But this is all based on values adopted by society, because it is necessary for a society to work, however in The Walking Dead, AJ contributes nothing, and if Clementine died to save AJ, more people would die down the line probably
Wellington ending was a fitting end to his arc. Bringing him back would take meaning away from the sacrifice he made while also infuriating the players who actually stayed with him.
Wellington ending was a fitting end to his arc. Bringing him back would take meaning away from the sacrifice he made while also infuriating the players who actually stayed with him.
I feel strongly that had Kenny run into Arvo that he would not have twice about taking the meds from Arvo either.
Ah haa, you mean the same episode where Kenny is wallowing alone over Sarita's death not wanting to bothered with anyone or go anywhere? Eh bit of a reach Don't think pills ever crossed his mind in that state.
He's very much a "I care about my group only" kind of guy. Plus, when Jane actually does do something where she is thinking of someone else's interest
And this, this, just no to all of this. Sarah would definitely disagree with that. Jane was absolutely positive Sarah would die in that trailer and claiming "some people you just can help" if it wasn't for Clementine's conscience she'd be exactly like Jane which is a scary thought. Hell, Luke's another one I don't necessarily care for, at least he had some faith in saving Sarah.
Also, saying you killed a person to manipulate another person is NOT the same as actually doing it.
WAT?! Telling a child someone killed someone so you'd be okay with that person getting killed is not okay!!!
Sheesh, this girl just cannot win.
I'd say it's because she tries to pull off the "good-guy" role in most scenarios when she should just stay a douche.
I have one nitpick with your post and it is this: holding Jane responsible for taking Arvo's meds which then resulted in Arvo's group attack… moreing Clem's group. Remember in season one when they could opt to take the stuff from the car or leave in case the car's owner came back? Well, Kenny had no second thoughts about stealing then. I feel strongly that had Kenny run into Arvo that he would not have twice about taking the meds from Arvo either. He's very much a "I care about my group only" kind of guy. Plus, when Jane actually does do something where she is thinking of someone else's interest (in this case Rebecca) she's still awful because of the outcome regardless of whether you could have predicted that it would result in an attack. Sheesh, this girl just cannot win.
Also, saying you killed a person to manipulate another person is NOT the same as actually doing it.
It isn't, but it is a psychopathic move. You can't leave a baby alone in the real world much less in TWD. In the end she resorted to manipulation to prove a false point
Also, saying you killed a person to manipulate another person is NOT the same as actually doing it.>
It isn't, but it is a psycho… morepathic move. You can't leave a baby alone in the real world much less in TWD. In the end she resorted to manipulation to prove a false point
Kenny was on the verge of a mental break down and was deeply flawed but that kind of manipulation would have set anyone off. If Jane hadnt done what she did the whole fight would never had happened in the first place.
Funny, weren't you one of the many people hating on Minecraft for getting sequel?
Uh, no. You have me confused with someone else. I actually kinda like the minecraft game, for it's characters and humor. What I don't like about it is that they took no liberties with the art design. A "Realistic" minecraft would have been cool.
a cult following based on some obscure comic vs a tie-in to one of the most popular tv shows ever?
doesn't make sense to me.
Funn… morey, weren't you one of the many people hating on Minecraft for getting sequel?
also wolf among us had a pathetic ending. the climax being that important town meeting/trial, with all like 10 character models (what a town) was embarrassing.
I'd take your word for it, but given your track record, I'm just gonna chalk it up to petty scorn.
Yeah, that's what Luke said. But I bet he would delude himself to justify that sort of thing in his mind
Bonnie, Hank, and Carver make vaguely similar comments, though.
she hates groups and never wanted to be there in the first place
And somehow this is the person people see fit for Clem to travel wi… moreth. I feel like if Jane was put in a situation to save Clem or herself she'd save her own ass. I mean you watched your sibling die, why save this kid you had no intentions on being with in the first place?
It isn't, but it is a psychopathic move. You can't leave a baby alone in the real world much less in TWD. In the end she resorted to manipulation to prove a false point
OMG 10 gold stars
I think it was a false point because she did provoke it she forced it to become true by doing what she did.
You might be right about the fight they might have gone separate ways. In the end Jane also left Clementine by her self. I never saw that ending so I can't say much about it.
Her point wasn't false, Kenny would have alienated even more people and put Clem's life in danger if she remained loyal to him. That fight was going to happen sooner or later.
Even though my Kenny is probably alive and is one of my favourites, I do not think it would be good for the story to have him at the ranch. As a player who stayed at Wellington, I do want to see Kenny again but his appearance has to be performed in a high consistency level. Lilly is the living representation of a choice we made long ago, I can not help but to see her as the best possible "villain" for the Season. I can easily picture an insanely disturbed Lilly living on her own or with a small group, not at the ranch though. Bonnie should be at the ranch (let Arvo and Mike die off-screen). Tavia and/or Shel (with Becca meeting her end off-screen, so Shel could see Becca in A.J.) could also be there. Nate, Vincent and/or Wyatt could be in Lilly's group (no need to Russell and Eddie to appear in this Season). Someone who I think should really be at the ranch is Christa, seeing in A.J. the child she could not have, however this is a schizophrenic Christa, who sometimes is lucid and sometimes is not.
all of the characters that telltale abandoned. lilly, christa, molly, mike, arvo, shel, becca, vince, wyatt, eddie, russell, bonnie, tavia, nate. they;re all just gonna be chilling at the ranch. having a GRAND TIME. lotta fun, no walkers, no ones dead. everyones happy : )
Jane's point was that Kenny was unstable and going to put them in danger. I'd say she proved that point. What if something had happened to AJ similar to what happened to Sarita? Clem tries her best, but can't save AJ. When that those events surrounding Sarita's death happens, Clem has to walk on eggshells to not get verbally abused by Kenny. Was Sarita's death caused by Clem? No. It takes a while for Kenny to calm down and eventually see reason. What if the next time something unfortunate happens? I personally don't want to be around a verbally abusive person, one who under the wrong circumstances becomes physically abusive. You don't like that someone manipulates you. Fine. I guess that's fair. We each have our reasons to dislike the person we do.
I think it was a false point because she did provoke it she forced it to become true by doing what she did.
You might be right about the … morefight they might have gone separate ways. In the end Jane also left Clementine by her self. I never saw that ending so I can't say much about it.
Ah haa, you mean the same episode where Kenny is wallowing alone over Sarita's death not wanting to bothered with anyone or go anywhere? Eh bit of a reach Don't think pills ever crossed his mind in that state.
Yeah, but he also didn't encounter them. If your defense is, he was too depressed to think clearly just then, that's hardly a defense. My point was, Kenny would take from others to help his group without thinking or much caring about the consequences for other people. EG - the goods in the car, and that girl who was being attacked by zombies.
And this, this, just no to all of this. Sarah would definitely disagree with that. Jane was absolutely positive Sarah would die in that trailer and claiming "some people you just can help" if it wasn't for Clementine's conscience she'd be exactly like Jane which is a scary thought. Hell, Luke's another one I don't necessarily care for, at least he had some faith in saving Sarah.
What part are you disagreeing with here? That taking the meds (which were intended to be given to Rebecca) wasn't thinking about someone else or what? Why bring Sarah into this? I thought the criticism here was that Jane was a bitch for threatening and stealing Arvo's meds. Was stealing the meds, and the method used to do so, justified? Was stealing the meds for sick pregnant woman enough to justify stealing the meds?
Then there's the whole question of whether Jane's actions caused the Russians to attack the Cabin group. I think a lot of people would have stolen the meds, including Kenny. Season One Clem might not have, dependent on what lesson Lee did or didn't teach her; and Lee depending on how you chose to act. So getting mad at Jane for "causing" the attack on the Cabin group feels wrong to me.
Now, as far a Jane and Sarah: I think Jane's point was that Sarah, even if she survived the trailer park, would be a liability because you would never know when she's going to have a melt down. I mean, Luke tried for HOURS to save her. Who has that kind of time? Not me, which is why I left her. Of course, TT made that a moot point by killing her almost right away. That sucked.
WAT?! Telling a child someone killed someone so you'd be okay with that person getting killed is not okay!!!
Again, I don't think Jane was saying that they should kill Kenny, but that they should leave. They should separate from Kenny. Not the same. They should have gone along with Bonnie, Mike and Arvo.
Also. How do Kenny fans explain/justify Kenny beating the shit out of Arvo?
I feel strongly that had Kenny run into Arvo that he would not have twice about taking the meds from Arvo either.
Ah haa, you mean t… morehe same episode where Kenny is wallowing alone over Sarita's death not wanting to bothered with anyone or go anywhere? Eh bit of a reach Don't think pills ever crossed his mind in that state.
He's very much a "I care about my group only" kind of guy. Plus, when Jane actually does do something where she is thinking of someone else's interest
And this, this, just no to all of this. Sarah would definitely disagree with that. Jane was absolutely positive Sarah would die in that trailer and claiming "some people you just can help" if it wasn't for Clementine's conscience she'd be exactly like Jane which is a scary thought. Hell, Luke's another one I don't necessarily care for, at least he had some faith in saving Sarah.
Also, saying you killed a person to manipulate another person is NOT … [view original content]
Yeah, but he also didn't encounter them. If your defense is, he was too depressed to think clearly just then, that's hardly a defense. My point was, Kenny would take from others to help his group without thinking or much caring about the consequences for other people. EG - the goods in the car, and that girl who was being attacked by zombies.
Okay Shampa you wanna go there? Fine! The woman being pursued by walkers was completely surrounded, not to mention attracting them. There was absolutely no rational way to save her without getting injured or dying in the process. Who's to say she wasn't bitten in the process? Call me cold-hearted but abandoning the mission to gather supplies for the group to save a woman who's dead already is suicide. Yes it was a terrible sight, but Kenny saw an opportunity to compromise and sacrifice for the group. There's even a choice to put her out of her misery. Again call me cold-hearted but I see no other options in that scenario.
What part are you disagreeing with here? That taking the meds (which were intended to be given to Rebecca) wasn't thinking about someone else or what?
Who the hell does Jane think she is? The IRS? Even if it is for someone in desperate need of the medication, it gave her no right to threaten Arvo for it in the first place. Not to mention his own sister being "sick" why does he have to choose to give up what belongs to him? What gave her the right to put him in that predicament?
Why bring Sarah into this?
...Whoosh.
Now, as far a Jane and Sarah: I think Jane's point was that Sarah, even if she survived the trailer park, would be a liability because you would never know when she's going to have a melt down. I mean, Luke tried for HOURS to save her. Who has that kind of time? Not me, which is why I left her. Of course, TT made that a moot point by killing her almost right away. That sucked.
Everyone is capable of a melt down Shampa, everyone. Especially in their current environment it's inevitable. It's just a matter of looking at the bigger picture which is ultimately survival. And yes, Luke did attempt to save Sarah for hours which goes to show how much of a conscience he has when it comes to people. Me personally, I chose to stay and convince Sarah to get her shit together and stay alive. I wouldn't just let her sit and die without a fight. Which doesn't apply to Jane at all. If it was Jane & Lee instead of Kenny deciding that woman's fate, we both know it would've went down the same way. No debate.
Again, I don't think Jane was saying that they should kill Kenny, but that they should leave. They should separate from Kenny. Not the same. They should have gone along with Bonnie, Mike and Arvo.
And this is the base of what pisses me off the most. I mean, who in the hell are you to tell me to abandoned this guy I've traveled with for months and just reunited with because he's had a few temper tantrums?! It's ridiculous. Because you don't like him and his way of doing things, desert him? Fuuuck off. And please do not get me started on those sheep Bonnie and Mike.
How do Kenny fans explain/justify Kenny beating the shit out of Arvo?
Because he cares for Clem & AJ and he put their lives in danger BECAUSE JANE WANTED THE GODDAMN PAINKILLERS.
Ah haa, you mean the same episode where Kenny is wallowing alone over Sarita's death not wanting to bothered with anyone or go anywhere? Eh … morebit of a reach Don't think pills ever crossed his mind in that state.
Yeah, but he also didn't encounter them. If your defense is, he was too depressed to think clearly just then, that's hardly a defense. My point was, Kenny would take from others to help his group without thinking or much caring about the consequences for other people. EG - the goods in the car, and that girl who was being attacked by zombies.
And this, this, just no to all of this. Sarah would definitely disagree with that. Jane was absolutely positive Sarah would die in that trailer and claiming "some people you just can help" if it wasn't for Clementine's conscience she'd be exactly like Jane which is a scary thought. Hell, Luke's another one I don't necessarily care for, at least he had some faith in saving Sarah.
… [view original content]
Also. How do Kenny fans explain/justify Kenny beating the shit out of Arvo?
Kenny fan here, allow me to present my point of view on why I believe Kenny was justified in beating the shit out of Arvo:
Arvo is a motherfucking piece of shit trash cowardly backstabbing kid-shooting stupid bastard who deserved to have his skull beaten out of his fucking ass. Luke died because of this cunt. Clementine almost died because of this cunt. AJ and everyone else almost died because of this crippled cunt. Now I know it's really Jane who's to blame here but let's cut her some slack, it was Arvo who decided to come back and fuck us thus deserving a slow painful death at the hands of Kenny.
Ah haa, you mean the same episode where Kenny is wallowing alone over Sarita's death not wanting to bothered with anyone or go anywhere? Eh … morebit of a reach Don't think pills ever crossed his mind in that state.
Yeah, but he also didn't encounter them. If your defense is, he was too depressed to think clearly just then, that's hardly a defense. My point was, Kenny would take from others to help his group without thinking or much caring about the consequences for other people. EG - the goods in the car, and that girl who was being attacked by zombies.
And this, this, just no to all of this. Sarah would definitely disagree with that. Jane was absolutely positive Sarah would die in that trailer and claiming "some people you just can help" if it wasn't for Clementine's conscience she'd be exactly like Jane which is a scary thought. Hell, Luke's another one I don't necessarily care for, at least he had some faith in saving Sarah.
… [view original content]
The woman being pursued by walkers was completely surrounded, not to mention attracting them. There was absolutely no rational way to save her without getting injured or dying in the process.
Yup. she was going to die. However, you could save her from the experience of being eaten alive or use it for your own safety. The kinder thing to do in that situation would have been to shoot the woman. Kenny advocates the selfish route.
If it was Jane & Lee instead of Kenny deciding that woman's fate, we both know it would've went down the same way. No debate.
What?!? No, we do not know that Lee would have behaved similarly to how Kenny behaves. That's why there could be so much conflict between Lee and Kenny. Lee was intelligent and reasonable. Lee wouldn't have done the stupid, irrational sort of shit that Kenny did. The Lee who shot and killed a man before the start of episode one regretted what he did and worked hard to be a better man. Kenny got worse the seasons progressed.
Everyone is capable of a melt down Shampa, everyone.
Yes, but Sarah was particularly prone to them. Even when she was in a relatively safe environment (in the Green house on the roof) where all she had to do was snip some dead leaves off a plant she was too paralyzed with fear to do anything. I get that Carver was a douche and he would have punished her for not doing a good job, but she still should have tried. Sarah didn't even try. At some point, you have to get mentally adjusted to the fact that the world is no longer safe and you have to act. If that thought causes you to have a panic attacks so that you can't act, and everyone has to constantly try to keep you safe, well...
...Whoosh.
What would Sarah have contributed to that discussion? That Jane cares for no one but herself? Isn't Jane looking out for Rebecca contradicting that? I implied earlier that Jane normally does the selfish thing, including not wanting to risk her life protecting someone like Sarah. By the way, Kenny is selfish, too. So Jane taking the meds to try to Rebecca was an exception. Her actions, threatening Arvo, were not great, but her intentions were. Kenny thought that Arvo was trying to trick them and was impatient that they weren't at the house. And then he got mad because the house was in process of construction. Did Arvo deliberately take them the way he did because he hoped to kill them? I didn't get that impression. Arvo was a) just trying to get meds to his sister and b) part of a group that was angry at the Cabin group and at Arvo for losing the meds. Arvo had a right to try to protect himself from his group's wrath and did not deserve to be beaten up by Kenny, or anyone else for that matter.
The fact that you think Kenny was justified in beating up Arvo, but that Jane was a monster for wanting to take medication that could potentially save Rebecca (and put Arvo in a terrible situation of having to give up meds that could save his sister's life) tells me your priorities are not quite right. Which is worse? Being beaten up or having meds stolen from you? Plus, I'm pretty sure Kenny would have also stolen the meds. Can you at least admit that? If Kenny (in his normal state and not too depressed to think because of Sarita's death - which is a lame defense of his character) had had a chance to get meds for Rebecca (who was pregnant and a part of his group) then he would have done it.
Because he cares for Clem & AJ and he put their lives in danger BECAUSE JANE WANTED THE GODDAMN PAINKILLERS.
Were you upset with Arvo because his group attacked the Cabin group? Or because the route Arvo took them on turned out to be risky for all of them? Should Kenny get any of the blame for insisting that Arvo take them to that house? And you think that justifies Kenny, a grown ass adult, beating up a kid?
And this is the base of what pisses me off the most. I mean, who in the hell are you to tell me to abandoned this guy I've traveled with for months and just reunited with because he's had a few temper tantrums?! It's ridiculous. Because you don't like him and his way of doing things, desert him? Fuuuck off. And please do not get me started on those sheep Bonnie and Mike.
A few temper tantrums? The man became both physically and verbally abusive. He doesn't think clearly, is rash and hot-headed. Even Sarita wonders whether Kenny is safe to be around, and Clem can reassure her that he is a good guy. Kenny has changed, and not for the better. I think he was a danger to Clem and I didn't want to be around him. Jane was trying to convince Clementine to do what was in her best interest. You'd do that sort of thing for people who are in abusive relationships. Mike and Bonnie had the right idea - get far away from Kenny.
Yeah, but he also didn't encounter them. If your defense is, he was too depressed to think clearly just then, that's hardly a defense. My po… moreint was, Kenny would take from others to help his group without thinking or much caring about the consequences for other people. EG - the goods in the car, and that girl who was being attacked by zombies.
Okay Shampa you wanna go there? Fine! The woman being pursued by walkers was completely surrounded, not to mention attracting them. There was absolutely no rational way to save her without getting injured or dying in the process. Who's to say she wasn't bitten in the process? Call me cold-hearted but abandoning the mission to gather supplies for the group to save a woman who's dead already is suicide. Yes it was a terrible sight, but Kenny saw an opportunity to compromise and sacrifice for the group. There's even a choice to put her out of her misery. Again call me cold-hearted but I see no other… [view original content]
Nope, you did not. Luke died because Kenny insisted that Arvo take them to the house because it had supplies. Unless Arvo knew the layer of ice was too thin to cross he did not lead Luke to his death. Everyone else almost dying because they were walking over ice was not Arvo's fault either. Arvo walked over that same ice, too.
During the stand off, what did the Russians want? If the cabin group had given them what they wanted, would they have killed them?
Plus, as I've said elsewhere, Kenny would have stolen the meds too if he thought that it could save a pregnant woman and a baby.
Also. How do Kenny fans explain/justify Kenny beating the shit out of Arvo?
Kenny fan here, allow me to present my point of view on … morewhy I believe Kenny was justified in beating the shit out of Arvo:
Arvo is a motherfucking piece of shit trash cowardly backstabbing kid-shooting stupid bastard who deserved to have his skull beaten out of his fucking ass. Luke died because of this cunt. Clementine almost died because of this cunt. AJ and everyone else almost died because of this crippled cunt. Now I know it's really Jane who's to blame here but let's cut her some slack, it was Arvo who decided to come back and fuck us thus deserving a slow painful death at the hands of Kenny.
Hope some insight has been provided.
@ShampaFK Nope, you did not. Luke died because Kenny insisted that Arvo take them to the house because it had supplies. Unless Arvo knew the layer of ice was too thin to cross he did not lead Luke to his death. Everyone else almost dying because they were walking over ice was not Arvo's fault either. Arvo walked over that same ice, too.
Um, actually, Arvo offered the group shelter and supplies at the Unfinished House as a peace offering and Kenny was the only one opposed to the idea initially.
After they actually did reach the house, it was actually Arvo who pointed out that they can cross the Frozen Lake to get there faster if they don't wanna waste time going around and Kenny volunteered him to go first since he was so confident about it. It was the walkers showing up that unnerved everyone and Luke having most of his weight balanced on one leg was likely what caused him to crack the ice, as Arvo eventually ended up in a similar position due to having to essentially hop on one leg.
During the stand off, what did the Russians want? If the cabin group had given them what they wanted, would they have killed them?
Eh, that's a little hard to say with any certainty, tbh.
Translations reveal that the whole "Rob Clementine's entire group" thing was Buricko's idea--apparently decided on the spot--and Arvo questioning what exactly does he want to take from them has Buricko respond with something to the effect of "Shit, I don't know--just whatever they have". It is worth noting Vitali appparently does have a line where he mentions Ammunition, though.
Buricko also explicitly refuses to allow Arvo and Clementine to make any compromise/deal(apparently changing his instructions to "take everything" if they try) and then he outright refuses to back down when things get tense even after Arvo points out the baby.
Given that I get the feeling he's the leader of the group, killing them would ultimately be up to him and who's to say he wouldn't on a sudden whim, especially given his parallel to Jane and (if the models were kept consistent) Kenny.
Plus, as I've said elsewhere, Kenny would have stolen the meds too if he thought that it could save a pregnant woman and a baby.
Nope, you did not. Luke died because Kenny insisted that Arvo take them to the house because it had supplies. Unless Arvo knew the layer of … moreice was too thin to cross he did not lead Luke to his death. Everyone else almost dying because they were walking over ice was not Arvo's fault either. Arvo walked over that same ice, too.
During the stand off, what did the Russians want? If the cabin group had given them what they wanted, would they have killed them?
Plus, as I've said elsewhere, Kenny would have stolen the meds too if he thought that it could save a pregnant woman and a baby.
You're right. I re-watched that scene where the Russians ambush the Cabin group. I do remember Kenny being an asshole to Arvo during that whole walk and I think I attributed wanting to get the supplies to Kenny, which is wrong. Arvo offered to share the supplies in order to win them over and everyone else wanted to eat. Kenny didn't trust Arvo is I think why Kenny didn't want to go along with Arvo's plan. I don't think Arvo knowingly led the group over the ice in hopes of them falling through the ice and dying. I also don't think Arvo deserved to be beaten.
Also, thanks for backing me up on the whole "would Kenny have stolen meds if that meant helping Rebecca" bit.
@ShampaFK Nope, you did not. Luke died because Kenny insisted that Arvo take them to the house because it had supplies. Unless Arvo knew the… more layer of ice was too thin to cross he did not lead Luke to his death. Everyone else almost dying because they were walking over ice was not Arvo's fault either. Arvo walked over that same ice, too.
Um, actually, Arvo offered the group shelter and supplies at the Unfinished House as a peace offering and Kenny was the only one opposed to the idea initially.
After they actually did reach the house, it was actually Arvo who pointed out that they can cross the Frozen Lake to get there faster if they don't wanna waste time going around and Kenny volunteered him to go first since he was so confident about it. It was the walkers showing up that unnerved everyone and Luke having most of his weight balanced on one leg was likely what caused him to crack the ice, as Arvo eventually ended up in a similar p… [view original content]
No, Luke died because he couldn't get over a frozen lake because of his shot leg which happened during a shootout that Arvo instigated. He fucking ambushed us. It's his fault.
Nope, you did not. Luke died because Kenny insisted that Arvo take them to the house because it had supplies. Unless Arvo knew the layer of … moreice was too thin to cross he did not lead Luke to his death. Everyone else almost dying because they were walking over ice was not Arvo's fault either. Arvo walked over that same ice, too.
During the stand off, what did the Russians want? If the cabin group had given them what they wanted, would they have killed them?
Plus, as I've said elsewhere, Kenny would have stolen the meds too if he thought that it could save a pregnant woman and a baby.
Yup. she was going to die. However, you could save her from the experience of being eaten alive or use it for your own safety. The kinder thing to do in that situation would have been to shoot the woman. Kenny advocates the selfish route.
Yup, that's what I did. And "selfish"?! I don't think by Kenny not wanting to kill her made him selfish. Softer would be more reasonable. He'd seen it was no possible way they'd be able to save the woman without getting themselves killed in the process. But killing her wouldn't of been his way of handling it either. Jane no doubt would've pulled the trigger.
No, we do not know that Lee would have behaved similarly to how Kenny behaves.
But, we do know how Jane behaves soo... bleh.
Yes, but Sarah was particularly prone to them. Even when she was in a relatively safe environment (in the Green house on the roof) where all she had to do was snip some dead leaves off a plant she was too paralyzed with fear to do anything. I get that Carver was a douche and he would have punished her for not doing a good job, but she still should have tried. Sarah didn't even try. At some point, you have to get mentally adjusted to the fact that the world is no longer safe and you have to act. If that thought causes you to have a panic attacks so that you can't act, and everyone has to constantly try to keep you safe, well...
I..I can't argue.
The fact that you think Kenny was justified in beating up Arvo, but that Jane was a monster for wanting to take medication that could potentially save Rebecca tells me your priorities are not quite right. Which is worse? Being beaten up or having meds stolen from you? Plus, I'm pretty sure Kenny would have also stolen the meds. Can you at least admit that? If Kenny had had a chance to get meds for Rebecca then he would have done it.
But it was completely justified in Kenny's defense! Remember: He didn't just happen to stumble upon Arvo and his group, THEY WERE AMBUSHED! Clem & AJ could have been killed! And for what? A failed attempt to get supplies?! In all reality, if I happen to get put in that type of situation, I'd be the last person to treat Arvo with any amount of respect. Especially if the first time I meet him is in a shootout with his group! Kickstarted by your beloved Jane.
Were you upset with Arvo because his group attacked the Cabin group? Should Kenny get any of the blame for insisting that Arvo take them to that house? And you think that justifies Kenny, a grown ass adult, beating up a kid?
Absolutely not. It was not his fault, but Jane's for taking matters into her own hands putting lives in danger then ditching them. She did return, but was everything that happened even necessary? And yes. Look at it like this, a group of survivors who seem to be doing very well for themselves tries to kill you and your group for reasons you don't know but somehow you prevail against them. With one hostage-survivor who might have a safe house or shelter that can be safe for your group, yeah you might wanna find that out any way you can. And Arvo was a kid? Seemed to be in his early 20s. Worst case 18.
A few temper tantrums? The man became both physically and verbally abusive. He doesn't think clearly, is rash and hot-headed. Even Sarita wonders whether Kenny is safe to be around, and Clem can reassure her that he is a good guy. Kenny has changed, and not for the better. I think he was a danger to Clem and I didn't want to be around him. Jane was trying to convince Clementine to do what was in her best interest. You'd do that sort of thing for people who are in abusive relationships. Mike and Bonnie had the right idea - get far away from Kenny.
And Jane's such a saint. Jane's the type of person that'll attack when you're down (manipulative). And her main problem is she never got her way, and no one listened to her especially Kenny. So he became a huge problem. Look Shampa, when you come across a group (Cabin Group) and you see they're weak and vulnerable, anyone like Jane'll wanna take advantage. But if someone in that group happens to see past your bullshit and true agenda (Kenny) they're gonna be an issue to your survival. So what do you do? You use mind games to distract people (Clem) from your main intentions and make up horrible stories (Killing AJ) so anything that person says isn't relevant anymore and they're completely delusional and off the rail. End of story.
The woman being pursued by walkers was completely surrounded, not to mention attracting them. There was absolutely no rational way to save h… moreer without getting injured or dying in the process.
Yup. she was going to die. However, you could save her from the experience of being eaten alive or use it for your own safety. The kinder thing to do in that situation would have been to shoot the woman. Kenny advocates the selfish route.
If it was Jane & Lee instead of Kenny deciding that woman's fate, we both know it would've went down the same way. No debate.
What?!? No, we do not know that Lee would have behaved similarly to how Kenny behaves. That's why there could be so much conflict between Lee and Kenny. Lee was intelligent and reasonable. Lee wouldn't have done the stupid, irrational sort of shit that Kenny did. The Lee who shot and killed a man before the start of episode one regretted what he did and worked hard to be… [view original content]
Lilly should be at the ranch. She was one of the best characters in the series and is a character that can bring conflict, sympathy and debate, which is definitely something that's needed in the game for it's end.
But if Telltale just bring her back to turn her into some unhinged dastardly villain, something a lot of people seem to want, I'll be very disappointed. Lilly was not a bad person, she was a flawed and broken woman who was pushed to her emotional limits mid-way through season 1 after trauma. Turning her into a baddie is just a disservice to what was a truly complex character. I'd much prefer a redemption arc.
Lilly should be at the ranch. She was one of the best characters in the series and is a character that can bring conflict, sympathy and deba… morete, which is definitely something that's needed in the game for it's end.
But if Telltale just bring her back to turn her into some unhinged dastardly villain, something a lot of people seem to want, I'll be very disappointed. Lilly was not a bad person, she was a flawed and broken woman who was pushed to her emotional limits mid-way through season 1 after trauma. Turning her into a baddie is just a disservice to what was a truly complex character. I'd much prefer a redemption arc.
Lilly should be at the ranch. She was one of the best characters in the series and is a character that can bring conflict, sympathy and deba… morete, which is definitely something that's needed in the game for it's end.
But if Telltale just bring her back to turn her into some unhinged dastardly villain, something a lot of people seem to want, I'll be very disappointed. Lilly was not a bad person, she was a flawed and broken woman who was pushed to her emotional limits mid-way through season 1 after trauma. Turning her into a baddie is just a disservice to what was a truly complex character. I'd much prefer a redemption arc.
So you really believe that Kenny would not have taken the meds from Arvo if he believed that those meds could save Rebecca's life? I know he cares about Duck, oh wait no... AJ... (because he did confuse the two once) but maybe he didn't care about Rebecca. Would he have stolen meds for Rebecca?
Yup, that's what I did. And "selfish"?! I don't think by Kenny not wanting to kill her made him selfish. Softer would be more reasonable. He'd seen it was no possible way they'd be able to save the woman without getting themselves killed in the process. But killing her wouldn't of been his way of handling it either. Jane no doubt would've pulled the trigger.
You have got to rewatch that scene. The choice wasn't between saving her life (and risking theirs) or letting her die. The choice was between letting the poor woman get eaten alive so that a distraction made things safer for you or killing her so that she suffered a little less. Kenny argues that they do the former, which was selfish. Watch this:
And that guy would not have stolen meds. Yeah. Right!
Yup. she was going to die. However, you could save her from the experience of being eaten alive or use it for your own safety. The kinder th… moreing to do in that situation would have been to shoot the woman. Kenny advocates the selfish route.
Yup, that's what I did. And "selfish"?! I don't think by Kenny not wanting to kill her made him selfish. Softer would be more reasonable. He'd seen it was no possible way they'd be able to save the woman without getting themselves killed in the process. But killing her wouldn't of been his way of handling it either. Jane no doubt would've pulled the trigger.
No, we do not know that Lee would have behaved similarly to how Kenny behaves.
But, we do know how Jane behaves soo... bleh.
Yes, but Sarah was particularly prone to them. Even when she was in a relatively safe environment (in the Green house on the roof) where all she had to do was snip some dead leaves off a plant she was to… [view original content]
And that guy would not have stolen meds. Yeah. Right!
With everything that went on from S1 to that very moment, I doubt Kenny'll have the energy to wanna put up another fight. And yes I do think he genuinely did care for Rebecca, so he would've found a way to get at least some medicine for her without threatening Arvo and causing a shitstorm.
Would he have stolen meds for Rebecca?
Steal like Jane? No. Negotiate? Perhaps.
Watch this:
Goddamnit Shampa you went … moreback the x-files
And that guy would not have stolen meds. Yeah. Right!
With everything that went on from S1 to that very moment, I doubt Kenny'll have the energy to wanna put up another fight. And yes I do think he genuinely did care for Rebecca, so he would've found a way to get at least some medicine for her without threatening Arvo and causing a shitstorm.
Steal like Jane? No. Negotiate? Perhaps.
Ha! That's funny. Kenny negotiating.... Kenny had the energy to beat the crap out of Arvo, but didn't have the crap to "put up another fight"...
Steal like Jane? No. Negotiate? Perhaps.
Ha! That's funny. Kenny negotiating.... Kenny had the energy to beat the crap out of Arvo, but didn't have the crap to "put up another fight"...
Kenny negotiating.... Kenny had the energy to beat the crap out of Arvo, but didn't have the crap to "put up another fight"...
Was this intentional?
"put up another fight"
Is this a reference to something?
Eh, personally, I think Lilly's a bit too good to be put in a duo with Arvo. She fucked up, sure, but it's no way near comparable to Arvo's attempt at channelling his inner Anakin Skywalker by trying to straight up kill Clementine, an 11 year old kid.
Well, the idea came about due to their similar setups in general:
Both had a single relative left with a serious medical condition
Both had an aggressive older man influencing some of their actions towards others
Both became embittered by the death of their relative at the hands of someone they would be forced to live with for a while, which in turn caused them to become increasingly hostile under stress
Both [determinately] became essentially prisoners after attempting to confront people who [determinately] robbed them
Both shoot someone they were shaky allies on a bad impulse, are shocked/spooked after doing so, and [determinately] take off into the night
Neither are/were actually bad people, at least not initially--just stuck in conditions that restricted what they truly felt comfortable with and eventually going through traumatic situations that caused them to eventually forsake their standards for a moment
It is worth noting that this was mainly conceptualized for A New Frontier, though.
channelling his inner Anakin Skywalker
Great, now I'm reminded of that one image someone made with Gabe
Eh, personally, I think Lilly's a bit too good to be put in a duo with Arvo. She fucked up, sure, but it's no way near comparable to Arvo's … moreattempt at channelling his inner Anakin Skywalker by trying to straight up kill Clementine, an 11 year old kid.
I think that maybe some of the exiles from New Richmond will be at The Ranch because where will all the people who were kicked out go? The answer is simple to The Ranch and perhaps Dr. Lingard was still able to care for some of the patients there until things got too complicated. David and Dr. Lingard probably became friends travelling on the road to The Ranch and New Richmond. Clementine probably doesn't know the location because when she was kicked out she wasn't at New Richmond she was on the road so perhaps they just had to abandon her somewhere far from the campsite. It' just a small theory I came up with but still plausible.
I think that maybe some of the exiles from New Richmond will be at The Ranch because where will all the people who were kicked out go? The a… morenswer is simple to The Ranch and perhaps Dr. Lingard was still able to care for some of the patients there until things got too complicated. David and Dr. Lingard probably became friends travelling on the road to The Ranch and New Richmond. Clementine probably doesn't know the location because when she was kicked out she wasn't at New Richmond she was on the road so perhaps they just had to abandon her somewhere far from the campsite. It' just a small theory I came up with but still plausible.
iam new to this forum and normally i dont join in forum discussions and just reading them but i like the emotions in this forum so i decided to join in.
to the topic:
i hope that the ranch is left and the last season will be kind of detective-game with lots of clem flashbacks/thinkings (shown how she learned surviving by teachings form christa, lee, kenny/jane etc.) and meeting some people (maybe old friends/enemies from past seasons, too) for hints to finally finding aj (and then bittersweet ending like killing christa to have aj for her own or a new community for clem but aj got bitten and clem has to mercy him)
to the discussion:
i like that even since years have past people get emotional about their charakters (so TT cant be that bad in season 2 ... season 3 is another thing) ... but it shouldnt be that black and white (for example jane/kenny good/bad) ... i think they both had good and bad parts like jane as a lone wolf new to a group of unusefull members (besides clem and kenny and maybe luke) helped them to survive (escaping, showing clem tricks, stealing meds etc.) but then left to be save/fucked instead of watching walkers/left a child only protected by plot amor in a car etc. ... kenny on the other hand was an overprotecting vulcano waiting to explode if someone is not on his side since season 1 (and i dont mean the arvo thing ... after the attack i was wondering why people side with arvo and thought of a set up by bonnie and/or mike) but with a good heart and he had shown serveral times that he is willing to sacrifice himself for the people he protects ... that was also the reason i choose to stay on his side in season 2 because as thinking as a character (clem) a know him more then the cabin group/jane and i know that he would protect me and wouldnt hurt me ... but the fight between him and jane was so forced (by jane) that i was wondering about the bad writing at this point and was searching for a solution with out dead kenny/jane ... but there wasnt anyone (thanks to TT) so i ended up with kenny in wellington (and plot amor AJ) and kenny left me there because thats what i thought would be matching to his character ... and after that i think kenny kills himself to be together with his wives (hopefully katja and sarita a coming along together) and son
so long story short ... i dont like this kenny-is-jesus-cult (because he has some big problems with aggression and talking instead of fighting and as another character than clem i would made different decissions ... but i was really hoping that after some time jane and kenny will find a way to come along to keep clem and aj save together) or the jane-is-a-free-spirit-pathos (because she was nearly always thinking of herself first and how people could be useful to her (maybe a trauma after the lost of her sister) ... but she was also bad written in some points (the forced fight with kenny at this time for like no reason than the plot and the HANGING in season 3 that was really not matching with the jane i saw)
I'm inclined to disagree with what you are saying about The Final Season. Clementine is like thirteen years old who was only in first grade when the zombie apocalypse happened. I see no way of Clem being a detective and deducing any clues about the ranch or people there. Also the flashbacks are part of why everyone hated A New Frontier because the flashbacks added nothing to the story and didn't really effect the outcome of the game just who Clem was going to help. Another thing is I believe that all the characters in TellTale's game are not black or white but somewhere in he gray section which is how the characters remain realistic. I always liked Kenny more than Jane because Kenny is similar to Rick in terms of doing the hard things to protect the group. Jane is just annoying to me she is always trying to manipulate Clem into leaving Kenny because she is scared of Kenny just as the rest of the group is. Season 2 was not as amazing as Season 1 but still good except for the ending not really influencing The New Frontier.
Hello Community,
iam new to this forum and normally i dont join in forum discussions and just reading them but i like the emotions in thi… mores forum so i decided to join in.
to the topic:
i hope that the ranch is left and the last season will be kind of detective-game with lots of clem flashbacks/thinkings (shown how she learned surviving by teachings form christa, lee, kenny/jane etc.) and meeting some people (maybe old friends/enemies from past seasons, too) for hints to finally finding aj (and then bittersweet ending like killing christa to have aj for her own or a new community for clem but aj got bitten and clem has to mercy him)
to the discussion:
i like that even since years have past people get emotional about their charakters (so TT cant be that bad in season 2 ... season 3 is another thing) ... but it shouldnt be that black and white (for example jane/kenny good/bad) ... i think they both had good and bad parts like jane as … [view original content]
Comments
Who cares about what is "just following society's values"? I'd personally do that myself because it's common fuckin sense and decency!
Wellington ending was a fitting end to his arc. Bringing him back would take meaning away from the sacrifice he made while also infuriating the players who actually stayed with him.
This.
Ah haa, you mean the same episode where Kenny is wallowing alone over Sarita's death not wanting to bothered with anyone or go anywhere? Eh bit of a reach
Don't think pills ever crossed his mind in that state.
And this, this, just no to all of this. Sarah would definitely disagree with that. Jane was absolutely positive Sarah would die in that trailer and claiming "some people you just can help" if it wasn't for Clementine's conscience she'd be exactly like Jane which is a scary thought. Hell, Luke's another one I don't necessarily care for, at least he had some faith in saving Sarah.
WAT?! Telling a child someone killed someone so you'd be okay with that person getting killed is not okay!!!
I'd say it's because she tries to pull off the "good-guy" role in most scenarios when she should just stay a douche.
OMG 10 gold stars
Uh, no. You have me confused with someone else. I actually kinda like the minecraft game, for it's characters and humor. What I don't like about it is that they took no liberties with the art design. A "Realistic" minecraft would have been cool.
you're one to talk
because she weighs about as much as a sack of flower and jane could have actually thrown her onto the next roof in that scenario
Hahah thank you!
I think it was a false point because she did provoke it she forced it to become true by doing what she did.
You might be right about the fight they might have gone separate ways. In the end Jane also left Clementine by her self. I never saw that ending so I can't say much about it.
Better be AJ. Otherwise I might not even get Episode 1.
Even though my Kenny is probably alive and is one of my favourites, I do not think it would be good for the story to have him at the ranch. As a player who stayed at Wellington, I do want to see Kenny again but his appearance has to be performed in a high consistency level. Lilly is the living representation of a choice we made long ago, I can not help but to see her as the best possible "villain" for the Season. I can easily picture an insanely disturbed Lilly living on her own or with a small group, not at the ranch though. Bonnie should be at the ranch (let Arvo and Mike die off-screen). Tavia and/or Shel (with Becca meeting her end off-screen, so Shel could see Becca in A.J.) could also be there. Nate, Vincent and/or Wyatt could be in Lilly's group (no need to Russell and Eddie to appear in this Season). Someone who I think should really be at the ranch is Christa, seeing in A.J. the child she could not have, however this is a schizophrenic Christa, who sometimes is lucid and sometimes is not.
all of the characters that telltale abandoned. lilly, christa, molly, mike, arvo, shel, becca, vince, wyatt, eddie, russell, bonnie, tavia, nate. they;re all just gonna be chilling at the ranch. having a GRAND TIME. lotta fun, no walkers, no ones dead. everyones happy : )
Jane's point was that Kenny was unstable and going to put them in danger. I'd say she proved that point. What if something had happened to AJ similar to what happened to Sarita? Clem tries her best, but can't save AJ. When that those events surrounding Sarita's death happens, Clem has to walk on eggshells to not get verbally abused by Kenny. Was Sarita's death caused by Clem? No. It takes a while for Kenny to calm down and eventually see reason. What if the next time something unfortunate happens? I personally don't want to be around a verbally abusive person, one who under the wrong circumstances becomes physically abusive. You don't like that someone manipulates you. Fine. I guess that's fair. We each have our reasons to dislike the person we do.
Yeah, but he also didn't encounter them. If your defense is, he was too depressed to think clearly just then, that's hardly a defense. My point was, Kenny would take from others to help his group without thinking or much caring about the consequences for other people. EG - the goods in the car, and that girl who was being attacked by zombies.
What part are you disagreeing with here? That taking the meds (which were intended to be given to Rebecca) wasn't thinking about someone else or what? Why bring Sarah into this? I thought the criticism here was that Jane was a bitch for threatening and stealing Arvo's meds. Was stealing the meds, and the method used to do so, justified? Was stealing the meds for sick pregnant woman enough to justify stealing the meds?
Then there's the whole question of whether Jane's actions caused the Russians to attack the Cabin group. I think a lot of people would have stolen the meds, including Kenny. Season One Clem might not have, dependent on what lesson Lee did or didn't teach her; and Lee depending on how you chose to act. So getting mad at Jane for "causing" the attack on the Cabin group feels wrong to me.
Now, as far a Jane and Sarah: I think Jane's point was that Sarah, even if she survived the trailer park, would be a liability because you would never know when she's going to have a melt down. I mean, Luke tried for HOURS to save her. Who has that kind of time? Not me, which is why I left her. Of course, TT made that a moot point by killing her almost right away. That sucked.
Again, I don't think Jane was saying that they should kill Kenny, but that they should leave. They should separate from Kenny. Not the same. They should have gone along with Bonnie, Mike and Arvo.
Also. How do Kenny fans explain/justify Kenny beating the shit out of Arvo?
EVERY NIGHT IS A HOT DISH NIGHT!
(i knew i'd use this god forsaken gif one day)
Okay Shampa you wanna go there? Fine! The woman being pursued by walkers was completely surrounded, not to mention attracting them. There was absolutely no rational way to save her without getting injured or dying in the process. Who's to say she wasn't bitten in the process? Call me cold-hearted but abandoning the mission to gather supplies for the group to save a woman who's dead already is suicide. Yes it was a terrible sight, but Kenny saw an opportunity to compromise and sacrifice for the group. There's even a choice to put her out of her misery. Again call me cold-hearted but I see no other options in that scenario.
Who the hell does Jane think she is? The IRS? Even if it is for someone in desperate need of the medication, it gave her no right to threaten Arvo for it in the first place. Not to mention his own sister being "sick" why does he have to choose to give up what belongs to him? What gave her the right to put him in that predicament?
...Whoosh.
Everyone is capable of a melt down Shampa, everyone. Especially in their current environment it's inevitable. It's just a matter of looking at the bigger picture which is ultimately survival. And yes, Luke did attempt to save Sarah for hours which goes to show how much of a conscience he has when it comes to people. Me personally, I chose to stay and convince Sarah to get her shit together and stay alive. I wouldn't just let her sit and die without a fight. Which doesn't apply to Jane at all. If it was Jane & Lee instead of Kenny deciding that woman's fate, we both know it would've went down the same way. No debate.
And this is the base of what pisses me off the most. I mean, who in the hell are you to tell me to abandoned this guy I've traveled with for months and just reunited with because he's had a few temper tantrums?! It's ridiculous. Because you don't like him and his way of doing things, desert him? Fuuuck off. And please do not get me started on those sheep Bonnie and Mike.
Because he cares for Clem & AJ and he put their lives in danger BECAUSE JANE WANTED THE GODDAMN PAINKILLERS.
Kenny fan here, allow me to present my point of view on why I believe Kenny was justified in beating the shit out of Arvo:
Arvo is a motherfucking piece of shit trash cowardly backstabbing kid-shooting stupid bastard who deserved to have his skull beaten out of his fucking ass. Luke died because of this cunt. Clementine almost died because of this cunt. AJ and everyone else almost died because of this crippled cunt. Now I know it's really Jane who's to blame here but let's cut her some slack, it was Arvo who decided to come back and fuck us thus deserving a slow painful death at the hands of Kenny.
Hope some insight has been provided.
Lilly and/or Christa make the most sense to me. But it seems like it would be a lot more of an 'or' than an 'and'
Yup. she was going to die. However, you could save her from the experience of being eaten alive or use it for your own safety. The kinder thing to do in that situation would have been to shoot the woman. Kenny advocates the selfish route.
What?!? No, we do not know that Lee would have behaved similarly to how Kenny behaves. That's why there could be so much conflict between Lee and Kenny. Lee was intelligent and reasonable. Lee wouldn't have done the stupid, irrational sort of shit that Kenny did. The Lee who shot and killed a man before the start of episode one regretted what he did and worked hard to be a better man. Kenny got worse the seasons progressed.
Yes, but Sarah was particularly prone to them. Even when she was in a relatively safe environment (in the Green house on the roof) where all she had to do was snip some dead leaves off a plant she was too paralyzed with fear to do anything. I get that Carver was a douche and he would have punished her for not doing a good job, but she still should have tried. Sarah didn't even try. At some point, you have to get mentally adjusted to the fact that the world is no longer safe and you have to act. If that thought causes you to have a panic attacks so that you can't act, and everyone has to constantly try to keep you safe, well...
What would Sarah have contributed to that discussion? That Jane cares for no one but herself? Isn't Jane looking out for Rebecca contradicting that? I implied earlier that Jane normally does the selfish thing, including not wanting to risk her life protecting someone like Sarah. By the way, Kenny is selfish, too. So Jane taking the meds to try to Rebecca was an exception. Her actions, threatening Arvo, were not great, but her intentions were. Kenny thought that Arvo was trying to trick them and was impatient that they weren't at the house. And then he got mad because the house was in process of construction. Did Arvo deliberately take them the way he did because he hoped to kill them? I didn't get that impression. Arvo was a) just trying to get meds to his sister and b) part of a group that was angry at the Cabin group and at Arvo for losing the meds. Arvo had a right to try to protect himself from his group's wrath and did not deserve to be beaten up by Kenny, or anyone else for that matter.
The fact that you think Kenny was justified in beating up Arvo, but that Jane was a monster for wanting to take medication that could potentially save Rebecca (and put Arvo in a terrible situation of having to give up meds that could save his sister's life) tells me your priorities are not quite right. Which is worse? Being beaten up or having meds stolen from you? Plus, I'm pretty sure Kenny would have also stolen the meds. Can you at least admit that? If Kenny (in his normal state and not too depressed to think because of Sarita's death - which is a lame defense of his character) had had a chance to get meds for Rebecca (who was pregnant and a part of his group) then he would have done it.
Were you upset with Arvo because his group attacked the Cabin group? Or because the route Arvo took them on turned out to be risky for all of them? Should Kenny get any of the blame for insisting that Arvo take them to that house? And you think that justifies Kenny, a grown ass adult, beating up a kid?
A few temper tantrums? The man became both physically and verbally abusive. He doesn't think clearly, is rash and hot-headed. Even Sarita wonders whether Kenny is safe to be around, and Clem can reassure her that he is a good guy. Kenny has changed, and not for the better. I think he was a danger to Clem and I didn't want to be around him. Jane was trying to convince Clementine to do what was in her best interest. You'd do that sort of thing for people who are in abusive relationships. Mike and Bonnie had the right idea - get far away from Kenny.
Nope, you did not. Luke died because Kenny insisted that Arvo take them to the house because it had supplies. Unless Arvo knew the layer of ice was too thin to cross he did not lead Luke to his death. Everyone else almost dying because they were walking over ice was not Arvo's fault either. Arvo walked over that same ice, too.
During the stand off, what did the Russians want? If the cabin group had given them what they wanted, would they have killed them?
Plus, as I've said elsewhere, Kenny would have stolen the meds too if he thought that it could save a pregnant woman and a baby.
Um, actually, Arvo offered the group shelter and supplies at the Unfinished House as a peace offering and Kenny was the only one opposed to the idea initially.
After they actually did reach the house, it was actually Arvo who pointed out that they can cross the Frozen Lake to get there faster if they don't wanna waste time going around and Kenny volunteered him to go first since he was so confident about it. It was the walkers showing up that unnerved everyone and Luke having most of his weight balanced on one leg was likely what caused him to crack the ice, as Arvo eventually ended up in a similar position due to having to essentially hop on one leg.
Eh, that's a little hard to say with any certainty, tbh.
Translations reveal that the whole "Rob Clementine's entire group" thing was Buricko's idea--apparently decided on the spot--and Arvo questioning what exactly does he want to take from them has Buricko respond with something to the effect of "Shit, I don't know--just whatever they have". It is worth noting Vitali appparently does have a line where he mentions Ammunition, though.
Buricko also explicitly refuses to allow Arvo and Clementine to make any compromise/deal(apparently changing his instructions to "take everything" if they try) and then he outright refuses to back down when things get tense even after Arvo points out the baby.
Given that I get the feeling he's the leader of the group, killing them would ultimately be up to him and who's to say he wouldn't on a sudden whim, especially given his parallel to Jane and (if the models were kept consistent) Kenny.
Oh yeah, he definitely would.
You're right. I re-watched that scene where the Russians ambush the Cabin group. I do remember Kenny being an asshole to Arvo during that whole walk and I think I attributed wanting to get the supplies to Kenny, which is wrong. Arvo offered to share the supplies in order to win them over and everyone else wanted to eat. Kenny didn't trust Arvo is I think why Kenny didn't want to go along with Arvo's plan. I don't think Arvo knowingly led the group over the ice in hopes of them falling through the ice and dying. I also don't think Arvo deserved to be beaten.
Also, thanks for backing me up on the whole "would Kenny have stolen meds if that meant helping Rebecca" bit.
No, Luke died because he couldn't get over a frozen lake because of his shot leg which happened during a shootout that Arvo instigated. He fucking ambushed us. It's his fault.
Yup, that's what I did. And "selfish"?! I don't think by Kenny not wanting to kill her made him selfish. Softer would be more reasonable. He'd seen it was no possible way they'd be able to save the woman without getting themselves killed in the process. But killing her wouldn't of been his way of handling it either. Jane no doubt would've pulled the trigger.
But, we do know how Jane behaves soo... bleh.
I..I can't argue.
But it was completely justified in Kenny's defense! Remember: He didn't just happen to stumble upon Arvo and his group, THEY WERE AMBUSHED! Clem & AJ could have been killed! And for what? A failed attempt to get supplies?! In all reality, if I happen to get put in that type of situation, I'd be the last person to treat Arvo with any amount of respect. Especially if the first time I meet him is in a shootout with his group! Kickstarted by your beloved Jane.
Absolutely not. It was not his fault, but Jane's for taking matters into her own hands putting lives in danger then ditching them. She did return, but was everything that happened even necessary? And yes. Look at it like this, a group of survivors who seem to be doing very well for themselves tries to kill you and your group for reasons you don't know but somehow you prevail against them. With one hostage-survivor who might have a safe house or shelter that can be safe for your group, yeah you might wanna find that out any way you can. And Arvo was a kid? Seemed to be in his early 20s. Worst case 18.
And Jane's such a saint. Jane's the type of person that'll attack when you're down (manipulative). And her main problem is she never got her way, and no one listened to her especially Kenny. So he became a huge problem. Look Shampa, when you come across a group (Cabin Group) and you see they're weak and vulnerable, anyone like Jane'll wanna take advantage. But if someone in that group happens to see past your bullshit and true agenda (Kenny) they're gonna be an issue to your survival. So what do you do? You use mind games to distract people (Clem) from your main intentions and make up horrible stories (Killing AJ) so anything that person says isn't relevant anymore and they're completely delusional and off the rail. End of story.
Lilly should be at the ranch. She was one of the best characters in the series and is a character that can bring conflict, sympathy and debate, which is definitely something that's needed in the game for it's end.
But if Telltale just bring her back to turn her into some unhinged dastardly villain, something a lot of people seem to want, I'll be very disappointed. Lilly was not a bad person, she was a flawed and broken woman who was pushed to her emotional limits mid-way through season 1 after trauma. Turning her into a baddie is just a disservice to what was a truly complex character. I'd much prefer a redemption arc.
Bless this post.
Same.
Kinda why that recent idea about her and Arvo as an anti-hero duo sounds good/fitting.
So you really believe that Kenny would not have taken the meds from Arvo if he believed that those meds could save Rebecca's life? I know he cares about Duck, oh wait no... AJ... (because he did confuse the two once) but maybe he didn't care about Rebecca. Would he have stolen meds for Rebecca?
You have got to rewatch that scene. The choice wasn't between saving her life (and risking theirs) or letting her die. The choice was between letting the poor woman get eaten alive so that a distraction made things safer for you or killing her so that she suffered a little less. Kenny argues that they do the former, which was selfish. Watch this:
And that guy would not have stolen meds. Yeah. Right!
Steal like Jane? No. Negotiate? Perhaps.
Goddamnit Shampa you went back the x-files
With everything that went on from S1 to that very moment, I doubt Kenny'll have the energy to wanna put up another fight. And yes I do think he genuinely did care for Rebecca, so he would've found a way to get at least some medicine for her without threatening Arvo and causing a shitstorm.
Ha! That's funny. Kenny negotiating.... Kenny had the energy to beat the crap out of Arvo, but didn't have the crap to "put up another fight"...
SHAMPA HE WAS TRIGGERED!! and no joke, I really don't believe Kenny would've took the route Jane took with Arvo. Honestly. You cannot convince me.
Was this intentional?
Is this a reference to something?
No, it was a weird poorly written sentence. The second "crap" should have read energy. Nice catch.
Is this a reference to something?
As for that, you'd have to ask PapaHutDomino. I'm not entirely sure what point he was trying to make there.
Eh, personally, I think Lilly's a bit too good to be put in a duo with Arvo. She fucked up, sure, but it's no way near comparable to Arvo's attempt at channelling his inner Anakin Skywalker by trying to straight up kill Clementine, an 11 year old kid.
Well, the idea came about due to their similar setups in general:
It is worth noting that this was mainly conceptualized for A New Frontier, though.
Great, now I'm reminded of that one image someone made with Gabe
Which I can't friggin find, btw
I think that maybe some of the exiles from New Richmond will be at The Ranch because where will all the people who were kicked out go? The answer is simple to The Ranch and perhaps Dr. Lingard was still able to care for some of the patients there until things got too complicated. David and Dr. Lingard probably became friends travelling on the road to The Ranch and New Richmond. Clementine probably doesn't know the location because when she was kicked out she wasn't at New Richmond she was on the road so perhaps they just had to abandon her somewhere far from the campsite. It' just a small theory I came up with but still plausible.
Oh my goodness, I forgot that was supposed to be a thing originally.
That's a very good point, GWW.
Hello Community,
iam new to this forum and normally i dont join in forum discussions and just reading them but i like the emotions in this forum so i decided to join in.
to the topic:
i hope that the ranch is left and the last season will be kind of detective-game with lots of clem flashbacks/thinkings (shown how she learned surviving by teachings form christa, lee, kenny/jane etc.) and meeting some people (maybe old friends/enemies from past seasons, too) for hints to finally finding aj (and then bittersweet ending like killing christa to have aj for her own or a new community for clem but aj got bitten and clem has to mercy him)
to the discussion:
i like that even since years have past people get emotional about their charakters (so TT cant be that bad in season 2 ... season 3 is another thing) ... but it shouldnt be that black and white (for example jane/kenny good/bad) ... i think they both had good and bad parts like jane as a lone wolf new to a group of unusefull members (besides clem and kenny and maybe luke) helped them to survive (escaping, showing clem tricks, stealing meds etc.) but then left to be save/fucked instead of watching walkers/left a child only protected by plot amor in a car etc. ... kenny on the other hand was an overprotecting vulcano waiting to explode if someone is not on his side since season 1 (and i dont mean the arvo thing ... after the attack i was wondering why people side with arvo and thought of a set up by bonnie and/or mike) but with a good heart and he had shown serveral times that he is willing to sacrifice himself for the people he protects ... that was also the reason i choose to stay on his side in season 2 because as thinking as a character (clem) a know him more then the cabin group/jane and i know that he would protect me and wouldnt hurt me ... but the fight between him and jane was so forced (by jane) that i was wondering about the bad writing at this point and was searching for a solution with out dead kenny/jane ... but there wasnt anyone (thanks to TT) so i ended up with kenny in wellington (and plot amor AJ) and kenny left me there because thats what i thought would be matching to his character ... and after that i think kenny kills himself to be together with his wives (hopefully katja and sarita a coming along together) and son
so long story short ... i dont like this kenny-is-jesus-cult (because he has some big problems with aggression and talking instead of fighting and as another character than clem i would made different decissions ... but i was really hoping that after some time jane and kenny will find a way to come along to keep clem and aj save together) or the jane-is-a-free-spirit-pathos (because she was nearly always thinking of herself first and how people could be useful to her (maybe a trauma after the lost of her sister) ... but she was also bad written in some points (the forced fight with kenny at this time for like no reason than the plot and the HANGING in season 3 that was really not matching with the jane i saw)
Thanks! I'm just one of TellTale's fans who pays attention to all the little details in their games.
I'm inclined to disagree with what you are saying about The Final Season. Clementine is like thirteen years old who was only in first grade when the zombie apocalypse happened. I see no way of Clem being a detective and deducing any clues about the ranch or people there. Also the flashbacks are part of why everyone hated A New Frontier because the flashbacks added nothing to the story and didn't really effect the outcome of the game just who Clem was going to help. Another thing is I believe that all the characters in TellTale's game are not black or white but somewhere in he gray section which is how the characters remain realistic. I always liked Kenny more than Jane because Kenny is similar to Rick in terms of doing the hard things to protect the group. Jane is just annoying to me she is always trying to manipulate Clem into leaving Kenny because she is scared of Kenny just as the rest of the group is. Season 2 was not as amazing as Season 1 but still good except for the ending not really influencing The New Frontier.