What, like Kenny sacrificing himself as a paralyzed crash dummy?
Look, you got to see that family guy either disappear after moving to prevent Christa from paying for a dumb mistake he made, preferably atone for his selfishness by trying to save Ben after the boy suffers a sudden collapse, die recognizing how broken he is and even admitting that he's ironically a little scared of death after wanting for a while, and giving a heartfelt speech so Clementine and AJ can be let into a safe haven he's been desperately searching for without him. And hell, even that last scenario still has you dumb going out fighting so Clementine and AJ can live theme and the small promise that keeping up with his hat in the Wellington scenario may come back into play.
No matter how much you were supposedly let down by ANF or negatively affected by how it treated past characters, it can never take away the fact that you still many many memories of that artifact in particular to fall back on that will unfortunately never not be a big deal to a disproportionate amount of people, which is WAY more than almost everyone else can say. Man up, Tails!
What, like Kenny sacrificing himself as a paralyzed crash dummy?
Look, you got to see that family guy either disappear after moving to pre… morevent Christa from paying for a dumb mistake he made, preferably atone for his selfishness by trying to save Ben after the boy suffers a sudden collapse, die recognizing how broken he is and even admitting that he's ironically a little scared of death after wanting for a while, and giving a heartfelt speech so Clementine and AJ can be let into a safe haven he's been desperately searching for without him. And hell, even that last scenario still has you dumb going out fighting so Clementine and AJ can live theme and the small promise that keeping up with his hat in the Wellington scenario may come back into play.
No matter how much you were supposedly let down by ANF or negatively affected by how it treated past characters, it can never take away the fact that you still many many memories of that artifact … [view original content]
I mean he's completely entitled to his opinion. I like sad stories as much as the next person. ANF didn't really ruin anything for me. Just because it didn't end with every person dead, or lost doesn't mean it wasn't a somber story without loss. Mariana's death was tragic. Javi and David's relationship was always twisting me. My favorite scene where David is going to kill Javi and you have the choice to fight back or keep your promise to your father.
Are you in favor of a linear story in Season 4? I've been posing the question of having different arcs culminating from choices from Seasons 1, 2 and 3. To me it'd be cool to have a completely different mid to ending than someone else. Sure it'd be more work, but it'd be a staple to the franchise and a fun little twist to their formula.
I have no hopes anymore cause** A New Frontier ruined everything that made Season 1 so good**, I even doubt Telltale will redeem themselves with The Final Season.
...How? Like, I want a serious answer to this.
You don't have to defend your opinion. It's fine that your experience left you wanting more out of it. I really liked it. I think the Javi/David relationship dynamics were really well done.
Like I've been asking everyone.. Would you be cool with very unique branching paths in Season 4? Like to the degree of 6 different mid games and 12 different endings (2 different endings per mid game). Or would you be more of a fan of the nearly linear way they've done their previous seasons where you start and end at the same point with different determinants?
I think the 10 minutes thing isn't true. I tried to look at it. To me as a player I felt like the game is intentionally waving that in my face about limbs being cut off and telling me they live. I think in ANF when it was mentioned it didn't really have much to do with what was going on it was like side chatter. I honestly feel and hope they bring the living Lee back for those that never gave up on him.
But I've written this in every comment. I'd like us all the have fairly unique experiences in Season 4. Go big and bold right? I'd be happy with the same type of blueprint that they've used for all the seasons. All players start and end the same, but what an opportunity it'd be to try and curtail the journey. Or maybe give us BIG choices to make to have distinctly different divergent directions. (how's that for alliteration? )
Hey his opinion of games is fine! Telltale designed this game with many different ways to interpret things. Each season definitely strike someone's chord differently.
I hated Kenny. He was the worst kind of survivor in my opinion. The ones that only care about "their team". It's the easy way out and I always saw him as too weak to be humane. Time after time he continued to lose people and his response was to become more despondent and violent. He became cutthroat and barbaric (probably mentally ill too). That's not the kind of person I want Clementine to learn from. My version of Lee was about teaching her to survive, but also trying to keep her humanity intact. The bigger picture in my eyes is if everyone devolves into a monster the world is doomed. The hard part is balancing when to defend yourself, end someone, or show mercy.
If you've seen the show there's a character named Morgan that meets a man named Eastman who brings him back from nearly losing his mind. Morgan adopts Eastman's code to not kill humans and that "all life is precious". Carol is another character in the group that has the opposite philosophy. She will kill anyone a danger to the group. Morgan's philosophy obviously nearly gets people killed. Morgan is forced to adjust his stance to save Carol's life by killing someone about to kill her.
No character in the game reminds me of Morgan after he takes that balanced approach except for my version of Lee. In my eyes it's the only way to live while also preserving humanity.
What, like Kenny sacrificing himself as a paralyzed crash dummy?
Look, you got to see that family guy either disappear after moving to pre… morevent Christa from paying for a dumb mistake he made, preferably atone for his selfishness by trying to save Ben after the boy suffers a sudden collapse, die recognizing how broken he is and even admitting that he's ironically a little scared of death after wanting for a while, and giving a heartfelt speech so Clementine and AJ can be let into a safe haven he's been desperately searching for without him. And hell, even that last scenario still has you dumb going out fighting so Clementine and AJ can live theme and the small promise that keeping up with his hat in the Wellington scenario may come back into play.
No matter how much you were supposedly let down by ANF or negatively affected by how it treated past characters, it can never take away the fact that you still many many memories of that artifact … [view original content]
I don’t think any of us gave up on Lee. If you chose to leave him to see him die and if you choose to shoot him you only see the gun fire.
4:30 onwards. Tell me that does not look like Lee just died infront of our own eyes.
I think the 10 minutes thing isn't true. I tried to look at it. To me as a player I felt like the game is intentionally waving that in my fa… morece about limbs being cut off and telling me they live. I think in ANF when it was mentioned it didn't really have much to do with what was going on it was like side chatter. I honestly feel and hope they bring the living Lee back for those that never gave up on him.
But I've written this in every comment. I'd like us all the have fairly unique experiences in Season 4. Go big and bold right? I'd be happy with the same type of blueprint that they've used for all the seasons. All players start and end the same, but what an opportunity it'd be to try and curtail the journey. Or maybe give us BIG choices to make to have distinctly different divergent directions. (how's that for alliteration? )
It's open ended to me. The virus or infection could be killing him. Or he is exhausted and has been stretched to his limits. No matter what he's in serious trouble and needs medical help. As Lee and Clem are maneuvering away from the Marsh house Clem encounters her parents and Lee faints is pretty much the same way. There's no doubt the game designers want you to give up on Lee. Move on from him. But they also gave me too many choices to try and preserve him. To the point where it's open ended. All endings should be shown as a definitive death. How can Lee pass out and then die in nearly the same kind of animation and the player not wonder well maybe he passed out again? How can I be certain? But it's better for Clem to go since Lee is so banged up she'll never get him out safely.
I trust the game designers and this series has been masterfully crafted. For a game ALL about choices I find deliberate that there is one sequence of choices that leave enough bread crumbs for the possibility of Lee's survival in the player's eyes. They definitely want to allude to you he's gone, but If they wanted to move on from him they should have made definitively dead (like show him turn) and not leave any room for doubt with all the possible player choice avenues. It's either a monumental flaw of Season 1. Or a beautifully crafted plan from the start. Or a horrible mistake depending on who you ask. https://youtu.be/i_ej3t8jvhw?t=8h29m52s
I don’t think any of us gave up on Lee. If you chose to leave him to see him die and if you choose to shoot him you only see the gun fire.
4:30 onwards. Tell me that does not look like Lee just died infront of our own eyes.
Yeah, well I wanted Mariana to live but my choices didn’t help much, did they? And the only choice I remember that would allow us to preserve him is cutting his arm off, but that was after he fainted. I don’t know about you but I’ve never known anyone to faint because of a few marks on their arm that they got an hour before the incident.
Btw pls don’t argue that Mari is still alive cos u can make certain choices, cos she took a bullet to the brain and buried 2 ft under ?
It's open ended to me. The virus or infection could be killing him. Or he is exhausted and has been stretched to his limits. No matter what … morehe's in serious trouble and needs medical help. As Lee and Clem are maneuvering away from the Marsh house Clem encounters her parents and Lee faints is pretty much the same way. There's no doubt the game designers want you to give up on Lee. Move on from him. But they also gave me too many choices to try and preserve him. To the point where it's open ended. All endings should be shown as a definitive death. How can Lee pass out and then die in nearly the same kind of animation and the player not wonder well maybe he passed out again? How can I be certain? But it's better for Clem to go since Lee is so banged up she'll never get him out safely.
I trust the game designers and this series has been masterfully crafted. For a game ALL about choices I find deliberate that there is one sequence of choices tha… [view original content]
But they also gave me too many choices to try and preserve him. To the point where it's open ended.
I don’t think they’re giving options to “preserve” him, he’s had his arm sawed off after being bitten, exhausted after fighting and has fainted so he’s obviously turning. There is nothing that could be done to save him at this point. It’s time to move on.
All endings should be shown as a definitive death.
That would be bad writing, besides Lee’s death is already sad as it is, there’s no need to see it, the gunshot is enough.
It's open ended to me. The virus or infection could be killing him. Or he is exhausted and has been stretched to his limits. No matter what … morehe's in serious trouble and needs medical help. As Lee and Clem are maneuvering away from the Marsh house Clem encounters her parents and Lee faints is pretty much the same way. There's no doubt the game designers want you to give up on Lee. Move on from him. But they also gave me too many choices to try and preserve him. To the point where it's open ended. All endings should be shown as a definitive death. How can Lee pass out and then die in nearly the same kind of animation and the player not wonder well maybe he passed out again? How can I be certain? But it's better for Clem to go since Lee is so banged up she'll never get him out safely.
I trust the game designers and this series has been masterfully crafted. For a game ALL about choices I find deliberate that there is one sequence of choices tha… [view original content]
I hear these examples being used, but it's blatantly one sided and disingenuous to compare those examples.
This is purely speculation, my view is that Lilly plays a role in Season 4 based on Telltale saying a Season 1 character will be in Season 4. I think if Lee lives the major "butterfly" decisions would have to be..
1.) Refusing to leave Lilly behind. (I suspect she may have tailed Lee and can potentially bring him to safety, or verify his death depending on what you choose.)
2.) Cutting off Lee's arm. (Lee looks healthier if you cut it off.)
3.) Not asking Clem to shoot Lee. (Leaves Lee's ending open ended if you cut off his arm).
If I'm wrong I'm fine, but you see why me and players like me that see it this way would want a more concrete image that Lee is dead/turned. If they have no plans to give an outcome with living Lee, I would want some sort of way to revisit Savannah.
Just don't be mad at me for seeing things this way. Understand some people need way too much evidence to come to terms with something tragic. Otherwise if you played through the game like me you're left with just enough doubt to be hopeful. Which makes it hard to let it go.
Yeah, well I wanted Mariana to live but my choices didn’t help much, did they? And the only choice I remember that would allow us to preserv… moree him is cutting his arm off, but that was after he fainted. I don’t know about you but I’ve never known anyone to faint because of a few marks on their arm that they got an hour before the incident.
Btw pls don’t argue that Mari is still alive cos u can make certain choices, cos she took a bullet to the brain and buried 2 ft under ?
I’m not mad. Just confused as to why you think he could live is all, despite showing all of the signs of the fever. Even his freaking eyes go yellow, even if you cut his arm off, so I think that’s enough solid evidence that he is pretty much a goner.
I hear these examples being used, but it's blatantly one sided and disingenuous to compare those examples.
This is purely speculation, my… more view is that Lilly plays a role in Season 4 based on Telltale saying a Season 1 character will be in Season 4. I think if Lee lives the major "butterfly" decisions would have to be..
1.) Refusing to leave Lilly behind. (I suspect she may have tailed Lee and can potentially bring him to safety, or verify his death depending on what you choose.)
2.) Cutting off Lee's arm. (Lee looks healthier if you cut it off.)
3.) Not asking Clem to shoot Lee. (Leaves Lee's ending open ended if you cut off his arm).
If I'm wrong I'm fine, but you see why me and players like me that see it this way would want a more concrete image that Lee is dead/turned. If they have no plans to give an outcome with living Lee, I would want some sort of way to revisit Savannah.
Just don't be mad at me for seeing things this way.… [view original content]
The passing out can be seen either way. You can just as easily attribute it to chopping off the arm with continual blood loss or going into shock after adrenaline wears off. Or you can say he didn't cut his arm off in time and he'll die from the virus.
I don't see your truth and worse or better than mine. All I'm saying is if the devs wanted to push Lee into the afterlife they gave too many decisions that you can rationally say he might actually not be dead from the virus.
There was a dev on another forum that wrote "Lee was bit. He is dead." which is probably what they wanted, but I don't really believe them. I think they want me to believe it so they can gut me in Season 4 with a twist depending on choices. But you have to admit if it's that much of a question they have to write what they actually intended it's either clever misdirection or very poor game design and thus they should clean it up IN GAME.
But they also gave me too many choices to try and preserve him. To the point where it's open ended.
I don’t think they’re giving opt… moreions to “preserve” him, he’s had his arm sawed off after being bitten, exhausted after fighting and has fainted so he’s obviously turning. There is nothing that could be done to save him at this point. It’s time to move on.
All endings should be shown as a definitive death.
That would be bad writing, besides Lee’s death is already sad as it is, there’s no need to see it, the gunshot is enough.
This is almost always what the conversation turns to.. Random finger points that don't coincide with the walking dead universe. I'm going to have to have you clarify the 'yellow eyes" and point it out. Zombie's eyes are not yellow. The pupils have a white sheen and that sometimes look cloudy. Think Nuclear sclerosis in dogs type of cloudy. Unless Jaundice is a byproduct of the virus and I'm completely blind I don't see yellow unless the game lighting is... yellow..?
BUT WE NEED TO CLARIFY THIS... It's easy to forget how you become the undead. EVERYONE has the virus. It doesn't matter how you die. Any way you die there's a dormant virus inside everyone that reanimates the body through restarting part of the brain.
When people are bit they are not "infected", because they are already infected. You always get sick from a bite because they are undead filth. Your body has a natural defense to infections which is to increase your internal temp. That fever is what burns the person up and they die.
You cannot tell the difference between an infection from being bit and an infection from hacking your arm off. The symptoms are the same. There is no way to tell. However, humans have been shown to recover from bacterial infections with antibiotics. In Tim Kirkman's universe they have not been shown to be able to treat a bite through antibiotics.
The only way to survive a bite is to hack off the limb if they are fortunate enough to be bit on a limb. And every individual is different, we don't know how long they need before it's too late. I don't see how you can fault me for questioning Lee's symptoms. The preservation decisions were made and the logic is completely consistent with the series.
Does that help you see why I see things as open ended? Telltale knows the rules. I keep saying this. It would be a monumental blunder for them to not see why players that followed my path felt confused with Lee's outcome. If they wanted Lee gone forever, they should have made it crystal clear. Which it absolutely is not.
I’m not mad. Just confused as to why you think he could live is all, despite showing all of the signs of the fever. Even his freaking eyes go yellow, even if you cut his arm off, so I think that’s enough solid evidence that he is pretty much a goner.
Since when has a normal human being who has not fallen ill under some sort of crazy disease had yellow eyes? I’m not saying they’re zombie eyes, because no way is he healthy with those things.
Bites kill you, no way around it, and Lee didn’t cut it off in time. And if you want me to start getting desperate about my point, I have viewed a great many of Kirkman’s Q&A’s/panels, as well as other Skybound events, and I have also read some of the comics and have watched every episode of the show, while also played all seasons and every episode, so I know it is IMPOSSIBLE for Lee to still be alive, considering it has been confirmed by the man who created the walking dead and has been maintaining it since 2003, and when he says you can’t come back from a bite, I think I’m more willing to believe him than believing in a dialogue option which is basically saying “leave the dying man alone”
Furthermore, Lee’s skin goes COMPLETELY pale, which is another sign that his infection is setting in, he can’t move, he has no strength, he even struggled to kick the baseball bat over to Clementine. Know who else has that little strength? Somebody who is dying.
And I know you are arguing for the “cut his arm off” scenario, but I’ll just add that if u kept the arm u can see it limping like it completely has no life left in it.
Next, we have the fact that Clementine herself states that Lee is dead, and she was there, she saw him die, she shared his last moments, it is impossible for her to be mistaken.
Finally, Telltale said so and they literally have no reason to lie to us for about 5-6 years. P.S bringing Lee back to life would start to make season 1 look like a bad game even though it wasn’t, considering the most tear jerking moment would turn out to be a fake out, completely stripping the game, or at least the episode, of all of its magic.
This is almost always what the conversation turns to.. Random finger points that don't coincide with the walking dead universe. I'm going to… more have to have you clarify the 'yellow eyes" and point it out. Zombie's eyes are not yellow. The pupils have a white sheen and that sometimes look cloudy. Think Nuclear sclerosis in dogs type of cloudy. Unless Jaundice is a byproduct of the virus and I'm completely blind I don't see yellow unless the game lighting is... yellow..?
BUT WE NEED TO CLARIFY THIS... It's easy to forget how you become the undead. EVERYONE has the virus. It doesn't matter how you die. Any way you die there's a dormant virus inside everyone that reanimates the body through restarting part of the brain.
When people are bit they are not "infected", because they are already infected. You always get sick from a bite because they are undead filth. Your body has a natural defense to infections which is to increase your internal tem… [view original content]
Since when has a normal human being who has not fallen ill under some sort of crazy disease had yellow eyes? I’m not saying they’re zombie e… moreyes, because no way is he healthy with those things.
Bites kill you, no way around it, and Lee didn’t cut it off in time. And if you want me to start getting desperate about my point, I have viewed a great many of Kirkman’s Q&A’s/panels, as well as other Skybound events, and I have also read some of the comics and have watched every episode of the show, while also played all seasons and every episode, so I know it is IMPOSSIBLE for Lee to still be alive, considering it has been confirmed by the man who created the walking dead and has been maintaining it since 2003, and when he says you can’t come back from a bite, I think I’m more willing to believe him than believing in a dialogue option which is basically saying “leave the dying man alone”
Furthermore, Lee’s skin goes COMPLETELY pale, which i… [view original content]
So we agree that we can't know the difference between the bite infection vs a surgical infection.
Actually, you can know in Lee’s case. Though, only present in the video game, one symptom of being bitten is the sclera, the white part of the eye, becoming a pale yellow. This can be seen in both Lee and Pete when they were turning.
To why their eyes turn cloudy, I’m not quite sure but one reason I’ve heard is that they don’t blink, so they become damaged over time.
So we agree that we can't know the difference between the bite infection vs a surgical infection.
Ok. Do we know definitively how long a person has to remove a limb once it's bitten?
On the wiki is does say pale yellow sclera as a game only symptom. Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia from a severe infection. What we're seeing is Lee has an infection. The infection is either from poor post surgical care from sawing off his arm, or the bite. We cannot assume either of them is right or wrong because you cannot discern the difference between the infections.
If the developers showed him turn that'd erase all doubt. But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended. There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live. Does this mean I'm right? No, if I'm wrong it shows a game design flaw. They should have made his death clear as crystal.
So we agree that we can't know the difference between the bite infection vs a surgical infection.
Actually, you can know in Lee’s ca… morese. Though, only present in the video game, one symptom of being bitten is the sclera, the white part of the eye, becoming a pale yellow. This can be seen in both Lee and Pete when they were turning.
To why their eyes turn cloudy, I’m not quite sure but one reason I’ve heard is that they don’t blink, so they become damaged over time.
On the wiki is does say pale yellow sclera as a game only symptom. Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia from a severe inf… moreection. What we're seeing is Lee has an infection. The infection is either from poor post surgical care from sawing off his arm, or the bite. We cannot assume either of them is right or wrong because you cannot discern the difference between the infections.
If the developers showed him turn that'd erase all doubt. But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended. There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live. Does this mean I'm right? No, if I'm wrong it shows a game design flaw. They should have made his death clear as crystal.
So we agree that we can't know the difference between the bite infection vs a surgical infection.
Ok. Do we know definitively how long a person has to remove a limb once it's bitten?
I have a theory as to why Telltale didn't show the player Lee's death. They wanted to spare the player from extra pain. Having to force a little girl to shoot or leave Lee was hard enough (although, I guess you could of let her decide for herself), but if we were forced to watch the light drain from Lee's eyes or see his brain splattered into a thousand pieces, that would of been absolute emotional murder. I personally really like this effect. Telltale was trying to keep the player innocent so we could better relate with Clem next season.
Now that I type this, I realize that seeing Lee's body could be a good thing. We didn't see Lee's death at first so that Clem could remain innocent. Seeing Lee's body could show her finally growing to maturity. It could set up a great ending to the series. It just needs to be pulled off correctly.
Huh. Seanao, I'm on your side now.
I have a theory as to why Telltale didn't show the player Lee's death. They wanted to spare the player from extra pain. Having to force a li… morettle girl to shoot or leave Lee was hard enough (although, I guess you could of let her decide for herself), but if we were forced to watch the light drain from Lee's eyes or see his brain splattered into a thousand pieces, that would of been absolute emotional murder. I personally really like this effect. Telltale was trying to keep the player innocent so we could better relate with Clem next season.
Now that I type this, I realize that seeing Lee's body could be a good thing. We didn't see Lee's death at first so that Clem could remain innocent. Seeing Lee's body could show her finally growing to maturity. It could set up a great ending to the series. It just needs to be pulled off correctly.
Huh. Seanao, I'm on your side now.
Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia a severe infection
Seriously, what are the chances Lee, after cutting his arm off, getting an infection which developes into a blood disorder destroying blood cells and turns the sclera yellow?
But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended.
So, he either has a severe infection without antibiotics or he’s bitten. In this situation, I doubt there is any hope of him surviving.
There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live...They should have made his death clear as crystal.
Why does it need to be crystal clear, in mine Clem shot him, she even admits he’s dead in diologue options. Why would she have a reason to lie? And Lee wouldn’t live if Clem left, he’s handcuffed to a radiator he’d starve or die of dehydration. Besides, would you actually want to see Lee’s brain splattered on a wall? It’s already sad enough and would ruin the effect of a great ending.
On the wiki is does say pale yellow sclera as a game only symptom. Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia from a severe inf… moreection. What we're seeing is Lee has an infection. The infection is either from poor post surgical care from sawing off his arm, or the bite. We cannot assume either of them is right or wrong because you cannot discern the difference between the infections.
If the developers showed him turn that'd erase all doubt. But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended. There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live. Does this mean I'm right? No, if I'm wrong it shows a game design flaw. They should have made his death clear as crystal.
Dude, Lee’s Dead. It’s over for him. There’s absolutely no way he survived after being bit if you didn’t cut off his arm. Even if you did, he’s still handcuffed with his last arm. If he “lived”, he would’ve died of starvation or dehydration.
There’s no theory or anything like that. Lee Everett is straight up dead. That’s like saying Gabe survived his bite even after he got shot. Once your bit and you don’t cut off the limb immediately, your dead.
On the wiki is does say pale yellow sclera as a game only symptom. Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia from a severe inf… moreection. What we're seeing is Lee has an infection. The infection is either from poor post surgical care from sawing off his arm, or the bite. We cannot assume either of them is right or wrong because you cannot discern the difference between the infections.
If the developers showed him turn that'd erase all doubt. But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended. There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live. Does this mean I'm right? No, if I'm wrong it shows a game design flaw. They should have made his death clear as crystal.
Tuberculosis could be another example (A lot of people have it, and it can cause yellow eyes). Sanitation standards in TWD world are worse than third world nations. You'd have to imagine being bit by the undead would introduce a plethora of disease and bacteria into the body. That's why everyone dies of infection like symptoms.
You cannot tell reliably the difference in infections. There is nothing unique in a bite other than it's concentration and potency of the bacteria.
But you don't understand what I'm saying here. Shooting Lee allows the player to know Lee is dead because you killed him. Leaving Lee doesn't allow you to see that crucial moment. It's hard to move on. And as you ponder about it and well was there a way he could live? Yes (not without help). But yes it's plausible he's really sick and someone finds him. There's only one avenue of decisions that leaves the possibility open.
If I'm supposed to move on, my ending should be just as conclusive as yours. Part of the player base depending on the ending shouldn't left scratching their heads wondering what Lee was actually suffering from. It'd definitely put more significance on the in game decisions.
Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia a severe infection
Seriously, what are the chances Lee, after cutting his ar… morem off, getting an infection which developes into a blood disorder destroying blood cells and turns the sclera yellow?
But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended.
So, he either has a severe infection without antibiotics or he’s bitten. In this situation, I doubt there is any hope of him surviving.
There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live...They should have made his death clear as crystal.
Why does it need to be crystal clear, in mine Clem shot him, she even admits he’s dead in diologue options. Why would she have a reason to lie? And Lee wouldn’t live if Clem left, he’s handcuffed to a radiator he’d starve or die of dehydration. Besides, woul… [view original content]
Actually you can determinantley handcuff the walker or just completely ignore the cuffs altogether. But still, it is 100% impossible for Lee to be alive either way, we’ve seen him with the illness, exactly the same as duck had when he was bitten, so we know for a fact he is infected, no matter what anybody chose
Dude, Lee’s Dead. It’s over for him. There’s absolutely no way he survived after being bit if you didn’t cut off his arm. Even if you did, h… moree’s still handcuffed with his last arm. If he “lived”, he would’ve died of starvation or dehydration.
There’s no theory or anything like that. Lee Everett is straight up dead. That’s like saying Gabe survived his bite even after he got shot. Once your bit and you don’t cut off the limb immediately, your dead.
There is no identified time range from bitten to amputation. The sooner the better is the obvious answer. In the game Lee is bitten and then the very next scene is the option to remove his arm. It's tough to say, but impossible to know.
Dude, Lee’s Dead. It’s over for him. There’s absolutely no way he survived after being bit if you didn’t cut off his arm. Even if you did, h… moree’s still handcuffed with his last arm. If he “lived”, he would’ve died of starvation or dehydration.
There’s no theory or anything like that. Lee Everett is straight up dead. That’s like saying Gabe survived his bite even after he got shot. Once your bit and you don’t cut off the limb immediately, your dead.
Time had past between those two scenes though. Besides, we don’t really need to know specifically, just that a tourniquet needs to be applied and limb cut off immediately because Pete’s symptoms started to show real fast.
There is no identified time range from bitten to amputation. The sooner the better is the obvious answer. In the game Lee is bitten and then the very next scene is the option to remove his arm. It's tough to say, but impossible to know.
There isn't an "illness" from being bit. The virus is dormant in the body until death. What people experience when bitten is a severe infection. There is an ungodly amount of bacteria in the world. You'd figure a zombie's mouth is just filth. The bites are lethal because of the potency and concentration being received. But these same bacteria are found normally as well. Any untreated would in a non sterile environment will have a high risk for infections.
You cannot tell the difference between the infections. There's nothing special in the bites. So. All we know was Lee was fighting an infection from his lost limb, or if he was too late, the bite. If it was the bite, he's surely dead, but if it was for his arm we don't know what may have happened to him. (If no one stumbles upon him he'll most likely be dead, but we don't know.)
If Telltale wanted to and I think they do they could make an ending with a living Lee, and I don't see any problems with that.
Actually you can determinantley handcuff the walker or just completely ignore the cuffs altogether. But still, it is 100% impossible for Lee… more to be alive either way, we’ve seen him with the illness, exactly the same as duck had when he was bitten, so we know for a fact he is infected, no matter what anybody chose
Time had past between those two scenes though. Besides, we don’t really need to know specifically, just that a tourniquet needs to be applied and limb cut off immediately because Pete’s symptoms started to show real fast.
PS: happy new year
I find your post hard to take seriously. Listen dude, Lee is dead and you really should get over it especially as this is a fictional game. You saw how weak and grey he started looking in that last scene. When you leave Lee you actually see him fall unconcious and die, how can you honestly sit here without being a troll and think he’s alive. If Clem shoots him she determinately tells Kenny in S2 “i had to shoot Lee”. He’s dead, there is no coming back from it. I don’t want to go back and see a corpse or undead Lee. Why should Clem experience that and why would they go back to Savannah just to witness that?
Lee should be remembered as he was, not for someone who is dead. Besides, if Lee WAS miraculous alive, Telltale would probably write his character in a shit way for the final season anyway so for that reason he should be left
I guess that depends on the direction that Telltale wants to go. They can have a final convergence point. An ending that everyone gets to ju… morest with different determinant characters along the way. However, from my perspective why not try to shake up the formula for the final game of this series and make different arcs with different endings.
I would lobby for branching paths where players can really seek out what they've been troubled by in the series. Based on what you've said it seems like you aren't super interested in revisiting Lee. What direction do you want the game to head in? Or are you fine going with their flow?
Trust me, I’ve been a fan of the walking dead since 2012, I think I know that there is no coming back from a bite, and even non-fans know that 8f you are bitten then it is a death sentence, no matter what. Lee is dead. Get over it.
Saying Lee is still alive is like saying Glenn is still alive. There is no survival chance whatsoever, and we’ve seen it ourself.
There isn't an "illness" from being bit. The virus is dormant in the body until death. What people experience when bitten is a severe infect… moreion. There is an ungodly amount of bacteria in the world. You'd figure a zombie's mouth is just filth. The bites are lethal because of the potency and concentration being received. But these same bacteria are found normally as well. Any untreated would in a non sterile environment will have a high risk for infections.
You cannot tell the difference between the infections. There's nothing special in the bites. So. All we know was Lee was fighting an infection from his lost limb, or if he was too late, the bite. If it was the bite, he's surely dead, but if it was for his arm we don't know what may have happened to him. (If no one stumbles upon him he'll most likely be dead, but we don't know.)
If Telltale wanted to and I think they do they could make an ending with a living Lee, and I don't see any problems with that.
Either you don’t know what they were talking about or don’t know what you are talking about yourself. Seanao thinks that there is a possibility that Lee can survive if you are taking the right steps, and, evidentially, you are agreeing as you have said so yourself, when we all know that Lee is dead no matter what
Apparently you haven't been paying attention to this forum at all. What are you, five years old? What gives you the right to treat people this way?
Seanao is talking about the possibility of traveling back to Savannah and seeing Lee's DEAD body, and I agreed that this was a good idea.
You can't act like this, man. It's immature. Show a little dignity and respect in other opinions.
I’m on your side now
Either you don’t know what they were talking about or don’t know what you are talking about yourself. Seanao th… moreinks that there is a possibility that Lee can survive if you are taking the right steps, and, evidentially, you are agreeing as you have said so yourself, when we all know that Lee is dead no matter what
Comments
What, like Kenny sacrificing himself as a paralyzed crash dummy?
Look, you got to see that family guy either disappear after moving to prevent Christa from paying for a dumb mistake he made, preferably atone for his selfishness by trying to save Ben after the boy suffers a sudden collapse, die recognizing how broken he is and even admitting that he's ironically a little scared of death after wanting for a while, and giving a heartfelt speech so Clementine and AJ can be let into a safe haven he's been desperately searching for without him. And hell, even that last scenario still has you dumb going out fighting so Clementine and AJ can live theme and the small promise that keeping up with his hat in the Wellington scenario may come back into play.
No matter how much you were supposedly let down by ANF or negatively affected by how it treated past characters, it can never take away the fact that you still many many memories of that artifact in particular to fall back on that will unfortunately never not be a big deal to a disproportionate amount of people, which is WAY more than almost everyone else can say.
Man up, Tails!
Dude, that's NOT the only reason why.
Then please, feel free to "illuminate" me.
I mean he's completely entitled to his opinion. I like sad stories as much as the next person. ANF didn't really ruin anything for me. Just because it didn't end with every person dead, or lost doesn't mean it wasn't a somber story without loss. Mariana's death was tragic. Javi and David's relationship was always twisting me. My favorite scene where David is going to kill Javi and you have the choice to fight back or keep your promise to your father.
Are you in favor of a linear story in Season 4? I've been posing the question of having different arcs culminating from choices from Seasons 1, 2 and 3. To me it'd be cool to have a completely different mid to ending than someone else. Sure it'd be more work, but it'd be a staple to the franchise and a fun little twist to their formula.
You don't have to defend your opinion. It's fine that your experience left you wanting more out of it. I really liked it. I think the Javi/David relationship dynamics were really well done.
Like I've been asking everyone.. Would you be cool with very unique branching paths in Season 4? Like to the degree of 6 different mid games and 12 different endings (2 different endings per mid game). Or would you be more of a fan of the nearly linear way they've done their previous seasons where you start and end at the same point with different determinants?
I think the 10 minutes thing isn't true. I tried to look at it. To me as a player I felt like the game is intentionally waving that in my face about limbs being cut off and telling me they live. I think in ANF when it was mentioned it didn't really have much to do with what was going on it was like side chatter. I honestly feel and hope they bring the living Lee back for those that never gave up on him.
But I've written this in every comment. I'd like us all the have fairly unique experiences in Season 4. Go big and bold right? I'd be happy with the same type of blueprint that they've used for all the seasons. All players start and end the same, but what an opportunity it'd be to try and curtail the journey. Or maybe give us BIG choices to make to have distinctly different divergent directions. (how's that for alliteration?
)
Hey his opinion of games is fine! Telltale designed this game with many different ways to interpret things. Each season definitely strike someone's chord differently.
I hated Kenny. He was the worst kind of survivor in my opinion. The ones that only care about "their team". It's the easy way out and I always saw him as too weak to be humane. Time after time he continued to lose people and his response was to become more despondent and violent. He became cutthroat and barbaric (probably mentally ill too). That's not the kind of person I want Clementine to learn from. My version of Lee was about teaching her to survive, but also trying to keep her humanity intact. The bigger picture in my eyes is if everyone devolves into a monster the world is doomed. The hard part is balancing when to defend yourself, end someone, or show mercy.
If you've seen the show there's a character named Morgan that meets a man named Eastman who brings him back from nearly losing his mind. Morgan adopts Eastman's code to not kill humans and that "all life is precious". Carol is another character in the group that has the opposite philosophy. She will kill anyone a danger to the group. Morgan's philosophy obviously nearly gets people killed. Morgan is forced to adjust his stance to save Carol's life by killing someone about to kill her.
No character in the game reminds me of Morgan after he takes that balanced approach except for my version of Lee. In my eyes it's the only way to live while also preserving humanity.
I don’t think any of us gave up on Lee. If you chose to leave him to see him die and if you choose to shoot him you only see the gun fire.
4:30 onwards. Tell me that does not look like Lee just died infront of our own eyes.
It's open ended to me. The virus or infection could be killing him. Or he is exhausted and has been stretched to his limits. No matter what he's in serious trouble and needs medical help. As Lee and Clem are maneuvering away from the Marsh house Clem encounters her parents and Lee faints is pretty much the same way. There's no doubt the game designers want you to give up on Lee. Move on from him. But they also gave me too many choices to try and preserve him. To the point where it's open ended. All endings should be shown as a definitive death. How can Lee pass out and then die in nearly the same kind of animation and the player not wonder well maybe he passed out again? How can I be certain? But it's better for Clem to go since Lee is so banged up she'll never get him out safely.
I trust the game designers and this series has been masterfully crafted. For a game ALL about choices I find deliberate that there is one sequence of choices that leave enough bread crumbs for the possibility of Lee's survival in the player's eyes. They definitely want to allude to you he's gone, but If they wanted to move on from him they should have made definitively dead (like show him turn) and not leave any room for doubt with all the possible player choice avenues. It's either a monumental flaw of Season 1. Or a beautifully crafted plan from the start. Or a horrible mistake depending on who you ask.
https://youtu.be/i_ej3t8jvhw?t=8h29m52s
Yeah, well I wanted Mariana to live but my choices didn’t help much, did they? And the only choice I remember that would allow us to preserve him is cutting his arm off, but that was after he fainted. I don’t know about you but I’ve never known anyone to faint because of a few marks on their arm that they got an hour before the incident.
Btw pls don’t argue that Mari is still alive cos u can make certain choices, cos she took a bullet to the brain and buried 2 ft under ?
I don’t think they’re giving options to “preserve” him, he’s had his arm sawed off after being bitten, exhausted after fighting and has fainted so he’s obviously turning. There is nothing that could be done to save him at this point. It’s time to move on.
That would be bad writing, besides Lee’s death is already sad as it is, there’s no need to see it, the gunshot is enough.
I hear these examples being used, but it's blatantly one sided and disingenuous to compare those examples.
This is purely speculation, my view is that Lilly plays a role in Season 4 based on Telltale saying a Season 1 character will be in Season 4. I think if Lee lives the major "butterfly" decisions would have to be..
1.) Refusing to leave Lilly behind. (I suspect she may have tailed Lee and can potentially bring him to safety, or verify his death depending on what you choose.)
2.) Cutting off Lee's arm. (Lee looks healthier if you cut it off.)
3.) Not asking Clem to shoot Lee. (Leaves Lee's ending open ended if you cut off his arm).
If I'm wrong I'm fine, but you see why me and players like me that see it this way would want a more concrete image that Lee is dead/turned. If they have no plans to give an outcome with living Lee, I would want some sort of way to revisit Savannah.
Just don't be mad at me for seeing things this way. Understand some people need way too much evidence to come to terms with something tragic. Otherwise if you played through the game like me you're left with just enough doubt to be hopeful. Which makes it hard to let it go.
I’m not mad. Just confused as to why you think he could live is all, despite showing all of the signs of the fever. Even his freaking eyes go yellow, even if you cut his arm off, so I think that’s enough solid evidence that he is pretty much a goner.
The passing out can be seen either way. You can just as easily attribute it to chopping off the arm with continual blood loss or going into shock after adrenaline wears off. Or you can say he didn't cut his arm off in time and he'll die from the virus.
I don't see your truth and worse or better than mine. All I'm saying is if the devs wanted to push Lee into the afterlife they gave too many decisions that you can rationally say he might actually not be dead from the virus.
There was a dev on another forum that wrote "Lee was bit. He is dead." which is probably what they wanted, but I don't really believe them. I think they want me to believe it so they can gut me in Season 4 with a twist depending on choices. But you have to admit if it's that much of a question they have to write what they actually intended it's either clever misdirection or very poor game design and thus they should clean it up IN GAME.
This is almost always what the conversation turns to.. Random finger points that don't coincide with the walking dead universe. I'm going to have to have you clarify the 'yellow eyes" and point it out. Zombie's eyes are not yellow. The pupils have a white sheen and that sometimes look cloudy. Think Nuclear sclerosis in dogs type of cloudy. Unless Jaundice is a byproduct of the virus and I'm completely blind I don't see yellow unless the game lighting is... yellow..?
BUT WE NEED TO CLARIFY THIS... It's easy to forget how you become the undead. EVERYONE has the virus. It doesn't matter how you die. Any way you die there's a dormant virus inside everyone that reanimates the body through restarting part of the brain.
When people are bit they are not "infected", because they are already infected. You always get sick from a bite because they are undead filth. Your body has a natural defense to infections which is to increase your internal temp. That fever is what burns the person up and they die.
You cannot tell the difference between an infection from being bit and an infection from hacking your arm off. The symptoms are the same. There is no way to tell. However, humans have been shown to recover from bacterial infections with antibiotics. In Tim Kirkman's universe they have not been shown to be able to treat a bite through antibiotics.
The only way to survive a bite is to hack off the limb if they are fortunate enough to be bit on a limb. And every individual is different, we don't know how long they need before it's too late. I don't see how you can fault me for questioning Lee's symptoms. The preservation decisions were made and the logic is completely consistent with the series.
Does that help you see why I see things as open ended? Telltale knows the rules. I keep saying this. It would be a monumental blunder for them to not see why players that followed my path felt confused with Lee's outcome. If they wanted Lee gone forever, they should have made it crystal clear. Which it absolutely is not.
Since when has a normal human being who has not fallen ill under some sort of crazy disease had yellow eyes? I’m not saying they’re zombie eyes, because no way is he healthy with those things.
Bites kill you, no way around it, and Lee didn’t cut it off in time. And if you want me to start getting desperate about my point, I have viewed a great many of Kirkman’s Q&A’s/panels, as well as other Skybound events, and I have also read some of the comics and have watched every episode of the show, while also played all seasons and every episode, so I know it is IMPOSSIBLE for Lee to still be alive, considering it has been confirmed by the man who created the walking dead and has been maintaining it since 2003, and when he says you can’t come back from a bite, I think I’m more willing to believe him than believing in a dialogue option which is basically saying “leave the dying man alone”
Furthermore, Lee’s skin goes COMPLETELY pale, which is another sign that his infection is setting in, he can’t move, he has no strength, he even struggled to kick the baseball bat over to Clementine. Know who else has that little strength? Somebody who is dying.
And I know you are arguing for the “cut his arm off” scenario, but I’ll just add that if u kept the arm u can see it limping like it completely has no life left in it.
Next, we have the fact that Clementine herself states that Lee is dead, and she was there, she saw him die, she shared his last moments, it is impossible for her to be mistaken.
Finally, Telltale said so and they literally have no reason to lie to us for about 5-6 years. P.S bringing Lee back to life would start to make season 1 look like a bad game even though it wasn’t, considering the most tear jerking moment would turn out to be a fake out, completely stripping the game, or at least the episode, of all of its magic.
Ok. I'll keep this simple. What's the difference between an infection for losing your arm, and an infection from a zombie bite?
There is no difference, the only slight difference being that one is a more painful outcome that gets u nowhere.
So we agree that we can't know the difference between the bite infection vs a surgical infection.
Ok. Do we know definitively how long a person has to remove a limb once it's bitten?
Actually, you can know in Lee’s case. Though, only present in the video game, one symptom of being bitten is the sclera, the white part of the eye, becoming a pale yellow. This can be seen in both Lee and Pete when they were turning.
To why their eyes turn cloudy, I’m not quite sure but one reason I’ve heard is that they don’t blink, so they become damaged over time.
On the wiki is does say pale yellow sclera as a game only symptom. Pale yellow sclera can be a symptom of hemolytic anemia from a severe infection. What we're seeing is Lee has an infection. The infection is either from poor post surgical care from sawing off his arm, or the bite. We cannot assume either of them is right or wrong because you cannot discern the difference between the infections.
If the developers showed him turn that'd erase all doubt. But they did not so neither of us can really say what the infection was from. In this unique situation the question about if he died is open ended. There is still a viable path of choices that could have allowed Lee to live. Does this mean I'm right? No, if I'm wrong it shows a game design flaw. They should have made his death clear as crystal.
It’s game only cos it’s in the comic universe, and the comics are in black and white
They have to remove it almost immediately after
I have a theory as to why Telltale didn't show the player Lee's death. They wanted to spare the player from extra pain. Having to force a little girl to shoot or leave Lee was hard enough (although, I guess you could of let her decide for herself), but if we were forced to watch the light drain from Lee's eyes or see his brain splattered into a thousand pieces, that would of been absolute emotional murder. I personally really like this effect. Telltale was trying to keep the player innocent so we could better relate with Clem next season.
Now that I type this, I realize that seeing Lee's body could be a good thing. We didn't see Lee's death at first so that Clem could remain innocent. Seeing Lee's body could show her finally growing to maturity. It could set up a great ending to the series. It just needs to be pulled off correctly.
Huh. Seanao, I'm on your side now.
Lee’s dead
We need Lee in season 4, I can't play without him please ??♂️?
Seriously, what are the chances Lee, after cutting his arm off, getting an infection which developes into a blood disorder destroying blood cells and turns the sclera yellow?
So, he either has a severe infection without antibiotics or he’s bitten. In this situation, I doubt there is any hope of him surviving.
Why does it need to be crystal clear, in mine Clem shot him, she even admits he’s dead in diologue options. Why would she have a reason to lie? And Lee wouldn’t live if Clem left, he’s handcuffed to a radiator he’d starve or die of dehydration. Besides, would you actually want to see Lee’s brain splattered on a wall? It’s already sad enough and would ruin the effect of a great ending.
Dude, Lee’s Dead. It’s over for him. There’s absolutely no way he survived after being bit if you didn’t cut off his arm. Even if you did, he’s still handcuffed with his last arm. If he “lived”, he would’ve died of starvation or dehydration.
There’s no theory or anything like that. Lee Everett is straight up dead. That’s like saying Gabe survived his bite even after he got shot. Once your bit and you don’t cut off the limb immediately, your dead.
Tuberculosis could be another example (A lot of people have it, and it can cause yellow eyes). Sanitation standards in TWD world are worse than third world nations. You'd have to imagine being bit by the undead would introduce a plethora of disease and bacteria into the body. That's why everyone dies of infection like symptoms.
You cannot tell reliably the difference in infections. There is nothing unique in a bite other than it's concentration and potency of the bacteria.
But you don't understand what I'm saying here. Shooting Lee allows the player to know Lee is dead because you killed him. Leaving Lee doesn't allow you to see that crucial moment. It's hard to move on. And as you ponder about it and well was there a way he could live? Yes (not without help). But yes it's plausible he's really sick and someone finds him. There's only one avenue of decisions that leaves the possibility open.
If I'm supposed to move on, my ending should be just as conclusive as yours. Part of the player base depending on the ending shouldn't left scratching their heads wondering what Lee was actually suffering from. It'd definitely put more significance on the in game decisions.
Actually you can determinantley handcuff the walker or just completely ignore the cuffs altogether. But still, it is 100% impossible for Lee to be alive either way, we’ve seen him with the illness, exactly the same as duck had when he was bitten, so we know for a fact he is infected, no matter what anybody chose
There is no identified time range from bitten to amputation. The sooner the better is the obvious answer. In the game Lee is bitten and then the very next scene is the option to remove his arm. It's tough to say, but impossible to know.
Time had past between those two scenes though. Besides, we don’t really need to know specifically, just that a tourniquet needs to be applied and limb cut off immediately because Pete’s symptoms started to show real fast.
PS: happy new year
There isn't an "illness" from being bit. The virus is dormant in the body until death. What people experience when bitten is a severe infection. There is an ungodly amount of bacteria in the world. You'd figure a zombie's mouth is just filth. The bites are lethal because of the potency and concentration being received. But these same bacteria are found normally as well. Any untreated would in a non sterile environment will have a high risk for infections.
You cannot tell the difference between the infections. There's nothing special in the bites. So. All we know was Lee was fighting an infection from his lost limb, or if he was too late, the bite. If it was the bite, he's surely dead, but if it was for his arm we don't know what may have happened to him. (If no one stumbles upon him he'll most likely be dead, but we don't know.)
If Telltale wanted to and I think they do they could make an ending with a living Lee, and I don't see any problems with that.
Happy New Year! I'll have some more interesting comments hopefully allude to a living Lee too.. Might not be until tomorrow!
I find your post hard to take seriously. Listen dude, Lee is dead and you really should get over it especially as this is a fictional game. You saw how weak and grey he started looking in that last scene. When you leave Lee you actually see him fall unconcious and die, how can you honestly sit here without being a troll and think he’s alive. If Clem shoots him she determinately tells Kenny in S2 “i had to shoot Lee”. He’s dead, there is no coming back from it. I don’t want to go back and see a corpse or undead Lee. Why should Clem experience that and why would they go back to Savannah just to witness that?
Lee should be remembered as he was, not for someone who is dead. Besides, if Lee WAS miraculous alive, Telltale would probably write his character in a shit way for the final season anyway so for that reason he should be left
Trust me, I’ve been a fan of the walking dead since 2012, I think I know that there is no coming back from a bite, and even non-fans know that 8f you are bitten then it is a death sentence, no matter what. Lee is dead. Get over it.
Saying Lee is still alive is like saying Glenn is still alive. There is no survival chance whatsoever, and we’ve seen it ourself.
Choices don`t mean much. What has to happen will happen no matter what in Telltale games. So, Lee dies in all the endings. The end.
Huh. I think you didn't read my comment at all.
Either you don’t know what they were talking about or don’t know what you are talking about yourself. Seanao thinks that there is a possibility that Lee can survive if you are taking the right steps, and, evidentially, you are agreeing as you have said so yourself, when we all know that Lee is dead no matter what
Apparently you haven't been paying attention to this forum at all. What are you, five years old? What gives you the right to treat people this way?
Seanao is talking about the possibility of traveling back to Savannah and seeing Lee's DEAD body, and I agreed that this was a good idea.
You can't act like this, man. It's immature. Show a little dignity and respect in other opinions.