How would you have realistically fixed New Frontier’s story?

THE-DEAD-AMONG-US · November 2017

ANF’s story/writing gets a lot of hate, so I'd like to see what changes everyone would've made to go about fixing it.

Imagine you are working at TellTale and are able to make any changes to New Frontier's plot. You need to keep the general premise the same, so Javi and his family must still be present. Anything else regarding the story can be changed. Changes can include major plot overhauls ("no Clem," "Mari survives EP1," etc.) or just small tweaks to the final game ("I'd get rid of this quote/choice because it was very dumb").

Interested on everyone's thoughts.

Divided_We_Fall · November 2017

Give each main character a reason for their actions throughout the whole game (For Javi it can be getting back to his family, for Clem finding AJ)
Make Javi and Clem 50/50 playable or something close
Develop the relationship between Javi and Clem more
Either re-write the characters we have in the game right now (Eleanor, David, Tripp, Gabe) to make them with one goal in mind, no 180 character flips (David fighting you / Eleanor snitching on you / Gabe suddenly remembers you killed Conrad to save him, that sort of thing) or replace them completely with characters that feel real
I could go on forever, if you wanna fix ANF's story you gotta replace the whole game

cleminist · November 2017

rewrite the whole storyline, taking as much time as i need to write a decent one. fuck deadlines lol. thats what ruined the game.

a few things i'd do:

write storyline first, add characters later. this is to ensure that every character plays a role, and isnt forgotten about half way through the game
before even writing the storyline, i'd establish what i wanted to achieve with the game, and what it was about. family? betrayal? love? marijuana? the "purpose" is the base you build your storyline on (for me it is anyway)
no safe characters. everyone is determinant. everyone. the main character has a little plot armor, only lasting 4 episodes though. in the end, everyone either dies or lives. as they said, "the story is tailored by how you play "
no more clementine. she just wouldn't be in the game. that doesn't necessarily mean less sales, you just have to write a game worth playing without her.

not sure about the storyline, thats a toughie. its easy to call TT lazy and act like we're the know-it-alls but they still do put a lot of work into their games. this is just how i'd do it personally

deleted_km1avelr9965549 · November 2017

Also, have characters actually care about what you do, such as Clementine not instantly forgetting that you just betrayed her trust and sold her out to Conrad, even though youre the first person she has entrusted anything to in 2 years

David not going completely nuts on you, even if you have been pro-David the entire game (180 like you say)

thewalkingclementine · November 2017

I would change the whole game.

DabigRG · November 2017

Dammit, I was on the road to finally posting Part 1 of my ANF rewries, you joik!

For the time being, check my rewrite thread for what I've already summed up and what I will be posting in the (hopefully) near future.

DabigRG · November 2017

Eleanor snitching on you / Gabe suddenly remembers you killed Conrad to save him

To be fair here, Eleanor siding with Joan is likely a really egregious holdover from her original backstory and likely intended arc. And Gabe was absent for most of Above the Law and him determinately bringing up Conrad is a response to Javier being railroaded into suddenly not supporting him and always triggering him with "Your life is precious."

DabigRG · November 2017

David not going completely nuts on you, even if you have been pro-David the entire game (180 like you say)

Yeah, this is an instance where what would be [almost?] perfectly in character during the moment didn't necessarily make any real logical sense in the bigger picture.

A better example would be him suddenly deciding to abandon his plan at the last minute for no immediately clear reason other than to force last minute drama.

UrbanRodrik · November 2017

ok let s do this.
1: make Mariana a determinant character and have her interact with Gabe and Clem then have her Get bit during the Attack on Prescott if she survived episode 1 ((David Mercy kills her at the start of Above the Law.))
2: Have the characters talk about stuff they did before the outbreak ((Or still do if its possible to do like for example Conrad playing Poker and Gabe liking games like Chess and his Euchre game.)) Just to add some Backstory for them and not make them just Extremely quick Comments.
3: Longer episodes and Slower Pacing so that we can get to Known the characters better .
4: Make ties that bind a full episode instead of just two parts.
5: Expand more on Tripp s Regret of letting Prescott fall .
6: Not Banish Max from the story and have him be Locked up with Javi and David during Thicker than water then have him take part in the section where you steal the truck then just have him be like Conrad and have him determinantly survive From the Gallows.
7: Remove Conrad s dissapearing act in From the gallows and have him be with Javier when he goes to check to see if Kate s in the truck.
8: Remove Ava and Tripp s deaths in From the Gallows and have them take part in the sections where you have to go after David and Gabe or save Richmond ((Ava goes with David and Gabe when they take off since she s loyal to David and Tripp helps Kate save Richmond since that was the entire purpose of going there. ))
Consequences:
Ava s alive: If Javier goes to save David alone Ava gets bit instead of him while if Clementine and Javier both go to save David , Gabe and Ava he manages to save the 3 of them althought if Clementine goes alone to save them then Ava and Gabe survive since Clementine s focus would be on saving Ava and Gabe since she doesnt give a shit about David anyway.
Tripp s alive: If both Clementine and Javier go after David and Gabe then when they come back to Richmond Kate s dissapeared just like how Kate dissapears in the ending where David has his onscreen death and If Clementine goes with Kate and Tripp while Javier goes save David and Gabe you get the Kate and Gabe live ending except without David s burial scene.
9: Put Clint and Joan back into episode 5 and keep the deleted choices With Clint and joan ((Decide Joan s fate and Deciding what happens with the supplies Joan stole.))
10: since Tripp could be alive in this version then add some relation status with him like the ones the Garcia family has.

DabigRG · November 2017

have her Get bit during the Attack on Prescott if she survived episode 1 ((David Mercy kills her at the start of Above the Law.))

Dammit, why didn't I think of that?

5: Expand more on Tripp s Regret of letting Prescott fall .

Ch'yeah, seriously.

6: Not Banish Max from the story and have him be Locked up with Javi and David during Thicker than water then have him take part in the section where you steal the truck then just have him be like Conrad and have him determinantly survive From the Gallows.
7: Remove Conrad s dissapearing act in From the gallows and have him be with Javier when he goes to check to see if Kate s in the truck.
9: Put Clint and Joan back into episode 5 and keep the deleted choices With Clint and joan ((Decide Joan s fate and Deciding what happens with the supplies Joan stole.))

These very much.

8: Remove Ava and Tripp s deaths in From the Gallows and have them take part in the sections where you have to go after David and Gabe or save Richmond ((Ava goes with David and Gabe when they take off since she s loyal to David and Tripp helps Kate save Richmond since that was the entire purpose of going there. ))

Yeah, @TheDerpGod came up with the same thing a good while ago. Wish I'd thought of it.

If Clementine goes with Kate and Tripp while Javier goes save David and Gabe you get the Kate and Gabe live ending except without David s burial scene.

And the other way around?

UrbanRodrik · November 2017

then its the same as the normal endings ((Clem goes after david and gabe = gabe and Kate live while no one goes after them = Only Kate lives.))

DabigRG · November 2017

Okay.

Kennyshouladiedins1 · November 2017

Season 3 is flawed fatally by introducing new main characters that we have never met before but we are supposed to make choice like we have been playing them since the series started. It is impossible for a player to not be a little off put by this. So Season 3 should have been a season of the Garcia's. I have posted this before but here is my rewrite idea for season 3.

If I were doing S3...It would be a retelling of the first 4 years with Javier...to build up the characters. We are told that Kate was the smart one and that she kept things strait and logical...yet we never see that.
The kids...what was it like for them? We should be invested in their characters.
Episode 1: For All Seasons
We start as the beginning of ANF started.which I thought was extremely well done. The first episode would deal with Hector turning and the 3 Months staying in the house. Dealing with bandits that try to take their stuff who were friends of David and Kate...Kate would save Javi's life....end with them leaving the house
Episode 2: Time to Live
Would finish out the first year of the apocalypse the van gets a flat and Javi goes for set in an auto shop. Kate has her hands full with the kids as Gabe runs off because he sees a car that looks like the one his father left in. (You would play as Kate as you have to save Gabe...bonding moment for Kate and the Kids)
Episode 3: Time to Die
Year 2 of the apocalypse...the kids are growing and finding clothes is an adventure in itself as is teaching them how to survive when Kate and Javi themselves are just barely making it. They meet a man name Eric who is dying of cancer...he teaches Kate and Javi some survival tricks.(This is a character building episode) Eric asks only one thing...they watch over him and make sure he does not turn when he dies. We learn Kate's mother died of cancer. Javi and Kate share their feelings for each other.
Episode 4: Time to Laugh
Even in the apocalypse there are worse things than walkers....carnies. A community made up of people who are used to living on the road..this traveling group sets up for one hell of a carnival. But in the apocalypse nothing is as it seems...the bright lights and music draws the walkers to the carnies who try and thin out the herds so communities can grow. The entertainment gets deadly when a hurricane hits just as the largest herd ever seen descends on them. Purely an adventure episode giving the kids some time to enjoy the carnival atmosphere (stay away from the 100% all natural hot dogs). Year 3 ends
Episode 5: Time to Cry
The beginning of the 4th year of the apocalypse and we find Javi and Kate sleeping together in an abandoned hotel...outside of a Six Flags...the kids remember a time when their mother was alive and they stayed at the same hotel. Flashbacks to show a softer side of David. A gang of Bandits try to catch Kate and the Kids...The Hotel burns as the Garcia clan tries to escape the bandits and a herd of burning walkers....Final scene shows them on the road passing a sign that reads Prescott Airfield.
(I wrote this for another thread) It is easy to judge the writing of any given season...but it is infinitely harder to write a season with all the choices available and carry over detriment characters with meaningful dialogue because in the back of your mind you question how many people will see this scene
.
For all the things ANF does well or wrong, never forget that the work the writers do and the thoughts that go into the writing are not easy. Writing for a game like this is way harder than for a game like Uncharted or even The Last of US....those games are very linear in how the story spools out. And while Telltale games are not overly complicated in plot...they are more complex.
For me..I do enjoy ANF...but it is one massive mess...and when EP 5 hits I am going to go Episode by episode and point out how things could have been improved. 20/20 armchair writing for the win.
Interesting project....Try to write an episode how you would have done season 3...but keep in mind you need to include choices and be mindfull of each impact those choices will have....you will write some scenes up to 3-4 times with variance due to choices...and those choices may compound due to other choices...this is usually why in any one episode there is maybe 5 things that matter...and of those 5 only 1 or 2 mean much for the story as a whole.

enzeruanimefan · November 2017

Ava survives, at least determinantly
Mari gets more than passing mentions
Any focus on Kate is not about romance
Javi gets more chances to flirt with guys
More joke game overs
Clem is playable for 45% of each episode (gotta cut Javi some slack for being new, but Clem shouldn't be relegated to less playable, so)
Clem mentions more of her older friends in a positive way
Retcons in flashbacks/Previously On to any events that don't make sense in-universe
Collectibles a la Wolf Among Us' Book of Fables (but with an actual collectible aspect)
More survival-related things as sidenotes (food, hygiene)
Dialogue that is for/against/unsure of in-game topics without reasons being forced onto the player
Optional backstories for every character
Removal of QTEs (it literally bogs down the game engine)
Options to utilize inventory in both helpful and unhelpful ways
Rewind option at every Achievement-/Trophy-based break
Any food bars do not say Energy Bar or the like

Zjaa6 · November 2017

I wish they did Javier and Clem like Tales of the Borderlands, 50/50.

THE-DEAD-AMONG-US · November 2017

Yes! ? i agree

Ladariel · November 2017

I believe 80/20 for season 3 would of been ideal then 50/50 possibly during season 4. Making Javi earn his status of main character.

Ladariel · November 2017

No Garcia's as the focus of the story but rather a sub plot to Clem's main story with the New Frontier.

Either alternate between main characters between Clementine and Javier (meaning Clem ep.1, Javi ep.2, Clem ep.3, Javi ep.4, Clem ep.5 or 50/50 or 80/20 for episode 5. This is said because I believe Javier should have been slowly earning his place as main character. Not just taking over the show cold turkey. This was the biggest turn off for most besides just being an awful paced story anyhow.
A good rule for Telltale to live by would be that if they kill off more than one character in the same episode then they must wait AT LEAST 2 episodes to even think about logically killing another to kind of force writers to develop characters before wacking them off (get your mind out of the gutter)..

The love triangle is okay just could of been made better than it was. I'm no romance Casanova but atleast remix it differently than a copy of Rick, Shane and Lori deal. Where just this time Shane's perspective is explored in the game. Again okay but executed less cheesy and strange like with kissing Javi in front of David unless you actually had a romance sexual option (Mass Effect inspired) to love up Kate in the mystery machine while the kids scavenged the junkyard. Then Kate's kiss might make more sense a bit.

Make Mariana live longer and look up to Clem. But her shock death could still be on the table.

Gabe should be toughened up like comic Carl 2.0 after multiple years post apocalypse.

Clem should be the opposite of Gabe's adjustment by making her a bit less cynical and harsh. Of course she's very hardened survivor by now but killing Eli and the Doctor for info didn't sound like a Clemmy move much at all. She might be enraged at David understandably though. I saw a photo of Clem and Jesus training. Wouldn't of been a terrible concept to briefly explore. If Jane could teach Clem a modified thing or two to protect herself from walkers why can't Jesus preach self defense doctrine against muggers and rapists based on Clem's size? I'd save this for final episode though after Clem already barely (or doesn't eh ..why not darken the plot a bit more this is Walking Dead after all ) escape a pack of creepy unknown Marauders with skin masks and custom created walker armour from bites perhaps some materials "stolen" from Max's junkyard lol (not exactly like the whisperers but a scarier concept inspired from them and Texas chainsaw killer..) after banishment from the New Frontier that encounters her hideout seen where she met Ava. Clem sheds tears when remeniscing over that implied nightmarish night after David kicks her out over disobedience of taking their drugs to get Jesus to train her self defense.

Speaking of David he ought to be less moronic and attitude should change for the better if your on his side most times like a Kenny 2.0 in some ways if playing as Javi and you refused his wife's advances.

Elenore needed to be useful to the story and Tripp more useful to his town of Prescott by being a no nonsense leader that still kept his expressed desire to hang trouble makers within Prescott.

Joan needed so much more work done to her to make her at least as decent as Carver as a villain. Clint was boring, may as well just replace him with Nate or Bonnie ( if she survived your season 2 playthroughs) from 400 days or something. Someone more complex that cannot be trusted in spite of them wanting you to trust them. Bonnie's history with Clem would cause Javier to get repeated heat from Clem about not believing a word this weasel traitor says.

I'd of had Elenore get devoured by the street herd after her public betrayal that she dumbly blames Javi over.

Make Max go through what ever he was originally suppose to go through at the walker slaughter house. Now that I think this over.. Honestly every original idea Telltale had for only season 2 and 3 I'd NOT approve of discarding for New Frontier and add my tweaks here and there to the story. I don't think the original story was bad. It got horrible after they sabotaged the whole thing by taking everything good out for bullshit. Hopefully season 4 doesn't get last week before release rewrites. Like they say you should always go with your first mind.

ByzantineLover · November 2017

I went over this in my first thread, but I'll go over what I'd do differently for ANF specifically here (there are some continuity issues, mind, that you'd have to read the other thread to understand https://telltale.com/community/discussion/117177/how-i-would-change-the-walking-dead-game-season-1-2-3-and-dlc):

Season 3, Prologue:

All but one of the flashbacks now take place in one episode in chronological order.
As was originally planned, Kate is now Javier and David’s sister, Anita Garcia-Dominquez, while Hector is her husband and Mariana is their daughter. Thus, David is not remarried and Gabe is his only child.
Javier’s mother is given the name Yamila (the Spanish form of Jamila), which ties into the name given in the original game “Ya-ya”, while his father is definitely named Rafael.
Clementine flashback
When the outbreak first starts, a walker breaks into Clementine’s home. Sandra, her babysitter, tells Clementine to run before she is bitten. Clementine hides in her treehouse for two days and nights, occasionally coming down to get food and a hammer. Hearing yells and a gunshot, she climbs over the fence and finds Lee after he has killed the reanimated officer…

Season 3, Episode 1:

The flashback from the beginning of Episode 3 takes place, three months after Rafael’s death and reanimation, his wife and Hector getting bitten and David’s disappearance.
One month after leaving the house, Javi, Anita, Gabe and Mariana arrive at the junkyard.
As IOTL, Javi is caught by Max, Badger, Lonnie and Rufus. Here, Badger’s real name is Marty, and “Badger” is a nickname.
During the struggle with Lonnie, instead of knocking Lonnie out, Javi accidentally shoots him in the ear, thus giving the New Frontier more reason to dislike him.
Instead of the truck crash, Javi is taken to the Capricorn slaughterhouse, which is full to the brim with captured walkers. There, Javi meets Clementine and, despite not trusting each other, help each other escape.
Clementine lets all the walkers loose as a distraction.
Just before they make it to safety, Rufus gets caught in a jammed turnstile and bitten. Javi is given the choice of either shooting him or leaving him to be eaten.
Prescott is now slightly darker, with crimes being punishable by hanging. Walkers being hung from noose can be seen around the town.
At Prescott, when Clementine confronts Eli about the dud bullets, Javi grabs Clem’s arm and pulls it away, causing the new (working) bullet to hit the side of Eli’s face instead, scarring him.
Depending on how you treat her, Javier can enter a relationship with Eleanor.
Mariana still dies.
Clementine flashback
Same/similar to OTL, except Kenny and Jane being replaced by Lily and Luke. In the Wellington flashback, the people who attack are explicitly identified as the New Frontier.

Season 3, Episode 2:

Depending on whether you sided with Clementine during the Eli incident and whether you chose to go to the junkyard with him or Eleanor, Tripp’s opinion of you differs, ranging from respect and empathy, or suspicion and jealousy.
After talking to Gabe about what happened at the junkyard, Clementine shows up with the New Frontier hot on her heels, and is let into Prescott by Tripp, thus explaining her presence.
During the hostage scene, the New Frontier is revealed to have had dealings with Prescott before, and Tripp knows Badger by name.
If you choose to surrender yourself, Francine will be saved but Conrad will be killed in the shootout. If you open fire or remain silent, Francine will be killed and Conrad will survive.
Eli survives and escapes Prescott with Javi, Clementine, Gabe, Anita, Tripp, Eleanor and Conrad/Francine.
Jesus does not appear in this story. Instead, they find that the walker herd is a trap set by the New Frontier, and they find a dying New Frontier soldier who confirms that they took over Richmond before expiring.
At the end of the train tunnel, Javi, Clem and Gabe are confronted by Tripp, Conrad/Francine and Eli, not just Conrad. Eli is the one who suggests using Clementine as a bargaining chip. Tripp and Conrad/Francine are open to the idea, but Tripp hates the thought of playing nice with the New Frontier, while Conrad/Francine wants revenge for their dead spouse, but is curious as to why Clementine is no longer part of the group.
When negotiations stall, Eli takes Gabe hostage to force Clem’s hand. You can choose either to take the deal or shoot Eli. If you remain silent, Tripp shoots Eli.
As IOTL, if you choose to use Clementine as a hostage, the confrontation with Max goes more smoothly and quickly.
Clementine flashback
Same as IOTL, but your choice whether to take Ava’s offer or not changes the flashback in the next episode.

Season 3, Episode 3:

When David is showing Javi around Richmond, one of the children playing is specifically named as Ida, Rufus and Fern’s daughter.
Clint is revealed to be something of a coward, which, along with their shared history, explains why he often sides with Joan.
The Capricorn brand is used only by David and the soldiers under his command. They use it as a mark of camaraderie between themselves, or as a mark of shame for criminals whom they choose to leave alive. The difference can be found in whether the burn is treated or not. If it festers/becomes infected, the marked person is a criminal.
As was originally intended, Eleanor is revealed to be Joan’s daughter.
If he is still alive, Eli gets Conrad’s optional death at the warehouse.
After Badger is shot, you can either smash his head in, let Conrad/Francine kill him, or remain silent, in which case Tripp, depending on your choices, either kills him or lets him turn. If you choose to let him turn, you have the option to kick him in the chest before dealing with Max.
Clementine flashback
Same as IOTL, but if you didn’t accept Ava’s offer in the previous episode, David and Doctor Lingard will not show the same familiarity, and Clementine will be treated as a thief and branded, as explained above. AJ is taken away from her, partly as Clementine’s punishment, and partly because Ava (who is partly jealous of Clementine) wants to take care of him.

Season 3, Episode 4:

When Gabe/Anita busts Javi out of his cell, you are given the option of finding and rescuing Max, if you did not kill him in the previous episode. If you do, he reluctantly agrees to help and accompanies you to Eleanor’s apartment.
The specialist does not attack Javi and Gabe at the armoury. Instead, he helps them. He is given the name Salvador, and, as was originally intended, only speaks in Spanish. You learn that, despite his talents, David was one of the only people who could understand him and did not treat him as an outsider.
The suicide deal with Dr Lingard remains.
During the town meeting, Max’s body will be shown alongside Badger’s if he is spared in the previous episode but is not rescued from his cell.
Lonnie reappears as the new head of security and Joan’s new right-hand man if Max was spared in the previous episode. If you accept Clint’s deal, David takes him hostage and shoots him instead of Clint. If you shoot Joan, he will kick the chair out from under David and flee. If Max was killed in the previous episode, Lonnie will be killed by David when he and Javi confront Joan, and his body will be shown alongside Badger and Max, with Fern taking his role.
The no-win deal is now between either Tripp and Conrad/Francine or Ava and Salvador.
As well as wanting to stay in Richmond, Eleanor is conflicted between loyalty to her friends and loyalty to her mother. If Tripp ends up being killed, Eleanor will turn against her but pleads with Javi not to shoot her.
Anita dies when the van crashes into the gas tanker and explodes.
Clementine flashback
Same as IOTL, but with Kenny and Jane replaced with Lily and Luke.

Season 3, Episode 5:

Anita’s walker appears at the beginning of the episode. Either Javi or David will have to put her down.
Javier’s relationship with Eleanor depends on your previous choices. If you picked Tripp and Conrad/Francine to die and/or shot Joan, she will hate you and break off any romance you may have previously had. If you choose not to forgive her for betraying them to Joan, you are given the choice to kill her.
If you spared Max in episode 3, the confrontation with Fern still happens, but Ida is the one who is bitten. Otherwise, her role is taken by Bob (the armoury guard).
When Javier goes to stop the herd, whoever goes with you depends on your choices:
Clementine, Gabe and David will always go.
Eleanor, Max and Clint will always stay.
Tripp/Salvador and Conrad/Francine/Ava will always go unless Javier tells them to stay.
If Francine goes, she will get Ava’s OTL death unless you help her in time.
If Conrad goes, he will get Tripp’s OTL death.
If Tripp goes, he will get his OTL death at the helicopter pass. If Salvador goes, he will panic and fall to his death while trying to jump across the gap.
Now when David tries to leave, Gabe refuses to go with him, making David even angrier with Javi.
When David has Javier pinned to the ground outside the garage, Clementine shoots David in the elbow, allowing Javi to throw him off and get up. You then have to decide whether to help David, let Clementine shoot David, shoot him yourself or leave him to be devoured.
If you choose to help David, he is knocked out and left in the garage while the others stop the herd.
After the herd is stopped and Richmond is cleared out, Joan/Lonnie/Fern is surrendered to the new council, consisting of Javier, Clint, Eleanor and Ava/Tripp/Max. You can choose to kill them, exile them from Richmond, let them stay as prisoners or let them back into the community. For the above decision, your choice will be added to the majority:
Clint favours exile for Joan and Lonnie and forgiveness for Fern.
If Tripp and Conrad/Francine were killed in the previous episode, Eleanor will favour exile for Joan, and death for Lonnie. If Ava and Salvador were executed, she will favour imprisonment for both of them. She will always favour forgiveness for Fern.
Tripp and Ava will favour death or exile for Joan, imprisonment or exile for Lonnie, and imprisonment for Fern.
Max favours death for Joan, imprisonment for Lonnie and forgiveness for Fern.
As was originally intended, you can also determine whether to keep or return the stolen supplies.
If Doctor Lingard is still alive, he will bring AJ to Clementine. Otherwise, depending on your choices, Ava or Eleanor will do so.
Your final choice is to either convince Clementine and David (determinant) to stay in Richmond or head back onto the road.
Alternatively, if Lingard, Eleanor, Tripp, Ava and Max are all dead, Clint will take sole leadership of Richmond and banish the Garcias, Clementine and AJ.

Alternatively, ANF could be entirely separate from Clementine's story, and Clementine's role could be filled by Molly, and AJ could be filled by a (hypothetical) baby by Doctor Logan.

DabigRG · November 2017

Everyone smokes weed, eats Chocolate, pudding, & Blac k Forest Gateau, and has an orgy at David's hearing/execution.

Zombiekiller3121 · November 2017

Better than the story we got.

GohanFGC · December 2017

Tripp's little "Dating Advice" thing gets Scrapped in Episode 4. Clem's "Period" discussion gets replaced with "How is Gabe doing?" allowing the player to Influence Clem's interactions with him going forward. Gabe's snitching is made determinant based on how Javi interacts with him during that scene.

We are left with Just 2 endings in Episode 5, as Clem's flashbacks have no effect. Whoever you decide to go after in Episode 5, Clem goes after the other. The Result: Gabe is No Longer Determinant and Lives No matter what. Kate is STILL determinant and dies if you don't go after her. Finally, David Dies No matter what.

After the Credits, Clem Sees the Mc Carroll Ranch out in the Distance. Cut to Black. To be Continued...

Edit: After that, we would get a 2 and a half hour LONG Closure Episode for Clementine DLC, into the Final Arc.

DabigRG · December 2017

Yeah, a lot of these would've been for the best.

DabigRG · December 2017

Okay, off the record here, here's some stuff I would've done if I were making the game:
Misc.

The flashback gimmick is more prevalent and fleshed out here, as you'll see.
A general vibe around Kate and especially David is that part/much of their characterization would carry the vibe of "Jane and Carver done right."
Gabe is 12 rather than 14 or even 13.
Up until recently, I would've removed Mariana from the plot and be done with it. If I am overruled/reconfigured on the this notion, then she will be retained as Kate's Daughter from a previous encounter and more importantlythus Gabe's step-sister(his relationship/dynamic with her is mostly unaffected).
More onscreen character development and backstory for Kate and to a lesser extent Eleanor.
Ava as an unconventional "Evil" Counterpart and Arc "Villain" for Clementine, seemingly challenging her former friend's capabilities as a parent while taking care of AJ. She's also a minor foil to Gabe, Kate, and Conrad.

Part 1

Javier gets an extra flashback after being taken away by Rufus: It shows his relationship with Kate.
Kenny and Jane's episode 4 flashbacks would be re-adapted here. The only notable changes off the top of my head is that Kenny can be heard coughing a few times in the background and right before the flashback ends; Jane's flashback determinately opens with either her and Patricia putting one last body onto the wheelbarrow or her and Clementine already on the move, with their middle name talk happening on the way to the ditch. There is an extra Wellington flashback where we get to know Edith a little more, see when some of the family members first came to Wellington, and get an indication that they're running out of food and other supplies to give out, with Edith half-heartedly claiming their public survival strategy will do them well in the end.

Part 2

Javier gets an extra flashback[somewhere in the fuckin episode]: It shows his relationship with Gabe&Mariana. Notably, siding against Gabe here does not affect your relationship with him, but siding with him does.
The episode 1 part 1 flashbacks are different in addition to being moved to part 2 after her brief exchange with Gabe in the car:
- Kenny would be on his [eventual] deathbed due to a combination of things and would have already come to grips with it, telling Clementine that she has to be the boss of her and AJ's survival when he's gone.
- Jane's has her and Clementine on the road after Howe's became uninhabitable(again) with Jane having her ghost talk here before they become under a huge walker attack, which leads to the flashback ending with her willingly uses herself as bait when it's apparent there's not many places to run by vocally echoing her old ways to get Clementine and the 1.5/1.75yo AJ to leave her;
- The Wellington Flashback would be more fleshed out as originally intended with the other Gate Guard trying and slowly failing to get the pissed off families to back off.
Tripp is something of a mentor figure for Javier and a voice of reason for the group alongside Kate.

Above the Law

David is revealed to have truly been the one in charge of the Raids as part of a greater plan. As for whether he came up with it or not, I'm still mulling over the extent of his reach Compared to Alderman Mason.
Javier has an extra flashback here[somewhere]: the Episode 4 flashback is moved here.
David is dethroned and in a sense hijacked by Joan, who learned about the raids from Max/Badger a little while back but told them to play along until she gave them further instructions. Now, she's playing damage control in an effort to cover up what David and Badger have done. This is mainly to maintain/repair Richmond's relationship with the outside world while still holding onto the supplies until after The next long Winter is over.
Clementine willingly left the New Frontier because she committed a grievous crime while among them. She didn't want to go into Richmond after learning they were there because AJ was living there after she gave him up and she was afraid [another] one of David's soldiers would put 2&2 together.
- Badger's actions are more clearly stated/emphasized to be out of control and outside of the game plan.

Thicker than Water

Javier has two extra flashbacks in this episode: the first one is the episode 5 flashback.
The episode 4 Kenny/Jane flashbacks are removed. Instead, Clementine has another flashback showing off her friendship with Ava a little more--possibly including her first time near Prescott. This further hints at the idea that Ava may actually be quite fatalistic despite her chummy disposition, encouraging words, and motherly undertones. The episode 4 flashback plays afterward. And Ava's reaction to seeing Clementine again in the present is influenced by both.
Javier has his second flashback after Gabe compliments Clementine(yes, I know the pacing/timing is kinda bad here): It shows his unintentionally distant relationship with Gabe.
Gabe's determinant outburst is given more buildup here:
- If she's convinced to stay depending on your relationship with her, Clementine and Gabe come into minor conflict regarding David depending on your respective relationships with them(particularly if you were pro-Clementine and/or Kate, but not good with Gabe throughout). Eleanor/Kate will back her/him up, respectively.
- - It is possible for a fight to break out between the two. Javier has four choices: . If he doesn't do anything, Kate will break them up and get between them. She will tranquilly scold Clementine not to touch Gabe and then ask him if he's hurt after a few seconds, to which he claims no(while Clementine gets in considerably more hits, it can be seen that he hits a little harder). Kate replies with a "Good..." and slowly calms(or to the keen of eye, steels) herself with a fairly deep breathe...and then she turns around and slaps Gabe to the floor/ground. The flabbergasted boy simply stares straight back up in a crept back position as Kate intensely reprimands him for laying his hands on a girl.
- Instead of being blatantly railroaded, Javier is given a choice to support Gabe when Tripp singles him out. However, be warned that this can damage your determinately already festering relationships with Clementine and Kate.
- Clementine .
Eleanor/&/Conrad's relationship to Joan/Ava is revealed/implied here.
If she left, Clementine has a playable section after the truck is stolen: she goes to talk to Ava at what's implied to be her walk-in-closet/basement with a small mattress/sleepingbag(the point is its a relatively bowel-like place from someone of her status to live in), who turns somewhat/very antagonistic when she realizes Clementine's searching for AJ. She reveals that she and Dr. Lingard were the ones who took care of AJ and helped him get better behind David's back. After some convincing/arguing with her, she will defeatedly reveal that Lingard's men came to take AJ away from her not so recently and when she stormed his office in outrage, he simply claimed he couldn't tell her what happened to AJ even if he wanted to. When he wouldn't tell her despite her unusual threatening(his guards were a step away from detaining her) or even look her in the eye, her heart broke--again. She and Clementine negatively part with the implication that she has work to do.

From the Gallows

Javier does NOT have a first flashback here: this is where the scene of David creating the Capricorn symbol policy is re-implimented, with David going first to set an example for his men. The flashback ends with the various screams(voiced by Sean Lynch, Grace Hsin, Ali Johnson, Jon Curry, Charles Halford, Rebecca Schweitzer, Jayne Tiani(?), Jeff Schine, Andrew Heyl(?), Job J. Stauffer, Yuri Lowenthal(?), and Melissa Hutchinson) are heard as the game loads the Title Screen.
The Four Part Civil War is retained.
David's followers, lead by Gabe/Ava, Fern, Max, and/or Shades-Chick, would storm the "Hearing" stage to free him so he can lead a threeway civil war.
Max is Fern's husband and Ida's father. He was conflicted on the raids in part because he wanted to support them.

DabigRG · December 2017

Seconded.

Melton23 · December 2017

Removal of QTE’s

I play to bash brains in, not to watch people talk 24/7 like a freaking soap opera ? that would sound boring af.

DabigRG · December 2017

#Season1Sucks

MRSHYGUY45 · December 2017

...So I guess you disliked Season One?

Melton23 · December 2017

Season one actually had quick time events though, I don’t want them to be completely removed

MRSHYGUY45 · December 2017

You’re right. I just don’t want The Final Season to have lots of QTEs every 3 seconds like in ANF.

Melton23 · December 2017

As long as they’re in there and are used the right amount of times then I’m fine with that. Although I did like ANF’s QTE’s

patrickrc95 · December 2017

Here's the SHORT version of MY solution. 2 Words: "Fewer Rewrites."

Here's the Longer Version. Make the story the way it was SUPPOSE to be BEFORE all the Rewrites happened, Minus a few MINOR details here and there based upon Fan-Feedback when necessary as the story progresses.

cutupuss- · January 2018

First episode should introduce Javier and his family at the start, but the rest of the episode should've been dedicated to clementines flashback. Episode 2 should've been 2 hours or so and included the rest of episode 1 and 2.

Wiso2kinfinity · January 2018

Shoulda never fucked the script and made javi in the first place...season 2's endings weren't meant to continue the way it did in anf at all.

DabigRG · January 2018

Season 2's endings by definition would've needed to be strayed from anyway to have any stable base for gameplay and storytelling.

UrbanRodrik · January 2018

this is probably a stupid idea but:
couldnt they have made Jane and Kenny just be in Richmond as background characters instead of killing them off? For example: Kenny still keeps the car crash scene but survives it so Kenny is forced to stay with the new frontier due to his legs and when you actually see him again he would be in crutches so it would be impossible to have him participate in taking down Joan while Jane could just leave Clem... Since telltale was willing to have her kill herself leaving Clem and AJ alone Jane leaving Clem and staying at the New frontier would be way more believable than her flashback.
How to make her not a big part of the season? Simple make her a scout like Tavia since Jane always did good on her Own and only have her return in episode 5 in the middle of the chaos while doing the walker gut trick to get thought the herd. Eh this is probably just a stupid idea thought since i have no idea how to fit in Edith with this.

DabigRG · January 2018

couldnt they have made Jane and Kenny just be in Richmond as background characters instead of killing them off

I've seen this suggested in the past and I suppose it could've work. I can't say I would've trusted Telltale to pull it off gracefully with the latter in particular, though.

i have no idea how to fit in Edith with this.

Honestly, Edith is the one who deserved the most screentime in my opinion.

GohanFGC · January 2018

Here's a couple other changes I woulda added:

Making Gabe SLIGHTLY Less down and SLIGHTLY More sensible after talking to him in the Junkyard Hub in Episode 1, depending on what dialogue you choose. If the Player can get Gabe to smile, then instead of just simply telling Javier "Maybe just leave me alone," it would instead lead to a follow-up dialogue regarding himself and Kate, with Gabe showing self-awareness. This would THEN lead to him actually THANKING Javier for understanding and being patient with him.
Making Gabe just A BIT more helpful during the Sequence at the Junkyard. I would have HIM be the one to go into the Crawlspace under the Trailer and unlock the door instead of Javier (Sorta like what Clem use to do on occasion back in Season 1).
Giving Mariana's tape-player some actual purpose. I would turn the area where Gabe was venting against the walker outside the walls of Prescott into a hub. Here you would have to convince Gabe to talk to you. Making him smile in Episode 1, as I previously mentioned, would make getting his attention easier. Giving him Mariana's Tape-player would help as well.

DabigRG · January 2018

Making Gabe SLIGHTLY Less down and SLIGHTLY More sensible after talking to him in the Junkyard Hub in Episode 1, depending on what dialogue you choose. If the Player can get Gabe to smile, then instead of just simply telling Javier "Maybe just leave me alone," it would instead lead to a follow-up dialogue regarding himself and Kate, with Gabe showing self-awareness. This would THEN lead to him actually THANKING Javier for understanding and being patient with him.

This is pretty interesting. I can't believe I never thought of this specific scenario myself.

Making Gabe just A BIT more helpful during the Sequence at the Junkyard. I would have HIM be the one to go into the Crawlspace under the Trailer and unlock the door instead of Javier (Sorta like what Clem use to do on occasion back in Season 1).

Nice. Though come to think of it, he comes up through the crawlspace alongside Javier anyway, so I kinda have to wonder why that wasn't an option.

Giving Mariana's tape-player some actual purpose. I would turn the area where Gabe was venting against the walker outside the walls of Prescott into a hub. Here you would have to convince Gabe to talk to you. Making him smile in Episode 1, as I previously mentioned, would make getting his attention easier. Giving him Mariana's Tape-player would help as well.

Huh.
Also, it was mentioned in the AMA that keeping it was originally supposed to give you the option to give it to David in the next episode.

SolidStryder · January 2018

I dunno. Jane's would be the only scenario that presents too much of an issue, I'm not sure how far the hardware store is from Wellington. It would change the prologues about as much as it would change the flashbacks, and you'd really only have to take the Mass Effect route and do what they did for the KIAs. Barring some differences in dialogue, all 3 could easily serve in the same role in relation to Clementine and Wellington is the most likely place she'd end up at some point in every ending but Janes.

If you stay in Wellington, you're in Wellington. If you leave with Kenny, Edith(that's the woman at the gate, correct?) tells them to check back in a few months. If you're alone, you already know about Wellington, Clem and Christa were headed in search of a community like it anyway so it's only logical she seeks it out. If you're with Jane, tragic rope accident, commence alone ending.

All in all, it was a pretty big point of focus since the first episode of S2. Scrap Richmond and the desperate desire for a newcomer friendly protagonist/forced comic tie in and follow up on Wellington.

How would you have realistically fixed New Frontier’s story?

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