn’t care how others perceive her, but her father is that exception; she doesn’t dare side against him. Everything she does is in the best interest of the group. As she maintains leadership while simultaneously keeping the motor inn’s security plan running, despite what had happened to her father not so long ago. She even taught the group how to use a gun effectively, as Lee tells Andy St. John. She’s very compassionate. Even if you’ve sided against her throughout the entire duration of episodes 1-2, she still asks how you are, not forgetting the end of episode 1 when she was practically the only person to console Lee after having to choose between Carley and Doug.